Coffee House

Harriet Harman’s messy war with the Mail

25 February 2014

8:10 PM

25 February 2014

8:10 PM

Go to war with the Daily Mail at your peril: Ed Miliband did it over its ‘the man who hated Britain’ column and now perhaps the Labour party is seeing the revenge for that with the paper’s ongoing insistence that Harriet Harman apologise for the National Council for Civil Liberties’ links to the Paedophile Information Exchange in the 1970s. Harman, though, is going to war with the Mail again, and her supporters in the press are arguing that the paper is on thin moral ground here.

Harman’s messy handling of the story has kept it going as much as anything else. She gave a forceful interview to Newsnight yesterday in which she insisted that she had nothing to apologise for, then 12 hours later suggested that the links between NCCL and PIE were ‘regrettable’. She has only said that ‘it was regrettable that [the PIE] even existed, it was regrettable that they had anything to do with NCCL ever’.

But her decision to also a screen shot of a Mail Online story about bikini-clad girls (from 2011, oddly), saying ‘when it comes to decency and sexualisation of children, would you take lessons from the Daily Mail?’ shows that she’s not just going to avoid apologising: she’s keen for a fight with the newspaper that fights hardest. The Tory party feels it can ignore the Mirror when it goes for Conservative MPs, but this incident shows it is impossible to ignore the much bigger beast of the Mail. It’s difficult to imagine any other paper having the tenacity to splash on the same story repeatedly.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • bluefeather6 .

    http://pieandmashfilms.com/
    http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=Harriet+harman
    http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/?s=Harriet+harman&submit=Search

    Research, educate and protect our children – get the satanic paedophile’s out of any area of influence in society.

  • 1498

    No amount of Labour spin, will make this scandal go away. They have tried to claim that it was a ”smear campaign” by the Daily Mail newspaper. The BBC – and most of the mainstream media, have played this scandal down.
    But the ordinary British public are not fooled so easily. Some answers, some clarity and an apology are required.

  • mrsjosephinehydehartley

    This whole thing smacks of ” retrospective notional accountability” – a mysterious term I once noticed years ago in the form of tax credits.. perhaps it’s come back to bite Harriet Harman.

  • john p reid

    Liberty so leader Shami chakrabarti, has links to David Davis and the Tories and the BBC, so saying the bbc are defending this is hardly accurate, it’s descending into Godwin law,

  • HJ777

    Quite apart from the rights and wrongs on this story, for a lawyer, Harriet Harman does seem extraordinarily inept at mounting a defence.

    • Andy

      That’s because she has no defence and she knows it.

      • HJ777

        But in such a case, any lawyer worth their salt would admit fault but try to minimise perceived culpability.

        • Andy

          Yes well ‘worth’ and ‘salt’ is the nub of it.

    • rubyduck

      Harman is thick.

      In this case, that probably amounts to a defence.

  • Eyesee

    See the Mail is wrong in its stance. Harman and co were not apologists for PIE they gave it a platform and were happy with its existence. But Harman and co were not concerned with them being paedophiles, Harman may find the practice repulsive, but as a Marxist she needed them to help undermine our society, our culture. When everything around you becomes alien and you feel like a stranger in your own country (not just because of immigration, but also strange laws, political correctness telling you what you are allowed to think), you become lost. When you have that empty, hopeless feeling, then the Marxists will step in and put it all right. Hitler, another totalitarian, seized power when helplessness in the face of national failings gripped the country. Germans were glad of the strength, but came to regret what they ‘wished’ for. So too totalitarians such as Harman, though they seek to create the crisis and hence the conditions to seize power.

    • Doggie Roussel

      Harriet “Longford” Harperson, a Marxist… Uncle Frank would be swooning with joy…

      Apparently Harperson’s “Mini-Marxist” hubbie, wee Jack Dromey, wasn’t welcome at Uncle Franks’s table in East Sussex as he was considered too thick and too common…

      Hopefully, this will run and run…

  • DaHitman

    Socialists hate it when the truth comes out, they’re a fascist bunch

  • saffrin

    No thought of stepping down then?
    Platitudes, say what they want to hear without an ounce of conviction.
    Westminster Village. May 2010, kick the lot out.

  • Terry Field

    Curious that she refused to adequately condemn the PIE membership association with her erstwhile ’employer’.
    Newsnight gave her many chances to do so.
    She did not take up that opportunity.
    In the broadest political sense, and unrelated to any PIE matter, have always considered her a net negative on the British political scene.
    In consequence,I am pleased that this little argument with the Mail may damage her politically. Anything that reduces her place in British political life would, for me, be beneficial to the country.
    Interesting how the BBC deals with this.
    They do not improve.

    • saffrin

      The EU’s propaganda machine is huge. Harriet is a Brussels darling. it will all wash over and she’ll come out smelling of roses.

