Coffee House

Will Tories rebel again over the lobbying bill?

3 September 2013

5:52 PM

3 September 2013

5:52 PM

MPs will vote on the second reading of the unpopular lobbying bill at around 7pm. It has not had a particularly enjoyable introduction to the Commons this afternoon, with attacks from Labour and nervous questions from Coalition MPs worried about its effect on innocent charities. Some Tory MPs – including Douglas Carswell – intend to vote against the second reading, but from conversations I’ve had with backbenchers this afternoon, it looks as though a bigger rebellion will come on the programme motion, which puts the bill into a committee of the whole house (good) but with a guillotine – or time limit – for debate (bad). The reason the guillotine is bad is that it stops proper consideration of the bill, cutting the number of opportunities to iron out flaws. A few Tory MPs are also considering supporting Graham Allen’s motion delaying the legislation as well. In the debate, David Davis told Angela Eagle that ‘I rather agree with her’ that the bill was being pushed through the House with ‘excessive haste’, and asked whether the Opposition would vote against the guillotine. She confirmed that she would.

I’ve already explained why the row about this legislation has obscured what the Conservatives had hoped would be a fantastic opportunity to prod Labour’s union links (they were so complacent about the legislation that I understand ministers hadn’t planned a programme of union attacks and were instead expecting that backbenchers would rise to the opportunity to join in their favourite sport of union-bashing). But that there is a potential for a rebellion in their own ranks (albeit a small one) just serves to underline that a serious running sore in the party has not healed, in spite of the good summer the party enjoyed. That running sore is that Tory MPs just don’t trust the leadership and their ministerial colleagues when they tell them that a policy is fine, well-drafted and well-backed up with evidence. They had a period after the 2012 budget where U-turns appeared when the ink was barely dry on letters explaining pasty and caravan taxes to constituents. That omnishambles was a long time ago, but last week’s Syria vote showed that backbenchers just can’t take the Prime Minister at his word when he asks them to trust him on a serious decision. And this week MPs aren’t sure whether it’s worth taking ministers at their word on the lobbying bill.

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  • anneallan

    Oh, another rushed, ill thought out motion. Quelle b****y surprise. They’re like number nine buses – none at all, then several arriving at the same time.

  • kyalami

    Time for an election, methinks.

  • anyfool

    Some of these Tories have a death wish, yapping about innocent charities, almost all the major charities are now branches of the Labour party and no matter what Tories do, they will always oppose and lie about them.
    Legislate them back to voluntary organisations.

    • telemachus

      I challenge you to justify that crazy assertion
      I would grant that you mention the only party that cares but the 2 charities with which I associate have mostly Tory and UKIP folk at our fundraisers
      This is of course entirely appropriate since we target the rich folk in our community

      • anyfool

        mostly Tory and UKIP folk at your fundraisers will be right, I was talking about the higher echelons who are Labour placemen on massive wages who are using charities as a propaganda arm of your despicable lot of freeloaders.
        That the fundraisers are mainly Tory and Ukip should be no surprise because they comprise mainly of decent people, not that you would think that from some of your vile ranting about these people.
        Even here you show your lack of decency and propriety by taking money from people one day then coming on here along with the other creatures that infest the left and spouting hatred against the very people who give their time and money for your charities.
        Can you not see what you really are, do the two faces you see in the mirror not give you some idea of your cant and hypocrisy

        • telemachus

          It is the duty of the reasonable to educate the unreasonable as to the inequalities in our society
          Those who work with us locally at least give gesture to the needs of those less fortunate
          As such I am heartened to see us moving back towards nineteenth century philanthropy from the uncaring attitude lauded by Tebbit, Joseph, Lawson et al

          • Colonel Mustard

            What a load of tripe. The “duty of the reasonable to educate the unreasonable” is just the sort of controlling crap I would expect from a boastful left-wing fascist like you.

            Who decides what is “reasonable”? You? And who decides who needs to be “educated”? You?

            No wonder you admire Stalin you detestable creep.

            • telemachus

              This is the kind or reasoned argument one gets from the Duvalier Brigade. At least words are cheap and on this occasion my finger nails are intact

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                You pollute every debate instigated by the Spectator and are a blight on this country. Be gone.

              • Colonel Mustard

                It is no more a reasoned argument than your original comment which is just socialist propaganda predicated on an arrogant and detestable (given the factual record of your party) presumption that conflates politics with morality.

