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Ukip beats Tories in Wythenshawe as Labour hold seat

14 February 2014

8:27 AM

14 February 2014

8:27 AM

So Ukip did come second in the Wythenshawe by-election (and Labour won, of course). David Cameron says the 4,301 votes (17.95% of the vote and a 14.5% swing) that John Bickley won wasn’t ‘the sort of break through that people were talking about’. The Prime Minister, who saw his own party pushed into third place with 14.5% (3,479 votes), did also say that ‘obviously messages are sent, and signals are sent and protests are made and governments should always listen to those things and I always do’.

Now, the usual caveat that you can’t extrapolate very much from a by-election in one constituency applies. But Ukip can reasonably claim that it is becoming the official opposition in the north when it comes to by-elections at least. And that it is now no longer a surprise when the party comes second shows how far it has come.

The real question, though, is who the party stole its votes from. In my interview with Paul Nuttall this week, he described Labour voters as ‘low-hanging fruit’. The swing from Tory to Labour was 11%, and it may be that Ukip simply split the Conservative vote to give Labour the comfortable 13,261 votes (55.3%). Which makes them dangerous in the North, but not for Labour.

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Show comments
  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Be advised that logistic difficulties make it virtually impossible for a resident abroad Brit in say Japan, to register their vote in a UK election. Method in their madness or what? Anyone that flew the coop us hardly going to be a Labour supporter.
    And this is assuming the long-term resident abroad still has the right to vote in UK elections, mindful of the fact that after five years said Brit is no longer covered by the NHS.
    Jack, Japan Alps

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    So Labour got 13261 votes. I can understand why voters would reject the Conservatives, but voting Labour, I mean come on! Those wonderful people that brought you multiculturalism through mass third world Muslim immigration.
    “If you want a Muslim for a neighbor, …”
    Smell up and wake the coffee, Britisher pals.
    Jack,…

  • Northerner1001

    What this result also prove is that UKIP are by far hurting the tories the most, they are taking most of their support in the north in these byelections so this line that they are a ‘serious threat’ to Labour is baseless, UKIP are a right wing party taking mostly angry ex tory votes

  • Radford_NG

    If the Conservatives don’t address the issue of Blairite postal voting it may tip the balance in 2015 in favour of the grand coalition of the Labour Party,Co-operative Party and Pakistani Peoples Party.

  • poppy2009

    If the postal votes for the labour before the actual votes on Thursday
    may have made added to a Labour seat that was on the cards. UKIIP
    in second place with the conservatives in third. There may have been
    a few protest votes taken from the conservative and the Lib Dems that
    lost their deposit. There was a predicted voting intentions done
    between the 17th and 31st January showing that by the end of 2014
    the labour lead done to 2 points. The UKIP will do very well in the
    EU elections but will they in a General Election. By-Elections does
    not always reflect the vote when it comes to GE day, there can be an
    element of tactical voting until decision day.

  • Smithersjones2013

    If one looks at the seat historically (which previously has seen Labour take 60% of the vote) its clear UKIP split the floating vote. A vote which previously has swung between Labour, Tory and Libdem. Whilst the establishment parties like to perpetuate the pretense that almost everybody is a partisan supporter of one of their parties the reality is fewer and fewer people are. There are fewer Blue Donkeys and Red Zombies every year and the Yellow Peril is now an endangered species.

    Furthermore, the only people who are talking about such a “breakthrough” in a seat that has been solidly Labour for more than 50 years is the deranged propaganda arm of CCHQ. Only an idiot (and Cameron does a fair impression of such fairly often) would not recognise that under the circumstances UKIP couldn’t have done much better. UKIP’s real breakthroughs in this government will likely come against the Tories in places which were until 1997 Tory heartlands but began to crumble with the rise of Blair.

    Of course now UKIP are second they can argue that they are the only serious challenge to Labour in the seat and begin hoovering up the remnants of the other parties support. Then they can only wait for Labour to make mistakes in government to take more votes from them. It will be interesting to see how Miliband’s misfits tailor the likes of immigration policy in particular as a result.

  • Daidragon

    Yet another failure for the Kippers. Will only ever be a protest vote.

  • Denis_Cooper

    “The real question, though, is who the party stole its votes from …”

    Why do you say that UKIP “stole” votes?

    Are you accusing them of electoral fraud?

