Coffee House

The moral of the Antarctic ship of fools: never treat a scientific debate as if it is closed

3 January 2014

7:02 PM

3 January 2014

7:02 PM

My tweet yesterday – ‘all saved from the ship of fools’ – has turned out to be premature. The havoc created by Professor Chris Turney’s Antarctic expedition  has since increased.  The Xue Long, the Chinese ship which provided the helicopter to airlift Turney and his colleagues from the Akademik Shokalskiy to the Aurora Australis, has itself now become stuck in ice. Meanwhile 22 Russian crew remain aboard the Shokalskiy. Both ships are stronger than the Endurance, Shackleton’s ship whose timbers were crushed in similar circumstances in 1915, prompting his famous voyage and trek to the whaling station on South Georgia, but both ships remain in danger from further movements of the ice.

Turney is no Shackleton, even if he does describe himself as ‘scientist, explorer and writer’ on his website. But hopefully he is enough of a scientist to learn the moral of this tale: never treat a scientific debate as if it is closed. On 23 September last year the Antarctic sea ice reached a new record of 19.51 million sq kilometres, the highest recorded since the US National Snow and Ice Data Center began keeping records in 1978. This does not of course on its own disprove the thesis of global warming, but it does show that the climate models used by Turney and his colleagues are way off beam. They predict that Antarctic sea ice, like that in the Arctic, should be shrinking.

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It is little wonder, with the science failing, that countries outside Europe are sceptical about committing themselves to hugely expensive carbon-reduction targets. The risks to their economies, they reason, are real, whereas the risks to the climate are much less clear, the apocalyptic predictions being stitched together from worst-case scenarios made by climatic models which have already proved to be deeply-flawed.

Our friend Tracy Rogers, Turney’s colleague at the University of New South Wales, has been commenting on her rescue.  ‘The Chinese captain is an incredible ambassador for his country,’ she said today. She is very lucky that China, which normally incurs the wrath of the climate change lobby due to its fondness  for new coal-fired power stations, has chosen the path to wealth – which includes ships and helicopters able to rescue scientists in distress – rather than a path to carbon-free enlightenment. Whatever the carbon footprint of the average Chinese person, it is a long, long way short of that of Chris Turney and his colleagues this week.

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  • DavidHarley

    Sorry, conservatives: Antarctic sea ice increase is because of weather, not climate

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/03/sorry-conservatives-antarctic-sea-ice-increase-is-because-of-weather-not-climate/

    • Uncle Brian

      You’re quite sure, are you, that the climate has nothing to do with the weather? And, conversely, that the weather has nothing to do with the climate?

    • Peter Stroud

      Perhaps, but the complete failure of the circulation models, is due to climate: not weather.

  • Sum1Lszfalt

    Looking at the 1912 and 2014 photo comparisons at climatedepot_com, It changes my opinion of the Prius now. I’m sure that it is only because of the Prius that the Anti-Artic has improved so much. We should all send a thank you letter to Toyota plus tell them we forgive Jaypan for Pearl Harbor.(sarc)

  • roger

    Don’t panic. It only gets serious after you have had to eat all the dogs.

  • tolpuddle1

    Look out of the window, Ross – it’s climate change isn’t it ?

    You idiots will still be denying climate change while you’re all being drowned.

    • dodgy

      I’ll worry about that when Gore begins selling his beach-front property…

    • Fergus Pickering

      There’s no snow outside my window. A lot of rain, it is true. When I was young, in the fifties and sixties, we had much more snow. And didn’t East Anglia flood in the early fifties?

      • tolpuddle1

        Many like you, Fergus, are trying desperately, but rather unsuccessfully, to imagine that our comfortable, affluent Western lifestyle is going to continue – hence your ostrich-postures when faced with the climate change, global weirding (and extreme climate events) that already afflicts us, quite aside from the question of global warming.

        But the likelihood of the West remaining prosperous is zilch % ; climate is the least of our worries ! There’s such a galaxy of other factors – economic, social and in international politics (to say nothing of the rising tides of anger, selfishness and confusion inside human minds) – that are ensuring the West’s collapse.

        So what’s the point of being a Sceptic, an Ostrich ?

        • Fergus Pickering

          I feel remarkably cheerful. You, on the contrary, sound utterly miserable. death comes to all, you know. That should cheer you up.

        • Fergus Pickering

          What do I care for the West, that grandiose fiction. I shall be dead in twenty years. My children can worry about that. I am sure they will find a way. I have great trust in the young. You obviously do not.

