Coffee House

The Olympian smugness of the anti-Sochi gay protests

7 February 2014

6:32 PM

7 February 2014

6:32 PM

Now look, as Tony Blair would say, homophobia is bad. Very bad. But does that mean we have to turn the Sochi Winter Olympics into a sort of global gay pride event, simply because Russia has passed a not very pleasant law against teaching children about homosexuality? Apparently it does. Every right-thinking hack on earth, it seems, has expressed their disgust at Putin’s bigotry. Politicians are also desperate to let on, though they can’t say so publicly, that they really don’t approve of Russia. And Progressive media companies are using the opening of the Games today to show off their moral superiority to those backward Russians. Google has turned its logo into a rainbow. The Guardian has done the same to the G on their online masthead. Channel 4 is having a gay pride jamboree. Not to be outdone, The New Statesman has rainbowed their Twitter handle. We can expect plenty more such displays over the coming weeks.

All right all right — we get it. We are more tolerant than them. We accept others, unlike those Russian pigs. We don’t oppress people because of their sexuality. We celebrate it. Hurrah for us. But is this all really a true expression solidarity with those poor gay and lesbian sods in Russia? Or is it just a chance for everyone to show off how tolerant and great we are? We all know deep down it’s the latter, but we pretend otherwise. It’s all so smug and boring and fake.

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Show comments
  • Martin Snigg

    Yes. RR Reno “The Elite Project of Gay Marriage”. We’ll keep our dignity, the emptied souls can faff about in their spastic grope for Power. So sick.

  • jeffJ1

    Not that I should be surprised, but this is an incredibly dishonest post. A “not very pleasant law against teaching children about homosexuality” is like calling slavery “a perhaps ill-considered system promoting labor participation among African Americans.” I wonder if you would dismiss all social protests with cries of “alright, enough already” or if it’s just protests over gay rights, in particular, that so bore you.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      To be fair, he’s criticising the holier-than-thou grandstanding. I think there’s something in this. Every western country except a few places like Holland and Denmark had its own raft of discriminatory laws until v. recently. We’ve come a long way in a short time, and now we look down on Russia. Don’t you think it;s remarkable how gay rights have become a liberal touchstone? The president of the USA making a diplomatic incident out of it? Unthinkable 10 years ago.

  • roger

    Having logged on through Google for days without realising the choice of colours had a meaning beyond ‘rainbow’, like i don’t really think about the 5 rings (isn’t that a Zen thing?).
    Live and let live.

  • wudyermucuss

    Russians are generally white,thus acceptable targets.
    Non white hompophobes get the cultural relativity free pass card.

  • scampy1

    What do you think a worldwide vote asking do you think it normal for a man to stick his reproductive organ up another mans waste pipe would produce?

    • Doggie Roussel

      Nausea perhaps ?

  • David Prentice

    As always, the self-entitled one per cent have to make it all about them.

  • StephanieJCW

    ” It’s all so smug and boring and fake.”

    In your opinion. What is smug and fake and boring is being contrarian, just for contrarian sake.

    • Doggie Roussel

      It’s certainly boring !

  • The Elderking

    Yes, why aren’t the gays all flying over to Saudi, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Somalia, Kenya, Egypt, Gaza, India etc. When compared to Russia, which has only barred gay propaganda to children, surely their time is better spent in those other places.

    Why isn’t Tatchel “bearding” those mullahs? Clare Balding has a lot to say – why doesn’t she go over and tell all those camel jockeys?

    Get on those planes, get your Guardian and BBC journo’s with you and stick it to those people.

    Or are you two faced cowards?

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Tatchell and co. do campaign about muslim bigots and executions in iran. But the Olympics are happening in Russia – and it’s governments, not gays, leading the charge.

    • Doggie Roussel

      They’ all return with their hands chopped off… or perhaps their tongues…

  • tastemylogos

    I am no post colonial, ‘right on’, ‘progressive’, lefty fool who despises British history to the extent of feeling guilty over it but all I will say is this… I don;t remember Russia invading countries, Bringing destruction and a million deaths as well as supporting Jihadis for ‘Neo-liberal’ reasons premised on lies and folly.

    Yet we sit here and have the gall to demean and belittle others? Makes me sick.

    • La Fold

      You never heard of Afghanistan?

