Coffee House

What the LibDems are up to

2 February 2014

3:30 PM

2 February 2014

3:30 PM

David Laws’ attack on his former BFF Michael Gove is leading the news bulletins today, and rightly. Its wider significance lies in that the Liberal Democrats have decided it’s time to start picking fights not just with Tories in general but Michael Gove in particular. So Gove, having offered all that hospitality to David Laws, finds the guy he thought was his clansman wield the dagger on the instructions of his commander. This isn’t quite Westmister’s equivalent of the Glencoe Massacre, but the dynamics of the coalition have changed – in precisely the way that James Forsyth outlines in his political column this week.

The LibDems’ support halved soon after they went into coalition. No point chasing these lefties, thought Nick Clegg, but at least I have five years to rebuild my party. From the centre, perhaps, making a genuine liberal party – one which may poach some Tory supporters. But just over a year from the next election, the poll (below) suggests that the LibDems have failed to rebuild. So it’s time to go back, pleading, to those leftie voters. Which means beating up a few Tories.

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A few weeks ago, the Liberal Democrats conducted some private polling suggesting that, if they wanted to defend their seats (the most they can hope for having lost half of their voters) they needed to start picking on Gove – because he’s their enemy no1. John Rentoul explained it all in a blog. He said:-

The LibDem research found that the most effective way to win back public sector workers – presumably mostly from Labour – is to attack Michael Gove by name. So far, Clegg has been too coalition-minded to go for direct confrontation with a fellow Cabinet minister. I wonder how long such restraint will last.

Well, it didn’t last too long. We can now expect wars to be declared over relatively trivial issues (like who should be the part-time chairman of Ofsted) on a regular basis. You may wonder why Gove be hated by LibDems more than, say, George Osborne. The answer is the nature (and success) of his reform. They have been about empowering parents at the expense of local government bureaucrats – many of whom are LibDems (or were, until the LibDems started getting massacred at local elections or defecting to Labour).

The irony is that Gove has a huge regard for Laws – I’ve heard him in private occasions saying how pleased he has been reform schools with such a talented and like-minded politician. I suspect Laws quite likes Gove too, but he’s under orders now not to. The great Lib Dem mutiny has begun.

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Show comments
  • Iain Hill

    Yawn! Oh for the election now!

  • Lady Magdalene

    Time for someone to start investigating Laws’ current and historical expense claims a bit more thoroughly.

    • Fred Scuttle

      And Gove’s

  • Peter Stroud

    What an utterly useless shower, are these LibDems. They have no loyalty to allies, and still hope to get a few seats by back stabbing. Clegg is the worst offender.

  • Fergus Pickering

    And much good may it do them all. The Libdems are increasingly idiotic. And yet Laws is an intelligent man.

  • Rossspeak

    Spot on analysis – and just the start of many “fabricated rows” over the next 16 months to “distance” the Libdems from the Tories.
    History will show the 2010 election as the watershed – if Cameron hadn’t been so desperate for power – he could have gone for a “minority Government” – had to have fought ( and lost) another election to Lab/Lib coalition -( which would have failed) – but could haveshot the UKIP fox by GUARANTEEING an in/out EU referendum – and won an election ( about now??).
    He will sink ignominiously after next year’s election – which Labour will win despite all the hard work and gains Osborne has achieved on the economy – but, above all, condemn Britain to the worst, and least prepared, Socialist administration that this Country will have ever had to suffer.

    Well done, DC!!

  • Mynydd

    You have to laugh, we now have Conservative and Lib Dem ministers at each other throats over the treatment of a Labour peer. You couldn’t make it up. What a way to run a government.

  • ohforheavensake

    The other explanation is that Gove’s done this without consulting- & lets face it, it wouldn’t be the first time- and Laws is genuinely aggrieved.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Gove is Laws’ boss. Laws is Gove’s subordinate. Gove has no need to consult with him. He tells him what he wants. Of course I expect he did discuss the matter and now Laws is denying it. Truth and the Libdems are ever strangers.

  • David Booth.

    It seems that the LibDims can’t now see a back without wanting to knife it!
    As Terry Thomas would say “What an utter shower.”

