Coffee House

David Cameron: Miliband’s Labour poses the same old danger

12 November 2013

12:42 PM

12 November 2013

12:42 PM

David Cameron’s speech at the Lord Mayor’s banquet yesterday evening rehearsed some basic political arguments that will be honed between now and 2015. Cameron made a decent assault on Labour over the cost of living:

‘There are some people who seem to think that the way you reduce the cost of living in this country is for the state to spend more and more taxpayers’ money….At a time when family budgets are tight, it is really worth remembering that this spending comes out of the pockets of the same taxpayers whose living standards we want to see improve.’

The logical corollary of that statement is pretty obvious: smaller government and tax cuts are the solution to the cost of living crisis. Whether the government can actually cut taxes in time for the election remains to be seen; it is borrowing £3,200 a second because it has not cut state spending sufficiently. That fact provides one explanation for why Cameron happily concedes that the recovery is fragile, which in turn allows him to argue that One Nation Labour poses the same old danger. He said:

‘The single biggest threat to the cost of living in this country is if our budget deficit and debts get out of control again. If interest rates and mortgage rates start to soar, the increase in cost of living will far outweigh the impact of any increase in government spending or indeed reduction in taxation.’

The Liberal Democrats are conspicuously absent from Cameron’s account; but one can see where he might go in 2015: the Lib Dems would not let us go far enough on the economy; vote Conservative for a prosperous future. Of course, the risk of attacking the Lib Dems is that it might drive the party’s base away from Nick Clegg and into the arms of a Miliband sympathiser or to Miliband himself. In that event, with the electoral maths as they are, Cameron will surely lose Downing Street. But it might be a risk that he has to take if he is to convince undecided voters to back him and to negate criticism from the wavering right that he prefers coalition.

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Show comments
  • fathomwest

    Poppies, like medals and medal ribbons should be worn by men on the left.
    Poppies on women should be worn on the right.
    Perhaps Common Purpose demand their male members to be different.

  • Daniel Maris

    The Lord Mayor’s Banquet is such a tribal affair wouldn’t it be better if they went the whole hog, with the ladies stripping down to grass skirts shaking their booties and boobies and the men shaking spears? The whole thing makes me want to vomit.

  • Smithersjones2013

    There is a touch of surreality (and a healthy serving of denial) about such unaware Coffee House posts

    Of course, the risk of attacking the Lib Dems is that it might drive
    the party’s base away from Nick Clegg and into the arms of a Miliband
    sympathiser or to Miliband himself.

    Too little too late. Cameron should have thought about that in 2010 as by getting into bed with Clegg he drove half the latter’s support into the arms of the Labour party by the end of conference season. That one act has defined the 2015 general election. Beyond that you can guarantee anywhere where the Libdems are not targetting that the word will go out to vote Labour to stop the Tories in the usual tactical voting strategy.

    Cameron and the Tories are toast. They just won’t accept it. Cameron had his chance and he blew it

    • the viceroy’s gin

      It is sad to think about. Anybody with the slightest bit of political nous could have seen this day coming, long ago. Dave is just a clueless muppet. The mistake was ever giving such a numpty any responsibility in the first place. It’s now just a lost decade.

    • HookesLaw

      Polls show that labour are losing those voters. The LDs lost face and voters by voting for the cap on tuition fees, despite theior silly signed pledge to the opposite, which the coalition agreement specifically allowed them to abstain on.

    • Daniel Maris

      I don’t think he had his chance. He didn’t create his chance. The only chance the Tories ever have is as a populist party that actually delivers something to people whether it’s franchise under Disraeli, prosperity under MacMillan, your own house under Thatcher etc

      What has he offered the mass of people before or after 2010? F All.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …windmills. He’s offered them plenty of windmills.

        Oh, and the bills for that greenie madness as well.

  • monty61

    Old Labour, Old Danger? Yup that’ll work. Wait a minute haven’t we heard this one before?

  • Greenslime

    The Tories should superimpose an image of M. Francois Hollande on every image they show of Moribund or Ballsup. They should then invite the electorate to inspect what happens when the state is run on a dirigiste agenda.

    The fact that any sane person would consider allowing these two clowns (or virtually any of their merry band of acolytes) back into the tent is beyond me. But I suppose it is best explained by that silly woman on one of those Newsnight street-polls who didn’t know who Moribund was but was prepared to vote for him because he was going to give her money. Says it all really. Labour is like a Hollywood swimming pool, shallow at both ends – but they are prepared to buy your vote!

