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Why does David Cameron refuse to admit that the terrorist attack in Nairobi is linked to Islam?

23 September 2013

3:51 PM

23 September 2013

3:51 PM

Do you know the name of Muhammed’s mother? No, me neither. I can manage the names of two of his wives and his Christian concubine, plus his daughter, but not his mother. The matter was, however, of more than academic interest when gunmen took over the Westgate shopping centre in Nairobi. According to witnesses, members of the public were lined up and then gunned down if they failed to name the mother of the founder of Islam or recite verses from the Koran. Those lucky enough to be able to speak Arabic — possibly passages from the Koran — were let go. The rest were fair game.

Now, whatever else you can say about these individuals, I think we can agree, can’t we, that religion looms quite large in their world view? I mean, if knowledge of the Koran or Muhammaed’s immediate family is a reason for them to shoot people or not, then I think we can assume that the Islamic faith is, rightly or wrongly, a factor in what they’re doing.

So why was it, do you think, that David Cameron, in making a statement today about the killings, observed:

‘These appalling terrorist attacks that take place where the perpetrators claim they do it in the name of a religion – they don’t. They do it in the name of terror, violence and extremism and their warped view of the world. They don’t represent Islam or Muslims in Britain or anywhere else in the world.’

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But that’s precisely what these men didn’t do. They didn’t declare that their motivation was terror, violence or unspecified extremism. What they did mention, besides references to mujahedeen and kaffirs, if the Twitter messages allegedly from them are authentic, is the presence of Kenyan soldiers in Somalia. ‘The attack at Westgate mall,’ went one of them, ‘is just a very tiny fraction of what Muslims in Somalia experience at the hands of Kenyan invaders.’ So, it may well be that they are Somali patriots resentful at the presence of African Union troops in their country, but this is not to exclude religion from the picture, since they themselves go out of their way to make a point of it.

And while it is undoubtedly true that their actions were, are, abhorrent to the great majority of Muslims in Britain and elsewhere — certainly all the ones I know — it’s really not the case, is it, that they don’t represent Islam or Muslims anywhere in the world. They represent, to their own satisfaction, a strand of Islam which is very unwelcome to many moderate Muslims but which does have a basis in the religion and their understanding of it.

Al Shabaab — ‘the youth’ — was originally the radical youth wing of Somalia’s Union of Islamic Courts in 2006. They fought Ethiopian forces that were backing the then-government. And in the areas under its control they imposed an extreme version of Sharia law to the point of stoning to death women accused of adultery and amputating the hands of thieves. This sort of thing is frowned on in moderate Muslim states, but whatever else you can say about it, it is intended to conform to the strictest precepts of Islam — there is an account in one reasonably reputable source about Muhammad approving the stoning of an adulteress and her lover.

So why does the PM pretend otherwise? Really we’re back in post 7/7 territory, when the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, declared that Islamic terrorism would henceforth be labelled ‘anti-Islamic activity’. Certainly, the actions of extremists had a grave effect on ordinary Muslims, but this was by any reckoning an abuse of language. It failed to catch on.

If the prime minister had merely observed that the actions of the Kenyan jihadists are abhorrent to the great majority of Muslims and certainly the great majority of British Muslims, no one would have disagreed. Indeed, we can take it as read, I think, that his remarks were motivated by an honourable wish to disassociate moderate Muslims from the actions of men whose actions revolt them, and to discourage those who might wish to take out their indignation about the Kenyan atrocities on some unfortunate newsagent in Hackney. But to say that al Shabaab and its representatives in the Westgate shopping mall don’t represent Muslims or Islam anywhere in the world is simply untrue and if we try to deal with jihadis on the basis that they are unspecified extremists rather than people with a very pronounced religious ideology, it’s not really adding to our understanding of what has happened or our ability to prevent something similar happening here.

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Show comments
  • http://www.patriotdirect.org/ John Turner
  • Ahmed muktar

    The answer for you kafir is to revert. Then all will be well…

  • EwanUzarmi

    He’s at home watching the football. What? oh sorry I thought you said “where’s your berk at?”

  • mightymark

    The slightly odd thing about the attitude rightly criticised here is that much Government policy clearly contradicts it. I’m not thinking espescially of the fact that but for problems in the Muslim world virtually our entire armed forces (bar the ceremonial units) could put their feet up – though that is a point worth remembering.

