Coffee House

Ed Davey’s energy fantasies

19 October 2013

19 October 2013

As energy prices continue to — with British Gas imposing a 9.2 per cent rise — the government is under growing pressure. The tragedy is that any genuine solution to the largely self-inflicted energy fiasco will not be considered let alone enacted any time soon – as we can tell by the recent outings of the climate change secretary Ed Davey.

The controversy about the proportion of green taxes on energy bills looks trivial compared to the tornado that is going to hit parties in coming years – as the government’s self-imposed decarbonisation targets drive energy prices up relentlessly. If the rise in wholesale gas prices is seen as a crisis, just consider the effect of an Energy Bill that will increase green energy subsidies by a factor of five — to a staggering amount of nearly £50 billion by 2020. This is precisely what’s now going through parliament.

Yet when it comes to the cost estimates, Ed Davey and other advocates of low-carbon energy promise consumers the earth: households would only be charged a pittance which would steadily decrease in years to come. Scrapping green taxes would actually increase energy bills, Nick Clegg has asserted.

A look at Germany which started the transition to green energy much earlier than Britain shows a different picture. Over the years, almost all predictions about the cost of renewable energy have turned out to be wide off the mark – at least by a factor of two, sometimes by a factor of five.

These days, Ed Davey gives very similar price assurances and makes the same predictions as his German counterparts years ago. In his interview with Andrew Marr last weekend, he claimed that most of the green energy taxes are due to policies that reduce fuel poverty:

‘One of the reasons why we’re seeing big energy price rises is the cost of wholesale gas on international markets. Now neither I, you or Ed Miliband can do anything about that. But over 50% of the gas price (fluffs) … the gas price has gone up by over 50% in the last five years and over 50% of the bill is wholesale gas prices. We’ve also seen a big increase in the network costs because you’ve got to replace ageing networks… so these are costs which are impossible to avoid but I do believe we need to do evermore to help people, particularly vulnerable people, people suffering fuel poverty.’

What he did not mention is that green subsidies to producers of non-carbon energy — notably wind power – are already adding 17 per cent to our electricity prices.

Mr Davey also claims that the coalition’s energy bill will push energy prices down rather than up. On Thursday’s Newsnight he even maintained that ‘energy bills will be lower’ because of billions in low-carbon investment. Yet even his own department estimates that subsidies for low carbon electricity generation will add an additional £95 a year to the average household energy bill by 2020.

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As for nuclear, Davey has this to say about the deal with China and France:

‘I’ve been looking at it in minute detail and we’re extremely close for a deal with EDF and if and when we get that deal I’ll announce it to parliament and I think I’ll be able to show that it’s extremely good value for money for consumers, helping people with energy bills long- term.’

Extremely good value for money for consumers? The deal  turns out to be a government guarantee that will force consumers to pay EDF a price at least double the wholesale market price for electricity – for the next 35 years.

The green minister is proud of the last few years, telling Marr:

‘We’ve seen massive investment in low carbon. The amount of renewable energy in this country has doubled since the Coalition came to power. It’s now nearly 16 per cent, that’s a huge success. That’s billions of pounds of investment.’

What he doesn’t say is that the amount families have to pay as  a result of policy-driven levies has risen ten-fold in the last ten years.

He bemoans that the gas price has gone up by over 50 per cent in the last five years and claims this to be the main reason for price rises. Yet he fails to mention that the drilling company Cuadrilla was granted a UK fracking licence back in 2007, but that his government -and the last one – have been blocking or delaying the extraction of cheap and abundant UK shale gas for more than five years.

And as for wind farms? Marr made a good point:

Andrew Marr: Can you look me in the eyes and say that our wind farms, our on-shore wind farms have been good value for money?

Ed Davey: Absolutely. What people don’t understand is they only get paid when they generate electricity.

In reality, wind farms have been paid around £30 million a year in compensation to switch off or slow down their turbines during periods when the National Grid is unable to cope with wind power produced during high winds or periods of low demand.

Clearly, the minister is making it up as he goes along. This is always a problem when all three parties are parrotting the same line: there simply is no challenge.

In reality, the coalition’s Energy Bill will inevitably lock Britain into ever higher energy prices. What is more, the bill’s whole approach is absurd.

First consumers are forced to pay ever increasing subsidies on costly wind and solar energy; secondly they are asked to subsidise nuclear energy too; thirdly, they are forced to pay another level of subsidies for the provision of inefficient back up power needed by unreliable wind and solar energy; fourthly, consumers are additionally hit by multi-billion subsidies that become necessary to upgrade the national grid; fifthly, the cost of power is made even more expensive by adding a unilateral Carbon Price Floor. Finally, because Britain has created such a foolish scheme that will cripple industries, consumers are forced to pay even more hundreds of millions in subsidising the energy-intensive sector.

Worst of all, the biggest risk posed by the Energy Bill, if enacted and implemented in its present form, would be to undermine the chances of a shale and cheap energy revolution as it would lock Britain into legally binding, 20-35 year contracts for costly nuclear and exorbitant renewable energy.

Over the last two decades, the green energy strategy was founded on two fears: first, that global warming was an urgent threat that needed to be prevented imminently and at all costs; and second, that the world was running out of fossil fuels, which meant oil and gas would become ever more expensive. Both conjectures, however, turned out to be wrong.

It is doubtful that policy makers are ready to admit that climate policy and the world’s energy outlook have changed radically and that a reassessment of outdated assumptions is now required. I’m afraid it will get worse, much worse, before it will get better.

Benny Peiser is the director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation


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Show comments
  • Power Switch

    Hello,

    This is a very good post about energy price..Yes, they spend too much time on the politics, not enough on good economics and do the wrong philosophy as well. Power Switch

  • John Graham

    Well he is right about wind farms only get paid when they are working. However he conveniently forgets the massive constraints payment when they are likely to overload the system. This is the problem with intermittency. Yes they will be capable of generating then so what he says is factually correct, just conveniently a case of dis-information. They will still get paid despite not supplying the consumer!

    • Daniel Maris

      The problems of energy intermittency are being addressed through storage and will be overcome. Fortunately the Germans and the Belgians and others aren’t put off by a technical challenge. We will look v. stupid when saddled with a £14 billion nuclear white elephant.

      • John Graham

        Living in la-la land Storage is but a pipe dream and Germany is countering problems by building coal fired power stations. Basically Germany’s energy market is a basket case. Belgium isn’t even a player

        • Daniel Maris

          Er yep, Germany already producing 25% of its electricity through renewables. Storage is not a pipe dream at all. It is already gathering pace. You are in the same position as those who claimed 20 years ago that wind energy could never compete with other energy technologies.

          Germany takes the long view. We take the short view and end up with the worst of all possible worlds.

          PS In case you haven’t noticed, Germany is the biggest energy user in the EU, its biggest manufacturer and its most successful exporter. And it is committed to a full speed ahead renewables energy programme.

      • freethinker14

        The Germans are building coal fired power stations – they have seen the light so to speak.

  • Ben Kelly

    I always picture Ben Swain from the Thick of It when Ed Davey is on TV for some reason.

  • Daniel Maris

    Summary:

    Lumpencapitalist types here like to suggest that green energy (wind turbines, solar power etc) is part of some Trotskyite plan to bring down capitalism in the UK.

    It is pointed out Germany (the biggest energy user in Europe and not exactly an example of Trotskyite excess) is pursuing a green energy programme.

    We are told that (a) the lights are going out in Germany as a result and (b) Germany has abandoned her programme of shifting to renewable energy generation, in favour of building lignite power stations.

    Further investigation reveals (a) the lights are not going out and have never gone out as a result of the green energy programme…they haven’t even gone out, full stop and (b) Mrs Merkel is fully committed to continued and rapid expansion of renewable energy.

    Only in the UK could we end up with the worst of several worlds:

    1. We are signing up to China controlling our nuclear power stations – which could be turned into dirty bombs at any time of their choosing.

    2. We have out of control energy prices.

    3. We have probably the worst insulated properties in northern Europe.

    4. We have no community benefit from wind and solar.

    5. We have no energy independence.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …but at least there are plenty of you global warmingist greenie socialist envirowhackos about, so there’s at least that.