    That is what Brown created – a client electorate. That is where they would take us back to in the blink of an eye.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …don’t look now, but the Camerluvvies have bolstered that client state, attempting to make it their own.

    • DWWolds

      And Obama too if Irwin Stelzer in his column in last weekend’s Sunday Times is correct. Apparently, Foreign Direct Investment in the States dropped by 28% last year in a large part because of Obama’s socialist policies.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        As bad as Obama might be, he’s more conservative than Call Me Dave and the Camerluvvies, who are pure socialists and acting out unhindered.

  • L’Arse

    Has there ever been a housing boom which hasn’t resulted in a rise in interest rates?

    Maybe Dave knows something that we don’t (though I doubt it… ).

    • the viceroy’s gin

      The muppet knows absolutely nothing about economics. It’s amusing that he’s calling out others for that very thing.

  • swatnan

    I’m thinking of bring out a T-shirt emlazoned with ‘ I’m proud to pay my taxes … are you?’ We shouldn’t be apologising for taxing citizens. Because thats how Civil Society is run. And I can criticise Govt when they are not spending my taxes on worthwhile projects, but wasting it on say Trident. Of course there are a lot of people avoiding paying taxes like Phillip Green and Corporations like Google.

    • Colonel Mustard
    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Have you ever had an ISA? That is an example of tax avoidance and it is perfectly reasonable under British law to minimise the amount of tax that you pay. I fear that if you take up your T-shirt idea you will sell very few and invite a great deal of ridicule. Most people who work hard for their money, whilst willing to pay a reasonable amount of tax for essential services like health education and defence, maintain this curious belief that they are better at spending their own money than the government. This might have something to do with the fact that the last government bequeathed a £180 billion structural deficit to the people of Britain which, if we are fortunate, will cleared in a mere decade or two. On that basis, I think British taxpayers have a point. Can I suggest that you try selling sand to Libyans as I think it has more chance of success than the business venture you propose currently.

      • HookesLaw

        The ISA is the govt urging you to avoid tax because it wants you to save. Perfectly legitimate.

        I guess its open to debate just how big the structural deficit is. In 2010 I believe that the tories thought it was £90 billion, but I cannot remember exactly, and that is what they wanted to eliminate. Some of the deficit inherited is cyclical.
        What is clear is that a year back the IMF said that the structural deficit was bigger than thought in 2007 at £73 billion, some £38 billion bigger than it thought.
        This means that in 2007 Brown was spending every year £73 billion more than he could raise in taxes.
        America’s structural deficit in 2007 was 3.3pc, France’s was 3pc and Germany’s
        1.1pc. Ours under Brown — 5.3%
        The recession wiped 7% off the productive capacity of the economy which increased the structural deficit at a stroke.

    • Greenslime

      Good for you! Aren’t you just soooo smug!

      Of course, not everyone agrees with you on everything you think, you know. It must be painful for you, but some people might think that Trident is not a complete waste of money – the deterrent was part of what stopped the USSR from attacking us. Giving every wrinkly a winter heating allowance whether they need it or not, is a waste of money, in my humble opinion.

      Then Green might avoid taxes by employing legal means – he hasn’t been arrested so we should safely assume that he has done it through legal means. This is a problem which governments of all hues have never got to grips with but it feels that we might be getting to a tipping point on this now and things may shortly change. In the meantime, do not forget about the other side of the coin; the income tax and NI the thousands of employees pay, the VAT the customers pay, and the £45m Debenhams paid last year from the £150m profit it made. Sure, it probably used standard accounting procedures to reduce this, but that is for governments to change the rules, not for the company to arbitrarily alter on a whim – shareholders might soon have the board in court if it tried that one.

      Google is an American company which has based its European business out of Ireland. See comments above re the tax rules.

  • drydamol1

    BROKEN BRITISH POLITICS –ENERGY THE TAIL WAGGING THE DOG

    Well between the Energy Cartel and Governments Lies we
    have a clearer picture today to some extent .EDF have said they will only hike
    their prices by 3.9% if the Government reduce the element of Green Levies
    within the overall price significantly rather than making the usual token
    gesture .

    A week ago the Government denied the Green Element
    amounted to basically anything or an organised Cartel existed but it seems the
    tail EDF are wagging the dog Government .