      • tastemylogos

        1) 40 years ago. Not in the present.

        2) Was not bent on lies but to consolidate control of the Khyber Pass.

        Rights or Wrongs, it was not undertaken under a false premise of self righteousness.

        I am not an apologist of Putin’s Russia or its rather archaic, totalitarian past. It has a dispicable political culture.

  • ItinerantView

    “Progressive media companies ”
    I wait with bated breath for the same level of opprobrium, heaped on the many enterprises and sponsorship deals,of the Gulf States.

    In the Gulf Sates,for the ‘crime’ of being gay “punishments range from jail time, fines, deportation, and the death penalty. A person may also face forced hormone treatments which may include chemical castration”

    The hypocrisy of progressives is beyond parody and their silence, when it comes to religious intolerance, speaks volumes.
    They get tied in knots with Islam, they tolerate the intolerant and throw their sacred cows under the bus.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      But the Olympics is not happening in the Gulf States.

      • ItinerantView

        Who said it was ?

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          campaigns pick their moments.

          • FrankS2

            Yes – the safe ones!

            • Jeffrey Vernon

              Safe, or maybe ‘facilitated.’ The eyes of the world are on Sochi for the Olympics, so why start campaigning about gays in India or somewhere else?

          • ItinerantView

            ..hence the bated breath.

  • Q46

    And before people get too smug about how we eliminated ‘homophobia’ in the West, they should remember we were the ones who introduced it.

    • saffrin

      Wrong. Labour introduced it, Labour promoted it and Labour made a hate crime out of it.
      A very intolerant bigoted point of view if you ask me.
      Who the **** do those Labour party bigots think they are to think they can inspire hatred and get away with it?

  • igor.s

    Can someone enlighten me ( since i came many years ago from unenlightened parts of the world…:) as i still dont get it : why is it exactly that homosexuality should be taught to children ?

    • Eddie

      Do you mean what happens in Russia? Locking up children in prisons so they get rayped by older boys?

      • saffrin

        I think you mean UK Social Services care homes Eddie.
        They aren’t known as the SS for nothing.

        • Eddie

          Russia is a runt of a country where army initiation ceremonies regularly involve the raype and beating of young boys – some of whom then die or have to have legs amputated.

          It’s all this macho posturing. A sign of a backwards culture, It is the same in Arab and African societies. And many black boys in the UK are like this – and a large number have no fathers and are probably gay themselves. Certainly they are massive insecure and uncertain of their masculinity.

          And the same in Afghanistan and Iraq where even Taliban recruits are expected to, ahem, keep their teachers warm at night by pleasuring them. It is not gay as a lifestyle – and that would involve fewer Islamo-babies being born, so they’re against that – but gay as a behaviour, esp with an older man budggering a boy – well, it’s practically compulsory once you get past the Urals…

          • saffrin

            You are just too weird.

            • Eddie

              Thanks, comrade!

              Actually, I say what I see (and have seen on trip to Russia – I am now banned I think, but that’s a long story: I once offended the deputy ambassador…)

              But hey, I am a very tolerant and pragmatic man.
              So OK, a lot of Russians are macho-posturing, bigoted, violent, racist, bullying, backwards, thuggish and corrupt.

              Perfect, I would say, to become members of the good old British police force – so why don’t we invite more over? Come in PC Putin, your time has come…

              We seem to allow every other undesirables from all over the world into the UK to celebrate their diversity and to give them a vibrant welcome with free healthcare and council homes – so why not racist, homophobic, mediaeval-minded mobsters from the Urals? Maybe they could black up too eh, so they fit in with all the other racist, homophobic, backwards. mediaeval-minded masses we let in? Our authorities like swarthy fascists with funny African/Asian names… Maybe if Putin became Al-Putin he’d get in easier though…

              • Baron

                It’s amazing, Eddie, how some people turn an expert on a country visiting it for a couple of hours. If you spoke the language, went amongst the ordinary Russians, lived amongst them you couldn’t have formed the view of them you seem to have formed. The only difference between the man in Russia proper and one in the great US republic is that the latter washes more often. Still.

                • Eddie

                  Well, how do you know I don’t speak the language or know a great deal about the culture and history?

                  I actually first visited Russia when it was Soviet, and have seen the change as I taught plenty of Russians at a later date.