    “The swing from Tory to Labour was 11%, and it may be that Ukip simply split the Conservative vote”

    Or it may be that you’ve simply overlooked the collapse in the share of the votes taken by the LibDems, from 22% in 2010 to less than 5%, and therefore it hasn’t occurred to you that most of the 17% who deserted the LibDems transferred their support to Labour.

    Which process can be seen on the left hand side of the opinion poll charts I have recommended before, here:

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls.html

    with the yellow line slanting down steeply, a total drop of about 14%, while at the same time the red line slanted up almost as steeply, a total rise of about 11%.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    Poor Dave, he’s fallen to referencing UKIP’s as not “…the sort of break through that people were talking about”.

    I wonder: As they’re mounting Dave’s head on that spike, 15 months from now, what kind of breakthrough will that be, Dave?

  • Mynydd

    Same old spin from Mr Cameron. What he should be asking is, how many of the long standing members of

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …unless the Cameroons drop out of those marginals.

      • Daniel Maris

        What do you know of UK politics from your North American lair? Not a lot on the basis of that “comment”.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …what are you blathering on about now, laddie?

  • BarkingAtTreehuggers

    The people of Manchester deliver the message, as predicted:
    http://i4.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article6708469.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/JS32424004-6708469.jpg

    Sulk or savour?

  • Northerner1001

    The same old whinging from UKIPPERS about postal voting, It’s perfectly legal & above bored, It’s not knew & not a single Westminster election (General or Byelection) has been decided by postal vote fraud so your conspiracy theories are pathetic, time to grow up!

    • saffrin

      “It’s perfectly legal & above board”

      Na, it is perfectly fraudable.
      With Labour knowing many Asians are on the electoral role claiming to live at every buy to let home they own.

    • Daniel Maris

      Nope – it’s an invitation to fraud. Especially in household where there is a man in charge.

      • Northerner1001

        Again you have ZERO proof of this ‘invitation to fraud’

  • Northerner1001

    As I said to the more deluded UKIP supporters on here & elsewhere who told me I was in for a ‘shock’ Labour would always win comfortably & easily increase their vote share,both of which they did. UKIP simply are not as strong in the North West compared to other areas. I’m so glad they’re splitting the right wing vote too,roll on 2015. The left is united to get the tories OUT!!! Well done Labour on successful campaign which was fought without any complacency,keep it up!

  • Leo McKinstry

    Nigel Farage is absolutely right to complain that democracy is being subverted by postal voting. In Wythenshaw, the number of those voting by post, 10,141, was almost as great as the number casting their vote in person at the ballot box, 13,883. There are several disturbing consequences of this pattern. First it increasingly renders political campaigns meaningless, since a large section of the electorate will already have voted weeks before polling day. In the 1970 General Election, Labour lost because of a last minute swing caused by poor trade figures published just two days before polling. The news badly undermined Labour’s bombast about an economic upturn. But such a dramatic, last minute switch would be impossible today Postal voting also greatly expands the scope for corruption, abuse and manipulation, especially by so-called “community leaders” in the inner city. In one notorious case in Birmingham, so many postal votes had been harvested that a judge said the process “would have disgraced a banana republic.” Labour, of course, removed most of the controls in postal voting in 2004 precisely to give the party more control over its urban electorate.

    • Shazza

      Perhaps Leo, one of the newspapers such as The Express/Daily Mail/Sun should call for a petition to ban postal voting except for the medically confirmed infirm. Ukip should call for an investigation into the Wythenshaw postal voting.

      • David Simpson

        Just pure sour grapes

        • Shazza

          As a staunch Conservative voter, I would never condone fraud as a means to achieve a Conservative victory. It was never in doubt that Labour would win the seat. This is about morality. It is about living in a first world, civilised country as opposed to a third world, banana republic. Being fair, I would like an election to reflect the truth – hence my concern at the alleged postal voting shenanigans. Your comment is a sad reflection of your own morality.

        • Wessex Man

          how many more times? stop sucking you greedy person or you’ll end up with an expression like Harriett Harperson!

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …noooooooooooo! Good God, man, haven’t our poor retinas been thrashed about enough ?!?

        • Ridcully

          Just a stuck record.

    • HookesLaw

      This assumes that these dedicated enough to postally vote early would have been swung by late news. postal voters are more likely to be committed unswingable voters

      • saffrin

        Most postal voters don’t even get the chance to vote as their votes are cast by the head of the family.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …or more likely, a political operative.

