Coffee House

Want to make welfare a ‘moral mission’? Stop toting it as a weapon.

19 February 2014

19 February 2014

Quite naturally, a piece from the Prime Minister claiming that welfare reform is ‘at the heart… of our social and moral mission in politics’ is provoking hilarity from those who’ve never backed that moral mission in the first place. David Cameron is writing in the Telegraph as a response to the Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols’ comments in the same paper at the weekend that the government’s welfare reforms were a ‘disgrace’. He argues:

‘Of course, we are in the middle of a long and difficult journey turning our country around. That means difficult decisions to get our deficit down, making sure that the debts of this generation are not our children’s to inherit. But our welfare reforms go beyond that alone: they are about giving new purpose, new opportunity, new hope – and yes, new responsibility to people who had previously been written off with no chance.

‘Seeing these reforms through is at the heart of our long-term economic plan – and it is at the heart, too, of our social and moral mission in politics today.’

The Spectator devoted its cover to the moral need to reform the benefits system recently. But there is one thing that makes Cameron’s job – and that of his Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith – much harder. It is very hard to argue that welfare reform is a purely moral mission when the same policy area is ‘weaponised’ by colleagues. George Osborne has used welfare cuts that are very attractive to voters such as the benefit cap of £26,000 for workless families to make Labour so uncomfortable that the party now seeks only to neutralise welfare as a policy area, rather than being bold. But Osborne gives the impression that he now enjoys not just cutting benefits but caricaturing those on them – his images of closed curtains and false dichotomies between working and feckless suggest a strategist, not a reformer at work. Our leading article in January warned the Chancellor off showing too much relish when announcing new cuts.

It is difficult to argue that your sole aim with welfare is a moral one when you’re also toting it as a weapon.


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Show comments
  • Monkey_Bach

    It speaks volumes about the character of a man who happily promises to convulse the lives of the nation’s poor, sick, and disabled in order to try to snooker a political opponent. This is low behaviour by any standard, even George Osborne who has already lowered the bar to ground level. Shame on Osborne and shame on the Tory cheerleaders egging him on to more horrors.

  • majentah

    All these debates about the poor omit one stark fact. When those with Parkinson’s, terminal cancer, late stage heart failure and Multiple Sclerosis are told they are fit for work by a person wielding a tickbox, on the basis that they can sit on the sofa for half an hour , own a pet or hold their hands above their head, and are then removed from the benefits system for having the temerity to appeal, we have long since left common decency behind. This is no longer about balancing the books but about fear and punishment. It is an utter disgrace and I say this as a lifetime Tory voter.

  • Bourne18

    It certainly seems that no one on here, including Ms Hardman, has the faintest idea what they’re talking about. Hands up all those who’ve found themselves dependent on benefits through no fault of their own. Hands up all who have been sanctioned (i.e. left destitute) for not keeping an appointment no one told them about. Step forward those who’ve been told they’re fit for work despite having a terminal illness. Anybody? Thought not.
    But then, when ministers lie and lie and lie, what can you expect?

  • Anita Bellows

    The welfare reform is an abysmal failure. The bedroom tax appeals have lead to a majority of overturned decisions on human right grounds, and appeals against JSA sanctions are also very successful. The Work capability assessments attracts also a very high percentage (43%) of overturned decisions, and the number of claimants has hardly come down. And let’s not talk about Universal Credit, or Universal Jobmatch, which have become objects of ridicule.
    There is no moral mission, as the Tories, Libdems, and Labour has not one fiber of morality between them. They are playing party politics with people’s lives, and that will come back to bite them in the neck.

  • Whyshouldihavetoregister

    I think you need to stop using the word ‘weapon’ when you mean ‘incentive.’

    • Monkey_Bach

      Or “encouragement”. Euphemisms are such fun aren’t they? Just like a thin coating of honey over a rusty razor blade.

  • Tony_E

    Benefits were weaponised when Brown extended them into the middle classes for political reasons – i.e. to get more support for the welfare system amongst people who had only been net contributors up til then by giving them back some of their taxes through the ‘Tax Credit’ system.

    It gave Labour the ultimate weapon : the tories will take away what we have given you.

    Of course, this fails to recognise the waste, and the fact that they were still net contributors, it was just that they were paying more tax too to balance the books. But the suspicion now is it’s only the benefits that will get cut – not the taxes, so it’s a Labour win.

    • Andy

      Exactly. The idiot Brown pushed ‘welfare’ up the income ladder to shore up the Labour Party client vote. The problem now is that there are more people who ‘benefit’ from the State than ‘contribute’ to the State. Until this is reformed we are going nowhere.