      • Terry Field

        Yes, the political manipulation of public opinion is an obscenity – only two days ago it was ‘revealed’ that an ONS report on immigration – effectively telling the truth about it – was squashed and ‘represented’ – ie distorted – by the HOME Office – then under the political control of New Labour.
        I held a quite senior role in a part of the Home Office for part of that time, and my recollections of my unpleasant time there fit well with this fundamental dis-honesty and profoundly anti-democratic behaviour.
        The behaviour of the Home Office under New Labour in regard to immigration is, in my view, one of the great public scandals of our time.

  • Mike Purves

    Harman attacks the Mail for publishing a supposedly titillating photo of young girls in bikinis – by publishing the same photo herself on Twitter. Doh!

    • john p reid

      She could hardly get her pint across by not publishing them

      • Mike Purves

        Great typo!

  • City Blue

    Say what you like about the Bullingdon, at least they didn’t affiliate with the Paedophile Information Exchange.

    • john p reid

      Jimmy saville

      • City Blue

        Don’t think the Gaffer was an Oxford chap Reidy.

  • Makroon

    “It’s difficult to imagine any other paper having the tenacity to splash on the same story repeatedly”.

    Quite so Ms Hardman, the Speccie / DT would be much more likely to give Harman a guest column to spread her inanity, (and some dyslexic readers might even confuse Harman with – the award winning – Hardman !)

  • William Haworth

    Dave Lee Travis is nearly bankrupted by allegations of sexual misconduct from 40 years ago, but that’s OK. Harman daren’t acknowledge that the world was different then.

    • alabenn

      You can bet these two will not take the Daily Mail to court unless someone else pays.

      • FrenchNewsonlin

        Thank God for legal aid cutbacks then!

      • Andy

        The ghastly trio wont sue: they have no case. Everything the Daily Mail has printed is true.

    • Makroon

      Do try to keep up, precisely that – “the world was a different place then” is the current BBC line, both on it’s own sex-pestery, and Harman’s dalience with the PIE.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Yes, this is something I have hear quite a lot now.

        The 70’s were certainly different but abuse of children was as illegal and repugnant then as it is now.

        But not according to the Left.

        Which figures.

  • arnoldo87

    An antidote to the usual hatefest on this site can be found in the Times today, where David Aaronovitch points out that 1970’s social attitudes were very different to those of today.
    Indeed it would be interesting to know if The Mail, or any other newspaper for that matter, condemned PIE at the time.

    • Cyril Sneer

      “1970’s social attitudes were very different to those of today.”

      So different that many wanted to f ck children? No, you’re wrong.

      I was alive in the 70’s, your argument amounts to squat mate.

      Ask any respectable human being in the 70’s and they would’ve told you child abuse is a sick criminal act. You can’t weasel out of what is a proper scandal – a senior labour politician with clear links to a pedo group. She has to resign in disgrace.

      • arnoldo87

        I was alive in the 70’s too, and agree that child abuse has always been a sick criminal act. But attitudes were different in those days for some people.
        Look at the way that Savile’s actions were tolerated by those around him, and at the way that abuse of children was condoned in the Catholic church.
        And there is no “clear link” to a paedophile group as you claim.

        • Cyril Sneer

          The links are there and clear for all to see.

          “Look at the way that Savile’s actions were tolerated by those around him”

          And look how the BBC has got away with it. Do you really know how far this Saville abuse scandal went? What I hear is that it literally goes straight to the top. Will we ever get a proper open inquiry about this?

          At one time politicians used to resign, since Blair, they’ve shown you can literally do anything, be found to lie, and get away with it. The media has been complicit in this.

          It wouldn’t be so bad if the left had one shred of decency left. They’re intent to spread smears, mostly without basis, and yet cry foul when something far more offensive and far more worrying is laid at their door which they dismiss as ‘too long ago’ or ‘but the Mail supported the black shirts’.

          The left do not have one redeeming respectable bone left in their rotting corpse.

    • William Haworth

      She has plenty more important things to apologise for, like her role in Blair’s government.

      • Michael le Fleming

        Have a nasty feeling the association of Liberty,GLF & the paedophile group is going to regenerate the thought in some people’s minds that gays are also paedophiles. As most should know, this is simply not true.

    • alabenn

      Would this hatefest be similar to the one that the late Lord MacAlpine who actually was innocent had to endure shortly before his death.
      Did we hear this woman and her husband who actually colluded with real child molesters utter one word about you and your lot wallowing in the lies and innuendo about this and all the other leftie manufactured outrages you and your kind are partial to, crawl away to your swamp and see if you can puapate into a human being.

      • arnoldo87

        If you actually read the Coffee House blogs that related to the Lord MacAlpine story, you will find that the hatefest WAS similar, in that all of the hate was directed at Labour politicians.
        As per usual

        • Cyril Sneer

          There is a lot to hate about Labour politicians.

