Blogs Coffee House

Nigel Farage missed the point about ‘young, able women’

20 January 2014

4:09 PM

20 January 2014

4:09 PM

Nigel Farage isn’t afraid ‘to court controversy’ over the issue of women’s pay. Speaking on the issue of equal pay, he described how a pay gap exists because women who have children are ‘worth less’ to their employer than men. This may well be true; it’s a high-octane industry, and anyone who flakes out – man or woman – is clearly worth less than someone who slogs away for years. But then Farage goes onto say the following:

‘I do not believe there is any discrimination against women at all… And young, able women who are prepared to sacrifice the family life and stick to their career will do as well or better than men.’

Farage appears to think that ‘young, able women’ aren’t saddled with a sign around their neck that reads ‘May have baby one day’, which is deluded. Young, able women have to contend with this question every day. But there is no way for them to answer it. There is no way of telling whether a woman will decide to have children – it’s a private matter and should never have to be disclosed. This unanswerable question contributes, in its own small way, to the gender pay gap.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • Cornelius Bonkers

    Well with all due respect LP, how can having a child be a private matter when someone else will be paying for it? By all means make it a private matter if it IS a private matter. Oh! and of course, there’s no way of answering the question of choice because it’s unanswerable and therefore a REALITY which needs recognising rather than ignoring which is what you seem to want employers to do. All young women are potential mothers and therefore for some enterprises (especially small and medium size ones) problematic employees. Or have I missed something here?

  • JumpShip

    I am a young woman with two small children and I run my own company. I have taken a hit on my earnings during pregnancy and in the months after childbirth but I have not at any point stopped working. I work when the children are asleep and I am fortunate to have a husband who also works from home, such that we juggle things between us to somehow put in a full working week each and be parents. I feel strongly that my family will be much better off if I keep earning. I also think being able to be a parent without this pressure of work, at least whilst they are very young, would be very desirable.

    Being self employed (and in any event), I think expecting employers to pay you whilst you go and have babies is totally unjustifiable. Parents should make sure they are in a position to provide for themselves during this period, rather than relying on employers. If absolutely necessary, statutory maternity allowance could be increased somewhat to ensure any support came from the government rather than employers. On the other hand, the reason I have been able to maintain my business is because I am sufficiently valued by my clients and because I am able to work completely flexibly. Employers could help themselves by allowing more flexibility. Having said that, many women who have always been employed will take advantage because they have the “employed mentality”. There is nothing like self employment for sharpening focus and developing self motivation and discipline.

    When it comes down to it, however, it is entirely normal and, frankly, to be encouraged for women to have children. And it is also normal and, in my opinion, much better for children and for society if at least one parent is available to be a parent, particularly whilst children are pre-school age. We might have communities again if both parents were not always working and children always in care or before and after school clubs. Most people do not have “careers”, they have jobs. And they do them to earn money. Which is where we come to the nub of the problem, which is not the biological differences between men and women but rather the fact that we have created a society where two incomes are required per household to maintain a reasonable standard of living. If this were not so, then mothers wouldn’t need employers to fund their maternity leave because they and their husbands would be able to afford to fund themselves.

    So to my mind the solution is simple – restrict mortgages to one income (and no more than three times that income) and a maximum of 80% of the property value. (And yes, I realise what this would do to house prices).

  • Marcus

    Farage said that women DO have a sign around thier neck saying ‘May have baby one day’.
    That’s why they get paid less, that and the fact that most women do disappear in their 30s at their peak of training, for 5+ yrs to have children.

    That’s his point and it’s not a private matter when everyone in your small business has to cover for you for over 5 yrs.

    The question is what do we do about it whilst remaining competitive?

    Purposefully misinterpreting what he said is irksome.

  • wchancellor

    One look at Lara’s avatar, and I’ve decided not to comment.

  • artemis in france

    I think employers should be able to ask if a woman intends to try to have a family in the foreseeable future and if so what kind of future she envisages with the company afterwards. Any comment made should be noted and the woman should be informed of the restrictions which will apply in her case should she not conform to her stated aims. If she says she has no intention of falling pregnant but still does and goes on to have the child she should forfeit any spécial treatment at all. By the same token I think men should be quizzed about their future intentions should they become a father. With all the nonsense being spoken about paternity leave as well, employers have a right to know what to expect. Fathers should have to abide by their amis too.

  • tjmac7

    Shared parental leave leaves young women and all men ‘saddled with a sign around their neck’. And to think it was spun as a benefit to fathers.

  • Bill Brinsmead

    A beer hall rant from Nigel in the European Parliament is followed by a ‘Kinder, Küche, Kirche’ moment. What next?

    • Daniel Maris

      Are you a Germanophobe?

  • john king

    Mr Farage did not “miss the point”. He made a statement that is obviously true,(albeit in a non politically correct manner which i for one applaud).

  • wudyermucuss

    Everything Farage said is true.

    That is his crime,that is why the establishment hate him.

    • Makroon

      Yeah, “everything Farage said is true”, he is the sage of Herne.
      But would you buy a used car from him ?
      You might be better off going back to idolising Elvis.

  • saffrin

    Well said Nigel. Lara just failed to understand the quote she publicised is all.

  • HJ777

    “Farage appears to think that ‘young, able women’ aren’t saddled with a sign around their neck that reads ‘May have baby one day’, which is deluded. ”

    What evidence is there that he is “deluded”? I’m not saying that Lara Prendergast is necessarily wrong, but she hasn’t provided any evidence for her case. I worked for many years in the electronics industry (which is inevitably very male dominated because very few women study electronics at university) but I never saw any evidence that women were in any way discriminated against. Indeed, everywhere I worked, the few women were always highly valued partly because most of us would prefer not to work in an all-male environment but also because, as so few women chose electronics as a career, those that did were generally very good at their jobs.

