Coffee House

Why the Tories need to reunite the Right

26 September 2013

5:50 PM

26 September 2013

5:50 PM

One of the most important things about British politics right now is that the left is united and the right is divided. The combination of the Liberal Democrats going into coalition with the Tories and Ed Miliband’s leadership of the Labour party has seen left-wingers who moved from Labour to the Liberal Democrats during the Blair years go back to Labour. At the same time, Ukip has started eating into the Tory core vote.

Combine this with constituency boundaries that hugely favour Labour and it becomes evident that Labour can win with nowhere near 40 percent of the vote.

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If the Tories are to stop this happening, they need to reunite the right: to win back the vast majority of those voters who have moved to Ukip. Doing this is going to take a combination of carrot and stick. The carrot is more robust Tory position on welfare, immigration, human rights and Europe. The stick is warning of the consequences of putting Ed Miliband into Downing Street.

There’ll be some who talk about courting Ukip voters as a distraction. But Ukip is currently polling in the low double digits, compared to the three percent it received at the last general election. If the Tories can’t get Ukip back into the low single digits, it is very hard to see how they can win the next election.

Read James Forsyth’s politics column in this week’s Spectator here, and Toby Young’s call for a Tory-Ukip pact from the bottom here.


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Show comments
  • Smithersjones2013

    Look at it this way. The Tory party betrayed its most successful leader ever and instead put at its head a bunch of raving idiots some 23 years ago come November. It has been divided and dysfunctional ever since. Its current leader and his rather elitist clique have been telling the world that the party is outdated (needs modernisation) and toxic (needs detoxification) for the last 7 years validating every piece of vile propaganda spread by the left (well except the bit about eating babies perhaps) likely in order to promote their leadership interests over and above the wider interests of their party. The Tory brand is utterly and irrevocably trashed

    Not only that but the current leadership clique seem to take every opportunity to abuse with great relish right of centre voters.

    Further to this the Tories have severe electoral problems throughout Scotland and increasingly in urban areas across the nation

    Why on earth would right of centre voters want to be associated with such a vile self-serving and shallow leadership and such a broken party?

    If the right is to reunite it needs to be under a banner other than the Toxic Tory one which is frankly more trouble than it is worth. I for one will not even consider voting Tory anymore under the current circumstances.

  • Roy

    There is nothing wrong with conservatism, nothing wrong with self determinism and free enterprise. It just happens that the left have twisted and turned the free particles of todays world back a century to the class ridden society they still see or portray as dominant. Once you have been smitten by the Labour propaganda machine it is hard to turn it around. The present representatives of conservatism have made a piss poor job of showing their wares, rather they have lost them and joined the opposition! They still have a marvellous chance to grab hold off popular common sense policies that are at the top of peoples minds. But seem on their present form to be headed for a disappointing conclusion for the forthcoming elections. Already chances have been dramatically lost, and would seem have learned nothing from them. Like the proverbial lemmings are destined for the cliff of fate if they don’t shift over and listen to the people.

  • rtj1211

    So UKIP have got both the Tories AND Labour worried, eh??

    And David Dimbleby banned the Libdems from Question Time last night. He had UKIP, Conservatives, Labour, the reformed cocaine snorter reading from Das Kapital and a very right wing journalist.

    Whatever next: 2015 debates including Farage?? Referendum Bill passed in HOC??

    • Wessex Man

      and why not, are you that frightened of Ukip that you wouldn’t behave in a democratic way and keep UKip out in favour of the Lib/dums rapidly being left in Ukip’s wake!

  • Daidragon

    Much as I’m enjoying reading the swivel eyed right arguing amongst themselves, isn’t it true that if Ed Mightyband holds on to Labours 2010 voters and keeps the Lib Dem switchers, he will be the next PM irrespective of what happens between UKIP and the Tories?

    • Colonel Mustard

      And then we will be governed by the swivel-eyed left again.

      • Daidragon

        The point is I don’t think it will make that much of a difference if UKIP falls back to the 3% they got at the last GE. Cameron needs new voters if he wants to win a majority. Where are these new voters going to come from. UKIP v Tory is a sideshow.

        • Smithersjones2013

          Ironic isn’t it that Camerons first act in ‘victory’ after the 2010 elections will likely be the reason for his downfall. Given most of those who defected will view Clegg’s signing up to the Coalition as a betrayal (much as many former conservatives view Cameron’s liberal tendencies) there is likely nothing that Clegg can offer to persuade those former Libdems to return.

          Consequently other than the Tory vs UKIP ‘sideshow’ there are no other ‘shows’ in town. Its pretty much done and dusted. Hence the pointless (and tediously endless so it seems) Tory handwringing in media outlets like the Spectator……

  • NotYouNotSure

    Funny, directly below this article there is another article with title: “Even if Miliband really has shifted left, the Tories are staying in the centre”, so which is it centre or right or has the right someone become the centre ? Some might interpret this comment as a snarky, but in all seriousness, not being able to tell what you are (which is most certainly a Tory trait), cannot be good for deciding voters.

  • george

    Britain has a Right? You could have fooled me. UKIP best represents the classical liberal tradition, not anything I would identify as ‘right-wing’, with all its vicious and extreme connotations.

  • Nick

    From what I hear,a vote for UKIP in the GE will probably bring about a Labour party win.That would be awful….But the Conservative party is awful as well which is why I just can’t bring myself to vote for Cameron.
    Therefore my heart and conscious will be clear when I vote for the party that I believe in………….UKIP.

    • John Clegg

      Well done Nick, Why should we vote Conservative just because it’s a little bit LESS awful than Labour. We all should vote for that which we honestly believe.

      • Nick

        Thank you John.It’s a common saying now that all three parties are the same but with different colours,so voting UKIP makes some sense.
        Those three parties have all had their chances over the years to make a positive difference but all I see is financial austerity,mass immigration and the UK being plunged into unnecessary wars……amongst other things.
        So it’s UKIP for me.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I wonder which will be the best attended fringe events at the Conservative Party Conference.

    I fully expect it will be Nigel Farage’s Events …. details here:

    The Bruges Group fringe meeting outside the Conservative Party Conference on Monday (30th September) from 1pm to 3pm. The meeting will be held at the Great Hall, Town Hall, Albert Square, Manchester, M60 2LA and admission is free. Nigel is also speaking at the Freedom Zone, The Bridgewater Hall, Lower Mosley Street, Manchester M2 3WS, at 4pm on Monday 30 September. The title of the talk is “an audience with Nigel”. Admission is also free.

    • Wessex Man

      wonderful, you are a Lady, Lady Magdalene!

  • Daniel Maris

    More robust? The Tories are letting in 500,000 new immigrants every year. It’s a bit late to be discovering an interest in immigration control.

    The public may be stupid but they are not imbecilic. It will be obvious that Doily Cameron doesn’t believe in these policies he will be advocating.