          Traitors to this country being one of many reasons to hate them.

          • arnoldo87

            I rest my case.

            • Cyril Sneer

              Then you have made a pretty poor case.

              Taking your ‘argument’ and turning it on you – so, as you’re partial to Labour politicians you’re willing to overlook their involvement with pedo groups.

              You have a pretty sick mindset.

              • arnoldo87

                There is no “involvement with paedo groups”.

                • STKT1

                  Errr Yes there was. Just look at the evidence.

                  “There’s none so blind as those who will not see”

    • Wessex Man

      so let me get this right, if David Aaronovitch says 1970’s social attitudes were ‘different’ it was OK to be a pedo way back then according to you? To me that just shows why the Daily Mail were so right to bring this out in the open.

      My view and I expect the views of most people here was exactly the same now as it was in the seventies, the pedos should be locked up for the rest of their lives in a ordinary prison with no special privileges and certainly not in ‘special units’

      • Doggie Roussel

        Ah… the joy of imagining when Rasta meets Harperson in a 6′ x 6′ cell…

      • arnoldo87

        Why do arguments on this subject include personal accusations that are not warranted? I have never said it was OK to be a paedo, and never will.

        But the fact is that attitudes were different back then for some people. Aaronovitch quotes the photo of a nude teenage girl on the Blind Faith album cover as an example. That would never happen today.

        As I have already said, I don’t think there was any mass outrage at the time about PIE, but you may be able to prove me wrong. But if I am right, then you can begin to understand why Harman and company were also more relaxed about the subject back then than they are now.

        • Andy

          Come come sir that is piffle of the worst order. The PIE was affiliated with the NCCL. To be so you had to be ‘approved’ by a committee of the NCCL, so it was not a ‘passive act’ (i.e. just cashing a cheque) as Harbag has tried to make out, but a positive one. The ‘rights’, perceived or otherwise, of paedos trumped those of children at the NCCL. There wasn’t ‘mass outrage at the PIE’ probably because most people had never heard of them.

          But the question here is one of the politics of the Left and its ‘cultural values’, and for this Harbag ought to be called to account. This ‘quite acceptance of paedos’ was not something without consequences. What about those children who were abused in Islington Car Homes, then run by a loony Left Council ?

          And I would make one other point. It is rich for Harbag to complain about ‘smears’. Please point me towards her ringing condemnation of the malicious libelling by the BBC of an entirely innocent man. Many on the left were only too happy to jump on that bandwagon.

  • Cyril Sneer

    I sincerely hope the Mail buries her. I mean destroys her career, reputation (if that’s possible to destroy any more) the whole stinking lot. She deserves everything coming to her.

    The link with the left and underage intimate acts with children seems to be stronger than ever.

    • Icebow

      Yes. Anything that undermines her can only be good.

  • scampy1

    Little Dromey came top of the all female labour short list?
    Can you imagine what Harpersons upper crust parents thought after sending her to a top class girls school she brought home the low class little rat bag Dromey?

  • Jake_the_Peg

    A good follow through on this story at Biased BBC.

    From the comments a link to the Labour25

    • john p reid

      That labour25′ is a smear, so Tatchell who was t even a recognised labour candidate supported PIE, and it was t Harman fault about her uncle, biased BBC is normally good, but there are other Tory journolists at the BBC, who see this as a smear.

  • Tony_E

    It seems rather strange to me that the story has really been about Harman. Maybe it’s because she has a tendency to be the the most strident of the three.

    But for me the one who has the most to reveal over this is the one who has remained absolutely silent – Patricia Hewitt. Her position was more senior and held longer. NCCL was not a large organisation, it would appear we are talking about 25% of its entire employees over the period in question.

    And then the third arm of this should be the links to local authorities – why is this not being fully investigated. Most of the abuse itself seems to have been facilitated by either poor standards or in some cases a deliberate policy of acceptance. The Mail story clearly states that a social worker told a boy’s family that he had consented to a sexual relationship when clearly he had been assaulted and was at the time, much younger than the age of consent (and the age of homosexual consent was much higher in the 1970s than the heterosexual one). Institutional attitudes can be driven by a number of factors of course – but a great many philosophies were up for grabs in that era, things that would seem outlandish now were openly debated.

    We must know whether a philosophy of acceptance, with either PIE or NCCL promotion, led to abuse. We must also know if anyone who promoted an acceptance of such acts is still in public office or in a position to have actively covered up abuse. Historic crimes are still crimes, there is no statute of limitations in UK law.

    • Andy

      What you say is true. Harbag is getting the flack because she is now in a more senior position, and she is a poisonous cow so it is richly deserved. Problem for her is that the PIE were affiliated before she went to work for NCCL and after she left.

      You are also right about Local Authorities. I hope the Mail will turn and look at the Pedophile ring who operated in care homes owned and run by Islington Council. There was wide scale abuse in those homes Who was the leader of Islington Council – step forward Margaret Hodge.