      • telemachus

        Come on
        You cannot sustain that

        • Andy

          Listen Fascist, it is the truth. Go do some f*cking research.

      • Alexsandr

        yes we now have the madness of taxing people at 40% to give it them back as tax credits
        almost as stupid as taking tax and NI off people on mimimum wage and giving them benefits
        does no-one see how inefficient this is?

        • Andy

          It is the great Welfare Merry-go-round. This is why we need radical reform of the Welfare System and the Tax System. Personally I would favour a Flat Tax of 20% and the abolition of Corporation Tax. I would also abolish Child Benefit.

  • Daniel Maris

    …and this is the reality of what the benefit dependent underclass face:

    The number of Romanians and Bulgarians
    working in the UK rose by 40 per cent in a year, even before work
    restrictions were lifted, new figures revealed today.

    “In the run-up to curbs being removed on January 1 there were almost
    144,000 people born in the two countries who had a job, compared to
    under 102,000 in the last three months of 2012.

    It means they took one in 10 of the new jobs created in 2013…”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562866/Romanians-Bulgarians-working-Britain-soars-40-year-BEFORE-work-curbs-lifted.html#ixzz2tlxesgTF

    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    10% of new jobs going to Romanians and Bulgarians! That’s the reality. Probably well over 50% of new jobs are going to immigrants – as we have previously seen figures of 80% quoted.

  • Daniel Maris

    The rentier class in this country I learned on the radio this morning is now £240billion better off that in 2008. They appear to have done rather well out of the recession.

    I heard yesterday that 75% of purchases are made by 20% of consumers.

    Focussing moral blame on the benefit-dependent underclass doesn’t help much.

    Yes, welfare requires reform but until there is a right to work it is all meaningless.

    • Andy

      What do you mean ‘until there is a right to work’ ?
      You mean benefit claimants don’t have a right to work ? No one is stopping them getting a job. This is mindless b*llshit as per usual.
      How many people do you employ ?

      • Mynydd

        You can only work if there are jobs available. According to todays figures the unemployed out number the vacancies.

        • Andy

          So how many people do you employ ?

        • Alexsandr

          most jobs are not advertised in jobcentres. the vacancies figures are unreliable.

        • Andy

          So how many people do you employ ???

          • Daniel Maris

            Self made man? No help from your Dad? Show me 100 business “entrepreneurs” and I’ll show you 98 who had substantial help from family through inheritance, easy loans and family investment.

            Anyway I do employ people through my membership of co-operatives and building societies.

        • Daniel Maris

          Not only that but at the lower end of the skills market each citizen going for a job is up against non-citizens prepared to put up with sharing bedroom space with perhaps 5 or 6 other people and in many cases take less than the legal minimum wage.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yep, the economy is stopping them getting a job and the system of mass immigration is putting the final seal on that.

        Next time you’ll be telling us you’re a self-made man and you never had any help from your Dad…yeah, yeah we believe you.

        • Andy

          Twaddle. The economy is growing and employment is expanding. And yes a system of mass immigration, as implemented by the Fascist Labour Party has done untold harm.

  • HookesLaw

    The £26,000 benefit cap is not a weapon. Its a fair policy. This may be why its coincidentally popular with voters. Your characterisation of the Chancellor seems wide of the mark to me – but if true it should endear him to the kipper trendency.

  • Makroon

    Cameron is on a “moral mission” to give free air-time to some obscure and befuddled Catholic cleric. He just can’t SHUT IT !

    • telemachus

      A Cardinal
      And therefore a force to be reckoned with in the world at large

      • Makroon

        I believe he is a candidate for cardinal (you just can’t get the staff these days in the Catholic church). Which is probably why he came up with his drivel – he has a need to ingratiate himself with the “man of the people” pope.

        • telemachus

          The current Pope is a superstar

      • Andy

        No one listens to Papists.

  • Fergus Pickering

    Nonsense, I sabel. Nonsense from start to finish. What would your chaps, I mean the Labour Party do different? Have you any idea? What would you do?

    • telemachus

      They would care
      They would start from a caring standpoint and ensure that actions of fiscal prudence would not disadvantage the poor
      They would not for example give a 5% tax break to the super rich while turfing the poor out of rented accommodation they can no longer afford

      • Alexsandr

        but the 5% tax break increased the tax take giving more money for distribution. the 50% rate was introduced in the dying days of a failed administration to discomfort the tories. If it was such a good idea then why not introduce it in 1997?