                And I see we have a new label to go along with another nasty smear. I’m the insurgent, the resistance in the enemy occupied country of Little England. You just represent the tyranny of the occupying regime. Your on-the-record enthusiasm for gulags for those who dissent from your tedious orthodoxy make it crystal clear who is more likely to be doing the finger nail pulling.

  • redteddy

    This is an evil piece of proposed legislation which will shackle those organisations which fight for change in the country. The bill is an attack on the trades unions because it curtails their ability to fund the party they formed. Make no mistake, this is yet a further attack on those grass root organization which fight for the interests of the poor, disabled, and the unemployed. Disgracefully the bill does nothing to stop the bribing of MPs by corporate interests. Corporate interests which fund the Tory Party and attack workers rights.

    • HookesLaw

      Good to see you admit that the Labour party is the tool of the trade unions.
      Otherwise the usual lefty propaganda rubbish.

      • redteddy

        Well HookesLaw. Your reply is just another example of the hatred nasty right wing hacks like you have for ordinary people of Britain. Your remarks on the relationship between Labour and the Trades unions are typical of the Mail mouths who make up the Tory par-a party controlled by big business whose activities will not be touched by this bill. You are just a right wing gas bag with no morality.

        • HookesLaw

          So labour IS a tool for the trade unions… just so we all know.
          How does ‘big business’ control the Tory party? Does it have votes at conference, like the trade unions do?

          Your fantasy world does at least make a refreshing and somewhat more amusing change from all the other nutjobbery we get around here.

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          Big business does not vote at Conservative party conferences while the Trade Unions enjoy that privilege at the Labour party equivalent. Listening to a leftist talking about democracy, a concept they hate unreservedly, is simply nauseating.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Labour have a long and hard to beat record of policies so damaging to the ordinary people of Britain that they must have been promulgated by hatred for them. The impact of their mass, uncontrolled and gleefully malevolent immigration “policy” (to rub the right’s nose in diversity) is just one of them, creating a primary school place crisis devastating to communities.

          You are just a left wing gas bag with an inflated sense of your own righteousness and moral superiority. Like we need another one of those here.

          • redteddy

            Big business does not vote at Tory Party conferences. I thought nobody voted at Tory party conferences. Corporate interests run the Tory party-it lobbies the Party continuously. So your reference to the Trades Unions and the Labour Party is a joke, as are you.Chuzziewit.
            ..Colonel Mustard. I don’t like mustard and I dislike your bigoted politics even more. As far as gas bags are concerned well there are those like you who want to resurrect the days of our imperialist past. As far as policies are concerned well I remember black Wednesday and 15% interest rates. I seem to remember that we had a Tory government then. I would sooner be a gas bag than a morally bereft, Tory imperialist with a totally racist mentality.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              Propagandist nonsense from a left-wing gas-bag exhibiting all the sanctimonious holier than thou crap you expect from Labour supporters. “Only we can occupy the moral high ground because only we care about ordinary people”. The filth that occupied Downing Street between 1997 and 2010 inflicted more harm on ordinary people than any other government in living memory and you have the utter gall to pontificate to the rest of us about your moral superiority. I only wish Cameron et al were doing more to scour the rancid filth of socialism from Britain and all the ruin, mediocrity, failure and pain it brought with it.

              • redteddy

                I am afraid that your views convict you. Hitler referred his opponents as filth. You really should join the 21 century.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  I doff my hat to Colonel Mustard whose response to your tedious imbecelic utterings captures my feelngs exactly. Shoulldn’t a leftist idiot like you be plying his trade on labourList instead of trying to mix it with the adults?

            • Colonel Mustard

              Bear in mind that your ridiculous characterisation of my politics and my actual politics are not mutually inclusive. I don’t want to resurrect anything. On the contrary I long to bury forever the kind of impoverished socialist stupidity that your ill-informed comments represent. I am not a Tory, not an imperialist and not a racist. Those promiscuously bandied labels, you should learn and learn well if your tiny red-painted pea brain can accommodate it, are not valid just because you say so.

              I like mustard very well. Especially English mustard.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Good. I support it unreservedly.

      • redteddy

        Thinks for confirming your bigotry. So typical of Tory believers.

