Coffee House

Ed ‘Teddy’ Miliband: Labour is the party of competition

19 January 2014

19 January 2014

Ed Miliband tends to enjoy success when he’s either stealing someone else’s clothes or offering a possibly unworkable policy that sounds catchy. This morning on the Andrew Marr Show he tried both tactics. Having nicked One Nation from the Tories and repeated the phrase so often that they probably don’t want it back, Miliband is now trying to ape a Republican president, Theodore Roosevelt. His close colleague Lord Wood sets out why Labour thinks this is a space it can jump into in a piece for Coffee House.

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The catchy line from this Roosevelt-style crusade is that Labour is now the party of competition, with Miliband planning to appoint consumer groups such as Which? and Citizens Advice to advise market regulators on competition. Miliband said:

‘And if I can just make this point, Andrew, you were talking earlier about President Roosevelt, he was a republican, a Republican president. I think lots of people in Britain, lots of Conservatives, will be thinking: “Why is the Conservative party not championing this agenda? Why have they become the champion of the big vested interests like the energy companies and the banks?” It is Labour that is the party of competition, Labour that’s taking this agenda forward.’

Miliband is cleverly trying to scramble into every nook and cranny that he thinks has been vacated by the Conservatives. The problem with stealing someone else’s clothes is that they don’t always fit very well. Labour wants to be the party of competition and give consumers a greater say in the way markets work. Fine. But where the buttons start flying off this is when you consider that Miliband also wants a big state intervention in the energy market that would involve telling companies what prices they could charge. So he’s leading the party of competition but not of free markets, which is interesting.


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Show comments
  • Magnus Wills

    Isabel, you’re clearly not a big fan but you have missed the point of Labour energy policy which is that prices will be frozen while a review of the energy market is carried out. As with so many neo-liberal market worshippers the Tories have failed to realise that intervention in markets is essential for them to function properly and to avoid the creation of monopolies. So, yes, Labour is the party of competition, for now at least.

  • D Whiggery

    He approaches politics like a student would approach a study project

    1. He considers his intended area of study: getting elected.

    2. He goes to the library and looks for appropriate historical precedents.

    3. He conducts a few case studies of these precedents and analyses them in today’s
    context.

    4. He draws his conclusions and advances his proposals.

    5. He hands in his PhD in Getting Elected to Professor Marr, job done.

  • Chris lancashire

    The Consumers Association and the CAB should be very, very careful in involving themselves in this. They have achieved their status, to date, by being non-political.

    • HookesLaw

      The clear policy nof Labour is to put their placemen in positions in these groups (and/or only choose those groups that suit them) and then get these groups to tell them what they want to hear. This is then dressed up as listening to consumers. Will ‘grants’ for these groups be very far behind? Fans of the EU will know that this is what the EU does.
      I am not a fan of Which? but I hope any conservatives who are members will resign once this becomes known.

      • Andy

        Well if you look most Charities are now branch offices of the Labour Party, usually getting dollops of public money in the process. Time the taxpayer money tap had new washers fitted.

    • HookesLaw

      The other point to note Mr L is that as part of the ‘smaller state’ we all want, the govt is intending to streamline publicly funded consumer groups. Its had a ‘Consumer Landscape Revfiew’. This is guaranteed to put the back up groups like Which?.

  • Rossspeak

    I don’t want to sink to insults – but for the life of me I cannot see why telemachus and Daniel Maris continue to read the Spectator ( and also appear on posts on the Torygraph website).
    Surely you would be more comfortable amongst kindred spirits in the Grauniad or Indie rather than inviting predictable bile and scorn.

    Masochism perhaps?

    • Daniel Maris

      Don’t mention me in the same breath as Telemachus!

      I’ve read the Spectator for 30 years – I actually buy it, unlike most people here. I like to reflect on the news and I value the generally good quality of writing.

      I consider myself a populist and to the extent that the Spectator reflects some strands of populism I am sympathetic towards it. Sadly it’s become more elitist in recent years.

      In terms of posting here, I always like to have my ideas tested. I used to post a lot on Harry’s Place but found they resorted to censorship too quickly.

      There are a lot of dunderhead Tories here who don’t like to have their low wattage thought processes challenged – you seem to be one.

    • Fergus Pickering

      I would like to defend them. I read the Stagggers from time to time. Just to see what they are doing, youunderstand. And because I do I know it has moved slightly to the right and, I think, gained a few more readers..

  • Daniel Maris

    Never underestimate the inner strength of a geeky looking guy.

  • HJ777

    Ed Miliband: ” “Why have they become the champion of the big vested interests like the energy companies and the banks?” It is Labour that is the party of competition, Labour that’s taking this agenda forward.’ ”

    Well, let’s see you apply that principle to to medical service provision and to education then, Ed. Otherwise people might think that you are protecting vested interests in the NHS and state education from competition.

  • John-O-Goring

    Competition in everything except state monopolies education and health.

  • Peter Stroud

    Now, just imagine the brothers: the same brothers that got Ed the leadership, imagine them accepting Labour as the Party of competition. Competition means local, not national wage negotiations. It means setting brother against brother; sorry I forgot Ed knifed his brother. No, regardless of this, the unions will never allow the Labour Party to adopt such a capitalistic stance.

  • McRobbie

    I dont think millie understands competition..his competition is price control and closing bank branches. I do beleive when the british public start to appreciate what the impact of price control of energy and even worse, trying to make people join a bank they dont want because their local branch is now closed, then millie will see a real backlash..we hate bankers but we hate being forced to do something we don’t want to do even more, especially when its our own money we will lose control of.

    • Daniel Maris

      The way you talk you would think that the USA, home of free enterprise never had anti-trust legislation, minimum wage or rent controls.

  • andagain

    Wouldn’t free competition in the energy market require deregulation?

    • Doppel1800

      Neither the Tories nor Labour have successfully squared the privatisation circle. There are big problems with regulation, concentration and fragmentation. Outsourcing presents similar problems.

      • andagain

        Our deregulated energy industry produced cheap electricity perfectly well until the Energy Ministry started reregulating it to force them to use wind turbines instead of coal and gas.

        If you want to force people to do things the expensive way, you should not complain when that turns out to be expensive.

  • RavenRandom

    The only thing Ed cares about is power. And he wants to use that power to bring back the successful 1970s where the state set prices, incomes, took all your money, controlled industries and ultimately had to bring in the IMF to sort out the mess.