      • Daniel Maris

        I take it as encouraging that you don’t seek to dispute the accuracy of my summary.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          You’re too ignorant and poorly educated for your envirowhacko spew to have any value, or to merit any form of “dispute”, lad.

          • global city

            even No3 is incorrect. Britain has been insulating homes for decades, especially in the ‘social’ sector.

            All of the other points are largely a consequence of green policies and a turgid reluctance to face facts for 15 years.

            • Daniel Maris

              You forgot the first rule of the Viceroy: “Never, ever commit yourself to a fact.”

              Having contravened that rule, unlike your Tea Party mate, you are in trouble:

              “The housing stock in the United Kingdom is amongst the least energy efficient in
              Europe.”

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_British_housing

              This link gives the thermal performance of our homes as sixth out of 8 in a comparison with 7 other European countries:

              http://www.ukace.org/2013/03/fact-file-the-cold-man-of-europe/

              Still, I know facts are of no interest to you (or your mate).

              • global city

                You should actually just check what you wrote. I am not saying that the UK has super fantastic insulated homes that shame the Scandinavians, but the UK is not THE worst, as you suggested.

                The whole energy situation in the UK is being warped by the green fantasy. We we were not messing round with turbines and new lines then perhaps we COULD sort out the UK’s housing stock properly.

                The problem has been caused by the sorts of agendas you have been putting on here, not the ones that I would defend.

                • Daniel Maris

                  In the survey I quoted it was THE worst of all the North European countries. If you can find another North European country that has a worst record on home insulation let me know. You are making assertions with no citations.

                  If we didn’t pursue the nuclear option, we would have £14 billion to spare for insulation.

                • global city

                  If we had not gone down the ‘Green energy’ road then all companies selling fuel would be making tons of contributions to the exchequer, rather than putting their hands out for grant aid and subsidy!

          • Daniel Maris

            Ha, ha…your irony detection has obviously fallen to North American levels.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …you shouldn’t posture as wisened or knowing, lad, about anything. You’re too ignorant and poorly educated for that.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Davey was always the worst dimwit on the Libdem frontbench (the only reason for him possibly being there was because he was Clegg’s pet poodle. He was a fool of a foreign spokesman an utter idiot. Now we can add to the alliteration of ‘Dimwit Davey’ ~ ‘Dishonest Dimwit Davey.

    Sack him and the rest of the foul malevolence that is the Libdems at the next election and take the Tories down for complicity with them!

    • global city

      He is a parrot, a useful idiot and fetishises shibboleths

  • simmo70

    BROKEN BRITISH POLITICS-CLASS SYSTEM SLOWLY REINTRODUCED

    The Class system has always been there but hidden from
    view.The Draconian measures employed by this Government through the excuse of
    Austeriy is to demean anyone receiving any kind of Welfare Benefit including
    Tax Credit and Pensions.The Bedroom Tax has proved a costly exercise but has
    reached its objective of having put more people dependent on the State and
    disrupted any stabilization of a settled home life .

    We heard about Ethnic Cleansing in places like Bosnia,but
    under the guise of saving money and the introduction of the Bedroom Tax whole
    families have been uprooted from London and been forced to move as far afield
    as the Midlands .Could this be associated with Class reallocation.

    The changes that have happed over the last few years
    steadily and steathily makes one wonder whether we are reintroducing the Class
    System especially when Third Class Rail will be introduced.

    It was last seen in Britain in 1956. While the Government
    insisted that the proposals were intended to pave the way for a class
    equivalent to premium economy on aircraft “it points to a Ryanair model with passengers
    rammed in to creaking cattle trucks with a surcharge for everything from your
    bags to using the lavatories,” said Bob Crow, leader of the RMT Transport
    Union.

    POLITICIANS PAY HEED WELFARE IS NOT A CONTRACT BETWEEN
    THE STATE & THE PEOPLE IT IS A CONTRACT BETWEEN THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES-THIS
    IS NOT YOUR WELFARE STATE TO GIVE OR TAKE .

    http://brokenbritishpolitics.simplesite.com

  • Tom Tom

    What is it about Nottingham High School ? Davey was Head Boy when Balls was a year behind him; but all of them – Balls, Davey, Clarke, Hoon have that fat complacent spread of self-satisfaction as they lie blatantly to their audience. Something in that school seems to produce charlatans who think they are so much cleverer than those around them, that they can tell blatant untruths with insouciance

  • anneallan

    And expensive energy means that even more jobs are exported overseas to countries that show common sense.

    • global city

      That will lower our carbon footprint.
      So they’re happy.

  • Bonkim

    Mistake to shut down coal fired stations that have life left in them. Their capital costs have been paid for and all they need is coal which is abundant in world markets. Givern large consumers India, china and the US are chugging ahead on coal, Britain (2% of world population) will not make much difference to global warming – but over-dependence on gas will lead to greater fuel insecurity and dependence on more unstable countries for supply apart from higher costs.

    • foxoles

      What global warming?

      • Tony_E

        But let’s put that argument aside – the point is surely that as a very small nation, there is no point in us taking unilateral steps which the Russians, Americans, Chinese and Developing Africa are refusing to impliment in any meaninful way.

        Yes we can set an example. But that kind of hign minded thinking is just handing out competitors a massive advantage while impoverishing our own working poor. How progressive is that?

        If there are effects for us, we should look at mitigation, not trying to lead a disinterested world into doing something that in reality does little for us anyway, as a rather wet northern European island.

  • roger

    The British Isles energy policy needs a total ‘clean sheet’ re-think, get the politician in charge to have a scientific education. Start thinking strategy and not profit ( or prophet).

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, it’s long past time to quit policy-making by the ignorant and poorly educated, and insert the qualified into this process.

      • Daniel Maris

        So you are seriously suggesting that everyone from Mrs Merkel down in Germany who supports their far more ambitious green energy programme is “ignorant and poorly educated”. Who communicated that to you? The fairies in your garden?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Mrs. Merkel is frantically building lignite burning power plants, lad. You best keep her out of your global warmingist envirowhacko nutter wetdreams.

          You are the type of ignorant and poorly educated nutter I’m talking about. And you yourself communicated your ignorance and poor education to us, lad.

          • Daniel Maris

            So your claim is that Mrs Merkel has abandoned the aim of moving towards an renewable energy economy and a reduction of carbon emissions by 40% compared to 1990 by 2020? Is that your claim? No of course it isn’t which is why you have had to lie by omission, which your mother should have told you is a greater sin that lying directly, since it requires more forethought.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              My statements are not a “claim”, laddie. Claims are what you ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutters make.

              The krauts are feverishly building lignite burning power plants. They’re scorning you global warmingist nutters, and building lignite burning power plants.

              You’re too ignorant and poorly educated to understand the significance of this, but those unlike you do understand it.

              • Daniel Maris

                They’re replacing nuclear with coal while they grow their green infrastructure. What’s difficult to understand about that? I would have thought that anyone without a vested interest in purposefully misrepresenting what is going on, can understand that quite easily.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  They’re building lignite burning power plants, in defiance of your global warming kookiness.

                  As I say, I’d go ahead and get Merkel out of your greenie envirowhacko wetdreams, lad. It seems she’s found other suitors .

                • Daniel Maris

                  “Germany needed security of supply, a speedy expansion of renewables and affordable energy prices, Mrs Merkel said. Hence, the government and the states would work together to implement these objectives without slowing down renewable
                  growth and mindful of the other two goals, she added.”

                  Mrs Merkel, November 2012

                  http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=11215

                  You can try and spin that as “Mrs Merkel is giving up on wind and loving the lignite.” but I think most fair-minded observers will conclude you are orbiting the planet at some remove from the surface.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I think most observers recognize you as an ignorant and poorly educated envirowhacko, lad.

                  They also recognize that Merkel is rejecting you nutters, and building lignite burning power plants, in contravention of your global warmingist nuttery.

                  It really doesn’t get much plainer than that, lad, although I’m sure most observers would recognize that your nuttery would likely preclude your understanding obvious cues like this.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Yep, your comment does look pretty pale and pathetic against the robust statement from Mrs Merkel. Still, you tried your best for the black flag of hydrocarbons. Well done.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, you global warmingist nutters do love you some “statements”, as we know.

