Coffee House

Did David Cameron just promise Scots devo max?

14 March 2014

14 March 2014

Scotland will get more powers – including control over taxes – if Scots vote No in September. That was the message David Cameron took to the Scottish Conservative Party at its annual conference in Edinburgh today.

The Prime Minister has come under fire from the Scottish Nationalists who have claimed that the only way Scots can guarantee more powers is to vote Yes.

In a clear attempt to undermine this argument, the Prime Minister went further than he has ever done before by promising to devolve more power from Westminster to Holyrood if Scots vote No. He said:

‘The Nationalists want people to believe that this is the end of the line for devolution: do or die, separate or just stick with the status quo. This is wrong.

‘Let me be absolutely clear: a vote for No is not a vote for “no change”. We are committed to making devolution work better still, not because we want to give Alex Salmond a consolation prize if Scotland votes No but because it’s the right thing to do.

‘Giving the Scottish Parliament greater responsibility for raising more of the money it spends, that’s what [Scottish party leader] Ruth Davidson believes and I believe it too.’

Mr Cameron’s remarks were being seen as a clear hint that the next Conservative General Election manifesto will contain a commitment to devolve a large chunk of income tax to Scotland – plus other taxes, probably including air passenger duty but not corporation tax.

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The Prime Minister has got close to this before but this was the first time he has been so definitive about backing a ‘devo plus’ or a ‘devo max’ plan for Scotland.

It puts the Conservatives alongside the Liberal Democrats and, probably, the Labour Party too, in advocating a range of new powers for Holyrood. The parties still don’t want to agree publicly with each other but, whether they admit it or not, there is a growing consensus between the main unionist parties on this issue.

Cameron’s speech was almost entirely about the referendum, a trend that will be repeated by all the main speakers at this conference. And there were some good lines in it. The Prime Minister declared:

‘When you look around the world, so often, tragically, neighbourliness has been list and replaced by wars and feuds. We don’t do that. We don’t slam the doors and turn compatriots into foreigners. We work together and we are envied and rightly envied for that.

‘This is a family of nations, argumentative at times, competitive at times, but a family nonetheless.’

Cameron did, however, make one remark which could be considered risky.

Talking about the feeling of being together as Great Britain, the Prime Minister said: ‘It’s not about subjection or colonialism or dry pragmatism, it’s about being part of a bigger team.’

It may have been deliberate to tackle head-on those edges of Scottish Nationalism which believe Scotland is treated like an English colony, but if anything is guaranteed to wind the cyber Nats up to a frenzy it is an Old Etonian, Conservative Prime Minister talking about Scotland and colonialism.

No wonder the Prime Minister was planning to head out of Edinburgh as soon as possible this afternoon.


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Show comments
  • Alex

    ‘The Nationalists want people to believe that this is the
    end of the line for devolution: do or die, separate or just stick with
    the status quo. This is wrong.”

    This is one startling piece of hypocrisy from a man who was insisting upon removing Devo-Max from the ballot less than a year ago.

  • mitchyboy

    Of course the establishment is incandesant about social media because they can’t control it , unlike the media and the disgraceful BBC.
    BBCscotlandshire.co.uk
    newsnetscotland.co.uk
    wingsoverscotland.co.uk
    national collective
    bellacaledonia

  • jwain

    And in the real world, see filleting here –

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-new-world-record-for-stupid/

  • Project Hope Over Fear

    Don’t know who the writer of this piece was listening to but all I heard was a used car salesman trying to sell me the old broken down pile of rust that sits at the back of the car lot.

  • allymax bruce

    Oh dear, Hamish; you got caught trying to con the electorate of Scotland.

  • malcolmG

    why would anyone subscribe to this journal after having read the above delusional drivel. The writer has to be a sandwich short of a picnic if you listen to what Cameron ACTUALLY said.

    • Denis_Cooper

      But what was it that Cameron ACTUALLY said?

    • JPJ2

      Hamish is so delusional that he even appeared on the Scottish Politics programme at the weekend prepared to suggest that UKIP could win 2 of the 6 Scotland seats in the Euro elections? Stark, staring, BONKERS!!!!

  • asalord

    “Did David Cameron just promise Scots devo max?”

    Who cares. Nobody in Scotland believes him anyway.

  • chrisdarroch .

    Yup. Couldn’t agree more…..go here for proper journalism:

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-new-world-record-for-stupid/#more-51843

    • Michele Keighley

      Oh we I hope so … oh how I really, really, really hope that you find the guts to strike out on your own – completely cut off from the south in every, single way. A foreign country in a small island – it’s what you deserve, it really is.

