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Katie Hopkins: A liberal arts degree is a waste of time

14 February 2014

10:58 AM

14 February 2014

10:58 AM

Let’s face it. Most of us aren’t all that bright. Sixteen per cent of us have an IQ below 85 – that’s about the level of intelligence you need to need to drink through a straw. And even a high IQ is no a guarantee of success. According to a study cited by Professor Joan Freedman in The Gifted Child, only six from a sample of 210 ultra bright children turned out to be successful adults.

So, even those blessed with an abundance of grey matter can stuff things up royally on contact with real world things such as parking meters or women who cry a lot. In a busy office with a bunch of invoices to process, and difficult people to manage, a grasp of Homer and a Grade 8 Distinction in the Harp are about as useful as a giraffe to a Copenhagen zoo.

What we need, then, is an education system — and particularly a higher education system — that first and foremost equips the majority of the workforce with useful skills. The Liberal Arts, by which we mean non-vocational, non-technical, non-professional university degrees, just don’t do that. Like sex or chocolate, time spent pondering life with a whimsical expression is an indulgence. Don’t get me wrong — I am a liberal arts fan. My enduring love for Boris Johnson is built on my belief he can speak Latin and Greek fluently. And even as an atheist, I follow Papal tweets in Latin. I haven’t a clue what he is banging on about, but it lifts my spirits.

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Liberal arts are perfect if you are Boris and have the personality to disseminate the wisdom you have garnered with the verbosity of a man firing on semi-automatic. If you have a fondness for your own reflection and sound of your own voice, they are also valuable. The aptly named Mr. Self, who I’ll be debating on this subject next month, is testament to this.

But if you are Dwayne from inner city Hull, growing up in a tough council estate with limited life chances – the liberal arts are about as useful as a pink jumper. It is the technical colleges that fulfill an essential function. They can transform young people into employees fit for business. Students can study part time, work within the college serving customers and spend a considerable part of their student career working with employers keen to hire them in the future.

For graduates, creating a budget for Q1 or Q2 is not a simple task unless you have a basic grasp of business strategy and finance. Compiling a spreadsheet to track product volumes is easier if you know how to make spreadsheets. It’s not sophisticated, or sexy, but it is important. Theorising, philosophising and scientific endeavour are noble pursuits — but they can be pursued later, after you have learned how to get on in life. In a world driven by business, in which individuals must make money, whether we like it or not, A Liberal Arts Degree is  for the vast majority of us, a waste of time and money. And I dare you to say otherwise, Mr Self.


The next Spectator debate: ‘A liberal arts education is a waste of time and money.’ Katie Hopkins, Will Self, Anthony Seldon and Julia Hobsbawm will go head-to-head on 4 March. Click here to book tickets.

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Show comments
  • Rose

    If we only teach subjects that are practical we will lose western civilization.

    One of the problems is the minimum wage. If we could learn on the job (companies can pay less while the person learns because they aren’t yet capable of making the company enough money to justify a higher wage), then you wouldn’t have to learn so many hard skills in college. College is supposed to teach you to think.

    Another issue is that we have stopped teaching logic (it is there, but no one has to take it). We don’t require much science or math of our liberal arts students (by the way, math is a liberal art). Also, too many liberal arts programs have devolved into discussions on how to solve current social problems.

  • AviationHead

    A degree in economics (such as hers) is somewhere in between a liberal arts degree and a social science degree …i.e also a complete waste of time.

    Come back when you have an engineering degree Katie, maybe then we can take you seriously.

  • DwayneFromHull

    I like my pink jumper
    And Katie Hopkins, you lack the necessary experience or sympathy , to comment constructively on the my experience of higher education.

  • Caitlin Hamilton

    My school (Scottish state) focussed on getting the smartest into university, and ignored the other students. I think schools need to start teaching arithmetic separately from maths and basic life skills such as finance management instead of putting . Everyone would benefit from them.

  • swatnan

    Katie Hopkins is a waste of space and a fruitcake. She needs to listen and stop interruptimng people when they are speaking. Awful woman.

  • Marie Louise Noonan

    A liberal arts degree? Do you mean the humanities?

    ‘A Liberal Arts degree is one of the strongest models of undergraduate education across North America, both in small Liberal Arts colleges and bigger universities. It combines breadth with depth, and generally includes various course requirements, such as language study.’

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    What do you say to a Liberal Arts graduate?
    A Big Mac and a portion of fries.

  • roma1950

    such an unpleasent women with the IQ of a bed bug,but nastier.and the charm of
    a cobra.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      Why is she famous again? She doesn’t seem to have any abilities or talents that raise her above the common herd.

  • Rossspeak

    What a lot of vitriol pouring out to attack an article that makes perfectly valid points.
    Education in today’s competitive world cannot afford to have a primary function of ” broadening the mind” – OK in times of full employment when less than 10% of students went to University and a degree ( of pretty much any type) was a guarantee of employment.
    Not any more – with the ludicrous target of 50% of students to enter “higher education” – we have condemned a large number of students to study useless degree courses and incur massive debts.
    We need many more highly skilled tradespeople – hence the apocryphal joke:-
    ” What do you say to someone with a Media Studies degree? – Big Mac and chips please”.

    • pearlsandoysters

      A way too many “soft” degrees do immense harm to the higher education.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      It’s ‘big mac and fries’ because a ‘liberal arts degree’ is an American thing.

  • Monima O’Connor

    I love Katie too. She says what we all think but don’t say put loud as it is unPC. Bring it on Katie !!

  • meliorist

    Katie Hopkins is obviously correct on this one. Liberal arts degrees were invented for the gentry, for whom a useful education was not important, but the skills of a raconteur were. It’s of no use to most of the population, who need to work for a living. It’s blind, unthinking snobbery that makes the nation think it needs tens of thousands of new graduates in humanities every year.

    • pearlsandoysters

      Liberal Arts degree has much more honorable pedigree than you suspect. Liberal Arts Department was a typical part of the Medieval University. The members of aristocracy for many centuries tended to read law or divinity.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        We’re not talking about a former pedigree. We’re talking about the mangy mongrel of today.

        • pearlsandoysters

          Modern style “mangy mongrel”, though deplorable as such, actually serves a function to bring about people, who should, though not necessarily can articulate modern-style vague and confused conceptions of what’s “a good life”. Unfortunately, poor souls are so confused by all things post & structuralist or social & media that they have not got a clue as to what it that they should articulate.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Hopefully no offense, but that tortured post is perfect exemplar of the problem.

            • pearlsandoysters

              Any better now? I wouldn’t say that your posts are beyond reproach with “mangy mongrel” being particularly impressive.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                No, actually, it’s worse now. You’ve attached that fatalistic and post-modern touch that so perfects your exemplar of the problem. That post needs a flea bath.

                Oh and reproach away, lad.

                • pearlsandoysters

                  Let it be known that I am a firm opponent of all things post-modern, in case you missed this bit. Methinks, that so-called “post-modern” is a pure poison & deeply anti-human. I am into the Antique philosophy, if you catch my drift.
                  P.S.
                  However, if you are inclined to find fault with everyone around… without reservations or second thoughts, it exposes ignorance, not insight.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, it’s the mark of post-modernism to deny itself, while building battalions of strawmen, such as your “Humanities null and void” nonsense.