  • bengeo

    If global warming isn’t true, why would the politicians make a rod for their own back by saying it is true? A politician’s life is hard enough already.

    • dodgy

      …why would the politicians make a rod for their own back..?

      A rod for their own back? Do you know how much they are making from this scam? Look at Lord Debden. Look at Cameron’s father-in-law. Look at the huge amount of taxation they have been able to justify by saying ‘Climate Change’. Politicians LOVE to be able to increase taxes with no comeback and pose as Saviours of the World.

      Of course, it’s not only the politicians. The Bankers love the idea of running a carbon fund. The entire civil service is rubbing it’s hands at the prospect of regulation upon regulation. All the lobbyists and activists are having a field day – there are grants being handed out left, right and centre. Even Industry is being promised rich pickings with Carbon Sequestration projects and an entirely new generating grid.

      This is a huge bandwagon. All to be paid for by us in the future.

      Oh, and if you question it, you get sacked. Or not re-elected.

    • Fergus Pickering

      But who cares what politicians say? What special knowledge do they have? It seems to me that under the Global Warming hegemony the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer. Politicians are all among the rich.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …then why is it you support the global warmingists?

        • Fergus Pickering

          But I don’t, old fruit. You really must be drunk. I have never ever supported anything the global warmingists assert. Youare obviously thinking of someone else entirely.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …your buddy Dave is a global warmingist kook, as are all the Camerloons, and you support them.

            You really must be drunk.

  • dodgy

    Has anyone found out how this jolly was funded?

    Talking in round figures I have seen suggestions that it cost about £1.5m. They got about £0.5m from tickets and contributions, so presumably the BBC stumped up about £1m. The £0.5m is unlikely to have been private money – it probably came mainly from Greenpeace and government grants.

    The rescue looks to have cost about £0.4m already, (leaving two ships in the ice) and may well cost £1m before it is finished. I think that much of that will come from Australian taxpayers, and be deducted from the Australian Antarctic science budget – so real scientists will be going short for a few years….

    So we’re probably talking about a £2.5m complete waste of money. Small fry for Climate Change, I know. But it might prompt someone to ask questions…

  • SimonToo

    Go, Snow Dragon, go !

  • Greenslime

    It’s incessant. It’s the lack of balance that offends me.

    This morning on the Today problem a ‘climate scientist’ was positing that the foul weather which we are currently, er, enjoying is a direct result of the carbon that humans put into the atmosphere in the 90’s. This was allowed to be thrown in without response from the interviewer. No questions on the science on which this comment is based. Imagine the interrogation that Missy Mishal would have given had such a comment been made by someone who questions the hysteria. Only yesterday, someone was put under the cosh by her to admit that simpler is not simple and that teddy bear was shaken to death by her before she threw it out of the pram when she did not achieve agreement from the interviewee. The final words came from her; “so simpler doesn’t mean simple”!

    I want to know the facts. I don’t want to know the Today presenter’s opinions. Nor do I want to know what some climate scientist ‘thinks’. Their demands that I accept as factual what they say without further ado is the worst form of dictatorship. I’m not a denier but I remember that it was scientists who told us that it was safe for bovines to eat the rendered remains of other bovines – and look where that got us! And I also remember that we have had bad weather before – the weather was so bad in 1938 that the RAF was unable to train its pilots during most of it, which had a direct consequence on the number of experienced pilots in 1939 and 40. The bad winters of 1947 and 1963 are still record breakers.

    By all means, let’s have good interrogative interviews which root out nonsense. But please, please, please, keep it balanced and don’t just force down our throats the soft left agenda which is currently de rigeur on the Today programme.

    • Tom M

      If you wish to know the facts then you should do something about it. They won’t drop into your lap. If you just listen to the BBC and suchlike you will get a very skewed view.
      Can I suggest you read some of the excellent literature on the subject (suggestions below). If you do read any other literature on the subject make sure that it’s claims are attributed (not the case for the warmers unfortunately they usually rely on emotion and anecdote to present their case.) Avoid protest groups websites (that’s most climate websites by the way). They always start with the conclusion then adjust the facts to back it up. Do Not listen to ANY politician on the subject.
      “The age of Global Warming” by Rupert Darwall
      “The Delinquant Teenager” by Donna Laframboise
      “The Real Global Warming Disaster” by Chris Booker
      “The Hockey Stick Illusion” by AW Montford

      • starfish

        All excellent suggestions. Loads of web resources too. ‘Watts up with that’ and bishop hill (montford’s blog) are my favourites and provide links to others. I also like them because they encorage debate and do not censor/edit/delete contrary opinion which is sadly the case for most Warmist sites and of course the Grauniad which cannot tolerate opinion that follows anything other that strict catastrophic orthodoxy