  • alabenn

    Why have the Conservatives become the champion of the big vested interests like the energy companies and the banks. say this weak minded chancer.
    This is exactly what Labour under Brown did, they presided and caused the concentration of banks and power companies, they changed the regulations to enable this to happen, they also caused the crash that made sure it happened, they even instructed big banks to combine.
    The standard of reporting is now decided by the political leanings of the reporter.
    The decline of respect for the media continues unabated.

  • realfish

    ‘…So he’s leading the party of competition but not of free markets, which is interesting.’
    I think that the problem you have there Isabel is that you are struggling to rationalise the irrational. Miliband trying to is all over the place, trying to camouflage his core Marxist beliefs with some thing that the electorate might find more palatable.

    BTW: Miliband’s disclosure, this morning, that he will appoint ‘Which’ and others to advise on regulation, might go some way to explaining the increasing exposure that the BBC have been giving to ‘Which’s’ Executive Director Richard Lloyd and his organisation in recent months. Exposure which has been largely supportive of Miliband’s bandwagoning.

    As Hook’s Law pointed out on another thread. This organisation now also has another lefty, Staggers and Fabian contributor and former adviser to Milband, Sonia Shoda, as its head of public services and consumer rights. She has joined Lloyd, a previous Tony Blair adviser / No 10 staffer.

    In true Labour, BBC entryist tradition, all may not be what it seems at ‘Which’. The ‘love letters (tweets)’ that ‘Which’ are in turn sending to Miliband seem to suggest that the organisation is no longer politically neutral….and when they are invited to appear on the BBC they are speaking for the Labour Party

    Time for an investigation, Isabel?

    • itdoesntaddup

      Looks like you have done the work for her…

    • HookesLaw

      Thank you for the hat tip. Shoda is a long time Labour party advisor so we will not get any objective opinions from Which?. I do not see how this magazine or rather the self styled ‘The Consumer Association’ (a charity! – No 296072) can be taken seriously anymore as an objective body. I do not see how any Conservative could remain a member since it clearly has a leftist political agenda that needs exposing.
      I think if we wait on the Spectotor to do it we will wait a long time; iIs editor is asleep at the wheel,

  • itdoesntaddup

    It was Miliband who explicitly FORBAD OFGEM from insisting on competition in consumer interests in his 2010 Energy Act – instead supporting crony greenergy as the top priority.

    Judge a man by his actions. That includes judging Marr for failing to point this out.

    • 2trueblue

      There were 18 individuals on the committee advising Liebore an energy for the future, 11 had direct interests in the wind turbine business. You just could not make it up.

    • Fergus Pickering

      But everybody knows Marr is a shitbag.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Of the Labour supporting variety.

    • Andy

      Exactly. The idiot Miliband destroyed the market in energy whilst he was Secretary of State. He should be made to explain that. The idiot Brown destroyed competition in banking, virtually forcing the merger of Lloyds and HBoS. RBS should never have been allowed to take over NatWest in 1999, thus reducing competition in the market.

      These are all fundamental mistakes of the last Government for which we are now paying the price. It sticks in the throat to hear this idiot spouting off, not being challenged and called to account for things he and his mates messed up.

      • Colonel Mustard

        “not being challenged and called to account”

        Which is key to what is happening.

        • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

          Agreed…interesting times.

      • 2trueblue

        Well he has the BBC getting him top spot, first thing on the news. Says it all really, a wind bag whittering about providing competition when his corrupt government shut all competition out. No challenge from the BBC, why would there be, the BBC are their mouth piece.

  • southerner

    We have a Labour leader deluding himself he is Teddy Roosevelt.

    We have an un-conservative leader imitating Teddy Heath.

    Sheesh. No wonder people are flocking to UKIP. Not a good decision either but you can see the attraction for disenfranchised conservatives.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Flocking is a bit over the top.

    • 2trueblue

      UKIP so far is one man, listen to the latest nutter.

      • southerner

        One man or not if it leads to the destruction of the current un-conservatives it’ll be a job well done.

        As it is we have the same left wing sheep from all three parties to consider at the ballot box.

        • 2trueblue

          Well enjoy Millipede and Balls being in the centre of what you will get. Good luck.

          • southerner

            Nobody will notice any difference from the current left wing consensus in the un-conservatives.

            • 2trueblue

              Ah well, you can repent at leisure then and enjoy.

              • southerner

                Us conservatives have been doing that the last 3 and a half years.

                • 2trueblue

                  No you have not. It is a coalition and picking up the mess is never pretty. You have led a very sheltered life if you think that letting Liebore back one inch is a good prospect.

                • southerner

                  “You have led a very sheltered life if you think that letting Liebore back one inch is a good prospect.”

                  Where did I say that it was?

                • 2trueblue

                  You are focused on destroying what we have knowingly accepting that Liebore will march back in.

                • southerner

                  You are right I am absolutely focused on destroying what we have – a left wing group of social democrats pretending to be a conservative party. Only when that goes will us conservatives have a meaningful choice at the ballot box.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  When. You are giving uis another thirteen years of Labour. Unless the Scots win Independence, that is.

                • 2trueblue

                  What you will get is a Liebore government, or a LibLab coalition. We will be sunk so far into the EU that it won’t matter what you think of your wonderful strategy. Enjoy it.

            • Fergus Pickering

              I think they will. They will destroy Free schools for a start. And go back to square one with benefits for a second bite,

      • HookesLaw

        I see that after encouraging all the sheep to support the Mad Vicar of Henley and his wave of old testament plagues on our ungodly houses, Saint Nigel has now suspended him.
        Typically Saint Nigel has suspended him, not for being a fruit loop but because he did not do what Saint Nigel said. So much for UKIP being at the heart of ‘free speech’ which is what all the nutjobs thought they believed.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Nigel has every right to suspend him. It’s what Clegg should have done with fat Rennard. It has nothing to do with free speech. Hooky, I’m surprised at you. Being suspended from a political party is not like being imprisoned.

          • HookesLaw

            Of course he was right to suspend him, but not after first pretending it was all right. He suspended him because he did not obey an edict for St Nigel – after previously espousing the principle of free speech.
            You are right about it no beiong like imprisoned – which is why Clegg should suspend Rennard.