    For example we have anti youth radicalisation policies. Now I may have missed something but I hadn’t noticed that this was directed at Baptist or Hindu youth. Then there are other policies designed to ward off disaffection by minority communities – but these are not directed at the Jews or Armenians. Or what about “engagement” with the clerical figures of such communities – but they don’t seem to be Greek Orthodox priests.

    Now, I’ll concede it may be that the denial involved in policy here may have noble motives – to stop feelings of alienation among Muslims who are not Jihadists or violent. However it directly contradicts what Government does across a range of policies. Ultimately something has to give somewhere.

  • Joseph Flannagan

    If anyone wants to see a true picture of what British muslims are thinking on this please go to the MDL ( muslim defence league ) Facebook site. You will be appalled at the venom and hatred openly spouted , threats against the EDL and the absolute joy and celebration of killings and murder. And they have the audacity to criticise the EDL as bigots and racists .

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Is anyone giving the Mail story of the terrorists committing atrocities against hostages much credence? Of is the Spectator along with the rest or the UK MSM sitting on the gory details in the interests of “community cohesion”? We wouldn`t want to bring on the race riots, now would we? Would we…
    Jack, the only Brit in the village

  • Daniel Maris

    Baroness Warsi (she who must be obeyed) had given him an earful over the phone five minutes before he made his statement?

  • BoiledCabbage

    he needs the musslim vote , doh!

  • http://www.stfual.com/ StFual

    There i was swotting up on my Koran so I know the answers to get me out of the mall. But apparently I don’t need to as Cameron says its nothing to do with Islam.

    • Daniel Maris

      Yep, just tell them “I empathise with your poverty, your sense of dispossesssion and your alternative value system. I welcome diversity. In fact I once met a Muslim at a dinner party in Notting Hill, well it was a few years back…he was a doctor and I thought he was really fascinating…” That should do the trick.

  • Daniel Maris

    OMG I just heard a BBC journalist – Frank Gardner – refer to “religious terrorism” !!!

    Of course the poor guy was almost killed by Islamic terrorists so I guess they allowed him that freedom to air that illicit thought.

  • T.A

    Britain is famous with their traditional diplomacy. You cannot expect to hear the truth blatantly from a politician, especially from a British politician. As I know there is 5% Muslim population in Britain. In my opinion, stating the fact that it is a terrorist attact for Islam would only create social conflicts in UK and radicalize the Muslim population(as if they are not radical enough now). If you remember there was a guy who cut a soldier’s head at the middle of London. Why would he encourage racists in Britain, radicalise Muslims ? I think it is the best attitude to keep the country peaceful for now.

    • mark

      Its a typical muslim ploy, lie, to say that tackling islam and its evil lying nature causes muslims to be radicalised.

      A real muslim does evil things as taught in the quran, its not racist to point it out. Its what islam teaches.

      The best option is for people that are aware of the evil nature of islam and muslims (every single one lies to disguise islam and its actual teachings – thus there are no moderate muslims).

      Only by more people waking up to the real danger and subsequent horrific blood baths if left too late to take action.

      Enough people find out the facts instead of lies, our leadership can not afford to be so cowardly and treasonous.

      Its not feasable that they are all ignorant of islam, so its either cowardice or bribery.

      • T.A

        Who says it is not a typical muslim ploy ,it is not evil nature of islam ect.Considering I am from a muslim country, I strongly agree with you in many ways. I even think that some of muslims are not sincere when they condemn terrorism. If there is a critism about their prophet or belief you can see the protests on street. Now where are the real peaceful muslim people who condenms these terrorist attacks! Why they do not protest them strongly who disgrace their religion…What I am saying is simple, for a PM he should not state the truth out loud if there is a risk of some retarded can commit a crime and damage innocent people.

      • Daniel Maris

        I agree. If Sharia law was effectively banned in the UK on the basis of the European Court of Human Rights declaration that it is incompatible with human rights, then that would give many Muslims pause for thought. Pretending, as does Babble-on Cameron that Sharia is compatible with democracy, simply faciltates radicalisation.

  • Mike EY

    “… when the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, declared that Islamic
    terrorism would henceforth be labelled ‘anti-Islamic activity’.
    Certainly, the actions of extremists had a grave effect on ordinary
    Muslims, but this was by any reckoning an abuse of language. It failed
    to catch on.”

    This is a balanced, real look on the situation, and i bet that it does catch on, and i hope it does with you. No self proclaimed Islamist supports terrorism.