  • mitchyboy

    ” A new world record for stupid” on wingsoverscotland. com ( if can get pass censorship and read the sort of guff a Spectator, so called journalist, gets paid to write.

  • mitchyboy

    This nonsense pass for journalism? Read: “A New World Record for Stupid” on wingsoverscotland.com website.

  • Ringan

    This is fantasy politics. Cameron’s characteristically vacuous speech during his fleeting visit to the Scottish Conservative conference contained no commitment to anything.

  • mitchyboy

    What an absolute load of gibberish. No Cameron is not going to offer “devo max” Control of everything (including oil revenues) Aye, and I am zipped up the back. Beginning to wonder if language is now devolved and has a different meaning down south. Suggest people go to wingsoverscotland.com website and read latest article which is a critique of this stupid stupid article. It is called “a new world record for stupid.”

  • Tom Tom

    What Scotland gets The North wants too !

    • BarkingAtTreehuggers

      How about getting a decent news outlet first?
      The decline in local publishing, in particular in Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds, is a shocking tragedy.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …not enough socialist nuttery on tap for you, lad?

        • BarkingAtTreehuggers

          …why not sell your story to the Northerners so we can all have a good laugh.

          Rule #4: when you fill the markets with tripe (like you centralist ineptocrat nutters do), people will begin to switch off and no longer care about your ‘visionary’ offerings.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …no selling allowed in your socialist paradise, lad. You socialist nutters own it all, and you make it all compulsory.

  • BarkingAtTreehuggers

    It is time to expand our earlier equation. This is the end.

    a YES vote = the end
    a NO vote + constitutional changes + tax raising powers = the end
    ergo,
    YES vote = NO vote + constitutional changes + tax raising powers.

    Why bother vote? The decision on what the future holds has already been taken – is this what we believe democracy was?

    • Ringan

      a Yes vote = the beginning.

  • JPJ2

    See the 1979 article at Wings over Scotland where Thatcher promised Scotland devolution if we voted NO.
    Thatcher Lied, Cameron Lies, Unionist Leaders ALWAYS LIE!!

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Whereas Salmond is a paragon of honesty. Hilarious. Clearly no sense of irony in your world.

      • JPJ2

        Nicholas
        Try not to be an idiot. Thatcher promised devolution to Scotland. Once elected she was utterly steadfast in her opposition to it. THAT IS BLATANT DISHONESTY.
        Salmond promised Scotland a referendum on independence and independence itself if the Scots vote for it. THAT IS IRREFUTABLE HONESTY.

  • Bhoy Green

    I actually find it rather amusing, that the London media are so out of touch , no one cares two hoots , what Cameron says here in Scotland . The London media are also going to get the biggest shock of your lives . Its going to be a Yes vote . the SNP have the biggest and most efficient electoral machine of any party in UK politics .

  • JPJ2

    Is Hamish still sane? Was he ever sane? Certainly the nonsense he wrote at the Caledonian Mercury effectively destroyed its political credibility single-handed.

    • Ringan

      …a sad case of Mercury poisoning.

      • chrisdarroch .

        Nice one Ringan

  • Dan Watt

    Q: Did David Cameron just promise Scots devo max?

    TL,DR;

    No, no he did not. He wasn’t specific about anything, his entire speech was painstakingly engineered as to be the exact opposite of specific or promising anything.

    Typing that, instead of this “journalism” would have saved you hours of work today, Mr MacDonell.

  • tartanarse

    Truly terrible but not surprising from Mcdonnel. Could well have been in the Scotsman.

    Just as well the Spectator is entirely irrelevant in the independence debate.

  • kininvie

    Good evening all. I’m not going to engage with the argument here, but I would like to draw your attention to how Hamish’s lazy journalism can be demolished by a bit of rhetoric in the best scathing tradition of Swift. Aspiring columnists may care to note:
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-new-world-record-for-stupid/

    • Dan Watt

      We agree.

  • OskarMatzerath

    If you have to ask then no, he didn’t.

  • Jeanne Tomlin

    No, actually, Mr. Macdonnell, he didn’t. In fact, he didn’t even come close.

    In point of fact, he promised exactly nothing, not a single power was specifically mentioned in this speech. It was pure political froth as is this article of yours.