  • Nick Name

    No political commentator who genuinely thinks that UKIP are going to overtake the Lib Dems at the general election can be taken seriously.

    Folk might genuinely want to vote for Farage but when they realise they actually have to vote for the old blowhard who lives in the local they’ll swiftly reconsider.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …care to put down some cash on that boasting, lad?

  • Bluesman_1

    This is what happens when a proven thief like Laws is allowed a role in government.

  • Rockin Ron

    Gove is a journalist so I expect favouritism from the Fourth Estate, such as this uncritical acclamation:

    ‘…..the nature (and success) of his reform.’

    Er… what success is that then? The return of O Levels (failed), the restructuring of exam boards (failed), improvements in educational achievement against other countries (failed), Free Schools (a pointless posturing to middle class parents and extremist groups that has done little to address the decline in education standards), a platform for the likes of Toby Young (pass).

    The truth about Michael Gove is that he may be a decent person, but he is out of his depth in trying to deliver real change, because he has based his interventions on structural reform rather than improving teaching standards. This deadly error will haunt Gove who has had twice as long as most Education Ministers to address poor quality of teachers, something he said he was determined to do before taking office. I think he found this was going to be too difficult quite quickly and that partly explains his fixation with Free Schools.

    So, of course, for the Left, Gove is a prime target. And don’t forget he has been outed as an expenses cheat and someone keen to bomb Damascus at the behest of the Americans. Not a great record is it?

    • Alexsandr

      so what did Labour achieve in education in 13 years, besides dumbing down our exams

  • Alexsandr

    I hope labour situp and notice so if they are in a position to create a coalition with the limp dumps in 2015, they think again about going to bed with such a bunch of perfidious backstabbing fools.

  • John_Page

    The electorate at large won’t even notice

  • Ciaran_J_Goggins

    How come Laws dishonestly trousered £40K in a false expenses claim and is back whereas McShane got six months bird? Is it cos he is gay?

    • Fred Scuttle

      Gove fiddled too. 7 grand I believe.

      • Rockin Ron

        Yep, fancy lamps I believe.

    • DerekGHaslam

      How come “Joe Poulton” trousered £4K a month as a paid perjurer?

      • Ciaran_J_Goggins

        That’s nothing, I get £72 a week Job Seekers plus housing benefit for doing absolutely nothing, and I have not worked since being released from prison ten years ago.

        • DerekGHaslam

          The occupant of 9, Lynn Rd, PE38 wil find himself “with the bacons” soon.

          • Alexsandr

            eh?

            • Ciaran_J_Goggins

              He is an internet troll Alex with a number of serious mental health issues he has managed to reach the age of fifty three years without achieving anything other that a reputation as a complete……….cont p.9

            • DerekGHaslam

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Daily-Agenda/205209586166021

              Check out P C Haslam’s Dad and death threats. Nottingham Police involved and now Norfolk (reluctantly).

              • CiaranAcarnt

                Are you a troll because you are talking bow locks pal.

    • HookesLaw

      It was not a false claim – he claimed a legitimate expense for accomodation. He was not for instance fraudulently claiming for something that did not exist – ie a criminal offence, like McShane.
      He now legitimately charges a lot more at our expense just to satisfy your sense of outrage.

  • Mynydd

    At one time it was dinner at No 10 with Dave and Sam, now it seems it’s Ofsted, or Ogem what about Ofwat, just take your pick.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Labour Troll please ignore.

      • Mynydd

        No I am from CCHQ and writing what Mr Crosby tells me

  • Kitty MLB

    A correction_I meant the Stewarts were friends.

  • Kitty MLB

    Am I correct in the assumtion that this battle
    Was known as ‘The murder of trust’?
    How very fitting.
    This obviously makes David Laws that shambles
    of a man Robert Cambell,who attacked the McDonalds
    at night whilst they were asleep with daggers in the back
    sums up the utter treachery of the Lib Dems.
    I am wondering though.Who will be the Cambells ?
    What friends are left?
    The Lib Dems are a truly dispicable bunch, not the
    friendly tree huggers that people assume they are,
    the sooner they are in electoral oblivion the better.

    • Kitty MLB

      Ooops ! I thought I had better mention it again-
      as its too far down the page- Who will be the Stewarts-
      Camroons do not have many friends-
      Maybe it will be the back benchers.i will not hold my breath.