      • Greenslime

        Duly noted and thanks for the list which I will take a look at. But you miss my point. The BBC has a statutory duty to be balanced and unbiased. It rarely attends to this duty. Most people do not have the inclination to pick over what they hear or see from the BBC. This leads to many being badly informed. Throwaway comments are delivered as fact and dodgy statistics are sprayed from the Today programme by ‘climate experts’ with absolute and unquestioning acceptance. Balance doesn’t get an airing or else it is usually presented as demented and akin to race or religious hatred.

        • Tom M

          Quite agree. But it’s not so long ago that the BBC took a conscious decision NOT to allow debate on climate change or global warming on the airwaves.

          The reasoning behind this was that the management decided that such “debates” usually turned into fierce arguments so they stopped it altogether.

  • drjohngalan

    A ship of climate scientists and hangers-on gets stuck in the Antarctic ice in summer. On board are several journalists, a BBC producer and a film crew. They have satellite links. To quote from JoNova’s blog: “Never before in modern satellite media communications has it taken so many journalists to say so little, so slowly and so vaguely.”

    This morning on BBC Breakfast they were still describing the people rescued as “passengers”, as if they were on some sort of tourist jolly, not climate scientists on an exercise to highlight the effects of global warming on the Antarctic ice.

    The lack of proper reporting in almost all of the mainstream media highlights how the global warming scam is still being pushed, despite the abject failure of almost every dire prediction made. Global temperature has not gone up for at least 15 years, sea ice has not diminished, hurricanes and tornadoes are no more frequent. Meanwhile the rich landowners get paid for their windmills and pensioners die from fuel poverty, all in the name of the saving the planet from a non-existent threat.

    • Daniel Maris

      Fair comment. It does appear there has been a cover up about the purpose of the voyage.

      • RobertC

        Didn’t they go to conduct a polar bear census?

        • drjohngalan

          Amazingly, they found none at all. This result was recorded as irrefutable proof of human-caused global warming (and reported to Al Gore).

          • Daniel Maris

            Ho-not-ho. Save it for the saloon bar.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …most of the saloon goers are less ignorant and poorly educated than you, lad.

              • Daniel Maris

                Why would we listen to you? – you’re just the slops boy clearing up the slops in the saloon bar.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …no, that job is reserved for the ignorant and poorly educated, lad.

                  Like you for example.

                • Daniel Maris

                  …no that job is reserved for the broken down alcoholics who can’t find employment anywhere else these days despite all the years of service they devoted to the oil and gas industry.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, even those people are more in demand than the ignorant and poorly educated, like you for example.

    • Bill McInroy

      This is what makes me despair of the BBC. I noticed that selective reporting, I only hope that many others did too.

  • Gail Campbell

    I’m sure they will find a way to twist it onto something they can exploit. In the meantime LMAO. They should have to pay for their own rescue AND pay compensation for any disruption of the genuine scientists trying to do real research.

    • Holly

      Now that I agree with…Make THEM pay the FULL costs.

  • Daniel Maris

    Whether it is a ship of fools remains to be seen. This is also the year of the hottest summer since records began in Australia. And over the last 5 years we have had some of the stormiest weather ever in winter.

    I’ve no view one way or the other about AGW but I prefer to keep an open mind.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …you socialist nutters prefer to keep global warmingism on your mind, so you can destroy as much freedom and liberty as possible.

      • Daniel Maris

        Well fortunately most people don’t actually follow your deranged thought trails. So you’re irrelevant to the discussion.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Actually, if you notice, lad, most people don’t follow your ignorant and poorly educated socialist nuttery .

          • dalai guevara

            Hahaha, yes tovarishch, we get it now.

            Some ‘boat’ gets stuck in the ice (this is scientific proof of what?), some housewife get top marks for laughing, and you tovarishch, you double your dismal vote count by posting hilarious and repetitive waffle as if this blog was bogroll?

            What’s the story, did the scientists or any clear thinkers for that matter miss anything? One will be inclined to negate this rhetorical question.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Can we get a package deal on the translations for this pair of socialist nutters?

              • dalai guevara

                What did I miss, tovarishch?
                A boat with what, Grauniad reporters and third rate scientists, got stuck in ice? Honestly? This is news for you? Proving that the globe is cooling? Honestly?

                Kewl dude, I would like to know what you’re smoking. Where can I get some.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …we’d rather not pay for translation by the word, though. Obviously, that would be far too costly.