    I am predicting (and have been for the last couple of years) that UKIP will get a minimum of 5% but probably closer to 10%. And that will indeed be a disaster for the Tories, especially in Tory marginals.

    • HookesLaw

      You put immigration on line 1 which shows your hysteria.
      515,000 people immigrated to the UK in the year ending June 2012, which is lower than the 589,000 for the year previously.
      The net figure is 163,000, down from 247,000.

      Some of the people coming into Britain are Britons coming back and some of the people leaving are former immigrants going back. For all sorts of reasons. Of the people who left the UK – 197,000 were non-British.

      The public are not stupid – I had better not tell you what you are.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Cameron said he wanted to reduce it to tens of thousands. 515,000 people is equivalent to three towns the size of Basingstoke.

        Many of those leaving are talented individuals sick of the direction the UK is heading. Many of those coming are benefits tourists and criminals.

        He has not done enough to tackle the problem and next year the brown stuff will hit the fan.

        • John Clegg

          Don’t mention Basingstoke.

      • Daniel Maris

        Where do you live Hooky? Are you another Massie, living in the green fields of the Borders or a similar bucolic idyll?

        As a Londoner, I can assure you that the effects of mass immigration (which have nothing to do with the mythical “net” figure) in this area are real and very negative – there is huge pressure on school places, on welfare, on housing, on transport.

      • Nick

        Stop lying or kidding yourself about immigration.
        No matter what you do or say,it’s a plain fact that there are too many people in the UK.

  • R2-D2

    It makes more sense to target floating voters in the centre, especially now that Labour has become openly socialist. A voter gained from Labour is worth two from UKIP. Tories should avoid any extreme positions and present themselves as the safe, moderate choice, as opposed to Labour who would put the recovery at risk with their reckless spending and socialist policies. Angela Merkel did not get her massive election victory by going on about immigration and human rights.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …those “floating voters” won’t leave the Millipede to vote for the 2 poshboys. You might as well book that today.

      • HookesLaw

        Reduced to class war now are we. How posh a school is Dulwich College.

        • Smithersjones2013

          So speaks he who owns the whole deck of racist cards

    • Smithersjones2013

      There is only one thing that matters as young Forsyth alludes too and that is that Cameron’s knee-jerk coalition with the Libdems reunited the left properly for the first time since probably 1979. It is that change in voting patterns that will decide the next election no matter how many so called ‘floating’ voters Cameron appeals to. He’s done and has been ever since 2010 and ironically he’s done by his own hand.

  • David Lindsay

    The message that UKIP supporters have no conceivable interest in “reunion” with the Conservative Party never, ever gets through to the media.

    But with Godfrey Bloom’s autobiography not published this week after all, he has alre4ady been pulled from Question Time.

    Have I Got News For You will have been recorded by now. Does anyone know if he was on it after all?

    And he is due on Any Questions. But somehow, one does rather doubt it.

    • Wessex Man

      Is this David Lindsay inside information, or David Linsay propaganda, or David Lindsay slow mud stirring or is it McBride in disguise or are you going to write a another book Dave?

  • roger

    UKIP is the Tory party I remember joining in 1967, the Conservative (& Unionist please) Party needs to get some right right ideas.

    • David Lindsay

      UKIP is the Tory party I remember joining in 1967

      In what possible way?

    • john p reid

      67 the year the tories were lead by Ted Heath ,known euro sceptic, and supporter of Enoch Powells racism,

  • Lady Magdalene

    We don’t want a “more robust” position on welfare, immigration, human rights and the EU.
    We want OUT of the EU. When we’ve got our Sovereignty and the right to govern our own country back, THEN we can sort out welfare, immigration and Human Rights.
    In 2010, UKIP offered Cameron a deal – not to stand against Conservative MPs who had signed Better Off Out. Cameron didn’t even bother responding – and he didn’t win the General Election.
    UKIP is no longer comprised almost entirely of disaffected Conservatives. We are attracting large numbers of ex Labour voters, a few LibDems and a significant number who have been so disaffected by LibLabCON that they haven’t voted for years.
    The time for a deal between Cameron’s CONservative and UKIP has passed. We want our country back …. and Cameron has made it abundantly clear that he is determined to keep us in the EU. He has also spent the past 5 years or so, continually insulting us.
    Why on earth would we want to help keep him in power?

  • Fred Smith

    It’s a mistake to see UKIP support as coming entirely from disaffected Conservatives.

    Of those who are disaffected Tories, don’t discount the Cameron factor. He seems to have gone out of his way to make very angry, people who might normally vote Conservative. That presents a dilemma for the Conservatives, because while Cameron is an obvious liability, they can’t very well dump him before the next General Election.

    One problem that Cameron has is that he simply isn’t trusted. This produces something of a difficulty in presenting new policies designed to woo lost support; no one would believe him anyway.

    • rupertstubbs

      As far as I can see, the only thing that Cameron has done to make (right wing) people “very angry” is to support the principle of gay marriage – something that most sane nations around the world are doing. What else has the poor chap done to deserve such ire? Especially when shackled to the untrustworthy (Boundary reform) Liberals?

      • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

        He did many things. The way he introduced gay marriage was wrong – by basically lying about his intentions – but that aside his whole attitude has been one of lies, evasions and snobbery.

        • HookesLaw

          What lies? it was in the manifesto. There was a free vote in parliament Tories were not whipped.
          The fact that you are so pathetically worked up by ‘gay marriage’ shows what a bigot you are – as your final words show.

          • Lady Magdalene

            3 days before the GE, Cameron was asked a direct question about whether he intended legislating for gay ‘marriage.’ And he said NO.

            • HookesLaw

              It was in the equalities manifesto and in that manifesto May pointed out Cameron has been a regular supporter of reclassifying partnerships as marriage. The manifesto said that parliament would have a chance to vote – it did. I believe that the tories were given a free vote whilst labour had a 3 line whip.

              • Lady Magdalene

                So why did he deny it – on air – just 3 days before the GE?
                Why did he ignore the wishes of his own backbenchers and the vast majority of his Party?
                Why did he unite with Miliband in order to ram it through the Commons with the support of Labour and a majority of his own MPs against?
                Why did he hold a blatantly biased ‘consultation’ in which the votes of anyone from around the world counted, but the combined 500,000 votes of a pro-traditional marriage campaign were classed as 1 vote?
                Why didn’t he accept that he didn’t really have a mandate and agree to put it prominently in the next Manifesto so the British people would know what they were voting for?
                He abused the privileges of power. And that deserves punishment, to encourage anyone else who might think of doing the same thing. Cameron learned that lesson over Iraq/Syria. Perhaps the next PM will learn this lesson.

                • HookesLaw

                  So you say. I cannot possibly comment. What was said in the manifesto was clear and also other Cameron statements.

                  The tories promised a vote for parliament to decide and they did. Tories had a free vote.Tory backbenchers were not ignored they had a free vote.