    • Crumbs

      I can’t be bothered to do this stupid journalist’s work for her, so I’m not going to try to dig out data, but I have in the past seen figures that confirm that childless women do at least as well as men in the workplace, and that it is indeed women’s family commitments that make the difference, not gender per se.

      • HJ777

        Yes, there is plenty of research on the subject out there had she bothered to look.

        I do dislike these opinion pieces where the opinion seems to exist quite separately from, and regardless of, any evidence. She might be right and the evidence might back her up, but she didn’t seem to want to take the risk of checking.

  • Shorne

    One can only assume that Farage doesn’t expect many women to vote UKIP so why bother;
    “Ukip’s only female MEP (after the expulsion of Nikki Sinclaire) Marta Andreasen, recently threatened to leave the party, labelling Farage as an “anti-women Stalinist dictator” whose view is that “women should be in the kitchen or in the bedroom”.

    [Farage]“Lap dancing? Don’t have the time these days, but I used to go to them. Like it or not, they are a fact of life. You are talking about normal behaviour there. Everyone does it.” Then, asked about extra-marital affairs, he conceded: “Well, we’re all human. There is a big difference between that sort of thing and being really bad.”

    So there “Don’t worry your pretty little head about this sort of thing, just off to have a snifter down the golf club, get the dinner on…good little woman.”

  • Eddie

    There is NO unfair gender pay gap at all. For feminists to claim that is, basically, fraud – it is pure fabrication aimed at gaining women unfair advantage (all female shortlists, quotas etc).
    There is, if one does some dodgy maths for your own propaganda familiar purposes, a fair pay gap between men and women in terms of average earnings over a lifetime.
    There are many good reasons for this: men work more years in more risky professions; women work in safe state jobs which pay less but have more security and massive pensions; women take time off to have children; many women live easy lives living off hubby’s dosh and doing nothing except socialising or maybe doing a day or two in some part time pretend job, or maybe they play at running a ‘business’ making organic vegetarian bras or something.
    I know girls tend not to be as good as maths as boys (innate brain differences play a big role there, as has been proven, and that’s why women tend not to reach the top or enter financial fields in great numbers). But realty, if you cannot understand how this over-a-lifetime average nonsense is used to lie and deceive, then you should be stripped of your GCSE maths C grades, sisters!
    I used to work at a college in posh west London. It was chock full of such part timer women – who did a day or two a week teaching so they could then tell everyone they worked and were independent women (HA!) when in fact they lived in their £800,000 houses because their husbands worked 12 hours a day to pay for them.
    Men get FAR less out of the benefits and healthcare system if one uses the same process of comparing averages. No-one talks about that gender benefits gap eh?
    Plus, men in their 50s are amongst the poorest in this country and part-time men actually earn LESS than women per hour – the feminists ALWAYS compare rich men with poor women. Why not try it the other way round eh?

    • Shanärah Jazmiinn

      Men get far less out of the healthcare system…yes probably, women do have a tendency to need the maternity department….plus the fact that there is such high levels of mental illness and eating disorders among women..rape kits ect…women are more vulnerable…is that a crime! No one talks about the gender benefits gap because they would have to admit that there is no point of women working if they have to hire a nanny or put their children in nursery because the money earned would not make a difference unless you earn at least £7 an hour!!! and then they would have to address this problem with no real alternative to offer.

      • Eddie

        No, NOT just maternity departments. 70% of GP visits are by women, often timewasters. The health system is not designed for men, but for women – it should be going out to where men (esp working class) men are, and understand that men have a tendency to soldier on and not to burst into tears and run to the doctor’s when an eyelash falls out, unlike some… It is therefore institutionally misandrist. Specific women’s health gets 7 or 8 times the spending as men’s – justify that if you can.

        More men commit suicide, though more women seek treatment for mental illness, and so tend to be more outwardly hysterical. I’d say rates were 50/50. But yet again, the health service is failing men.
        No-one talks about the benefits and healthcare gender gap because 1) men don’t complain enough – they are seen as wimps if they do ((y feminists most of all) and 2) there are no votes in politicians focusing on it. 3) feminists do not want gender equality at all – and never even admit something is wrong when men are discriminated against.

        But really, it is real gender bias and actually ends up killing people.
        (Your penultimate sentence is so jumbled and confused I fear you may have taken an overdose of femi-pills, so I cannot reply to it, sorry).
        By the way, part-time men earn less per hour than women, on average. Bet you didn’t know that.

        • Shanärah Jazmiinn

          Where are these timewasters? The woman going on monday to get her smear test or the one going on tuesday to get her contraception. It is unhealthy not to go to the doctors if you are in real pain or think there is a problem…its not a masculine phenomenom to be proud of! If more men use the services then more money will have to be invested, well ideally. Why would men be seen as wimps for complaining?

          • Eddie

            You have clearly not talked to doctors. Plenty of time-wasting people (mostly women) at GP surgeries – all the menopausal moanies, the TATTs (tired all the time), the minor aches and pains brigade. (Me, I avoid doctors if at all possible).
            Meanwhile, men who should be seen by doctors are soldiering onto a point when surgery is impossible – hence the UK’s high rate of deaths from cancer.
            We should not expect men to behave like women; the health service has to change to men’s needs are served – so doctors should be going out into communities where men, esp working class men are, and doing tests, scans etc.
            Men soldier on and do not buckle under the strain and pain. That is a good thing – usually – and it built civilisation. However, in these days when people live much longer, it is a bad thing, But we should NOT expect men to go against their innate natures and behave like women; the health service has to change to acknowledge and accept that men are like this, and adapt accordingly. If it does not, then it is institutionally seksist against men, non?
            My father died from AAA – it was only a couple of years ago that our health service scanned older men for that. But any women’s disease or cancer gets pots and pots of money and attention.
            My point is that is not fair or equal, and that it is due to gender bias and the fact women’s groups demand the lion’s share of NHS funding for themselves (because men will never ask for help or complain of course they are getting short-changed). And yes, women ALWAYS see men who complain about anything ever as wimps.

