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The spite and vindictiveness of the British state

9 December 2013

12:06 PM

9 December 2013

12:06 PM

Good luck to Trenton Oldfield, his wife Deepa Naik and their newborn baby today: it’s Oldfield’s day of judgement. He will find out if he is to be kicked out of the country, as Theresa May apparently wants. The tribunal hearing is at 1400.

Oldfield, if you remember, disrupted the Oxford-Cambridge boat race a couple of years back and served a bizarrely lengthy prison sentence as a consequence. I did not – and still don’t – agree with his protest. But it hurt nobody, endangered nobody apart from himself and the boat race was concluded. It seems to me to have been a rather grandly eccentric protest in a great British tradition.

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What is not part of the Great British tradition is the spite and vindictiveness on the part of our state which followed. I assume the state is taking its wrath out on Trenton – who, incidentally, works for a living, has not claimed a penny in benefits and provides work for other people – because it is unable to kick out the real nutters, the Islamists who wish to blow us all up, or Somalian rapists who can’t be deported in case they find Somalia an inclement place to be. Oldfield is an Aussie, and we can treat them just how we like.

A bunch of Oxbridge dons have written complaining about his treatment, here’s part of it:

101 public figures provide testimonials in support of Trenton Oldfield

Tribunal Monday 9th December, Taylor House, Rosebury Ave, EC1R 4QU

On Monday 9th December a judge will decide whether to accept the Home Office’s application to deport Trenton Oldfield who was imprisoned last year for disrupting the Oxford Cambridge boat race. (1) Trenton’s choice of target was designed to highlight the injustice of growing inequalities being presided over by a government cabinet composed of almost 70% Oxbridge graduates. His intentions have been met with a grossly disproportionate response by Theresa May whose representatives will seek to prove at the tribunal that Mr Oldfield is “not conducive to the public good”, has “undesirable” associations and even presents a “threat to national security”

This is not the first time there has been political intervention to ensure that Trenton is punished for an entirely peaceful protest. Having initially been charged with a low level public order offence, Trenton found his charge upped to one of “public nuisance” under a 12th century law which the Law Commission has said should be scrapped. This followed the intervention of a conservative MP Michael Ellis who raised concerns that “one idiot” could cause such disruption at a sporting event in a Home Affairs Select Committee just ten days after the boat race.

Although public response to the protest was initially divided, there has been widespread opposition to the heavy handed treatment of Trenton. 10,000 people have signed a petition calling for the removal plans to be dropped and supporters include MP Peter Hain, who played a high profile role in the anti-apartheid movement, and leaders of 6 major trade unions. (4) Around 250 Cambridge University academics and staff have also expressed anger that such “a draconian penalty be applied in the name of an event representing their institution”. Author Danny Dorling who has written widely on issues of inequality will be amongst those providing character references in the hearing itself. 101 character references written by public figures can be read here.

The persecution of Trenton takes place in the context of increasing criticisms about attacks on the right to protest in Britain including of the crime and anti-social behaviour bill which will give greater powers to councils and police to prevent or disperse protest if it risks causing “public nuisance or annoyance”.

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Show comments
  • TheBoisterousSeaofLiberty

    I agree, but we all know that if he wasn’t a leftist the good old Oxbridge dons wouldn’t give a monkeys.

  • justejudexultionis

    Given the ubiquity of CCTV in the UK, I would suggest that dissent and protest is becoming nigh on impossible within this culture. The implications of increased state interference and surveillance of our daily lives are very frightening indeed, especially with Parliament effectively neutered and all major political parties spouting a doctrine of neoliberal idiocy, and prepared to accept the raping of our society by major multinational corporations. Fight for your liberties or see them destroyed.

  • jazz606

    If I went to Australia and disrupted a major sporting event, The Melbourne Cup for example. I would expect to be on a plane back to dear old blighty the very same day. So I don’t understand the fuss about Trenton Oldfield’s potential deportation.

    Kick the bum out !!

  • IrvSwerve

    Anyone remember what finally happened to the British immigrants to Australia who were being forced to leave because they had broken their entry conditions.This was to reside within the boundary of ( I think)Sydney.Due to some confusion over where the boundary actually is they rented just outside the official line.
    Makes this present case pale into insignificance.

  • rtj1211

    ‘The persecution of Trenton takes place in the context of increasing criticisms about attacks on the right to protest in Britain including of the crime and anti-social behaviour bill which will give greater powers to councils and police to prevent or disperse protest if it risks causing “public nuisance or annoyance”.’

    What’s the definition of ‘public nuisance or annoyance’??

    Is that PUBLIC annoyance or just annoyance of one self-righteous busybody??

    If the latter, protest is dead.

  • Jambo25

    I entirely agree with Mr. Liddle’s point. I doubt that Mr. Oldfield would be my favourite dinner guest but to deport him for what he did is ludicrous. We have truly dangerous and unpleasant nutters of various kinds which government will do little or nothing to get rid off. Why is the state pursuing Mr. Oldfield to the point of persecution.

    We had a vaguely similar situation, up here, in Scotland where the Home Office tried to deport a popular and possibly irreplaceable American teacher from the village school in Ae. Why? God alone knows. At the same time my son, as I have previously noted, stayed not too far away, in Bedford, from a Rwandan genocidaire and nothing was done for quite some time. Who is running our immigration and deportation policies. To use the ECHR as an excuse doesn’t wash as the French, Italians, Germans etc seem to have far more leeway, within it, than the UK does.