        • telemachus

          It is the unfairness of it all
          The dropping of the tax rate for the rich while penalising those at the bottom
          Sneering leering Osborne needs a lesson in humility

          • Kitty MLB

            You mean less then the tax rate we had for the entire
            time ( nearly) that Labour were in government –
            so obviously you made them wealthy, and being wealthy
            they are able to support the poor.
            The country needs wealth and the poor cannot take care of themselves or increase their lot by sneering at Conservatives-
            I think Osborne is one, unlike the others.

            • telemachus

              Darlings fiscal prudence after it was clear that the effects of Lehman were compounded by the Euro debacle

              • Alexsandr

                darling was going to hack away at public services if he was chancellor after 2010 GE. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a gibbering idiot.

                • telemachus

                  It is more a question of how and which and fairness
                  He certainly would not have awarded a 5% pay rise to the super rich

                • Alexsandr

                  how ignorant can you get. a 5% cut in income tax is not a 5% increase. Do the maths. or ask teacher.

                • telemachus

                  Tell me Alex
                  If you earn 2 million(most of Osborne’s Merchant Banker Friends) how far off a 5% pay rise is a tax cut of 5%?

                • Mynydd

                  When a tax rate is decreased your take home pay is increased. My teacher said when Mr Brown decreased the basic tax rate to 20% his take home pay increased.

                • Alexsandr

                  but not by 20%

          • Kitty MLB

            Does George ever actually leer, I thought that was a Lib Dem
            little grubby thing.

            • telemachus

              Watch him
              Leer and sneer

              • Kitty MLB

                To be honest Telemachus tend to avoid watching him,
                I just listen to his squeaky voice, which i must say is improving,
                not too sure about Ed Ball’s voice mind you- like a
                bull dog swallowing a wasp. ( I am not speaking of his old speech issue by the way, needed to make that point)
                But I shall force myself to have a little peek at the sneering
                and Leering Chancellor, who ladies seem to like-
                for some reason.

                • telemachus

                  So you are not a lady then
                  *
                  All both ladies and men cannot but be mesmerised by the Charisma of Ed Balls

                • Kitty MLB

                  I just sent you an e-mail, but I accidently sent it to
                  myself, that happens when you are a Conservative sometimes-
                  too many little grey cells 😉

                • telemachus

                  Not that you know my email, I can tell you it is full of those with offers for our local foodbank-both contributions and staffing
                  Thank God for caring socialists

                • Kitty MLB

                  I am a fragrant lady, let me assure you.
                  I just have a huge soft spot for the SNP
                  chap Angus Robertson, its his charm you see,
                  and determined Celtic nature, and the way he upsets
                  Cameron.
                  I understand Ed Balls is very good around a Kitchen
                  perhaps that is why some Ladies like him,
                  it cannot be any other reason- what with him being a leftie
                  and all that.
                  As for the men. I thought they held a candle for Angela
                  Eagle or the devine Mrs Balls—as I believe you do
                  Telemachus.

                • telemachus

                  I actually know Angela well and believe me she is the kindest wittiest girl I have the honour to be acquainted with
                  Would not say that of your darling Ms May

                • Kitty MLB

                  She does come across as being witty in the HOC actually,
                  when the autumn statement was moved to a later date last year, she asked if Christmas was also going to be moved,
                  it was so funny.

          • Alexsandr

            is that the type of humility that brown showed when the stupidness of his ‘eliminate boom and bust’ promise unravelled?

            • telemachus

              His promise was good for 10 years until Lehman
              On the fruits of his prosperity came the rescue of a creaking education service and conversion of failing health into a modern service
              You should get down on your knees to thank him

          • Andy

            He should penalise Fascists like you and the Fascist Labour Party. You should be subjected to punitive taxation – a rate of 99% would be suitable.

            • telemachus

              Yes you are probably right
              He would have delighted in steeling more from those who have least

              • Andy

                You are very rich. The Fascist Labour Party pay you a shed load of money to come on here.

                • telemachus

                  If only
                  I do it for love

          • sarahsmith232

            Unfairness? If we lived in a society with a free media you’d be too ashamed to make that statement, it’s ridiculous and you’d know it. Instead you’re being led by the Left and are only too happy to parrot their statements.
            Tax rates should only be about what will result in maximum amounts for the Treasury. What it is you’re demanding is a return to a system that all across the developed world has proved counter productive. We’d have the highest rate, France went after the millionaires this is going after those on £150,000. No other country is doing that.
            Why would anyone stick around for that? They wouldn’t, Labour knows this. The society that will follow on from that will be very unfair. The high earners will be able to choose to skoot, no skin off their nose. It’s the people left behind with far fewer opportunities that will pay for this. Then their earnings will slide.
            You call that fairness? You need to do more thinking.