    • Michele Keighley

      Eer … reference that claim by the BoM – as you have an open mind you might like to read this:

      http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/17/auditing-the-adjusting-of-acorn-temperature-down-under/?relatedposts_exclude=59226

      • HookesLaw

        Good point. The original Alice Springs recod shows no warming trend – but the ‘adjusted’ one does. Anyone with an open mind would smell a rat.

        • Daniel Maris

          So you don’t believe the farmers then?

          “Importantly, R&D for adaptation in a changing and more extreme climate will continue to be required.”

          So said the Australian farmers’ federation (NFF).

    • ugly_fish

      Let’s get this “hottest summer” into perspective. They take the raw data and “process” them, finessing the temperatures to hundredths and thousands of a degree. 2013 was the “hottest summer” by all of 0.17 deg C. Pretty meaningless, IMHO.

      • starfish

        More importantly they process the readingsvin such a way that only increases in temperature are preserved or created. Watts up with that has loads of data on how its done comparing true raw data with the temperature series that are published. Australia and new zealand warmists are particular exponents

    • Guenier

      DM: see my comment above (a few minutes ago). Re you preference “to keep an open mind”, here’s what Xie Zhenhua said: “We have to have an open attitude to the scientific research. There’s an alternative view that climate change is caused by cyclical trends in nature itself. We have to keep an open attitude.”

      You and China seem to be at one on this. Do you also agree with their (and the other “developing economies”) determination to continue to rely massively on fossil fuels for the foreseeable future?

      • Daniel Maris

        China is desperately trying to reduce its use of carbon fuels because it is so politically dangerous now. You are in for surprises in 2014 –

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/strong-confirmation-of-cherokees-backing-of-the-e-cat-from-china/

        • Guenier

          DM: no, it’s not. For example, at pre Warsaw negotiations in Bonn (May 2013), China’s chief negotiator, Su Wei, confirmed that “China could not impose caps on its rising emissions because it needed time to focus on economic growth”.** And this position was reiterated at the Warsaw conference when Xie Zhenhua (see above) stressed that China’s increased emissions were “inevitable as the country goes through necessary industrialisation as it develops.” ***

          ** http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/05/03/climate-talks-idINDEE9420DM20130503

          *** http://www.rtcc.org/2013/11/20/divide-between-rich-and-poor-at-un-climate-talks-as-wide-as-ever/

          • Daniel Maris

            Yes, they value GDP growth over reducing emissions but they are seriously looking for ways to reduce emissions, hence their interest in LENR.

            • Guenier

              “Seriously looking” – hmm, I doubt it. Just consider their massive and continuing investment in coal-fired power plant: “as much as is currently generated with coal in America, Japan and the European Union put together”.** And its plans for 70 new airports and the expansion of 100 current airports (all while we’re agonising over one new runway). *** Hardly “desperately trying to reduce its use of carbon fuels” as you asserted above.

              ** http://www.economist.com/node/18010727?story_id=18010727&fsrc=rss
              *** http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/9324765/China-to-build-70-new-airports-in-three-years.html

              • Daniel Maris

                “Wind Power: China ranks 1st in the world in installed wind power capacity, with
                75 GW. China is also the world’s fastest-growing installer of wind, and it aims
                to have 100 GW of wind installed by 2015.”

                It’s aiming to virtually double its renewable energy percentage by 2020.

                I should though have added the words “while still maintaining GDP growth”. But this is why I think it’s looking at LENR.

                • Guenier

                  Your information is broadly accurate. But it looks rather different when put into context. Yes, China says that it aims to have 100 GW installed capacity by 2015. That (if it happens) would be 100 GW x 8760 (hours pa) = 876 TWh. Assuming 25% utilisation, that’s 219 TWh pa. China’s electricity output was 4692 TWh in 2011. It’s likely to be considerably more in 2015. But, even if it were not, 219 TWh would be only 4.7% of total generation. Compare that, for example, with the UK which in 2012 generated 5.4% from wind – and no one regards that as at all impressive. Quite the contrary.

                  The picture for China may even be rather worse. See this report: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/758511.shtml. 61 GW installed in 2012 = 2% of power. Therefore 100 GW would be only 3.3%. Furthermore, note the many obstacles referred to – especially grid connection barriers. Also see this: http://alfin2300.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/chinas-great-green-bubble-of-overbuilt.html: “One-quarter of China’s wind farms are not connected to a power grid …”

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  There are reasons nations such as China hew to alternative energy, as opposed to most Western nations. Unfortunately, you’re too ignorant and poorly educated to know what those reasons are.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Fortunately I’m not and can see through you like plate glass on a clear day.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, as we’ve previously established, you are ignorant and poorly educated, and have no ability to see much of anything.