    • Doggie Roussel

      Sing that message, Mr McKinstry, from the highest tower…

      Not only did the revolting gang of two, B & B, conspire to open the floodgates to all sorts of third world refugees who would naturally vote labour, but they engineered the probably corrupt and iniquitous postal vote scam, where squadrons of Liebour goons press ganged aged and vulnerable voters by offering to tick the right boxes and submit their votes.

      This cabal of millionaire, pseudo-socialist scum which sits on the Labour front bench is a self-serving, self-interested bunch of foetid pond dwellers, supported by the BBC and other septic organs of Establishment.

      • ROBERT BROWN

        Phew….strong stuff doggie….i absolutely agree with you…..ooooorraahhhh.

    • ROBERT BROWN

      Cheating and fraud is rife amongst the ‘asian’ community, it’s in their DNA. In asian society, if you can cheat and get away with it, your status among your peers improves…….a sikh told me that. One reason i do not visit Curry houses……one near me had a pets’ implant chip found in a meal by a customer……and my sikh friend said they use the crappiest and reject meat a lot of the time…..spices hide the taste from the lager-heads. Put me off curries for life.

  • Chris Kimberley
  • Chris Kimberley

    farage can be pleased, but its not the 30% he was hoping for, ukip still a protest vote

  • Swiss Bob

    Which makes them dangerous in the North, but not for Labour.

    Is that why Labour have set up a special unit to smear UKIP?

    In the GE Labour won’t be able to use it’s fraudulent postal vote to such effect.

    • Alexsandr

      why not? thay will be a it hammer and tongs. Postal votes should be restricted to the infirm and those with pre booked trips away, with supporting evidence.

      • Swiss Bob

        The difference is that Labour cannot artificially shorten the campaign and this will lessen the impact of their postal votes, not eliminate it, obviously.

        • Alexsandr

          well Cameron wont do anything about postal vote fraud so I suspect it will be a factor in 2015.

          • Makroon

            The electoral commission IS on the case, so we can hope that the loop holes are closed before the GE.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …sorta like your fellow socialists in the EA have long been on the case in Somerset, lad?

          • Mynydd

            A postal vote from an overseas tax haven is as good as a postal vote from your street.

      • Major_Eyeswater

        I hear that Labour activists pop round the day after the postal vote forms are sent and offer to help pop them in the mail. Then their candidate pops up in Westminster. The Lib Dems did the same in Eastleigh.
        With dodgy postal voting, unequal constituency boundaries and waves of law from unelected foreigners does anyone think we still have a democracy in Britain?

        • Swiss Bob

          Total turnout – 28.24%

          Postal votes – 10,141

          Station votes – 13,883

          As the judge said: “Banana republic Britain”

          • Doggie Roussel

            Is there any way of knowing the proportion of postal votes in favour of Liebour ?

            • telemachus associates

              It just does not matter with the size of the majority.
              The message here is that Cameron should be afraid.
              Very afraid.
              He sees how the UKIP fruitcakes split the right vote here
              How much more in the 43 Tory Marginals he now has no hope of keeping.
              (PS Chair returns Tuesday)

              • Pip

                They split the right vote in a ward that is dominated by the left, the only News here is the UKIP took 18%, the Tories 15% and LD less than 5%.

            • Mynydd

              Is there any way of knowing the proportion of postal votes in favour of Conservative?

              Is there any way of knowing the proportion of postal votes in favour of UKIP?

              Is there any way of knowing the proportion of postal votes in favour of Lib Dem?

              Is there any way of knowing the proportion of postal votes in favour of all the Greens?

              Is there any way of knowing the proportion of postal votes in favour of None of the above?

              • Jackthesmilingblack

                Is there any way of knowing how many postal votes were “doctored”?

          • Makroon

            Are you really trying to say that without postal voting, UKIP would have won, in a rock-solid Labour seat, where a very popular MP has just died ? Are you nuts ?

            • Swiss Bob

              I said no such thing so take your meds and relax.

              • Shazza

                See my reply to David Simpson regarding his ‘sour grapes’ comment to me.

          • fozz

            28.24% turnout. Absolutely pathetic. If people can’t be bothered to use their vote they don’t deserve to have the vote. No wonder we end up with smaller and smaller groups influencing the outcome of elections and thereby creating the mistrust of Westminster and Brussels as pressure groups get their way. You could say we get what we deserve as a nation.

          • David Simpson

            pure sour grapes

          • BarkingAtTreehuggers

            Time to call in the UN to witness the ballot then.