            • telemachus

              Sunshine
              No-one is led by the Left
              We democratically formulate reasonable argument to promote the greater good of the majority

            • Mynydd

              This government has given those in the top income bracket a 5% tax cut, while at the same time bring more of those in the middle income bracket into the 40% rate. It should be noted that high earners didn’t skoot when the rate was at 5% for three years, it’s just a poker game to get the rate down to 40%

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                Yes they did you idiot that is why tax receipts fell.

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Yes you should write to that swine Gordon Brown and ask him why he only taxed these peek at 40% while the Coalition is taxing them at 45%. Why did Gordon Brown give a 5% tax cut to wealthy people like myself?

            • telemachus

              See above: Lehman then the Euro
              Remember Gordon rescued the world’s banks

            • Mynydd

              No need to write Mr Brown/Darling have already said the 50% rate was introduced to help reduce the deficit.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                No it was introduced as a political ploy to discomfort the Tories you dissembling idiot. Tax receipts, as a matter of public record, actually fell and have risen since the reduction to 45%. The top 1% of taxpayers now pay 30% of all tx while the bottom 50% pay very little. We have currently the mst progressive tax system in our history. The threat to increase the rate to 50% has nothing to do with raising revenue and everything to do with appealing to economically ignorant dissembling idiots like yoursel locked in an envious classwar because you are too stupid to have ever had a worthwhile job.

              • Alexsandr

                if that was true why introduce a measure that would cut the tax take?

        • Mynydd

          If the 5% tax break was such a good idea why did Mr Cameron/Osborne wait three years before making the cut. If as you say it increased the tax take then Mr Cameron/Osborne lost revenue during those three years. Doesn’t say much for their competence, wasting income for three years.

          • Alexsandr

            well the limp dems may have been a factor. And it was a barium meal planted by brown and his cronies. as you well know.

            • Mynydd

              The Lib Dem’s are only a factor because Mr Cameron failed to win an overall majority at the last general election and then didn’t have the bottle to form a minority government.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        No Labour gave the highest paid a marginal tax rate of 40% for 97% of its last reign of terror.

        • telemachus

          Yes but had to apply fiscal prudence in the face of Lehman then the Euro

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            They are a pair of economically incompetent, dishonest, democracy hating, authoritarian Labour fascists.

            • telemachus

              No
              A pair that care

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Brown was a major cause of the crash with his artificially sustained credit/property bubble. Lehman was a symptom, Brown was the disease.

            • telemachus

              What rubbish
              Greenspan led via the Fed into the mess

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                Brown was a cancer which nearly destroyed Britain. He bequeathed a structural deficit of £160billion and a 7.4% contraction of the economy without any help from Lehman Brothers.

                • telemachus

                  That contraction was Greenspan and Lehman
                  Gordon saved th banks then planted the seeds of recovery until Osborne choked them off by choking off investment on accession

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  More lies. Brown inflated the economy through public spending to create the illusion of growth prior to the last election. Typical of a man dedicated to his own selfish personal ends and who cares nothing for Britain and its people. The end result was a structural deficit of £160 billion and a 7.4% contraction of the economy. A man to cowardly to do the job for which he is paid from public money and requires him to turn up in Parliament once in a while but will not for fear of reminding everybody that the financial disaster which befell Britain was largely his fault.

                • telemachus

                  You cannot take from him that the health service would have collapsed without him

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Collapsed? Oh, you mean 1,200 people might have died needlessly and uncared for at mid-Staffs Hospital Trust? Well they did die needlessly and it was on the watch of Andy Burnham the Labour Health Secretary and Gordon Brown the Labour Prime Minister of the Fascist Labour Party.

                • Tony_E

                  The whole model for the health service is misguided, and tends to create less favourable outcomes for the majority than they would receive in other European countries which mix better private provision with a social insurance sector, with little of the coercive ‘NHS route to all treatment’ design.

                  That Brown threw money at it – mostly invisibly borrowed money for buildings, and more directly borrowed money for wage increases, only served to delay the inevitable. Massive change is necessary.

                • Daniel Maris

                  A survey suggested the Belgian model was best: free provision through different non-profit providers you could choose from.

                  I think that’s right. I can’t believe they have to wait for 2 weeks for a GP appointment in Belgium.