  • callingallcomets

    “Young, able women”…lol….this phrase immediately smokes out Ms Prendergast who, like every female hack under 40 immediately “identifies” with that description. But then, no doubt, she would welcome the Cameron/Osborne line that stay at home mothers are bone idle wasters who should really be back in the workplace while they farm their children out to nannies, childminders etc….or, better still, use the schools since Cameron & Co obviously see schools as childminding institutions rather than places of education.
    But then I don’t expect UKIP will gather many votes from the chattering classes of north London…

    • Fergus Pickering

      Women with children go to work because they need the money, not for any other reason. Women who stay at home have husbands who are fairly well off or they could not afford to do it.The situation is not ideal, but it is the situation.

      • Eddie

        You have clearly never worked in the education system. It is full of part-time women (living off their husband’s money) who do their jobs for a sense of purpose, a sense of identity, a social life (nattering with a usually female dominated staff). Many women who work don’t need the money.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Everybody needs the money, old fruit. Would they do it for nothing. And are there no men sitting on their fat arses drawing vastly exorbitant salaries for doing not much. Headmasters perhaps?

          • Eddie

            No they do not. Plenty of women working who don’t need a penny because hubby earns stacks and they live in million pound houses. I used to teach in Richmond upon Thames. I know!
            In fact, maybe all such people should be sacked to free up jobs for people who DO need the money. One reason so many men leave teaching is because it’s female-dominated like this, and in colleges at least, most jobs are part time.
            The education system is institutionally secksist against men and boys.

            • Fergus Pickering

              So nobody can have a job if they don’t need the money. How does that work, Eddie?

              • Eddie

                Well, it used to work. Women who got marred had to leave teaching jobs to make room for younger single women who needed those jobs, for example.
                The world used to be a fairer place. Now everyone is a selfish greedy pig out for themselves – especially Labour-voters yummy mummys and daddys.
                If we cleansed the teaching system of part-time women, then more full-time jobs could be created which gave breadwinners (usually men) a decent income (though our property price madness in the UK has ruined the quality of life for so many, thanks to government bribery schemes and investors).
                Then more men would enter a teaching profession now well over 70% female (and utterly feminised in every way). Then children would benefit, ultimately.

      • callingallcomets

        Or else, as we did in the 70s,, cut our coat according to our cloth by not having expensive holidays, only rarely going to a pub, never dining out and running a used car. When the kids were young my wife stayed at home because she believed that being a mum was her number one priority. As a teacher I wasn’t “well off” but we regarded a lot of stuff as “extras” that we couldn’t afford but were not essential.
        Were we stupid?

  • Daedalus

    I do not believe there is any gender pay gap any more. The reason women loose more money is due ton them having to bear children. They have to choose to take time out so they do not get paid, as they are not working. Or they go back to work and pay nanny. Farage is correct, if women play the same game as men they will get on as well or even better. But men are totally excluded from the pain of giving birth so where do we go with that one?

    Daedalus

    • HookesLaw

      You might try going into the 21st century and not stuck in 1950

      • RobertC

        Where, in the 21st Century, are men experiencing the pain of giving birth, apart from their own, of course!

        • Eddie

          Oh dear – not that old emo-argument. (Actually, a full 25% of women hav C sections – thereby possibly damaging the baby by not exposing it to bacteria during birth; and the rest are so doped up they probably give birth on Mars…)

          Let me state the equal and opposite of what you just said:

          ‘Where in the 21st century are women experiencing the pain of being kicked in the nuts? They have no idea that that’s the most painful thing in the universe and never will – hence they are inferior and deserve to be reminded that men suffer far more at every opportunity.’

      • Eddie

        You mean the 1950 when all young men had to suffer 2 years of national service whilst women just married and got a free house?

    • saffrin

      The pain of giving birth is paid off with a lifetime of constant nagging.

  • Daniel Maris

    Surely women get the better deal. Very few of them do the dirty smelly jobs whether it’s digging trenches, cleaning out the sewage system, building roads, housing construction, truck driving, aircraft and rail engine maintenance, care maintenance, cleaning windows etc

    Try this thought experiment: How long would it take for civilisation to collapse if all men were suddenly wiped out and how long, if all women were wiped out.

    I don’t know why men don’t complain more about having to do all the dirty unpleasant jobs.

    • Tim Reed

      All men are ‘privileged’, haven’t you heard!?! They have no right to speak of ‘equality’ or ‘fairness’.

      It’s instructive isn’t it – that there’s only ever a push for female gender quotas in the nice, comfortable, well paid careers. Always in the shiny boardroom, never on the dirty shop floor. This is modern feminism – well educated, wealthy, upper-middle class women seeking special favours and greater opportunities for their own clique, at the expense of genuine meritocracy.

      Have a listen to this podcast, and have your mind blown…

      Gender quotas in the boardroom…coming soon to the EU?

      As the host says, “Just listen to the language”…

      An example – Britta Thomsen, Danish MEP, Socialist Alliance…

      “…he said we are in a free society, where everyone can decide who they want to hire for their boards or not. But they cannot, because we have legislation on that in Europe. We have anti-discrimination. It’s not allowed to choose who you want in your board!”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtgVgwm-yA

      • Daniel Maris

        Quite – if “gender parity” is really an important objective, then it would surely apply to all types of employment, not just centrally heated office-style jobs.

        • Eddie

          Indeed. And none of this boardroom quote nonsense helps poor women or the disadvantaged. In fact, it helps privately-educated upper-middle class women like Harriet Harman et al.