          • Pip

            Maybe its time we introduced minimum IQ Standards for those who wish to vote, after Labours last disaster in office and their legacy of failure and mass immigration who but an utter imbecile would still cast a vote for them!

            • ROBERT BROWN

              Sadly Pip, all too many. Middle and working class public servants, an army of them, most with non- jobs or under-employed, immigrants and hard-core benefits types. They will always vote Labour.

        • Alexsandr

          if you have actual evidence of that practice then you should report it to the police.

          • Swiss Bob

            The police who drive around in cars with “Vote Labour” on them?

            • David Simpson

              LOL what an idiot

              • Wessex Man

                well if you won’t be told.

              • ROBERT BROWN

                Swiss bob is right, coppers are public servants, they will vote Labour…..

          • Alexsandr

            who voted this down? is there some troll who endorses electoral fraud?

        • Gareth

          If you place any value on democracy, you need to respect the decision of the voters in the constituency.

          • Alexsandr

            but only if electoral fraud is not widespread. And I suspect electoral fraud is widespread in postal voting. So results are not the will of the people but of those manipulating the system. I am at an utter loss how anyone can think the current state not broken.

            • Northerner1001

              You ‘suspect’….where is your evidence of electoral fraud? where?

              • Alexsandr

                well there was the case in brum where the judge found practices like a banana republic. and in Bristol where the postal vote data was given to labour before the actual polling date. Anyone who doesnt think this is widespread is naïve.

                • David Simpson

                  sour grapes again

                • Wessex Man

                  how many times do you have to be told? Stop sucking them!

                • ROBERT BROWN

                  Non so blind that will not see……….

            • David Simpson

              sour grapes

              • Wessex Man

                well stop stucking them then!

            • Shazza

              See my reply to David Simpson below regarding his ‘sour grapes’ comment.

            • Gareth

              To my mind, your “utter loss” says more about your inability to appreciate that individuals make their own decision who to vote for, based on the priorities which are important to them and their own conception of the world.

              If you have solid evidence of electoral fraud, present it to the Electoral Commission. You shouldn’t assume that fraud is widespread merely because your party of choice hasn’t won.

              • saffrin

                Your refusal to accept postal votes are cast by the head of the family and not the voters those postal votes were addressed only reinforces Labour’s reputation for criminality and denial.

                • Gareth

                  1) I’m not a member of the Labour Party.
                  2) I’m not going to accept something just because you claim it. Show me the evidence.

                • Ridcully

                  Alternatively, let’s just restrict postal voting to those for whom it is absolutely necessary; then the potential for fraud is minimized.

              • Alexsandr

                and you should not assume it does not happen because your lot won. It debases the system for everyone.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Well, he might need to accept it, but acceptance doesn’t imply respect.

            • Gareth

              You’re right. I wouldn’t want to end up like the Americans with lawyers disputing every ballot. We might not like every election result, but unless someone can offer some actual evidence of electoral fraud, it just looks like sour grapes.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Well, the process is flawed, and it’s right to object to that. And that flawed process is much a part of any lack of respect given to a result, and may also be driving down voter turnout. Anything that deligitimizes the electoral process can tend to have these results.

                • Gareth

                  It would be if anyone had offered any evidence to back up their assertion. But tellingly, no one has.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, it’s not telling that shadowy crimes aren’t easily or often exposed. That’s more the norm. But yes, the process is flawed, and the proportions of postal ballots are first indication of that.

                • Gareth

                  The proportion of postal ballots is much more likely to indicate the extent to which people find it convenient to vote by that method.

                  You’ve made the assumption that people are registered for, and submit, postal votes for fraudulent reasons; you haven’t demonstrated any evidence that this is happening in any significant numbers.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, you’re making an assertion now. You’d have to provide data as to average postal vote take up, to prove your assertion. The numbers are fishy, that seems clear.

                  I’m not making any assumption about postal voters or voting. I’m making the observation that postal voting to the percentages here shown is flawed, and deficient to a more robust voting day turnout. You’re the one clamoring for “respect” for outcomes, and I’m just providing you recourse to give you the respect you’re clamoring for.

                  Again, “evidence” of shadowy crimes is always sketchy and perhaps hard to come by. Investigations have to be paid for, and who is going to pay for them?

                • Gareth

                  So your argument is that if more than x% of votes come from postal ballots, they must be fraudulent? You haven’t convinced me why this should be the case.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, my argument is that if more than x% of votes comes from postal ballots, the system is flawed, and inferior to a more robust election day balloting. That’s a given.