            • Mynydd

              Would that be just like what Mr Cameron/Osborne is doing now.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                We have the highest rate of growth of any western economy, unemployment is falling, employment is at record levels, business confidence is high, the structural deficit is being reduced etc etc. So no, yours would be the interpretation of Fascist Labour you dissembling idiot.

        • Kitty MLB

          Indeed, and Brown left a nasty little spiteful trap
          of the 50p tax which Osborne walked right into.
          He should have reduced that tax right from the very beginning,
          instead of flapping around and allowing the Lib Dems
          fat too much say and allowing them to make his party look incompetent and slow- Surgery was needed quick and effectively.

          • telemachus

            So you agree Osborne is incompetent

            • Mynydd

              Yes

  • Frank

    Very hard for the govt to make any credible claims about a “moral mission” when it puts up with Tim Yeo, David Laws, Maria Miller, etc, etc.

    • monty61

      Indeed. Moralising Tories have a long habit of coming unstuck very quickly.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Rather like Gordon Brown. That said, we do tend to remember that swine for contracting the economy by 7.4% and his £160Billion structural deficit.

    • telemachus

      Oh to return to the party of Moral Compass
      I agree

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        You cannot be referring to Fascist Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

        • telemachus

          Listen Son to Miliband and Balls and you hear the Truth

          • Alexsandr

            Oh I know about millipede and b0110cks all to well. Opportunist and pig ignorant.
            Did you hear Milllipede this week. ‘We want to get people who have suffered flooding back in their homes quickly’ Anyone but a fool knows it takes 6-8 months to strip then dry out a house, refit, including the electrics etc before anyone can think about going back. And they have to be sure any source of infection from the dirty water is removed from buildings.

            • telemachus

              Anyone but a fool knows it takes 6-8 months to strip then dry out a house,
              Son
              This does not have to be
              In my town those with access to the resources used industrial driers after the last floods and most were back in 10 weeks
              You need to be active and proactive as my Labour Council were

              • Alexsandr

                If you dry stuff out too quick it will warp and crack. And if the walls are not dry enough all the wallcovering will fall off, and you get black mould.
                whats the council got to do with it? This is the insurers job.
                There again maybe this was concrete buildings.
                I think I would believe a building expert than some council.

                • telemachus

                  There is often the need to facilitate
                  That is the function of government in a crisis
                  Tell Cameron

            • Mynydd

              Maybe if Mr Cameron had not cut the flood defence budget in 2010 fewer houses would have required stripping and drying out

              • Alexsandr

                nothing to do with a dysfunctional EA. And Baroness young wanting to nuke the pumps on the somerset levels. or the EA’s mismanagement of the jubilee river project. the one that takes water from above maidenhead and dumps it round Windsor and datchet.
                or their spending a loads of our cash on gay pride sponsorship.

                • Mynydd

                  The EA reports to the government, if it’s dysfunctional so why in four years have they done nothing about it. I thought Mr Cameron was into this gay thing like marriage.

    • Mynydd

      Do you mean £90,000 Maria Miller.

  • Kitty MLB

    Apologies Isobel, but I really do not agree with this article.
    The Labour Party are actually the ones who use welfare as a weapon to bash the chancellor, as well emotional blackmail from the ‘ peoples party’
    much hand- wringing and pointing at the posh boys who do not understand,
    and not being popular is far more important then getting on with what’s necessary.
    This is a moral mission, was it moral to leave people trapped in a life
    of benefits? and is it moral for taxpayers and those who work hard earning
    a small wage to put up with this?
    The chancellor, perhaps resembles a pre- French Revolutionary Aristocrat ,
    riding in his carriage, silk hankie- let them eat cake and all that!
    Perhaps that does not help, yet would they trust the smiling fake concern of
    of Ed Ball’s more?
    Frankly they have all been dithering for far too long, taking far too much notice
    of the pointless yoghurt knitting ( as someone says) bunny boiling, bleeding heart
    Lib Dems and just get on with it.
    Also the Leftie Arch- Bishop of Canterbury should just butt out,
    he should be more concerned that Christianity is being overshadowed
    by Islam in this country- and I am sure the wealthy church could do
    more if they wanted to.

    • Mynydd

      Please stick to the facts, pensioners receive over 50% of total amount of benefits, followed by people in work, then way down at the bottom are those unwilling to work. By the way Labour’s policy is to get this last group into work or their benefits will be taken away.

      • Kitty MLB

        Attacking Pensioners again, Did Mr Brown not do enough
        of that already?

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          No. He managed to destroy the provision of private pensions in the UK and turned the best privately funded pension service in the World into a massive deficit. Nevertheless, given time, I am convinced he could have done far more to ruin the lives of prudent, hardworking people.