    Which only goes to prove that Governments have less Power
    than they would have us believe . The IMF and World Bank forced everyone with a
    Loan or wanting one to sell off all their utility systems to Private companies
    or suffer economic death .So in fact the shower of BS in Parliament are Governed
    by the IMF and World Bank through corrupt cartels ,is it any wonder they take
    it out of us they have become nobodies .

    The Energy Minister Ed Davey on his website informed all
    and sundry that “In addition to posing safety and environmental risks,nuclear
    power will only be possible with vast taxpayer subsidies or a rigged market”
    now he is a ‘Minister’ that has been taken down and his opinion altered to suit
    .BSB

    http://brokenbritishpolitics.simplesite.com

  • George_Arseborne

    We have been hearing this long ago. So surprise by the heading which is utterly no dividing line. It is a non story.

    • Colonel Mustard

      It goes away, it comes back. It goes away, it comes back.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq7DGvfnr3U

    • Neotelemachus

      Welcome back Idiot #4 (or it it 5, I forget?). Your absence has not improved your English, or reasoning, I see.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        #5 but he answers to either.

  • Chris lancashire

    Cameron is, of course, absolutely right. Labour, back in power, would revert to type increasing taxation and spending regardless of the deficit which would lead us back in to the penury we are only just recovering from. Labour have learnt nothing and remember nothing from their recklessly stupid mishandling of the economy.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Agreed. Miliband has realised that it is easier to sell an instant, painless though impracticable solution to a public that is largely ignorant of economic realities, than it is to sell a dull, imperceptibly gradual but practical solution. Miliband is an obvious charlatan as his absurd ‘price freezing’ and ‘living wage’ promises amply demonstrate. He knows however that most people have an insufficient command of economics to challenge his nonsense and after years of perceived austerity do not even inclined to try.

      • telemachus

        Look Chuz
        There is a war
        The Tories must not win
        They are trying to balance the books by robbing the poor and disabled and forcing the unfortunate out of their homes while escalating the inequalities in education and wrecking the Health Service(If you do not believe me go to your local A&E with a bleeding finger and see how long it is before the bleeding is staunched and you get your tetanus injection
        Labour will restore fairness and at the same time ensure adequate investment in infrastructure which Osborne choked off
        A few soundbite policies are a good tactic in this war
        *
        I hope you get seen before lockjaw sets in

        • Neotelemachus

          Better lockjaw than the affliction you have Idiot #1. You are a failure of the NHS mental health treatment and need to keep taking the tablets. Nurse!

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          Idiot #1 right on cue with his tripe and nonsense. That would be the same NHS that wrecker Brown was planning to make efficiency savings of £20 billion I assume. Now where was he planning to make those cuts idiot#1?

          • telemachus

            Interruption of some investment plans and efficiency savings. The latter would be achieved by seamless heath/social care transition instead of the Tory inspired competition between health and social services and between heath providers
            *
            If we totally abolished the valueless purchaser provider split we would save a full 6.87% of the health service budget.

            • Neotelemachus

              Answer this Idiot #1; have you ever had an original thought (apart from that PhD thesis at Oxford you no longer talk about)? Or do you just cut and paste from Labtard HQ’s disinformation data your team is issued with? How’s the milk round by the way? I take semi -skimmed.

              • telemachus

                Son
                The above is not copied but gleaned from Andy’s forward thinking plans
                Since you ask I got my Doctorate marching in front of Boothby’s Cuckold in the Sheldonian which gives you an idea of my vintage
                And my business is thriving thankyou
                And I pay my taxes
                And am glad to do so

                • Neotelemachus

                  Doctorate marching in front of Supermac in the Sheldonian? Bollocks Idiot #1. Lie after lie after lie.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              And that is the best briefing Labour HQ can manage! Hilarious. Kindly stop polluting this and other threads with your misinformation and utter tripe. Go away. Just go away.

              • telemachus

                I will if you and your mates will

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Your buddy Dave the socialist has increased taxation and spending, and piled on bales of fresh debt. That’s what LibLabCon does.

      It’s hypocrisy for the Camerluvvies to point at others for doing what they themselves are doing. This hypocrisy is the prime reason Call Me Dave’s head will be mounted on a spike, in 18 months time.

      • DWWolds

        You need to look up the concept of accruals. If you do you will find that the blame for the major part of the increase in debt since 2010 can still be laid at the feet of the annual deficit left by Brown. Even with the reduction in the annual figure achieved by the current government, the accumulated deficits plus the interest on the money to pay for them has added close to £500bn to our national debt,.