    • Ron Todd

      Harman is the one that the left wants to save.

    • scampy1

      These labour vermin want to carry on cottaging thanks to Tony the phony Blair ladies Mandelson.Smith, Robertson,Eagle,Ashton et al?

  • swatnan

    The Its always a mistake to take on the Press and HH knows it. Thats why its pointless to sue. You have to wait a few years and the rogue journalists and Papers generally get hoist by their own petard and get their comeupance rather like the NotW and Coulson and Murdoch. The only people who can really take on the Press are the Press and journalists themselves, but they’re so cowardly and have few ethics anyway and won’t confront unethical behaviour from their colleagues.

    • Andy

      Harbag can’t sue, because everything the Daily Mail has published is true. The PIE was affiliated to NCCL before she arrived, while she was there, and after she left. And yet this odious self-righteous cow never thought this was inappropriate. PIE was more closely associated with the NCCL than Harbag is trying to make out. And as far as most of us are concerned ‘Silence condones Consent’.

      • swatnan

        Nonsense.
        HH is right to wait and bide her time, on the principle:
        ‘Don’t get mad: Get even’

      • Alexsandr

        if she knew the PIE were affiliated to the NCCL, and she knew what they were about (evidence seems to suggest she did know this), then If she found this unacceptable she should have taken the matter up with her management. If it was not resolved then she should have resigned. Dromey and Hewett too. Their failure to do this means they are culpable.
        Obviously hanging onto a good job to put on their CV was more important than ethics.

        • Andy

          The point is PIE were there before her, so she knew that when she took the job. It didn’t bother her. She worked with a member of PIE who sat on an NCCL committee. Didn’t bother her. This has got a lot more traction in it, especially when the Mail start looking at child abuse in Islington.

          • Alexsandr

            are you talking about Margaret Hodge?

  • Ron Todd

    If this had been a tory the media with the BBC in the lead would have attacked like a swarm of piranhas until her party leaders kicked her out.

  • George_Arseborne

    Harriet is great woman. The nazist mail has backed down. They are now jokes. Can someone tell Grant Shapps that his attack line on Milliband is so weak an out dated that makes him the most useless Tory Chairman. All the time “Milliband is so weak to stand up to the union paymaster” . Mr. Shapps, if you do not know, unions represents those same working people you are trying to gain for the Tories. What were your motives of getting John Major out of bed yesterday?
    Please moderator publish this and send a copy to Grant Shapps Micheal Green.

    • Wessex Man

      Harriet Harperson for President of the EU and President of Transworld and President of PIE International.

      Please moderator publish this and send a copy to Ed Balls.

    • serialluncher

      Do you think the links to PIE are only regrettable like the “great woman”?

    • MirthaTidville

      After reading your first 4 words there was little point in reading the rest of the rubbish

    • Cyril Sneer

      Oh it’s the old ignore what we do because they do this…. pathetic.

      It doesn’t get round the very simple fact that your labour politician and her husband had clear links and supported an organisation that wanted to legalise initimate relations with children. Pretty disgusting, and you want to change the subject? P ss off.

  • FrankS2

    Why has this story surfaced in the Mail now? Hattie, Hewitt and Co’s PIE connection has been widely mentioned in the blogosphere fpr ages – why has the Mail latched onto it now?

    • stewart

      Good question

    • saffrin

      To prove Labour have low moral standing.
      Not fit to run a welk stall at a fair ground.

      • FrenchNewsonlin

        It was all about pushing the boundaries in the 70s and these immature Labour loony lefties were starry-eyed proselytisers determined to bring on the sexual revolution and end UK’s “sexual repression” as one of their ilk has put it. They want it forgotten now because it was “so long ago”. But Harman was quick to demand a judge-led inquiry into Savile and he’s dead!

        Worse she has held senior policymaking positions of great influence in government and certainly aims to hold more in the future. She declines to recant or admit to and apologise for her youthful lack of judgement.

        Clearly she is unfit for public office but she won’t go until she’s dragged out kicking and screaming — that’s how it is with the Left blinded by sanctimonious righteousness.

    • Wessex Man

      why not, at least it ‘latching’ on to a real fact not like the BBC!

  • alabenn

    Well I now know who wears the pants in Harperson House, it certainly is not Dromey, you can see how he topped the all female list in Birmingham, he was with her all the way from the NCCL through till this day, hiding behind her skirts, he has hung on her coattails and is still hiding, what has he got to hide.
    It is surprising that she did not think to offer advice to them that consorting with paedophiles, was not sensible even if not illegal.

  • Andy

    Harman is a very stupid, arrogant and nasty woman. We all know that when she became legal officer at the NCCL, PIE were already affiliated. Didn’t stop her taking the job did it ? The PIE remained affiliated throughout her time at the NCCL. She never thought to resign in protest, having never thought it was inappropriate to take the job in the first place. Indeed, the PIE remained affiliated for more than a year after this ghastly woman had left the NCCL.