    • HookesLaw

      I do not see how he could mention a single power because it would have to be voted through by parliament first. He does not command a majority in parliament. Nobody does.
      He talked about raisng more of the money locally that the Scottish parliament spends. And beyond that he can say nothing because the details would have to ne agreed with … the scottish parliament.

      Stop being a pathetic whinger.

      • Jeanne Tomlin

        Anything Scots say is labeled as ‘whingeing’. Get over yourself.

        Of course, he could make proposals and say what would be put on the party manifesto–if anything of any significance were going to be. And you are right that it would have to be voted through parliament, which isn’t going to happen anyway whether he proposes something or not.

        There is one way and only one way to achieve ‘devo max’ and that is for Scotland to become independent.

        • chrisdarroch .

          Hear Hear !

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          I quite agree that the exUK should be fully independent. So why is Salmond so desperate to enter into a currency union with the UK? Hardly independence is it?

          • JPJ2

            The French and Germans (and many others) are in a currency union.
            Try telling them they are not independent :-)

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              Why does Salmond want a currency union with the UK and not with Europe then? He described Sterling as a millstone around Scotland’s neck so why does he want a currency union with the UK? Try answering that question.

              • Jeanne Tomlin

                It is amazing how people like you will drag up a comment Mr. Salmond made more than fifteen years ago but can’t seem to remember what he said in the last few months. Funny, isn’t it.

                I don’t know the circumstances of that comment, and frankly, if I did it would still be irrelevant. You can oppose a currency union and pretend that somehow that would keep Scotland from being independent although it doesn’t the many other nations that have currency unions. But it is also ‘cutting off your nose to spite your face’ because a currency union would also ease the transition for England.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Utterly ludicrous. How does guaranteeing the newly issued public debt of a foreign country without limitation as to term and amount “ease the transition” for the UK? It would simply give us an unlimited and uncontrollable contingent liability. The example of the US is especially ridiculous and ignorant. Other countries may use the dollar but they do not enjoy the formal support of the US Treasury underwriting any debt they may issue. This is why the Chancellor of the exchequer and his Labour and Lib Dem counterparts have emphatically precluded such an arrangement. It is not a bluff or bluster but an attempt to enlighten deluded people such as yourself. The only reason Salmond wants a currency union with a country that he hates to his very core is because the euro option is not open to him and borrowing money as a country with no individual credit record would be ruinously expensive. By all means use the pound but the UK will ‘transition’ quite happily without a currency union with a hostile foreign country thank you very much.

  • disqus_EjgKZ1VUFS

    Did you even listen to what he said. He didn’t mention devo max as of course no one knows what devo max is . He said Scotland “could” have more powers but from him thats hardly a promise. Its not working this time,every time he comes to this country the YES votes go up.
    What would help though would if the media even tried to tell the truth.

    • Wessex Man

      All that we English can hope for is Cameron being a frequent visitor to our Northern friends then! Come to think of it he wouldn’t do so much damage to England if he stayed there!

      • chrisdarroch .

        Yes. Once we rid ourselves of this dismal Establishment it will be your turn. Perhaps Wales might be next, but you know……..

    • Doggie Roussel

      Birdbrain…. devo-max is doing however much it takes to appease those wretched scrounging whingers from north of the border to vote No to Scottish independence in order to ramp up all the already unbalanced advantages they grab off the English electorate whilst emitting the maxi-decibel screeches and howls of oppression and injustice in order to cream more benefits and payouts from the English members of, hopefully, soon-to-be-defunct septic Union.

      • orkers

        Hear Hear, but not for the reasons you put forward.

      • HookesLaw

        Well – no in fact. It means making them spend more of their own money if they want to see it wasted by a Scottish parliament.

      • scotcanadien

        I can’t wait to be rid of the M1nger millstone round our necks. Sitting
        there, pretentious puffed up pr1cks, like fat bloodsuckers sucking all the wealth out of Scotland and always whinging, whining, and moaning. What a shower of deadbeats. England, Stinkland a land of s(t)ink estates, drug addicts, rioters, drunks, football hooligans, racists, paedophiles and poufs. And Londonistan, overloaded with foreign and home grown banksters, shysters and other assorted criminals, all led by Fat Dumb Dave the master shambler and his thick dumber and fatter assistant Osbourne who is a typical English cheapskate; rolling in money yet travels 1st class on a 2nd class ticket (when he isn’t caught) and claims 1st class expenses.
        What a disorganised madhouse is England? A third rate country with
        4th rate leaders … and they gained 1st class honours at Oxford! F.ck
        me! They must be giving them out now for ATTENDANCE.