                  Your P.S. is just classic. You’re too obtuse to see how it is that you represent the problem, but you do.

                • pearlsandoysters

                  Dear the viceroy’s gin! It’s blindingly obvious that you are enjoying using ad hominem argument & I can assure you that you are overdoing it. Enjoy your gin & your thorough knowledge of post-modernism.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …and to completely remove and replace that previous post was just a masterpiece of postmodernism. Talk about shedding structure and form and dogma. I doff my chapeau, lad.

                • pearlsandoysters

                  I bet you have a degree in the said Liberal Arts with specialization in post-modernism. I am blissfully unaware of the tricks you describe in a perfect academic drivel. I also feel rightful indignation at you perverse “reading”or would you prefer “de/post constructing” my posts. I vehemently protest against such “reading” or whatever you call it, once I am passionate about the Classical philosophy & deem modern Lib Art gibberish an insult to intelligence. I normally nail my colours to the mast, prefer lucid style & respect reasonable debate. The post in question was not up to good standards of clarity, that’s it.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You’d lose your bet.

                  But it’s splendid postmodern taqiyya you layer on, lad.

                • pearlsandoysters

                  I wouldn’t, once you are obviously all too familiar with all that post-modern wishful thinking.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, you would. It’s about reality, lad. You postmodernists don’t do well with that, yes.

                • pearlsandoysters

                  The recent arguments sound funny and childish. I declare your opinions as expressed in your posts to be null & void, once it’s not possible to have a reasonable discussion with someone, who’s only pursuit is exposing personal tantrums for lack of substantial things to say.
                  DON’T ANSWER!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, you postmodernists are good about making declarations, higgledy piggledy, pulled down out of the air, apropos of nothing.

          • meliorist

            What do you mean, “in the absence of a better alternative”? Better alternatives to immersing yourself in a fug of hot air for three or four years for the sake of a degree in literature, history or the like, include science, mathematics, engineering, and professional subjects such as medicine. These are far more rigorous training for the mind, as well as having greater practical utility.

      • meliorist

        I am well aware that the modern Liberal Arts degree claims heritage from the Medieval age, but that doesn’t necessarily make Liberal Arts degree a good thing. In Medieval times, what was called a Liberal Arts degree included logic, grammar (of Latin and Greek), music and mathematics (mainly geometry, because most of the mathematics that undergraduates might study today hadn’t been invented yet), classical history, philosophy and literature, and, of course, theology. Science, as we know it, didn’t exist. The training that the universities offered was designed to equip a person for a career in law, the priesthood, administration, and medicine. Training for science, engineering or business was not offered. University education was more or less exclusively available to the offspring of the gentry, so the restricted curriculum did not matter.

        Today, what remains of the Liberal Arts is the hermeneutical study of texts – mainly of modern texts of history, philosophy and literature. The scant mathematics and science that humanities undergraduates learned in school is allowed to be forgotten. All that hermeneutical study has no real use at all. It’s 99% hot air. A small minority who become teachers and academics use it in their jobs. For everyone else, it’s just a badge of middle class status, and the time could have been better spent studying statistics (a subject that really matters, and that all professionals in every field need to understand), or something practical.

        • pearlsandoysters

          Astronomy & music were also studied at the Medieval Universities. The great thinkers were well steeped in Theology & Philosophy, thus able to make serious breakthroughs. The very term pre-scientific sounds strange, since science was pursued since the days of Ancient Greece, not to mention Renaissance and its great thinkers. Rene Decarte’s method was developed as a response to scholastic thought and his method was originally treated with suspicion. What I mean is that there’s no serious opposition between so called “natural sciences” and “arts” at all. It’s just a modern compartmentalization that makes people poise questions about the utility of “arts”. Columbia University currently tries to bridge the gap, which is commendable. In my humble opinion, the liberal arts suffered from injection of “statistics” into their midst. Statistics is basically an excellent tool of manipulation in technocratic world, otherwise why the army of statistically literate, well trained economists failed to predict the financial crisis en mass. Responding to the Queen’s question and with the benefit of hindsight they attributed it to “collective failure of imagination”, the word imagination tells it all. One more interesting development is that the whole of data gathered by the special services is going to be analyzed using “metaphor”. In brief, Humanities are not that useless, at it might appear at the first glance. My take is that the real debate should be framed as to how bring humanities back on track, so that the humanities make a valuable contribution to the ongoing inquiry.

          • meliorist

            I mentioned music, but I did forget to mention astronomy. You could choose to think of medieval astronomy as science, or proto-science, in which case again you’d be highlighting a difference between medieval university education, in which science was considered a necessary part, and the modern version, in which it is considered sufficient for a person to immerse themselves in, say, novels and poetry for a few years to merit a bachelor’s degree. On the other hand, medieval astronomy was steeped in superstition and closely allied to astrology. It also reflected the Platonic tendency to disdain the real world in favour of attending to heavenly realms.

            There is nothing good to be said of theology. It contributed in no small way to keeping the dark ages dark. Renee Descartes’ useful contributions are in mathematics. His theology is of no real value – and that includes his dualism and his method of doubt. The only point of studying it is to remind ourselves of how the mind in speculation can lead itself astray.

            In my opinion, anyone who does not understand statistics may as well be illiterate, because they have little hope of understanding most of what goes on in this world. It’s a serious mistake to say that because most economists failed to predict the 2007 credit crunch, statistics is bad at predicting in general. The kind of analysis that the security services (as well as big corporations) perform on internet user data is highly mathematical, and to recruit it in defence of the humanities is a tenuous stretch in deed – desperate, even. People don’t need humanities degrees in order to understand what a metaphor is.

            The humanities do not have a useful contribution to make. They are the leftovers of the worst part of the medieval university – the hermeneutical tradition. Their actual contribution is mostly negative – silly, nihilistic theories, such as modernism and post-modernism, not to mention completely evil systems of thought such as Marxism and Fascism. They are least bad when they just do nothing, and waste everyone’s time. Some years back, someone counted over four hundred PhD theses devoted to discussion of the work of Joseph Beuys. An enormous waste of time, but at least nobody died.

            • pearlsandoysters

              I don’t know if my previous post shows up. In brief, the major thrust of my reasoning is that humanities have become a boogie man of toady for a reason: modern liberal arts fail to justify their place in the grand scheme of things. Truth be told the contemporary developments are mostly incomprehensible and some positions have distinct anti-human flavour (postmodernism). However, in a wider sense humanities are part and parcel of on-going inquiry into the nature of the universe. It’s increasingly naive and immature to dismiss Theology as superstition irrelevant to human inquiry. Newton was very much interested in the date of the Judgement Day and considered “laws of attraction” (gravitation) to be God’s grace. So, you can easily call him “steeped in superstition”, yet do it at your peril. The examples are too numerous. Then, there have been scientific revolutions(!) and the current scientific paradigm has run out off steam. The science is never value free enterprise, so there are many ethical questions involved, which fall into provence of philosophy. The science does not answer the question “what is a good life?” or “what is happiness”, the questions that are relevant to all people. The main danger associated with the decline of humanities is suppression of freedom to speculate freely and domination by design. I know you’d disagree, yet give humanities the benefit of doubt, which is hallmark of reasoning. Lastly, there’s an excellent book “The Imperfect Garden” written in a plain English, it provides good premises for inquiry into humanities.
              P.S. In ancient Greece philosophers were taken to task as “star gazers”, yet their efforts proved valuable in the long run.