  • Magnolia

    I haven’t seen the interview yet but from Isabel’s piece it sounds like Labour only want to increase competition when it involves the private business sector.
    The middle classes want to be able to choose from a range of schools, hospitals, doctor’s surgeries and even perhaps council providers because that would be the stuff of life.
    Labour don’t look to be offering this though do they?
    How can Mr Miliband argue for more competition in banking while opposing free schools?

    • Colonel Mustard

      Perfectly consistent with their portfolio of double standards and hypocrisy.

      • Magnolia

        As typified by the very obvious, rather wide cut, very bright blue tie that he wore for the interview!

  • David B

    Labour do what they always do forgot nothing but learn nothing

  • Doppel1800

    The Tories have only got themselves to blame for giving the impression of not caring about the needs of electors, in particular those of us who used to support them. Somewhere along the line the wheels started falling off their model of privatisation with the consumer getting the crappy end of the stick. Add in bonkers environmental policies and the Tories deserve all they are going to get.

    • HookesLaw

      But the country does not.
      The tories are pulling the country out of labour’s massive recession. I see no evidence of your hysterical ‘not caring’. This is just anothe rcomfort blanket for someone lost in his own prejudices.

      • Mynydd

        ‘not caring’ 50% down to 45% caring for the wrong people. going to the EU courts to ensure bankers can have unlimited bonuses, again wrong people

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          So your brilliant alternative is to saddle the banks with enormous fixed costs instead. They will have to pay enormous salaries instead of bonuses in order to keep the most talented people rather than pay them less if they fail to perform. As for the reduction in the marginal rate of tax, the government is now collecting more revenue at 45% than it was at 50%. But then that is of no interest to a leftist idiot like you whose only concern is wether or not a tax policy is spiteful enough and not that it might collect more income. Another fatuous intervention on behalf of Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

          • Doppel1800

            Are you suggesting banking is a good example of free market economics? As a former banker I don’t think so. The amounts paid to bankers over the last few decades which are continuing despite the government having to rescue banks suggests something went and continues to go wrong. It really is basic economics.

            • Andy

              Far too many ‘bankers’ have been busy looting the bank. It is sick that in some banks the amount paid out in dividends to the shareholders, who own the damn bank, is far exceeded by the amount paid out in bonuses.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              I am suggesting nothing of the sort. If this is a competition to point out 100 things wrong with UK banking and competition therein, I will give you 200 based on first hand experience. The point I am making is that the application of ill-considered electorally appealing but crude ‘caps’ be they on bonuses, market share, balance sheet size, margins etc etc is no way to run a raffle let alone the lifeblood of any economy. Mr Miliband’s intervention is ill considered and crude and has been launched solely because his macro-economic narrative has exploded spectacularly in his face. He even has the temerity to have drawn conclusions from a six month review that has yet to take place. Astonishing. And no, I don’t think the recovery is in any way perfect or even sustainable but the Coalition has proved to be less wrong than the twin idiots posing as Britain’s economic saviours as if they were not culpable for the original problem. Now that really is basic economics a subject in which I am amply qualified and most certainly do not require a trite lecture from you.

              • Doppel1800

                I am so glad you appear to agree with me. As a former banker I would be very interested in your views and your 200 point list. Perhaps we can swap qualifications and yarns some time.

              • Mynydd

                As you say there are hundreds of things are wrong with the banking system, now if Mr Cameron/Osborne had done something about it Mr Miliband/Balls would have nothing to say. As it is their talk and no action as left the door wide open. Most of us are not amply qualified in economics, and see things in a simple way, such as:
                Under the last government my standard of living got a little bit better each year. Under the present government my standard of living as got a little bit worse each year.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Well itmust be getting more difficult to claim excessive benefits under this government than the last.

                • Mynydd

                  I know I am late in replying, but what a childish answer. So to put the record straight; So far I have never claimed a benefit, worked all by life and run my own company, paid my taxes and NIC to ensure if ever I needed help the benefit system would be there for me. You will find that my fellow workers would agree with:
                  Under the last government my standard of living got a little bit better each year. Under the present government my standard of living as got a little bit worse each year.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  That has already been explained to you. Eat less. You will find it is god for your soul.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  You can always make your standard of living bigger if you just max out on another credit card each year. But at some point you will run out of people to borrow from. a. You are now broke with no alternative to eating less.It’s your own fault..

            • Fergus Pickering

              A former banker? Which bank did you run then? And what was your salary and bonus? Working in a bank doesn’t make you a banker and more than working in a publisheing house makes you a writer.

              • Doppel1800

                Well in my case I have worked in a bank as banker and I have also worked in a law firm as a lawyer.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Yeah, eyeah. And I was a fan dancer in another life.

          • Mynydd

            Just think how much more revenue would have been collected if the millions of us had our tax rate cut from 20% to 15%. What is good for the few should be good for the majority.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Well of course it isn’t. Ordinary people can’t move. The very rich can and do. If it’s revenue you want then put up the ordinary rate of Income tax by 2p. Or put VAT on food. . Then you can spend it on whatever you like. Denis Healey, an intelligent man, said he would tax the rich until the pips squeaked. Later he confessed that it didn’t work and that it couldn’t work. Have you heard of the Laffer curve? Have you heard about how President Reagan cut taxes for the rich and increased revenue?. .

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              You clearly have no understanding of how the Laffer curve works.

      • Doppel1800

        Hysterical, prejudices. What do you know? Did you work, as I did, on any of the Tory privatizations. You didn’t need a CSE or an O level on in economics to see the mess ahead.

        • HookesLaw

          I know a political loony when I see one.

          • Doppel1800

            You really are joke but clearly don’t wish to be taken seriously by people with whom you correspond. A poor advert for the Tories but that isn’t saying much.

            • HookesLaw

              I’ve told you elsewhere what I think of you and people who are happy to bring in a labour govt. But the fact is that there is no evidence to support your ramblings and I have no hesitation in telling idiots like you what I think of them.

              We have a govt that has lowered tax allowances has cut the top rate has lowered corporation tax has put a stop to the fuel escalator has stopped labours employers NI increase.
              It is cutting hundreds of thousands from the public payrol has added hundreds of thousands to those in employment. It has capped and is cutting welfare. 900,000 people have dropped their claim to incapacity payments rather than undergo a tougher medical test. A test by a government headed by Cameron. And a govt headed by Cameron is reforming education and if the howls from labour are to be believed is making the NHS live within its means.

