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Nigel Farage is right – let the Syrians come, but let them stay

30 December 2013

11:27 AM

30 December 2013

11:27 AM

It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that Nigel Farage has appeared to out-leftie the three main parties on the subject of asylum for Syrians. It just surprises me that anyone is surprised.

Ukip as a party is opposed to mass immigration, and believes that the social costs of ‘diversity’ vastly outweigh the short-term economic benefits of migration. But the gift of asylum is something else; no one is saying that Syrians are needed to enrich our culture or add vibrancy or make cappuccinos for people who work at the Economist, they just need to escape from a hellish war or they may die. Of course we should give refuge to more.

But we shouldn’t pretend to ourselves that this is a temporary matter. I found Paul Collier’s Exodus hugely rewarding, but where I disagree with him is his belief in the application of short-term refuge. Rather our asylum policy should always assume that the people are here forever, and get them on their feet as soon as possible rather than leaving them to rot in Margate alongside understandably resentful locals.

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If you look at the waves of refugees who came here in the past – Huguenots, French royalists, Russian Jews, Hungarian anti-Communists – in none of those cases was it safe for any of them to return home, except maybe for another 40 years. Syria is unlikely to be mended soon, and if Syrians are coming to Britain, they’re staying here; let’s not keep them hanging on benefits or pretend we can get them home, something which only makes the voters more cynical about asylum.

One proviso is that it shouldn’t be the state’s responsibility, but rather that of charities and voluntary groups to find the refugees housing and food until they are able to support themselves; the churches will easily find enough people willing to help; so would secular groups through Kickstarter and Twitter.

A few years ago I argued in favour of granting preferential asylum to Iraqi Christians, since they were the most vulnerable people in that country and under UN rules asylum can be given to a group endangered by ethnic cleansing. Apart from Sweden, most of Europe has told them to take a hike, mainly because they didn’t want to be seen as ‘discriminating’ in favour of Christians.

In the case of Syria the Christians are again especially vulnerable, although I think Britain should just take whoever we can save; but practically speaking it would have been easier if Syria’s Sunni, Shia and Christian neighbours and near-neighbours had agreed to taken in refugees along confessional lines, as it would have provoked less public hostility in Europe and therefore eased the burden on Turkey, Jordan and the Lebanon.

But there are too many mental hurdles for our ruling class to overcome, including their refusal to accept that some groups of people integrate better, even if this principle allows people to die. That’s all part of a deeper problem of why the public distrust them on this issue so much, and why Nigel Farage is so popular; as Chesterton might have noted, he has that rare mix of qualities in the public sphere – truth and pity. Once again he has shown his moral and political instincts are just right.

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Show comments
  • Terry Field

    God, not more muslims; he has taken leave of his senses.
    I never understood why my mother said you should strain apple jelly through a muslim. Anyone know how it would help?

  • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

    How will we know if they are the right kind of Syrians ?

    • Terry Field

      They will have a sunni disposition.

      • Daniel Maris

        …and we won’t take any old Shi’ite.

  • Trofim

    With regards to Syrian Muslims, or any other Muslims, there is already a huge refuge, insurance scheme and mutual help charity made available by all Muslims for all other Muslims – it’s called “the Ummah”. They don’t need us.

  • Dutchnick

    Support them with food and aid but apart from the Christians we should let no others in. It is a faith that is largely responsible for most of the problems and though having lived and worked in Muslin countries for some 18 years and being an athiest I have to say that it is faith that offers us nothing. Let them stew.

  • foxoles

    Tell you what, Ed – they can all come and live with you.

    What’s that you say? Not enough space? No excuses, now!

  • http://english-pensioner.blogspot.co.uk/ english_pensioner

    Let’s compromise, and let in Christian refugees from Syria.
    Otherwise we should use the foreign aid budget to provide humanitarian assistance to the refugees in the countries where they are, which at least would be better than spending the budget to fill various dictators’ Swiss bank accounts.

    • Makroon

      Why should we accept Syrian Christians (a majority of whom are probably backing Al Assad) ? If you are thinking about “cultural compatibility”, surely we would invite well-educated, non-religious Syrians (there are plenty), from any Syrian background.

      • http://english-pensioner.blogspot.co.uk/ english_pensioner

        At the risk of being regarded as racist, I simply don’t want any more Muslims in the country, as we could yet see similar inter-denominational strife break out here.