              • meliorist

                I did not say theology is superstition and irrelevant. I said there is nothing good to be said of it. I will go further: theology is philosophy as perverted by totalitarian religion. As such, it is evil, and it is dedicated to falsehood. It’s dominance over the intellect in the middle ages was not irrelevant. It was actively malign. It held back the progress of knowledge for hundreds of years, by using dire threats against any challenge to its arbitrary axioms. The fact that great minds such as Newton practiced theology is not a recommendation. It merely proves how powerful its poison is. That you would try to invoke theology – a discipline that is respected by no-one except its own practitioners – in defence of the humanities suggests that there is an unbridgeable gulf between us. The invocation of theology just reminds me even more forcefully how useless, and even harmful, the methods of the humanities are.

                P.S., The Greek philosophers were taken to task as star gazers, and 90% of their ideas were wrong. Even when, by luck, they were nearly right about something (e.g., the atomism of Epicurus), the wrong ideas often prevailed. Don’t get me wrong, I admire their thinking on various topics, but the failure to appreciate the importance of systematically collecting empirical data, and checking one’s speculations against the real world held us back until the 17th century. The speculating human mind, unaided by the scientific method, is so severely prone to error, it will always always be wrong. History has shown this time and again, quite unequivocally. There can be no justification for attempting to persist with demonstrably useless methods when we have methods that work.

            • pearlsandoysters

              The goodness or badness are in the eye of the beholder.

          • meliorist

            Regarding the term “pre-scientific”: There’s nothing odd about it. There was a scientific revolution, you know, and it marks the difference between the middle ages and the modern world. It began in the 16th century, and has been accelerating ever since. Medieval “science” was not science. There was a lack of method, there was not much careful observation, and experiments were almost never conducted. It was philosophical in nature, and revered ancient texts, which is why it made virtually no progress, instead clinging to erroneous ideas inherited from a thousand years earlier.

  • GraveDave

    Whenever I see Katie, I immediately see Kermit. What’s the matter with me – please?

  • Lola Arcana

    So basically only the upper class should do liberal arts? Just because she doesn’t know how liberal arts can lead to jobs doesn’t mean that ‘Dwayne (is she living in the past? No-one is called Dwayne anymore) from inner city Hull’ hasn’t got a job because of a LA degree. Out of touch doesn’t cover it. And I actually work at a mainly technical college.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      I don’t think she knows what ‘liberal arts’ are.

  • Rolo Tamasi

    The failure of this otherwise well argued piece is that making a living isn’t about making money. Money is just a unit of measure.

    Making a living is about generating value for others and having them share some of that value with you.

  • Fraz Glencross

    I am not a fan of Katy Hopkins, she is an irredeemable snob with all the empathy for others of your average psychopath. Her comments on Scots and Scotland tweeted on the night of the recent helicopter crash at the clutha vaults were about as repulsive as its possible to get. If she had not been Katy Hopkins she would have been prosecuted. However, on this occasion i have some sympathy for her point of view. First time for everything i suppose. Will Self will make mincemeat out of her though, of that i am certain.

  • Kitty MLB

    Honestly Katie.
    True knowledge is the knowledge you know nothing, ask
    the Greek chap you have up above about that one.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …the liberal arts muppets are best proof of that lack of knowledge, you’ll find.

      • Kitty MLB

        Muppets is a good way to describe these Lefties
        Viceroy. Empty vessels.
        Or rather like Cameron, a empty case decorated in meaningless
        slogans, on a beach waiting for the tide to come in.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …well, it’s not about Dave, it’s about the mindless drones who vote for the idiot.

  • Max07

    Who decides what a student may study? This is an important question, because increasingly the answer seems to be that if you are lucky enough to have a well-heeled mummy and daddy, you can spend years and years studying something useless and then bag an overrated, overpaid job in the City. If you’re Dwayne from an inner city estate, however, forget it. Get thee to a bricklaying course, my lad, because it’s pointless teaching you to think and anyway you probably have an IQ in double figures. I wonder where Katie Hopkins’ kids are headed? NVQs in plumbing or dog grooming perhaps? Undeniably there is a demand for these skills, but I somehow doubt that they are the sort of things that Katie has in mind for her own kids. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if one or more of them ended up reading for a nice degree in the Classics or Eng Lit. But presumably that’s all right because they don’t have names like Ashley or Tyler (see her views on childrens’ names).

  • Graeme S

    Liberal degrees in Philosophy, sociology, fine arts, and Media almost immediately make the holder unemployable. All those young kids in the noughties who so earnestly went to Uni under labour may as well of gotten toilet rolls

    • William Cooper

      Graeme S – you really know not of what you talk. George Soros and John Paulson both took philosophy degrees, and I think Soros took a philosophy Phd.

      A liberal arts degree from a decent university is no bar to a top flight career.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      ‘May as well *have*’.

      And ‘gotten’? Who says ‘gotten’?

      Oh yes…

  • Hippograd

    Let’s face it. Most of us aren’t all that bright. Sixteen per cent of us have an IQ below 85…

    That’s true of whites, who have an average IQ of 100. American blacks have an average IQ of 85, so fifty per cent of them are below 85. Chinese and Jews have higher IQs, so fewer of them will be below 85. Other psychological variables, like ethnocentrism, individualism, collectivism, tendency to corruption, etc, also vary widely among different racial groups. That’s why, for example, blacks and Muslims move to white nations, not vice versa. These biological facts are important, which is why they are not discussed. Enrichment must continue.

  • Golben Amduke

    Interesting but not sure why a vocational degree with some liberal arts “minors” as in the US are mutually exclusive. I work in the City which has been (rightly some say) criticised for focusing too much on the mechanistic generation of profit and not enough on the social or cultural implications of their actions. Now CSR is so high up the agenda of most financial services companies precisely because their “methods” and “reasons” for what they do has been called into question.

    We could (heaven forfend) borrow a little bit from France where logic, scientific method and ethics are subjects available and widely-taken in the Bac all the way to 18.

    There are several US tech executives at the top of companies who have philosophy degrees from Stanford and other institutions of that ilk.

    I do agree that the commodification of tertiary education under Blair was a mistake, and led to a bunch of funding for quite useless quasi-degrees, but we don’t need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      Blair? Don’t you mean Major?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Journalists that write on sub-technical topics should have a scientific rather than a liberal arts background. And this applies particularly to motoring journalists, who largely don’t have a clue about the metric measurement system. Basic errors of abbreviation coupled with an Imperial-metric mishmash is the image I’m trying to get across. When it comes to astrophysics, the Daily Mail is far better than the Telegraph.
    Jack, …

  • JonBW

    There are lots and lots of people out there with MBAs and other business qualifications merrily making a right pig’s ear of managing commercial operations; there are also huge numbers of graduates of the famous ‘University of Life’ who can’t, despite the bluster, organise the proverbial celebration in a brewery.