                  BTW I know loads about Australia and I have never been there – plenty of ignorant blubber-brained chavs have though. Are you seriously suggesting some pinheaded twit who has visited a country knows more than an educated and well-read person who hasn’t?

                  I think my assessment of Russia and the Russian character is spot-on – and certainly the Russians I know who have been lucky enough to escape to Canada largely agree with me. They accept their country is an enormous fugg-up – a brutal, harsh, mad and unpleasant place. That is not to say individual Russians cannot be friendly people – but the place itself? Not to my taste.

                • Baron

                  Not the place or time to argue the case, Eddie, but if Baron may suggest you learn the language some more, dig deeper into the culture, the pre-bolshevik culture in particular since the Red Menace did more damage to this great race than any of the Tzars before it.

                • Eddie

                  And I can suggest in return that it is not necessary to be fluent in Russian to fully understand the country and its people.
                  I see the Red Menace as just more of the same. They had dictators called Tsars. They were replaced with Dictators who were commies. Now they have a dictator who is a Mafioso. Plus ca change. The place has always been brutal, harsh, violent and unpleasant.
                  Something in the Russians’ blood means they can never get away from that yearning for a strong man – maybe it’s a confused sort of Christ-worship?
                  But then, certainly in the past, such a huge place with a small population needed that iron fist – as does China now, which is why it will never allow disobedience.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      I doubt anyone is ‘teaching homosexuality’ anywhere in the world, just as no-one is teaching heterosexuality. The law bans propaganda, which could be quite inadvertent. I might be selling or lending books about gays where an under-18 y/old might read them. It looks like one of those arbitrary laws to be used as and when against opponents.

  • Thomas

    How dare you say that everyone is just being smug, the games are the only chance we have to highlight it on an international stage and actually get change, it puts pressure on the government. I suppose you’ve got a better solution, just let them keep getting beaten up and killed perhaps until it all blows over?

    • tastemylogos

      They didn;t take such a smug, outrageous attitude to our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2012.

      We brought a million deaths on the premise of lies. I don;t think we can take a moral high ground on much.

      • Thomas

        We can and should take a moral high ground on this one occasion.

        • tastemylogos

          Funny how it is only ever on this ‘one occasion’. In reality we poke our noses into the internal business of others far too often.

          We preach ‘tolerance’, but ultimately we exude none towards those who are more conservative than our elites would like.

          Nor do we show tolerance for ethno-religious borders or national sovereignty.

          We will reap what we sow. You don;t think Russia, China et al are totting up precedents for their own future behavior?

        • tastemylogos

          anyway, again…

          Where was Russian smug self righteousness over our despicable foreign policy in 2012?

          Our elites are hypocrites.

  • RationalSpeculation

    I didn’t realise the Winter Olympics were on. I thought Russia was hosting a large gay rights festival, with some skating tacked on. I may have been watching too much Channel 4 News.

  • artemis in france

    Why should homosexuality be celebrated? This is the sort of nonsense which has created the backlash which gays are experiencing, and not just in Russia. They’re not spécial, just different, and as it is estimated that they make up only 1% of the population do not desserve the preferential treatment they are now getting. Look at the prédominance of gays within the media and on our télévision screens. If they were all as funny and unprecious as Graham Norton I wouldn’t mind, but so many of them are merely visible because they’re gay. They can’t help being different, I get it, but that’s no reason to act as if they are somehow a gréât gift for which we should be eternally grateful.

    • Fergus Pickering

      All these gays. Bruce Forsyth, John Snow, Simon Heffer, David Beckham, Alex Ferguson … is there no end to it?

      • NotYouNotSure

        If the media is to be believed by the number of gays it portrays, one would think they are anywhere from 10% to 50% of the population.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Just a teeny-weeny exaggeration, wouldn’t you say. A lot of show business people are gay. I think that has always been the case. I should think gay policemen are thinner on the ground.Plenty of gay soldiers though. It’s the dressing up.

          • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

            Does that mean they do bellydance, too? : )

            • Kitty MLB

              I should hope not, no one wishes to see a squaddies belly button.

              • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                laugh!