                  The knowledgeable and properly educated generally like facts and data, like brand new lignite burning power plants starting up.

                • Daniel Maris

                  “Without slowing down renewable growth.”

                  Feel free to call Mrs Merkel a liar.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Actually, it’s best to just identify reality, that you are an ignorant and poorly educated global warmingist nutter.

                • Daniel Maris

                  So you deny she said those words? Cue silence.

                • Daniel Maris

                  …a long silence…

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Cue your ignorance and poor educational level, lad.

                  Actually, no cue required. It’s always there.

          • Bonkim

            Germany has a lot of lignite/brown coal and historically used it, at the same time met or will meet EU emissions targets by a balanced power policy and effective emission control.You don’t have to be a poorly educated green-nutter to understand that man has contributed significant amounts of nasties to the earth’s land, water, and atmospheric systems which the earth cannot absorb and purify. Also contributing to unpredictability of weather in recent decades.

            Unless you belong to the US Tea Party, most sensible folk acknowledge the causes and effects of global warming and climate change although not quite sure of the solutions.

            People don’t react unless the danger is imminent and that leaves space for speculation and disbelief.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, your global warmingist nonsense is being exposed now, lad.

              You’re getting hysterical now, as are your mates in the hysteria industry, but it’s true. People are on to your scam now.

              • Bonkim

                Yes Viceroy, top up on Gin and die laughing when the end comes. I will not be there so Adiu!

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, societies have always had you types preaching hysterically about the forthcoming end times, and demanding repentance. It’s no less laughable with you today than with those hysterics of yesteryear .

        • Bonkim

          Following a non-nuclear policy, Merkel is rethinking green subsidies. They have enough wind, and biomass.

          • Daniel Maris

            Yes, people keep saying she’s “rethinking” green subsidies. But the truth of the matter is that humungous amounts of green energy capacity continue to be added each year.

            • Bonkim

              It takes time for politicians to wake up to reality.

            • global city

              only to comply to the same carbon/renewable obligations as us. Removing nuclear means they have to up the amount of useless renewables, whilst also massively increasing the burning of anthracite.

              The figures are being deliberately skewered by greentards to imply that the green revolution is still underway because of a will and a belief… it is not.

        • Tony_E

          Yes Mrs Merkel has it about right – she’s building coal fired power statins.

  • Alexsandr

    dont forget 5% VAT on all the costs.
    so they add in costs to our energy bills then tax us for the privilege.
    The least they could do is to make the green taxes VAT exempt..

    • Denis_Cooper

      You know that under EU law once VAT has been applied to something that cannot be reversed, and the minimum rate is 5%.

      • Alexsandr

        another reason to leave the EU then

  • Icarus62

    Wind and solar energy are not going to ‘keep the lights on’, but then nor is anything else. Fossil fuels are being rapidly depleted and are responsible for growing climate chaos – it’s a matter of legitimate debate whether the rising cost of fossil fuels will crash global civilisation before global warming does.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      No, fossil fuels are not rapidly depleting.

      No, there is no “growing climate chaos”.

      No, there is no debate about hysterical envirowhacko claims about crashing global civilizations. It’s just the usual leftist hysteria, repackaged for today, and debunked once more just like all their previous hysterics.

      • dalai guevara

        But that’s the Owen Paterson line conflated with the Yeo Con line with a dash of generic peak oil depletion nuttery dished out by the corporations, not the clear thinking conservationists.

        You have fantastic ability, vicedude. You are so deluded you seriously think you would look good wearing your underpants back to front. Now tell me, have you ever tried to wear them inside out?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Have you ever tried not being a socialist nutter?

          • dalai guevara

            Don’t need to try anything with you.
            Paterson combined with Yeo combined with corporation scaremongering, that’s your line. I love it.
            I could be a national socialist Ukip Greenie for all you knew, you wouldn’t understand what that is, as you do not subscribe to a tradition of self-cultivation.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              We do know that you subscribe to socialist nuttery.

              • dalai guevara

                I am much much worse than a socialist nutter.
                And you love it. I have no issue with that.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  There is nothing worse than a socialist nutter, as history tells us quite clearly.

                  You are the worst, by definition.

                  And yes, you types would have no issues with socialist nuttery.

                • dalai guevara

                  off to the clubs now, socialising. it’s Saturday night after all. Ta-ra.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …what a coincidence… I was just thinking you could stand a good clubbing.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Didn’t your mamma tell you that threats of violence are not acceptable in circles of civilised debate?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …I think she was in favor of good clubbings, for the deserving.

                • Daniel Maris

                  So your mother favoured violence?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …why is it you NSDAPers are always fixated on others’ mothers?

    • Bonkim

      Yes – and exploding global populations, consumerism, and a world economy that needs growing continuously if not to collapse. A totally unsustainable scenario quite apart from man-made changes to the earth’s air, water and land systems and global warming.

      The question is not whether mankind will get extinct, but when.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Maybe we need to get rid of a few of us, to make more room. Care to volunteer?

        • Bonkim

          Charity begins at home – so lead the way, how it is done..

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Oh, I don’t need any charity, lad.

            But since you subscribe to that need, it only seems right that you’d volunteer.

            • Daniel Maris

              I think you need a rest, judging from your recent posts. There’s only so much you can do to prop up contradictions before it begins to tell. :)

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Yes, you NSDAPers always offer the “rests”, don’t you?

                • Daniel Maris

                  In your case ze var is over. Take a rest, you are clearly shot.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …says the NSDAPer ranting about lizards.

      • Icarus62

        You’re right that modern civilisation is predicated on endless growth. Kurt Cobb says it’s like a shark – it has to keep going forward, or it dies. It’s a recipe for disaster, for us and for the natural world as a whole. I doubt we’ll go extinct for a long while yet – there will be habitable places and people tough enough to survive virtually any outcome we can imagine… but it’s not going to be pretty.

        • Bonkim

          If we go back to pre-industrial rate of agricultural production and consumption and reduce populations to be able to live within those limits of water, energy, and minerals – fair chance of survival, but not at the present rates and where over 50% of essential global resources have been exhausted over the past 100 years.

          • Icarus62

            Exactly right Bonkim.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …again, perhaps you yourself should kick start the population reduction process, lad.

            It’s only fair.

    • swemson

      TROLL ALERT !!!

      Icarus62 is a professional climate alarmist. Every single claim he makes is a LIE! Our CO2 emissions have virtually nothing to do with climate change. For a true representation of the earth’s climate over the last thousand years see the following chart, which actually comes from the first IPCC climate assessment report from 1990:

      http://www.swemson.com/upl/G.1

      And fossil fuels are NOT being rapidly depleted. America has enough coal to supply all of our electricity for more than 500 years. When you add our coal to our oil & natural gas reserves, we’re the most energy rich country on earth.

      fs

      • Bonkim

        Live in hope – 500 years is not long in human history. Humans did not contribute anything to the heat audit in the graph you refer to but have done so significantly in the last 100 years.

        America may have enough coal but US population is still a small part of the global population which is catching up fast in terms of resource exploitation, production, and consumption.

        Very soon the US will also be economically and politically overwhelmed by the growing world populations and forced to change lifestyles – may not be able to compete in the global competition to get hold of the fast depleting resources.

        Don’t rest yet – there is such a thing as life-cycle in nature.much history to come yet.

        • Tony_E

          Actually, as the world gets more advanced on average, population will most likely peak and then fall back quite quickly – probably from around 2050 onwards we will see population reductions, with fewer children born, (due to advances in female emancipation and wealth distribution) and people living more productively for longer with much shorter retirement or inactive years.

          • Bonkim

            you are assuming heaven on earth and forgetting man is a competitive animal always looking for an advantage over others. Also regardless of population decrease with affluence, resource scarcity and continuing consumer-lifestyles are not mutually inclusive.

            Some chance of survival if populations and consumption rates are cut back to pre-industrial agrarian lifestyles, no motorised transport, rail or planes..

        • swemson

          Nonsense… The only warming that man has caused in the last 100 years is localized small scale warming… It’s called the “Urban heat island effect” caused by our pavements & sidewalks in our cities absorbing heat from solar rays.

