Coffee House

Leaked memo suggests ministers could accept Raab deportation call

29 January 2014

8:50 AM

29 January 2014

8:50 AM

Though the PM and whips have been in a tizz about Nigel Mills’ amendment to the Immigration Bill, it’s Dominic Raab’s call to narrow the grounds for appeal in the deportation of foreign criminals that could cause real problems in tomorrow afternoon’s debate. There is a chance that it could pass, while the Mills amendment can just be notched up as an embarrassing rebellion.

But do ministers really need to reject the amendment at all? In March, Theresa May told the Prime Minister that the same clause, originally tacked to the Crime and Courts Bill, ‘would be incompatible with the ECHR and counter-productive’ because the European Court of Human Rights would ‘most probably issue a rule 39 injunction’ that prevented deportation until the issue was resolved by the Court.

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But I’ve been passed a memo written by the Home Office team working on the Immigration Bill that suggests the objection based on these rule 39 injunctions is unfounded. It says:

‘On whether we are likely to routinely get Rule 39 interim measures for non-suspensive appeals, based on the fact that such measures are rare in A8 cases (and increasingly rare in other cases) we think it unlikely. We are relying, in particular, on paragraph 83 of the recent judgment in Riberio v France which states that a non-suspensive remedy is not imperative in A8 cases.

‘Judicial review will be available to test whether removal pending appeal would cause “serious irreversible harm” but we do not expect interim measures under Rule 39 to be issued routinely, if at all.’

There is a chance that ministers may be able to amend the amendment (such is the confusing way the Commons works) to make it acceptable. Their own advice seems to suggest that this isn’t an impossible proposition.

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Show comments
  • Pb

    Read Rabb on it. Article 8 allows deportation to protect the public. The home office lawyers cooked this up because they’re a bunch of Common Purpose traitors who want to destabilise and destroy the uk because they hate their own nation. Time for a coup. Shoot them. Let’s relieve ourselves of their early retirements and vast pension obligations.

  • David Kay

    ……

    • Kitty MLB

      Excellent.
      I am sure that Churchill would be turning in his grave if he
      knew the Human Rights Act now protects terrorists and those who threaten,
      totally ignoring the human right of those to feel safe in their own country.
      Not that it seems like our country anymore.

      • David Kay

        thanks kitty, as i double posted this comment i deleted this one

        • Kitty MLB

          You Can delete, I cannot actually delete here, I only have Reply and Share buttons.
          Which is a pain, because elsewhere if I sent 5 posts,
          I usually change my mind and delete three of them.

          • David Kay

            sorry i didnt delete i just edited the text with ……..

  • Denis_Cooper

    “In March, Theresa May told the Prime Minister that the same clause, originally tacked to the Crime and Courts Bill, ‘would be incompatible with the ECHR and counter-productive’ because the European Court of Human Rights would ‘most probably issue a rule 39 injunction’ that prevented deportation until the issue was resolved by the Court.”

    So basically Theresa May has had since March to draft an alternative amendment which would do everything that the Raab amendment would do, plus expressly instruct our courts that they must ignore any such rule 39 injunction from the Strasbourg court and allow the deportation to proceed.

  • Denis_Cooper

    “We are relying, in particular, on paragraph 83 of the recent judgment in Riberio v France which states that a non-suspensive remedy is not imperative in A8 cases.”

    Pathetic, relying on a judgement of the Strasbourg court to decide whether it would be possible for our sovereign Parliament to pass a law.

  • swatnan

    I’m all for deporting Dominic Raab.

    • David Kay

      I agree, along with Ed Miliband. As the offspring of immigrants they are part of the problem not the solution

  • telemachus

    The Home Office have rise tinted spectacles
    Me and my colleagues will press hard for EHCR rule 39 injunctions if Raab prevails and the net result will be worse in terms of delay than now
    When will these people learn?

    • David Webb

      It sounds like you are guilty of high treason, Telemachus. English Common Law does not permit you to press for foreign control of this country.

      • telemachus

        High Treason is only an offence when we are at war

        • Major_Eyeswater

          Do you support democratic self-determination? Do you think that laws made in our Parliament should be overturned by unelected foreigners? This seems to be the gist of what you are determined to “press hard” for.

          • Kitty MLB

            I have absolutely no idea how ” Little England”
            as we are now insultingly known instead of Great Britain
            managed for all those years without the guiding light
            of the great EU to control and manipulate us.
            Please also be a gentleman and tell the person above
            that politicians in this country have been committing high-
            treason for years- pity the Tower of London is out of use these days.

            • telemachus

              It is the little england mentality we all decry

              • Kitty MLB

                What is little England mentality?
                Is it being patriotic, or perhaps wishing to take responsibility
                for our own country instead of being linked to a failed political experiment.
                Is it perhaps knowing our countries economy is so fragile
                that we cannot afford to take on new people to feed and house- where are these houses, anyway-
                and what about the people already here, the much put upon tax payer.
                Or maybe, young Telemachus, its just a word
                used to belittle, manipulate, and cause division.

                • telemachus

                  little englandism is well exemplified on this blog
                  Batton down the hatches
                  Let no more migrants in to challenge and invigorate our staid ways
                  Let us not cooperate with multinational groups such as Europe despite it being to mutual benefit
                  And so on

                • Kitty MLB

                  And you mentioned stereotyping Telemachus.
                  We need more control over the amount of migrants,
                  and I am sorry, the type of migrant, in case Labour has not noticed our economy is still fragile.
                  Its the uncontrollable immigration due to open borders that is the problem- not ‘ foreign people’.
                  Also, I can assure tell you, as I know, the EU is a
                  wreck, does not represent the people of Europe and
                  other countries within the EU , say they were lied to,
                  have No control and wish they could leave themselves.
                  They ask, we have our own currency, we are not physically
                  attached to Europe and The EU is not the centre of the universe.