                • Kitty MLB

                  There was a very old TV programme that they show repeats
                  now –
                  could Dickson of Dock Green- I think they
                  used to dress up a lot – not going to tell you what though,
                  it will cause you to faint in a very Jane Austen type of way.

        • Kitty MLB

          NTNS
          A lot of gay people are in show business-
          especially on the stage.
          Also sports people such that young swimmer
          chap are gay, although perhaps they find it more
          difficult to come out in the sports world.

          • tastemylogos

            funny how we found out Daley was gay just before his own TV show was aired..

            Not that I am cynical or anything.

        • saffrin

          Same goes with blacks and asians. Almost every TV advert has one or the other on show and more often than not both.
          Talk about indoctrination, they don’t even bother with subliminal messages.

          • The Elderking

            Join a minority and get out and proud mate.

            You can be sure you will get preferment in recruitment and be practically unsackable….

    • Graeme S

      nailed it

      • The Elderking

        Absolutely. Gay fascism is doing more harm to them than if they just STFU and got on with their lives. We don’t want to know or care what they get up to. But when they keep shoving their sexuality in everyones faces its understandable that people get pretty sick of them.

    • Baron

      When homosexuality was legalised in private for consenting adults aged 21 and over in 1967, the co-sponser of the bill in the Upper House Lord Arran said: “I ask those [homosexuals] to show their thanks by comporting themselves quietly and with dignity… any form of ostentatious behaviour now or in the future or any form of public flaunting would be utterly distasteful…”

      If the good peer saw what’s going on today would he welcome it or propose another bill this time curbing the many ‘forms of public flaunting’?

  • Jack Dawson

    It’s just the sanctimony of the recently converted zealot.

  • Маrcus Campbell

    Damn right. I’ve worked in Moscow for 3 years. Sure it’s got its problems, but no more than many other places, London included. It’s kind of embarrassing to field questions from my students like “so, do you HAVE to be gay in England?”

    • Fergus Pickering

      I think your students were teasing you. Chill out, as our heterosexual PM might say. I’ve always thought Putin swung both ways, all this baring of flesh and bodybuilding, don’t you know.

      • NotYouNotSure

        It is not a surprising that homosexuals fantasize about Putin being gay, because a podgy wimp like Cameron surely does not make him attractive.

        • Kitty MLB

          Putin, likes to portray himself as the Alpha Male-
          All that riding with a bare chest, and being photographed
          with wild animals, Russians like him doing so also.
          Yet he has a soft side, he loves his dogs and does a lot
          of work trying to protect seals from slaughter ( will not
          say what he thinks about humans)
          The tough Alpha Male image of Cameron’s shinny
          smooth podgy Liberal hugging self on horseback would not work here.
          Cameron also is not very masculine, and not very attractive,
          also, I think gay chaps might prefer George Osborne,
          to Dave- who is just a jellyfish in reality.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Well yes, Dave’s not masculine, but his wife is, and I understand they make devices to facilitate that sort of thing.

            • Kitty MLB

              I apologise if this sounds catty which is not my nature,
              but upper class ladies do have somewhat horsey features
              and large teeth.
              Say what you like about Cameron’s lack of masculinity
              but do not say such things about David Davis and George Osborne.
              I know he is a Cameroon, yet with a pre French revolutionary
              charm about him, I could imagine him in a coach,
              his pale lace covered hands holding silk hanky to his nose,
              trying to avoid the smell of the guillotine.
              He also has a strength about him-
              Yes I know I should be utterly ashamed of myself,
              its beneath the pall but what can I do 😉
              Devices, I assume you are f referring to the horse
              he rides a lot in Oxfordshire- it helps with the fertility-
              You cannot answer that one 😉

          • Eddie

            So ‘masculine’ equals being a bare-chested violent tough guy, does it?
            You see, don’t you think that attitude might encourage men to be really masculine and beat their wives?
            Because men who are not violent get called wimps and unmasculine by idiots like you.

            • Kitty MLB

              No indeed not, there is nothing worse that a brain dead
              bag of potatoes, violent, uneducated , boring , vein and with no sense or wit.
              I was just saying, that’s how Russians like men to be-
              as well as all resembling Clair Short.
              We would hate David Cameron to be so shallow
              which indeed he is not, and the English have more substance about them.
              I also make a habit of having little digs at Cameron,
              perhaps they should not be so personal.
              Just a point though, More fragile men as well as
              well as less fragile men can also beat their wives-
              you do not actually need to be physically huge to do that.