        • Doggie Roussel

          Have you ever visited the Gorbals in Glasgow ?

        • Doggie Roussel

          You, on the other hand, probably obtained a City & Guilds award from a poly in Stranraer…

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …an excellent rant. Well done, lad.

  • Colonel Mustard

    What will you promise the English Mr Blancmange?

    • Lady Magdalene

      Nothing. He despises the English …. and with some reason. We continually vote for LibLabCon Government’s which betray us and he fully expects us to do it again in 2015.
      The Scots meanwhile, ditched Labour and voted SNP.
      If we ditched LibLabCon and voted UKIP Cameron would start taking some notice of the English.

      • JPJ2

        Vote English Democrat. They have now changed their policy from campaigning for an English Parliament to campaigning for independence for England. It is a rational post-imperial position.
        UKIP on the other hand still wish to be in control of Scotland in spite of the fact that that there are no UKIP MPs, MSPs, MEPs or even councillors in Scotland!

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …so basically, your position is that Scotland and England are to become “independent” provinces of the EUSSR?

          • BarkingAtTreehuggers

            Much to the despair of only the TeaParty/Putin support structure here – and your support is dwindling, for obvious reasons.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …so it’s socialist nuttery or bust, eh lad?

              • BarkingAtTreehuggers

                Ah, I note you are beginning to cut your losses, lad.
                Rule #1: change will only come… from the inside.
                Rule #2: being on the inside and then doing nothing is for girls.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …the only rule you socialist nutters have is to destroy freedom and liberty, laddie.

          • JPJ2

            Viceroy
            As a matter of fact the policy of the English Democrats is to withdraw from the EU

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Sounds good, if they really mean it.

  • kcband8

    Idiot Cameron has just helped Salmond back on to his feet and ensured Scorland will carry on being subsidised and able to vote on Englsh issues by offering up front more devo.
    What a clown.

    • Doggie Roussel

      kcband8, you have brilliantly surmised exactly what Cameron has offered to the Tub of Lard in Holyrood… it doesn’t matter now what the outcome of the referendum is next September… given that a NO vote is now quite obvious and inevitable, we, English will be subsidising the wretched Scotland still further.

      • Eoin O’Donnghaile

        You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about an entire nation Mr Roussel. What could have caused such blinkered bitterness? Did a fair Scots lassie knock you back one holiday? You need to brush up on 2 things; a) Your diplomatic skills (lacking by a long way) b) Your basic understanding of micro and macro economics. Scotland more than pays its way within the union; in fact we contribute more than we take out. If we’re that wretched and such a drain on the national coffers, then why on earth do Westminster want to keep us? Could it be the measly £1.5 trillion left in oil revenue after the trillions squandered? Or even the huge potential earnings from renewables that would see us catapulted (if independent) into the top ten richest nations. Your repetitive soft racism betrays your politics and your lack of intelligence. Please stick to the crayons in future

        • chrisdarroch .

          Nice reply Eoin.

        • malcolmG

          What an eloquent response to an absolute buffoon

          • scotcanadien

            Tremendous reply. But it will be over the buffoon’s head.

            • Doggie Roussel

              Certainly under the radar from that expatriate Jock, who like his ghastly, fellow emigres, Sean Connery and S’rAlex Ferguson will do anything they can to not have to live in their own country …

          • Doggie Roussel

            An Absolute Buffoon… now that’s a moniker I will really cherish… do you have a large following for your profound and esoteric ramblings ?

        • Doggie Roussel

          I have no wish to improve my non-existent diplomatic skills, especially in regard to the high-decibel whingers from north of the border.

          Perhaps you might elaborate on why the Scots do not have to pay prescription charges, say… or why their care and housing of the elderly is so much more subsidised than the English.

          Why do the English have to pay to be educated in Scottish universities whilst the Scots can make use of an education on the same terms as the English at universities in England.

          In the words of Cromwell, in the name of God, just go !

  • Doggie Roussel

    This is Cameron at his most ludicrous and appeasing to the wretched Scotch…

    He says they can set their own tax rates… which will obviously have to be subsidised by over 50 million English in order to keep this ludicrous Union in place…

    Meanwhile over 50 Scotch Labour & SNP MPs sit in Westminster, telling us English what to do and voting on issues completely unrelated to Scotland.