    • 70sgirly

      On Newsnight Harman implied that “affiliated” membership meant PIE had little or no influence, they were one of thousands of affiliated members of NCCL.

      The Telegraph are now reporting much closer ties using hand written notes from NCCL’s own archive.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10661251/New-evidence-casts-doubt-on-Harriet-Harmans-defence-over-paedophile-links.html

      • Andy

        As the memos the Telegraph have published make clear this is not so. Arrogant Harman might regret they way she has handled this.

        And I hope the Daily Mail turn its attention towards the behaviour of Islington Council – leader one Margaret Hodge.

        • FrenchNewsonlin

          Finally its coming out in papers across the spectrum. Mirror goes on at length about Labour’s paedo elephant in the room; Guardian warned her she should take the stories seriously; Telegraph has a loony leftie Harman colleague recanting; Exaro website has been covering PIE and related child abuse for years; Guido’s going full tilt and several other websites have had this plus plenty of other gory details up for more than a decade. She’s a misguided mug if she thinks can bluster her way out now. Hopefully the stench of Harman will be gone by Easter.

          • Makroon

            Not that surprising. The Mirror class-war lads despise the champagne/Hampstead socialist collective (and that includes you too Ed).

        • sarah

          yes , I hope they do too very quickly … http://www.labour25.co.uk and http://www.chrisspivey.co.uk to see the truly horrifying truth of The Labour Party …

    • scampy1

      Tony the phony Blair had the sense to dump her fairly quickly?

      • sarah

        No , I don’t think so … he slapped a D – NOTICE on all newspapers to prevent Paedophiles in “high” places from being exposed by newspapers I think in about 2006 or 2007 .

  • Conway

    If we had to rely on the Bbc (sic) for our news, we would never have heard of it.

    • Andy

      You would have done had the odious bag Harman been a Tory. The BBC were only too quick to smear the innocent Lord McAlpine to deflect attention away from their own failings, for which they have not been properly called to account.

  • Swiss Bob

    Go to war with the Daily Mail at your peril

    So the message is that senior Labour figures didn’t really support the age of consent being reduced to four, it’s all a smear campaign by the Daily Mail?

    • saffrin

      For years or four months?

    • Cyril Sneer

      The left don’t seem to like smears. They don’t like it when their own dirty tricks are used on them. But anyway, this is about a major politician and her and her husbands links to a pedo group.

      Could you imagine if it had been a UKIP politician? Hahahaa Lefties don’t like it up them – get used to it, child pedo scandals are the lefts forte.

  • RavenRandom

    Why is this factually based historic story, against senior Labour politicians, not all over the BBC? Is it because they’d rather report false historical allegations against senior Conservatives as facts?

  • MikeBrighton

    Notice how the BBC reports the story (finally) not in terms of what Harman and Co’s response or investigating it themselves but in the context of what Harman’s response it’s to Daily Mail “claims”, leading with Harman’s claims of “smear and innuendo”. Remember how the BBC investigated the late Lord McAlpine that was in the context of investigating the (false) claims.

    • RavenRandom

      Typical BBC to not report the story but the Labour rebuttal. The BBC is not biased you know, not at all.

      • Wessex Man

        The Licence fee should be abolished, in an entirely different field, there were more BBC people at the Winter Games than there were UK competitors!

        • Makroon

          Ha-ha, the BBC keep wittering on about our “marvellous achievement” in scoring a “record equalling 4 medals”.
          In 1924, only 16 countries competed (excluding Germany) for a total of 49 medals.
          In 2014, 26 countries won medals, and the total number of medals was 295. So, we’ve gone from 8% of medals to 1.3% !

      • john p reid

        I don’t normally defend the BBC from accusations of bias, but the 2 BBC news men who rebutted this Nick Robinson and Andrew Neil are both tories,

    • HookesLaw

      What people need to do is go beyond this and check put all the stories involving labour councillors who have been involved in abuse cases. You will see that it mounts up.

    • James Chandler

      Every single other news outlet reported it in this way. Including other newspapers. Even Sky didn’t pick it up until the BBC did. But don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinions…

  • Daniel Maris

    “It’s difficult to imagine any other paper having the tenacity to splash on the same story repeatedly.” The Express has been leading on two stories: the weather and wonder cures for years! And the Daily Star did nothing but Big Brother stories for six weeks!!

  • Slim Jim

    I have a lot of respect for Andrew Pierce, and he has been asking the right questions. Harman is a typical poisonous lawyer-turned-politician. Never explain, never apologise. Hemlock and arsenic.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Exactly. Remember when the arrogant swine drove away from a traffic accident saying: “you know who I am”.

  • David Lindsay.