    • Daniel Maris

      So your claim is:

      What Trenton Oldfield did was neither “dangerous” nor “unpleasant” nor “nutty”.

      I submit you are wrong on all three counts.

      It was dangerous to himself and the crew. Had someone caused his death inadvertently that would have been an extremely traumatic event for the person concerned. Equally he could have caused the death of a rower, given one of them did collapse after the event, requiring medical evacuation.

      “Unpleasant” – if to destroy the innocent enjoyment by millions of a sporting event is not “unpleasant” I don’t know what is.

      “Nutty” – I would suggest that Trenton Oldfield is a preening narcissist and that subject to the courts requiring some sort of psychological evaluation he may well have some condition which may result in him repeating this sort of dangerous action.

      • Jambo25

        I’m afraid that you and I will simply have to disagree on this

        • Daniel Maris

          OK, but any time you want to explain why it’s not dangerous to deliberately swim in front of boat crews working at extreme physical exertion, or why it’s not unpleasant to destroy an innocent free sporting event enjoyed by millions, or why it’s not nutty to engage in such behaviour, feel free.

  • B__2

    ‘THE man who jumped in the Thames to disrupt a boat race has told an immigration tribunal he could never return to Australia as it is “too racist” for him and his family.’ (Daily Telegraph, Australia)

    Sorry Britishers, but we are so sorry we could not get him back here in Australia since we are so racist. Oh well, our loss, your gain. So sad.

    ‘”Australia is a particularly racist country,” Mr Oldfield said, explaining that his wife had never visited Australia and couldn’t live there because some Indians in the community had suffered violent racist attacks.’ (same article as above)

    I live in a predominantly Indian suburb in Australia and the attacks were primarily from ME immigrants over a young male turf war. Other assaults on Indian students were done by gangs of Somalian immigrants, and another famous assault described as a racist attack was at the hands of another Indian man. There is no such general racism that I see – but please don’t use this to discredit Mr Oldfields assertions – he’s yours now. The article says that a UK immigration tribuneral has accepted his assertions and he will be allowed to stay in the UK.

  • wheres_fenton

    The spite and vindictiveness of the British state? Tommy Robinson has had his assets frozen for the last five years, despite never having been charged with any financial crimes: I guess that’s the price of voicing controversial political opinions.

    • Daniel Maris

      I wonder when we’ll hear the truth about the state’s campaign against Tommy Robinson? In 50 years’ time?

  • The PrangWizard

    I think he ‘got off’. I expect to see him soon on the BBC, as he is now another one of their Lefty heroes. Question Time maybe?

  • Flintshire Ian

    He is not by any means top of the list of undesirable aliens who need to be kicked out (RoP types tend to fill the spots on that list) but the sheer arrogance of his reported comments even after the Judge said that he could stay suggests that we could get along fine without him and his family.

  • George Smiley

    Eh, excuse me, but we already have far too many left-wing Australian subversives here in England, thank you very much indeed! Deporting Trenton Oldfield would indeed be a very good start. They ultimately the enablers of Mohammedan terrorists and hate-preachers, and thus are even more dangerous than the former.

    Let them carry on with their left-wing subversion in France, Holland, Scandinavia, Canada or somewhere else. Remind me, but which ex-Australian told us to vote New Labour back in the year 1997?

    Oldfield’s wife is British, by what? Is she related to Zakir Naik the Indian Mohammedan preacher by any chance? A pair of subversive foreigners, the pair of them! And isn’t his wee bairn what the Americans would call an “anchor baby”, enabling him to invoke Article 8 of the ECHR in the HRA? He either planned this all along, or he was grossly irresponsible as a father.

    • Mike

      I doubt it as he’s white !

      • George Smiley

        A white who gives his daugher an Hindu name is not a white.

  • George Smiley

    Eh, excuse me, but we already have far too many left-wing Australian subversives here in England, thank you very much indeed! Deporting Trenton Oldfield would indeed be a very good start.

  • DougS

    It’s a difficult one this!

    He’s not being threatened with deportation because of what he did, he’s being threatened because he’s a national of a country that’s:

    a. Civilised

    b. Not in the EU

    If he was Somali or Polish or Bulgarian it would be no contest, the ECHR would make damned sure of that.

    Time to vote UKIP and bring back to the UK the power to decide on these things.

    • global city

      The Tories fancy that this will be a bit of red meat thrown at the slavvering xenophobes…. wrong country, wrong ‘crime’.

    • Daniel Maris

      Well you just lost UKIP a few votes with that idiotic post. This guy is a complete A hole. If you are going to let people into this country purely because they are white and had some Brit ancestor, however idiotic and anti-social they are, well that is absurd.

      • DougS

        That’s ‘Mr Idiot’ to you Danny Boy!

        Are you trying to misunderstand – on purpose?

        Who mentioned ‘white ‘people? Who mentioned ‘Brit ancestors’ – apart from you?

        What’s infuriating here is that they can’t deport some of the worst criminals, either because they’re EU citizens or because they’re from dodgy countries – or even because they avoided the law for so long before getting caught that they’ve established a ‘family life’ here.

        This guy looked like easy meat by comparison!