    And why is Jordan lecturing us about education?

    • JonBW

      Sorry – just realised, it’s not that Katie, is it?

  • Ooh!MePurse!

    What we need in education is a mix, to reflect the wonderful differences between us all.

    • Kitty MLB

      Not a leftie education I am afraid, they would like everyone to stay as ignorant
      as each other, and are not too fond of individuality, so forget
      wonderful differences, which I agree is very important.

  • Daidragon

    Will Self is going to tear Katie into little shreds. Which is no less than such a shameless self publicist deserves.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      Blood sport.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    “…a grasp of Homer and a Grade 8 Distinction in the Harp are about as useful as a giraffe to a Copenhagen zoo.”

    .

    Nonsense. The giraffe made a perfectly wonderful lion supper. Can we say as much for the liberal arts muppets?

    • Magnolia

      The Giraffe kill was a horrifying event because it showed logical thought carried to it’s conclusion with the exclusion of any involvement of emotive feeling. The act removed any humanity.
      I never eat Danish bacon or Lurpak butter but I will now eat absolutely none.
      This is what comes of living in a world without Christian morals.
      First they came for the young giraffes…….

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …can we substitute the liberal arts muppets and spare the giraffes? The lions might turn their nose up though, like most employers.

    • Daniel Maris

      I’m sure most of use are familiar with Homer – and Bart – and many of us of a certain age have tasted Harp lager.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …was there some reason that gibberish was posted after my post, lad?

        • Daniel Maris

          Yep, for a laugh – a combination of exhalation of air and gesticulation – with which you will be unfamiliar.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …was there some reason that gibberish was posted after my post, lad?

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      I’m flattered to see that others are using my original “Liberal Arts Muppet” expression, but may I suggest upper case for the head letters?

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …I gave that some consideration, but is it best to boost these?

  • ohforheavensake

    Hi Katie (once again)-

    Here’s an article which explains why the point you make about IQ is a bit silly-

    http://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnsons-flawed-iq-logic-2013-11

  • ohforheavensake

    Hi Katie- just read the interview with you in the Guardian. You come across as rather sad; you’ve got my sympathies. Something’s obviously terribly wrong in your life.

  • Fergus Pickering

    I disagree utterly with you about education. What you suggest is precisely what it isn’t. Education is about enlarging the mind. Useful skills? Pshaw! All Art is absolutely useless. Who said that, Katie? By the way, I’ve never heard of you. Should I have?

    • Fergus Pickering

      Replying to myself. Now I have. You seem a rather foolish person.

    • dmitri the impostor

      As the lady said, ‘Theorising, philosophising and scientific endeavour are noble pursuits — but they can be pursued later, after you have learned how to get on in life.’

      You don’t just collect a degree and then sit down to *be* a philosopher/writer/inventor. These occupations may, for the fortunate few, be a by-product of experience and maturity. Most people who aspire to creative occupations are disappointed or, which amounts to the same thing, fall victim to the immaturity of their aspirations.

      The arts and literature have little survival value compared to plumbing or bookkeeping but are things that give value to survival. That is precisely why their enjoyment should be deferred. To everything there is a season, Ferg, and a time to every purpose under heaven.

      • pearlsandoysters

        Nowadays youngsters are brought without understanding their own limitations, thus the disappointment. The chances anyone doing philosophy later on are very slim, the real life moves on and basically that’s it.

  • Paddy S

    The woman sums up everything about what is wrong with modern Britain. The best conservatives are ignored but allow themselves to be portrayed as people like her – the best lack all conviction indeed,

    while the left even after all the damaged they have caused to society, morality, politics, and debate are portrayed as compassionate, caring and good – while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

    Yeats would be right.

  • ChuckieStane

    The Spectator has hit the lowest depths of tabloid trash by employing Hopkins

  • callingallcomets

    I love Katie……don’t always agree with her but her shoot from the hip style is actually a cover for some worthwhile thinking…….and like the fact that she irritates the bleeding heart left and the pompous retired prep school teachers who infest these pages….

    • ohforheavensake

      She doesn’t irritate me. She’s just a bit silly, that’s all.

      • sarah_13

        She needn’t be quite so mean and unpleasant, she would achieve less publicity but be more persuasive he she were more palatable.

        • Hexhamgeezer

          Pippa Middleton in Doc Martens

          • callingallcomets

            I’m just holding that thought, Hexham…

            • In2minds

              Me too, and sorry i can’t say so in Latin

              • Kitty MLB

                Latin is quite limited in words, so English is fine.
                If not there is always Greek.

            • GraveDave

              C–t.

      • Kitty MLB

        A bit silly is putting it mildly.

    • Erictheowl

      My sentiments exactly – we need someone like her, and in certain circles, I find I only have to mention her name to get some excellent, free entertainment of the steam coming out of the ears variety.

    • GraveDave

      She is irritating, but not in the way you like to think. And I’m sure she’s as much a stitch up and embarrassment to the Conservative Right as White Dee to the New Labour Left.

  • Simon McTuffington

    Katie have you ever thought about getting a boob job..

  • volcrush

    you have an econ degree. it’s about as useful as a lib arts degree

    • the viceroy’s gin

      With a proper mathematics and statistics education to support it, it’s a bit more useful than lib arts (but just a bit).

      • Fergus Pickering

        Useful for doing what, old fruit?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          You’d have to be sufficiently educated to understand the explanation, so we best skip it, lad.

  • ohforheavensake

    Speaking of education, Katie- you do know that the IQ scale is proportionate, and is recalculated to give the same percentages; so a score of 85 is a relative, rather than an absolute measurement?

    Starting your article by getting this wrong makes you look a bit stupid. Where were you educated?

    • sarah_13

      I don’t understand your first sentence, what do you mean?

      • ohforheavensake

        I mean that a score of 85 doesn’t mean you’re thick. Katie’s repeating the same silly thing that Boris Johnson said a few months back: here’s an article from Business Insider which explains her elementary mistake-

        http://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnsons-flawed-iq-logic-2013-11

        • Chris Morriss

          I’m afraid it does. We all know that the average IQ is 100 by definition. I guess that is what you meant by your mumbling about “proportionate”. An IQ of 85 is that of a cave-dwelling troll.

          • ohforheavensake

            No…. The average IQ is a relative measure, and the 100 rating is re-calibrated periodically to take account of new results. It is not an absolute measure of intelligence.

            Read the article.

            • Daniel Maris

              Absolutely – and until very recently average IQ (as recalibrated) has been increasing at an incredible rate…ignoring such factors as dumbing down of exams, abolition of grammar schools or anything else you care to mention.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                You really don’t know what you’re talking about, much like the other dolt.

                It’s amazing how statistically ignorant you are. Not too amazing, however, as it goes along with the rest of your ignorance and poor education.

                • Marie Louise Noonan

                  I’m with Benjamin Disraeli (a true polymath).