          • telemachus

            He used the inflated pensions of the rich to give us a modern Health Service

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              So why was he planning cuts of £20 Billion to the NHS budget prior to the last election?

              • telemachus

                Fiscal prudence
                It came with Andy Burnhams plan to rationalise by seemless transition to social care which would have given greater net benefit

                • Alexsandr

                  andy burnham put in the transition from hospital to death at Stafford. He should be in Jail for negligence.

                • telemachus

                  Andy instituted an inquiry on accession to the Ministry

              • Mynydd

                Savings to be put into front line are not cuts

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Reality is not a concept you are familiar with.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              No he destroyed the pensions of a lot of ordinary people working in the productive sector of the economy while preserving those in the unproductive or public sector of the economy.

              • telemachus

                Andy did that
                How?

          • Mynydd

            Who was in power when there was a miss selling of private pension, I seem to remember it was Thatcher/Major.

      • HookesLaw

        About half the £116 billion welfare bill goes on ‘social protection’, this includes various tax credits. I do not regard pensions as ‘welfare’, that is a totally different pot. Unemployment benefit is about £6 billion.
        I see today that unemployment has fallen by 125,000. More confirmation of the economic successs of this govt.

        • Mynydd

          You might not regard pensions as welfare but the government does. State pensions come out of the welfare budget. So you agree that only a small part-£6Bn-of the £116Bn budget goes on unemployment benefit,

      • Alexsandr

        ‘By the way Labour’s policy is to get this last group into work or their benefits will be taken away’ that worked in 1997-2010 didn’t it?

        • Mynydd

          The figures show that unemployment is still higher than when Mr Cameron took office.

      • Donafugata

        Please be informed that pensions are not benefits, they have been paid for during a lifetime of NI deductions.

        • Donafugata

          The DT published some figures that show that over 40% of today’s claimants have made no contributions whatsoever.

          Clearly this is unsustainable.

          • Mynydd

            Who are the DT? Did the figures show that over 40% of today’s claimants are in work, and could well be paying income tax and NIC?

        • Mynydd

          So why does the government pay state pensions out of the welfare budget?

      • sarahsmith232

        Well, you’ve just shown up all that it is that’s left still voting Labour. Are you not aware that when Labour says that the cuts are affecting ‘hard working families’ they mean mothers claiming to be single and working the minimum 16hrs pw to get the benefits agency off their backs.
        Labour’s policy on JSA is to hoodwink people. Last time they massaged the numbers by getting people into short college courses that were absolutely necessary like an 8hr pw cake baking course, or a 12hr pw course on furniture polishing & vacuum maintenance. It moved people out of being classed an unemployed and gave them the ‘student’ label. This is their intention again. Note the ‘will take away benefits unless in employment OR training’ part. People will be under no obligation to show up for the course, they’ll be allowed to do this for as long as they please. Knew of one woman from a certain college that spent around 12/14yrs doing non-stop Access courses. It was social for her, the benefits agency was off her back, she didn’t have to do any of the essays, must have cost the taxpayer an arm and a leg. That’s how they’re going to deal with the problem of unemployment AGAIN.

        • Alexsandr

          The job centre people are useless. have no idea about advising job seekers.

          • Pitkapoika

            Can someone please explain to me, what Rachel Reeves’ “guaranteed jobs ” are. Where are they and doing what ? Shuffling printer paper and counting paper clips for a year perhaps ? Or is she going to open up a few Coal Mines, and create some ” Real Jobs”.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        No that is a lie that the Labour Party tells in order to get gullible idiots to vote for them. Labour, the party of lies, lying and liars, depend on a huge payroll vote to get them elected. The last thing Labour wants is for people on welfare to get jobs, become ambitious and aspiration a land start voting Tory. That is how the Fascist Labour Party thinks and works. It is essential to Labour that welfare dependants remain dependant.

        • Pitkapoika

          Absolutely !

      • Tom M

        Steady on there Mynydd, pensions ARE NOT BENEFITS.

      • Pitkapoika

        Since when, about ten minutes ago?

    • telemachus

      Oh Kitty you are so blind
      Isabel is mostly correct in her analysis of Cameron’s colleagues
      She forgot to mention the ridiculousness.
      *
      As the unreasonable continue to point out Cameron behaves as a true Patrician Liberal, wedded to the concepts of fair play but in truth he is a wolf and at heart has a mind akin to the Victorian Capitalist Bosses doing down the poor and disadvantaged
      He tries to cloak all this in written and spoken words of reasonableness
      The folly of the ‘colleages’ is that they do not play ball
      *
      Hence all reasonable folk will know what to do at the ballot box

      • Kitty MLB

        I repeat. I am not a Cameroon, and utterly dislike
        Cameron, I hope he will be gone as soon as possible,
        and that we shall have a Conservative leader with more gumption,
        or even a Conservative leader- that would be nice,
        but I must be fair and your lot have never dome that, or been truthful
        about what you would do.
        We farewell and all that, good luck with the battles- you will need luck.