    • RaymondDance

      “This is also the year of the hottest summer since records began in Australia”

      Only if you believe that a) all historic measurements were made with faulty thermometers, and b) the environments in which those thermometers are sited have not changed since the 1930s.

      • Daniel Maris

        Take it up with the Bureau of Meterology not me. Why do you think you know better than the Bureau of Meterology by the way?

        Or if you don’t believe them, believe the farmers:

        “WAFarmers does recognise the reality of climate change and believes Australian
        agriculture has the potential to contribute to solutions.”
        http://www.wafarmers.org.au/carbon-tax-repeal-legislation-welcome/

        • RobertC

          Climate Change, or Catastrophic Man-made Global Warming?

          The Earth’s climate has been changing for millions of years.

          • Daniel Maris

            Of course. And at times it has got appreciably cooler or warmer on average for varying periods. Humans have certainly affected climate in some areas e.g. desertification resulting from removal of vegetation (which can also effect rainfall in other parts). So the idea of humans affecting the weather is not new.

        • notme3

          “WAFarmers does recognise the reality of climate change and believes Australian
          agriculture has the potential to contribute to solutions.”

          That means the opposite. It means, “if you are willing to pay us to do something we will.”

          • Daniel Maris

            OK, you accuse them of lying. So the meterologists are lying and the farmers.

            • notme3

              they arent lying, they are doing what we all do, acting in their own interests.

    • global city

      No we haven’t. None of those incidents you list were record breakers and extreme weather has not increased.

      Misinformation, or lies.. what are you about?

      • Daniel Maris

        Take it up with the Australian Bureau of Metereology rather than me mate. And no need for the insults.

        “Dr David Jones, the manager of climate monitoring and prediction at the bureau, told Guardian Australia that the warming trend in Australia “is very clear”.

        “We have had warm excursions before but if you look at the warm and cool anomalies, we’re now on a higher trend with higher benchmarks,” he said.

        “We are now seeing temperatures unprecedented in our records. It was the warmest-ever year last year by some degree.” “

        • ugly_fish

          By 0.17 deg C. to be precise.

          • Daniel Maris

            Well at least you aren’t claiming to know better than the Bureau of Meterology.

        • zakisbak

          Yes,but it’s all selective isn’t it?
          And adjusted.
          A bit like the hockey stick disappearing warm period bump.

          I find your implacable faith in scientists rather touching.

          Personally,I reckon temperatures will change,as they always have done.
          Coastlines will rise and fall,as they always have done.
          Ice will come and go,as it always has done.

          • Daniel Maris

            What, you’re an expert on Australian climate are you?

  • Colonel Mustard

    They missed the opportunity to become martyrs to their cause. Turney might have headed off alone across the ice, telling the others that he might be some time. But I suppose when you are only pretending to be a pioneer the dual benefits of that soft, privileged taxpayer funded do-good comfort is just too hard to abandon.

    • Makroon

      When it comes to being a sanctimonious ass-hole, the Aussies do it best.
      See John Pilger.

      • Greenslime

        How do you know when a plane load of Aussies has arrived at the airport? It keeps whining when they turn the engines off!

  • Guenier

    It’s richly ironic that it should be the Chinese who rescued these foolish people. It was China that – as leader of the so-called “developing economies” – inflicted humiliating defeat on the West at the UN’s “make or break” climate conference in Copenhagen in 2009. And China, with the “developing” economies, made it clear at the Warsaw conference a few weeks ago that it has no intention of reducing its CO2 emissions in the foreseeable future.

    Yet the UK, with its tiny 1.3% share of global emissions (China is responsible for 27%), pathetically believes it is leading the world with its hugely expensive, potentially disastrous and completely pointless Climate Change Act.

    The Clitanic incident may be entertaining – but the issues at stake are deadly serious.

    • Daniel Maris

      It’s also China that faces a political crisis over pollution.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …which has nothing to do with your global warmingist insanity, lad.

        • Daniel Maris

          As I have made plain I am completely agnostic on AGW,not that that would worry you since facts have no meaning for you.