              You live in a fantasy world.

              • HJ777

                I think you meant to say that this government has raised tax allowances, not lowered them.

      • Doppel1800

        The Tories were such a useless opposition and so in awe of New Labour their gave Blair a standing ovation of which I assume you are proud. They promised to share the proceeds of growth when it was clear the economy was stuffed banking crisis or no crisis. They then gave a very good impression of deliberately losing a general election and cowardly avoided minority government so they could climb into bed with their wet soul mates in in the LibDems. The so called recovery would make Anthony Barber look like a genius. The so called Tories have not tackled our country’s problems and the proverbial will hit the fan in 2015.

        • Fergus Pickering

          This is silly. How long would a minority government have lasted? Thee months? Three days? A minority government needs tacit support from some quarter. Were would they have got it? Perhaps you have no understanding of politics. Yes, that must be it.

          • Doppel1800

            I am sorry, I didn’t realise there was something arcane about the farce we have been witnessing ever since the Tories elected Cameron as leader. It always struck me as a what you see is what you get scenario. Which is why I ain’t voting Tory till he’s gone.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Don’t answer me. Talk about something else, why don’t you?

              • Doppel1800

                I am so sorry. But what do you expect. I assumed you didn’t want a reply because I wasn’t privy to all that arcane knowledge and understanding about politics. It is like cause and effect. It is the same reason I don’t vote Tory any more. I see a party espousing policies which are bonkers and putting them into effect and expecting me to ask for more. Now that would show a lack of understanding wouldn’t it.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  What policies are bonkers? Immigration policy? What would you do? Tell me exactly. Perhaps the best policy would be to kill the blacks and browns, Hitler-style. Is that a policy of yours? And don’t, for God’s sake,haver on about gay marriage.

                • Doppel1800

                  Mr Pickering (if that is your real name) I find your post both ridiculous and offensive.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Of course it isn’t my real name. It’s my stage name. And stop being all girly. Offensive? If I want to be offensive you’ll know about it. Just answer my question, there’s a love.

            • HookesLaw

              You are just inventing stuff out of thin air. Quite pathetic. People like you who would condemn us to a labour govt to massage your own prejudice make me sick. I despise you.

        • 2trueblue

          The Tories had very little opportunity to give much rebuttal to anything whilst in opposition, the BBC and the media in general did not give them any airtime. When/how do you suppose they should have done it?
          Cameron is not the choice many would have made but he was the first on to get any airtime and we are still not getting any real purchase in the media. Mainstream media are still to the left. The only one who treats them all the same is Andrew Neil. The rest are so biased I am amazed they don not fall over.

          When you have a massive debt in any area, at home, business, whatever, it is darn difficult to come over as ‘touchy feeley’. You get on with the rotten grind to dig yourself out of the hole, and it certainly ain’t pretty.

          • Doppel1800

            The Tories were wimps. They simply were not hungry enough. They prefer slagging of natural Tories to taking on the left. Can you really justify Cameron giving Blair a standing ovation? It made me want to puke.

            And coming from a corporate finance background I know a fair bit about digging companies out of the mire. The Tories under Cameron have been a waste of space. I recently met my MP and the encounter did nothing to change my view.

            • 2trueblue

              What do you think you are going to get in their place?

              • Doppel1800

                We have already got a New Labour tribute band in power so it can’t get worse.

                • 2trueblue

                  Wait and see and be really be depressed. But it will be too late. Your future, those of your children and your grandchildren will be destroyed, over 13yrs there is little that Liebore left of any substance and you think that this past 4yrs are anything like it? I despair at the logic. Go read the Gaurdian.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Oh I think that it can! Miliband is shaping up to combine the worst of authoritarian New Labour with the worst barminess of Foot.

                • Doppel1800

                  Nothing like a bit of nostalgia every now and again for some. Fair does though. The Tories have had their turn letting us be ruled by an exEtonian and former Bullingdon Club member. So maybe it is Labour’s turn. Better get my flared jeans/Donkey jacket out.

                • HookesLaw

                  You are talking rubbish and sounding very unintelligent.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  What exactly have you got against ex-Etonians. What school is OK by you?

            • HookesLaw

              A poor effort. I can certainly justify the politics of applauding Blair on his way out – not least because the entire world was watching and because the tories needed the votes of all the people who had defected to Blair. Millions of people who might have voted Tory had voted not for labour but for Blair’s version of it.

              If the tories want to win an election they cannot manufactiure voters by some kind of genetic engineering, they have to mpersuade people not to vote labour. Just because you come from a corporate finance background does not make you the Brain of Britain.

              • southerner

                It’s true. You could expend effort on saying why people should not vote labour. That should be obvious to anyone with half a brain and take 3 nano seconds.

                What you should also do is provide people (particularly those you nominally say you represent in your own party) with some evidence that you have principles and policies that match conservative values. Cameron and the social democrats hate the conservative party and treat them with contempt.

                • HookesLaw

                  There is no evidence that Cameron somehow hates the Conservative Party. You just invent this rubbish to shore up your prejudice. There is no evidence that Cameron is any different from the centerist leaders the Conservative party has always had. The Conservative party has never been a right wing loony party it has always been a mass party a party of government seeking the widest possible share of vote.

                  We all like Mrs Thatcher – I do – but under Thatcher the Conservative Party disappeard in Scotland. Was that clever?
                  Give us a list of all the voting groups you want Cameron to offend just so he can please you. I am sure he can do it and you in turn can be happy being in your own cosy little party in permanent opposition.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Oh that’s it. Cameron gave him an ovation when he was on hi way out and when Broon was on his way in. You are as thick as two planks but we ories need your votes. Alas that it is so.

            • Fergus Pickering

              I don’t suppose he was very struck with you either.

          • HookesLaw

            I do agree with you on the way in which the tories were ‘shut out’ in Labour’s time. But labour also had it easy with the in-fighting by thick tory backbenchers which undermined their own nparty. The common talk then was ‘we need some time in opposition’. Look where that led to; and of course we see the same line being taken by the 95 traitors again now. They have learned nothing.

            • 2trueblue

              They just don’t get it?

        • Kitty MLB

          Exellent post Doppel,as always.
          The treacherous Camservative Party are heading towards a massive fall next year.