      • gerontius

        “Well you just lost UKIP a few votes”
        I doubt it. Those who would take issue with his post won’t be voting UKIP in the first place. You have made the elementary mistake of assuming that that which offends you, neccessarily offends all others.

        There ought to be a name for this error – lets call it “Daniel’s Folly”

        Though I do, however, take issue with the implication that Poles aren’t civilised. I’m married to one and they are very civilised – well, until they decide not to be.

        • DougS

          I didn’t say that Poles were uncivilised gerontius.

          The two categories of country that you can’t be deported to are; uncivilised and EU – Somalia’s in the former, Poland and Bulgaria are in the latter!

          • gerontius

            Apologies if I misread you(reading at speed), but don’t spoil my Polish wife joke.

  • The Bellman

    Do they hold sporting events during Home Affairs Select Committee hearings these days? Things have changed since my youth. How exciting.

    I assume the dons were not philologists, unless they were expressing their love of the English language in a tortuously sadistic manner.

  • anyfool

    He will be deported because he is white, it is politically easier, they can use it as a cover to say they are deporting undesirables, I would pity the child regardless of what happens given a name like that, but if Hain is supporting him give me the extradition order and I would sing it instantly.

  • Agrippina

    As part of his case to remain, he said that if he was deported to Australia his wife would face racism, as she is of Indian descent. They had been in Canada taking care off her father, prior to the incident, that got him into trouble in the first place. I am sure that they would have been fine in Australia.

    I do hope that more of the really nasty illegals and undesirables are got rid off, instead of trying to make an example of a white aussie to make the tories look tough on immigration, when we know that they are nothing of the sort.

  • Eddie

    If only about a million others could join him in the Met Police shuttle to Heathrow. Over and out.

  • sarahsmith232

    are you sure you’re right about the ‘we’re not subsidising him’ part? Check the Guardian, he’s pictured w/ his wife & kid outside their flat, er. . . their taxpayer subsidised East London council flat.

    • sarahsmith232

      just thought, the wife will, without any shadow of a doubt, be claiming working tax credits for the kid, these 2 are classed as self-employed, oh, they’ll be claiming tax credits alright. Plus, they’ll be making sure they’re getting their child benefit. YOu can bet your life there’/ll be some housing/council tax benefit going too.
      Prob’ net beneficiaries of the taxpayer, rather than contributors, these 2.

  • Frank

    Sadly, we are stuck with the t**t, as the immigration chairperson has decided that he is too valuable to Britain to kick out!

    • Daniel Maris

      Oh what a surprise, not. Why was Rod ever worried? Still they will probably build a statue to Rod in his home town now showing him lending a hand to the bewhiskered and manacled Trenton, pulling him up from his state of humiliation and wretchedness.

      • Noa

        A little censorious, surely, Daniel? :-)

  • Tom M

    Of course in an inverted way the Home Office could be trying to point out that we are prepared to deport all wrong-doers not just the Islamists or Somalians that Rod Liddle refers to above. Lets hope that if this is indeed what the Home Office is trying to establish that they will indeed follow it up to the logical conclusion.

  • Noa

    A bunch of Oxbridge dons Rod?
    Looking at them, including ‘Orange Pete’ Hain, most are firmly attached to the public teat, In fact I’d categorise them as the very embodiment of the ‘bien pensant’ you like to give a regular spanking to on this blog.

  • Doggie Roussel

    OK, he’s an attention-seeking pipsqueak (Trenton, not Rod). Are the same people who want this ineffectual twerp deported, the same people who will tolerate all the terrorist nutters who poison and pollute our country

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      It that a trick question?

  • Paul W

    He knew when he did it, he was committing a civil crime. To do that when you are waiting for your papers is the action of a nutcase.

    • Doggie Roussel

      We have enough of our own nutcases… we don’t need any Australian ones.

  • roccolore

    So let me get this straight. You want to kick out an Australian for disrupting a boat race but the same people fight to keep terrorists in Europe.

  • Mr Creosote

    I thought Oldfield made the event more interesting than usual, the only downside was some toffs in a canoe got cold.

    • rodliddle

      yes, I thought that too. But that didn’t figure in my argument.

      • Daniel Maris

        The Boat Race is one of the last great free sporting events in the country – it’s almost an insult to capitalism, something that Trenton being so irredeemably thick can’t see…and sadly, you seem to be equally myopic on the subject.

        There are very few toffs in the boats these days. They are mostly Americans and Germans.

    • arnoldo87

      “more interesting than usual”
      Since when has the Boat Race been interesting?
      “less boring than usual” would have been more accurate.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Residence in this country is a privilege, We are not obliged to provide homes and opportunities who abuse that privilege. Throw the smug fckr out. And that goes for every bit of lowlife who break any laws. An immigrant is supposed to improve us not make the place s#itter than it already is.

    • Flintshire Ian

      He’s even an even smugger fcker now the Judge has said that he can stay.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yep, a TV prog must be the next logical step.

    • Mike

      We seem to provide all manner of benefits to those immigrants not of a white christian back ground even when they preach hate ! Whats wrong with this picture !

  • Tony Quintus

    “But it hurt nobody, endangered nobody apart from himself”
    Endagered nobody except all the people in the chase boats which had to take emergency action to avoid killing him.

  • Daniel Maris

    You are publishing a lot nonsense these days Rod.