          • Guenier

            DM: it’s interesting that you’re “completely agnostic on AGW”, putting you in the same camp as Ding Zhongli, VP of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, who observed recently that a significant relationship between temperature and CO2 “lacks reliable evidence in science” – a view echoed by Xie Zhenhua who led China’s delegation at the Warsaw conference to which I referred above. In contrast, even Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT – probably the West’s leading sceptical scientist – agrees that mankind has contributed to the recent global temperature increase.

            • Daniel Maris

              Thank you for putting me in such august company! :)

              Whenever I have looked into the facts of climate change, I have always felt it’s a case of the more we find out, the less we know and you can’t really trust any measurement – particularly, I would say, anything relating to “apparent” sea level, which is subject to all sorts of factors.

              On the other hand, my impression is that weather patterns are a lot more erratic and extreme than they were 40 years or more ago.

              • Guenier

                Yes, I agree – although, from my (limited) understanding of the science, I’m more inclined to accept Richard Lindzen’s view than Ding Zhongli’s. Are global weather patterns “a lot more erratic and extreme than they were 40 years or more ago”? Maybe. But I rather doubt it.

                But I have little doubt about one related matter: as I said above, the UK’s Climate Change Act is hugely expensive, potentially disastrous and completely pointless.

                • Tom M

                  You are confusing weather and climate which are two distinctly different things.

                • Daniel Maris

                  No I’m not – and they are not “distinctly” different things – weather merges into climate. Any definition of “climate” is arbitrary, depending on the timescale you wish to use – is it one year, 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years, 1 million years?

                  I referred to weather patterns which if you like are an intermediary concept.

                • Guenier

                  No, Tom, its Daniel who’s confusing them – I was responding to him. (BTW I agree that they’re distinctly different.)

            • AndyWilson

              I’ve met the good Professor and think that his views are not quite as You say. He does believe that we’ve contributed – a bit. What we are being asked to believe, though, is that we’re the major cause of recent ‘anomalies’. That, I’m pretty sure, be doesn’t believe.

              • Guenier

                I too have met him – a lovely man. You’re belief (“I’m pretty sure”) is accurate: he doesn’t subscribe to the view that mankind is the main cause of recent temperature increases. I don’t think I said that they were.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …yes, you’re “agnostic”, meaning you practice envirowhacko taqqiya .

            • Daniel Maris

              …and as if to make the point clear, your post has nothing to do with this thread – as per usual.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Except that you couldn’t know that, one way or another, as you’re an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter, as we’ve previously established.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  You live on the tar sands. What are they?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …just what are you blathering about now, lad?

        • Makroon

          Correct. China is spending a lot of money on environmental clean-up and quite a bit on alternative energy, but they are pragmatic (like we were once), and not “true believers” – not in communism, not in AGR.

        • Daniel Maris

          …and your comment has nothing to do with this discussion – as per usual.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …not that an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter like you would know either way, lad.

            • Daniel Maris

              …and your comment has nothing to do with this discussion – as per usual.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …but you’re ignorant and poorly educated, and couldn’t know that, one way or another.

  • In2minds

    ‘Let the polluter pay’ is one of those snappy remarks that may yet come to haunt Turney and Rogers the two ‘scientists’ in charge of this jolly. How about a look at the money trail behind this trip, who has paid what to fund it and how much did the rescue cost?

    • FrenchNewsonlin

      Let’s hope the costs of the rescue operation are billed in full to the Church of Climate Changeology and all its loony priests with Turney, his apostles and media co-conspirators paying nine tithes.

  • HFC

    Have I missed something? Did the ice that eventually trapped the Russian ship materialise quite suddenly or had they not spotted it as they travelled across the bay?

    Or was that silly woman on BBC World at One the other day right when she suggested it was old ice in the bay that had unexpectedly – but due to climate change – fallen of the glacier; it wasn’t new ice at all, she said.

    Eithar way, they might have seen it coming and taken evasive action, couldn’t they?

    • Daniel Maris

      There’s a clue in the name: Icebreaker.

      • Jabez Foodbotham

        The trapped Academician Whatsisname is an ice-strengthened ship, not an a icebreaker, it’s a different beast.

        • Darnell Jackson

          Yes, but facts have no meaning for him.

        • global city

          but were the other ships proper ice breakers?

        • Daniel Maris

          HFC was not referring to the climate changers’ ship.Pay attention.

  • RavenRandom

    The story that keeps giving. Funny beyond words. BBC not saying much I see.

    • Michele Keighley

      Have you checked out the Asian pages? I found an article on it there rather than the Environmental page as per previously – nothing quite like a sleight of hand to hide things in full view 😉

  • dalai guevara

    In the meantime, how’s the switching providers thingy working out for you?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Now, if they’d have just had a windmill on that envirowhacko ship, their problems would’ve been solved forever.