                  The instances, however currently scanty, where postal balloting has turned up corrupt give additional weight to that flawed status.

                • Daniel Maris

                  In a Muslim household, according to Sharia law, the senior male directs the women. This means if there is a postal vote the senior male will tell the women how to vote. Not sure I can make it any clearer for you.

                • Gareth

                  But they wouldn’t try to exert any influence if it was a vote in person?!? Honestly, there’s clear and then there’s simplistic.

                  I got a thoughtful reply from Major_Eyeswater arguing on a more philosophical level, but no one else has offered anything other can conjecture that electoral fraud must be taking place. Put a figure on it – in how many households have women been directed by the senior male? Which parties did they vote for, and which would they have otherwise chosen?

                • Daniel Maris

                  Yep, the military seizing power can delegitamise results – but you have no objection that, being a Francoist.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  What are you blathering on about now, laddie?

            • Daniel Maris

              And that’s why you’re a Francoist and not a democrat.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …is it drug induced, or are the voices up in your head directing you, lad?

          • Major_Eyeswater

            Gareth – thank you for your reply. Yes, I think you make a good point, the vote is in and Labour won and that’s that. However I am very worried that postal voting is being systematically targetted by political parties playing what I fear is a flawed system.

            I also agree with the old Chartist demand for equal electoral districts and think that allowing demography to erode this (regardless of which party benefits) undermines the equity of all our votes.

            Finally, I fear that our loss of legislative sovereignty to Europe emasculates our Parliament, that the electorate senses their votes have less relevance (“why vote? nothing changes” etc) and so do not bother to turn out.

            I would point out that the parties keen to game the postal vote, who deny equal constituencies and yearn to hand more power to Europe are Labour and the Lib Dems.

            They make me fear for our democracy, not the good voters of Wythenshawe.

    • Mynydd

      If you know of a case of a fraudulent postal vote you are duty bound to report the evidence to the electoral commission.

      • Hexhamgeezer

        .and make oneself open to accusations of ‘hate crime’?

    • AnotherDave

      Lets see how the voting goes at this year’s May elections. See what effect UKIP has on the Labour/Conservative vote shares then.

      “Steve Fisher from Oxford University has looked at the figures, and found that in places that had local elections in 2012 and 2013 on the same boundaries – combining district wards to make county divisions – UKIP progressed equally at the expense of both Conservatives and Labour.”

      http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/02/mel-stride-mp-3.html

    • Northerner1001

      Where is your evidence of postal vote fraud in this election? Pathetic whinging as usual from UKIP!

      • saffrin

        At Oxford Crown Court one family were found to be collecting unemployment benefit, housing benefit and postal votes, among other things, from every house their greater family owned.

      • ROBERT BROWN

        Best thing is to abolish the postal vote…end of.

        • Mynydd

          So someone in hospital, therefore unable to get to the polling station, is not allow to have a say in who his/her MP should be. What about the sales rep overseas trying to get an export order. There is a long list who you would ban… end of.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            If postal voting could be made secure and 100% anonymous (which by definition it can never be, due to means legal and illegal), then it wouldn’t be suspect. That’s why election day balloting is the best. It can be made both secure and 100% anonymous.

          • ROBERT BROWN

            Well, until the wretched Labour Party, and it’s only them, stop their fraudulent abuse of the system, there is no alternative, end of.

  • Brummie

    I thought they were on the way to running labour a close second? A lot more work to do to take Labour votes. UKIP will need to clarify its position on the welfare state, NHS & the minimum wage if it wants to pick up those working class, left wing votes. It can look as hard as it likes for those labour voters who lent Thatcher a vote but they won’t find them; times have changed significantly.

    • Swiss Bob

      The working class are not left-wing, they vote in their interests, which used to be Labour. How any working class person thinks a bunch of talentless parasites like the multi millionaire Labour front bench represent them I have no idea but given the numbers it appears at least some of them are waking up.

      • Brummie

        Bob they may not all be but having grown up on a council estate in Birmingham – Kingstanding (which bizarrely the Tories took a council seat in last night for the first time ever) I can assure you there are plenty of left wingers and socialist’s. They may not resemble
        the Islington/Notting Hill intellectual lefties that inhabit the Westminster
        bubble but their views on issues like the NHS, the minimum wage, the role of the state are all of the left.