                  ‘Lies, damned lies, statistics’.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …are you sure you understand the context of that quote?

                • Marie Louise Noonan

                  What is the point of those ellipses?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …I didn’t think so.

                • Marie Louise Noonan

                  ‘…I didn’t think so.’

                  I beg your pardon?

                  Edit: Okay, I’ve perused your posting history. You seem to make a point of gratuitously insulting everyone you encounter. And you use the word ‘muppet’ a lot.

                  Welcome to my kill file.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, I didn’t think so.

                  And you’re the muppet who seems to tag along after my posts with your unsolicited and unwanted stupidity, so you’re more than welcome to add your name to a kill file and cease tagging along behind me.

                • Marie Louise Noonan

                  Hardly. I’ve responded to one of your posts.

                  You must have someone else in mind.

                  By the way, you don’t actually get to choose who ‘tags along after your posts’ on a public forum.

                  Unless someone really did die and and bequeath the role of chief moderator to you.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, you’ve tagged along behind several of my posts, with your useless blather, including this one.

                  Oh, I didn’t say I’d like to choose who tags along behind me. Some muppets just seem to do so.

                  The only thing more stupid than your posts is that you’re jabbering about putting me on some sort of “kill file”, as if I want a muppet like you tagging along behind me or something. Go away and stay away. Don’t talk about it. Just do it.

                • pearlsandoysters

                  Absolutely! I find it extremely strange that the viceroy’s gin’s sole purpose is to go around insulting everybody around, there should be some way to stop him from pursuing this aim of his. May be he conducts research into how tolerant people are? Otherwise, there seems to be no reasonable explanation.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Oh statistics. Gotcha. Lies and damn lies eh?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …well, similar to your fellow socialist above, there’d be no way for you to tell the difference, as that would require a proper education and intelligence level, which you sadly lack.

          • Daniel Maris

            Bull. Our cave dwelling ancestors wouldn’t have scored 20 on the IQ test. They wouldn’t have understood the questions!

            • the viceroy’s gin

              It’s amusing that the discussion turned to deficient IQ’s of 85 and so forth, and you instantly pop up.

    • Mboyle1888

      This.

      If people (collectively) become smarter, the average (100) moves, it is not fixed.

      In the IQ scale, there are only ever a certain amount of people in each higher/ lower percentile, as it changes relative to other people’s score- so to use it (like Hopkins/ Boris have done) as a definitive and meaningful measurement of intelligence is, in itself, pretty unintelligent

  • E Hart

    At the heart of your gross, purblind reductionism, is the equating of humanity with an vapid abstraction called “consumerism”. You might have bought into it but that doesn’t mean everyone has to. Do you have any concept of what your arid prospectus would produce? I’ll give you a clue – it’s the beginning of the end for humanity. It’s not good for people to aspire to a bought ledger or an Excel spreadsheet even if they might have to use one or both of them.

    Why do you think Athens was better than Sparta? Look what happened when the latter promoted bucolic militarism to the exclusion of much else. It became largely anonymous to history despite having a higher literacy rate than any other Greek city state (it educated women). Athens, on the other hand, is immortal because of all that pondering on “things that don’t matter”. You know, philosophy, physics, medicine, architecture, botany, art, mercantilism… It is always a good idea to follow things through to a logical conclusion. What happened to Sparta? It was crushed by a bunch of ponderers.

    We don’t need just one, we need both. One of the real problems with business is they want trained people but they don’t want to do it or pay for it. Then they complain that there is a “skills shortage” and they just have to import large numbers of people (trained at other people’s expense) from the EU and elsewhere. Business, which largely abhors the state, wants that same state to foot the bill.

    Why would anyone sacrifice the chance of a liberal arts education for the benefit of the parsimonious and short-sighted? As WWII proved, under a command economy it has to be said, people were trained remarkable quickly to do all kinds of things regardless of gender, social background or educational attainment. If there is a will and the means to do so, there is a way. It’s about time British business started to invest in its own people rather than seeing them as a drag to put in the debit column. The upshot of this is clear. We are increasingly poorly trained people working on zero hours contracts in an increasingly non-productive capacity a reducing productive capacity and an increasingly subsistence-led

    • the viceroy’s gin

      So “business” is supposed to train people, while higher education teaches feminist underwater basketweaving? Is that it? That’s your story?

      Sorry, but yours just a confused blogpost, in conflict with itself. Athens wasn’t studying feminist underwater basketweaving, you may depend.

      • E Hart

        Why not? Some of them purport to be “Investors in People”. I know, they are already tied up like kittens in red tape…

        Most universities tend to offer subjects that are useful – if they didn’t no-one would want to attend them. So, stop talking drivel. What you need to consider is this; we have companies that don’t want to train people; don’t want to pay people; don’t want to be lumbered with tax or employer NI; don’t want to employ people (who are citizens) and which are all too often service-based, low-skill operations. We are in an idiotic low-value-added service loop – which when credit is hard to find – struggles to provide employment of any kind.

        I recently encountered a doctor in genetics who had worked in a call centre for two years. That’s Britain for you.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          I’m not talking drivel, you are, and your support of feminist underwater basketweaving is drivel.

          Your demand that “business” must do any required training is also drivel.

          Eliminate feminist underwater basketweaving, and there will be funds available to do the necessary training in schools. And the necessary training won’t include your preferred drivel.

          • E Hart

            Mmm…. I’m not convinced. Are you drunk?

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Mmmmmm, you types are never convinced.

              • Daniel Maris

                That was a very long mmmm…

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …I’m surprised an ignorant and poorly educated muppet like you can even read it.

              • E Hart

                Well, the thing is, you started badly. “Feminist underwater basketingweaving” – real, imagined or metaphorical – doesn’t work for you. I recently met a geologist and a maths graduate who where going for jobs at a loss adjusters (that’s not ironic although it ought to be). Notice the careful conflation of fact and reality? Your “feminist underwater basketweaver” is, on the other hand, the new Godot.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, I started quite well. You’re a big fan of feminist underwater basketweaving, and you want “business” to provide the education that your failed upper level educational system can’t, as it’s focused on your preference for feminist underwater basketweaving.

                  Mathematicians and geologists can likely do what you do, but you’ll never be able to do what they do. Your preference for feminist underwater basketweaving would explain that, although it’s doubtful you’d understand the explanation.

            • Daniel Maris

              No, he’s just very, very boring. If only he were drunk.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …and you’re an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter.

                But tomorrow I shall be sober…

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I’m not so sure of that. Cheers!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Well, you deficient in education and intelligence could rarely be sure of much.

    • pearlsandoysters

      My take is that humanities are valuable, yet many a contemporary variety could be said to be chasing the rainbows instead of proper “star gazing”, thus there’re many confused young minds as to what they should do with all the paradigms, methods, symbols & the like. Philosophy used to be “all embracing activity concerned with everything relevant to the ultimate purpose of the human life”, however today all sorts of surrogates populate the humanities, thus the constant harping about them having lost value & relevance.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      Ms Hopkins is regurgitating an argument against the usefulness of the humanities made by…

      Governor of Hail Province in 2008. Prince Saud bin Abdul Mohsen bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud in this BBC documentary:

      http://susris.com/2013/04/05/inside-the-saudi-kingdom-bbc-documentary-video/

  • William Cooper

    A liberal arts degree from a new university is not much use to anyone, be they from a country or an inner city estate.