          On a global scale, it’s statistically insignificant…

          Like a mouse fart in a forest… if you’re right there, it stinks a little for a short time.. and then it’s gone.

          What you fail to take into account is all of the ways that we’re responsible for cooling the earth… When we cut down dark green forests and replace them with fields growing wheat and other light colored grains, we reflect much of the sun’s heat back into space, rather than having it absorbed. The climate system is very complex, but NOBODY knows if man’s net effect on the system is warming or cooling.

          Short of committing species suicide, there’s nothing we can do about it anyway, so why worry about it…?

          fs

    • global city

      If only any of that were true then the madness we are currently suffering under could, perhaps, be justified.

  • chan chan

    I want to see these green taxes scrapped, gas fired power stations built, shale gas exploited to the hilt. And they should have started on new nuclear power stations years ago.

    • Bonkim

      does not matter if you burn the candle at one end or both – the question is when mankind will become extinct on earth.

  • AlecM

    Just wait until the Public gets to learn that the IPCC climate ‘consensus’ has been for 32 years a blatant scientific fraud.

    At any time, one of the authors of this paper 1981_Hansen_etal.pdf (it wrongly claims ’33 K GHE’ is from lapse rate warming when it’s really a third of that so no ‘positive feedback’, also incorrect IR physics later quietly corrected) could have withdrawn the paper and spared us. Much of the $100 billion research has been misdirected by governments eager to impose totalitarian rule.

    The lack of warming for 16 years proves no significant CO2-AGW. The warming in the 80s and 90s was from Asian aerosols polluting clouds and it saturated about year 2000.

    However, it seems we’ll have to defend ourselves by kicking out the Fabians and it might be very soon as the coldest winter for perhaps 200 years takes hold and the poor die in their 100s of 1000s. This is because our grid is unstable because of Davey, Huhne and Miliband’s predations and a major outage in deep snow will take days to fix.

    PS I forgot to tell you that last week Munich had the coldest start to winter for 200 years and 100s of 1000s of cattle have died in Colorado as the snow comes down there months early – the World’s climate is cooling fast.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, it’s projecting to be a very bitter winter.

      I think all the greenie envirowhackos better get ready for a shock. The public is on to their global warmingist scam now, and their windmill pimping days are about over. Somebody’s going to pay for all this stupidity, and the greenies better go to ground soon, before that ground freezes.

      • Daniel Maris

        You really think the Chinese are going to stop building wind turbines? You must be off your rocker.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          The Chinese won’t, but it’s for reasons you are too ignorant and poorly educated to understand, laddie.

          • Daniel Maris

            Try me Oh Great Intellect. Or is it the case you don’t wish to give the reasons.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              You haven’t the intelligence or educational level to understand, laddie.

              But if you do want to know, your first assignment in this self directed study would be for you to tell the rest of us what you’ve learned, in answer to your own question.

              It’ll require no more than 250 words, a short essay, to fulfill your assignment.

              • Daniel Maris

                Could it be something to do with trying to reduce the 760,000 deaths per annum linked to air and water pollution in China?

                Or maybe that’s a mere detail for people like you in the hydrocarbon industry.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No, laddie, much like you NSDAPers, they don’t much care about a few deaths. Those are just numbers to you and they.

                  Keep trying, you might stumble on it yet.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Racial stereotyping now…they don’t care about their own people?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  None of you NSDAPers care, lad. You socialist nutters are like that.

                • Daniel Maris

                  The idea I am a member of the NSDAP is purely a figment of your fevered francoist imagings.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, that’s what you NSDAPers have always said, right up until the trap springs shut .

                • Daniel Maris

                  I don’t know why you keep going on about the NSDAP as though you oppose them, since all your policies seem very much in line with them.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Typical socialist nutter tactic. Shriek back accusations of what you yourself are doing.

                  No, lad, you’re the socialist nutter, the NSDAP socialist nutter, to be exact.

    • HookesLaw

      Hansen and Mann are frauds
      Unfortunately the BBC and the govts own scientific advisor treat them seriously as do various universities desperate for grants
      The media lie supine and complicit

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Your socialist hero Call Me Dave is smitten by those frauds, laddie. He is a global warmingist nutter just like them.

  • Daniel Maris

    Peiser seems to be an advocate of defence against asteroid impact. So he might be said to have a vested interest on the basis that you can only get the international community interested in one doomsday scenario at a time.

  • andagain

    The controversy about the proportion of green taxes on energy bills
    looks trivial compared to the tornado that is going to hit parties in
    coming years – as the government’s self-imposed decarbonisation targets
    drive energy prices up relentlessly.

    This IS going to be fun.

  • McClane

    On the nose, Benny Peiser. Come back soon.

  • Curnonsky

    All that money being sucked out of consumers’ pockets is landing somewhere. Perhaps we should be concentrating on just who is benefiting from this scam?

  • dalai guevara

    “If the rise in wholesale gas prices is seen as a crisis,…”
    What rises are that? I thought they were stagnant, or even falling every now and then?
    When energy bills over that last decade have risen by 121%, profits of the BIG 6 have risen by 76% in the last three years, you complain about what? Minimal renewable subsidies that make up 8% of your bill? Why? These subsidies are bribes then are they? They are wasted mafia money? How so? Insulating ones home (one part of those costs) is not nonsense, changing your boiler to a more efficient one, upgrading your domestic lighting spec etc is not nonsense. Why do you portrait it as if it was? It’s not. Of the 8%, a substancial part makes perfect sense.

    Which brings us back to the real question: why have bills risen by 121%, not 8%?
    If someone thinks this was “unjustifiable”, will the OFT get involved?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      None of your global warmingist greenie envirowhacko stupidity makes “perfect sense”, laddie.

    • Daniel Maris

      Well said. This article is a mish mash of fact and fiction, policy and prejudice.

      The Germans – the biggest energy users in the EU are moving at a pace to green energy. It makes a lot of sense in terms of both health and energy independence – and price stability. COntrary to the doomladen predictions made here, the lights are still on in Germany.

      We are now moving into an era of new energy storage technologies which will dramatically improve the cost profile of green energy.

      Let’s start with something we can all agree on: it makes absolutely no sense to offer huge subsidies to the Chinese government (an aggressive and militaristic regime) to build and control nuclear power stations in the UK. There is absolutely no need for nuclear power in the UK. We can produce or buy gas. Having the Chinese Communists running your energy plants is not energy independence.

      Next I would say: let’s disentangle low carbon and green energy. The two go together comfortably but they are not synonymous. You can still favour green energy even if you think manmade global warming is nonsense.

      Energy usage has dropped dramatically in the last few years. That has to be factored into the overall equation. Our appliances are getting more efficient and our houses are better insulated than they used to be.

      Lastly, I think it is absurd to load all the costs of green energy, insulating poor people’s homes, and seeking out low carbon solutions on to energy bills. It would make much more sense to use stamp duty as the prime source of funding. The effects of that ulitmately would be to benefit householders and reduce the rewards going to land and property owners through sales (because people are already paying as much as they can for housing).

      • dalai guevara

        Yes, the nutcases on here are still conflating carbon with CO2, as much as they are conflating warmism with envirowhackoism, price with affordability, and socialism with social market economies. No doubt are they wearing their underpants back to front.

      • AlecM

        Dumbkopf: 16 years of no warming proves CO2-AGW is near zero.

        • dalai guevara

          Ah, another ‘scientist’. Care to explain this then?
          http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/

          Who cares about air temperature only when the ice is melting?

          • AlecM

            The N. Atlantic and N. Pacific are warm from a century of active sun so the Arctic ice melts because of high sea temperature. Today’s air temperature is below average and this summer was the lowest ever recorded air temperature: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

            As it is, it looks like we are to get a 1 in 200 year cold winter as that 5 deg C fall in the past few days drives the snow down N. America and Europe/Siberia.

            PS the N. Oceans are cooling fast.

            • dalai guevara

              The N Oceans are cooling because the ice is melting? Is that your final net sums answer?

              • AlecM

                I did not write that. The N. Oceans are cooling because of increased cloud cover/increased cloud albedo.

                The former is from the low solar magnetic field.