    Hark back to the Mail’s views on Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists in the 1930s. Viscount Rothermere, not unrelated to the current owner, published eight decades ago an article headlined “Hurrah for the Blackshirts”,
    I think a News of the World solution is called for.

    • Hello

      What, a rebrand?

    • Rhoda Klapp8

      HOW long ago???

    • Slim Jim

      An utterly ridiculous comment, but what did we expect from an apologist like you? Did the Mail support the war against Hitler?

      • john p reid

        Too little to late

    • Shinsei1967

      You don’t think the “eight decades ago” bit somewhat makes your point irrelevant.

      However it is a line you see almost daily in the Guardian, who feature tut-tutting about Daily Mail stories more than anyone else.

      If we were to hold newspapers to account for their views of almost a century ago then we would only be shocked at the Guardian’s espousal of eugenics and the sterilisation of the mentally ill.

    • MikeBrighton

      And your answer to the issue of leading labour MPs previously supporting / lobbying for / apologising for paedophiles is?

      As Quentin Letts says imagine if the were Tories and what the BBC / Guardian would say taking the late and falsely accused Lord McAlpine as a reference point

    • Ooh!MePurse!

      And the relevance of this is?

      • Cyril Sneer

        The left ‘argue’ like 12 year olds, and we all know how much they like 12 year olds.

    • D Whiggery

      And Time magazine named Hitler man of the year in 1938.

      Many people all over the world thought that fascism was a solution to the worlds problems at the time and a way to counter the greater evil that was bolshevism. They didn’t have the same benefit of hindsight that we do now.

      • john p reid

        Time magazine did it’s best to cover up JFKs assassination, smeared hose who tried to find the truth, let the Zebrugge film be hid for years and criticised those who tried to get the truth from coming out ,

        • Alexandrovich

          Zebrugge? Or did you mean Zapruda?

    • Pootles

      But what of the recent Labour MPs who created the British Union of Fascists – Oswald Mosley (Labour), Cynthia Mosley (Labour), Robert Forgan (Labour), John Beckett (Labour). The only other ex MP who helped form the BUF was W E D Allen (Unionist from N. Ireland, and an MI5 informer). When, oh when, etc etc is Labour going to apologise for all that …. (wrings hands)…

      • David Lindsay.

        The issue was the Mail:

        “The Daily Mail is a reactionary tabloid rag masquerading as a “traditional values,” middle-class newspaper that is, in many ways, the worst of the British gutter press (only Rupert Murdoch’s Sun is worse). Its weighty Sunday counterpart is the Mail on Sunday.

        The Daily Mail is to the U.K. what the New York Post is to the United States, and what the Drudge Report is to the Internet: to wit, gossipy tabloid “journalism” for those who cannot digest serious news, with a flippantly wingnut editorial stance. The Daily Mail is notable among British tabloids for rejecting the standard red-top banner order to try to appear more upmarket and respectable, although it does sometimes go in for the full front-page picture or headline characteristic of the working class rags. It is also notorious for its frequent harassment of individuals, campaigns of hate directed at various minorities, and willfully deceiving and lying to its readers.”

        And again

        It is also notorious for its frequent harassment of individuals, campaigns of hate directed at various minorities, and willfully deceiving and lying to its readers.

        • Barakzai

          Welcome back! The absence of Notes from The World According to Lindsay has impoverished this site.

          • Andy

            I wouldn’t go that far.

        • Pootles

          I don’t give a stuff about the Mail, either way. But what has the ‘Hurrah for the Blackshirts’ headline got to do with Harman, PIE and the NCCL ? It’s about as relevant to that as the fact that the key leaders of the BUF at the outset had only just left the Labour Party.

        • ButcombeMan

          Obviously the cavalry has ridden over the hill?

          Get a life Lindsay. get real.

          HH is done for, finished. She is surely the very definition of “Looney left”, yet she takes herself so seriously. Amazing.

          If she had only half a a brain she could have ducked out of it.

          Who on earth advised her to play it the way she has?

          To think, Labour puts her up, as the second in command, with her finger on the button, should Red Ed be sick.

        • Ooh!MePurse!

          And the relevance of this (utterly impartial and unbiased account) is? My opinion of the DM is the same as Pootles below. You however resort to typical leftie whataboutery in a vain attempt to deflect from the issue.

        • Ooh!MePurse!

          I wonder why I never see your name in Guardian discussions as that is clearly your natural habitat (and the EA haven’ t destroyed it yet).

          Incidentely if you visited CiF you would find anti- Harman posts outnumber pro posts by a ratio of about 8:1. That’s the Guardian!

        • Cosmo

          Wow Dave, your soooo “progressive”.

        • Wessex Man

          Pure Pravda, no wonder your books don’t sell!

          • The Laughing Cavalier

            He writes books?

            • The_greyhound

              You shouldn’t wipe your bottom on anything else.