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          How predictably leftist. The moment anybody disagrees with the consensus of the socialist ‘hive mind’ they are bigots, racists, fascists etc etc. Pathetic you leftists are destroying this country with your hatred of democracy, free speech, choice and alternative opinions. You rot society with your devotion to mediocrity, failure and intolerance.

          • redteddy

            I really think you should calm down. I just criticize what I read in your posts. The trouble is that we have socialism for the rich bankers, and unemployment for those who sell their Labour Capitalist society does not need socialists to rot it. It is already rotting and spreading the stench right across the globe. It is accompanied by the rotten stench from cabbages like yourself.

  • Russell

    Not a surprise that MP’s will not pass a Bill which made them not only stand up and say that a ‘note that they had an interest in the subject’ should be made, but more importantly did not require them to say what that interest was (name of company or group, financial gain for the MP or benefits received).

  • Peter Stroud

    Why should Tory back benchers trust Cameron? He has become more and more of an Europhile since 2010. He introduced the gay marriage bill: though there was no sign of it in the manifesto. His boasting about his green credentials, and leading the greenest government ever, put up energy bills and made green companies, and some MPs rich on taxpayer’s money. But most of all, he hasn’t listened to his back benchers, and has turned his back on rank and file Conservatives. He is a poor leader.

    Added to Cameron’s lack of leadership, and seemingly wishy washy political ideas, there is the inefficient drafting of bills. This is inexcusable. We all remember the criticisms of Labour’s drafting skills, when the Tories were in opposition. Now we are seeing the same lack of expertise in the coalition.

    • HookesLaw

      Absurd. He is preparing to offer a referendum on the EU.
      The proposal to allow parliament to vote on gay marriage was in the equalities manifesto. The vote was a free vote.

  • Leo McKinstry

    Fascinating, isn’t it? When the lobbying scandal first broke earlier this year, the left were all in favour of tight regulations, thinking it would affect just big business and evil tobacco companies. But now, to their horror, they realize that that the noisy, highly partisan activities of their own pressure groups, charities, think tanks and trade unions might be curtailed. So they start to screech hysterically, which just proves why this legislation is so badly needed. Personally, I am sick of how the airwaves – particularly those of the BBC – are filled with politicised scare-mongering that masquerades as independent research. “A new report today says that cuts in Government spending…..” or “A new report today shows that immigration has boosted…..” blah, blah, blah.

    • redteddy

      You nasty little man. This is an evil bill which will destroy democracy.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Well with a pseudonym like yours you should know all about nasty little men, evil and destroying democracy.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        As if anybody on the left is faintly interested in democracy. They care only about a democracy of those committed to the socialist cause and hate any deviation from their views. Labour and democracy – hilarious.

      • Noa

        I said something similar to the waiter after dinner the other night.

    • Gareth

      So because they are groups with whom you disagree, it’s okay to silence them? It’s a dangerous precedent to set, if you know your history.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Presumably you refer only to leftist pressure groups like charities, trade unions etc. I suspect you are quite happy to silence the interests of business i.e. the people who actually generate a bit of wealth for this country. Typically hypocritical Labour nonsense. If I were Leo MCKinstry my response to you would be QED.

        • Gareth

          You presume wrongly. The right to be heard: yes. The right to buy influence: no.

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Oh I doubt that very much. Try telling Len McCluskey or any other left-wing scumbag that they have a right to be heard but not buy influence. Hilarious.

            • Gareth

              Well, frankly, you can try and dissuade me of a view that I don’t hold, but it’s not really a fruitful discussion, as I don’t hold the view you’re ascribing to me. However, I would be interested to hear why you think you know my own opinion better than I do.

          • Noa

            Do you think the newly released Chris Huhne will feel threatened by this Bill?

    • tomwest

      Yes, it’s terrible that organisations that aren’t polticial parties want to influence government polices.
      Who would have thought they would be all so despicable as to try and get the national government to support and further their goals?
      Clearly only political parties should have any say in how the country should be run, or how to improve people’s lives.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        I get your point and fair enough but we do at least get to vote for political parties. I have no say in what a nasty sententious little creep like Owen Jones for example does and says while oiling his loathsome way around the corridors of power.

        • tomwest

          Fair enough. How do you decide who can or can’t try and influence government policy?

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Has it only just occurred to you that the left is comprised exclusively of sanctimonious, lazy, amoral, anti-democratic, sententious hypocrites? That apart, great comment.

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