    Didn’t hurt anyone?

    As I recall one of the rowers collapsed at the end and had to be medically evacuated. They were stuck out on the water for about 20 minutes in the cold – it could easily have resulted in a fatality among the rowers or at the least serious irreparable harm as happened to some marathon runners in the past.

    The guy is a completely cossetted d’head. Goodbye, Australia is welcome to him.

    • rodliddle

      Oh get a bloody grip, Maris. You sound like and HSE employee.

      • Daniel Maris

        I think I just got censored.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

          Censured, surely. Your post is still there.

          • Daniel Maris

            The whole of a post is a missing. It was there briefly.

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

              Ah. I hope you save them at time of writing. Substituting other characters for letters can work, if the mods are touchy.

              • Daniel Maris

                It may have been my suggestion that RL had limited knowledge of sporting exercise…

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Ah…. Whatever gave you *that* idea? :^)

                • Daniel Maris

                  I don’t know. Call it intuition. :)

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Cheeky!

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

        Ever fallen into cold water, Rod? I have, in a boating exercise off a dock. Yes, off a dock, in Canada in the summer. I got hypothermia right away and felt all the power drain out of my body. When they pulled me out I tried to speak and it was gibberish. (Cue snide commentary from Lefties!)

      • gerontius

        Rod,
        Health and Safety be damned. Have you seen the cricket score? Deport him in chains. It’s about time we reverted to type and became seriously bad losers once again – it would be so invigorating.

  • http://www.thoughtsandrantings.com/ Thinking Americanist

    Pardon the intrusion by an American. But, his reasons for doing that which he did seem rather stupid. In fact, he sounds like most liberal Democrats here in America.

    My Blog: http://www.thoughtsandrantings.com

    Good Day!

  • MikeF

    Yes the race was concluded but only after a disruption so severe that it was rendered meaningless. Remember also the look on the man’s face after he was fished out of the water – one of utterly smug self-satisfaction. He was totally indifferent to the fact that he had ruined an event of interest and pleasure to literally millions of other people. All he was concerned about was the vindication of his overweening self-righteousness. Yes we should kick out non-British nationals found guilty of crimes such as rape and if that means sending them back to countries where they may endure some rough treatment so be it. But I see no reason to extend greater clemency – though not, of course, equally stringent initial punishment – to similar individuals who show such vandalistic and criminal contempt for the legitimate pursuits and interests of the citizens of this country.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

      ‘He was totally indifferent to the fact that he had ruined an event of interest and pleasure’

      I’m willing to bet that was part of the satisfaction.

  • Colin56

    Rod, why has it taken you so long to realise the British state is spiteful and vindictive? Most of the rest of us woke up to that many years ago – probably while you were editing the Today programme! Anyway, congratulations on catching up: now you’ll understand how the ordinary population feels about the country and its so-called ‘administrations’.

    • rodliddle

      Oh Christ, welcome to Dave Spart.

      • gerontius

        The one where Rodney loses his sense of humour

        • rodliddle

          How so? And it’s Roderick. Not Rodney. Lower middle, not working.

          • gerontius

            “How so?” Well you sound pretty tetchy even now (I was sympathising by the way- a little bit) and this guy is no Dave Spart. He lacks the belated awareness of his contradictions that always made Dave such a delight.

            Apologies for the Roderick, but nobody had even heard of Roderick in the Walthamstow of my youth, Rodney was fairly posh – ” Wodewick? Wodewick? Bloody foreigner, ‘ere tel, ‘eave ‘alf a brick at ‘im!”.

            • arnoldo87

              Wodewick – didn’t he get weleased?

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

              At least you didn’t call him Ron.

              Walthamstow. What does that make us: Walthamstowians? Too posh-sounding. Has to be Walthamites.

              I listened to a ‘Dave Spart’ clip the other day because I had no idea who Roderick was talking about. ‘Belated awareness of his contradictions’ is a perfect description.

              • gerontius

                Did you mean this Ron?
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P56sE3kuxs0
                Be careful, Swanky, Rod is all powerful on this blog and if we are not careful we shall be undone.

                • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

                  You mean Fraser Nelson is not the God of Rod as I had supposed? Well I never. If Rod ever needs a Goddess of Rodness, I’d like to be first for consideration : )

                • gerontius

                  I know what you mean Swanky, but you be wary of trusting in the good intentions of men called Roderick, or similar: The English lower middle class is deservedly notorious.

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  You missed it? I was riffing on rhymes and near-rhymes as songwriters like to do. I won’t do a smiley face. Assume, if you would, that most of my lines have smiles at the end of them. (That one did, especially.)

            • Noa

              Oh God, Wodewick? ‘Why do they titter so?”

              Sorry Rod, you’ve probably had to put up with it since puberty, but here goes once more:-

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lc86JUAwwg

  • Noa

    There is little sympathy in Rod’s post for the impossible task facing the government in balancing the respective human right to stay and enjoy family life of say, Somalian rapist Mustafa Abdullahi or Romanian thief and Big Issue seller Razvan Dumitru.

    But difficult choices must be made, and it is a tribute to the courage and integrity of the Home Secretary and her dynamic team that a crazed, anti-boating colonial is returned to Australia, together with the Ashes.