              • Eddie

                Point taken.
                However, there is this contradiction in feminism eh? If a man is kind and gentle, he is seen as a wimp – and mocked by women for that. So boys and men are encouraged by women to be touch and violent then, non?

                I see the same sort of macho posturing in the UK as Russia though, largely amongst black and Asian males, and also the least educated men and women.

                In a lot of UK state schools, esp the sink comprehensives (de facto secondary moderns) any boy who is not rough, violent, anti-schoolwork, pro-sport will be seen as a wimp by both male and female classmates and mocked as being gay (which is an all-purpose term meaning interested in intellectual things rather than just being a sporty mugger in training who behaves like a gangsta). One reason I would never send my son to such a school.

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  Lordy. How the British commentariat love to wind themselves up with horror stories about comprehensive schools. The loutish sporty stereotype used to be attached to the public schools just a few years ago.

                • Eddie

                  Actually, based on personal experience – I used to teach kids bullied in the awful London comprehensive mess. Schools there full of those (often blacks) who bully any boy for being gay if he is not a thick sporty mugger in training.
                  Of course, there are de fact grammar schools in the comp system – because it is selection by postcode. Ergo all those socialistic hypocrite politicians make sure they live in an area served by a top comprehensive and would never ever send their beautiful children to an ugly violent failing comprehensive. How do I know this? Well, let’s just say I used to teach (as a private tutor) the kids of the Labour elite and so know how it works and where their kids went (and of course, I was a private tutor to their kids too!)

                • Jeffrey Vernon

                  I assumed you were one of those people who’d never set foot in a comp but nonetheless knew all about them. My apologies. An anecdote: I went from a council estate to a comp, not the best one in town (where there were three selective schools: I can tell you, they didn’t take any poor bright kids) and in fact there was a kind of stigma over mine. But I was not exceptional in getting three passes in science, three in languages, three in humanities, and a music qualification. We who went through the comp in its heroic phase were better educated than our parents or our children. If it’s gone bad, it’s been allowed to go bad.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Your because clause does not make any sense. Read it again and you will see what I mean. Putin always reminds me of Jimmy Savile. He went in for body-building too. And of course Putin was a secret policeman. Those guys are pretty dodgy.

          • NotYouNotSure

            Putin likes to hunt and shoot things, Jimmy Savile worked for the BBC, it is very difficult see what they have in common.

            My clause makes perfect sense, its hardly a secret that homosexuals want all those that don’t like them to be secret homosexuals.

        • Kitty MLB

          I have a correction to make, Putin was not
          doing work to help the seals- that was someone else-
          Apologies.
          Also, is he not somewhat sinister looking& somewhat
          plastic in appearance- has he had work done on his face ?

      • Weaver

        Yeah; I’ve always got that feel from Putin’s adventure home videos. A little too ostentatious and self-regarding, almost as if he was insecure over his own sexuality….

    • Eddie

      You should have said ‘Well, do you have to be a wife-beating child-rayping vodka-swilling potato-munching bigot in Russia?’
      Russia – like the south of Europe, (Greece, Italy), Turkey, the Arab world etc accept gay behaviour but not the lifestyle. Loads of Russians are gay, but many of the men kid themselves that so long as they play the male part (ahem…) then that doesn’t really count as ‘gay’.
      Oh come on, Russia – a despotic regime that murders journalists and is run by a kleptocracy – has very many more problems than any Western European nation.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      If they ask *that* question, it must have more problems than you’re admitting.

  • Wangchuck

    Why is Russia so intolerant? Didn’t they have ANY parapelegic Jewish bisexual lesbians, or blac–I mean ‘Afrikan’ genderqueer poets in Russia to spare for the opening ceremony?

    • Eddie

      Well they have the music of the gay called Tchaikovsky and the poetry of mixed-race Pushkin, of course…

  • Alexandrovich

    Yeah, but we had Mrs. Lawrence and Shami Chakrabati holding our Olympic flag. All they could come up with were the only woman to have flown solo in space and some bloke called Gergiev.

    • Ron Todd

      Imagine the shame if we had to resort to using say a couple of nobel prize winners some previous olympic greats Stephen Hawking and the inventor of the internet who was already in the stadium.