        • telemachus

          I hope he will be gone as soon as possible
          *
          Only 15 short months to go

          • Andy

            We hope you will be hanged sooner than that.

            • Kitty MLB

              Not too sure about that remark,
              that’s the sort of remark, the very weird Viceroy would make.
              Regardless of political differences between parties,
              no one should actually be hanged-
              Saying that…Where is Tony Blair, and his acolyte David Cameron, perhaps we could lock one of them in a dungeon
              fro a short while, and the other, i have not decided.

              • Andy

                The ECHR would rule that to be degrading treatment.

                • telemachus

                  But not for Hunt and Gove

                • Kitty MLB

                  Well, if we scrapped The ECHR and took control ourselves,
                  then it would be up to us.
                  We could put flowers the place if you prefer, take away the rotten smell.

                • Andy

                  No, no. Telemachus is a traitor and deserves to be hanged, but if you wont have it a nice, damp, dungeon (hopefully at risk of flooding due to the EA not dredging the river) will do quite nicely.

                • telemachus

                  How is someone who wishes to restore the glory of our country a traitor?

                • Andy

                  See the Treason Act of 1351.

                • telemachus

                  the Act applies only to activities carried out on British soil*

                  You have no idea from where I post
                  *See Rex v Casement

                • Andy

                  It does not. See Rex v Joyce.

                  And we know you post from Fascist Party HQ.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                A short while! Kitty tell me you are not going soft on Tone!

                • telemachus

                  Tone perhaps as a revisionist for a short while
                  Hunt and Gove for the oubliette

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  For all his faults, he was not a Fascist like the rest of the Labour Party.

                • telemachus

                  He lied us into the Iraq war
                  We cannot forgive him
                  He should go back to the Pope and repent

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  He is a paragon of virtue compared to Gordon Brown.

                • telemachus

                  No
                  Gordon reintroduced the Moral Compass
                  Blair was even more a Minister for Personal Greed than Keith Joseph and his most famous disciple

                • Ooh!MePurse!

                  Read some history and do some thinking. Nothing annoys me more on this site than your leftie stupidity.

                • telemachus

                  It is as a student of history that I see the wrong done by the right wing media to Gordon
                  If you have no contribution please do not annoy me

                • saffrin

                  Gordon is a moron, as seen at the 2010 Labour party conference.

                • telemachus

                  There is no need to deny or apologise for the great benefits Gordon brought to the important social infrastructure of our society after the previous 18 years decline
                  Before Gordon 50% of patients died on cardiac waiting lists and old folks had to wait 5 years for a new hip

                • saffrin

                  One word, Staffordshire.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Blair believed there were WMD in Iraq ( and there were)
                  The Iraq was wrong for many reasons, we lost a lot of our chaps and because of that war and we were being far too cosy with the US,
                  the middle east now hate us basically because of that war.
                  Yet Blair was not wrong about that madman Hussain
                  would you want him wandering around with Assad right now.

                • telemachus

                  Do not defend this snake who we now see as thick as thieves with the NoW miscreants

                • Kitty MLB

                  Not as thick of thieves as he was with Wendi Deng,
                  allegedly. I see it more as removing Hussain then defending Blair.
                  I am of a similar mind to Nicholas, considering the rest of
                  the rotten apples in the barrel, Brown and the rest, you do realise that perhaps Tony Blair was the best of a very bad Leftie harvest.

                • telemachus

                  Sadly Blair was not a Socialist

                • Kitty MLB

                  No, Nicholas, I have not gone soft on Blair.
                  I originally thought of a very slow medieval type
                  ending for Blair in a dungeon.
                  I then thought of the lions in which my Roman ancestors
                  used in the coloseums so thought I would just pop one
                  inside with Tony- so it should not take too long.
                  Cameron is more of a Sisyphean challenge- need to
                  think about that one.

              • telemachus

                I had in mind a dungeon for Hunt and Gove

                • Kitty MLB

                  Not Michael Gove, leave him be, I beseech thee.