          Feminists always talk about fairness and equality but want the reverse. They never demand equality for men to be 50% of teachers, nurses etc. They never demand equal representation of women in dirty, messy, horrible jobs – or in prison (maybe we can introduce a law aimed at locking up women whose husband’s make money for them in criminal ways?)

          I fully support people being treated equally when applying for jobs and that is precisely what happens now. It is not the fault of men that evolution made women crapp at technology or science or maths, is it? Why not stop paying maternity ‘pay’ linked to income rich property owning women eh? That costs us £4 billion a year. Then we can help poorer women (and people) more – to help themselves.

          The truth is worth repeating: There is NO unfair pay gap at all!

      • Fergus Pickering

        Well, I’m a middle-class man and I’ve had it fairly easy, I must say.

        • Andy

          That’s as maybe, but tellytubby has you on his ‘to the Gulag’ list.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Civilisation would collapse immdiately if women were wiped out. In fact it would be the end of human life as we know it, Jim. Silly boy.

      • Daniel Maris

        It would take a good 40 years or more if you are talking about breeding.

        40 years might just be long enough for a collection of superbrained men to undertake a Manhattan style project of perfecting child birth outside the female womb. The men would of course devote huge resources to the project, in between “masticating” furiously. Obviously there would be plenty of eggs available in fertility clinics.

        Would be a good script for a film!…one which actually wouldn’t have Sandra Bullock* in it, which would be interesting in itself.

        [*Mind you, Hollywood wouldn’t allow that I now realise. I can see her in scene 1 where she’s berating the male chauvinist pig scientist whose dumbass virus experiment is going to cause the wipeout of females…”You have no idea what you’re doing…I’m not going to let you…” – MCP calls security “Security – get that mad woman out of here NOW!”]

        • Fergus Pickering

          But how uninteresting a society would be with no women. Most men can bore for the universe. Look around you.

          • Daniel Maris

            I’m not advocating it! I think evolution has made men and women as good a fit as you can hope for… 🙂

    • Shanärah Jazmiinn

      Very few women do manual jobs….maybe in part because of the huge decline in manual jobs overall…and even the decline of the traditional working class young males doing these jobs…..maybe because girls are socialised from a young age with toys like trolleys, dolls ect into the role of domesticity….maybe because women are not taught that they are “big and strong” like boys….maybe because you are taught your value lies in attractivness and you cant fulfil that while your digging or breaking a sweat….maybe because of the intimidating factor of entering a male dominated proffession where sexism is strife, and you should calm down love and dont get your knickers in a twist!!….. you know just a few reasons!! …. but im just a silly moany woman who doesnt know anything about being female!!

      • Crumbs

        Sorry, Shanarah, but yes you are a silly moany woman. It takes a great deal of muscular strength and stamina to do the hard physical work that is generally left to men. On average, us women are simply not as strong as men. All credit to the guys who go up electrical pylons in howling gales, or man lifeboats, or even just move furniture.

        • Shanärah Jazmiinn

          Wasn’t even thinking to discredit the hard work men do so I’m sorry if it appeared that way.

      • Daniel Maris

        That’s like excusing men excluding women from the boardroom because “they were socialised to be like that as boys”. If you truly believe gender parity outcomes in employment are a high ethical goal, then you must believe women have a moral duty to get out there and do their share of dirty jobs, however they were socialised.

      • Eddie

        Excuses excuses…
        The differences is male/female behaviour is mostly innate – it is brain biology and comes from many millennia of evolution. it is not learnt behaviour in the most part – that is the old feminist theory that MRI scans have disproven totally. Baby boys and girls are not born the same in the brain – that is the scientific fact. Forget your femi-theories and just look at how small children behave and which toys they WANT to play with, all over the world, in tribes that have no TV even.
        Men have to work in intimidating female-dominated professions all the time – teaching is the biggie, and one reason schools fail boys is that curricula and teaching styles are designed by females for females (coursework, group work, chatting, instead of facts and tests).
        Maybe you should just man up, love, and become a street cleaner? Maybe we need quotas for that – but feminists never complain about under-representation of women in the sewage industry, do they?

      • ButcombeMan

        Yes you are a silly moaning woman (if you are not teletubby in disguise). When women HAD to do the traditional male jobs, because the fit men had gone off to war, they did them well.

        It is just historical fact that they did not continue in those roles mostly through choice, when WW2 ended.

        You sound very immature and very young. Stay away from LibDems.

  • albertcooper

    There was a time when men worked to support the family.Wife and Children,then along came Militant Feminism,and it all ended to the detriment of the family as it was once known ! so is all improved? I say NO !I am married and I strived ,we strived to bring up our family in a civilised way,and when my wife felt disposed she went back to the work place,but today there is no choice for both Husband and Wife need to work to make ends meet ! and why ? because of materialism and consumerism that all it seems thirst for,and with the encouragement of the various governments to do so to conform to the atheistic view

    • Shanärah Jazmiinn

      You mean world war 2 actually. Thats where women started working and simultaneously brought up their children. That was the end of family as it was known because women gained more indepedence financially and socially. Nothing to do with feminism….oh unless believing all humans should be equal has to be called feminism.

      • albertcooper

        I stand by what I have said I am a Roman Catholic and believe in the family and what is best for my Wife and children.We had five children and Valerie was at home to nurture them and this was her feminine desire.Today I see so many women who would prefer to be in this position but find it impossible to manage.Its nothing to do with “equality” but more with duty!!.In later year my wife went out to work ,with the children having enjoyed the privilege of not being latch key offspring.All humans are equal in the sight of God who created Male and Female and thus Paternal and Maternal instincts !