      • Wangchuck

        Nonsense, certainly oppressed genderqueer womyn of colour have contributed to the UK much more than any white man, including Tim Berners Lee, Francis Crick and Jeremy Bentham, to name a few choice oppressors.

  • AndrewS

    I love gays (not that I would let one f**k me up the bum or anything). Most are really nice but some can be a bit chippy (not as chippy as the Scot Nats and don’t get me started on the disabled or, God forbid, feminists) so, I say, with the greatest of affection, that they should learn to be tolerant. Because, really, are Russian homophobes any worse than Islamic homophobes? I say this as a friend and fellow Guardian reader.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Tatchell and co. do campaign about muslim bigots in britain, and executions in Iran. But right now there’s an international circus going on in Sochi, so it must have seemed opportune to bring up the anti-propaganda law

  • Conway

    What is “not very pleasant” about not introducing homosexuality to children? If they were demonising it, you’d have a point.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      The law will punish quite inadvertent ‘crimes’. Like stocking gay books where anyone under 18 could read them.

  • Wangchuck

    Now if they can just show the same enthusiasm for homosexuals being executed in allies like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan…

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      The Olympics aren’t in Pakistan.

      • Jon Dow

        They were in China…

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Quite right, and visitors to the Chinese games staged literally dozens of human rights protests at the time. I saw a clip of a protest about Tibetan lesbians. During the Beijing Olympics, it would not have been a good tactic to ignore China and campaign about human rights in Saudi Arabia (for example)

      • whs1954

        If something like homophobia, or anything else, is an issue, it’s an issue, regardless of whether the country’s hosting the Olympics or not.

        • Neil Saunders

          And if it isn’t, but is just a made-up ideological word designed to prejudge the issues and stifle dissenting opinions, then the Russians are right and our elites are wrong.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Can you imaging Barack Obama trying to make an issue of Pakistan’s gay laws when American drones are killing Pakistanis. All campaigns have to pick their moments; and along comes Sochi.

  • saffrin

    Do Hetrosexuals have have no rights, how is it we are expected to tolerate gay bigotry without comment or protest?
    Putin has the right of it. If homosexuals are born with their affliction, why would children need to be taught.
    What the gay movement are complaining about is the fact they can’t control the World’s indoctrination so instead they embark on hate campaigns.
    Just girly if you sak me, can’t get what they want when they want it so it’s tantrum time

    • HookesLaw

      ‘as they like to claim….’
      The depth of your ignorance nastiness and bigotry are breathtaking. Never mind there is a party waiting salivating for your vote.

      • saffrin

        Kiss my ring baby.

        • HookesLaw

          Thanks for proving my point you disgusting turd.

          • saffrin

            Hooky, how intolerant of you.

      • Nele Schindler

        I fail to see how this phrase is ‘nasty’. I also believed that gays were ‘born that way’ until I saw close gay friends change their minds.

        Some dimwits then proceeded to lecture them that ‘you were simply bisexual but didn’t know it/didn’t want to admit it’ and informed them that they were now condemned to a two-faced lifestyle of ‘suppressing your real desires’, funnily enough the SAME crowd of humanities-degree holding know-alls who professed their belief that sexuality is ‘fluid’.

        In my modest experience, there is only one class of people that’s truly nasty, intolerant, stupid and ludicrously inflexible – Lefties who believe they somehow know how the world has to spin on its axis.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Agree with your first two paragraphs. But why drag lefties into it? Preachy screechy identity politics is hostile to notions of class, and not inherently left wing

          • Ridcully

            ..but the left are so good at it.

            • Jeffrey Vernon

              I wonder. Most feminists I know explicitly reject what they think of as the Male Left. And Nele Schindler’s acquaintances are simply incoherent; sexuality is fluid but you mustn’t be a two-faced bisexual even though it’s an inborn trait – bizarre mix of hippydom, pop psychology and neo-darwinism. I can’t see any of that appealing to a socialist.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Dear me, you do feel strongly. Just sit down, love, and breathe deeply. Did a nasty man put his hand on your leg when you were but a lad?

      • Q46

        ‘Did s nasty man….’

        Probably not, hence his self-esteem in tatters. ‘What was wrong with me?’ he sobs into his pillow each night.