                  You are a sad person. Your hysteria is pathetic.

                • Lady Magdalene

                  You don’t seen to have any answers. Except resorting to insults (as usual).

              • Colonel Mustard

                This was all that was in the manifesto:-

                “We will also consider the case for changing the
                law to allow civil partnerships to be called and
                classified as marriage.”

                “Considering the case” hardly describes the way he suddenly rammed this policy through parliament. Nothing from May, nothing about parliament voting.

          • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

            Believing that the way gay marriage was introduced was wrong hardly counts as a fixation, nor does it make one a bigot. Don’t embarass yourself.

            • HookesLaw

              A promise in the manifesto for parliament to have a vote.
              A free vote for tory party.
              Its you who are an embarrassment.

              Its clear that the obsession on this exposes the UKIP loony crowd as a load of old bigots.
              Truth hurts? i cannot help that.

              • Colonel Mustard

                There is no promise of a vote in parliament or free vote in the manifesto. It just undertakes to “consider the case for”

            • Fred Smith

              Hooke’s Law has clearly been stretched beyond his elastic limits, not that they ever seemed to extend very far.

              The gay marriage business was a major mistake and certainly not a model of clear thinking. There were already civil partnerships which were accepted and there was little demand. The implementation appears to be a dog’s breakfast anyway and it saw another section of support disappear but it didn’t entice a counterbalancing set of support. It actually provoked a disproportionate reaction by drawing attention to something that wasn’t a problem until some people with strong convictions had their buttons determinedly pressed.

              So yes, there was something underhand about it and an assumption that the faithful would remain faithful no matter what. In other words a complete misunderstanding of and contempt for the faithful.

              On the theme of marriage, I do like the idea that previous Tory voters ought to support the party no matter what, like beaten wives returning to an abusive husband because it’s in some ill-defined way, their duty. In the interest’s of diversity I should point out that this ought to be expressed in gender neutral terms.

              • HookesLaw

                Sad obsessiveness about gay issues. Borderline hysterical I suggest.

                All voting is based on self interest. if you want Miliband and a Labour govt then you are free to vote whichever way you want.

                • Lady Magdalene

                  I don’t want Miliband and a Labour Government. But I AM free to vote whichever way I want. It’s the LibCONs who are getting hysterical as they have finally understood that when Cameron set out to pull the Conservative Party to the left and drive his core vote away, he gave UKIP the boost it needed.

                • Fred Smith

                  I couldn’t care less about gay issues. I was aware there were civil partnerships.

                  The thing I thought was remarkable as a political phenomenon was the way Cameron managed to drag something kicking and screaming, to the fore of attention.

                  I can vote any way I want? You really mean that? That’s a relief. I thought I was under some strange obligation to vote Conservative despite what they did.

                • HookesLaw

                  You can vote what you want and get the consequences.

                  Cameron/ the tories pursued a manifesto commitment – parliament had an opportunity to vote. The tories had a free vote.

          • Colonel Mustard

            He even lied about the civil liberties programme in the Coalition agreement. None of those things have been progressed. Instead we get mass surveillance and internet censorship. He is now busy bullying internet providers with his Mary Whitehouse gang outside the law. None of what he is up to on that front has been debated or approved in parliament. He is operating to classic Common Purpose techniques “beyond authority” and imposing his own values in areas that frankly don’t matter much.

          • Tom Tom

            In the Manifesto ? You are a blatant liar.

      • Fred Smith

        HS2, foreign aid, quack energy, the list goes on.

        The Cast Iron Promise was a huge mistake.

        Nonsense; the happiness index and The Big Society.

        Name calling; The Turnip Taliban, Fruitcakes etc.

        Actually, he seems to warm to being shackled to the LibDems.

        • HookesLaw

          A pretty pathetic and irrational list.

          There was a referendum promise during the Euro elections and the treaty was ratified after that. There was no referendum promise in the 2010 manifesto.
          What we now have is a clear commitment to renegotiate our relationship and then a referendum. This is an eminently sensible policy.

          We have had a cut in the EU budget. It was Blair who gave away half our rebate – yet the nutjobs would give back government to labour.

          Its been pretty well exposed what a load of idiots UKIP candidates are and the taliban jibe was not by Cameron or anyone ‘official’.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            You’re a UKIP plant. That’s the only possible explanation for you. Nobody with a brain would spout the inflammatory nonsense you do, which is clearly calculated to swell UKIP’s numbers.

            How much is brother Nige paying you, lad?

            • HookesLaw

              Ask Bloom about inflammatory nonsense.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …maybe you should ask that multiply-accused rapist you Camerloons cherish.

                • HookesLaw

                  Who is that? Who is ‘cherishing’ anyone? You become ever more contorted in your ignorant bile.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You, lad.

                  You Camerloons are cherishing that multiply-accused rapist.

                • HookesLaw

                  Who? I am not ‘cherishing’ anyone. If this is all you can ramble about you are even more pathetic than ever.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You, lad.

                  You and the rest of the Camerloons are cherishing a multiply-accused rapist.

                • HookesLaw

                  Repeating rubbish is still rubbish. Who is being ‘cherished’?

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  The multiply-accused rapist.

                  By you Camerloons.

                • HookesLaw

                  So you are afraid of libel then?
                  Sums you up lad. Childish.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  Nice dodge, lad.

                  You Camerloons cherish a multiply-accused rapist.

                  Remember that, as you flail and rant about others.

                • Wessex Man

                  This is getting better than Alas Smith and Jones!

          • Fred Smith

            HS2, seen as a waste of money and a vanity project.

            Increasing foreign aid, a perfectly reasonable argument can be made that development aid is not only ineffective and a waste of money, it’s positively damaging. Why the interest in increasing it?

            The CCA, probably the most useless and economically damaging action engaged in by the UK, including two world wars. Fully supported by Cameron.

            That’s the way I see the world.

            The Cast Iron Promise. He was perceived as making it and a good case can be made that he did make it and knew what the perception was. At least it was a huge mistake.

            Fruitcakes and the Turnip Taliban. It would have been far better to say nothing whatever his private opinions.

            UKIP is a mess and many of the people involved are clownish. Yes.

            So if people are prepared to vote for that shower, as is their right, rather than foam at the mouth and denounce them as idiots, wouldn’t the Conservatives do better to make their offering more attractive?

            • HookesLaw

              UKIP is a dustbin for protest. It is not a serious party and it is run for and by nutjobs. As an example the greens are just the same.Only hours before Bloom was thrown out the nutjobs here were singing his praises.

              Your carping on the ‘cast iron promise’ is purely speculative. There was no promise of a referendum in the 2010 maniifesto or in the election. The situation before Lisbon was ratified was quiote clear – the tories voted against in in parliament.
              You cannot just selectively quote.

              There is a clear intent on a referendum in 2017 and it will in all likelihood be in the manifesto for all to see.

              As Mr Lancashire says there is no pleasing committed UKIPers – I suggest that it is clearly because of their irrational extremism.