  • Dogzzz

    This is a fantastic opportunity for the tories to grow some balls and give those vile, treacherous lib dems a kicking, whilst differentiating themselves from the lefties in labour and the lib-dems.

    If UKIP can steal even more of the patriotic aspirational working class vote from labour and the Liberal Democrats can steal more PC or Blairite votes from labour, as labour lurch ever more leftwards, then if the tories give this country a genuinely right wing alternative, with a promise of an EU referendum in a government bill, an end to the green crap, real cuts in immigration and a restoration of patriotism (all virtually guaranteed to NOT happen under Cameron), then the tories could win enough votes to win a majority.

    Sadly, for the tories, I cannot see them taking this opportunity to differentiate themselves and become proud tories again. I am sure that we will enter the 2015 election with three establishment parties chasing the centre left, politically correct pro EU, pro climate alarm, pro immigration vote.

    • Conway

      A lot of ifs there! You are right, there are three parties with the same policies. Time for a change.

    • Fergus Pickering

      There is no need at all to kick any libdem. They are self-destructing without any help at all.

  • Parson_Russell

    It’s pathetic. I thought they were supposed to represent our interests.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      In theory yes but we are talking about the most disloyal scumbags from the ranks of the 655 most selfish, nasty and greedy people in the country.

  • BarkingAtTreehuggers

    Why don’t they call Vitali and Yanukovych, Taki and that wife beating Iraqi, and make it a three-act all-nighter?

  • Nicholas chuzzlewit

    What else would you expect from a party of petulant, disloyal frauds desperate to hide the last nail before it can be hammered, deservedly, into their electoral coffin.

    • Kitty MLB

      Indeed its also about time that Cameron forgot
      about his’Rose Garden’ moment with Cleggie
      When they sat like a pair of slugs on a English
      rose.
      The Lib Dems are political serpents and not
      Daves little buddies I hope Cameron takes
      the gloves off very soon but he is no Robert the Bruce
      Cameron lacks courage and backbone.

      • Fergus Pickering

        And he didn’t murder anyone in a church either.

        • Kitty MLB

          Yes indeed, Fergus. I believe that is also very true.
          So much for Robert the Bruce plotting against Edward.
          The other set of documents that were found state a very different story, apparently the ‘murder’ was some kind of
          trap to gain Scotland, and to set up Bruce.
          Yet Edward had no knowledge of treachery of Bruce-
          anything else that was said is a despicable lie.
          I will mention that I have a exquisitely fond memory
          of a very handsome person called Hamish, we used to forever chat about various battles, as well as comparing
          mountains in the highlands, lake district and my beloved
          Dolomites.
          Hamish also introduced me to the very beautiful
          Lower Diabaig on Loch Torridon – enchanting!

          • Fergus Pickering

            I get all my facts about Bruce from an old book. Did you also know he died of leprosy, or so they said, at the age of fifty? A most interesting figure.

            • Kitty MLB

              I heard something rather vague about that but
              the modern interpretation is that it may have been Syphillis-
              either way poor chap- I thought he also died much younger
              then that.
              You mention Leprosy, I was quite shocked to learn it still
              exists today, I know someone’s whose daughter
              went to India in her gap year, ( a few years ago) before studying to become
              a doctor and was helping people in a leper hospital,
              she fell in love with the country and remains to this day-
              I was just shocked to here of such a ghastly disease still existing.
              Also, are you also aware that because of all the flooding
              we are having and various other reasons that the plague
              may return.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Yes, I had heard that about the plague, but presumed it was another ghastly thing that isn’t going to happen.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I do profoundly apologise, Fergus.
                  I appear to be the voice of doom today,
                  if its not about ‘Islamophobia’, its about the plague ( I shall try
                  and find out more about that) next it will be floods,
                  locusts, civil unrest and the riders of the apocalypse.
                  If you are one of those softy city- dwellers, then move to
                  somewhere more spacious if I were you.
                  Well I had better, disappear off into our flooded wilderness for now- assuming the car does not get stuck.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I am next to the great Blean Forest. I shall disappear thereinto.