        As for Assad, I am still of two minds. He did keep the peace for a fair number of years and it appeared that most people could go about their lives in peace provided they didn’t get involved in politics. There is some merit in dictators, Iran, Syria and Libya have all ended up in chaos without one!

        • Jim Baden

          You’re not racist, you’re not xenophobic. Those terms are about race, not religion. Some will say you are Islamaphobic, but I deny this, because that describes an irrational fear. Personally I’m simply angry and concerned. The media doesn’t have a cliche word for that, do they use the others.

        • Trofim

          You’re not a racist. Islam is one of Europe’s – nay – one of the world’s foremost social problems. One might even say – pace Gee Officer Krupke – a social disease.

  • 21stcnow

    Farage is right. Lets have a Syrian living in ever Kipper home. That should demolish their clost racism!

    • anotherjoeblogs

      why would you want Syrians to stay with racists ? Seeing you oppose racism, they can stay with you and you can pay for looking after them. I bet you would really love that.

  • mrsjosephinehydehartley

    Personally I think it’a matter of great shame for any nation to find it’s citizens are looking elsewhere for asylum, in effect throwing themselves uninvited against the general hospitality of other nations, regardless of the greater costs and burdens to society and the world.

    Host nations should be able to claim back the costs of keeping asylum seekers from whence they came.

    It’s like the story in the Bible of the importunate neighbour..the householder didn’t get out of bed and open his doors for his clamouring neighbour during the night because he was his friend..but to get rid of the need of the neighbour..which is something slightly different.

    • Daniel Maris

      OK – back to Bible Class with you Missy. Incidentally the Bible also makes clear you should give up all your worldly possessions and hold them in common with your fellow Christians – off you go and sort that out.

      • George Smiley

        Are you sure that you were reading the Bible, not the Little Red Book by Chairman Mao?

        • Daniel Maris

          I know my Bible matey boy – better than many Christians.

      • Jim Baden

        Many would like to give them out to fellow Christians, but that’s not who they’re being told they’re paying for.

  • Pip

    If you believe they should stay then I suggest you house and pay for them, otherwise stfu. Typical lefty fool, so generous with other peoples money.

  • saffrin

    Ha, Nigel Farage is going to lose himself the next general election if he doesn’t change his stance on this.
    Syria has nothing to do with us, we aren’t involved in it, we didn’t start it, so let the Syrians that did worry about the problems they themselves created.

    • Daniel Maris

      Nonsense, he’s playing the whole electorate here. It’s important he puts on some ethical armour. Now, whenever he’s interviewed, he can say “I’ve said we should play fair genuine refugees like those fleeing the violence in Syria – violence that would have been made worse if Cameron and Hague had got their way. Britain can be proud of its tradition of welcoming genuine refugees. The Conservatives and Lib Dems don’t want to welcome genuine refugees. But then they just open the flood gates to all comers. It’s weird, but more importantly it’s wrong.”

      Farage is being a politician as he must. I think he had to protect himself against the mudslinging. He has. Well done.

      • George Smiley

        Except it is not up to him, UKIP or anyone else or even the Queen to do so, for England is not and never Nigel’s or anyone else’s personal lordship and dominions for him or them to give it away.

  • Agrippina

    They will remain here and we can’t afford to take anymore. Free tax payers money
    to live on, social housing and benefits for all their children. Refs and asylum seekers get larger sums than Brits on benefits. Why would you return to try and eke out a pittance in a god forsaken dump without any welfare. They will all claim to be christians & therefore unable to return. The murderers who are currently fighting will claim that they will be beheaded so cannot return.

    At present folks turn up frm Ethiopia, Nigeria & other african countries all claim to come frm Somalia, Congo, Eritrea ‘hot countries’ to claim asylum. The Warren St bomber claimed to be somalian, is in fact ethiopian. We cannot distinguish so we let them all in and they know it. Combined with the ‘I will face the death penalty upon return’, the killers can stay too.

    BBC had a prog ‘In search of the Brit Dream’ Radio4 (28.01.13) still available to listen too. The africans, asians and latinos(spanish & portuguese speakers) all turn up in other parts of Europe. Gain citizenship and turn up here, for the gen benefits, able to pray at mosques built on every st cnr here. Spain hardly builds any, Holland & Germany the locals kept asking them when they wld be going back
    hme, made them feel uncomfortable, they all turned up here.