          • 2trueblue

            And where do you think that puts all of us?

            Get real. If Liebore get in again you can kiss everything you own goodbye.

            • Kitty MLB

              Cameron is Cicero’s enemy within,
              we will be able to rebuild in opposition,
              Millipede is hardly Blair we will soon be rid of him, killing two birds with one stone

              • HookesLaw

                Your a fool if you think that.

              • Fergus Pickering

                Mad as hatters, the lot of you. Where is your leader in waiting? Is it you Kitty dear? Is it you, Southerner? God give me strength. If I thought the Tory party was people like you I’d vote for good old Nige. But I don’t. I think the lot of you would just about fill a town hall, not a very big town hall either. Nuitters.

              • 2trueblue

                How you can come to that conclusion beggars belief. Liebore destroyed the UKs infrastructure, educational system, stole aspiration from anyone from a whole generation and you glibly say “Lets do it again” and we can then repair the damage.
                Novel strategy for winning. Must do better.

          • Doppel1800

            Happy New Year Kitty.

            • Kitty MLB

              A very happy New Year to you also Doppel

          • Fergus Pickering

            Ho ho ho. That’ll teach them, eh. They’ll have a SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT. See how they like that. Meanwhile I….er…

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Yes what we really need is another dose of Labour lunacy. A massive structural deficit and another 7.3% contraction of the economy is just what we need. Why not get Milliband to join a coalition with Hollande and then we can really screw the country up properly.

        • Fergus Pickering

          When did the Tories give Blair a standing ovation and in what context?

    • Fergus Pickering

      It’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face and is generally thoought to be childish behaviour.

  • Andy

    Miliband – Ed the Pole – is a complete and utter idiot. This is the man who was Energy Secretary. There were less players in the energy market when he left office than in 1997. The Fascist Labour Party did everything they could to reduce competition in almost every area of the economy – energy and banking being but two glaring examples.

    • HookesLaw

      We know Ed is an idiot but only a bigger idiot would persist in blathering about Ed (born in Camden) ‘the Pole’. But if you want to continue the meme that all kippers are xenophobic please do continue. Does shopping at Tescos and M&S make me jewish?

      • Andy

        And you are a complete and utter moron. Sod off back to the Fascist Guardian where you belong.

        • Fergus Pickering

          What an extraordinary thing to say. Hooky spends large swathes of his time defending Cameron. When did the Guardian do that?

          • Doppel1800

            I thought the Guardian was compulsory reading for the Cameroons.

            • 2trueblue

              No. The Gaurdian is only in business because the whole of the BBC read it, (purcahse fot them by us), and the BBC is really the ‘Gaurdian on air’.

              • southerner

                Perfect for you Cameroons then.

                • 2trueblue

                  Not a Cameroon, just a realist and in life for the long game.

                • southerner

                  Ah ok a realist eh? I call your sort unthinking sheep. Still, best not to get hung up on semantics.

                • HookesLaw

                  Well you have proved that you do irony – at least thats one thing.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  You are doubtless a thinking sheep.

                • 2trueblue

                  Insults always serve when all else fails?

              • Doppel1800

                I seem to recall Polly Toynbee being recommended reading when they were trying to come over soft and fluffy. Maybe you cannot remember that.

                • 2trueblue

                  Oh yes, the woman who believes in ‘relative poverty’. Obviously never encountered real poverty.

                • Doppel1800

                  You really need to keep up a bit don’t you.
                  Cameron swallowed that lefty stuff as well.

                  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6179078.stm

                • 2trueblue

                  Oh yeh. Get a life.

              • telemachus

                Run of course by a Tory Chair

                • HookesLaw

                  The BBC is not run by a tory. He is just chairman of the triustees. The BBC is run by the Director General – with a salary of £450,000 pa
                  As the BBC themselves say ….
                  ‘The Director-General is the Chief Executive Officer of the BBC, its Editor-in-Chief and chairs the BBC’s Executive and Management Boards.
                  The Director-General is the editorial, operational and creative leader of the BBC, with responsibility for a significant global workforce and the Corporation’s services across television, radio and online.’

                  You are a thick fool.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Yeah, right. Here is an example of BBC impartiality.

                  http://order-order.com/2014/01/20/see-the-bbc-noticeboard-mocking-tory-cock-ups/

                  In many ways I think the BBC are worse socialist scum than the Labour party.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Yeah, right. Here is an example of BBC impartiality.

                  http://order-order.com/2014/01/20/see-the-bbc-noticeboard-mocking-tory-cock-ups/

                  In many ways I think the BBC are worse socialist scum than the Labour party.

                • 2trueblue

                  Not so. Just a figure head, whom they should have got rid of.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Well, you thought wrong. The Guardian is the organ of the Labour Party. Labour Party. That is the opposition. The people whoattack Camerion’s government every day.

              • HookesLaw

                The plain fact is the numpties have no arguments other than to misrepresent Conservatism and call everyone who disagrees with them ‘socialists’. This is of course what Miliband is doing in reverse in his interview. He misrepresents what the toiries are doing and labels them extremists, but on the right.

            • First L

              Only to laugh at.

              I hope it goes bankrupt as soon as possible. Odious paper.

          • southerner

            “Hooky spends large swathes of his time defending Cameron.”
            That’s why the Guardian is the perfect home for him. That’s what all the socialists read isn’t it?

            • Fergus Pickering

              Oh, you’re another of those ‘Cmeron is a socialist’ creeps. Tell me, who is NOT a socialist. Who is a true conservative. And don’t say Enoch. He’s dead in case you hadn’t noticed. Do you have to be very old and very stupid?

        • HookesLaw

          Thanks for expounding on your ignorance. I am of course a long tiime and proud Conservative voter.

          • Doppel1800

            I guess someone has to stay to turn the lights off.

          • Andy

            You might be a ‘proud Conservative voter’, but you are NO Conservative.

            • HookesLaw

              ‘Oh yes I am’

              You are the one b@sterdising what Conservatism is all about.

              • Andy

                “Oh NO you are not’

                You don’t understand the first thing about Conservatism, as your useless contributions (if one may even call them that) on here so amply demonstrate. You are not quite as stupid as tellytubby, but that is hardly saying much.

                • HookesLaw

                  I know what the Conservative party is all about and it is not about the mean spirited xenophobic garbage you spout. It is a mass party seeking mass appeal and not the narrow divisive prejudiced bigots that you represent.