                • Kitty MLB

                  The Blean Forest, sounds like a very enchanting place.
                  We have the most wonderful ancient woodlands in this country. I am a little familiar with beautiful Canterbury- not too keen on the M25
                  though! I once went around and around for an entire day nearly. We just have lots of treacherous lanes down here.
                  Also,whilst disappearing, escaping the plague Fergus, do be careful
                  forests contain other cretins:
                  Such as cadaverous greenies worshipping
                  wild celery and execrable Lib Dems partaking
                  in nefarious activities.
                  I suppose you could always throw apples at them
                  especially the charmingly named Kentish, Bascombe’s Mystery Apple- We have never found them, unfortunately.
                  I shall disappear off again.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Never saw a greeny. A lot of dogs though

    • MikeBrighton

      I would like nothing more than the lib dems to have zero MPs after the next election. Well a Ukip majority government but it’s a close call…

      • FuglydeQuietzapple

        Two disappointments!

        • MikeBrighton

          I have now asked twice that you kindly stop trolling me. This is my third request.

  • HookesLaw

    Having shot one foot off the Lib Dems have aimed a shotgun at the other. As the BBC itself is forced to report – ‘the former Labour adviser Simon Stevens is about to take up the post of Chief Executive of NHS England.’

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Gove has an outstanding political future as Conservative leader and PM: Laws only a ‘what might have been’ political past. His political career ended when he deliberately claimed a link between Clegg’s loony HoL reform and constituency size equalisation.

    Laws suffers from exceptional ‘little man syndrome’. He should have studied biology, then he’d realise that Darwinism (Gove’s reforms) invariably beats Marxism (Laws/Hunt/NUT/NAS/UWT’s’ preferred solutions)

    • southerner

      This is the hilarious pretence at differentiation yet they are all socialists cut from the same cloth.

      “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”.

    • Andy

      Most of the public think Laws is no better than a common thief. And as for Clegg, well. . . . . .

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        I think petulant, idiotic, disgusting little fraud are the words you are looking for.

        • Andy

          You are very mild this afternoon Mr Chuzzlewit.

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Agreed but Ireland are thrashing Scotland and so my mood has improved after my beloved England were beaten by France.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Ireland vs Scotland is always a difficult call for me, knowing that they can’t both lose.

              • Fergus Pickering

                The Scots can lose for both of them. It’s curious how much their rugby has gone downhill in the last forty years. When I was a boy they actually won the championship once or twice.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                Just think of Salmond and the mind clears and a decision is made.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Indeed, I wonder what El Presidente is plotting now.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Very little. I doubt if the pain of being kicked repeatedly and very very hard in the ‘crown jewels’ by Mr Carney has subsided yet.

  • Northerner1001

    Nothing has changed! So the Lib Dems will shout & ball for a few days then they’ll be back at their masters side. They are cowards but can’t see this coalition is slowly but surely destroying their party. Laws is a tory in all but name & he shouldn’t even be in the govt. The crook used public money to cover up his private life!

    Roll on May 2015 for their day of reckoning!

    • ButcombeMan

      Gove will enjoy this and not take it seriously.

      He seems to thrive in adversity.

      Could it possibly be that Laws thinks he has a chance of replacing Clegg?

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        He really ought to be replacing Huhn in prison.

      • southerner

        Your fawning admiration from the Blairite Gove is misplaced unless you are a Cameron luvvie un-conservative.

        • ButcombeMan

          I said nothing about what I think of Gove. I stated what his atitude will be.
          Gove wears criticism like a medal.

          That is what makes him interesting.

          I am more interested in Laws motives

        • Fergus Pickering

          Do you mean ‘of’. You people have a lot of trouble with English, don’t you? Are you actually a Romanian gypsy?

          • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

            Or German and he translated ‘von’?

            • Fergus Pickering

              That’s a thought. I hadn’t considered that.

      • Fergus Pickering

        You call this adversity? I would have thought he’s on to a winner here.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    If Laws is unhappy he should resign.

    • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

      Only his immediate family would notice. He was put there by Clegg to limit and restrict Gove’s reforms.

      That’s 3 highly thought-of politicians’ reputations Gove has destroyed in a few months – Hunt’s, :Laws and Mrs Dromey’s.