    Plenty of room in Qatar, Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Oman, Bahrain, Iraq, Iran etc to take them in and they all have lge sovereign wealth funds. They are muslims will settle easily in those countries with the same religion and culture. We are killing off our elderly & disabled ‘principles, can’t afford them gov’, a la Mr Dolittle to Prof Higgins in Pygmalion.

  • swatnan

    Nigel is wrong. We need to redraft the Rules on Asylum and Refugees first formulated 70 years ago. The World is a very different place. And taking in Refugees and Asylum Seekers only encourage the proponents of Civil Wars. Its their Nations; its their Peoples; and it should be their responsibility. Humanitarian Aid merely prolongs the conflict and increases the misery in the long term, and is no solution at all.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I would agree to a limited number of Syrian Christians settling here permanently.
    I would not agree to any Syrian Muslims. There are plenty of Muslim countries they can go to.

    • Makroon

      Which “Syrian Christians” would those be ? the Falange murderers ? the mainstream Catholics who tend to support Al Assad ? the Greek orthodox community ? the Assyrian church ? I think we should be told !

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …as long as they’re not the islamofascist murderers your buddy Dave is in love with.

  • Smithersjones2013

    [Yawn] I wondered how long it would take a (closet) urban liberal elitists to trot out the standard delusional hackneyed drivel about immigrants again.

    Leaving it to charities and support groups doesn’t work. Most successful charities are dependent on government to subsidise them. In the beginning yes the charities might be able to support an influx of refugees but once the population has moved on to the next disaster the charities will turn to the government to make up any shortfall.

    Further to that they have no authority over these people who whilst taking their charity can otherwise do as they please.The last group we should leave these people in the care of are our new class of vagrants (charities who always seem to have their hand out).

    I may be open to offer some refugees temporary haven through the government but any sort of back door immigration under the current immigration regime via impotent charity sector groups is totally unacceptable!

  • anyfool

    Where would they go if there was a civil war here,

    • JoeDM

      If or When ?

  • the viceroy’s gin

    I’d suggest the Camerluvvies stop aiding the islamofascist murderers in Syria, as a first step.

    Then, the Camerluvvies should put some pressure on their islamofascist pals in Saudi Arabia and environs, to get them to stop supporting the islamofascist murderers in Syria.

    That would get the humanitarian ball rolling in that region, if the Camerluvvies would stop siding with islamofascist murderers. .

  • Denis_Cooper

    “let the Syrians come”

    How many?

    All 22 million of them, or just the 2 million who are said to have been displaced by the war, or what?

    You can’t just say “let the Syrians come” within answering that question.

    • Chris lancashire

      Absolutely, how many does good old Nige think should be let in? 100, 1000, 100,000, more than 100,000? I think we should be told.

      • Daniel Maris

        100. It’s politics.

  • Tom Tom

    Surely Britain will only take in its “freedomn frighter friends” of Al-Nusra and reward them for beheading Christians ? Forced Conversions to Islam are surely in tune with Hague’s FO ?

  • Newcombe

    Here’s the deal, for every thousand Syrian Muslim refugees accepted on a permanet basis by the neighbouring and the wider circle of Muslim countries, we’ll (i.e. the entire EU) will accept one and for every one Syrian Christian accepted by the Muslim world, we’ll accept the entire lot.

    Nigel Farrage is playing politics, just shows how bad things have become in this country that the guy who has less of a chance of winning a single seat at the next general election than a baboon, has been conditioned to out-leftie a leftie in order to ingratiate his enemies – the lefites!

    BTW, can you tell me how many Palestinian “refugees” have been accepted by any Muslim country and granted citizenship of that country, please?

    This country is staring into oblivion.

  • Robert Taggart

    IDIOT – NPF – there goes the UKIP BNP defectors votes !

    • Two Bob

      Idiot for making Cameron look weak? Ok….. only the braindead swivel eyed loons will fail to engage in some lateral thinking.

      • HookesLaw

        You are demented if you think that. All this shows is that Farage has about as many principles as Miliband.
        The refugees are in camps. Taking a few will not help the plight of the many. Conditions in the camps need improving.
        You could argue we could offer speciaist medical help, as with the little girl shot in the head by taliban

        • Daniel Maris

          No, it shows he is a proper politician. Just as Churchill, , Bevan, Powell and others before him were. Bevan made a deal with the doctors that was less than what he wanted. Churchill trimmed all the time. Powell became anti-immigration after helping recruit immigrants to the UK from overseas.

          Farage is covering his flank. Good on him.