                The latter is because the melt of old ice means the stock of chemicals in old ice that reduce cloud albedo have been used up, the real cause of the 50-70 year melt freeze cycle.

                The same mechanism accounts for the amplification of tsi change at the end of ice ages and extensive Southern climate change long before CO2 rises.

                Anything else you wish to consult the expert on?

                • dalai guevara

                  So why will none of the politicians respond to such unison scientific unambiguousness?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …because they’re as ignorant and poorly educated as you are?

                • dalai guevara

                  Look, I found the down vote button.
                  Jeez tovarishch, manners you uneducated stooge.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …not as uneducated as you, laddie.

                • dalai guevara

                  you are angry
                  how boring

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …no, we conservatives don’t get angry at your ignorance and poor education, lad. We just highlight it.

                • dalai guevara

                  look tovarishch, there is no ‘we’
                  it’s just ‘you’
                  you have no manners.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, we conservatives are a we, and you are a you, as in you the ignorant and poorly educated lefty nutter.

                • dalai guevara

                  Not only no manners, you spout as if your baksheesh depended on it.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Can another of you lefty nutters translate this guy’s gibberish?

                • Daniel Maris

                  Common expression in the UK – which is just a bit up from France, in case you’ve forgotten.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …well, common amongst lefty nutters, perhaps.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Boringly and unamusingly angry.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …and your mate here, the equally ignorant and poorly educated lefty nutter.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Explain what? That you’re an ignorant and poorly educated lefty nutter, plastering up links that you have no clue about, nor the education to ever understand?

        • Daniel Maris

          You might notice I cited health and energy independence…I might have added domestic employment. I am an agnostic oin AGW.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            What you are is ignorant and poorly educated, as we’ve previously established, making you incapable of intelligent thought on the greenie envirowhacko stupidity you obsessively spew.

            • Daniel Maris

              The royal we is it now?

              Didn’t your mother teach you manners?

              You might ask why all your Republican tea party friends supported green energy instead of the carbon you peddle around the world.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Yes, we have established that you’re an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter, ranting greenie envirowhackoism.

                No need to ask anything based upon your fantasies, lad.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Yep, your mother didn’t teach you manners.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  She did teach me to recognize an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter, though.

                • Daniel Maris

                  How did she do that? With the help of a tawse?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …by seeing to it that I received a proper education, lad.

                • Daniel Maris

                  I’ll take that as a yes.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …yes, you socialist nutters take a lot of things, lad.

                • swemson

                  @ Viceroy’s gin:

                  You’re wasting you time trying to argue with this tool… The best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.. this exchange is simply childish…

                  fs

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Most of the time, I agree with you. But selectively, once in a while, some of the nutters have to be confronted.

                • swemson

                  I think you’re only giving them what they want… a foil upon which to spin their web of lies…… They all follow the same pattern… They expect us to name our sources, and when we won’t or don’t, they proclaim their victory loudly.. The problem is that oftentimes the “useful idiots” who really have no idea what’s going on sometimes believe their lies…

                  On the whole, I really think it’s best to just ignore them…

                  But hey… I admire your passion for the truth…

                  fs

                  BTW: I think we’re fighting this battle the wrong way… for more on that please see:

                  http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/why-global-warming-hoax-cant-be-killed/

                • Daniel Maris

                  “Tool”….”childish”…hmmm…

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        No lad, the Germans are building coal fired power stations. They recognise the need to keep the German car industry etc competitive in the face of the cheap and plentiful energy being made available to American industry by Fracking etc. Commercial necessity will ultimately determine energy policy thankfully and not obeisance to the false gods of the global warming fantasists who simply want to force their ridiculous beliefs onto the rest of us.

  • NTropywins

    Crazy green policies have a much wider impact. Closing coal powered generation increases the demand for oil and gas pushing the price of those commodities ever higher. Germany closing down nuclear again pushes up gas and oil prices on the international stage. Drax switching from burning coal to burning wood pushes up the cost of generation. And yet the government claim that the cost of generation is beyond its control. Then there is the cost of connecting wind farms to the grid and the other projects that are required to keep the lights on (e.g. STOR) which are hidden in network costs. The real cost of green policies is many times more than PotatoEd will ever admit. Just ask yourselves how much less electricity would cost if we used coal as the principal fuel.

    The cost of energy is a scandal. The failure of government to identify the true cost is criminal!

    UKIP are the only party who have a sensible approach to energy policy – repealing the ludicrous Climate Change Act.

    • HookesLaw

      The German economy and energy market ARE
      beyond this governments control

      • NTropywins

        Agreed but they are beset by the same madness. The madness of crowds. Strange though that they are turning to coal now. They are a little further into the madness than the UK so perhaps that’s where we will go next.

        Cant be any worse than the fleets of diesel generators standing by to fleece the citizens of the UK

  • Jupiter

    The normal explanation for such extreme government stupidity is that they are following orders from their EU masters. I assume that is what is happening here.

    • c777
    • Denis_Cooper

      That’s usually a good start in looking for an explanation, and it turns out to be correct in many cases. Not always, because sometimes it’s genuine pure homegrown stupidity, but very often. There is however the very important difference that if it’s pure homegrown stupidity then in principle it can be changed just by pressure at home, but if it’s EU then it can only be changed by getting the governments of other countries to agree to the change.

  • Swiss Bob

    These clowns only understand one thing, your vote.

    If you want to send them a message then vote UKIP in the European elections.

  • c777

    The very policies that the human cabbage Davey is pursuing are the same ones that destroyed Australian Labour under Gillard the Dullard.

  • Liberty

    Seems that Davey et al are desperate to sign up for nuclear for 35 years so that it puts the kybosh on shale for the foreseeable future. Bugger the cost – the Man Made Global Warming Crisis industry must continue at all costs.

    • starfish

      Not sure. No-one will build nuclear stations without some price guarantee especially if they have to cover decommissioning costs under a legislative code way into the future which is pretty u predictable but unlikely to be cheap or less onerous than now. Get a significant proportion of capacity nuclear and you are insulated against fossil fuel price rises to a degree. Givi g you time to develop renewable energy and other fossil fuel sources lime fracking.
      At least
      I would like to think so …..

      • Daniel Maris

        One thing I can guarantee you: new nuclear is going to be way, way more expensive than gas for the next 50 years.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …you are far too ignorant and poorly educated to be making guarantees, lad.

          • Daniel Maris

            Only someone who was ignorant and poorly educated would think that the price of nuclear power will ever fall substantially in relation to gas.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, actually, only someone as ignorant and poorly educated as you would make that statement.

              The intelligent and properly educated do not make such wild claims, 50 years into the future, particularly regarding that of which they are completely ignorant.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              If you think you can make guarantees over a 50 year period it is you who are ignorant.

          • Jethro Asquith

            Reading on here I get the impression that if anyone is ignorant and poorly educated it must surely be you. Your line of argument appears to be confined to insults and rudeness. Quite pathetic really.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, pointing out reality is not insulting.

              And your impression would be quite mistaken, lad.

              • Airey Belvoir

                The ‘lad’ thing is getting really, really tedious, to the point where any post ending with that patronising little word is worth jumping straight over.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Be my guest and get to jumping, lad.

          • Daniel Maris

            I know you mother didn’t bring you up right, but even so, don’t you think this lack of good manners reflects badly on your argument?

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Don’t you think it’s time you quit whimpering along behind people’s posts, lad?

              You’re an ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutter. You should stop whining, and do something about that.

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          That is an utterly ludicrous claim. You have absolutely no idea what supply, technological, geological, political, economic etc issues may emerge and so affect relative energy prices in the next 5 years let alone 50. You also have no idea how each of those issues will ineract with each other to affect prices.This is an absurd comment which no sensible person would even think let alone record. You can no more predict the price of Gas relative to any other energy cost than you can predict the price of Tesco shares (if they still exist) over the same 50 year period. You have no credibility in this debate and have now proved it beyond doubt. Fatuous.