      • saffrin

        Thanks for the reply. Just like Hooky, you prove what we’ve already known since your very first posting.
        An intolerant lefty t**t.

        • Kitty MLB

          Yuk, it was the other way around- glad the chap had better taste.
          if a Kipper
          is left out in the sunshine they go off-
          stink actually- become putrid.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Do you suppose that Russian children were all being taught gay propaganda until this law was passed? What people object to, I think, is an anti-gay law with no rationale behind it except to scapegoat a minority. And it’s not gays protesting, so much as governments wanting to look morally superior.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      The Russian law would make some kind of sense if Russian teachers or campaigners were filling children’s heads with ‘gay is good’ messages. In the absence of any such propaganda, it seems the law was passed simply to draw attention to a scapegoated minority. I don’t know what most gays think about the ‘born this way’ idea – it sounds improbable to me, the labs that re-analysed Dean Hamer’s ‘Gay Gene’ data from 1993, and to campaigners like Peter Tatchell. But think about it; no-one is born with a tendency to like hot chilli pepper or forms of pop music that won’t even exist until they’re 30 years old, so all kinds of complex behaviours (including I suppose sexual tastes) can be acquired in the course of events or ‘naturally’ without there being an inborn basis for it.

  • GnosticBrian

    Where was all the hysteria when India’s Supreme Court restored an 1861 (colonial) law banning sodomy? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/12/world/asia/court-restores-indias-ban-on-gay-sex.html?_r=0

    • Wangchuck

      The UK, being the image-obsessed nation that it is, would rather you forget that law existed, since it was the UK who instituted it in the first place and that might lower the UK’s waivering self-esteem, and we mustn’t have that, shall we?

      • GnosticBrian

        Is it better to have doubts about previous great achievements of no great achievements whatsoever?

    • anneallan

      It is a truth universally acknowledged that only whites can be nasty, bigoted, homophobic ……..

      • telemachus associates

        Spoken, I take, it as a White Homophobic Bigot.
        It is odd how the unreasonable right decry reasonable (PC) acts by trying to portray themselves the underdog.
        It is a truism that White European so called Christians have subjugated minorities and folks of other creeds, cultures and ethnicities for two millenia.
        They complain when the oppressed fight back.
        Try a little humility.
        (T minus 10-our Chair is back in 10 days)

        • Tom Allalone

          And the Ottoman Empire contained no Christians being oppressed by Muslims, just as the Mogul Empire didn’t oppress Hindus, the Chinese Empire was loved by its minorities, the Aztecs were secular liberals and the Ashanti Empire was built on fairy love. Whenever they get power, humans of whatever creed or colour have an unpleasant tendency to abuse it and subjugate others – it’s part of our nature, like stupidity, ignorance of history and far leftist self loathing

        • Tom M

          Of course the Christian, empire building white races were doing these evil things when at the same time other races and empires were wringing their hands trying to get us to accept equality and the human rights act all the tenets of which they dutifully adhered to themselves. Oh how we destroyed their way of life.
          Yes I see it most days on the television how we’ve corrupted other cultures who behead people in public or do unspeakable things to their women.
          If only we had listened.

  • WatTylersGhost

    There is only one way to sort this out, gays vs straights ice hockey match, in the best physical Canadian tradition, Blood and teeth everywhere.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Careful. Did you not know that Mike Tyson is gay. Actually I just made that up. But there’s always Ronnie Kray. He’s MURDER them.

      • Kitty MLB

        Fergus ,Who is Ronnie Kray ?
        You said his name the other day
        David Niven might have been.
        and what Chap would go anywhere a brain dead thug like
        Tyson

        • Fergus Pickering

          Ronnie Kray was a famous murderer and gangster, one half of the Kray twins, a very tough nut and gay as the Gordons. A film was made about them. Not nice people to know, particularly Ronnie.though mny show business people did know them. A bit like Sinatra and the mafia. Google them if you can be bothered. David Niven? My world is rocked to its foundations.

          • Kitty MLB

            Thank You, Fergus.
            I might just pass up on the delightful opportunity of goggling
            him.
            Clearly not someone you would invite for dinner-
            unless you hid the knives- and made him eat by
            hand like they do inn the middle-east.
            I might Google Sinatra though.