    • mark

      Islam teaches terrorism as any study of the quran, hadiths and sira shows.

      Muhamad was the first muslim terrorist, he also said that he had been made victorious with terror.

      So which is it, are you just repeating what muslims have told you without bothering to check it out’? (to them lying to disguis islam is a holy work).

      Or repeating what other gullable people think having themselves been deceived?

      Or are the you typical muslim, trying deception.

      • Mike EY

        You should know that its a matter of interpretation as any holy scriptures are. There are people out there radicalising Islamist’s to be violent, and there are people keeping true to peaceful Islamist values.

        There are political benefits to having a violent group of Muslims. And there are also benefits to have a group of christians believing god is external and not internal so that they pray to exterior higher powers instead of internal. Again political.

        • crosscop

          “there are people keeping true to peaceful Islamist values.”
          Ever heard of the word “oxymoron”?

          • Mike EY

            You watch too much news

        • mark

          more taqqiya from you.

          There are no peacefull muslim values to non muslims

  • AL MORAN

    MORON! Because this could easily have been staged! You are so dumb! It could be some NATION trying to “prove” that the terrorist are still “awake”. THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN ISLAM and those killers in NAIROBI.

    • Daz K

      “THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN ISLAM and those killers in NAIROBI.”

      Apart from the FACT that they told us?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqPIZIAZX-k

    • mark

      Typical lying muslim.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      You`re angry. You must be wrong.

  • Daz K

    I have a Muslim work colleague who I can talk quite frankly to about global events, he doesn’t instantly take offense and is pretty open minded about 80% of subjects we discuss, however when I say to him that people in his faith must face up and admit they have a problem with the doctrines of martyrdom and Jihad he will not accept a word of it, and jumps straight into pre-programmed rants about Drones, Iraq and Zionists.

    It is so frustrating, he refuses to see any link between his faith and the orgy of violence we see in the Muslim world (and beyond). Our foreign policy and unwillingness to criticise Israeli settlers hasn’t helped, I admit to him, but he will never meet me half way in the discussion. He looks for conspiracy theories (Malala Yousafzai was a CIA agent, the BBC are controlled from Israel etc), what concerns me is his opinions are mainstream amongst many young Muslims in the UK. Until these people see that they have an issue within their communities, things are only going to get worse.

    • mark

      It’s not an issue in their communities, ITS ISLAM.

      As to your israeli settlers comment, you need to do a bit more research it seems… though i understand that since all muslims lie about the actual situation, others, even supposedly learned, quote them thinking its true…

      • Daz K

        Do you not believe there are Jewish settlers attempting to expand onto Palestinian lands in order to bring back their Messiah?

        Just as some Muslims wish to spread the caliphate and bring back their 12th Imam.

        It seems like it is you who needs to do a little more research.

        • mark

          it’s not palestinian land

          in fact the whole palestine/palestinian thing is an intentional lie by muslims and their ignorant parrotts.

          The word philistine was given by the romans when they ruled israel as an insult to the jews, its root meaning is ‘foreign invaders’

          Its a word that only ever applied to the jews.

          But of course the term foreign invaders, suits islam exactlyas does LIARS.

    • Verk

      Why do you talk to a muslim? I have lived in muslim countries before and even then I stayed well away from them, interacting only when necessary. Because when you do attempt interaction, it is only a matter of time before their bullshit starts – oh the jews, oh the zionists, oh the gays, oh the west, oh idolatry…. Blah blah blah….

  • Bob Hutton

    The Dutch MP, Geert Wilders, said that he has nothing against individual Muslims but Islam, as an ideology, promotes violence. He was absolutely right.

    Islam, as an ideology, is bloodthirsty and barbaric. For Cameron to pretend otherwise is extremely naïve.

    • Daniel Maris

      Not naive. Cameron will have been well briefed on the contents of the Koran and other texts considered holy by Muslims.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Let`s see; airport? Too much security, and it`s been done.
    Train station? That`s a thought, but too spread out and too many escape routes.
    Shopping mall? Plenty of potential victims including foreigners. OK Mustapha you`re going shopping. Plans and photos. How many security guards and when is it busiest?
    Face it, up-market shopping malls in third-world countries, popular with foreigners make tempting targets. Keep this in mind Britisher pals.