    Let’s get real about this … Camoron has to go…. pronto… meanwhile he’s out in Israel being browbeaten by Benjamin Nutternanyu into endorsing the persecutors of the Palestinians who have had their homelands hijacked…

    We need a reality check !

    • disqus_EjgKZ1VUFS

      That comment about the SNP MPs is completely untrue. The SNP do not vote on matters that apply only to England.And by the way Scotch is a whisky.

      • Doggie Roussel

        Listen, Richardhead, calling those parasites, from Scotland, Scotch was good enough for Dr Johnson and Shakespeare and so it’s good enough for me….

        Why don’t the ever-whingeing, oversubscribed Scots just get shot of the English yoke… it would appear to suit all parties… but no, they cannot let go of the English milch cow.

        All that ever comes out of Scotland is the clenched fist of grievance or the outstretched palm for another handout or subsidy.

        Go, in the name of God, just go !

        • Chris Morriss

          Excellent Mr Roussel. Cameron has really shot himself in the foot with this. The ever-gurning Salmond will be over the moon. Probably offering pints of Buckies all round.

        • MichtyMe

          A greater proportion of Scotland’s population is economically active so probably less dependent on “handouts”. Indeed between 1990 and 2013 the UK welfare spending grew by 96% and in Scotland just 79% but the naturally generous Scots have declined to whinge.

          • Doggie Roussel

            That’s possibly because all the deadbeats from Glasgow are south of the border claiming their benefits in England.

        • HookesLaw

          You are an ignorant cretinous tosspot.

          • Doggie Roussel

            Takes one to know one !

        • allymax bruce

          That’s your best comment ever, rascal; it should help convince the undecideds to vote Yes.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …no, it won’t, and you know it.

            • BarkingAtTreehuggers

              Cameron MUST transfer Scotland’s hard assets to Frankfurt. That is the deal which was done. Now he is doing everything in his power to deliver the goods.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …did he transfer what passed for your brains too, you barking moonbat?

                • BarkingAtTreehuggers

                  …which other colonies are left to be released?
                  Rule #3: spend spend spend without investment in the asset of the nation leads to fire sale after fire sale. It’s a matter of principle – nothing new to see here at all.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …nothing new to see about you socialist nutters. You seek to destroy freedom and liberty, same as ever.

                • Doggie Roussel

                  I rather like barking moonbats… whatever they are… there are certainly a proliferation on this blog…

          • Doggie Roussel

            Sadly not… the Scots’ brains are in their wallets….

      • Doggie Roussel

        There are over 50 left-wing MPs in Westminster who will lose their seats if Scotland votes YES for a referendum… or am I missing something ?

      • Michele Keighley

        They certainly do – a quick check of Hansard or They Work for You website will show you that. Whether they vote Yes or No is immaterial – they do vote! ,,, and a ‘No’ vote can be equally important to issue that relate to England. As for complaining about the word ‘Scotch’, well it was good enough for Sir Water Scott to describe himself – it’s only your willingness to take offence that has removed a perfectly good word from your dictionary.

    • HookesLaw

      No he suggested that the Scottish Parliament could raise some of the money it spends. Property taxes come to mind. It would at least make it more of a parliament instead of it having less responsibility than Norfolk County Council.
      This could indeed mean that if Edinburgh had an efficient tory govt then it might be able to lower the taxes it is allowed to levy.
      Any significant tax raising powers for Scotland should be accompanied by either English votes on English matters or fewer Scottish MPs.
      There less purely Scottish matters for Scots MPs to spend time on now anyway.

      There are a whole raft of issues to discuss on this topic, not least the ending of the Barnett formula. I would not want to see them being agreed by a labour govt though.

    • taranaich

      Constantly repeating Scots being “subsidised” by the English doesn’t make it any less untrue:

      http://archive.is/5Swry

  • orkers

    Cameron offers ‘responsibility’ with no further ‘powers’
    What he is offering is a cut to the block grant and the SG has the ‘responsibility’ for finding the missing cash by increasing the Scottish tax burden.
    Stick it where the sun don’t shine.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Yes, it’s absolutely ridiculous. Carry on down that road and eventually there would be no block grant at all and the Scottish government would have full responsibility for all the taxes levied in Scotland to fund its spending, and nobody in Scotland would want that. Oh, apart from those who want Scotland to become an independent state.