              • Fred Smith

                I suggest it’s because the Conservatives mainly, but also Labour and LibDems, have created a large and conveniently placed dustbin.

                • HookesLaw

                  Oh grow up. ‘Stop the world I want to get off’

                  How pathetic is that?

                • Fred Smith

                  I suggest it’s you who’s railing against a reality you don’t like so you come up with these trite sentences you imagine will be show stoppers.

              • Wessex Man

                bring me sunshine all the while!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Lady Magdalene

            No. WE haven’t had a cut in the EU Budget. WE are paying more.
            The miniscule ‘cut’ which the EU graciously deigned to grant to save Cameron’s embarrassment was achieved by paying ‘sweeteners’ (ie bribes) in order to get agreement.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              It was amusing that first time through on those EU “cuts”. It was supposed to be an increase of something over 3%, but the Cameroons “fought tenaciously” to bring it all the way down to “only” a 2.9% increase.

              Can you imagine the cynicism of those shysters? “What will the rubes back home bite on? I know, let’s kick it back down below 3%, for show, but by cracky no less than 2.9%. We’ll all be moving over to the EU shortly, and we have to feather that nest.”

        • sarah_13

          But you’d rather see Miliband do all the above you hate plus not even a discussion about eu referendum and Len Mccluskey in Downing Street??? I do hope you can reconsider, I think many very decent back bench mps will and are keeping Cameron walking a difficult path, as with Syria … But if labour win things will be terrible.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Then stop splitting the UKIP vote.

      • John Clegg

        I’ll tell you what Cameron has done to make me angry, he makes me angry because him and his ilk act like typical “metrosexuals” and have not one jot of an inkling what it’s like to live in the real world.

        Posh arrogant immature boys who have never had to do a proper job in their lives.

        Don’t ever ask me again why he makes me angry, Grrr!!!

      • Nick

        I’ll tell you.He’s allowed in hundreds of thousands more immigrants and failed to remove the illegals.
        He took us to war with Libya and tried to do so again with Syria.
        He sucks up to muslims for no good reason and he is removed from the real world…….ie,’We are all in it together’.

      • george

        I don’t think that sanity enters into it, Rupie baby. The principle of gay marriage is that civil partnerships aren’t enough because they’re not destructive enough of the existing polity, or of the West’s socio-emotional constitution. Gay marriage isn’t about celebration: it’s about trying to poke other people in the eye. You do understand that, don’t you?

  • Alex

    Sorry James, I think you are missing the point. Yes, the Conservatives can shuffle a bit to the right; it’ll pick up a few votes and lose a few others.
    But that constant lurching between policies to gain a few days good headlines is the problem, not the solution. What does the party stand for? What are the Conservative party’s core principles? What is it’s raison d’être.
    I doubt there’s a single person in party or country who could tell you. D.C. certainly couldn’t. And if he did he would have a different set a day later.

    • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

      Alan Clark, the great Tory diarist, said that true Tories understood the party to be “An Old Whore”.

      In other words, changing with the seasons in order to preserve power at any price. How right he was.

  • rupertstubbs

    The last thing the Tories need to do is lurch away from the centre.

    As the comments here show, making token gestures to UKIP will achieve little – they are not just rejecting Cameron (and the only political party to offer them a referendum on Europe, for heaven’s sake), they are rejecting politicians in general. Let them have their moment in the sun at the European Elections. They are the party of the protest vote, now.

    • Chris lancashire

      Absolutely spot on.

    • AnotherDaveB

      The Conservative MPs voted against a referendum in 2011. Why would anyone believe the same MPs when they say they will vote in favour of one in 2017?

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8847123/EU-referendum-how-the-MPs-voted.html

      • HookesLaw

        Cameron and the tories supported a private members bill to make a referendum a legal requirement in 2017.

        The vote you mention was based on the call by a petition. Indeed Graham Brady, then chairman of the 1922 committee argued against a three-line whip being run by the government, saying: “This is a backbench debate and there is no need for ministers to participate.”

        A back bench debate – ie one of no consequence merely a bit of half baked political chicanery.

        • Lady Magdalene

          That back bench debate – which you say is of no consequence – was in response to a petition signed by around 400,000 British voters calling for a Referendum on our enforced membership of the EU.
          According to you that is of “no consequence.” And you wonder why we don’t trust, believe or vote for your undemocratic Party of elite pro-EU Quislings.

          • HookesLaw

            it was a debate where the
            backbenchers said that it was not the place for a minister to speak – so how seriously are you to take such a debate.

            You are a crass hysteric. The tory party supported a private members bill to make a referendum in 2017 mandatory. Labour voted agaionst.

            So stop the pretence. Sadly its only pretence that can keep your prejudice going.
            The other stupid thing of course is that even if we were out of the EU we would still be ikn the single ,market and obeying single market rules and in order to get suchb a trade deal (if we left unilaterally) we would probably have to sign up tpo schengen (like Norway)

            Being out of the EU would be no different to being in and we could end up worse. Your whole stupid argument is based on a lie.
            And lets be clear – provided we could get a suitable result from negotiation I would not be bothered if we were out of the EU and in the EEA – but I am under no illusion that we would be any different. It would not be.

            • Lady Magdalene

              If being out of the EU would be no different to being in …. how could we end up worse?
              Leaving the EU and rejoining EFTA means that we don’t have to apply the EU’s regulations to our internal economy. Only around 8-9% of our whole economy is trade with the EU, yet 100% of our economy is loaded down with the EU’s job destroying regulations.
              But we don’t even have to stay in EFTA. Switzerland isn’t in EFTA. It has a separate Trade Treaty with the EU ….. and recently closed its borders to more immigration from Eastern Europe. Switzerland won’t be flooded with Romanians and Bulgarians in January.
              Iceland isn’t in the EU or EFTA it is a member of the EEA. It has just agreed a Trade Treaty with China.
              We would be vastly better off outside the EU.

        • AnotherDaveB

          It’s already a legal requirement to have a referendum when more powers are passed to the EU.

          This government has passed more powers to the EU, but there has not been a referendum.

          http://youtu.be/c3JnIw50zL8?t=8m44s

    • HookesLaw

      they are rejecting planet earth.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Well, their “protest vote” is set to have Call Me Dave’s head mounted on a spike in 19.5 months, apparently .

  • asalord

    Supporting Scottish independence would give a boost to right-wing parties in England.

    • HookesLaw

      Something a desperate Salmond is praying for.

  • Russell

    You are deluded Mr Forsyth if you believe threatening former Conservative supporters/voters who have moved to UKIP, and paid a membership fee will vote for the Conservatives out of fear of another disastrous Labour government.
    Bring it on…as Milibrain said.
    If it really is going to take another 5 years of UK destruction by Labour to convince at least 15% of labour voters that labour are an abomination and they need to withdraw all support, so be it.