    However a liberal arts degree from a proper university is a very valuable education. Actually you do not go to university to learn technical skills. You pick those up on the job.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …except, many are incapable of technical skills, and that’s why they’re in liberal arts.

      • Daniel Maris

        OK, let’s follow countries that have few or no liberal arts degree graduates at all…things are bound to get better. Where shall we start? Democratic Republic of Congo, Libya, Afghanistan, Mali or Papua? Which of those is the best role model?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …why “follow” them, lad? They’re chock full of ignorant and poorly educated socialist muppets, like you.

          • Kitty MLB

            Education will never get in the way of ignorance
            as far as the leftie mind is concerned, Viceroy.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …I suspect you’d know much about how the leftist mind works

              • Kitty MLB

                Digging your sword into me now dear Viceroy
                I am deeply wounded.
                Lefties are lost in the oblivion of a fallen mind, soul
                and intellects never to be entwined.
                You cannot educate them in the errors of their ways
                by constantly attacking them, like you do.
                Also, Labour are true Lefties.
                Cameroons are politically misguided and deluded,
                but I am sure with a truly Conservative leader they will
                see the errors of their ways- they can be redeemed
                unlike Labour lost causes.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Whimpering about being “wounded” would be a leftist trait, as would be the compulsion to champion any of the LibLabCon clones. Oh, and I don’t “attack” the Left. I identify you.

                  However, I do release you from your burden of tagging along behind me with leftism.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  He’s a dog that bites everybody I’m afraid, Kitty. Probably needs to be put down. With kindness of course.

                • Kitty MLB

                  He should be careful who he bites, grass root Conservatives
                  are the only ones who show some understanding to UKIP.
                  It reminds me Fergus- It will be short ( promise)
                  At Conhome , Sweet Sally ( A real Cameroon, being one that also supports the Lib Dems and the EU and I ( You know,
                  fruitcake and all that)
                  Decided with the editors blessing to try a spot of bridge
                  building between both sides of our party,
                  It was unsuccessful, not just because both sides were unwilling
                  to talk, but mainly because of Kippers who did not want us to talk, caused lots of trouble and everything became about their
                  opinions- I always assumed UKIP were about giving
                  the country another political option ( considering the amount
                  of leftie parties we have) Not just about causing trouble.
                  Sally and I just gave up, sat underneath the Tory Oak
                  and ate humble pie.
                  OK, that was not short.
                  The Spectator could build a garden shed you know,
                  there is one at Conservativehome 😉

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Humble Pie is actually very asty.

                • Kitty MLB

                  As long as I can have custard with it and throw
                  some at Viceroy, mind you I should be careful
                  he might throw the dish at me, and deservedly so,
                  deservedly so I suppose. but he is very good at getting under the skin- hope he doesn’t read this, would not want him to know that.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …yes, socialists of a feather flock together .

                • Kitty MLB

                  Clearly Fergus has a more bounteous spirit
                  then I.
                  For I would muzzle you ! Viceroy, ( once lemons have been removed)
                  I would then tie you to a Lib Dem useless wind farm ( near Dover)
                  where you can produce hot air together, then unleash the wind farm and hopefully send you on your way to Brussels.
                  A place full of enchantment for you, and lots of little French
                  poodles- barking mad, the lot of you.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …but socialist or not, your obsessive need to tag along after my posts is a fate that not even you deserve. I release you from your burden. You are free. Go now.

                • David Lloyd

                  You amuse me, though your politics are execrable and indicative of an embittered childhood.

      • William Cooper

        Not those who are at decent universities.

        The real issue is not liberal arts but the totally appalling A levels – which allow you to drop science and maths at too a young age. International Baccalaureate is the way forward.

        And actually many of the most successful entrepreneurs that I know never went to university.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Excellent post.

          Unfortunately, there are today so few decent universities.

          You’re bang on, though, the real issue is the complete rejection of the need for higher level education of breadth and depth, especially one inclusive of mathematics and science as you mention, but there are some other things left out as well.

          A proper education isn’t a necessary precursor to successful entrepreneurship, as you mention, but neither does that imply that a poor education should be mislabeled as a proper education.

          The societal resources wasted on poor educations are stolen resources. They should be redirected elsewhere, to wages and benefits for the working class. Or at minimum, shaved off the yearly budget deficits that impoverish future generations.

          • Marie Louise Noonan

            “Liberal Arts’ is a Yank thing.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, the low standards in current higher education aren’t just a problem there.

        • Fergus Pickering

          I did what were called Scottish Highers. You needed five of them. I dropped Science but I did get Higher Maths, which bwas quite difficult. Though not as dfficult as Greek. Science was pretty straightforward as I remember(mostly mugging stuff up), but ballsachingly boring.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …so no proper mathematics and science education then. What a surprise.

            • Fergus Pickering

              I can do differentiation. I bet you can’t. Science is easy-peasy. Just mugging up stuff, like I said.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …no, you’ve acknowledged you have no mathematics and science education, and therefore you’d have no way of knowing. Like most of the poorly educated and the limited intellects, you don’t know, and you don’t know what you don’t know.

                We know this because you’ve told us.

            • Kitty MLB

              Viceroy, dear chap ( I shall give you a Cameroon hug a hoodie
              type hug- even if I am not one)
              Unfortunately, this female is very bad at maths- numbers mean nothing, yet I adore science ( Astrophysics) only though.
              You also mentioned being multi – lingual earlier- Yes
              some get that, Greek is very difficult though as gentleman above said- Latin easier.
              Do be kind with your judgement on lesser beings though,
              some do not have your superior and divine intellect-
              mere mortals and all that.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Yes, it is generally obvious the level of education and intelligence an individual has, and like the other shrieking numpty, you have no proper mathematics and science education, as suspected.

                Now then, best if you let yourself drift away from your obsession. I release you from your burden. Your beginning to come off as a stalker now. You can cease your tag along.

    • Marie Louise Noonan

      ‘A liberal arts degree from a new university is not much use to anyone, be they from a country or an inner city estate.’

      It’s a good thing they generally don’t offer them then.

  • Joy G.

    Really, Ms Hopkins, what kind of school do your children go to if they haven’t learned how to create a spreadsheet long before they choose a degree? And, when I started a business, I was, oddly, able to read and absorb the principles of business strategy quite capably off the back of my literature degree (which, incidentally, took me into a career in computing, back in 1986, thence and to an MSc In Information Technology before I started a Business Communication training company). The key purpose of a University education should be to teach students how to aquire and process information as effectively as possible, and to communicate that information onwards, so the subject matter of the degree is largely immaterial, unless you are seeking a narrow and specific career path such as medicine, dentistry or veterinary science which requires a significant depth of knowledge within the field. There is no reason with these exceptions why any degree should not fit you for any career.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      So that’s one literature degree gone on to computers and then a business startup. What about the other 10,000,000 driving for the taxi services?