      [Prescott never had any ability, so his rubbishing doesn’t count]

      • southerner

        His boyfriend might like him round the house more often.

        • CiaranJGoggins

          That’s true, did he ever pay the £40K back he fiddled on expenses?

    • telemachus associates

      Laws is happy.
      As Mr Nelson says he is under orders.
      The problem is Gove.
      Why?
      As my good friend has posted on many occasions Gove is wielding an educational stick to make a political point.
      He is using children as a weapon of his social engineering. His fervent hope remains that his Free Schools will induce parents to pull their children out of Local Authority Schools.
      These latter schools will decline over years.
      What about his duty of care to the children left behind?
      Gove does not actually care.
      He cares about the headlines and his actual goal to replace soft right Cameron.
      He will fail in that too. Sadly he is not telegenic.

      • grutchyngfysch

        “He is using children as a weapon of his social engineering.”

        I’m going to assume you must be 16, because if you think the current policies are atrociously cynical social engineering, you would have had a field day with the previous lot.

        • Kitty MLB

          Well said Social engineering is what Labour were doing
          for 13 years, educating children to make them suitable to receive benefits and vote Labour, they were never thinking of future taxpayers.
          As we know this was all part of Blair’ s ‘ diversity’
          make everyone as ignorant as each other, so that we can
          give the better educated immigrants a job instead.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Evidently you are under instructions from the odious telemachus to subject this blog to the same level of unwanted harassment whilst he is away just to ensure there is no respite from his Labour-sponsored tripe.

        And like that troll you have clearly never read anything Gove has written about the subject. Much easier to slag him off with scripted lies about what he is trying to achieve than to argue the alternative – the slough of despond that Labour conceive for education.

        Your little game is pointless. The rest of the brainless Borg might cheer you on cue but for those who know and understand what the Labour party is really about your lies won’t make a jot of difference.

        • Andy

          Is telemachus in Prison ?

          • David Booth.

            Only I suspect the self imposed prison of his own ignorance.

          • Kitty MLB

            Where is Telemuchus, son of Odysseus.
            Prehaps trapped and imprisonsed on
            some on some island .
            He will miss ED Balls .

          • ButcombeMan

            Normally he goes to the Caribbean at this time of year.

            • McRobbie

              The caribbean is not big enough for him and bob the crowing man.

              • Kitty MLB

                No he would much prefer a dark clandestine socialist den ,
                somewhere in
                Eastern Europe, where they will all sit around spitting bile.

          • Colonel Mustard

            The troll who rails against the iniquities of capitalism and profit making boasted that he was about to embark on a “another trade mission” and would not be with us.

          • CharlietheChump

            Oh please, can it be true, our beloved Comrade consigned to the gulag?

            • Andy

              Long as it is the condemned cell in Wandsworth Prison we will all be very happy.

      • Alexsandr

        Maybe gove thinks schools are for the kids benefit, not for NUT and UAS/UWT members.

        • 2trueblue

          You might have a point! After 13yrs. of downgrading education, taking all aspiration out of the system under Liebore, the Tories with Gove are upgrading our educational system.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Alternatively, mr Gove is scouring the ignorant, leeching filth of socialism from the British education system. You seem a worthy representative of Telemachus equally dedicated to mediocrity and failure the twin totems of the Labour Party. Labour the party of lies, lying and liars. Now get lost.

      • ButcombeMan

        #He is using children as a weapon of his social engineering”
        *****************

        Coming from someone like you that is a bare faced cheek. Have you no shame?

        The leftists and Guardianistas have been using children in an ideological war for years and years. At the same time they have been stealing a decent education from many of them and ensuring diminished social mobility.

        Why SHOULD a good education depend so much on the money parents have? Why does Labour believe in that?

        The reason Gove gets so much hatred, is that is he attempting to turn the tide.

        I do not agree with everything, but in his core effort, more strength to his arm.

      • Fergus Pickering

        What on earth is telemachus associates? Can it be that it needs more than one person to produce this tripe?

        • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

          Fergus, that could well be — just think of the immense strain. I mean: could YOU churn it out without resorting to a thousand G&Ts? How did you get on with the lime? I’ve tried lime with it but prefer lemon, myself.