    • sarah_13

      I think I have said this before in response to another comment, what makes you think it will just be 5 years of chaos? Once in they will be in it for the very long haul they will make sure of it. We will have no control of it, labour and Len will be embedding themselves and their many young place people with legislation and policies that will once and for all marginalise the right vote, they already have umpteen left wing place people heading charities giving credence to all manner of left wing opposition to all the cuts. My concern is that it’s cavalier to not act to stop such a dangerous labour administration, who once elected will be virtually impossible to remove.

      • Russell

        What a pity the Tories aren’t bringing forward a Bill to have an EU referendum in May 2015 at the same time as the election. If Labour vote it down, they would lose millions of voters. What a pity the Tories don’t at least attempt to bring in some UKIP policies now….but they won’t, and I do not want another Cameron wishy washy weak government under a threat of labour winning. I will vote for a party that has many policies/views/outlooks most similar to mine.

        • Tom Tom

          Why would you do that in 2015 after electing MEPs in 2014 ?

          • Russell

            To get out of the EU as quickly as possible, for the financial health of the UK. The MEP elections next year are just a means for the majority of the electorate to show current MP’s of all political parties our rejection and revulsion of our continued membership of this corrupt bureaucratic organisation which infringes on our human rights to have our own elected government determining laws and taxes on us the UK electorate.

    • HookesLaw

      Quite pathetic.
      For a start the damage done by Labour (quite probably involving closer integration with the EU) would far exceed the horrors you invent for a tory victory.

      The plain fact is that all the anti Tory / Cameron rhetoric is unadulterated hysteria.

      • sarah_13

        I wouldn’t say its hysteria I too have been disappointed with Cameron but I know the likes of Mrs thatcher are truly very rare, she really had it all, we have the leader we have. And much as I like Nigel Farage I feel that votes for him will be giving ed Miliband victory. Ed knows it hence his arrogant almost cocky ” come on then if you think your hard enough,” speech. He’s just cut off enough from any reality, in the theses of poltical theory to mess up the country in a very dramatic irreversible way.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Again, if that’s what worries you, and so much so, then you need to instruct the Cameroons to stop splitting the UKIP vote.

      • Wessex Man

        Come on Hooky, you know as well as I do that Miliband killed the Labour Party’s chance of Government with his pathetic Speech, it may have played well to the party faithful but frightened everybody else silly.

        The reason you and other card carrying Tories are shaking in your boots is that you know we UKip will hold the balance of power!

  • Noa

    Despite the recent efforts of conservatives, labour and their media trolls to demonise the fast growing UKIP it contunues to ride much higher in the polls and with the electorate tham the ‘low double digits’ claimed.
    Can the tories ‘neutralise’ it by a few crumbs from the ‘centrist’ table?

    It’s doubtful. Cameron’s party couln’t neutralise a cat.

  • Barakzai

    Carrot? Cameron’s departure – and some practical Conservatism – would help.

  • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

    Sorry, but this is typical Westminster bubble analysis.

    Many of us will never come back. As an ex-Tory member, Cameron’s behaviour has permanently alienated me from the party, and many like me.

    A lot of people like me who were from relatively modest backgrounds became Tories in the 1980s because we thought, naively, that Thatcher had changed the party from it’s cynical, aristocratic traditions of cowardly, reactive managerialism and preservation of elite interests. Now we see what fools we were.

    Once back in control of the party, the blue-blooded toffs like Maude, Cameron, Osborne et al. calculated that they could cast off their old supporters in favour of bright, shiny, trendy Metropolitans. That would be bad enough, but in order to show their conversion to Metropolitan Liberalism was genuine they deliberately and publicly rubbed our collective noses in it. Good, decent, long standing activists found themselves derided as the ‘Turnip Taliban’, for example.

    To us, the true face of Toryism was revealed as nothing more than a ‘Vicar Of Bray’: at heart a vehicle for a cynical elite to maintain power by pretending to be on the side of whatever group of people they felt they could co-opt in their service,use and then discard when no longer needed.

    Lots of my friends who have voted Tory all their lives feel completely humiliated. You don’t vote for someone who humiliates you, unless you have a psychological condition.

    It isn’t very Christian, but we want revenge, and that involves seeing the look of a deeply humiliated Cameron after he loses the next election and realises to his utter horror that he wasn’t, after all, “born to rule”.

    • MirthaTidville

      How right you are sir…..nail..hammer…head

    • Lady Magdalene

      Nicely put. That’s pretty much my position as well.

    • sarah_13

      I understand your point but my concern is Len Mccluskey and ed Milliband running the country like on the basis of Ed’s latest theoretical political thesis, andcgiving the vote to 16 year olds and allowing unite to set all the labour policies and further embedding us in Europe. For me ed Miliband is too dangerous to let anywhere near government.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …then you best tell the Camerloons to quit splitting the UKIP vote.

        • sarah_13

          I do think that was a great line from Farage, but for me the dangers of knowingly allowing a very dangerous, I would say almost delusional alternative is not something I can live with. I do hope you reconsider I like Nigel Farage a lot, but I will be voting Tory and hope to see a majority Tory govt so that we get our referendum, just as he is giving the scots and gave the lib dems theirs. and also we’ll continue with proper conservative policies.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …if you vote for the Cameroons, you should understand that Dave’s head will be mounted on a spike as a result of that vote.

            • sarah_13

              I doubt it and it would achieve nothing. I do think you display a little of the ” cut the nose to spite the face” approach, and though I too am disappointed with Cameron there are too many good quality Tory mp’s and only Farage and Nuttall of any quality whatsoever in UKIP. 2 mps do not make a party of government. There are many excellent back bench mps who are ps making Cameron take difficult decisions, like on Syria, we have an explicit referendum guarantee for 2017 so I do belief Nigel Farage has achieved a great deal, so thanks to Nigel we have our referendum. I shall vote Tory I hope you will too.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                You shouldn’t doubt it. In 2010, Dave couldn’t down the most despised man in the Western Hemisphere. And after years of failure, you think he’s going to do better now?

                No, don’t doubt it. Dave’s head is headed for a spike.

                And no, Dave would have to qualify as a nose before we could speak of cutting off noses to spite faces, although I could think of a couple other body parts he puts us mindful of. He won’t be missed, in any event, the socialist numpty.

                You should put energy into convincing the Cameroons to stop splitting the UKIP vote. That’s really the only choice available for them now. They can either face facts and change course, or watch Dave’s head get mounted on a spike, and many of his familiars will see the end of their political careers, in that case.

                • sarah_13

                  I’m not really concerned about Cameron’s head more preserving a reasonable basis from which to preserve and prevent the country from the ravages of ed miliband’s and Len mcluskey’s clutches. There is enough to preserve and build on in a Tory majority that I agree with not least the one thing many from UKIP have a chi even, a referendum in 2017, something labour will never give us. I shall vote Tory I hope you do reconsider.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You’re not getting it. There is zero chance for a Camerloonian majority.