  • itdoesntaddup

    UK gas price: annual average NBP Heren (converted from $/MMBtu as reported in BP Statistical Review to p/therm using annual average exchange rate from BoE)

    1996 11.96
    1997 11.95
    1998 11.25
    1999 9.76
    2000 17.93
    2001 22.05
    2002 15.81
    2003 20.39
    2004 24.34
    2005 40.64
    2006 42.78
    2007 30.01
    2008 58.86
    2009 31.08
    2010 42.45
    2011 56.43
    2012 59.72

    Current retail (includes 5% VAT) – about 144p/therm, plus 8-9% for those who have increased already.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Exactly what are those prices that you quote?

      • itdoesntaddup

        As described. Heren is the most respected price reporting service for gas and power markets and is often used for reference prices in the same way as Platts in oil markets. The prices are the annual average spot price in p/therm.

        • Daniel Maris

          Spot = no guide to anything really.

          • itdoesntaddup

            I suppose you are an expert gas trader.

            • Daniel Maris

              No, but I do know that a spot price is not the same as the cost of gas that goes into making up the price to the consumer. That will depend on a lot of things.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …none of which you would understand, or have ever dealt with, as you’re ignorant and poorly educated.

  • foxoles

    25,000 ‘excess’ deaths from the cold every year – and still Davey wants more. That blood on his hands must be getting pretty heavy by now.

    • Daniel Maris

      Once again you demonstrate that the pro-pollution lobby here can’t argue honestly. Those are excess deaths correlated to winter temperatures. You can’t read across from that to increased energy prices. The same sort of excess deaths are found even in Mediterranean countries. Even if everyone was given free electricity (as millions are already, in effect, by the state), you wouldn’t avoid excess deaths.

      Actual deaths associated with cases of hypothermia were 260 in 2010/11. Far too many of course – and something we should be tackling.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Yes, a bit ago in this discussion, you were actually imagining that the Communist Chinese warlords actually cared about public policy caused deaths in their country, which is laughable. And here you are uncaringly minimizing deaths caused by public policy, much like your Chicom brethren.

        You are a caricature, and you don’t even know it.

        • Daniel Maris

          No, you’re the Chicom, supporting those who oppose Mrs Merkel’s rational, patriotic and pro-green energy policy.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            No, lad, the Chicoms are as you, socialist NSDAPer types, except they are a bit further along on the nudge, shove, shoot continuum than you.

            It’s just funny that you managed to mindlessly caricature yourself, in the same discussion string. 😉

    • Breakingwind

      sorry fox, I think you have too many noughts in your fig
      but please give refs

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Surely at least a first degree in science/engineering should be a basic requirement to be Energy/Environment/DEFRA Minister, just as being an MD should be a basic requirement for being Health Sec?

    • foxoles

      Nonsense! Good grief, man, you can’t have properly-qualified people in charge – how would twits like Davey ever get to the top if that happened?!?

    • itdoesntaddup

      How about even a proper A level?

    • HookesLaw

      So why do such people not enter politics then?
      Your point is preposterous

    • Makroon

      Doctors running the NHS, scientists/engineers running everything ? (remember David Owen, Andrew Lansley ?)
      Been tried and failed repeatedly. We just need a decent cross-section of the population with broad life-experience and able to handle responsibility responsibly.
      There is still hope – the gathering global fracking revolution will force down gas prices and close most of the greeny vanity projects, and we might be able to sell any nuclear surplus to Germany !

    • Daniel Maris

      No.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Yes, the key to proper NSDAPism is to have you ignorant and poorly educated socialist nutters making the calls.

  • Abhay

    There isn’t a modicum of market mechanism left in energy markets. However, both the left and the pretend right are spreading spurious half-truths to sow confusion in the minds of people. Here’s what is going on – it’s a disastrous amalgam:

    (1) subsidies for ‘green’ ideology;
    (2) mandated subsidies for financially weaker sections in winter months (obviously impacting overall pricing);
    (3) massive energy trading markets where banks actually buy / sell more energy than many energy companies (introducing price distortions of significant scale)
    (4) intense, opaque lobbying by energy companies
    (5) oligopoly tendencies – ignored by policy makers

    Add the 5 points together and you have a problem, a cantankerous one! No party is willing to talk about points 2, 3 and 4.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    ‘LDs – wrong on every single issue since 1918’.

    Fortunately, they’ll be wiped out in 2015 as their sanctimonious socialist cant and complete absence of talent within their ranks shows they are a puffed-up pressure group the UK can well do without.,

    Forever.

    • Andy

      I wish that will be so, but I doubt it.

  • mjmwhite

    “Germany’s Green Energies Lead To Skyrocketing Electricity Prices – Feed-In Rates Increase More Than 10-Fold!”

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/18/germanys-green-energies-lead-to-skyrocketing-electricity-prices-feed-in-rates-increase-more-than-10-fold/

    The future is German?

    • FrenchNewsonlin

      Yes and they are now switching to, and building more, coal-fired power generating plants irrespective of the official EU green madness.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Yes, and they’re building lignite burning power plants, to be precise. Oh good Gaia, how awful these kraut vandals are.

        😉

        .

        • FrenchNewsonlin

          … but how entirely rational and wise!

      • dalai guevara

        “Irrespective”, how so?
        Care to elaborate?

        • FrenchNewsonlin

          As EU official policy is to move member states to a low carbon economy where so-called alternatives to conventional generation — coal nuclear etc — predominate, Germany’s commissioning of new coal-fired plants surely suggests that Berlin believes in economic pragmatism over Brussels’ costly pie-in-the-sky.

          • dalai guevara

            Germany is not ‘irrespectively’ doing anything that would contravene any legisation or regulations. To imply otherwise would be a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

            • Daniel Maris

              The contragreens around here are no respecters of facts. If they had their way we’d be back to the days of pea-soupers and 50,000 dead in a month from the smog.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                No we simply understand that wind turbines produce a negligible amount of electricity unreliably. They are no more than a sop to the Green lobby and will never make a material contribution to Britain’s energy needs. The Germans have recognised the folly of this green energy nonsense and are now building coal-fired power stations at a rate that would make the Chinese blush.

                • Daniel Maris

                  That’s what I mean about ignoring facts. Already something like 25 percent or more of Germany’s electricity is produced from renewables. Of the renewables element wind is the greatest contributor. The only way the renewables proportion is going is up. The Germans do NOT think increasing the amount of renewable energy is “nonsense”. All the main parties, CDU, SDP, FDP and Greens are committed to increasing the proportion – substantially so.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Like all politicians they have no commercial understanding and love wasting taxpayers money. When Germany industry demands lower energy costs it to enable it to compete, all of this fatuous wasteful green nonsense will be thrown into the dustbin of history. The public will start asking why it allowed itself to be hoodwinked by green fantasist idiots and you will have achieved the impossible lad by looking even more stupid than you do now.

                • Daniel Maris

                  So you at least admit unlike the more dishonest element here, that none of that has yet happened in Germany and that as things stand the country continues to move rapidly towards a green energy infrastructure.

                  One thing you lot don’t understand is that once you have put our green energy infrastructure in place, the operating costs (as with hydro and tidal barriers) are low.

                  The price of wind and solar energy has been falling markedly for years and most analysts agree this trend will continue, especially for solar.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  I spent many years managing the financing of power projects from start to finish working hand in glove with engineers and technical experts. One of many issues on which we were all in complete agreement was the complete pointlessnes of wind energy. It is unreliable and critically, generates little if any usable energy. It was and is encouraged by governments to burnish their ‘green’ credentials and as a solution to a problem that simply does not exist. The only clauses in the financing documentation which were fought keenly were those which determined the amount and guaranteed the payment of the relevant government subsidy. There was never a question that this form of power generation would be viable on its own merits. The entire green energy con will continue until the nonsense and lies of global warming have been finally laid to rest and public and commercial demand ensure that effective power generation is once again encouraged. The Germans have recognised this and while the rhetoric will continue to pander to the naive green idiots like yourself, the needs of German industry will ensure that effective power generation prevails.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Fine, you’ve got it right and the whole of Germany has got it wrong. I know which one I am backing. Germany is adding each year huge amounts of green energy capacity. It is a bare faced lie to pretend otherwise.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Greedy politicians with no technical knowledge and whose electability depends on persevering with the global warming lie and naive constituents. The Germans are building coal fired power stations and the percentage of resources devoted to this green rubbish will decline and like you and your fellow green dupes, consigned gratefully to the dustbin of history.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Yes, those hun defilers of Mother Gaia are falling all over themselves to build lignite burning power plants, thus defying global warmingist nutter orthodoxy.