    • Mike

      Why should there be any empathy as Government always over reacts or selectively cherry picks how it goes about its business. If there was consistency there would be no issues but for the past 20 years we’ve seen so many inconsistent rulings based on political expediency rather than fairness and rule of law that they get no sympathy from me.

      • Noa

        That was rather my point, Mike, but, irony is often, though not always, missed.

    • Cornelius Bonkers

      Well Noa, you’re obviously on the ball about this. Being an “anti-boatingist” is a shocking crime which should receive the full force of our laws. There is clearly a balance to be struck between the “harms” caused by anti-boatingism and those caused by rape, mutilation, theft, FGM, homophobia, domestic imprisonment and so on and so on. Bloody Australians, they’re not even persons of colour (well, most of them aren’t!).

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

        ‘mutilation… FGM’…. Let’s add circumcision to that roll call of abuse.

        • Cornelius Bonkers

          Indeed, why not!

          • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

            Ha ha, good man!

      • Noa

        Obviously you’re snother chap that leaves the irony to the wife!

        • Cornelius Bonkers

          Well N, somebody has to keep the faith yo!

      • Doggie Roussel

        In fact, it’s only the tinted ones that are ‘true’ Australians !

        The convicts etc that we put out with the rubbish and dispatched to Australia; once they had done their porridge Down Under, they proceeded to completely rid Tasmania of its aboriginal population and tried to effect the same result on mainland Australia… but the vastness and hostility of the landscape made their avowed aim impossible.

        These days, the pinky-fingered and socially pretentious white Australians have to make do with decrying the racism and oppression of nations other than their own, while at the same time quietly neglecting the rights of their own original population.

        The stench of hypocrisy is manifest in so many parts of the world these days.

        • Noa

          And in doing so the Melbourne, Adelaide and Canberra liberati, pink shadows of their Notting and Primrose Hill brothers and sisters, have proudly created their very own racism and equality dependency culture.

  • James R

    ”The British wife of Australian boat race protester Trenton Oldfield says the couple have to fight his impending deportation because the government’s decision is affecting their five-month-old daughter.” Guardian
    He should have thought of that in the first place then shouldn’t he ?
    Sorry,Rod.Get rid of him. He’s a pillock. Hopefully his wife will join him, if they’ll let her in.They can continue their attention seeking stunts down under where the clement weather is more conducive to jumping into the water and disrupting boating events.

    • Lara

      The last I checked, being a pillock was not a punishable offence. Since when was it ok to give one group of people one set of rights and another group another set? Everyone has the right to protest peacefully and the right to be prosecuted fairly under the law. Whatever actions Oldfield took should be prosecuted under the law if necessary – just as would happen if you or I were to do the same.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

        ‘Everyone’? Even non-nationals, in all cases? There’s a line somewhere, isn’t there? I think it’s instructive that La Raza — ‘the race’ — and other Mexican immigrant groups, whether in American legally or not, feel they can protest in large marches to tell Americans what our policies towards them should be, most vociferously. They can try twisting the arms of our elected representatives. While over in Mexico, it is illegal as a matter of constitutional law for non-Mexicans even to assemble for political purposes, and certainly to stage protests. See Article 9. Only Mexicans may participate in the political life of the country.

        Be fair, but don’t let opportunist adversaries abuse your good nature, I’d say.

        • Jambo25

          The UK isn’t Mexico. Our standards are higher or, at least, used to be.

          • Mike

            Sure, the UK is different, it pretends to have equality but in reality it doesn’t. At least Mexico makes no bones about it and you accept it if you’re an alien.

            • Lara

              Being honest about not treating people equally does not make it a better alternative

              • Mike

                No one said it does but the UK’s hypocrisy over discrimination makes it worse than countries where we can actually see that discrimination.

            • Jambo25

              Foreigners can take part in political activity in this country. There is no law against it. That’s the point.

              • Mike

                Technically you’re correct BUT its very easy for those in power to discriminate against non UK persons (or UK persons) if they so wish with regard to immigration laws. Depending on the ‘social engineering’ that’s in vogue at the time they can pretty much choose who they let in or kick out.

                Probably because I was white, I was subjected to intrusive questioning on entering the country last August via a south coast port which they had no right nor reason to subject me to. I lodged a complaint to the Borders Agency and they actually apologized for the ‘zeal’ of some jobsworth at immigration.

                My point being is there’s no set rules in place on how immigration controls work or should be implemented and its left to a whim of a pen pushers to decide. That brings in all their personal prejudices on their decision as to how they operate.

                • Jambo25

                  I think that it’s probably quite the opposite. I think officials have been stripped of initiative. They act under centrally given rules and suggestions. So they act in line with whatever the latest centrally laid down line is. If any of them go OTT, as one seems to have done in your case, you can at least complain and get an apology. I doubt that’s the case with Mexico.

              • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

                Yes, but the issue raised by this Australian obstructionist is what exactly should constitute legitimate protest. The identity or status of the protester is not entirely irrelevant.

                How would you feel if a group of people that you thought had done harm to the country in some respect, had come here as a result of the underhand England-deconstructionist policy of Blair, Brown & Co. — without democratic mandate — and had caused the polity and economy to be skewed in a bad direction for the nation, decided to gather as a political faction and march on Downing Street? Or organized militant parades through London or other cities? It will come, if Britons don’t get serious about such liberal-democratic self-rule as they have left.

                Immigrants that don’t share your political assumptions will take that mile, trust me on that one.