    • Daniel Maris

      We shouldn’t discuss these ideas. Jihadists will be listening in and will pay attention. Actually I can think of two or three much better ideas than those but I choose not to air them publicly, or indeed privately. Keep it to yourself.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Gimme a break. Where`s your sense of humour, Infidel?

        • Toby Esterházy

          You really a nasty piece of foreign work, aren’t you?

  • Treebrain

    When has David Cameron ever spoken out in support of the Syrian Christians murdered by Sunni Muslim fanatics in Syria?

    He actually advocates aiding the rebels including foreign jihadis and al-Qaeda affiliates, the very people who killed the US ambassador in Libya and who the West is currently fighting in Afghanistan.

    • Fasdunkle

      probably on a promise for a few directorships with gulf companies

    • Daniel Maris

      I know – Christocide is aided by Cameron who backs the opposition in Syria, which includes Al Queda.

  • Mark Frost

    There’s no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim’. You either follow/preach/live by the religion, or you don’t. If there is such a thing as a moderate muslim, then i, and the rest of the world are waiting for them to condemn the actions of those in Kenya. I’m still waiting a fair few months later for those ‘moderates’ to address the Lee Rigby murder. I imagine i’ll be waiting a long time before any substantial action is taken. Thank you, Brown, Blair and Cameron for swamping this country with people that hold complete contempt against its indigenous inhabitants.

  • crosscop

    “Why does David Cameron refuse to admit that the terrorist attack in Nairobi is linked to Islam?”

    Probably because he has been bought and sold by the Saudis. The recent Telegraph article revealing that the Saudis tried to bribe and threaten Vladimir Putin over his stance on Syria. Putin wouldn’t play ball – but they will have succeeded with these tactics elsewhere.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

  • bvdees

    its called “appeasement” Mr. Cameron, and it never works! Not all Muslims are terrorists but virtually all terrorists are Muslim. There’s a clue there.

  • sacala

    There is a concerted effort by politicians, media and Muslim representatives throughout Europe to portray Islam as a religion like any other. For the most part it’s a fairly successful campaign as few people outside the faith take time to dig deeper into the religion or question the motives.

    The propoganda is also helped by the fact that the most well-informed critics of Islam are kept well away from the media. This is often to avoid causing any offence, especially in light of the retribution that inevitably follows public criticism of Islam.

    The likes of Robert Spencer, an authority on Islam, was banned from entering Britain last year, in spite of the fact that he has only ever quoted verbatim from the sacred texts. Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (all ex-Muslims) are rarely given a voice in the mainstream media.

    • crosscop

      The debate that Spencer had with an imam on BBC Asian Radio was a hoot!

      The imam was left bleating “But this is his field!” when Spencer consistently showed he knew far more about Islam that the so-called Islamic scholar! Well worth listening to – even the host couldn’t believe it.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnO-EGYFfFs

  • Roger Coates

    Just the outcome they where after…hatred.

  • Agrippina

    Unless and until we realise that the families of these extremists will have to be deported, thugs like these will continue. Earlier this year the press wrote about Ibrahim al-Mazwagi a brit who died in Syria. He said on Channel4 News (look it up, still up on web), he had spoken to his mother here in Nth London and told her he was off on Ops, and she said ‘make sure that you’re not at the back, go to the front’.

    What sort of mother encourages, incites their child to go and fight and die in the warped belief that he is a martyr. Why haven’t the police interviewed and charged that parent and got rid of the rest of the family as their presence here is not conducive to the good of our country.

    It is the only way that these men will stop and think twice about going off to do these violent acts. They are content to die in the warped belief system they have taken on board. They do not want their families deported back to the muslim countries they hail from and then we may have peace in the West. Elderly grannies, aunts, sisters etc walking miles in the heat to get water from a well, no benefits, no nhs, they will not want to inflict these conditions on their families.

    Similarly at an Old Bailey trial a couple of years ago, the pakistani accused was talking about his attendance at training in camps in Pakistan given by the security police of that country. Overnight his family in Pakistan was visited by the police and he refused to give further evidence the following day.

  • Nick

    Cameron like Tony Idiot Blair is a natural born apologetic idiot.
    No use to man.No use to woman.No use to animal.
    Just a natural born idiot.

  • Ricky Strong

    ‘Why does David Cameron refuse to admit that the terrorist attack in Nairobi is linked to Islam”?