            • Wessex Man

              Did you not know, he mentions it on nearly every post, all titles frequently available at good car boot sales.

        • MirthaTidville

          If its having a go at a vile, devisive, but non too bright erstwhile politico like Harman, whats not to like???

        • Cyril Sneer

          No the issue is major labour MP’s and the lefts link to child abuse.

          • rubyduck

            Genuine question. How clean are the Tories ?

            Could be a vote winner.

      • john p reid

        The Mosleys were both Tory before that, when are the Tories going to apologise for that, they tried to infultrate, the Labour Party, or the other NF members who were Tories, like the one who stood for parlaiment in 83′ Alan Clark said he use to vote NF at council elections, then there wasPowell,

        • Pootles

          You’ve missed the point – I was responding to David Lindsay’s irrelevant ‘Hurrah for the Blackshirts’ point with an equally irrelevant point about Labour from the same period. Of course, the real issue is Harman and her pals all working for the NCCL when it was quite happy to support PIE with affiliated status.

          As for Mosley being a Tory – yes, he was, from his election as MP for Harrow in the 1918 election (which he contested as a serviceman) until he crossed the floor of the House in November 1920. He became a major supporter of the ILP, pouring his money into it during the period of Clifford Allen’s leadership, and, of course, was a junior cabinet minister in the 1929 Labour government, in which he was regarded as a significant figure on the left. Cynthia Mosley was not a Tory, and was first elected to Parliament, as the Labour candidate for Stoke on Trent, in the 1929 election. As for the NF, in terms of the current Harman/Hewitt/Dromey, NCCL and PIE business, it seems that the NF actively campaigned against PIE – perhaps they had clearer vision on that than did Harman et al.

    • stewart

      So did the mirror ,in fact ive read they included membership forms in one editoin .If yoy dont believe me

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley
      So it must be true

    • Wessex Man

      Good old David, back after weeks, pumping out smears against The Mail from between the wars to try and close down the storm a brewing. It doesn’t work like that anymore David, go and write a book about it!

    • Cyril Sneer

      Hilarious. You do realise the Guardian also supported the blackshirts?

      So what you’re saying is that because the mail back in the 1930’s had an article titled ‘Hurrah for the Blackshirts” that makes it ok for Harman and her husband to have links and support for an organisation that wanted to legalise s e x with children?

      Please… go away you ignorant.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Time for you to crawl back under your stone. How very Leftist, a newspaper reports something you don’t like and your answer I “close it down”. You are the perfect spokesperson for Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

    • john p reid

      It was 40 years since the pie affiliation, but 70 years since Mosley, so the latter is O”.K?

      • City Blue

        The British left were pretty relaxed about blackshirts between Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the invasion of Russia. If Nazis were OK with Stalin they were OK with the British left.

        • john p reid

          I’m not a historian, but even I know it was the left who fought the blackshirts in cable street, etc

          • City Blue

            No You’re not a historian are you Reidy? The Battle of Cable Street was long before the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. I am making the point that once Moscow had made common cause with the Nazis, the Left went rather quiet. Hypocrites.

            • Pootles

              Actually, if we’re looking at the Communist Party of Great Britain, it didn’t go ‘rather quiet’, it actively campaigned for the Pact, and, once Poland was invaded and the UK declared war on Germany attacked the war effort as an ‘imperialist war’ – a position the CPGB held until Adolf invaded the USSR. On a slightly different note, the NCCL was itself a CPGB front organisation.

              • City Blue

                Thank you Pootles. Well put.

          • Pootles

            Resulting in a great boost to the BUF in the East End, which became the fascists’ stronghold in the UK.

  • Greenslime

    Quentin Letts’ spoof on how the BBC would have reported this had Mr & Mrs Harperson been Tories is spot on:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2564334/QUENTIN-LETTS-From-Today-Newsnight-Beebs-frenzy-Can-evil-Tories-survive-scandal.html

    • toco10

      Harman’s decision to refuse to apologise for her decision to join NCCL before the disgusting PIE was expelled is fundamentally flawed particularly given her husband the Labour MP Dromey was also associated with NCCL.Her decision to publish a MailOnline shot of an entirely innocent and potentially vulnerable eleven year old girl in a bikini taken three years ago is however pretty sinister from someone who has claims one day to have some influence over the rest of us.She is displaying signs of being a very dangerous,vindictive and unpleasant person who has no shame in using a photograph of a young girl to fight the Daily Mail.There never seems to be any objection from her when Red Ed rants on about the Conservatives in a series of vicious undignified class driven Marxist like attacks.

      • Ron Todd

        Was the NCCL tax payer funded and how much were they paying our future ruling class?

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Sinister. That is a pretty good word for summing up the Labour Party as a whole.