                • Lara

                  The whole point of democracy is that they have the COMPLETE RIGHT to do that. I may not like it, you may not like it – but that is the price I am more than willing to pay for freedom of speech and freedom in general. People can march and shout and protest as much as they want. Sometimes I will agree with a cause, sometimes I won’t – but who am I to say who should speak and who should not?

                • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

                  I think the point is that what we’re doing now is speech. Other things are intimidation. There’s a difference. I also think that citizenship means something. It means an investment in one’s society in a profound way. Residents that come here to create change we don’t want and didn’t ask for mean trouble for the very freedom of speech you cherish.

                • Jambo25

                  I don’t like Oldfield. I am quite content that he was punished. My point is the same as Mr. Liddle’s, deporting him for a fairly minor offence is vindictive and seems to be being done as a form of displacement activity by the Home Office to take peoples’ minds off the real nutters who seem to be immune to any government action. I don’t mind foreigners taking part in political activity and I don’t even mind that some of them might break some minor laws.

                  IU do object to the lack of government action to deport dangerous offenders.

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Fair enough.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

            As with Lara, you’re missing the point behind the example. I’ll give you a hint: apart from any other consideration, such as law-abidingness once here, it matters HOW and WHY the migrants got here. I don’t think that illegal aliens, as they are officially known (or used to be very recently) should intimidate the legal residents and bully them over immigration, benefits, employment, or anything else. Do you?

            • Lara

              Could you explain your point? I am interested in understanding it

              • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

                Hi Lara, well I don’t think it’s all that opaque, but I fleshed out one angle of it in my reply to Jambo25.

            • Lara

              If people are indeed intimidating, bullying or have an illegal status that can and should be dealt with within the law. Where I see an issue is with a so-called democratic society denying anyone freedom of speech or action if it harms no one. You can’t silence people solely because you don’t share their point of view – not if you are to claim to be an advocate of democracy and freedom (which perhaps you don’t)

              • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                Patriot of liberty here, Lara. I even designed the tartan for it:
                http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=10928

                My original description for this began with ‘Liberty knows no borders’ and mentioned my ‘free countries’ but the Scottish Registry took all that out for some reason. Not allowed to call free countries free or even acknowledge that no one country has a monopoly on freedom or the exclusive possession of it. Given the Scottish Registry’s track record of world kumbaya teach-the-world-to-sing soggy socialism, they surprised me.

        • Lara

          I strongly question a “good nature” that says that people are permitted to share the country but are not allowed a voice.

          What could be more integral to a fairness than allowing all people to voice their opinion?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6p-aT8w20 Swanky

            Right, I think you missed my point a bit. Nothing in this life is unconditional, except maybe the love of parents for their child. (And eventually, not even that.) This applies to residence in a country, especially if it’s a country wherein you have no birthright to be there. The idea of ‘when in Rome’ does have some validity. Britons should not allow people the benefit of living in Britain, only to turn around and be undermined by those same beneficiaries.

      • George Smiley

        Dangerous Community, Commonwealth and foreign subversives should always be deported whenever the opportunity arises. England and Great Britain would not be such a toilet that she is in if she had deported the parents of Trevor Phillips as undesirable immigrants.

    • Mike

      When Islamic nutters preach hate on the streets of the UK and the authorities look the other way I hardly think that this mans ‘crime’ was serious !

  • crosscop

    It’s my view that any immigrant who commits an offence of any sort in this country should be immediately booted out. We have enough problems ( and eccentrics) of our own without importing more.

    Arresting someone and seizing their computer for telling Mandela jokes is perhaps a better example of exactly where we are, though.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2520662/Neil-Phillips-quizzed-8-HOURS-police-Nelson-Mandela-Twitter-jokes.html#readerCommentsCommand-message-field

    • artemisinfrance

      I think that’s Rod’s point. If all offending immigrants faced thé same sanctions, hé wouldn’t be defending Oldfield. The Mandela joke story is worrying. Is Britain slowly becoming a police state? Only if you are a law-abiding citizen, it seems.

      • MikeF

        “Is Britain slowly becoming a police state?” Yes – in a word and as the result of quite deliberate and calculated sectarain lawmaking intended to destroy this country’s traditions of free speech and tolerance and replace them with a conformity based on legally enforced intimidation of people who dissent from the nostrums of ‘left-liberalism’ and ‘multiculturalism’. The tools to this end are ‘hate speech’ and ‘anti-racist’ laws, which actually have nothing to do with protecting the arbitrarily selected ‘minorities’ they purport to defend but are instead about making the great mass of people afraid to express and stand up for traditional freedoms and standards of behaviour.

        • Wessex Man

          It’s even worse than that- Proposal of the European Council on Tolerantion and Reconcillation for a Framework National Statute for thr promotion of Toleration for the EU’s ‘Equal Treatment Directive.’

          In which it is proposed that if the nation state considers any organisation or individual to be behaving in an intolerate way then they should be face intolerant action.

          Don’t take my word for it just check it on the EU site.

          oh and ther’es an excemption for Muslimns.

          • In2minds

            Well said Wessex Man. EU law and the UK. It’s not just Trenton Oldfield as ,typically, UK public servants show a poor sense of judgement too. In their case they ‘gold plate’ EU law. Look at the pic above, three fools in a row, we may assume the UK police will over react?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        “Is Britain slowly becoming a police state?”
        I question the word “slowly”.