      • Daniel Maris
        • the viceroy’s gin

          …as if anybody is going to click on a link one of you socialist nutters plasters in here. Really, son .

          • Daniel Maris

            Please don’t. I’ll reproduce it at the appropriate time.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …I can see we’re going to have to find a translator for your socialist gibberish, as well.

              • Daniel Maris

                Recommendation: one measure per hour.

                Latest news: US Department of Energy is inviting LENR projects for funding.

                So add DOE to your list of socialist nutters (same agency that gave us fracking as we know it).

                • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

                  you can add, Toyota, Mitsubishi, National instruments, ST Micro, Elforsk (Swedish Research consortium of socialist companies), DoD, US navy NRL, US Navy Spawar, University of Missouri, CEA, BARC,SRI,ENEA…

                  http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/

                  for more scientific analysis of that crazy story

                  http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf

                  good reading,
                  hope this helps

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Government agencies didn’t invent drilling for oil and gas, laddie, to include fracking. You’d be too ignorant and poorly educated to know that, obviously.

                  They do plunge nations into massive debt with their envirowhacko kookery, however.

                • dalai guevara

                  Plunge nations into debt by doing what?
                  Generating energy on home soil rather than importing MWh from abroad? Now there’s ‘the expert’ on a roll again, delivering economic and technical illiteracy combined, in a nutshell.
                  Keep up the good work.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Is there some particular reason you feel obliged to plaster your non-sensical socialist nuttery after my posts, lad?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …wait, I did mention “envirowhacko kookery”… and that may have been the lure for you.

  • Julieann Carter

    I did laugh, I must admit. But then one considers those who have lost their lives ,directly and indirectly, as a consequence of the climate jihadists and related policies and regulations. Then one thinks of the fuel poverty thousands are suffering as a result of green taxes.
    I’m glad their jolly came a cropper, but frustrated at the amount of our money that no doubt will continue to fill their coffers, for the long term.

    • John WB

      And also don’t forget Turney himself has set up a company to fill his own coffers, which is supposedly going to “extract carbon dioxide from the air”.

      Pigs at the trough, every last one of them.

      • Julieann Carter

        And this is where the debate (for want of a better word)’ does not happen. We are ‘what they say’ – to be accepted as Gospel – we are not told ‘who they are’ in terms of vested interest.

    • Drabble

      Global warming identified by Wateringbury Vicar (1895) /
      Extract from Parish magazine of October 1895

      The chief excitement of the month has been the fires that have occurred in the neighbourhood: three at Wateringbury and several others not far distant, within a short period. They have been due probably to careless smokers and the exceedingly dry state of the ground. A shade temperature ranging from 75 to 85 many successive days is a record of heat for the end of September. What can have have happened to the warming apparatus of our universe? The sun to-day (September 30th) is at the same height in the heavens as it is about the middle of March !

  • obiwan

    “…Whatever the carbon footprint of the average Chinese person, it is a long, long way short of that of Chris Turney and his colleagues this week.”

    True, but I fear the irony will be all but lost on Turney and motley crew. Never mind, his antics and those of his fellow travelers in the Antarctic over the Christmas break have provided hours of fun and entertainment for climate sceptics everywhere. Another glorious own goal for team Warmist, lol. Yet another car-crash event courtesy of The Holy Consensus.

    • HookesLaw

      Lets not forget its summer down there…. they got stuck in unexpected ice in summer.

      The antics show that the purpose of these climate warmists is to make money out of a scam. Turney’s business plan is or was to make money by somehow mysteriously, and allegedly efficiently, taking the carbon out of the atmosphere and putting it somewhere else. Given that CO2 (of which the ‘C’ itself is only 1 of 3 molecules) is only 400 parts per MILLION, his equipment would have to be pretty efficient at finding it in the first place.

      We can of course imagine the huge rack up of publicity from his tame BBC and Guardian guests if they had managed to find the slightest evidence of less ice on their summertime voyage. We can imagine that such a fortuitous (for them) discrepancy would not have been couched in factors relating to winds and currents.

      • RavenRandom

        Yes it was bad science. They started with a conclusion. They are now ignoring the disconfirming facts. No doubt they would have overplayed even the tiniest info that hinted at slightly less ice.

        • dodgy

          Actually, they’re already arguing that global warming means more precipitation which means more ice. (Only in the Antarctic, though – not the Arctic.) And that this was so unexpected (only by them) that it is another extreme weather variation caused by climate change…

          • Chris Morriss

            The amount of sea ice in the Arctic (except that on Greenland) doesn’t affect the sea level one little bit. The increasing Antarctic ice cap is likely to lower sea levels.