      • orkers

        The road you ‘re talking about leads to Independence.Especially the fiscal part where all the taxes from within Scottish borders accrues to a Scottish Treasury and doesn’t siphon off down to London and pocket money comes back in the block grant.
        That’s the deal the Yes’ campaign want and not what Cameron wants.
        If Scotland is such a subsidy junky why in god’s name do you want to hold onto us. Judging by your sarcasm it isn’t because you love us.

        • HookesLaw

          Cooper does not like anybody – its a typical trait of a kipper to hate anything he does not understand.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …I doubt many conservatives are much concerned with the jocks, and would just as well want a yes vote. It’s your fellow socialists who want a no.

    • Ronnie Strachan

      oh you want increased tax raising powers ONLY if you can keep the fat block grant from Westminster then – that same Westminster you folk denounce all the time?? you lot are pathetic

      • orkers

        Brush up on your comprehension skills.
        The block grant isn’t ‘fat’, we get less back than we put in. We don’t want ‘increased tax raising powers’ within the UK. We want ‘all tax raising powers’ for Scotland and that comes with Independence.

        Think before you type.

        • HookesLaw

          You can want what you want but you will get what the electorate vote for. You would be mad to want independence but you voted for a Nat govt and now you get a vote on it.

          • orkers

            When I say ‘we’ I mean those who intend to vote for independence. I trust and hope the Scottish electorate will vote ‘Yes’. I do so because if you talk as if it’s going to happen to the undecided then they will move towards voting that way. I believe in the power of positivity as does Alex Salmond.

            After the word ‘but’ in your second sentence you are of course correct.

            Mad to want self determination? Why isn’t there a World government then?

            • HookesLaw

              You have self determination… the same as I have. The same as we all have.

              Stop being a ludicrous hysteric. Alex Salmond is not Nelson Mandela.

              • orkers

                You have a strange idea of what self determination implies. It alludes to Scotland as a Nation making it’s own way in the world without the ‘broad shoulders’ of Westminster ‘protecting’ us. We are well able to look after ourselves.
                ‘Ludicrous hysteric’? How soon the mask of affability slips to reveal the slimy underside of the true British Nationalist.
                No doubt Nelson Mandela was told ‘You are no Gandhi’ ?
                History repeating itself with a nauseous belch..

                That’s hyperbole btw.

        • Ronnie Strachan

          we get back less than we put in?? not that again surely – it was sh*te when they said it before for years and even more so now when the Gers figures blew that notion out of the water

  • rod mac

    I am truly amazed that a renowned publication like the Spectator can be so ridiculously misleading in an article.
    I would suggest you once again listen to what Fearty Cameron ACTUALLY said.
    How from what he hinted at you can suggest that the Conservatives will offer Devo Max to Scotland post a No Vote ,is frankly bonkers.
    Is there no media in the entire UK with truth at its heart?
    Trying to lie to the Scottish people seems to have become the default position for the entire Media pack of London bubble.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Well, what was it that Cameron ACTUALLY said?

      All the accounts I have seen say that he offered the Scottish Parliament more power over taxes raised in Scotland, the only quibble being over his use of the word “can” when he should have said “will”:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26583782

      To be fair, this is Cameron so it is always wise to look at the exact wording and the fine print of anything he says, but there are still six months during which he and the leaders of the other Westminster parties can make it crystal clear what they would propose to do In the event of a “no” vote.

    • Wessex Man

      WHAT? WHAT? the f*** are you on about?
      ‘Trying to lie,and (sic) mislead theScottish people seems to have become the default position for the entire Media pack of the London Bubble.’

      The sentence doeasn’t even make sense reading it two or three times, it’s not the media form Cameron’s promises, it’s him! What’s the London bubble, is it sinking and the last gasp of the population coming up.

      If Cameron is talking nonsense, which in all probability he is, then he’s only joining in with the Fat Controller and his nonsense!

    • Doggie Roussel

      Hic….

    • Ronnie Strachan

      fearty Cameron?

      you SNATROLLS dont half talk a heap of tripe. Salmond only wants to turn the debate into Scotland v the Tories and grandstand to all you knuckle draggers and face-painters who slavishly prop him up.

      It is the bloated arrogant first minister who is the Feartie – challenged again today by Alistair Darling to a one on one debate on the referendum he cannot even be found to reply. Salmond has chased this moment his entire political life and he is content to put his lackeys Sturgeon and the useless Hosie in front of the cameras to respond to questioning. The man does not have the courage of his convictions and like you enjoys sniping and grumbling with this sense of grievance and entitlement running through all his utterings

      • The_greyhound

        Excellent stuff.