          • telemachus

            We largely led and wrote the HR legislation and set up the ECHR
            Largely to stop human rights abuses in countries emerging from regimes less enlightened than our own
            We cannot ourselves revert to such behaviour

            • David Kay

              yes we wrote the ECHR to protect people from the evils of socialist regimes. We are trying to stop people like you continuing that behaviour. The threat you people pose to humanity can only be solved by introducing you to the gallows

            • David Kay

              Comrad telemachus

              The Human Rights Act needs to be replaced by a Protection From Socialism Act, in order to protect my human rights from socialism and socialists like you

              Whether is was the ideology of karl Marx’s Das Kapital, Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf or Ed Milibands Climate Change Act, socialism has murdered more than 120 million people

              • telemachus

                If you wish compulsion in politics I suggest you start with the fruitcakes who do not really have a right to exist
                But then we know they will begin to wither after May

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Do you not see a conflict in advocating Human Rights Legislation on the one hand and then writing about legitimate political parties as ‘fruitcakes who do not really have a right to exist’.

                  You really are deranged.

            • Major_Eyeswater

              So deporting convicted foreign criminals to their country of origin is an abuse of the criminal’s human rights? Do the citizens of this or any other country have any “right” to disagree with you, or does the criminal’s human right trump the right of a society to democratic self-determination on this matter?

            • David Webb

              You say “we” wrote it. Do you mean unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall played a part? I would have executed them for treason too!

        • David Webb

          No, that is not true at all. Most of the traitors executed in history were executed when the country was not at war.

    • Major_Eyeswater

      Please can you explain how making it harder to deport foreign criminals will be a good thing for the country?

      • telemachus

        “….the net result will be worse in terms of delay than now”

        • Major_Eyeswater

          Eh? So the amendment should be rejected because it will give YOU an opportunity to bring about further delays?
          Please can you explain why those further delays to deporting foreign criminals are a good thing for the country?

          • telemachus

            Not me but those who believe in the sanctity of the individual

            • Major_Eyeswater

              (let’s ignore that you first stated “Me and my colleagues…”)
              So if I’ve got this right you think that those who believe in the sanctity of the individual should fight the deportation of foreign criminals to their country of origin?
              By implication you feel that I should be perfectly entitled to go to another country, break their laws and be allowed to continue living there regardless of the severity of the crime or any harm done to their citizens or society? Wow.
              Why would that be in the interests of that country’s citizens?

              • telemachus

                Problem is son that many in our society trump up charges to exclude socially unacceptable folk rather than criminals

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Whereas you advocate trumped up charges for legitimate political parties you disapprove of.

                  You are a fascist who should wash his mouth out after daring to talk about human rights.

                • Major_Eyeswater

                  Thank you for your answer son, that sounds like a serious problem you’ve spotted. Please can you give me an example of some foreigner that the UK have trumped up charges against so that we can deport them?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …well, there was that behooked imam, who was obviously as pure as the driven snow, just that somebody had it in for him.

                  What society wouldn’t relish the opportunity to pay unlimited benefits to such a humanitarian, his many wives and all his family members? Surely, no one with a heart would try to deport that guy.

                • Major_Eyeswater

                  Mr Viceroy, pour yourself a stiff one – your example has wholly won me over. We clearly cannot be trusted to decide these matters for ourselves. I suggest we form a support group for the poor wee lamb whose right to live at our expense while he figures out how to blow us up, as Mr Telemachus has reminded us, transcend such footling matters as democracy.

    • Colonel Mustard

      You and your “colleagues” press far too much. A little less “pressing” would be much appreciated by the gentle and tolerant people of England lest you press them into demonstrating their anger.

      • telemachus

        Anger can and will be dealt with

        • Colonel Mustard

          You write as if you are the boss of us. But many tyrants have said exactly the same and rued the day.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceaușescu

          • telemachus

            And many who ignored the march of history did not do well either

            http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/nicholas.htm

            • Colonel Mustard

              They were murdered by your comrades, the march of communist scum rather than the march of history. Another example of your disgusting double standards.

        • Kitty MLB

          “Anger can be dealt with”,
          That, leftle warrior sounds like a threat,
          are they strangled within the uncompromising fist of
          socialism.
          Also, since when did Lefties believe in the sanctity of the individual? Individuality, freedom of expression, small
          state and responsibility are all Conservative ideals
          not Labours.

          • telemachus

            We all strive for Christian responsibility and values
            Your mistake is to go for political stereotyping

            • Colonel Mustard

              You go for political stereotyping all the time you hypocrite.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …make that a lower case ‘c’ and you’ve got a good point there.

    • saffrin

      May 2014/2015 UKIP are coming to a town near you.

      • telemachus

        2014 in the irrelevant election
        In 2015 you might just get a seat at Westminster

        • saffrin

          If the General Election were to be fought on equal terms UKIP would walk away with gold, however, as Labour and Clegg have refused to move the electoral boundaries that heavily discriminate in Labour’s favour, well probably end up in coalition with Cameron being the lesser member.

        • gerontius

          Could be more Telemachus. The working class are beginning to see you for what you are. It takes time, but they’re getting there.

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