          • Makroon

            When is he going to “cover his flank” on the greenyloonery that you love, so that you can vote for him ?

            • Daniel Maris

              Makroon –

              You are mistaking disinterested observation for partisan comment.

              I have my own political views which certainly don’t coincide with Farage’s. But one has to take either a long view or a short view when it comes to voting and choosing between candidates. I think I decided a few weeks ago I couldn’t face my children and say “I voted for mass immigration in 2015” knowing what damage it is doing to my country (=where I happen to live).

              UKIP appear to be the only non-totalitarian party that oppose mass immigration. I guess they are going to get my vote.

              I’d love to vote for a non-racist/pro-Green energy/anti mass immigration party but I don’t think there’s one around.

    • anyfool

      When the BNP imploded, almost all their previous council seats reverted to Labour.

  • David Webb

    Ed, clearly you want to emphasise that you are in the Westminster loop – and you didn’t really mean anything you wrote in your immigration book. Thank God I didn’t buy it – all you journalists are the same really. Too bothered about racism and multiculturalism. Look – we don’t owe Syrians anything. It’s their problem. Let them go to nearby countries. We’ve already done more than enough for the world. Maybe they can go to China and India for asylum? Those countries have not done “their bit”.

    • Tom Tom

      North London is probably ‘culturally diverse’ insofar as the moneyed
      classes rub shoulders with the BBC/Sky/ITV/Guardian class-warriors and
      keep Saturday rather than Friday observance

      • telemachus

        That is one of the most heinous statements I have seen on this blog and you should rewrite thru the edit function

      • Shorne

        So the Spectator tolerates anti-Semitism now?

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Not all bad, then!

          • Shorne

            Thanks for confirming what I said.

    • HookesLaw

      The odious dictator Assad is still only in power because of one thing; the opportunity for Democracy is being denied the people of Syria because of one thing.
      The cheap political opportunism of Ed Miliband – a man who when push came to shove supported Vladimir Putin.

  • rhys

    If Syrians – why not South Sudanese ?
    Congolese? Central African Republicans ?
    Chadians? Nigerian Christians ?
    And so on and on and on forever, until the UK’s population is not 60million ( if indeed it is that low ) but 160 million ? And then double that ?
    From Africa and Asia and other locations around the world there are at minimum a billion people – mostly economic but some potentially political, refugees – who would come to the UK tomorrow if allowed ( I have worked in Africa – I know what I am talking about ).
    And in fact the ones who get to the UK under their own steam, even the people who cram into the death trap boats from N Africa, are far from being the most impoverished citizens of those benighted countries and territories. [ So if we allow the comparatively well-off – why is our duty to the even worse off any less? Logically if we allow in any who can touch base in the UK then we should send the Royal Navy to evacuate half the planet. ]

    It doesn’t even HELP Syria ( and the others ) to take their best educated people.
    There is plenty of empty space in the Egyptian desert or elsewhere for the UN to set up temporary refugee camps, the cost of which by all means the UK should contribute to proportionate to its wealth. Similarly for the other conflicts.
    ‘Taking in’ refugees is sloppy, illogical, thinking. Pretending it will be ‘temporary’ is dishonest and / or stupid.

    My suggestion is hardly ideal, but neither is continuing to turn the UK into a third world country in terms of over-population , impoverishment, and inter-factional conflict. I thought Nigel F had more sense.

    PS: the Christians are going to house them ?
    How many ‘refugees’ / ‘aylum seekers’ et al are at this moment living in the grounds of the Bishops’ palaces ? If the answer is ‘not one’ why would that change in the future ??

    • Ricky Strong

      I think we both know this has nothing to do with ‘helping’ refugees. It is pure politics and point scoring.

      • Robert Taggart

        NPF / UKIP just lost some points !

      • Tom Tom

        I want Russia in the EU before China joins

        • Jim Baden

          If Russia were in the EU you wouldn’t be having half the problems of being taken for a ride.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Well I want China in before Zimbabwe joins.

          • Daniel Maris

            Ah, so I was right – you’re a Chicoms fan. 🙂

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Is that what the voices up in your head are telling you, lad?

    • Daniel Maris

      Don’t be naive. Farage is seeking political advantage with these remarks. Don’t take them too seriously.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Spoken like a true socialist nutter.

  • DBarry

    I think Nigel Farage is just trying to avoid an obvious trap.

    However, becoming a refugee doesn’t automatically put one in a state of virtue; the background needs to be examined. As many have already pointed out, there are serious integration issues here and there are many other countries which might be better suited to the task.