              The heathens!

              😉

              .

              • Daniel Maris

                Germany remains committed to a 40% reduction in carbon emissions (compared with 1990) by 2020. How it gets there is not particularly material, unless perhaps you live close to a lignite station. However, emissions from coal power stations are also being reduced compared with older plants.

                These are what we in big school call facts. I know you’re not interested in them at the moment but when (if) you grow up you might see the value of these facts as opposed to your bonkers fact-free assertions.

                Viceroy – Guaranteed 99% fact-free.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, you global warmingist nutters are all about destroying the demon “carbon”, aren’t you? Looks like as long as the Germans make a “statement”, you nutters are satisfied.

                  Problem for you global warmingists is that heathens like these krauts are building lignite burning power plants.

                  Not just coal, lignite.

                  That’s just fecking hilarious.

                  😉

                  .

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Agreed. I just love watching warmist nutters being hoisted from their own petard.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Wheras you prognostications are 100% fantasy and wishful thinking.

            • FrenchNewsonlin

              If you say so. However this article http://bit.ly/1aweiKQ on Germany’s coal resurgence shades it differently. The “contradictions” between German “commitment” to green nonsense and the reality of the non-intermittent energy requirements of an industrial powerhouse, means its investment in coal and lignite power generation will last well into the future. By then the EU may have come to its senses about greenery (or even dissolved itself).

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Ironically, it’s the German government’s withdrawal of lignite subsidies that will hold down its growth in usage. If lignite were being subsidized as in the past, they’d likely be using double or triple the amount.

              • dalai guevara

                I will happily confirm that German resurgence of lignite is simply explained by the exit from nuclear. 25% once, 16% today, 0% in 2022. There simply is no ‘conspiracy’ aspect to all of this.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  No conspiracy, just their sensible statement that you global warmingist nutters are to be ignored, and lignite burning power plants are the order of the day.

                  The Teutonic bastages, how dare they ?!?!!?

                  😉

                  .

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                We can but hope you are right.

          • Bonkim

            In addition industrial consumers in Germany pay much lower prices than domestic.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              It is that pricing disparity that’s causing revolt amongst German residential consumers. They’ll put up with minor disparities, but the various greenie envirowhacko surcharges and secondary escalators are starting to make the natives restless.

              • Bonkim

                Germany is a major industrial exporter – hence the subsidy to maintain their edge – subsidy or taxes – what is the difference – ultimately they all result in similar outcomes – also Germany has many enlightened family friendly services that mean low child care costs, more women staying at home looking after children and overall greater contentment and less social discord despite the lower wages. Wage differentials in Germany are also lower than they are in Britain and rentals lower..

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, the grass is greener in Germany, or so the socialist nutters want to believe.

                  But better not to cherry pick which parts of their socialist model you want to mime, and simply deal with the one in question here, the global warmingist greenie envirowhacko aspects of their socialist model, which they are now abandoning, with good reason.

  • Austin Barry

    Inevitably, like Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and David Cameron, the preposterous Davey has an Oxford PPE.

    A PPE should instantly disqualify anyone from running for Parliament: it is the badge of lunacy.

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      I agree entirely. David Cameron (PPE Oxford), William Hague (PPE Oxford), Chris Huhne (PPE Oxford), Danny Alexander, David Miliband (PPE degree from Oxford), Ed Miliband (PPE degree from Oxford), Ed Balls (PPE degree from Oxford). Yvette Cooper (PPE Oxford), Peter Mandelson (PPE Oxford), James Purnell (PPE degree from Oxford) Ed Balls (PPE degree from Oxford), Jaqui Smith (PPE oxford), Ruth Kelly (PPE Oxford)…no doubt there’s more.

      And the proles could hear about it through the wonderful media:
      Stephanie Flanders (PPE oxford)
      Rupert Murdoch (PPE oxford)
      Nick Robinson (PPE oxford)
      Nick Cohen (PPE oxford)
      Michael Crick (PPE oxford)
      Krishnan Guru-Murthy (PPE oxford)
      John Sergeant (PPE oxford)
      James Robbins (PPE oxford)
      Evan Davis (PPE oxford)
      David Dimbleby (PPE oxford)

      • Denis_Cooper

        Doesn’t Cambridge get a look-in at all?

        • roger

          Very rarely, too much science.

      • Austin Barry

        And let’s not forget Mehdi Hasan.

        • Andy

          Wish we could.

        • Daniel Maris

          I thought he went to a Madrassa somewhere near Kabul, to judge from his comments about “Kafirs”.

      • Abhay

        What a fukking disaster!
        Watch the emergence of a Kleptocracy right in front of your eyes.
        This is a great nation. It deserves much, much better.

        • neotelemachus

          I prefer ineptocracy but the sentiment is correct.

      • neotelemachus

        Good research. The only one who has done anything noble is Murdoch. The rest are pimps or prostitutes.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Don’t be so sure about Murdoch. He’s out to soak up cash and buy influence, like all the rest. He’s playing the same game as the others, for the most part. His pimping and prostituting is just focused to a slightly different clientele, but only slightly.

          • Abhay

            Good, you pointed that out.

            That corrupter of politics has helped the cause of toxic progressive-liberal-moralism in very subtle ways – by backing vile neocon tendencies. He has backed people who until recently were Trotskyists and believe in ‘imposed progress’ dogma of the left. Their Trotskyist DNA is intact.

            • Daniel Maris

              So Murdoch’s a secret Trotskyite enabler? Thanks for the tip. :)

              • Abhay

                If you are ill-informed there is not much I can do. All the godfathers of neo-conism are ex Trotskyists/lefties and now most are on the payroll of Murdoch! Where shall we begin the roll call – UK or the US?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Bingo. The neocons of today were the Trots of yesterday.

                  You can go right straight down the list.

                • Daniel Maris

                  I’ll grant you Murdoch does actually look like a lizard.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …there isn’t much you socialist nutters can grant anybody, lad.

                • Daniel Maris

                  …any humour that was in your lemon was clearly squeezed out long ago.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …were you trying to be funny, lad?

                  That’s against the NSDAPer handbook isn’t it?

                • Tom Tom

                  NSDAP references are odd really. A political party that was able to mobilise German unemployed, build factories, and wage a war for 6 years without needing 24-hour production, and hold off the British Empire, USSR, and USA……….really a staggering achievement for a political party disbanded in 1923 and re-built in 1925 sponsored by Big Business to fight “Socialism”. Fritz Thyssen and Otto Stinnes were hardly interested in Socialism and loathed the SPD

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Yes, you can do a lot when you’re willing to shoot the dissenters, and open the camps.

                • Daniel Maris

                  You mean like Franco, the Pope’s darling?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …and one of your NSDAPer heroes, no doubt .

                • Daniel Maris

                  So you believe Murdoch is engaged in a secret lizard-style plan to have Trotskyites rule the world? That’s about as nutty as having an ice pick sticking out of your head.

                • Abhay

                  Stop being an idiot and putting words in my mouth. I am amazed you can’t even understand tiny posts. Pay attention:

                  >Murdoch funds and supports neocon tendencies in the US and UK
                  >The heavy-weight neocon ideologues (e.g. Irving Kristol, David Horowitz) are ex-Trots. In the UK, the neocon allies such as Christopher Hitchens and Aaranovich are ex Trots.
                  >They will never get to rule the world. Never!

                  I don’t expect you to understand any of this.

                • Daniel Maris

                  Christopher Hitchens (dead by the way, in case you didn’t know) and David Aaranovich are now neo-conservatives?

                • Tom Tom

                  David Aaronovitch of Marxism Today ? Son of Sam and like him a CPGB member. Friend of Mandelson and Charles Clarke. Like that other well-known and Quango Queen Sue Slipman, Jewish……..and no price is too high for Britain or the USA to pay for Israel

                • Tom Tom

                  Actually these are FORMER Trots who have been re-wired and now espouse
                  the US Global Hegemonist View that Israel and the USA will rule the
                  world by force of arms and destruction of national sovereignty through
                  WTO, and GATS which is the real mechanism to make Banks and Finance
                  rulers of the globe

            • Tom Tom

              Kristol, Wolfowitz, Podhoretz, Strauss, Schulsky, Kagan, Feith – all
              Neo-Cons……all Jewish……flip-flopping from Extreme Left to Extreme
              Right

          • Daniel Maris

            He’s one of the lizard people as well is he?