          • Kitty MLB

            I was feeling somewhat disturbed about your world being
            rocked to its foundations.
            I have checked and can inform you that I was profoundly
            wrong. Not only was he a quintessentially English Gentleman, and as straight as a broom.
            and all his wives said he was not gay also..
            I clearly was thinking of Errol Flynn-
            Hope I have put your mind at rest 😉

            • Fergus Pickering

              You have, Kitty, you have.

              • Kitty MLB

                Well it gladdens the heart that the Dickensian gloom of disconsolation has been removed from your essence
                Fergus.
                Indeed David Niven was the perfect man, handsome, intelligent( I assume ) witty,
                gallant , charming, and straight, mind you he was not very faithful and men of that time, it was a case of ‘ do not worry
                your pretty little head , let men do the thinking’.
                George Osborne will improve quite well with time-
                women can always tell 😉

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            And Billie Whitelaw was excellent

          • MikeF

            The leadership of the Nazi’s paramilitary wing the Sturmabteilung (SA) was the proverbial ‘gay mafia’. But then Hitler shot them for wanting to take over the army – dreadful bit of ‘homophobia’ there.

      • GraveDave

        Wonnie, Weggie, and Chas,and not one of them (as far as I know) left an offspring.It’s also been suggested, by a number of psychologists, that the twins probably had an incestuous/ homosexual relationship throughout their adolescent years.

        • Tom Allalone

          I’d have loved to have seen a psychologist do it to their faces. And Charles Kray did have offspring – his grandson is doing life for murder.

          • GraveDave

            Fair enough. But why did Charley say (not long before he died) ‘ I’m the last of the Krays’? Are you sure the offspring isn’t a stepgrandson?

  • Curnonsky

    The bullying, intolerant, bigoted gay movement will only succeed in making Putin sympathetic – well done!

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Is it really the gay movement (whatever that is – do they pay a subscription?) It strikes me that the fuss has been got up by governments wanting to look progressive

  • Baron

    Rainbow logos? Too feeble a gesture.

    To show the muzhiks how forward thinking we really are, the boys in charge should rush a piece of legislation in the House making homosexuality compulsory. Everywhere in the world, and beyond. Arghhh.

  • Colonel Mustard

    “We don’t oppress people because of their sexuality.”

    Really?

    • alabenn

      You are right, it must be very hard for young white heterosexuals in this country to get equality with all the minorities, they do not have a clause 28 to rally against, they have a raft of detrimental laws to wade through.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Do you think the “We” refers to gays? Gray means the UK. I mean the UK.

        • alabenn

          Why would you think that I failed to understand the point, are you semantically autistic.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Because I failed to understand yours, without resorting to abusing you.

            • alabenn

              So maybe, self regarding semantically autistic, you choose not to understand, or you genuinely failed, I still wonder which.

              • Colonel Mustard

                I genuinely failed, sorry. But your abuse is unmistakeable.

    • Kitty MLB

      We pretend not too do so Colonel, but that is not the case,
      if it were not so then it would not be an issue.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Britain is obsessed with sexuality. I suspect we might be the country with the greatest number of Acts referring to it and criminalising various aspects of it, including now the criminalisation of fantasy and the aspirant criminalisation of lonely men who seek out prostitutes. In a previous generation homosexual acts were considered gross indecency, an aberration. That oppression has been lifted but it seems only at the expense of creating new oppressions to take its place.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          The Observer journalist Michael Davidson wrote a very frank memoir about his travels as a paedophile in the early 1960s. It was regarded by his colleagues with a kind of sympathy you reserve for unfortunates. Today he’d be killed by a lynch mob.

  • HookesLaw

    Boring and boorish.
    There would be no issue if the Russians were not so homophobic, Mr Gray.

  • Sam_Handwich

    Actually, conservatives in America have enacted laws, in Arizona and Utah for example, which prohibit school teachers from discussing homosexuality in any positive context. All are based on the same inane belief held by Putin and the Russian parliament that homosexuality is caused by propaganda.

    Stop whining and clean up your own homophobic mess in the GOP.

  • Ron Todd

    Another thing that will anger the liberals the olympic flag was carried by eight white Russians writers astronauts multiple gold medal winners a contrast to 2012

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