          • Fergus Pickering

            I could only churn it out if I were blind drunk and terminally stupid. Lemon? Lime?

            • Kitty MLB

              When people become Lefties all sense and reason
              is removed when they are lobotomised, and yet they
              still manage to find likeminded people, it seems
              ignorance likes company!
              Also, as far as becoming ‘blind drunk’
              especially when drinking Cromwell Gin is concerned.
              Not only will you have a muddled head , but you
              will also obviously become a roundhead,
              so heed my warning I beseech thee, this place is
              is full of Cavaliers such as the Colonel and the Major.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Wrong but Wromantic, eh? Naw. I’m a Cromwell man. Charles the First was such a twit. And Cromwell like good eating and drinking. He’s the man.warts and all.

                Also saw off the Scots and the Dutch.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Before you poke me on the nose with that very sharp and well used sword of yours,
                  I have not stated my own allegiance. I just pointed out
                  two other gentlemen here would have been loyal
                  to Charles, who incidentally I believe was a powdered
                  puffed up, pigeon livered mule, and probably a total bore.
                  Just do not blow up parliament, you may end up
                  in the Tower of London and will probably scare off the ravens.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I would not dream of doing such a thing, Kitty. Our parliament is the best in the world, partly due to the fact that they do not sit in a half moon like the audience for some sort of tenth rate theatre..They are the actors.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I am very relieved to here that,
                  besides I do not think the gunpowder would actually work with
                  all this wet weather.
                  I wholeheartedly agree,
                  our parliament is the best in the world, and the most historic.
                  If certain MP’s leave to join El Presidente I hope they will
                  also realise that.

            • CharlietheChump

              Forget the fruit and stick another shot of gin in!

          • Kitty MLB

            Lime is so far more better then lemon.
            By the way, noticed what you said in the Telegraph-
            I do not post there
            Utterly disagree with you about that Murderess Knox( and not because of being Half English and half Italian)
            She is so manipulative, appearing in pastels to look soft!
            that Anti American and Anti English fool Obama ( I preferred Romsey) must send her to Italy or Cameron must insist.
            Perhaps we will agree to disagree on this one.

            • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

              You don’t jail someone for being manipulative and wearing pastels, Kitty.

              Kercher’s rapist and killer was found, arrested, and jailed on overwhelming evidence. The Italian witch-hunt has gone on far too long, as it is.

              • Kitty MLB

                I did not say she should be in jail for being manipulative
                or wearing pastels
                She is doing that to get sympathy ‘ all sweetness, light and apple pie’- hard faced when the camera is not on her! She is not the victim here, that happens
                to be the beautiful girl whose in her grave.
                America is a religious and moral country, I hope they see through her lies.
                I think this is a subject we will have to agree to disagree on.
                I find the whole thing very upsetting, and I am not going to read anymore about it .

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  What would you have her do, Kitty: dress up as a witch? And again, the victim’s killer is in jail. He clearly has nothing to do with the two young people that have served time unjustly in this case.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I was on Amanda Knox’s side to start with,
                  I just thought it was just a very religious country
                  being judgemental against a promiscuous young woman.
                  Then I started learning more and more about the case,
                  and what witnesses, those who knew Knox and the prison guards were saying about her, and I am also aware
                  of the legal system in Italy.
                  There were three of them, that chap from the ivory coast
                  Knox and the Italian boy, who was captured trying to escape
                  to Switzerland, he has now been captured- perhaps
                  eventually he will bring some light on the subject.
                  Also a Law professor from one of your big universities
                  has said, if this new inquiry she wants, finds her guilty,
                  then she will just have to go-
                  Its a pity she was not tried in the UK, or the US ( I know that was not possible) and she should be grateful she was not tried in the US, at least Italy does not have the death penalty.
                  We are not going to agree on this, so could we agree to disagree.

          • Kitty MLB

            Correction- Romney.

      • CharlietheChump

        The “children left behind” will find themselves with the enviable opportunity to attend new Free Schools with high standards, expectations and achievement and the rump of dogmatic, left run establishments will be consigned to the dust bin having failed numerous generations over 50 years.

    • Ciaran_J_Goggins

      He should not even be back as an MP £40K fiddle.