        • DougS

          I question the word ‘becoming’ as well!

      • greggf

        Rod’s point is that uniform enforcement of most of Britain’s laws is a joke.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      “any immigrant who commits an offence of any sort in this country should be immediately booted out”
      What, no exception? Not even over-staying your Waitrose parking limit?
      Immigration regulations are reciprocal, so all residents abroad should be viewing HMG vindictiveness with concern.
      Best to withhold comment until tomorrow when the decision on Trenton Oldfield`s future is handed down.
      Jack, Japan Alps

      • gerontius

        “Not even over-staying your Waitrose parking limit?”
        I didn’t think that constituted an offence, though it is a greivous affront to good manners.(I speak as a committed Waitrose customer)

        • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

          Well, that’s two Ws we have in common: Waitrose shopping, Walthamstow like the creature from the Black Lagoon, and is there a third? We know it’s not ‘Warmed-Over Leftism’.

          • gerontius

            Go on! Were you really wafted there from Walthamstow?.
            You not one of my lost relatives are you? – there are quite a few – somewhere.

            Cultural reference bit:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jeGLrvy5i8

            • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

              Ha ha! Thanks for the link. Yes, I really am originally from Walthamstow (don’t know much about it as we moved to Sussex when I was an infant). There’s something about W. I’ve never escaped. Which partly explains why I’m here.

    • Mike

      Both are equally over the top and whilst we saw the three security stooges at a select committee hearing spouting cr** over terrorists threats, government will abuse its position as has happened here and pull out that lame terrorism threat card.

      On the tasteless Mandela joke, I agree with you that really does demonstrate the draconian powers that the UK state can invoke when it allows wet liberals to instigate criminal investigations over the sort of jokes previously heard from Bernard Manning and other comedians.

      When the French concorde crashed at CDG there were a lot of tasteless German jokes doing the rounds but back then the thought police hadn’t got their act together. It was no different when the shuttle blew up with the first female astronaut. Today however, it would wrongly be classed as racism rather than bad taste.

    • IainRMuir

      “Arresting someone and seizing their computer for telling Mandela jokes is perhaps a better example”

      Exactly. When I saw the headline, I hoped that the blog was about this disgrace.

      Perhaps the British State could provide us with a definitive list of the people we are allowed to joke about and people we aren’t. I’ve got a pretty good idea what it would like like however.

  • Mark Dubbery

    I’m sorry Rod but if Peter Hain and the likes of Len McLuskey are in favour the bloke must be a class A wrong ‘un. Add to that the fewer Aussies hanging about the pub the better at the moment and you have a cast iron case for deportation.

  • Pootles

    I think the chap’s protest was a bit stupid, to put it mildly, but I’d agree with the argument that he’s being picked on. Last year, I sat next to an Australian academic at a dinner at Oxford. She was here as a visiting fellow, and, although it was well into her first term, she was still smarting at the fact that she’d had to wait for a very long time in the ‘non-EU’ passport control at Heathrow. Why was she upset ? Her father had (unlucky chap) fought in both the First and Second World War for Australia, and for Britain, on the Western Front and in the Western Desert. One of the government’s lesser known immigration policies also appears to be booting out Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians, while preparing to commemorate the Great War.

    • First L

      No problem with our ANZAC cousins over here. But not criminals please. He’s convicted, he endangered other people and he ruined a national event for his own purposes – he’s come over to a foreign country with the intention of telling us how to run our country. That means he has no better aims and objectives than Al Qaeda even if he’s more peaceful.

      Why do foreigners think they have the right to tell us what they think Britain should be? Kick him out, let him try being a revolutionary in Australia.

      • Pootles

        Yes, he was rather silly. I suppose I was just using the story to make a more important point about Aussies/Kiwis/Canucks.
        I understand that he went to a private school himself. Not surprising really.

        • George Smiley

          There are probably more Chinese blood in Australia, New Zealand and Canada than British and Irish these days!

          • Pootles

            Increasing, yes, just as in the UK. But, take Australia, for example, which is still 92% White European descent, and 75% of British or Irish descent. In fact, Australia is more ‘European’ by origin than the UK is.

            • George Smiley

              The Chinese in the towns is the ones that really matters. They are the ones who increasingly control the whole Country.

    • Daniel Maris

      Excuse me, thousands of our people died in the most appalling circumstances either in Burma or as POWs having tried to stop the Japanese aggressors taking over in the area in WW2. Had the Japanese succeeded. they would have gobbled up Australia in the same way they took over so many other objectives.

      Does that mean that the grateful Australian authorities in an outpouring of sentiment wave us through at customs in Sydney? Does it F! Of course it doesn’t . Please grow up.

      • Pootles

        Stop being so stupidly aggressive – are you a little man ? That wasn’t my point, or the Aussie academic’s point, of course. Instead, the contrast was between the EU entrants and Australian entrants; that is, between those to whom Britain might reasonably be seen to have close ties, and those who have much less in the way of ties to this country. Also, you could take issue with your view of the war in the Far East – in fact, Australia was pretty much left on its own, and it was the Australian defence of Papua New Guinea that stopped the Japs in their thrust towards Australia.