      • Daniel Maris

        Yawn.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …not sure the above taxi driver is capable of even liberal arts, mind you.

          • Daniel Maris

            Technicolor yawn.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …not sure the muppet is capable of taxi driving, either.

    • Fedup WithWannabes

      “The key purpose of a University education should be to teach students how to aquire [sic] and process information as effectively as possible”

      Absolutely true. We are not in Germany. A good degree is a good degree. Some ar better than others, but that’s life. I know plenty of management consultants and lawyers who have liberal arts degrees. (Not that it’s necessarily a good thing, but Hopkins is a fan of consultants and the like).

      Ms Hopkins, on the other hand, thinks that force feeding her children learning via extra tuition is the way forward. Children brought up by their parents and education to think for themselves will always be more “successful” than a spoon fed trust-fund kid, whichever way you want to measure success.

      • Kitty MLB

        Agree, but unfortunately some teachers from schools and those who
        teach at universities are not always experts in their subjects.
        You cannot teach those to process information as effectively as possibly, if you do not have a real passion and expertise in your
        so could subject.
        Thinking for yourself, being able to understand rational thought
        and being able to get to the core of any subject is the only road to
        success, as you say.

    • Fergus Pickering

      I haven’t the slightest idea what a spreadsheet is, but if I needed to know I would learn how to do it. Should take an afternoon I reckon.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        If you don’t know what a spreadsheet is, then no, you likely couldn’t work with them.

        That lack of skill and ability is common amongst the poorly educated and intellectually deficient, as we know.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Why should I know what a spreadsheet is? I don’t need one. If it’s something you can do then I could mug it up in an afternoon, like I said. How’s your Ancient Greek?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            No, you likely couldn’t, as mentioned. However, the skilled, properly educated and intellectually qualified not only know what a spreadsheet is, but can work with them. They can also do whatever it is the poorly educated and intellectually deficient can do, by definition.

            That’s what a proper education involves, proven competence and intellectual capability… or not, in your case.

            • Fergus Pickering

              But why should I want to work with one, my daft little cabbage? I could doubtless learn to drive a tank. Can you drive a tank? Why not? And can you speak Greek?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Well, first, we’re not talking about “want”, but rather ability and education, of which you’re self-admittedly deficient.

                Au contraire, your academic and intellectual deficiencies also would seem to indicate that you’d find difficulties operating a tank. Now, on the other hand, the properly educated and capable have and do operate machinery as a matter of course.

                The properly educated are also multi-lingual. You seem to find that trait of some special consequence somehow, but celebrating such mediocrity is often a trait of the less skilled and academically and intellectually substandard.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Ah, you little radish, a tank commander are you now? Got the uniform and the hat eh? Multilingual? I rather doubt it. Your command of English is pretty shaky. Now run along and let the grown-ups have a conversation.And always remember, if you can’t say nothing nice, don’t say nothing at all. We can’t all have an Eton and Oxford education but I don’t hold that against you.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Well, who knows what I am, laddie. But we do know that you are self-admittedly academically and intellectually substandard.

                  No reason for you to hold anything against anybody else, lad. The academically and intellectually deficient shouldn’t dare.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Yeah as I said. You have a very small vocabulary. I think you are a machine.Or a lobster.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Well, again, who knows what I am, lad.

                  But as for you, you’re self-admittedly academically and intellectually substandard.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Yup. A robot. Trundle off, dearie.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, but you are self-admittedly academically and intellectually substandard.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Good God, nearly coughed my breakfast up Fergus! my Conservative comrade and friend
                  Mobius ( the one you are very much alike) would have said that, in fact he has.
                  I thought he was a sui generis of life, clearly you were both separated at birth…He must come to the murky corridors
                  of the Spectator- That would be hilarious- he also has a Gormenghast humour which thankfully is unique.
                  Also both Fergus and Viceroy, should stop puffing
                  your chests out like a couple of Roman Gladiators,
                  you both will frighten the poor leftie slaves.
                  The intellects of Conservatives will always be superior,
                  and fortunately you are both Conservatives.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Probably you’re right, Kitty. I shall cease to respond to te mollusc.

                • Kitty MLB

                  You really should do that Fergus,just encourages him.
                  Clearly Viceroy is a little Kipper schoolboy creating
                  mayhem in the classroom because no one will give him a seat.
                  Also I might add the little whippersnapper is still
                  throwing buns at someone here and that he has wandered
                  off to the Spectator patisserie to buy some more to throw-
                  His knees clearly need slapping.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Socialists of a feather flock together.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Some call me the great grand-daughter of Genghis Khan,
                  others call me Ethelfled, defender of Avalon, and
                  a remaining few call me Athena ( you know the Greek one)
                  Yet fortunately no one has called me a socialist,
                  its utterly preposterous.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …that’s what socialists generally say, too.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Just go away and choke on your vapid bile.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …actually, that’s the next move for you, since you’re the one tagging along behind here.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, I’m a conservative, and the intellectually deficient one is a pure socialist.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Viceroy, There really is not much whimsicalness
                  within your dear little psyche today is there?
                  sucking lemons will give you very bad ulcers.
                  Both you gentlemen, I am sure are conservatives and have had an excellent education- its obvious, such attributes
                  cannot be disguised.
                  As far as behaving like a conservative and not a leftie is concerned.
                  I am a Conservative ( what Cameroons and Lefties call a fruitcake and much worse)
                  I am also hugely insulting about Cameron, and yet
                  some here have never pointed their sword in my direction.
                  A leftie would not be able to help themselves,
                  spite pours through the centre of their being.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, as mentioned, I’m a conservative, and the academically and intellectually deficient one in question here is a proven socialist.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Viceroy, you are repeating yourself now!
                  indigestion is another consequence of sucking lemons.
                  You are a kipper, and one that has not been filleted yet, clearly, utterly incorrigible.
                  Also, leave him alone, you were clearly the type of
                  little toad who was a utter rapscallion, placing spiders
                  into girls pockets and chucking quiet academic little boys
                  like him into ponds.
                  I should also like to say that there are two different types
                  Cameroon, you are getting them mixed up again.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You are repeating yourself, and that merits only a repetition in response. That’s how it works in life, basically.

                  You may wish to cease tagging along after my posts. It’s unproductive and annoying. You’re not providing anything useful in the tagging, or the repetition.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  A conservative lobster. I think all lobsters are pretty conservative.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Lobsters, Conservative ????
                  You mean grey creatures in opposition, thrown headfirst
                  into the boiling waters of government and come out
                  reddish, ready to be eaten by the electorate in 2015.
                  Also, you are far more polite to Viceroy then I,
                  need to learn how to handle the dear little otter of a chap.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …yes, you socialists always seem to get around to the color red, don’t you?

                • Kitty MLB

                  Viceroy, you irresistible creature with no sense of humour.
                  red is not my favourite colour ( nor his, if he will forgive me for speaking for him, and also you dear otter)
                  The clear blue waters of true Conservatism, unpolluted
                  by the toxic red waste of socialism.
                  If you think I am a socialist, then you do not mind them
                  really, you get on quite well with some of us-
                  ( probably because you know who is not actually a socialist)
                  Yes I know, you release me, I am off, farewell.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I don’t have any problem with you socialists, other than those who fantasize themselves as conservative, like you and the other educationally limited and flatulent socialist seem to be doing.