                  Zero chance.

                  The people that will have Dave’s head mounted on a spike don’t recognize him as anything other than a match for the Millipedes you’re hysterical over. Can you now see why it is that Dave’s head is spike bound?

                  Those people don’t agree with you. Sharply so. Dave’s head will be on a spike, as a result of that disagreement. Only you can change this process flow diagram. Unless the Camerloons change, the outcome is a certainty.

                  Head, meet spike.

          • Fred Smith

            I think Cameron has destroyed the fear of letting Labour in.

            The Conservatives’ problem was to produce an offering which said there’s no such thing as a free lunch, but was fair and they should have defined fairness.

            They became trapped into offering a slightly different version of the free lunch.

          • John Clegg

            Sarah, are you 13 or has Cameron got 12 more of you?

      • HookesLaw

        Correct.
        BTW I am a lifelong tory whose father worked down the pit and I am certainly not taking lectures on Conservatism from any person from a self professed modest background.

        I am not a blue blood. But I have the nous to know that a political party needs to be a broad church and factionalism will merely present the nation to Miliband.
        Plus I am not a racist plus I am not homophobic plus I know that not being in the EU would not make one iota of difference to our relationship with the EU.

        • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

          Who on earth suggested you were racist or homophobic? Where did that come from? Are you feeling quite well?

          • Tom Tom

            You need to focus on the checklist and the ones he refused to tick

        • Alexandrovich

          “I know that not being in the EU would not make one iota of difference to our relationship with the EU.”
          So what’s your problem then?

        • sarah_13

          Yes I do agree that political parties do have to represent a broad array of opinions. I do think UKIP has many qualities I instinctively agree with but I have observed the party for many years and apart from Nigel’s excellent oratory I don’t see enough quite candidates to even make 2 mps. Even the UKIP candidate for Eastleigh when I listened to her I wasn’t impressed, for me Nigel has been brilliant I agree on lots but he isn’t a detail man and his gift is oratory and for me a referendum in 2017 is what I want, with a debate and renegotiating of all the social and free movement regulations and looking at ECHR with some real commitment. All those things I know will be achievable with a Tory majority, if labour get it would be a disaster.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            The Cameroons cannot get a majority, they can only watch Dave’s head get mounted on a spike. If you care about what you claim to care about, you should recognize all this, and stop splitting the UKIP vote.

          • Tom Tom

            “I do agree that political parties do have to represent a broad array of opinions”

            Then
            you clearly have no idea, they do not. Political Parties do NOT
            represent the Voters. They are self-serving elites run by money men and
            are like BBC – lots of programmes but noone is watching

          • Tom Tom

            “renegotiating of all the social and free movement regulations and looking at ECHR with some real commitment”

            Cannot be done. These are Intergovernmental Treaties and will NOT be renegotiated.

          • Wessex Man

            You’ve obviously have not been listening then, there are some very capable people at the top of the party, who have been on Question Time, Any Questions and quite a few Political programmes, it’s a lazy answer to say it’s all Farage.

            Be brave give democracy a chance vote UKip!

            • Craig Sweaton

              I was invited to the after conference reception for UKIP on Saturday and the range and quality of people in that room was staggering!
              Nigel himself said that he was looking to use the experience of people from all walks of life, in order to ensure the best and fairest possible government for the British people.

      • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

        After that red in tooth and law speech he made, i sympathise wih you, and doubtless many others will make the same calculation.

        However, it is precisely those tribal voting patterns that have done so much long term damage to the country.

        One of the saddest things about getting older is seeing the same patterns repeated time and time again. I am just old enough to remember the 70s: a rampant, zealous Labour movement versus a visionless, pusillaminous Tory party.

        Nothing changes, eh?

        We cannot allow our country to bring itself to its knees by continuing to vote negatively and allowing cynical political elites to coldly calculate that at the end of day we lack the balls to change and will just fall meekly back into line.

        Whatever it’s flaws UKIP does offer a chance to build something new from the ashes of the LibLabCon.

        • sarah_13

          I remember the 70’s too, I remember our school closing but the strikes and power cuts, thinking back on it people won’t believe it happened, but it did I I do not want it to happen again.

          Ed Miliband knows he only has to consolidate his 35 %, and with his left rhetoric he can appeal to all the disgruntled aggrieved fools. There are hundreds of excellent Tory mps, ones of great quality, they are the people I want to hold their seats. Cameron is giving us the referendum, just as he is giving the scots theirs and the lib dems got their pointless referendum . With a Tory majority we can finally draft and debate a bill of rights clear for the present times, continue welfare reforms and scrutiny of eu legislation whilst extricate ourselves from it with careful negotiation. Whatever Nigel says it will practically take some time but with perseverance it will be achieved.

          I will vote Tory, the prospect of labour is too dangerous for me not too. I hope you reconsider.

          • Hexhamgeezer

            But that is precisely the point. You will not be voting Tory. You say Labour is too dangerous but why? A ‘freeze’ on fuel costs for 18months? The media are desperately hyping up what are actually very small differences.

            The solution is long term – it couldn’t be anything else -but 1st of all; vote UKIP or any other party or spoil your vote. Do not endorse the LibLabCon. This will be a thousand mile journey which begins with a small step. Step 1, Do Not Endorse daveednick.

          • Tom Tom

            “There are hundreds of excellent Tory mps, ones of great quality,”

            Truly bizarre ! You surely don’t believe that ?

          • Normandee

            “Cameron is giving us the referendum,”

            How can you say that with any degree of confidence ? you cannot even tell me what the question will be. There are so many escape routes for the little he has offered, and remember, he has pledged to stay in “with every fibre of my being”. Does that sound like a man who is going to give a referendum he can change his mind on for any little reason. Even if he is cornered into giving one, the yes vote is going to have billions of taxpayers money spent on it, it will have the full support of the craven BBC, and all the other liers depending on it for their sinecures and huge pensions. Do not trust this man, better to put up with the pains of creating a new party and washing away the old corrupt system we have now.

            • sarah_13

              Yes I am very confident just as he promised the scot’s their referendum and the lib dems their pointless costly av referendum he will do what he explicitly has said. He has been honest about his position, I don’t agree with it but just as with Syria if he loses he will stick to it. What we can be sure of is if Ed Miliband gets in we won’t get a referendum, or an honest debate, we’ll have Len Mccluskey dictating policy with his European Union colleagues. That we can be sure of.

              • Normandee

                Sorry Sarah, but you are sadly naive about Cameron. The EU referendum is a completely different affair to Scotland and AV, on both of those he was in a very different position and almost fireproof. Scotland is not likely to leave the UK, and Clegg was never going to win with him throwing the weight of the conservatives behind it. EU is very much more serious and he is unlikely to risk a vote unless he knows he can win. As for Syria, Miliband reneged on him otherwise he would never have gone for a vote he couldn’t win. The man is a snake and cannot be trusted.