    Furthermore, if we hadn’t already accepted so many immigrants, it would be less of an issue. The overflow tank is full, regardless of the need.

  • Jim Baden

    Did the French really not return home for forty years?
    I find the “impossible to return” a defeatist attitude that denies both other current refugees, and history. Admittedly easier to return home from a camp next door, but nevertheless.

    • Rainsboro

      Protestants in France were given a very hard time from about 1681 right up until 1715 when Louis XIV died – murder, repression, persecution etc. The aim of the French government was to get the to convert or emigrate. Even after 1715 they were second class citizens. However, the relevant point is tat they were a classic example of genuinely valuable immigrants, skilled, largely middle class and eager to integrate. Also there was no question of them feeling any loyalty to the country they had left or wanting us to fit in with their values.

      We should concentrate on letting in Syrian Christians – there are plenty of Sunni and Shi-ite states nearby which can shelter their co-religionists, the Christians have nowhere to go, except Israel, which doesn’t get anything ;like the credit it deserves as the only tolerant state in the whole ME cesspit

      • Wilhelm

        Israel doesn’t want the Christians, it’s a jewish state.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc77RzGRdIw

        • tastemylogos

          No more a Jewish State than the UK is an Anglican one

          As long as one aint going to go over there and call for its destruction or blow up a school, they are welcomed. Christians don’t really have a history of doing so (George Habash aside).

          No amount of David Duke Judaeophobic crap changes that. Now run along to your fuhrer.

          • Wilhelm

            Groan.

            • tastemylogos

              You’re very good at sensing peoples’ response to your idiotic postings.

              LOOK! LOOK! LOOK WHAT DAVID DUKE HAS GOT TO SAY!! HE KNOWS EVERYTHING DOES DAVID DUKE! LOOK! LOOK! LOOK! Think for yourself, man. and no, that doesnt mean, believe what our institutions have got to say. There is a middle ground. When you’ve found it let me know.

              • Wilhelm

                Do you feel better after that demented rant ?

                • Daniel Maris

                  Has David Duke got any hair left? He must be about 85.

                • Wilhelm

                  Hmm, name calling Duke to deflect from the subject matter, nicely done Maris.

                • Daniel Maris

                  I know – good ol’ Goebbels never did any name callin’ did he?

                  HIs hair I accept is pretty irrelevant (though clearly he set great store by it in the past) but I think it IS relevant that some poor kid dragged around the globe by his uncaring, selfish parents should end up seeking identity in simplistic Aryanist ideology.

                • Daniel Maris

                  “As the son of an engineer for Shell Oil, Duke frequently moved with his
                  family around the world.” – obviously a rootless cosmopolitan.

        • tastemylogos

          Aaaaah. Now you edit your post. Coward.

      • saffrin

        Israel, tolerant, are you mad?
        Israel is the root cause of ALL middle eastern/muslim conflicts around the World.
        The only way to stop the wars is for Israel to disappear from our maps.
        Let the jews ask for forgiveness then beg for Palestinian citizenship if they feel the need to live near Jerusalem.

        • Rainsboro

          Yes, how could I not have noticed the way Jews stir things up in Southern Thailand, force Pakistanis to kill Ahmadis and set Sunni against Shi-ite when they’d never ad a cross word before Israel was created.

          And when you talk about ‘our maps’ – I’d hazard a guess the ones you consult still have ‘Reich Protectorate of Bohemia’ and ‘Ostland’ written on them in big black Gothic letters

  • Marcus

    Yes, but refugees should be divided up between EU countries, nato and UN. The fact they’re not shows how ineffectual and incompassionate these organisations are.

    • crosscop

      Refugees are supposed to claim asylum in the first safe country they arrive in. For Syrians, that is not the UK. That said – if there’s a chance we could swap a million members of our Muslim community for a million Syrian Christians, I think we would be foolish not to at least consider making the swap.

      • ilpugliese

        I don’t think that option is on offer.

  • MikeF

    “Nigel Farage has appeared to out-leftie the three main parties”…
    No – there is nothing ‘left-wing’ about providing asylum for genuine victims of political repression. It is a fine, well-established, British tradition entirely in keeping with the tolerance and basic human decency that characterise the type of society that the left with their sectarianism and nasty authoritarian narcissist ‘zero tolerance’ mindset seek to destroy.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      The Left also wants to destroy any concept of temporary refugee status, so that their immigrant client base remains a client base. If their client base was subject to deportation, that would be a problem for them.