                • Andy

                  Like I said you don’t understand what Conservatism is, and one doubts you ever have. You throw around the petulant insults at everyone on here like a member of the Labour Party. You are merely a remnant of the Heathites, hence your Europhillia, which knows no bounds nor any reason.

                • HookesLaw

                  I am not a Europhile or a fan of Ted Heath. I am a Conservstive and despise the odious oiks of UKIP whose purpose is to destroy the tory party and elect a labour govt.

                • Andy

                  Cobblers. You are a Europhile fanatic in the mould of Heath. Every single thread on here where there are negative comments made about the European Union brings you out in a rash. You’re all over them slagging off anyone who disagrees with you. You’re not a Conservative and never will be.

                • HookesLaw

                  You are dim. There is only one fanatic between us and its not me.
                  The biggest danger this country faces is a return to a Labour govt. One drawback of which would be that we would not get a referendum on the EU. Far from it – the desire of Labour is to take us deeper into the EU. I welcome the prospect of a referendum in 2017 and will vote for the party that will give it to me.

                  Far from being fanatical about the EU I am quite sanguine about if we leave – provided we stay in the single market and can guarantees continued inward investment. The point you miss is the big lie coming from UKIP. There will be very little difference from being in the EEA as opposed to being full members of the EU and I for one am not so thick as some people clearly are as to let me sleep walk in to voting to allow in a Europhile Labour govt.

                • Andy

                  You are a Euro Fascist and always have been. As I say sod off back to the Guardian which is your natural home. Everyone who disagrees with your extreme views is ‘dim’, ‘ignorant’, ‘stupid’ etc, etc, etc.

                  You are no Conservative merely an ignorant, rude piece of scum.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Manners, manners! Wash your mouth out with soap. What would your sainted mother say?

            • Fergus Pickering

              When I use a word, said Humpty-Dumpty…..

    • 2trueblue

      Less energy companies, less banks, less housing, and a lot lot less money by the time Liebore left office. In fact there was little they grew apart from our debt and immigration.

      • southerner

        A project the social democrats in government are perpetuating.

        • telemachus

          The only Social Democrat in government is Lansley
          And he is a busted flush

      • telemachus

        And the health service
        And school buildings
        And the wages of the poor

  • Slim Jim

    Milliband needs to learn that when talking utter schecht, it doesn’t make it any better by wild arm and hand gesticulations, and grinning like a baboon. He was utterly slippery, slimy and unimpressive on Marr this morning. What will Labour’s policies be? More state control and higher taxes, that’s for sure.

  • Matthew 88

    All tactics and no strategy. A true son of Brown

    • telemachus

      Yes
      A true son of Gordon
      And like Gordon he will give us a decade of prosperity, a welcome break from the dreary coalition and its falling living standards
      *
      And unlike Gordon he has in addition a charismatic partner to oil the wheels

      • HookesLaw

        I think it must be true after all, that you have a mental age of 7.

        • telemachus

          I guess an insult is the greatest sort of flattery in that it shows you have no answer to the premise of the post

          • HJ777

            He certainly was flattering you by describing your mental age as 7.

            I would put it at no more than half that.

            • telemachus

              Would you explain your Boeingoid moniker to thise round here without the intellect to decipher

              • HJ777

                Your intellect is too low to have any chance of understanding the explanation.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  He has no intellect whatsoever. Arguments as to wether or not it is high or low are thus superfluous.

                • telemachus

                  Try me
                  I am intrigued

      • Colonel Mustard

        Still at it then. A pea brain supported by a brass neck.

        The only wheels those three ever oiled were the ones taking the UK down the spout to disaster.

        • HookesLaw

          ‘A pea brain supported by a brass neck’ …. ah if only I had thought of that. Sadly lost to me now forever.

          • telemachus

            Hooky
            You are a second rate intellect supporting a second rate party
            Even the high raters around here see you as a crackpot

            • HookesLaw

              ‘Oooh no I’m not!’

        • telemachus

          You should be proud and trumpet that Gordon saved the world’s banks from the disaster induced by the right wing Bush Administration

          • Colonel Mustard

            What a stupid comment.

            • telemachus

              You might say that
              Except that it is true

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Tagged tripe as usual on behalf of Labour the party of lies, lying and filthy liars. His economic narrative ( it cannot be dignified by the Word ‘policy’) has exploded in his face at every level and so he has reverted to ‘banker bashing’. His narrative here is simply directed towards vote catching but is ludicrous as policy. Firstly, what insurgent into the UK banking market would want to saddle itself with the cost of Hundreds of expensive town centre branches? Second, what concrete evidence does he have of a lack of competition? He seems to have decided the outcome of a 6 month review before it has even taken place. Third, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his proposals would increase competition. Fourth, government intervention in the banking market has a very sorry record. The FSA, that monument to the catastrophic hubris and wishful thinking authored by Brown/Balls was unfit for purpose and oversaw the first British banking collapses n 150 years. Fifth, he has a very selective memory. Miliband was part of the government which suspended competition rules so that Lloyd’s was forced to take over HBOS. That did not work out well for the British taxpayer did it? Then there is the usual hypocrisy of being part of a government that enjoyed bank tax revenues while failing to ensure that they were adequately capitalised. Miliband was an adviser to Brown at the time although quite what that inexperienced idiot could advise is anybody’s guess. Labour the party of lies, lying and filthy liars.

        • Mario_Ferretti

          “… what concrete evidence does he have of a lack of competition?”

          Well, widespread collusion as proved in the LIBOR affair, perhaps?

          “… there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his proposals would increase competition”

          Could you substantiate that? Mind you, your lack of faith in Labour and Mr Miliband might be well justified even if you cannot. Yet …

          • telemachus

            What on earth are you on about
            You are either with us or you are against us
            Only LibDems sit on the fence

            • Fergus Pickering

              I think she’s against you, old son.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              Further evidence that Labour is a tribe not a political party where alternative views are met with intolerance and hatred. Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

              • Andy

                That’s you marked for the Gulag.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Better than living in a Britain led by the Labour party. The party of lies, lying and liars.