        Don’t just assume that because the don’t like immigration, smoking laws or taxes on booze that they are natural Libertarians

        • Swiss Bob

          Perhaps I should have differentiated between working class and those on long term benefits.

          What really hacks me off are all those middle class numpties for whom a vote for Labour is a salve on their conscience because Labour are the ‘nice’ party. Most of the ones I know don’t even read a newspaper but will happily vote Labour or LibDem, perhaps Stalin as our in-house loon would say had it right 😉

          • Makroon

            Paul Nuttall notwithstanding, UKIP=Nigel Farage, a jolly, typical southerner chancer, exactly the type of caricature middle-class southerner, that large swathes of northerners love to hate. When they vote Labour, they are not thinking of Red (another less-jolly, middle-class southerner chancer), for these voters Labour is THEIR party.
            If you were not besotted with Farage, you might be able to see this.

            • Swiss Bob

              “besotted with Farage”

              As I as I didn’t renew my membership I can hardly be besotted but as I said, if Labour didn’t think UKIP were a threat they wouldn’t have set up their smear unit would they?

              • HookesLaw

                What lies have Labour told about UKIP? After all how else would they ‘smear’ them?

                • Wessex Man

                  oh Hooky, please don’t go there!

          • Mr Creosote

            “middle class numpties” – I assume you are referring to our esteemed colleagues that work for the State in some form or other – ie 54% of the population!

    • Gregory Mason

      The minimum wage does nothing. The welfare state and the NHS have also torn apart the fabric of society the past 50 years and impoverished the people it purports to help. It’s never been in the interests of voters to vote Labour whether they knew it or not.

      • AnotherDave

        The minimum wage increases youth unemployment, so not quite nothing.

        http://youtu.be/ca8Z__o52sk

        • Gregory Mason

          You’re right of course.

          I’ll add that it also increase inflation which defeats the point of raising it.

          • Brummie

            The problem is you haven’t got to convince me. UKIP has to convince me you have got to convince the swathes of people working on minimum wage or low incomes whose children
            have not been able to get jobs. In these area’s the population trust, rely and genuinely believe in the state. You’ve got to sell small state ‘libertarianism light’ to them.

            • Gregory Mason

              I’ve managed to shine it on a couple of people however some people seem to think that the state is the best way to resolve problems. I think though that more and more people are waking up to the fact but there is still that ingrained voting patterns (vote Labour because my dad did) amongst Northerners in particular. The state is like a pig, it may find you the odd truffle but you’d be better off eating it.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, UKIP doesn’t “got to sell small state ‘libertarianism light’ to them.”

              UKIP is formed to blunt the EUSSR, and engage the People in the effort, and awaken them to their rights (and responsibilities) in that regard. It isn’t correct to say that UKIP is or must be out to push a libertarian agenda, light or otherwise, as that would have the potential to erode its prime message, which is to blunt the EUSSR. Sovereignty facilitates a robust freedom and liberty, which can be used by different people in different ways. Smart politics doesn’t lock out any of those people and differences, it offers them a home in support of the prime message.

      • HookesLaw

        The notion that the NHS has torn apart the fabric of society is a monumental load of poo. You are clearly well don the road of howling mad hysterical nutjobery.

        • Gregory Mason

          Perhaps you should read, ‘The Welfare State We’re In’ by James Bartholomew. I had the privilege of going to his book launch on Tuesday at the IAE and I remember one of the speakers said something along the lines of this, ‘a socialist (leftie) need misery and poverty like a window cleaner needs dirt.’

          Why would a window cleaner want his days cleaning to last forever? If he did then he’d be eventually be out of a job. The socialists will never eliminate poverty as they rely on it for their political power for if they eliminated poverty what would they do with themselves? That’s why they continuously have to invent “oppression” and create new underdogs so that they can continue to exist. Why would they eliminate that which sustains them? They are like a leeches. Taking from the system but not adding to it.

          The welfare state for instance is the sole reason why we must have mass immigration to prop up the biggest ponzi scheme in British history. Mass immigration on its own is enough for me to want rid of the welfare state as I think that on its own has done more singularly to damage the fabric of British society.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Yes, importing an underclass is a prime objective of all the West’s socialists.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …spoken like the true socialist that you are, lad.

    • Wessex Man

      er South Thanet? Labour 35%, Ukip 30%…. Lib/Dum 5%- Great Yarmouth? Labour 37%, UKip 30%…Lib/Dum 4%

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