  • Lady Magdalene

    I very much doubt that Ms Prendergast’s claim that employers factor in the fact that a woman may have a baby when awarding them a salary. Most large employers have pay structures/scales which apply to all employees and it would be a very rash employer who deliberately placed female recruits at a lower level than male ones.
    However, once a woman has a baby, things DO change. It would be a very strange woman who was not affected in any way by motherhood. The fact is that once a baby arrives, most women (not all) want to balance their work and home lives slightly differently. Employers are entitled to factor that in, when deciding on pay levels.
    I do wish strident feminists would understand that they speak for a small proportion of women. Most women have jobs …..not careers. Most women want to care for their babies at least part of the time.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Most jobs are boring and unfulfilling. You do them for the money. Bringing up children is much nicer.

      • RobertC

        Bringing up children is more satisfying, eventually, usually!

      • Daniel Maris

        Yes, good sense. It’s only in the fantasy landscape of elite feminism that work is richly rewarding. For most women, like most men, work is pretty tedious a lot of the time and involves being bossed about by people you don’t much like.

        Child raising is an important and fulfilling activity. Women appear to be especially good at interacting with small children. Of course some men will be talented in that direction as well.

        • Eddie

          I used to worth in further education colleges. That is why I know that there have been schemes at some colleges in the UK to ‘promote gender equality’ by putting more teenage boys on childcare courses and more teen girls on courses like motor maintenance, brick-laying (built environment) and how to die in wars (Oh sorry, I made that last one up). Colleges would actually get more funding for each boy they put on a female-dominated course (childcare) and for every girl they encouraged to do morot maintenance (in fact, girls face huge pressure from idiot pc teachers at schools – if they are even average at maths, teacher bullies them to apply for engineering course at uni or college!)
          The problem is this: talking generally, males and females are different – in the brain (and behaviour, instinct, aptitudes etc) than in the body. This is pure evolution. Childhood is preparing girls for motherhood and being the social glue of the tribe; it is by contrast preparing boys to take risks to compete and achieve, get status and thus attract more females (so hunting, fighting, planning, politics etc with less nattering than social females).

          The politically correct mob in charge of our education system do not accept that at all though; they seriously believe that all differences between boys and girls are learnt, and are the result of social conditioning and a patriarchal society stereotyping by gender. Oh dear…

          • Shanärah Jazmiinn

            Feminity and masculinity are social constructions. Children are socialized into gendered roles when growing up, for example boy help dad wash car and has digger toys, girl help mum with dishes and have a doll. Boys called sissy’s for crying, girls are comforted. This creates the artificial and unnatural gender binaries where women are supposedly caring ….nothing to do with evolution.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …you have to be a gag poster. Nobody still believes all that rot.

              • Shanärah Jazmiinn

                As that is what sociology and anthropology classes teach about gender as im pretty sure it’s not too unbelievable…..

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …you’re pretty sure you’ve got a handle on what “sociology and anthropology classes” are teaching, are you?

                • Shanärah Jazmiinn

                  I would hope so or im going to fail my exams!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …oh, so you were referencing the subset of sociology and anthropology that you’re exposed to, then?

                • Shanärah Jazmiinn

                  Of course. Though i tend to prefer Marxist, Feminist and Interpretivist sociologists over all the others so yes im biased and im not saying im preaching a monopoly of truth, but surely when you look at kids you can see the way they are brought up determines their primary feelings about their own gender identities??

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, I can’t see what you marxists and feminists are fantasizing. I see and have experienced quite different than that, in fact.

                  So remember, the sludge being poured into your brain today is only a subset of the real knowledge available out in the world.

                • Shanärah Jazmiinn

                  Better go inform Gove of the sludge then!!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …Little Boy Gove approves of that sludge.

                • Eddie

                  Yes, and all those silly theories have now been disproved by real, evidence-based science – MRI scans and brain biology.
                  Sociology theories are utter twaddle. And outdated. Though you SO WANT it to be true, don’t you?

      • Shanärah Jazmiinn

        Yes… its much nicer to have no finances of your own!… or a social life where you can talk about other things exept nappies. Some people obviously havent experienced how lonely stay at home mothers can be and how unstable it is to rely on your partner or the state for money.

        • Fergus Pickering

          I was speaking from personal experience and I have always found conversations about children, what they do and how they behave, DEEPLY satisfying. I’ve no idea what these other conversations might be about. Politics? Sport? Culture? Deeply boring..Jobs? God give me strength.

        • Crumbs

          Unless you are raped and your religion forbids abortion, motherhood is a choice. If you don’t like it once you’re in it, tough. You are no longer the star of your own life. That’s why women sometimes talk wistfully about ‘getting their life back’ when the children are grown up.

          • Shanärah Jazmiinn

            And you should not have to choose between motherhood and a career. It is extraordinary to expect. If you start in the world of work when you are a postgrad you will be about 28…. it takes a long time to start a business ect…or get a job to build on in a bad economy. A woman’s fertility is halfed at 35 and goes down from there. Why should the expectation be that you, as a woman should give up family life because you will not be profitable for nine months. At the risk of never being able to concieve while your male collegues have families???? People dont choose to be born female, and if it is natural to be a mother then emplyers should be a little more accomodating.

            • RBcritique

              Words fail me.

            • Eddie

              Utter nonsense! If you want to have babies, then you should accept that either you are there for them, or you dump them on au pairs and get on with your career (Nicola Horlicks type – she got £20k a week in maternity ‘pay’ for our taxes too!)
              Women should not be so demanding of employers. Someone has to pay for their choices – it should be them, not me. Choosing to have children is a wholly selfish choice – why should you expect others to pay for your breeding programme at all?

        • ClausewitzTheMunificent

          Ah, Telemachus is a new guise? Or perhaps a friend from abroad? Well met, but I can’t understand for the life of me what you’re doing over here.

          • Shanärah Jazmiinn

            Why are you talking about Homer or does that have a double meaning?