      So temporary refugee status is a battle line, which the Left has drawn out beyond their real immigrant client base. The ECHR serves their purpose here.

      • Daniel Maris

        You’re rambling. Most refugees in the UK long ago became citizens, so your surmise is irrelevant.

        The ECHR interprets the treaty-based legislation. The ECHR is not a bad institution in my book. They declared (correctly) that Sharia law was incompatible with human rights. It’s not their fault that our political
        elites conspire to obscure that judgement.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          I have no idea why it is you plastered this rant after my post, lad. It’s got nothing to do with my post.

          You need to stop listening to the weird voices up in your head.

      • 21stcnow

        And the Right client base is? The irrationally greed obsessed? The selfish? The meanspirited?The Alf Garnets in Britain? Those that profess to be Christians but do not possess an ounce of love in their being. Good thing the Right is always beaten intellectually and politically.

  • Two Bob

    Cant you see what NF is trying to do? He is trying to destabalise Cameron and make him look weak.

    • Faceless Bureaucrat

      It’s not Farage’s finger that is causing Cameron and his Lib Dem loving ‘light blue’ elite so much trouble, it is Farage’s mind…

      • Two Bob

        It was just an analogy!

        • ymbhweorfnes

          A very good one at that.

          Better than that Soubry woman.

    • Chris lancashire

      Thanks for that. It’s the first time that I’ve appreciated that good old Nige shares his initials with the National Front.

  • Makroon

    Fraser Nelson’s “other voices” campaign is fair enough, but when Ed West just parrots a previous blog-post, what is the point ?
    No ! Farage is NOT “right”.

  • Ricky Strong

    Just for once, instead of looking outwards could we just look inward and focus on our own country first. Soon enough we won’t be in a position to help everyone else, and when things really do worsen who will help us?

    • telemachus

      Absolutely Ricky

      Why should we help?

      We are already giving these damn pesky Syrians £500 in humanitarian aid, more than the rest of the EU combined

      The world wants too much of us

      We have enough trouble putting up with the Muslims of Birmingham (22%), Blackburn(27%), Bradford (25%), Leicester (19%), London (12%), Luton (25%), Manchester (16%), Slough (23%) and lesser scatterings elsewhere

      Mind you they have done us all a favour

      They have has put faith on the map. Awoken Christians to be better Christians and to have public faith. Here we openly celebrate Christmas, not some bewildering Winterfest

      • tastemylogos

        When are you emigrating to Iran? I forget.

        • telemachus

          Now you are getting into the Sunni Shia divide
          And THAT is dangerous

          • tastemylogos

            Whilst militantism is new to the great nation of Iran and the Shia population, Iran today and Sunnism are both dangerous. Yes.

            You’d enjoy Iran, whilst its people will disagree, its institutions are nearly as resentful and hating of the west as you are.

            • telemachus

              I do not hate you old boy
              I pity you

              • tastemylogos

                hate me? Are you paranoid, because I’m sure I refrained from suggesting you did.

                You pity any Anglosphere centred culture. I know. That’s why I asked when you were leaving.

                • telemachus

                  My country even benefits from the small minded like you
                  My party has always been a broad church
                  We tolerate and reeducate all types

                • tastemylogos

                  Naaa, the church of National Socialism never did much for my gut. Though, the Ayatollahs will treat you well.

                  So, when you off?

                • telemachus

                  There is nothing impressive about regimentation
                  What we all seek however is acceptance of the rights of all and caring for the vulnerable

                • tastemylogos

                  haha. course you do.

                • Rainsboro

                  Yep, anti-semites, totalitarians, religious bigots, homophobes, misogynists – as long as they vote for us nothing else matters

                • keith

                  don’t worry about Telemachus he believes in equality, its just he knows he is superior than everyone else

                • telemachus

                  No human is superior
                  But those who use the economic levers to apportion resources to themselves need to accept the message

                • 21stcnow

                  “Anglosphere centred culture “. You sound like Himmler searching for the origins of his master race

                • tastemylogos

                  Not really. He wasn’t too keen on the Anglosphere.

        • 21stcnow

          When are you emigrating to North Korea?

      • Ricky Strong

        I was alluding to rationality, I would prefer for you to leave faith out of the conversation.

        • telemachus

          Absolutely agree old boy
          Let’s stick to johnny foreigner in general sucking the lifeblood out of us all

          • Ricky Strong

            What on earth are you talking about?