        • Chris lancashire

          It really isn’t worth the effort: rationale is beaten every time by blind prejudice.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          The Camerluvvies photocopied Darling’s budget, even as they lied about “austerity”.

          Then, when the IMF socialists commented that the lied-about “austerity” didn’t include enough spending, the Camerluvvies increased spending.

          No need to blame anybody else for Camerluvvie socialism, lad. They believe in it fully, much like all the LibLabCon socialists.

          • DWWolds

            Apart from all the other nonsense you prout, I am not a “lad”. I might just answer to “lass”.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Answer to whatever you want, lad. Apparently, you’re going to try to explain away Camerluvvie socialism in any gender.

              • DWWolds

                Obviously you do not realise what a sad little man you are. You seem to share the same personality profile as Gordon Brown and, like him, display all the negative aspects of it.

                You really should get out more instead of spending all your time at your computer venting so many frustrations that give a clear indication of a life that hasn’t lived up to your expectations.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, all socialists obsess on the diagnosis of others’ “problems”. It’s a common trait of you types, and you always know exactly what to do to fix those “problems”, by coercion generally.

                • DWWolds

                  When you are in a hole, stop digging you sad and obsessive little man.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Studies have shown that internet commenters who cast speculative aspersions at internet strangers are most often mirroring their own situation. That is to say, they are describing themselves. You’re doing a good job of that I suspect, lad.

                • DWWolds

                  Look in the mirror lassie. Every post you make is confirming that you share traits with Gordon Brown. And like him you are showing signs of stress. Give up or you’ll end up with a breakdown.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  As I say, studies show that those who go into detail psychoanalyzing strangers on the internet are actually psychoanalyzing themselves.

                  Have a nice day, lad.

                • DWWolds

                  Oh do give up! You are tedious beyond belief. And a silly – and probably very lonely – old man. Get out more!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  It does appear the mirroring is quite accurate, in your case.

    • Smithersjones2013

      And of course Osborne borrowing of £600 billion (more than any previous Chancellor) was an excessive act of austerity was it?

      How is that going to be paid back if not through taxation? Thats the problem with the Tories. They have gone over to the dark side and there is little difference between Tory tax and spend plans and Labour tax and spend plans.

      • Chris lancashire

        There may be little difference (although I’d beg to differ on that) but that’s your only choice come 2015. And whatever the borrowing figure, Osborne has already cut the deficit by a third. That, together with further cuts already announced and due over the next three years allied to stronger growth than anywhere else in Europe ensures that the country is on track to remove entirely the Brown-Balls-Miliband deficit.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          So, you claim the Camerluvvies have “cut the deficit by a third”?

          Would that be through the soul murdering, economy crushing and prosperity destroying tax increases that the Camerluvvie socialists have brought on?

          Why yes, I believe it would be.

          LibLabCon. One and the same.

          • Chris lancashire

            You’re not well again are you?

            • the viceroy’s gin

              If you Camerluvvies have your way, nobody will be.

        • Smithersjones2013

          Its not my choice. That’s just how it will turn out and sadly the only way to end this hegemony of indentikit politics from the establishment is to bring down leader after leader of the establishment parties until they get the message…….

          It’s a war of attrition…..

          • Chris lancashire

            It really, really isn’t going to happen. If Cameron loses the election then we wiill have 5 years of Miliband ( or Balls if he manages to stab him in the back). When they have completely mucked it up (again) they will be replaced by another Conservative or Coalition administration. The outer fringes of Right or Left will not gain power in the foreseeable future.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Yes, you LibLabCon clones do appear to hold sway, and socialism is the only certainty from you.

              So the first step in the restoration process is to isolate the socialist clones electorally, and strip them of conservative support. This will likely take place in phases. The first major step occurred in the 2nd quarter local elections. Next will come the 2014 EP elections, and finally the 2015 election. Presumably, open panic will set in during calendar year 2014, and recent actions seem to indicate that panic point is coming sooner rather than later.

              • Chris lancashire

                Jawohl mein fuhrer.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I think if you check, lad, you’ll find that you Camerluvvie socialists bear closest resemblance to your buddy Adolf.

                • Chris lancashire

                  Bestimmt!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …and you seem to communicate in the appropriate style, too.