                • telemachus

                  Quite

          • Fergus Pickering

            Would you switch your bank account from, say, HSBC, to some new outfit you’d never heard of unless it offered sweeteners. And how would the new outfit find the money to undercut HSBC. And presumably the small bank would be small enough to fail. Do you want to put your money into bank that could fail? Thought not. This is a bum idea and it will never come to pass, even if,, by some dreadful mischance, Milibum gets to Number 10.

            • Mario_Ferretti

              Thank you for noticing my post. Three main points as a rejoinder:
              (a) Breaking up banks is certainly costly, as it involves giving up scale economies in risk management; yet collusion is arguably even more costly; and the only alternative to avoid it seems discretionary regulation, which in itself is a police-state kind of thing.
              (b) Unless banks are small enough to fail, credit risk (by itself inevitable) is forcibly shifted on to taxpayers, which seems both inefficient and unfair. Let risk rest on shareholders (not depositors), as in any other healthy business.

              (c) This is a basic free (i.e. competitive) market approach. You might be right that British Labour cannot be trusted with it in practice. Shame the others have left it to them by default

              • Fergus Pickering

                Your points are well made. But I come back to my point. Why should I switch from HSBC? And why should I welcome the competition which may cause HSBC to close my convenient branch? Solutions are difficult and Labour can’t really be trusted with this, can they?

                • Mario_Ferretti

                  What you seem to be asking is why economic competition —as opposed to monopoly power — is good for society. Is it really possible that you do not know already? The short answer is: more and better things for more people at cheaper prices, as both a-priori reasoning and historical experience abundantly show. The long answer requires whole libraries, and they are already there for you to use: so just look them up, if you wish. As to trusting Labour for promoting effective competition, that’s of course a quite different matter. But perhaps you cannot actually expect to understand even the latter if you are confused on the former.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  You are doing the usual thing experts do. You give a long and diffuse response and tell me I’m too stupid or uneducated to grasp wht you are saying. Somebody who really knows is able to answer shortly the question asked, or even to say ‘I don’t know, which is what you are really saying. Yours is part of what Bernard Shaw called ‘the conspiracy against the laity’.If you ask me what he means I will tell you that there are whole libraries….

                • Mario_Ferretti

                  Thank you for considering me an “expert”. All the same, I would never dream to say (or think) that you are “too stupid or uneducated to grasp” what I’m saying (otherwise it would be rather silly of me to be talking to you at all, wouldn’t it). Rather, I notice that you have chosen to simply ignore my “short answer”. Just wondering why.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  My ferretti, my question was why should I leave HSBC which is, by and large, a very satisfactory place for my account. They are venal bastards, but so are all banks. The basic tenet of true conservatism is ‘better the devil you know’.

                • Mario_Ferretti

                  You are of course entitled to any “basic tenet” you wish, and nobody is trying to dictate your personal decisions anyway. Yet, talking about society as a whole, had all people always been strictly sticking to the devil they personally knew, we would still be dwelling on trees, wouldn’t we. So your
                  circumspect “basic tenet” — which I personally sympathise with — might perhaps sometimes be usefully blended with a somewhat more forward-looking approach. Free competition is just providing the required room for that, should anybody feel interested.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  And if it were not for people like me then civilisation would have been destroyed by mad revolutionaries. Carlyle’s ‘French Revolution’ though practically unreadable, is my text. And Nabokov’s ‘Bwnd Sinister, whose hero says he will never sign any petition etc he has not written himself.

                • Mario_Ferretti

                  I see. Your being influenced by Carlyle — whose Hegelian cultural roots were in fact shared in various degrees by all of Europe’s “mad revolutionaries” of the past two centuries — does certainly not help you to see any virtues in liberty — of which free competition is actually a part. Yet you might perhaps forget for a while about abstract ideology, focusing instead on practical things like history. You owe the modern European civilisation you so rightly cherish to the institutions and social culture created by the British Whig followers of John Locke and David Hume. As an Italian, I very much envy you that heritage — while at the same time can very clearly see the shadow of Carlyle-style hero worship behind the tragicomic “mad revolutionary” Benito Mussolini. And even
                  Karl Marx had his roots in Hegel: think of that.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I never think of Hegel. I once, when I was younger and cleverer, read 56 consecutive pages of Hegel a,d went out from that same door as in I went. I gather Heidegger and Husserl are even worse. What is it about the letter ‘H’?

                • Mario_Ferretti

                  “What is it about the letter ‘H’?” Nothing really, I suppose. May I suggest you try good old Hume, for a change.

          • HookesLaw

            Under labour and as I recall Balls knew about it.

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Firstly, appointing a competition authority to conduct a 6 month (inadequate amount of time) should be about determining wether or not a lack of competition exists. It is not about instructing that authority about what its conclusions should be as Miliband proposes. Second, Collusion over LIBOR rates is evidence of collusion/possible criminal activety not a lack of competition per se. It is therefore a regulatory issue not a competition issue and thus your point is irrelevant. Third, if you set, for example a market cap of 20% it is likely that 5 big players will accrue 19.9% market share and then refuse additional business in order to remain ‘legal’. Competition will thus be reduced not increased. Also. Miliband quotes caps which were set at a national level in the US and which are virtually irrelevant. This whole issue, which has clearly received no thought for the reasons set out above, is a populist move designed to cover up the fact that his economic narrative has proved to be ludicrous at ever level and a spot of banker bashing is reckoned to restore his polling figures.

            • Mario_Ferretti

              “Collusion over LIBOR rates is evidence of collusion/possible criminal activety not a lack of competition per se. It is therefore a regulatory issue not a competition issue and thus your point is irrelevant.”

              Cannot you see that collusion is a standard anti-competitive behaviour, whose end is market power (i.e. the ability to rig prices), and is illegal under anti-trust legislation precisely because of that? So my point is far from being
              “irrelevant”: it’s the whole problem, actually, whether you see it or not. Think again.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                You are clearly not very bright and struggle to think coherently. There are literally thousands of banks providing a LIBOR quotation and by any normal standards of reasoning that suggests their is adequate competition in the marketplace. Collusion between banks to fix those rates for their collective advantage and to the disadvantage of customers is firstly a criminal activity and second, evidence of a regulatory failure. The fact that its outcome may be characteristic of anti-competitive behaviour is evidence that the criminal sanctions are inadequate and that the regulatory body in question is not functioning properly. It does not mean however, that there are insufficient competitors. If those thousands of competitors behave legally and withing regulatory guidelines then customers will get plenty of choice. Finally, I suggest you take it up with Ed Miliband.It was after all, under the auspices of the FSA set up by the last Labour misgovernment that these malpractices took place.