            • dodgy

              I’m waiting for them to argue that FALLING sea levels are a result of Global Warming and will herald the end of the world. Or sea levels staying the same….

        • JoeDM

          They are not interested in science only politics.

          • Daniel Maris

            And yet… it was the hottest ever year in Australia last year, matching a previous record in 2005.

            • Michele Keighley

              And our BoM had to change their method of recording data to get it too. Fancy that!!

            • HookesLaw

              And America is experiencing record colds.

              • Daniel Maris

                And you know nothing about climate. The following I don’t endorse, but I put it forward to show there could be various mechanisms by which general warming produces colder conditions in some parts.

                http://news.sciencemag.org/2012/01/global-warming-may-trigger-winter-cooling

                “First, the strong warming in the Arctic in recent decades, among other factors, has triggered widespread melting of sea ice. More open water in the Arctic Ocean has led to more evaporation, which moisturizes the overlying
                atmosphere, the researchers say. Previous studies have linked warmer-than-average summer months to increased cloudiness over the ocean during the following autumn. That, in turn, triggers increased snow coverage in Siberia
                as winter approaches. As it turns out, the researchers found, snow cover in October has the largest effect on climate in subsequent months.

                That’s because widespread autumn snow cover in Siberia strengthens a semipermanent high-pressure system called, appropriately enough, the Siberian high, which reinforces a climate phenomenon called the Arctic Oscillation and
                steers frigid air southward to midlatitude regions throughout the winter.”

            • RavenRandom

              Well that settles it then. Ignore the cold elsewhere focus only on what confirms your prejudice.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …and yet your buds the Camerloons still jabber approvingly over the global warmingist scam. I bet if we look close, your Camerluvvie mates probably helped fund this expedition somehow. We know they lovingly fund the BBC, their bubble mates.

        • HookesLaw

          Ah – old Jonny one-note turns up again like a bad smell.
          So what? Your observation only proves that they are not my ‘buds’. They are my most favoured political party.
          ‘They’ do not fund the BBC the licence fee does and it has been frozen for years.
          Stick to hob-nobbing with the grand Wizard – all thick bigots to gether.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Of course the Camerluvvies are our buds, lad. You swoon over them, and they swoon over the global warming kookiness, like all you socialists.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Would you tell me, dear sir, who is NOT a socialist. Besides you and Attila the Hun, that is.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Well, it’s easier to tell who is a socialist. We can start with you.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Oh God! He’s still pissed. Do you know there is nobody else in the whole world who supposes I am a socialist?But what would that matter to you. Being in a minority of one is your foible. Except for Attila, that is. And shall I tell you something. That bugger’s dead.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  That reminds me of that story back in 1972, after the US presidential election. A young conservative journalist (rare then, as now) was discussing the election results in Manhattan with a typical member of the bien pensant crowd there, who lamented “How could Nixon have won, I don’t know anybody who voted for him!”

                  You socialists are like that. You only see what you want to see.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I voted for Cameron. And before that I voted for whatever Tory was available. Always. Who did you vote for? Attila wasn’t standing. He’s dead I tell you.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …your buddy Dave is a socialist, like all the LibLabCon clones.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  But who did you vote for, eh>

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No need for distracting games of 20 questions. Suffice to say I don’t vote for socialists, even if you do

                • Daniel Maris

                  He’s not allowed to vote. He’s North American. Lives in the tar sands.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Thank you, Daniel. A foreigner, then. So many Americans are quite whacko, I find.

                • Daniel Maris

                  You obviously loved the Old Quaker didn’t you?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …can another of you socialist nutters translate this gibberish?

      • Michele Keighley

        Instead he focused on the number of penguins!! Apparently their numbers are declining drastically due to the impact of Global Warming.

        • alabenn

          Maybe the Penguins died of cold.

      • tolpuddle1

        So the Arctic ice isn’t melting ? So methane isn’t starting to escape from the sea floors ? It’s all a scam ?

        No – you’re the politically-motivated imbeciles; the scientists aren’t.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Everybody is politically motivated,old son. The scientists, like anyone else. Nobody is going to vote to put himself out of a job.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …yes, that’s how you socialists work it.

    • Daniel Maris

      That reminds me of the time that someone worked out the carbon cost per band member of the Radiohead eco tour. It was something like 10,000 times the average person’s lifetime carbon emissions. :)

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