        How is the rest of the political spectrum allowing the plump cry-baby to get away with not answering the crunch questions about EU membership and Scotland’s currency?

        • Jambo25

          So he’s a Fascist and cry-baby at the same time. Nice trick.

          • The_greyhound

            Not an uncommon combination.

            A nasty piece of work, and one we will all be well rid of shortly.

            • Jambo25

              Not if the latest opinion polls are to be believed. Irregardless of the September vote it looks like the SNP are here to stay: possibly strengthened.

        • mitchyboy

          As you should know the EU will only answer the “crunch” question on membership if the current member state- the UK asks. They won’t, so make what you want of that. As for the other “crunch” question, the currency one, well unfortunately it is not in England’s gift to give. Any country can use it, with or without the BOE’s blessing ie currency union. I suspect it will only be used for a couple of years till we have our own currency–tipped to be one of the hardest in Europe. You really are going to have to come to terms with it. Westminster’s vindictiveness and putting Scotland on the naughty step is going to backfire big time, talk about cutting ofyour nose to spite y our face!

          • The_greyhound

            “talk about cutting ofyour nose to spite y our face!”

            I thought that is what a yes vote was.

            You have tried to side step the fact that Salmond’s case rested on twin assumptions, both of which are shown to be untrue.

            An independent Scotland would have to apply on bended knee to join the European Union, and may be compelled to adopt the Euro, if it is lucky enough to be accepted.

            In the meantime it is using another state’s currency in the way that any third world country would.

            It’s a poor sort of independence. But then, Salmond is a poor sort.

            • mitchyboy

              So much animosity. I think many English take it as a peersonal insult we would want to look after our own affairs. My wife is a Londoner, London my favourite city and I love England but still voting yes. It is the norm to be independent. Here are my thoughts in no particular order.
              Why would we have to beg on bended knee to get into the EU of which we are a member. Cameron might take us out anyway.
              Where in the treaties of the EU does it make provision for a current member to to be kicked out? That w ould not be democratic would it?
              How did countries, who were not members gain entry so easily? For example, East Germany, Latvia, Estonia, Croatia etc?
              Do you seriously believe that the EU’s biggest oil producer and second biggest gas producer would not be welcomed?
              Off course Westmister’s panic is all about oil. Yes I know, it is running out and we need Westminster to look after it for us, it is such a volatile commodity. Standard and Poor’s assessment ,(little media coverage) said that even without oil Scotland would get a trilpple A rating. But it is mainly a constitutional thing. We don’t get government we vote for. One Tory MP was sent to Westminster, is that demmocratic? Scottish politics are different, maybe a cultural thing. It is obvious that England is going to be very vindictive, we see it over currency, and now border controls (only ones that would be in EU) Read Mcrone report, hidden for thirty years,it also suggestsed that a Scottish currency would be the hardest in Europe, perhaps that’s the plan, who knows? Use sterling as we are perfectly entitled to do, in is not in England’s gift to give us ans eventuallu move over to our own one. Make no mistake, even if there is a NO vote, this question about regaining our nationhood will never go away, it is patently obvious that Scotland will eventually be independent again. This is not an Alex Salmon or SNP thing. there is a whole grassroots campaign up here from all pol itical lparties and none , meetings anad debates everywhere and also unreported in the English owned Scottish press and the BBC.

    • HookesLaw

      Correct he did not offer Devo Max – whatever that is. He clearly did not. He suggested that the Scottish parliament could have some tax raising powers (raising more of the money it spends) following the referendum. This would never satisfy the die hard Nats of course but they are far from a majority.

      • mitchyboy

        So wrong:” Die hard nats” Most Scots do not want more powers, we want full powers, in other words, out.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …no, most jocks want a socialist teat to suckle, lad.

      • mitchyboy

        Looking forward to a nation that is more supportive and inclusive of its fellow human beings

  • malcolmG

    Just the same old JAM tomorrow , promising nothing other than more responsibilities and a guarantee of less money to fulfill them

  • Raddiy

    It will be interesting to see what he has to say about devolution and an English parliament, because I have no doubt UKIP will have an English parliament in their manifesto, and they will be constantly reminding the English that he is prepared to bend over backwards to give more and more powers to the Scottish, the democrat deficit against England is , never considered or never discussed. To the Conservatives, Labour and the LIbDems, stuffed to the gunnels with the celtic mafia, they are playing a very dangerous game.