        • Daniel Maris

          Australian strategy was based on the Sinagporean Strategy and both Australians and Brits fought side by side to try and stop the Japanese advance.

          • Pootles

            That is absolutely true of Singapore; I quite agree. However, it was the Australians, along with some Americans, who fought a long campaign against the Japs in New Guinea. It was victory in that campaign that saved Australia from Japanese invasion. The UK was in no position to really help – look at the poor defence of Singapore, the Repulse & Prince of Wales fiasco, and the inability of the UK to provide Australia with aircraft or heavy weaponry (hence, the CA Boomerang, for example).

    • George Smiley

      Reciprocity. No separate gates for British, Irish and even New Zealand subjects applying for admission and admittance into Australia either.

      • Pootles

        Indeed, and the origin of this state of affairs is the UK being taken into the EEC by the Tories, and kept in the EEC/EC/EU by both major parties. Kept in despite all the evidence that, at the least, the British people might like a referendum on the issue.

        • George Smiley

          Sorry, but this is—just like the British myth about Malaya—the national myth (lie) that the Commonwealth and Government of Australia originally fed to the Australian public. White Australia wanted for a long time to “nativise” herself, and slowly divest herself of her British, Irish, European and even Christian patrimony. The EEC was only a convenient pretext; and essentially the same for Canada, that Trudeau, a Quebecker himself, wanted to appease the Quebeckers by making Canada less British, at any cost. New Zealand appeared to have somewhat followed Australia’s suit.

          • Pootles

            Yes, I agree with all that. The other end of the story, though, is undoubtedly the British political elite’s move towards the EEC/EC/EU, multiculturalism, and globalisation.The elites in all our countries have been pushing the same agenda for a long time now (some 50 years). A good, small but significant, example of the process was the replacement of commissioned officer rank badges in the Canadian Army (which was also absorbed into an amorphous ‘Canadian Forces) with little Maple leaves. Interestingly, that has been reversed recently and the stars, crowns etc have returned, along with ‘Canadian Army’ etc. Sadly, the old flag is unlikely to return.

            • George Smiley

              We can’t really turn the clock back, alas. As the World became richer, greed, nationalism, jealousy, the demise of the British Empire, the United States of America as a superpower and even the Aeroplane allowed the four Commonwealth Realms to grew apart—not the naturally anti-British antipathies of the Irish emigrant especially in Australia and Canada, in that order, helped. Life would had been so much different if Australia were in fact in the Caribbean.

              • Pootles

                Indeed. An interesting point about the Caribbean. I wonder, too, how that would have played out if the white indentured serfs (slaves, but with a long term hope of release) had not been replaced by the slave based plantation system in the Caribbean ?

    • Jambo25

      Does anyone remember the case, some years ago when a Sikh ex-seviceman who, I think had won the VC, was treated like dirt, while waiting to enter the UK to see his family here? Really classy.

      • Pootles

        I can’t recall that – but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

        • Jambo25

          I hate to say it, Pootles, but it did rather shock me at the time. I didn’t think that this country had sunk that low. I’ve learned since.

          • Pootles

            Yes. If I get my Biblical span of years, I’ve less than 20 left, and I am increasingly bemused (when not cross or despairing) by contemporary UK, and England.

            • Jambo25

              The problem is that we now seem to have lost the concepts of right and wrong in UK law. It seems to incorporate merely the expedient.

              • Pootles

                Yes. I would tend to agree. Why isn’t there some (affordable) club where silly old buggers (like myself) can go and lament these developments?

                • Jambo25

                  Perhaps you and I could join together and form the ‘It’s all gone pear shaped and I don’t like it club’.

                • Pootles

                  Sounds just the ticket. With comfy armchairs, threadbare rugs, bangers and mash, and decent drinks.

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Genial serving wenches?

                • Pootles

                  My dear Swanky! Are you volunteering?

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  I was hoping for an armchair myself, behind a curtain and near the bar. Heh heh.

                • Pootles

                  With a comfortable dog (boxer?) basket nearby? Will you be a rival for the attention of the genial serving wenches?

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Tell you what, Pootle: as long as the barman is handsome and charming, you can have all the wenches to yourself. And boxers don’t use baskets. It’s beneath their dignity and anyway they wouldn’t fit!

                • Pootles

                  My apologies – my dog experience is limited to Cocker Spaniels. Actually, the comfy chairs, threadbare carpets, and drinkies are more my concern.

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Understandable. What do you want do with the threadbare carpets, though? I suppose it means they aren’t some ghastly polypropylene with Tesco Every Day Value on the back.

                • Pootles

                  Yes, it’s all about the right ambiance, an objection to the new, ‘going forward’, globalised ideology that brought us, for example, the ‘future schools’ building programme that saw schools rebuilt as corporate headquarters lookalikes. No place there for threadbare carpets.

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  Indeed. Local high school, quite stylish in the old manner, is now an art museum. Glad they didn’t demolish it, but don’t know what was wrong with it as a school. Declining enrollment, probably.

                • Jambo25

                  And elderly ladies in black dresses, white,starched doily aprons and those little white, starched hats that real waitresses used to wear

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  I think our fantasies have moved on, J. ^

                • Jambo25

                  Purely for serving drinks or High Tea. Nothing dirty. My really filthy fantasies involve female Tory MPs in ballet tutus.

                • http://ajbrenchley.com/ Swanky

                  LOL!

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