    • George_Arseborne

      Just read Mr. Lett’s article. Yawning!!!. Long, boring and childish. Zero substance because the smear against Harriet lacks gravitas and has not gain public grounds as they thought. Remember Milliband’s Dad? Bad journalism

      • sarahsmith232

        Lacks gravitas? Rubbish. Harman has made out that this was just some loose, insubstantial connection, it wasn’t. Her civil liberties group, now Liberty, was actively campaigning on behalf of PIE. According to a feminist that witnessed all of this (on yesterdays Daily Politics) there were some very loud voices, both in Liberty and outside of, aggressively protesting about this PIE being given a cloak of respectability by Liberty. They were the minority though, Harman and the rest of her Labour party ilk were refusing to condemn the homosexual males in PIE as nothing more than child abusers because they BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS HOMOPHOBIC.
        Now if you’re incapable of making a connection between this and their behaviour in power then –
        if repulsive, backward, misogynist, non too bright males assigned importance via their Mosque enter a University campus and dictate to the females of that campus that they must bend before them, then those females must do so. Because to do otherwise is showing an imperialistic intolerance towards difference.
        Not enough space but a person could go on. FGM, accommodating the demands of Islamists, unbending intolerance towards anyone who protested about the sanctifying of this accommodation. So much of their 13yrs in power was nothing more than a pack of Left-wing extremists with so little connection to reality that they believe refusing to condemn gay paedophiles, that were using Liberty to present themselves as an e.g of an oppressed minority group, as nothing more than repulsive child abusers, is an e.g of a worthy moral crusade. Oh, this all certainly is relevant now.

        • scampy1

          And bend over forward for cottaging labour style?

      • Greenslime

        It’s not an article. it is a ‘sketch’. It does not smear Mr and Mrs Harperson, it is a spoof diary of how the BBC might report this if the Harpersons and their friend Hewitt were Tories. The BBC is this morning trying to demonstrate that they are not biased and are not avoiding the subject but are continuing their desperate attempt to not report it factually. Evan once again showing his bias by referring to Mrs Harperson as, “Harriet” whilst in discussion with some other Labour has-been this morning.

        The fact is, that if this story had involved Tory MP’s instead of Labour, Labour (and the BBC) would have all over this, demanding suspensions, enquiries and all manner of other noise. Look at the kerfuffle they created over the Plebgate scandal – where they were completely wrong. Nor did Plebgate involve vulnerable victims – although the Met seems to have started to recruiting particularly sensitive recruits these days – Q. “Have you ever told a lie?” A. ” Er, yes”. “Excellent! When can you start?”.

        Another fact is that, whilst Mrs Dromey may be able to point to incidents where he made it clear he wasn’t happy, no trace can be found of Harperson saying or doing anything about PIE.

        Thirdly, if it is right for old men to have to account for themselves 40 years and more after an alleged offence (which it is), then it should be right for Harperson, a holder of high office and someone who seeks to run this country, to explain why she failed to protest about these perverts at the time. Saying things were different then, holds no more water for her than it does for the men who are currently attending the dock to explain themselves for things done years ago in a different environment.

        My final point is that the nub of her problem is the fact that she appears prepared to twist and turn like a twisty-turny-thing rather than ever admit that she might be wrong – and that is what worries me more than anything else. Like Hollande, what he did is not his worst offence, it is that he evaded and disembled – that shows a state of mind that should be held up to the light immediately it is discovered.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Firstly, I have serious doubts that you can read and probably dictated this rubbish to some fellow lefty. Second, bad journalism is not defined as journalism which exposes the Labour Party to scrutiny, revulsion and ridicule. Labour is, after all, the party of lies, lying and liars.

    • Makroon

      Problem is, much of the Mail readership will probably assume that the Letts’ spoof is the real story.

      • DaHitman

        Spot the Guardian reader

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Uh, are you telling me it isn’t? I assumed he had just toned things down a bit.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Oh it was a spoof. Oh dear, I thought it was a real report but that Letts had toned it down considerably so as not to make the BBC look too ridiculous.

      • Greenslime

        Yes. Confusingly misleading, but nonetheless a spoof! If you read it really carefully it becomes obvious, eventually.

    • john p reid

      Not really the mail have fabricated this story, due to Labour being ahead in the polls and they don’t like it, if the Tories were ahead in the polls and the BBC didn’t like it,they’d have dragged up stories about various Tories private lives ago,and made stuff up, the comparison with The Lord Mcalpine, saw the abBc apologise,I take it you want the mail to apologise for a smear campaign

      • Andy

        Please explain exactly what part of this story the Daily Mail has ‘fabricated’ ????

        I will tell you. NOT ONE WORD. Everything they have printed is true. If Harbag thinks it is wrong let her sue for libel.

        And as to poor Lord McAlpine he was maliciously libelled by the BBC and several people on the Left, who have paid dearly for that fact.

        • sarah

          yes , she likes a good legal argument … but wonder why not this one ?

Close
Can't find your Web ID? Click here