          • Craig Sweaton

            A vote for UKIP is exactly that. It’s not a vote to gift labour a win, in fact in the Labour “safe seat” where I live, people are desperate to try something new and UKIP is the party that people are interested in.
            In the North labour are losing alot of ground to ukip wherever they have a potential candidate. Up here we have to live with the consequences of their immigration policy and their lack of a voice on the issue is scaring voters away.

        • Tom Tom

          The 1970s resulted from Edward Heath and his bizarrely incompetent administration driving inflation through the roof, refusing to bail out businesses – Upper Clyde and Jimmy Reid and nationalising Rolls-Royce and Water. Driving the country into the EU, reorganising local government into a Commissars Feeding Frenzy, and driving the country to a 3-day week plus Decimal Currency. Was ever a government as provocatively disastrous as Edward Heath ? It imposed juge managerialism on the NHS and reversed its own Immigration Act to let in East African Asians.

      • John Clegg

        I agree with your sentiments BUT there does come a time when we all must stop voting negatively just to stop the other party getting in. If you believe in what Farage stands for, then vote for him. I will always vote nowadays where my heart is and it’s not with Cameron’s idea of conservatism.

        Be honest and true to yourself, vote for what you believe in. It’s really about time we all did.

        • sarah_13

          I vote for my consitituency mp, Nigel is a good orator but I don’t see him doing the pm’s role. There are hundreds of excellent Tory mps who I completely agree with, except for Nigel I really don’t think anyone else in UKIP is of the same caliber as say say dominic raab or peter hollobone, or peter lilley, or Sarah Wollaston…. For me Cameron presides of the cabinet and he is the leader who has to fight the election but he is being held to a steadier line by his mps than perhaps he would like but as with Syria the best outcome is Cameron front of house, with Nigel agitating from the side and back bench quality mps getting Cameron to do the right thing and also do the detail, something I haven’t yet seen from UKIP. I do hope you will reconsider.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            You should reconsider.

            If you don’t, you’ll merely be looking up at Dave’s head on a spike. It’s no more complex than that… spike or no spike.

          • george

            I don’t see him doing the pm’s role

            Why not? If Barry can do the president’s role, anyone can do virtually anything. The question is: should he? In Farage’s case, I think the answer is Yes.

          • John Clegg

            I couldn’t possibly, Sarah, the man has made too many politically stupid decisions. He’s a political lightweight, in fact my famous retriever’s got more political nous than that clot.

          • Normandee

            When the damn bursts you will see the people crossing over by the dust cloud they will raise, don’t vote for Farage, VOTE FOR UKIP, VOTE FOR CHANGE.

          • Craig Sweaton

            The whole idea of UKIP is to keep the professional politicians at bay and let normal people have their say. Being a professional means that they always look after themselves but rarely are they doing the best for the masses.
            It really is time for a change and ukip have some quality people who are willing to change their lives in order to help the country.
            How many times do you want the same tory/labour merry-go-round before you realise. …IT DOESN’T WORK!

        • george

          Bingo, J. C. That’s what it means to be a citizen in a genuine liberal democracy.

        • Craig Sweaton

          Exactly! If we don’t vote positively then we will always end up with something we don’t really want.

  • monty61

    If the Tories are serious about reuiniting the right they should ditch Cameron at first opportunity. Boris isn’t the answer either.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes. Dumping all things Cameroon would be the barest minimum requirement.

      Realistically, they’d have to dump Dave, Boy George, Boris, Mistress May the Queen of Darkness and Little Boy Gove, and break with the LD’s, in order to facilitate any bargain.

      • HookesLaw

        ‘Realistically’ – thats a joke coming from you.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …and the fact that you don’t understand what realistically must occur is the biggest reason Call Me Dave’s head will be mounted on a spike 19.5 months from now .

    • Fred Smith

      Yes but their problems go further than Cameron. He hasn’t appeared from nowhere and marched them off in a direction against their will and he isn’t one on his own. His half-baked ideas have been in aid of “de-toxifying the brand”. He’s merely succeeded in making it poisonous to a different set of people.

      I don’t believe they have any clear idea what they are about any more. They’re just a faction for getting into office.

      • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

        Always were, tbh. Just reverting to ancient type.

        • Fred Smith

          I wouldn’t argue against you very strongly.

          It’s probably that with a particularly shallow leader and after the marketing success of Nu Labour, which cowed them and influenced them to put form over substance, they are more transparent than before.

          Something else which has happened is that they’ve been very successfully apparently fence sitting on the question of the EU for years, “In Europe but not ruled by Europe”. In fact they are enthusiastic integrationists. This has mopped up anti-EU sentiment. It’s been a policy of calculated dishonesty.

          Now with events, they are being called on their position, which can either be in or out, and they are still trying to pretend to sit on the fence.

          • HookesLaw

            ‘a policy of calculated dishonesty’ – this sums up most of Labour’s policies and claims.

            • Fred Smith

              But most Conservative voters are inclined to dismiss Labour’s policies and claims as dishonest. There’s no difficulty there.

              The problem comes when natural Conservative voters see the Conservatives as pursuing calculated dishonesty, or little different to Labour and are disgusted. It also means that the fear of letting Labour in is taken away.

    • Lady Magdalene

      Owen Paterson looks pretty sound.

  • Sweary Expat

    I suspect the majority of those who have defected to UKIP will not return no matter what Cameron says. He blew his credibility with his “cast iron guarantee” and will never be trusted again. For many UKIP supporters there is no practical difference between a Cameron government and a Miliband one, save that the latter might prompt a move by the Conservative party back to its basic principles in time for the next election.

    Cameron is learning what happens when you make it clear to your core vote that you despise them, that you do not share their values or beliefs, and that you see them as expendable in the pursuit of others who will never support you.

    • Alexsandr

      I wont be voting for them because:-
      no EU referendum. why do we have to wait 4 years, why not now
      The gay marriage charade
      The total lack of ability to bring the defecit under control. Where is the smaller state, the bonfoire of quangos, the reigning on of government funded charities who then campaign against the government.
      The stealing of my SERPS pension.
      no boundary changes or tightening of the fraud riddled postal vote system.

      And no tax cuts, Thats what is needed to get things going

      • HookesLaw

        In other words you are irrational.
        The tax allowance has been put up quite significantlky and we see labour saying they are goint to reverse tory corporation tax cuts.

        This years deficit is going to un dershoot significantly. You are getting a referendum and there was no promise of one in the election manifesto.

        • Alexsandr

          tax allowance for basic rate payers has gone up but not for 40% tax payers. even labour say £60k doesnt make you rich
          The defecit will undershoot cos of growth, not by shrinking the government. When did big government become tory policy.
          And if you think we will get a referendum in 2017, even with a majority tory government, then your faith is endearing. Cos there will be a get out clause somewhere that will be used.