      • DerekGHaslam

        I am a kiddie fiddler but due to my membership of “Service & Integrity” Lodge cannot be arrested!

        • Ciaran_G_Peckerhead

          I am a rapist and the author of The British Cottaging Scene.

    • MikeBrighton

      Laws should actually be in jail for fraud.

      • FuglydeQuietzapple

        No. If that was a feasible scenario some kipper richbastard would have ensured it. You should be sued for libel, but no-zone is bothered …

        • MikeBrighton

          I have already asked you to kindly stop trolling me, this is my second request.

          For something to be a libel it has to be untrue. It is a fact that Mr. Laws claimed more that £40,000 in housing expenses for a house he shared with his partner. Should Mr. Laws wish to sue me for libel and contacts me here I will very happily provide my name and address for him to do so given his chance of success is absolutely zero and to say he should be in jail is fair comment.

          • FuglydeQuietzapple

            As I suggested he wouldn’t consider you worth bothering with. Btw if your lie that he should be in jail is fair comment your scared little rejoinder looks serious to me.

            In my view it is a great pity that politicians rarely sue, the untruths of such as yourself would be made plain and the use of nuanced English much improved.

            • MikeBrighton

              It is not me that is following you and responding to every comment you make! You need to get a life and stop trolling me.
              I recognise your youth but kindly allow me to explain how the law works.
              1) For something to be a libel it has to be a statement that is both untrue and injurous to a persons reputation and public standing, for example accusing the late Lord McAlpine for being a child abuser when he was not.
              2) To say someone should be in jail for an act they have committed is not a libel, it is an act of commentary and protected under that law as “fair comment”. For example saying that as someone has done X he should be prosecuted and jailed.
              Where is the lie? Are you denying that Mr Laws obtained £40,000 contrary to the expense policy of his employer, an act in my opinion that is fraud through false accounting. Very similar to the offence commited by Denis McShane for which he was imprisoned. As you see that is fair comment backed up by legal precenence in the case of McShane.
              If you accept that he took the £40K (which Mr Laws does not deny), then to say he should be prosecuted and jailed is smply opinion.

              • FuglydeQuietzapple

                Read the last para, nope, not unless your legal opinion is founded in a body of professional knowledge. As it is it is merely petty spite, based on your nasty politics and homophobia. Crawl elsewhere.

                • MikeBrighton

                  You will have to point me at where the homophobia is. I haven’t even raised the fact that Mr. Laws is gay and nor do I care. I live just outside Brighton where you just have to throw a rock and it’s likely you’ll hit a gay guy. Laughable insults when you lose a debate.
                  My legal opinion is founded on a body of law athough I must confess commercial and contractual rather that civil litigation. But I suggest my left toe nail knows more about the law than you clearly do.
                  It’s not petty spite to point out that Laws amongst many other MPs of all parties fiddled their expenses and to draw inference from that. Although I must point out that only Labour MPs have been jailed.
                  I will no longer reply to your trolling as it’s y a w n boring having a battle of wits with the singulalry unarmed and I must go and earn my huge salary and bonus. Cheers !

                • FuglydeQuietzapple

                  Glad to see you whinge on so tediously and fib as ever. Anyone would think you are pretending to be an unemployed solicitor articled clerk. See your piffle around …

                • MikeBrighton

                  To break my rule…god you are stupid. Hanningfield and Taylor are peers. They are NOT MPs, just to repeat so you are clear NOT MPs. So only Labour MPs have been jailed, no Tory MPs. That’s a pretty material data point on the honesty of Labour MPs.

                  Although many Tory MPs have behaved disgracefully and should have been prosecuted as well.

                • FuglydeQuietzapple

                  How stupid to pretend that Hanningfield and Taylor weren’t MPs when they are members of a House of Parliament! Verbosely abused too, twit!

                  Cameron even attended the Wintertons’ leaving do, they were among the biggest crooks to evade prosecution, their daughter has a free flat as proceeds.

                  Did you defend the Ukip MEPs who served time? Was it for FRAUD?

    • CharlietheChump

      All LibDems should resign and force an election now. And farewell to them all, though they can’t all find new jobs at the Guardian from where they can lecture us on loyalty.

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