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …what are you ranting about now, lad?

              • Daniel Maris

                David Icke thinks that Murdoch is one of the lizard people and so do you apparently.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …does he think you’re a socialist nutter, too?

        • Daniel Maris

          There’s a lovely wind turbine on the Sky News building in London. It always makes me smile when I see it turning (which is about 99% of the time in case you are wondering).

          • neotelemachus

            Murdoch single-handedly brought choice in television through Sky, revolutionised (and saved) print journalism in this country, and built the world’s foremost media empire. All the rest sucked at the public teat and destroyed far more than they created. The windmill is irrelevant.

            • Tom Tom

              Murdoch took over BSB which had superior technology. Eddie shah dealt with print unions. Murdoch simply had the rules bent so he could acquire monopoly position in newspapers and funded Sky out of Sun revenues

          • Hexhamgeezer

            99%? They must have it wired to the mains.

      • roger

        Yes, they spend too much time on the politics, not enough on good economics and do the wrong philosophy as well.
        Oh, for a politician with Maths, Science and perhaps an MSc. in Systems Analysis.
        It is as if the C.P. Snow ‘two cultures ‘warning had never happened.

      • Makroon

        Ridiculous isn’t it ?
        BTW, you’ve double-counted Balls – one is more than enough.
        And you’ve missed out Tom Tom (PPE Oxford) wink.

        • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

          Thanks, haha…I had missed that one, I shall remember next time I answer one of his comments.

    • Pip

      Don’t worry, this idiot will be little more than a bad memory come 2015, same as all his party.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Think so? What if the Millipedes offer select LD’s an “amnesty”, shortly before the election? They could arguably ensure their majority, if they played it right. Having watched the Cameroon disaster these past few years, smarter Millipedal heads may want to see off any possibility of coalition government.

        Clegg and a few others would be locked out, obviously, but others would turncoat if given the chance. They’re surely not burdened with principle, as we know.

        • Pip

          Millipede will never be PM, he isn’t fit to run a whelk stall.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Neither is Call Me Dave, but that didn’t matter much, did it?

    • HookesLaw

      Yawn
      Terrible thing this University education
      But I suppose you nutjobs need some figleaf to cover your ignorance

    • Nicholas K

      I think it was The Spectator’s own infallibly perceptive Rory Sutherland who suggested in a recent column that the simplest and safest course of action would be to jail all PPE graduates on graduation, to prevent them from causing harm.

    • Tom Tom

      Just stick with the Lawyers……Ken Clarke, Geoff Hoon, Jack Straw, Tony Blair,

  • keith

    what i don’t understand is how the tory backbenchers have turned into sheep on the coalitions energy policy, surely they should be hitting at the liberals expensive green decisions but watching them backing the Mad Ed Davey is truly a sicking sight. what is the matter with them, they are going to be held to account come 2015, they are fond of telling us how great this coalition has been, so not speaking up now will be remembered then, i understand Cameron and the front bench gang, after all he voted for ed millibands energy bill when the last labour government introduced it, but seeing all those nodding dogs behind Ed Davy is shameful

    • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

      The EU; that is only thing I can think of. This Davey nonsense and the failure of the Coalition to trumpet Miliband’s role (to say what the whole world knows) when he was Energy Secretary etc means they all want the same thing (which just ahppens to be teh EU’s will too).

    • Pip

      I suspect because they are all controlled by bribery or blackmail. Traitors and Crooks one and all, time for a complete change.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Yes. As always, follow the money.

        • Daniel Maris

          Sounds like you followed it to North America.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Is that what the voices are telling you, lad?

            • Daniel Maris

              No, that’s what you told us.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Is that what the voices told you to tell us, lad?

                • Daniel Maris

                  OK, then you don’t live in North America and have never worked in the hydrocarbon industry…my apologies.

                • Daniel Maris

                  HINT …you better put on the British English spell checker in future.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  HINT: You better have the voices check your posts in future, lad.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …maybe you should apologize to the voices, lad.

    • berosos_bubos

      they are just very very ignorant

    • c777

      Not all of them.
      You can see the good guys here.
      A private members bill to repeal the disastrous Climate Change Act.

      http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2013/9/10/future-of-the-climate-change-act.html

    • HookesLaw

      The latest IPCC report does give cover for rowing back on green taxes
      And the LDs do give the Tories the opt out @ the next general election over energy policy.
      Its the Chancellor who determines tax and he has 2 budgets to use the latest IPCC, which backs down on the crisis stakes, to back the LDs into a corner.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        It is your hero Call Me Dave who has to be backed into a corner, lad. He’s a global warmingist nutter just like the rest of his LibLabCon soulmates.

      • keith

        i think this week shows that it is the liberals who are pulling the strings in the energy department, when the rises in prices were announced the silence from conservative front and backbenchers was deafening but i think this is building in to a wider move on the part of the liberals who have jumped started their election run, Clegg will attack education policy this week, danny alexander has already taken credit for the raising of tax thresholds, Cameron looks like he has been wrong footed and wont attack bad liberal ideas or maybe he agrees with them, as for Osborne, i dare say he will still tell us he wont be putting up fuel duty and tell us its a cut ( still not worked out how something not going up is a cut ), i see Tesco kept beans at 25p last week is that a cut. If Osborne is going to do anything he needs to be radical people on just over 42k are not super rich so why do they start to pay high rates of tax, he must give tax breaks to companies who will start fracking now, oh he cant, Cameron has gone along with the new and over burdensome rules brought in by the Mad Ed Davy to slow fracking down, Davy knows the new rules being brought in by the EU will make fracking nearly impossible.
        sorry if that went on and i began to rant but WAKE UP REAL TORIES OR IT WILL BE TO LATE

        • 2trueblue

          With less than 2years to go Cameron has to get a grip on the Conservative vote. There should be no talk of another coalition. It has been a real problem for people to have any idea about what being a conservative really is. Looking back he should have called another election at the time and got a proper mandate. I have no respect for the LibDums.

    • Nicholas K

      They were already sheep; it wasn’t just Cameron and his front bench that voted for the madness that is the Climate Change Act, the entire House of Commons did, with about three notable exceptions, such as Peter Lilley.

  • foxoles

    Davey must go. He is, as shown above, quite simply a liar: a liar whose lies have led to ever-more deaths from the cold. He has got a cheek, to now cry crocodile tears about his own zealotry.

    • greggf

      And we thought Huhne was bad…..

      • Andy

        Least he ended up where he rightfully belonged.

        • Ron Todd

          Yes back on the BBC

          • Andy

            Isn’t it depressing. Best watch SkyNews. Much better anyway.

            • Daniel Maris

              Yes, and they have a huge wind turbine on their HQ in London.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Here’s something for Cameron and Clegg to consider:

    https://www.cfact.org/2013/09/19/gullible-green-sailors-trapped-in-the-arctic/

    “Gullible Green sailors trapped in the Arctic”

    “Should they sue Sierra Club Canada for predicting an ice-free Arctic in 2013?”

    Pity that neither of them were persuaded to join in this demonstration of the reliability of the climatological theory they both espouse and preach to others …

  • Denis_Cooper

    “In reality, the coalition’s Energy Bill will inevitably lock Britain into ever higher energy prices. What is more, the bill’s whole approach is absurd.”

    Just to be clear about this: for good or for ill this is the coalition’s Energy Bill and it enjoys the full support of both of the parties in the coalition.

    • itdoesntaddup

      Not quite. 7 Conservatives were in the NO lobby with 2 Labour and 1 DUP. 85 Conservatives and 13 Lib Dems did not vote. At least some of those disagreed with the Bill.

      That still left 396 MPs voting for it across all parties.

      • 2trueblue

        And all heating 2 homes on our money. No wonder they have no idea what it is all about.

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