                  Go. You’re free.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I am never flatulent, drink peppermint tea on a regular
                  basis.
                  My education, I do actually have a traditional degree, but not in maths unfortunately.
                  I know you do not have a problem with a lot of conservatives, because you give us a thumbs up,
                  very often- and we do you, and I might point out
                  some of us also defend you very often.
                  Unfortunately I must leave this article and not return.
                  There really is no need to respond-its becoming
                  like a la la land.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  It was la la land the moment you fantasized you socialists were conservative.

                  Smart move though, putting down your burden.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I really am conservative.
                  I have only been here a few weeks and am getting used to
                  who follows what party. I appear to have made a few mistakes and misjudged a few people.
                  I also apologise, never meant any disrespect.
                  I shall be off, back to the other place, and to my kipper
                  comrades ( apparently I am a honorary one) as we do battle against The evil serpent Cameron, and the cloned political class, I shall never vote for that man again.
                  its been a pleasure making your acquaintance Viceroy.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …but you really must put down your burden permanently. I release you.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, that type of thinking would fit your thought profile, wouldn’t it?

        • Kitty MLB

          Viceroy, You said tomorrow you will be sober,
          so I shall speak whilst you are not.
          ‘ lack of skill and ability is common amongst the poorly
          educated’
          A human without education is like a human without
          the wings to soar, its like marble in a quarry.
          Yet its up to teachers who are responsible for the kindling
          of a flame, and planting the seeds that will forever
          give those a joy for learning- which will stay forever.
          Do not blame those who are poorly educated,
          you are only as good as those who teach you,
          and the leftie dominated education system in this country is rubbish.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …not blaming anybody. It’s simply a matter of describing what a proper education involves.

            And a proper education can take place regardless of the type of teacher (although skilled teachers up through the teen years are a necessity for many). But in particular, higher education is nearly always self-directed, at root. The student will go where he desires and is capable, and it’s only about the standards applied to scale that journey, and its rigor.

            • Kitty MLB

              I know you are not blaming anyone. You are
              a gentleman of the first water ( or is it river) and all that.
              I also understand what you are saying.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …you don’t need to tag along after my posts. I release you from your burden.

                • Kitty MLB

                  It was never a burden, responding to your posts they are excellent
                  and you are a splendid chap, but somewhat overly serious and snappish.
                  But that’s fine, I shall wander off like a scented breeze.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  To repeat, you are released from the burden of tagging along behind my posts.

                • Kitty MLB

                  I was just responding to you, idiot! clearly you have had
                  one too many and trust me I rarely find
                  humourless, judgemental and spiteful fools interesting
                  enough- BUGGER OFF ( excuse the unladylike language- not)

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, it is you who needs to bugger off, as you’re the irony free idiot tagging along behind my posts.

                  I release you from your obsession. You can go now.

                • Kitty MLB

                  You pathetic little man,
                  I shall have the last say and you as a kipper can just shut
                  up- clearly if you leave them out the fridge for too long
                  they go rancid !
                  Delusions of grandeur and being spiteful to grass root
                  Conservatives is not going to help you ( ou should really
                  try and be quiet!You do not even have an
                  MP ( not even one) just being opportunistic because of Cameron and Milipede.
                  I have always been supportive of UKIP and very nasty to the Camservative party, yet the likes of a little cretin like you
                  reminds me of why I will stay put, most Cameroons are very polite regardless of what you say to them.
                  You can go, and do not respond-
                  THAT IS AN ORDER!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Well, no reason to read that blather.

                  I release you from your compulsion to tag along behind my posts. You’re free.

                • Kitty MLB

                  Reverse psychology, RELEASED from the asylum too early,
                  well at least you are leaving other nice people alone.
                  Now disappear, last word on the subject.
                  Fruit bat. GO Go GO.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, seriously, you can let go now. You’re free. I’m worried that it’s starting to take its toll on you.

                  Let go your burden. You don’t have to tag along behind me.

  • Mr Creosote

    That was surprisingly well written for public enemy number one – why don’t you stand against White Dee as MP for Winson Green (or whatever God-forsaken neck of the woods it is)?

  • sarahsmith232

    Education should be about creating a well rounded human being as well as one fit to become a productive part of the capitalist structure. A firstly essential aspect in churning out kids ready to go on to become earners is to ensure they understand their true potential. This can’t be achieved in some plumbing masquerading as an ‘engineering’ course alone.

  • Fedup WithWannabes

    What do you mean by “successful adults”?? Is that someone who sells out on reality TV and takes every opportunity they can to have their “opinions” heard?

    You are a disgraceful hypocrite, Hopkins.

    • foxoles

      “What do you mean by “successful adults”??”

      ‘According to a study cited by Professor Joan Freedman in The Gifted Child, only six from a sample of 210 ultra bright children turned out to be successful adults.’

      Presumably, that is a question you should take up with Professor Freeman.

      ‘Is that someone who sells out on reality TV …’

      I seem to recall, far from just appearing on TV, Ms Hopkins also worked for the Met Office earning £90,000 pa.

      ‘ … and takes every opportunity they can to have their “opinions” heard?’

      You are suggesting certain people’s opinions shouldn’t be heard?

      • Fedup WithWannabes

        ‘I seem to recall, far from just appearing on TV, Ms Hopkins also worked for the Met Office earning £90,000 pa.’

        And was fired for not meeting the grade. Keep up. She’s a reality TV sell out. She doesn’t spout her vitriol for the good of humanity, she does it to make money. That’s why so many of her “opinions’ conflict each other and she is such a hideous hypocrite.

        ‘You are suggesting certain people’s opinions shouldn’t be heard?’

        Well we live in a society where a religious leader can’t spread hate through his preachings, so why should we be fed hatred through the media courtesy of an adulterous, vile, hypocrite like her? For example, anyone that professes to ‘hate’ a child because of hair colour or name, or hate every single person on benefits, is either saying it for effect or is mentally sick. Or is it “OK”, because she’s white middle class?

        Hopkins is the worst sort of person possible in modern society… She spews ill-informed bile at anyone that will listen (and many that won’t) yet does nothing for the advancement of British society. God help anyone who sees her as some sort of role model and god help her poor children, being brought up by such a classic sociopath.

        Contrary to what some believe, she is not remotely responsible for opening the debates on benefits, social mobility etc. She is just tagging on to the band wagon.

        Oh, and anyone that agrees with her that social mobility is a bad thing needs to seriously check their thinking!

        • Marie Louise Noonan

          But jumping from ‘The Sun’ to ‘The Spectator’ must be the ultimate form of ‘social mobility’.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Oh well, if she earned £90,000 telling us the weather then she is obviously a successful person. My daughter, who works with deaf children, will never earn £90,000. Poor failure!.

    • pearlsandoysters

      Lord Acton was of opinion that “there’s nothing worse than sanctification of success”. Methinks he was right on this point.

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