            • Tom Tom

              You will not have 5 years of Miliband. Stop thinking on rails. The world is dynamic and Britain is not. The slide is gathering pace and QE is becoming entrenched…….the US and UK are on the skids and will embroil themselves in a war to try to keep the public on board……..you are witnessing the unravelling of the post-1945 world and returning to the 1890s

        • Tom Tom

          Cut the deficit – tripe. The economy is unbalanced and skewed towards bloated public sector and puny private sector. It is a developing economy with huge trade deficit – the second highest after the USA and that is what is causing the bubble economy as living standards fail to fall to compensate……..they keep inflating the bubble

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        We have had little choice but to borrow more in the wake of economic contraction and falling tax revenues unless, of course, you want to close down much of the NHS, Defence budget etc. the structural deficit has been reduced by a third and barring further economic upheavals should continue to decline. I agree, I would have liked to see them cut more and spend less but with the LibDems on board there was practically little choice.

        • Smithersjones2013

          I don’t accept that. Cameron’s inability to handle the Libdems properly is down to a lack of political nerve and complete lack of any political ability. He flinched every time there was a hint they might sink the coalition yet the Libdems were and are in no position to fight an election. They will be hammered badly. Cameron has allowed the Libdems to walk all over him and as a result he’s significantly damaged his party and split the centre right (whilst initiating the exodus of Libdems to Labour uniting the left). Its political ineptitude of the highest level.

          Consequently, Cameron is culpable for the level of debt incurred :Libdems or no Libdems. Basically if he couldn’t ‘manage’ them and he hasn’t he shouldn’t have got into bed with them!

          • Tom Tom

            Cameron IS a LibDem

          • DWWolds

            They both have a long way to go in the “worst” stakes to beat Brown, Blair and Wilson.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, they’re all on socialist par.

        • Tom Tom

          Really ? RBS needs enormous amounts of capital still and faces billions in fines for CMOs… JPM is headed towards $13 billion and RBS is deep in the sh’t. I think borrowing is going to explode over the coming decade as the demographics move adversely ie. burgeoning birth rate to Roma and Bangladeshis and Pakistanis doing no paid work and a baby boom retirement bulge watching pension pots implode

    • Mynydd

      Mr Cameron/Osborne increase VAT to a record 20%

      • Chris lancashire

        And your point is?

        • HookesLaw

          I think his point is that he wants to avoid thinking about the 160 billion deficit left by Brown and all the spending by Brown that was unfunded by taxes.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …spending which you Camerluvvie socialists are merrily carrying forth, as we see.

            They should have just brought in Darling, since they used his budget.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Which is what Darling wanted to do but the idiot twins Brown and Balls insisted that he increase National Insurance instead. I think their plan was to create more unemployment and thus attract more votes for the Labour Party. The reason for increasing VAT was, of course, to help reduce the £180 billion structural deficit bequeathed to the Nation by said idiots. So your point is what exactly?

        • Tom Tom

          Would have been better if Osborne had continued Darling’s policy and Cameron had not continued with Blair policies

          • Neotelemachus

            Actually, it would have been far better if all had continued Margaret Thatcher’s policies.

      • Neotelemachus

        Belgium 21%
        Croatia 25%
        Denmark 25%
        Finland 24%
        Greece 23%
        Ireland 23%
        Italy 22%
        Latvia 21%
        Lithuania 21%
        Netherlands 21%
        Poland 23%
        Portugal 23%
        Romania 24%
        Slovenia 22%
        Spain 21%
        Sweden 25%

        What’s your point Idiot #4?

        • Tom Tom

          Denmark has a huge state sector which needs financing. Spain has a huge black economy where income taxes are avoided as in most of the list above…..Britain should stop collecting income tax so the VAT rate has less impact

          • Neotelemachus

            Not sure what your point is Tom Tom. You will not find me defending high tax rates, or non-collection. I was just responding to Idiot #4’s ridiculous assertion of our record VAT rate. BTW, we also have a huge state sector that our taxes are financing but I believe the biggest, by ratio, is France’s and their highest VAT rate is 19.6%.

    • Tom Tom

      Yes they could raise VAT from 15% to 20%, put SDLT up to 3% and even impose green levies on energy. They might even pass that Equalities Act that Harman proposed and force through gay marriage. I see your point Chris, if Labour came back so much would change…..

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Now that you lay it out like that, yes, the Millipedes would probably be more conservative than the Cameroons.

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