        • Eddie

          Yeah but come on, it’s SUCH an easy life. Compare please with what my life was in the 90s – living in a grotty rented London flat (shared bathroom), working three part time teaching jobs to stay afloat (most of my colleagues were part time women living off rich hubby’s money).
          Middle-class well-off women have it SO easy – and yet they moan moan moan. If they introduced a Moan and Whinge event in the Olympics, I dare say it’d be the only sport in which women comprehensively beat men!
          Ah, so dey is lonely, is dey? Well, join a social club. Or get a puppy! FFS. How pathetic.
          And anyway, kids are at school from age 5 – and after that, being a ‘busy mum’s is a real life of leisure (or to compare, I do about 10 times more work as they ‘busy mums’ I know!)

  • Andy

    I heard the interview and I see Prendergast has deliberately edited the quote to say something Farage did not say.

    ‘. . . against women at all [FILL IN THIS BIT] And young, able women who are prepared to sacrifice the family life . . . ‘

    • Shanärah Jazmiinn

      The thing which is so wrong about this is that women have to `sacrifice’ something that men dont…reproductive abilities. So I guess that all these women who want to be an economic asset get punished with lonliness while the working man can impregnate his girlfriend and have a family.

      • Eddie

        So boo hoo hoo. Cry me a river, sweetie!
        You really are not good at accepting biological fact, are you?
        Still, men on average die at a younger age, so that’s not fair either eh? Boo hoo hoo.
        What university course are you studying? Pity party studies?

  • Smithersjones2013

    it’s a private matter and should never have to be disclosed

    And here is the problem. Women expect their employers to sign up to all the additional overheads of maternity (and potentially wasted resources if a company trains a woman who eventually decides to be a stay at home mother) that go with employing women of child-bearing age without even the slightest gesture in return. Is it not fair for an employer to expect women to make some sort of commitment to them?

    Here we have yet another women demonstrating the mindset of entitlement and privilege that has virtually destroyed the credibility of feminism. Yet again we have a woman using their child bearing capability as a shield against true equality of genders in employment. You cannot expect companies to invest the sort of resources in female employees that women expect and not expect to give anything back as well. There has to be a level of loyalty and/or transparency.

    Either women want jobs for now or they want careers. They can’t have it all ways.

    • HookesLaw

      So women – certainly any woman with the nerve to have a mind of her own, women are added to the increasing list of people kippers hate.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Well, we’ll see how many women vote to mount your boy Call Me Dave’s head on a spike, in 15.5 month’s time.

        Gosh, time is just rocketing by, isn’t it, lad?

        • Wessex Man

          I expect that Nadine Dorres will probably be one of them!

      • ButcombeMan

        Smear again. You really cannot help yourself

    • Shanärah Jazmiinn

      So…you cant win either way really….job and kids… your a scrounger for daring to aspire to have a career because of maternity leave! If you have children and live on benefits you are a scrounger. The same people who are against abortions are the the same people who complain about children being born!!

  • Michael990

    “Farage appears “…

    MR Farage to you, Prendergast.

    • HookesLaw

      As a public schoolboy Farage is used to being addressed like that

      • Wessex Man

        Now lok here Law you are beginnig to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • WatTylersGhost

    Just wonder if Lara, when interviewing a woman for a job as a nanny or housekeeper, would choose the one who was flat bellied or the one who looked six months pregnant?

    • HookesLaw

      You have made an absurd comment but clearly you do not realise it.

      • WatTylersGhost

        Enlighten me.

        • Adro

          Well, for a start, you’ve completely missed the point, a la Farage. What the author is stating is that all women, even if not pregnant, have the potential to have children, and employers often take this into account when recruiting. Thus women are often unwittingly discriminated against as an employer sees a man as having an inherently lower risk of taking maternity leave. The easiest way to fix this would be to offer equal parenting leave to men and women, which they can divide, thus eliminating the particular disadvantage.

          • WatTylersGhost

            Very logical, but only when men lactate.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Interesting that you term normal biological functioning as a “disadvantage”, and that this has an “easiest way to fix”.

            Maybe you should take it up with the Creator?

          • Francis Drake

            Stupid nonsense. You clearly have never tried to run a small business. In the past it was fine if a married woman wanted to have a child. They calculated the cost and her husband then carried the burden of supporting her through pregnancy and raising the child, just as it always had been, and should be.
            Now if I employ a woman, she can disappear a few weeks later for nearly a year, and I have to carry that burden. She can reappear several months later for a few weeks, and then rip me off yet again.
            Maternity leave might be fine for big corporations, but it can destroy small businesses. Responsibility for child bearing women should not be thrown at small businesses like mine.

            • Eddie

              Agreed. Fortunately in my business I only use freelancers to do rate work. If however I were an employer, I think I would only employ men and older women (who are often good employees – reliable and able to juggle, if they’ve had a family; young women are by contrast pretty ditzy and unreliable, and can get up the duff at any time – on your account. Literally!)

          • Eddie

            No, the way to address the issue is for free small and medium businesses from ANY responsibility re others child-bearing choices.
            Those who choose to have children should not expect the taxpayer (incl the childless) to pick up the bill. We should not have any maternity pay linked to income at all – £4 billion saved, right there. After all, why should women on £100k a year married to men on more and owning property worth a million or more get any subsidy to make the most selfish decision of all: to bring children into an overpopulated world.

            We need to clamp down on ALL who scrounge off our welfare state – including yummy mummys.

          • Flora Crane

            Except that men would likely take less of that leave than women, reducing but not eliminating the problem. If one wants to genuinely eliminate the issue, you need to make equal parental leave compulsory for both parents.

            • David

              Ah so we just force our ideology on people, so simple.