                • telemachus

                  Why spare this educational Social Darwinist

                • Kitty MLB

                  ‘ educational Social Darwinist’
                  Ouch, that was the cruellest cut.
                  I know he wishes to take education back to basics ( as such-
                  and dependant on the age)
                  with more emphasis on traditional subjects,
                  especially maths and science…but social Darwinism,
                  even a Leftie cannot truly think that.
                  Michael Gove has vision, direction, determination, passion
                  and he is also from humble beginnings.
                  He is not afraid of militant teaching unions, and wants
                  to make education about the children, and not teachers with their box ticking.
                  Michael Gove is really the only Cameroon I have any time for,
                  if the rest strangely disappear, I would have to kidnap him
                  and keep him hidden somewhere, and allow him out
                  to torment his beautiful opposite number occasionally.

                • telemachus

                  Tell me Kitty
                  How would you describe plonking a Free School next to a Maintained Comprehensive in an area with no need for extra places
                  In the hope that the Free School will suck the children with engaged parents out of the maintained school leaving it to wither and decline over a period of years
                  *
                  Fine you Govians may say but what about the poor children without proactive parents who are left in the failing school

            • telemachus

              Mattereth not my survival
              My views will outlast us all

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Good points Kitty but Isabel is just a mouthpiece for that leftist idiot Mary Riddel at the DT.

      • telemachus

        Isabel is one of the best connected journalists around
        And much the most even on this blog

      • Kitty MLB

        Thank you most kindly, I have only been here for a month and still getting used to people within this place,
        and not just those who produce articles, not too sure about Isobel yet.
        Also,just working out who supports which party is not always obvious.
        Well Labour are obvious, but then we have Kippers ,cameroons and Conservatives like myself .
        Impressed with the Spectator though, brilliant wide ranging articles and they do not police you.

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          Agreed. Stay with it Kitty, sane voices like yours and Colonel Mustard’s etc are much needed.

    • Patricia

      Spot-on post, Kitty.

  • Mynydd

    Is Mr Cameron’s long-term economic plan the same as the USSR’s long-term economic plan. We know how that one turned out.

    • Kitty MLB

      Absolutely despicable and deceitful leftie rubbish!
      A voice from the ‘ peoples party’, who left us in a creaky boat
      full of holes, without a paddle whilst surrounded by sharks.
      we had absolutely no money to full back on- remember the little note.
      The poor were always going to suffer more as a consequence of Labours
      little rampage- and did they give a toss.
      We were left with a 50p Tax Trap from the spiteful and bonkers Gordon
      Brown, whatever we do Labour will use spite and deceit saying its not necessary to make cuts- where will they do it?
      I am not a Cameroon, I think we should have had a majority Conservative
      government or at least a minority without the pathetic Lib Dems,
      but I prefer them any day to Labours despicable political vultures.

    • HookesLaw

      No its nothing like the plans of the USSR – you are talking meandering rubbish.
      Cameron is not doubling the national debt.
      Cameron inherited out of control spending a ruined economy and a 160 billion pound annual deficit.
      Any logical conclusions are of your own deranged making

      • Mynydd

        Gross National Debt – year 2010 £760Bn – year 2013 £1160Bn – Year 2015 forecast £1560Bn. Now do the sums then tell me if Mr Cameron is doubling the National Debt or not.

        • Andy

          So please tell us all how YOU would have balanced the budget to delivery a surplus in 2010 ????

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Get ready for some real fascist Labour rubbish.

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          As has been explained on numerous occasions debt rises because the economy contracted by 7.3% under Brown while he left us with massive social spending commitments and a £160 Billion structural deficit. You cannot expect disingenuous socialist scum to acknowledge that truth.

          • Andy

            Answer came there none.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              There never does from the supporters of the Fascist Labour Party.

    • Andy

      It was you Fascists that left the largest deficit in our history. The rise of the National Debt is the Fascist Labour Party’s great gift to the people of the UK. And when did you and the likes of you ever give a flying f*ck about the National Debt ? You have oppose every single effort to get public spending under control. The mess the last Fascist Labour Government left will take at the very least a generation to sort out and probably more like two generations.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      More dishonesty. Labour left us with a 7.4% contraction of the economy’ a £160 Billion deficit and gigantic, unaffordable public spending commitments. Brown wad the most imprudent and disastrous Chancellor in British history. With that huge contraction of the economy and massive spending commitments, borrowing has inevitably risen. Only the most massive cuts in Health, welfare and education would have allowed borrowing to remain at 2010 levels. We can only imagine the screams from leftist idiots like yourself if such cuts had been imposed. As usual, misleading tripe from a Labour Party troll.

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