                • Mario_Ferretti

                  “There are literally thousands of banks providing a LIBOR quotation …”

                  Oh dear! Under the old BBA rules they were in most cases actually 12 (single banks, not thousands of them). It seems rather clear you are somewhat innocent on the matter, and just insulting me will not save you from the consequences of not knowing what you are talking about. Of course, nobody can know everything. But, if I were you, I would just stick to what I happen to know, leaving LIBOR and banks well alone.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  You are referring to reference banks whilst I was referring to the number of banks which price at LIBOR. The point remains the same, that competition is stifled by ill regulated and illegal activity not by lack of competitors per se be it 12 or 12,000. Clearly a distintion that you are unable grasp so all my comments remain apposite.

        • telemachus

          You really are a nasty piece of work
          Tell us all one lie that the party of reason has promulgated
          And then reflect on a party that yesterday morning your party said it was OK to say that floods were Gods retribution for gay marriage
          (before you bleat I am aware they were forced to retract this true reflection of Faragian thought

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Firstly you idiot, I am a conservative and not a supporter of UKIP. Second, there is nothing reasonable about the Labour party whose only purpose in life is to persecute those who disagree with its criminally insane social and economic policies. Thirdly, it is a bit rich for an apologist for the murderous Stalin calling somebody a nasty piece of work. Finally, Finally, Labours inability to acknowledge its role in creating the biggest economic failure in peacetime with its huge structural deficit and 7.3% contraction of the economy is proof positive that it is the party of lies, lying and liars.

            • telemachus

              All I will say is that Uncle Joe saved millions of allied lives by doing for the Krauts a good year before we could

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                Yese that is all you will say because you never respond to issues. Only a supporter of Labour the party of lies, lying and liars would speak in favour of cruel and odious murderer like Stalin in order to avoid the real debate at hand.

                • telemachus

                  You will be denying that the bullets found in the murdered Poles in the Smolensk Forrest were German next

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  I am afraid you will have to take that issue up with both the government of the former Soviet Union and the present Russian government both of whom have admitted responsibility for the Murder of Polish officers at Katyn. My opinion carries little weight compared with the official Soviet and Russian line that they were responsible.

                • Stanislav Romanov

                  Nobody deny fact commit crime by the soviets.Crime not explain to today.Murderer forest Smolensk as communists polish build new for 1945 year new Poland.To work in security army one person become even premier of Poland an under name Minc .Agent old Kommintern.After crime smolensk him give Gestapo an under name Penz a effect pact Ribbentrop-Molotov.All unit killer soviets give gestapo and SS.After war become Pole’s.Today their progeny be even become governments ministrys.Shame.Murderer of Katyn Ivan Kowalenko as ss-man killing in Isurecctions warsaw’s 1944.After II war become chief security polish in the city Lublin an under name Jan Borowski.He to be brother Bierut President of Poland.All history to hide fact’s and history by the communists polish and Walesa & company to lead politic to be call In the pass devide fat line.It official.We mean Pole’s only to get tousled after jaws annouce you idol Lech Walesa.Issue this shame of Poland.

              • Fergus Pickering

                You are too good to be true. What are your thoughts on Lenin. O master? On Mao? On Pol Pot. All good socialists, I wuld have thought.

          • Colonel Mustard

            “You really are a nasty piece of work”

            Pot. Kettle. Then some.

            • Fergus Pickering

              Imagine being reduced to quoting beeb clone whose name I quite forget. He sought to insult the sainted Boris..

        • Chris lancashire

          Could I just congratulate you an excellent, succinct and accurate analysis of Labour’s past involvement and present policy on banks.

      • HJ777

        A decade of prosperity financed by running up credit, inevitably followed by a decade trying to pay it off, you mean.

        • telemachus

          Look son
          You are benefitting as we speak from the magnificent investment in health put together by Gordon
          Before Gordon 50% of folk were dying on cardiac waiting lists and our older generation were waiting 5 years racked in pain before getting their new hips

          • HJ777

            I’m not your son – is that clear, little boy?

            And it is unclear to me how I am “benefitting as we speak” from extra NHS spending when I haven’t used any NHS services for many years.

            In fact, despite tripling NHS spending, average NHS waiting lists (including those for surgery, such as hip replacements) rose in the first 10 years of Labour:

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-treatment-waiting-times-rise-under-labour-791334.html

            Only after this did they begin to fall at all.

            Most of the money (much of it borrowed) was spectacularly wasted, as Derek Wanless who recommended the spending increases in the first place, observed.

            This left us with a medical service which, according to the OECD in 2009 was one of the least efficient in the world, as it makes clear here:

            http://www.oecd.org/eco/growth/46508904.pdf

            http://www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/46507653.pdf

            “The quantity and quality of health care services remain lower than the OECD average while compensation [i.e. pay] levels are higher. Reinforcing competitive pressures on providers could help mitigate price pressures, e.g. by increasing user choice further and reforming compensation systems”

            • telemachus

              2#
              Insurance my child

              • HJ777

                Well, naive little kiddie, surely even you realise that the NHS is not an insurance-based system and that what it provides is pretty much up to the NHS unlike insurance-based systems where you have far greater legal rights?

                But, of course, now that Miliband is in favour of more choice and competition, he will be arguing for a system of competitive social insurance providers and competitive medical services providers as in most of Europe, where services are both better and more efficient than the NHS, won’t he?

          • HookesLaw

            If Browns extra spending on the NHS was spent wisely then how come in the 2010 election Manifesto could Brown say the NHS could make 20 billion of savings?
            If there was 20 billion of savings sloshing around, why did Brown spend the money in the first place?

            You are a fool.

            • telemachus

              He had put in the investment
              In 2010 he was being fiscally prudent in the face of the Lehman spin off

    • HookesLaw

      And especially good of the Spectator to follow up Miliband’s TV interview by publishing a matching paean by Lord Wood and further hagiography by Ms Hardman.
      How come the BBC and The Spectator are bringing up Roosevelt in a co-ordinated effort to allow Miliband to steal his clothes?
      Wall to wall Labour propaganda published by The Spectator. How they must be laughing on Sark.

      • telemachus

        Hooky
        Time to hang up your boots

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