              • Flora Crane

                It’s already illegal to turn down an applicant because you’re afraid she’ll take maternity leave. This just removes the temptation to do so, since women and men are now just as likely to do so.

                Is that forcing an ideology? Yes, it probably is, and I can live with that.

                • David

                  Maybe all those wrongs will eventually link up and make a right

                • Flora Crane

                  I’m not sure where the wrong is. It is illegal to favour one applicant over another based on their likelihood of taking parental leave. It’s simply illegal. If you disagree with that current arrangement, then fair enough–that’s an argument for another time.

                  But if we’ve already accepted that, what’s the issue with equal, required parental leave? It ends the temptation to do something which is illegal anyway but hard to prevent, gives a fair playing field to the employment market and gives children more time with their parents. Win-win, surely?

                • David

                  I disagree with the current arrangement on principle. Incidentally I’m currently benefiting from maternity leave as my wife is nurse and has very generous maternity leave, however in the end we are all poorer, the economy is less productive and we are all a little less free because of these laws.

                • Flora Crane

                  Ah, well, fair enough. I don’t agree with you, but I can understand where you’re coming from. Maybe you’d feel differently if you kept being passed over for promotion because you *might* take maternity leave in the future

                • Lee Moore

                  We haven’t already accepted that. Your just piling more lunacy and coercion on top of the initial dose.

                  Presumably you also have an extra set of regulations ready, for when Dads miss out on pay rises and promotions, while the single guys shoot ahead ?

            • tjmac7

              Force men out of work so that employing a woman becomes more appealing?

              • Flora Crane

                Currently, employing a man is more appealing because they’re less likely to take parental leave. This would just redress the disparity.

                Oh, and it would let parents spend a bit more time with their children in the very formative years. Is that such a bad thing?

                • Lee Moore

                  But parents are already deciding how much time they want to spend with their children, and fathers are usually deciding that it’s more in their family’s interests for them to carry on working and earning. Your plan is simply to remove that choice on the basis that YOU prefer a different option. We already know that the parents in question don’t prefer it, because, mostly, they’ve already rejected it in favour of Dad carrying on working.

                  So to fit your ideological preferences, everybody else must jump up and down to your tune. I hope you don’t have the cheek to call yourself “pro-choice.”

          • saffrin

            Men and women always had a right to maternity leave. All they needed to do was resign is all.
            The last Labour Government complicated the matter by introducing laws forcing companies to pay for people not prepared to work.
            Not only that, they introduced laws forcing employers to keep those jobs open.
            But then that’s just another chapter in Labour’s “How to Destroy a Nations Economy in Less than Thirteen Years” manual.

          • Guest

            equal parenting, whenever a man is included in an equality act you can bet it isn’t for his advantage.

          • Lee Moore

            How are you going to fix :

            1. the greater tendency of women to spend time looking after their children, not just during a short post birth period of parental leave, but for the following twenty years or so ?

            2. the greater tendency of women to spend time looking after aged or infirm relatives ?

      • Daniel Maris

        Seems a perfectly fair and valid comment. Are we really supposed to believe Lara would treat the two applicants equally ?

  • Chris lancashire

    You are quite correct Lara, in my reasonably long experience women have to perform significantly better than a male in the equivalent job to obtain advancement. It is certainly a heck of a lot better than it was 20-30 years ago but it definitely still exists.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Experience is irrelevant if you lack the judgement needed to use that experience

      • Chris lancashire

        Absolutely.

  • Louise Nathanson

    I would like all men to consider the ‘choice’ that their mother made about whether to bring them in to existence, realise that the time women are required to have off to propigate leaves them at a slight disadvantage to their male peers and ensure that disadvantage is addressed.
    Seems only fair.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Bit of a give away there, My parents made the ‘choice’ together not just my mother. But that was in the “bad” old days when marriage was seen as a partnership of complementary but different roles and not the silly competition for ‘equality’ of today. Easier to buy a house too because it was not dependent on two people earning.

      • Eddie

        Indeed – absurd house prices (encouraged by all governments over 40 years) have a lot to answer for.
        Many men struggle in jobs to even buy the grottiest of flats. Many women by contrast work part-time while their husbands pay the lion’s share of the mortage – and live lives of ease. I worked with many such women in the education system. I constantly had to listen to their pity parties too, as their parroted what the latest femi-bot had told them about the so-called ‘gender pay gap’.
        There is NO unfair gender pay gap. Fact. There is a gap in earing averages over a lifetime for very good reasons. In fact the only way to achieve what the femi-whingers call ‘gender pay parity’ would be to pay all men an hourly rate less than women’s. Maybe that’s really their agenda eh? That are discrimination against men in job applications, and quotas for top jobs (though they never want quotas for the dirty dangerous low paid jobs eh?.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Bit of a give away there, My parents made the ‘choice’ together not just my mother. But that was in the “bad” old days when marriage was seen as a partnership of complementary but different roles and not the silly competition for ‘equality’ of today. Easier to buy a house too because it was not dependent on two people earning.

    • Smithersjones2013

      If you do not have kids then don’t bother because you clearly have the wrong attitude toward bringing up children. You make them sound like a fashion accessory. They are not and they are they not some onerous chore performed for men that hinders a woman’s career prospects either.

      If you do have children all I can say is I feel for them!

    • Daniel Maris

      Rubbish. The man can take off equivalent time now, if the couple are heterosexual.