            Muslims and Johnny foreigners? Sucking the lifeblood?

            I thought I was talking about putting oneself first before attempting to help others. Our country is still suffering from the recession, we are £900B+ in debt and growing. If we do not fix this we will be in no position to help those in need (including our own citizens) in the future. Money flows out of this country like water and yet trickles back down to those who pump it into the economy.

            • telemachus

              You are oh so wrong
              To succeed one has to strive in all directions
              To do as you describe is to turn inward
              Societies that purely look after themselves become first self serving introspective nonentities that the world ignores
              And then they collapse
              The Great in Great Britain came about because of our acceptance over two millennia of immigrants refugees and invaders
              Our great mongrel nation has never been one to turn its back on the plight of those in trouble on far away shores
              We must not be little englanders

              • Ricky Strong

                I have no doubt this will make you sick, but I prefer the inconvenient truths of Machiavelli than this utopian dream you speak of.

                Indeed we must not shut our boarders and give the world a resounding FU, but much like the saturated soil throughout the country this winter, we cannot cope with any more rain.

                • telemachus

                  We are inventive and will never be saturated
                  The OECD forecasts of our assumption of economic dominance are predicated on our expanding population

                • Jim Baden

                  “The Great in Great Britain came about because of our acceptance over two millennia of immigrants refugees and invaders”

                  People are made Great when they bend over and take it?

                  are you kidding……..

                  The Great came about because they ruled the oceans of the world by sail; stared down the Spanish Armada etc. Stared down Hitler, against the odds.

                • telemachus

                  Undoubtedly
                  Please forget your little england agenda
                  Thevwaybthings are going dominance of Europe is guaranteed

                • 21stcnow

                  Well its coming anyway. Or are you going to stop it raining?

                • Ricky Strong

                  Obviously not, but I would just like to know from people like telemachus how many people they believe this island can hold. 100m? 200m? 1B?

                  I read and hear so many arguments about immigration and so few of them focus on basic numbers.

                • Rainsboro

                  Save yourself the effort. You will never get an answer out of pro mass immigration fanatics about numbers, They want to see the country’s culture extinguished and the indigenous population subjugated, so the true answer is ‘However many it takes’

            • 21stcnow

              Whats the betting Ricky calls himself a Christian?

              • telemachus

                See the Free Dictionary

                Christian: Showing a loving concern for others; humane

                I therefore think not 21

                • Ricky Strong

                  No Telemachus, that is called compassion. I think Galileo may beg to differ on your ‘free dictionary’ interpretation of Christianity. Indeed, it would seem your pope is causing such a ruckus in the Vatican for being too compassionate and not Christian enough.

                • telemachus

                  Not my Pope son
                  The Papists amass wealth just as the Cameroons

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            “johnny foreigner”
            Spoken like a true racist and cultural imperialist. Thought it was only Jock McNutter that used the term “johnny foreigner”, but I`ve long thought that insanity is contagious.

            • telemachus

              Not big on irony then?

              • Jackthesmilingblack

                Identifying with the underdog.
                Did that notion slip by you? As a ROM humourless rube it`s hardly surprising.

                • George Smiley

                  Being, in England, the English people.

                  I put it to you that you cynically and self-servingly hate the the English people, because you, being a Japanese, were sent to a boarding school in Oxfordshire, where you were bullied on account of your alienage (because you were a foreigner). Am I correct?

            • Sipu

              Anybody who calls himself Jackthesmilingblack, whether ironically or otherwise, has no high ground from which to preach about racism.

              • Jackthesmilingblack

                I just hint I`m black to make myself more popular.

            • George Smiley

              Stop trolling British sites with your Autistic diarrhea, my Japanese boy!

              • Jackthesmilingblack

                Jonathan MacDonald, you`re a lying piece of $hit, what are you.

                • George Smiley

                  Stop trolling and talk to your own kind!

                • Jackthesmilingblack

                  And you`re still a lying piece of $hit.

                • George Smiley

                  You were born in Japan, and you now live in Japan. There is not a single bone in you that is British, never mind English. Stop trolling, and kindly get off!

          • 21stcnow

            Biy like Brits did eh Telemachus through the British Empire. Or they invited into their countries right?

            • telemachus

              History is history
              Values change
              We must look at politics to take things forward

      • Snecma

        telemachus, are you sure its Christmas you celebrate, or possibly Yom Kippur or something like that?