          • Alexsandr

            and even if they got policies right I still hate the identikit politicians that make up liblabcom

            • HookesLaw

              Lets face it you hate everybody. Hate is your totem.

          • Tom Tom

            SDLT is still 3% for houses > £250,000 and index-linked it would be a £780,000 threshold

        • Chris lancashire

          Sadly, you are wasting your time and I , for one, am resigned to the split in the vote leading to PM Miliband. Nothing that Cameron could do would ever satisfy the Ukippers and so they will vote for Farage et al in the sure and certain knowledge that it will allow a man as inadequate in his own way as Brown to take control of the country. That’s really showing the Con/Lib/lab, Camerloons, all the same/ won’t really let us have a referendum politicians.
          And after PM Miliband we can look forward to PM Farage with G Bloom as Home Secretary and anybody who can do long division ad Chancellor.

          • HookesLaw

            I do not believe you should be resigned to accepting the fatuous ignorance of the usual suspects. I am not sure that ignorance is the right word to describe the wilful invention of the past to justify the bazaar speculations on the present.

          • Fred Smith

            You might ask yourself how the Tories managed to miss an open goal at the last GE faced with Nu Labour, the problems of which were becoming obvious to even the most dim after three terms, and lead by Brown.

            Don’t say that was down to UKIP.

            Probably a bigger problem for the Conservatives are those former voters who can’t bring themselves to vote for them and so don’t vote.

            Is it your position that the Conservatives got everything right, but a perverse electorate decided not to vote for them for no good reason?

            • Chris lancashire

              Absolutely not but they got more right than they got wrong and the biggest reason they failed to get a majority was the stacked boundaries. Cameron’s greatest mistake was not to push AV for the Lords in exchange for a levelling of the playing field on boundaries.
              And what is the alternative?
              I know, it’s awful when you look at the menu and decide you don’t like anything on it but, awfully sorry, good old Nige is never going to make it to No. 10 and highly unlikely to make it even as far as Westminster.

              • HookesLaw

                Tories won 97 seats – when was the last time they did that?
                As for Lords reform – we can thank utterly thick tory backbenchers for that fiasco and the loss of boundary reform.

                Cameron should have promised the abolition of the Lords if anything.

                • Tom Tom

                  How could Cameron propose abolishing the Lords without taking down his
                  father in law’s title ? How could he keep the Monarch afloat without
                  the Lords ? How could he keep Mps loyal ? The House of Lords ran the
                  country until the mid-19th Century and is core of the Privy Council
                  which is the institution that runs thev country – the Cabinet is a
                  Committee of the Privy Council

                • Tom Tom

                  Labour gained 145 seats in 1997 so Miliband might take heart. as for
                  Tories, well Heath added 77 seats in 1970 and he was Cameron’s role
                  model. Labour gained 239 in 1945 which just goes to show the Tories were
                  complacent because they used to be in power most of the time, now they
                  can only manage to partner LibDems

              • Fred Smith

                Sorry, a good try is nowhere.

                Now you might ask why, when faced with the perfectly rational choice of David Cameron’s Conservatives or not voting, or wanting more of the same, or voting UKIP, people were so perverse as not to give a ringing endorsement.

                Could be people have become more irrational, or it could just be that what they were offering wasn’t sufficiently convincing.

                The Conservatives were a fairly rubbish opposition, conned into supporting the Iraq War, Sharing the Proceeds of Growth – need I go on? They weren’t a principled opposition. For a long time it looked as if the newspapers were the main opposition.

                • HookesLaw

                  That is not even a good try.

                • Fred Smith

                  So you explain why we have this messy coalition when we were faced with the Tories’ message of shining sanity, which any reasonable person, or at least enough reasonable people, ought to have found sufficient to support, but clearly didn’t

                  Could it just be they muffed it? The polls started to decline after the Cast Iron Promise was exposed as being worthless. Yes, I know Tories like to cry foul over that and refer to the small print, but the fact is that they are saddled with it and it really wasn’t necessary.

            • Tom Tom

              It was down to Gordon Brown who outplayed Cameron totally. Brown saved his party from devastating defeat because he had a couple of neophytes and he simply outplayed them

              • Wessex Man

                er what other universe are you living in?

              • Craig Sweaton

                Gordon (backstabber) Brown saved his party?
                I’ll just have half of whatever you’ve been on!

                • Tom Tom

                  Labour should have been destroyed in 2010. From Aug 2007 to Aug 2009 Tories had a large lead over Labour which crashed around 12 April 2010. as libDems spiked upwards because Cameron wanted Clegg in TV Debates to please Steve Hilton. If the 22 April polls after Tv Debates had been the election result Labour would have been the largest party.

                • Craig Sweaton

                  Labour were never going to be destroyed, just as they won’t be destroyed this time around. They have too strong a core of Tory (posh boy) haters to ever be totally finished off in an election.
                  The same band of brothers that are mirrored in the Tory party who are scared to death of people on benefits, creeping into their leafy villages and destroying their quiet rural life.
                  Unfortunately, everyone is so afraid of “letting the other lot in” that few people are willing to look at the alternatives.

          • Alexandrovich

            ” Nothing that Cameron could do would ever satisfy the Ukippers…”
            Has he tried anything yet?

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Yes he has. Haven’t you noticed, you knuckle dragging bigoted racist nutjob?

              • HookesLaw

                Er.. looking in the mikrror again?

            • HookesLaw

              Yiu show how blind and bigoted yoy are. The preserve of the thick is not confined to the far left – it is alive and well on the far right.
              Mr Lancashire is quite right – you are lost in a haze of your own prejudice.

            • Chris lancashire

              Actually, he’s tried one or two things but I fully understand you haven’t noticed.

              • Alexandrovich

                No, I haven’t noticed. Those ‘one or two things’ are…?

                • Chris lancashire

                  Absolutely nothing. As far as you are concerned.

                • Chris lancashire

                  You’ve rather proved my point.

            • Craig Sweaton

              Yes he has….he tries to pilfer our policies and then he waters them down to make them palatable to the libs, just in case.

          • george

            Never be resigned to anything that hasn’t happened and might not — especially in politics. Marc Antony thought he’d beaten Julius Caesar to Cleopatra’s ahems and a golden tomorrow, and look what happened to him.

            Churchill — yeah, that one: ‘Deserve Victory’.

          • Wessex Man

            Keep up or stop trying to spread propaganda, it’s been in all the Media that Godfrey Boolm is no longer a member of UKip, you Tories are truly desperate!

          • gerontius

            Sounds like an improvement.

        • AnotherDaveB

          Taxation has increased under this government. They put up VAT on day one.

          http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/331505/austerity-uk-edition-part-2-veronique-de-rugy

          • Tom Tom

            just as in 1979

        • Tom Tom

          Yes I am in favour of raising Corporation Tax and offsetting it with Investment Tax Credits

    • george

      Dear Sweaty,
      Is that you in the photy?
      Yours truly,
      Georgie

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