    • Fergus Pickering

      I take it you have no children

    • Eddie

      You have a strange concept of fairness – because what you are recommending is NOT treating people as equals but discriminating against them because they are the ‘wrong’ gender. I suspect that, as per usual with feminists, when you talk about ‘women’ you actually mean YOU – and what you want is to have unfair advantage at work and leapfrog over better and more able men.
      As usual with femi-twerps, your silly little argument is built on a foundation about as stable as silicone implants. You assume (like an a…) that ALL women are disadvantaged (not innately, or thru choice, but solely because of time off having children) and that ALL men are advantaged. You have clearly had your nose stuck in ManHating Monthly (a Fawcett society rag) rather than looking around at the real world.
      Seems only fair does it? Only if locking more women up in prison to aim for gender parity there seems fair. Only if paying women less benefit to make sure men (who are disadvantaged as they get less money from the benefits system) get more is fair.,

  • Louise Nathanson

    I would like all men to consider the ‘choice’ that their mother made about whether to bring them in to existence, realise that the time women are required to have off to propigate leaves them at a slight disadvantage to their male peers and ensure that disadvantage is addressed.
    Seems only fair.

  • Wessex Man

    This last month has clearly been ‘knock UKip with any smear because we can’t beat them on any subject relating to the EU.

    For example, I can’t remember Lara Predergast doing an article about Cameron with his remarks in the House to Angela Eagle- Calm down dear or to Nadine Dorries, who clearly had a reasoned question to ask, that he couldn’t reply to without making an idiot of himself, so he said ‘I know the Honourable Lady is extremely frustrated.’

    Still mustn’t grumble Party membership[ still going up!

    • HookesLaw

      Why should Cameron be criticised for lampooning a woman just as he would a man. Thats equality.
      Farage believes that women should be treated unequally. its his lown words that have sperked the comment. There is no plot. Lets all hope Ms Prendergast cleans behind the fridge shall we?

      • Smithersjones2013

        Calm down now Hooky dear

        Of course Cameron is renowned for his comments to fellow male colleagues about how frustrated they are (with a smug leering smirk across his face as he says it).

        Equality my asp. Cameron’s got a female perception problem for good reason. Personally I suspect he may suffer from ‘little husband syndrome’ (i.e. Sam actually wears the trousers in that household). It certainly would explain a lot……

        • Fergus Pickering

          Oh shut up, there’s a dear.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Yes, it’s going to be interesting to see how the women vote re the poshboys.

      • Chris lancashire

        You’re wasting your time with the oldsters.

      • ButcombeMan

        Farage did not say women should be treated unequally, that is another desperate smear. He pointed out that in some jobs( he was speaking of city dealing rooms) a woman who took three years out had diminished value to her employer. Some jobs that does not apply. It would certainly apply where part of the value brought to the job is an active client list.

        Farage was pointing out the obvious. It is only controversial to the intellectually challenged.

  • Eddie

    There is no such thing as the gender pay gap. (A person earns the same for the same job at the same level with the same experience whether they be male, female, or hermaphrodite).

    There is such a thing as misusing statistics and averages to present a fabricated case for it.

    There are very good reasons why on average men over a lifetime earn more than women – based on child-bearing, choice, innate aptitudes, ambition, number of years worked.

    One could use the same dodgy methods to ‘prove’ that there is a gender benefits gap which discriminates against men because on average women get more benefits, or that there is a gender healthcare gap, because more money is spent on women’s healthcare than men’s.

    Read this and stop promoting the lie of the gender pay gap. It really is a bad example to set our daughters and sons.

    http://thebackbencher.co.uk/the-gender-pay-gap-myth/

  • Eddie

    There is no such thing as the gender pay gap. (A person earns the same for the same job at the same level with the same experience whether they be male, female, or hermaphrodite).

    There is such a thing as misusing statistics and averages to present a fabricated case for it.

    There are very good reasons why on average men over a lifetime earn more than women – based on child-bearing, choice, innate aptitudes, ambition, number of years worked.

    One could use the same dodgy methods to ‘prove’ that there is a gender benefits gap which discriminates against men because on average women get more benefits, or that there is a gender healthcare gap, because more money is spent on women’s healthcare than men’s.

    Read this and stop promoting the lie of the gender pay gap. It really is a bad example to set our daughters and sons.

    http://thebackbencher.co.uk/the-gender-pay-gap-myth/

    • Daniel Maris

      Women get several years more out of the pension system as well. Where’s the fairness in that. If Lara really believes in gender equality pensions should be actuarially adjusted so men get the same as women, rather than less as is now the case.

      • Chris lancashire

        You will no doubt be gratified to know that by December 2018 complete equality will have been achieved in state pension ages.

        • Daniel Maris

          As I suspect you know, I was referring to the amount of time women enjoy a state pension, which is much longer than men. By doing so I was hoping to point up just how doltish it is to view everything with “gender parity” glasses on. What I say about pensions, is exactly the sort of statistical exercise undertaken to “prove” that women get lower pay in the public sector.

          • Eddie

            You could also have mentioned that most wealth most women seem to have comes from men – either ex-husbands, or dead husbands or fathers. By contrast, a far greater proportion of wealth men have is earned by their own sweat and effort.
            I have no idea why women moan so much – from where I am sitting, they seem to have easy-peasy lives of leisure (doing a little part time job whilst living on a nice house paid for by hubby). Maybe they’re just programmed to whinge? Maybe it’s evolutionary – female bonding. Cavewomen doing the gathering and nattering about their awful menfolk who do nothing at all except spend an hour a week killing a woolly mammoth…

            • Shanärah Jazmiinn

              Women are programmed to whinge. I really hope you havent gone to school because if you have that level of ignorance is actually inexusable.

      • Shanärah Jazmiinn

        Taking account of the fact that women live longer… id say its kinda unavoidable dont you think.

        • Daniel Maris

          That logic is not applied in “gender pay” cases – they look at the totality of the equation. I don’t support that logic, I oppose it. I just mention it in relation to pensions to show how perverse the logic is.

    • AnotherDave

      As I understand it, the pay gap is between women-with-children, and everyone else, rather than men vs women.

      So Mr Farage is quite right: “women who are prepared to sacrifice the family life and stick to their career will do as well or better than men.”

Close