    As far as I can tell it’s because this once great nation left its balls and its identity on the battlefields of France. We have become an apologetic nation, ashamed of our past and uncertain of our future. We no longer have the eloquent speeches of Sir Churchill or the raw truths of Enoch Powell, instead we have career politicians who sully the very essence of a democracy and legal system that took within this country many years and many lives to build.

    • ArchiePonsonby

      Well said, that man! A point of view which I have held for years!

    • Nekosan

      Make that Sir Winston Churchill and I will support everything you say.

      • Ricky Strong

        Good point, if I am to mention the great man best I do it correctly.

        • Daniel Maris

          You’ll have a very long list of names if you do it really properly. You should have told Nekosan to p off. If you were a true Brit you would have.

    • Daniel Maris

      A true brit called “Ricky”? Slightly improbable.

      • Ricky Strong

        Name perhaps not but family tree on fathers side traced back to before the Norman invasion, still working on my mothers side but so far back to the 1600’s.

        • Dougie Mitchell

          nice both sides of my family date back to 1066 😉 mitchell and dawkins wont be long till they change the flag not gd

          • Daniel Maris

            Both sides of my family date back to 500AD and before…like everyone else on the planet…

            • Dougie Mitchell

              then fair play to ya send me ur address and ill send u a prize in the post :0

    • avi15

      We have created a perfect system in which the mediocrities in power prevent those with balls from doing anything to remedy the situation. This is accomplished – if that is the right word – either through self-censorship of the media and political correctness or through the courts (e.g. the banning of Robert Spencer, misuse of the public order act). Basically, as a society, we’re going down in flames and the terrorists know this.

  • Captain Caustic

    Cameron; oleaginous waxy faced
    cadaver who doesn’t know he’s dead yet. Whilst deranged casualties of
    the single most repugnant religious invention in the galaxy go about
    ‘street dawah’ in Kenya with Kalashnikovs, instantly introducing
    unbelievers to the mercy of their vile god Allah- the cadaver Cameron goes into denial about a religion whose further casualties in Syria, busy cutting off heads to entertain villagers and their children is actually considering arming these same
    deranged ‘Islamistas’ who have nothing to so with Islam. Cameron, duplicitous
    dead and disgusting.

    Leave a message…

  • Bill_der_Berg

    When Sir Humphrey drafted the PM’s statement, his aim was to avoid offending muslim voters and, of course, important allies like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States.

  • FrankS

    Why did he not confine himself to condemning the atrocity? If other Mohammedans wish to disassociate themselves, let them do so.

    • stag

      Well, I rather think he should have been brave enough to name the cause, which everyone knows is islamic fundamentalism. He should have condemned both the act and the poisonous ideology that inspired it.

      Which he did up to a point – but then made an awkward attempt to say that Islamic fundamentalism has nothing to do with Islam. By which, obviously, he means ‘true’ Islam.

      And there’s the rub! What *is* the ‘true’ Islam? Does Mr Cameron profess to know? If so, how? Has he put in the hard hours of study that would entitle him to an opinion? Personally, I would rather take lessons from a genuine scholar such as Robert Spencer, who deals in evidence, not in slogans and flabby banalities.

  • MikeDLN

    The writer was doing quite well until the bit where she wrote “If the prime minister had merely observed that the actions of the Kenyan
    jihadists are abhorrent to the great majority of Muslims and certainly
    the great majority of British Muslims, no one would have disagreed.”

    You are wrong Ms McDonagh: I suggest that most would disagree. We have seen no evidence that there is such a thing as a “moderate muslim”, and increasing evidence of muslims everywhere asserting their growing strength. Even down to your friendly veil-wearing hospital staff …

    • stag

      I must take issue with that. It has become a truism, for some critics of Islam, that ‘there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim’. But there plainly is. Sure, their theological grounding is shaky to say the least – but they plainly exist.
      Tarek Fatah would be an example. Between him and Osama bin Laden, there are those like Tariq Ramadan, who whisper sweet nothings in the ears of credulous Westerners, but whose hearts really belong elsewhere.
      It is difficult to decide how many, among Muslims who ‘seem’ to have integrated successfully into Western society, have really and truly turned their backs on the primitive morality of the desert.
      But it is pretty clear, at any rate, that *some* have. I can’t imagine Baroness Wasri baying for infidel blood at any time in the near or distant future.