  • RavenRandom

    No. There are more than twenty Arab countries, some of them very rich, let them deal with it.
    I have no desire to import more potential al Qaeda sympathisers into our overcrowded culturally stressed nation.

    • starfish

      So let me get this straight. Muslims who refuse to integrate and bring their bloody feuds here should be more welcome than Christians who want no part in those feuds and are actively persecuted in muslim countries where they are a minority?

      • Jim Baden

        If you didn’t then you’d be called racist or xenophobic, albeit that those two words have nothing to do with religion. 80% of the world’s persecuted are Christian, but you wouldn’t know it because they aren’t the people with either their foot in your door, or those that the rights lobbyists are in your ear about.

        • ilpugliese

          Source of 80% please.

          • Jim Baden

            It is reported as between 75 and 85% depending on source; a UK Catholic study, Pew research studies confirm the clear majority. There were recent house of Lords discussions, and now Prince Charles’ own considerations and alarm – I’m quite heartened by him for it.

            • ilpugliese

              I can’t see the numbers anywhere. I’m sure there is persecution, but most of it seems to be within Islamic sub-groups or interdenominational. A lot of people are forced or feel obliged to adopt the religion of the community. That is unfortunate, but not something that other countries can help with.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …you may want to consider China, and its persecution of Christians. That’d likely far outnumber that of the islamofascist world, simply because the islamofascists have previously destroyed much of the Christian presence, while in China it’s growing underground, even if persecuted .

                • tastemylogos

                  I think there is a difference, however subtle, between persecution and discrimination. In China, Christians are not rounded up and shot or blown up in their churches in the way they are by the barbarian Arabs and Pakistanis.

                • 21stcnow

                  And what are Christians doing in Central Africa today? Going forth with roses. Some people. Some prejudices. Disgusting

                • tastemylogos

                  It is isnteesting that when islamic persecution of minorities is pointed out, people like you will retort, ‘WHAT ABOUT THEM’ as if, isolated incidents prove some sort of rule. Pathetic. You’re clutching at straws fella.

                • 21stcnow

                  And Christians never persecuted Chinese? You need to study history my friend. You are talking tosh.

                • pp22pp

                  Do you know any ancient languages? Learning them is fun and then you can read original sources. Even modern languages can be fascinating. Try the writing of the first Portuguese explorers. Procopius is great.. Suetonius is great. When you can read and enjoy sources in the original instead of history books written by ‘professional’ historians with an axe to grind. If you are a white of Christian heritage, you might even free yourself from the shackles of self-hatred and learn to take pride in your heritage.

                  I used to be a lecturer in Ancient languages and there is SOOO much in Chinese and Japanese that has not been translated.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …nowhere near the degree the Chicoms are persecuting Christians today, lad, which was the discussion point we were having before you blundered along.

          • starfish
        • 21stcnow

          What goes around comes around seems the way of things. What were Christians doing in the Crusades? Going forth with Love?

          • Bandmomma

            Oh for God’s sakes! It’s been a thousand years

          • PAUL WESTON

            The Crusades were not about conquering Muslim territory. They were simply attempts to take back Christian lands conquered by Islam. This is a matter of historical fact – to the educated.

          • Jim Baden

            They were emancipating Israel and restoring access to the holy places for Christians, trying to limit the takeover of Islam. What goes around seems to be coming around all over again.

      • ilpugliese

        Presumably you read what RavenRandom wrote and yet you referred to something completely different? Also, how do you know what these particular Christians want?

        • starfish

          Hmm
          I read exactly what he wrote – and he was referring to an article that advocated preferential treatment for Syrian Christians
          I fail to see how Syrian Christians would be potential Al Quaida sympathisers

          • ilpugliese

            Thanks for the reference, although I could not find the article in the IHSR website.

            I did not get the impression that was the main point of the article. I don’t see why they would be such sympathisers either. The issue would be the potential transfer of foreign conflicts to this country.

      • 21stcnow

        Bit rich given the 1600 years of appalling Christian persecution

        • starfish

          Ah, the “they did it to us so it is alright for us to do it to them” excuse
          Very statesmanlike

    • London Calling

      Farage is right and so are you Raven…………let

      • London Calling

        ..Let in the Christians though…………..

        • London Calling

          and the Muslims……….:)

      • 21stcnow

        Farage should make every Kipper house a Syrian to prove none of them are closet racists. Now that would be fun

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