    They might think they have to keep their eyes on the north of the UK, but all of them should watch their backs, because the English are waking up.

    • telemachus

      The English have terminal torpor
      We do not care about the West or East of Lothian and any questions arising therefrom
      We are keen on the statuscquo and the reasonable influence on UK politics of the ScottishnMP’s

      • Colonel Mustard

        If ever a noisy empty vessel needed a terminal torpedo it is you.

        Bearing extreme left. Range beyond comprehension. Fire one!

        • telemachus

          Being an intelligent kind of a chap you comprehend well the facts behind my post

          • Colonel Mustard

            Being a patronising kind of half-wit you comprehend pretty much rock all. Your posts and facts are mutually exclusive.

      • Raddiy

        Profound words! Insightful wisdom! I wonder why I didn’t see it all before.

      • Hexhamgeezer

        Head north dear chap and show them what a real pain in the @rse is.

        • telemachus

          It will not have escaped your attention that the 2 main parties North of the Border are Socialists in intent if not practice

          • Andy

            Indeed, Scotland is controlled by Fascists.

          • Colonel Mustard

            A tautology perhaps. All socialists are socialists in intent rather than practice.

  • keith

    “we don’t want to give Alex Salmond a consolation prize for coming second” I think you just have and Cameron is an intelligent MP !!!!!!!

    • Wessex Man

      I would debate that with you!

  • Rossspeak

    Done up like a kipper Cameron – so the Scots vote NO ( likely all along which wee Alex knows only too well).
    Scottish Nationalists remain in power ( with more devolved powers).Wee Alec a hero whichever way the result goes.

    Labour retain their Scottish MP’s at Westminster – and therefore their inbuilt electoral advantage.Happy bunnies there then.North of England solid Labour as ever.

    No boundary changes as they were scuppered by a duplicitous Clegg, so rout of Tories in South by UKIP even more calamitous.

    English taxpayers continue to support Scots to the tune of £1600 per head pa more than the English.
    No referendum on EU membership as LAB ( or LABLIB coalition government likely).

    All round brilliant political strategy Cameron – you must be proud of yourself.

    • taranaich

      “English taxpayers continue to support Scots to the tune of £1600 per head pa more than the English.”
      The Scots get £1,300 (not £1,600) public spending per head, but contribute $1,700 more in taxes per head. Who is supporting who here?

      http://archive.is/5Swry

      • Alex

        Do not deprive the English Taxpayer of his myths. He is far too hard working to be factoring the UK deficit into his calculations.

    • HookesLaw

      The Scottish parliament would not have more ‘power’ – certainly as I see it. it might have some tax raising powers … ie more responsibility. In terms of the Nats and Labour that means more opportunity to ruin Scotland.

      • Eoin O’Donnghaile

        Yet under the Nats, Scotland has more inward investment than any part of the UK outside London. You may wish to look up the definition of ‘ruin’

  • alabenn

    So Cameron has decided that the current campaign that has almost solely been run on fear is a very bad mistake.
    He is repudiating what Darling has done so far.
    This has now descended into give them everything they want but the right to say they are an independent country, Salmond has won without the referendum, winning that will be a bonus.
    Ok, but their must be a culling of Scottish members in Westminster, there will be no agreement on that with the other two parties.

    • disqus_EjgKZ1VUFS

      The only way there will be a cull is independence ,then there will be no Scottish MPs in London.Roll on that day.

  • Framer

    I despair. Devo-max lite, today; devo-max proper, tomorrow; independence in all but name the day after tomorrow…
    And we were told devolution would end the debate.

    • Jeanne Tomlin

      Don’t worry. If Scots vote No, all supposed additional powers, none of which were actually mentioned in Cameron’s speech, will disappear like mist in the wind.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Well look on the bright side, it will give you a further opportunity to hone your whining skills and self-pitying sanctimony.

    • The_greyhound

      Nothing will end the noise (it was never a debate).

      To Scotland’s eternal shame it has a minority for whom resentfulness, whining, whingeing, paranoid ranting, bitterness, spitefulness and sanctimonious lying prating are a way of life – step forward the Scottish nationalist. The swine will still be whingeing in another 307 years. Depend upon it.

      Cut off the supplies of Buckie. It’s the only answer.

      • Col McGillveray

        ^^^You & This^^^

      • Col McGillveray

        Nice use of language. Perhaps a final solution could be your next proposal for the “Swine”.

      • bhudster10

        And you sound like a well rounded decent sort of course

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