      • crosscop

        Warsi would be there with the rest if the time was right. The Greek Cypriots probably said something similar about their “moderate Muslim” neighbours before this happened –

        ‘They were making announcements each night in the village… They were calling the men to go to the church… “Those who want to rape the daughters of the priest, come now!” they were saying. My father was angry and was telling me to get inside the house and remain there… 30 of them,40 of them would go to rape the girls inside the church… They kept the priest there to watch… Now, no one pointed a gun to their heads to do this. These were the ordinary men of the village that you see every day… Later the Red Cross or some other organisation came to the village to take the girls. The girls were
        brought outside on stretchers; they were covered in blood and they were taken away. I remember those announcements, people going round the houses and saying,“Who wants to come tonight?” Now if we told these stories, imagine how a10-year-old boy who loves his chubby grandfather and finds out that he had been part of the raping of the girls in the church, would feel… How his world will be
        crushed if he finds out that in fact his grandfather had killed seven or eight persons.’

        http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/those-who-want-to-rape-daughters-of.html

        • stag

          A horrifying tale. Let’s assume it is true: what does it prove? That there are literally *no* moderate Muslims?
          Nothing of the sort. You are quite simply wrong.

          • crosscop

            It proves that people you think are your friends and neighbours can turn on you in an instant and do the most appalling things – especially when their religion justifies the appalling things. Islam actually justifies the rape of captured non-Muslim women. Mohammad did it and allowed his followers to do the same. Read the Hadith.
            As for “moderate Muslims,” I can only ask :”Moderate in relation to what?” All Muslims believe that a man who murdered, raped, robbed and tortured was the “Perfect Man” – a man they should emulate. All Muslims believe that homosexuals, adulterers, apostates and blasphemers should be punished – and many believe they should be killed. Mainstream Islam is not “moderate.”

          • Treaclebeak

            “That there are literally *no* moderate Muslims?”

            Of course not, however they’re obviously not the majority, otherwise majority Moslem countries wouldn’t be such as they are, brutal, chaotic and oppressive.

      • Daniel Maris

        Therein lies the problem. Is there a “moderate Scientologist”? No doubt there is…but they have only become moderate by abandoning original Scientology teachings and practice.

  • Karen Hobson

    Theres no such thing as a ‘moderate muslim’ you either read the koran and follow its rules or you dont . Moderate muslims breed while the rest of them slay their opponents with pleasure, increasing the chances of domination over a non-muslim population-its not rocket science

  • sarah_13

    I have just read that the Israelis have been helping the kenyan’s get the hostages out. It seems to me that once you can name the enemy you have a better chance of dealing with them and saving people from them.

  • crosscop

    Cameron – ‘These appalling terrorist attacks that take place where the perpetrators claim they do it in the name of a religion – they don’t. They do it in the name of terror, violence and extremism and their warped view of the world. They don’t represent Islam or Muslims in Britain or anywhere else in the world.’

    Koran 5:33 – “Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.”

    The Koran certainly fits the bill if you’re a fan of “terror, violence and extremism” and have a “warped view of the world.” And that’s not surprising when the man who dreamt up this appalling religion was a 7th Century version of Charles Manson. In fact, the biggest difference between Charlie Manson and Mohammad is that Mohammad thought that the Archangel Gabriel was sending him instructions to kill and Charlie thought it was the Beatles.

  • Ehross

    It would be interesting to know how many Baptists were involved in this slaughter by the PORKERS

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “Why does David Cameron refuse to admit that the terrorist attack in Nairobi is linked to Islam?”
    Possibly because there are alternative media whispers that Israel was behind it. But never let it be said that I would disseminate half-baked rumour.

    • Erictheowl

      Wondered how long it would be before somebody came up with that suggestion.

    • sarah_13

      Give it a rest, what a disgrace.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        A lot of governments have it in for Somalia, particularly the United States of Torture. Remember Mogadishu, “Black Hawk Down”? International piracy on the high seas? But to cases; Israeli owned
        that shopping mall, Israeli Special Forces are on the ground. How much of a heads up do you need? The Iran via Syria MO has been switched to Iran via Somalia. Smell up and wake the coffee. You’re too naive to be let out alone. 
Repeat after me, “The government is my enemy. Governments lie. That’s all governments, all the time.
” And while you’re at it, carefully study those YouTube clips purportedly showing victims of the chemical weapons attack, particularly the children. There’s at least one “dead” kid (the one in the yellow top) that keeps moving around. You know, I could grow old and
        grey waiting for the UK MSM to grow a backbone.

        Jack, Japan Alps

  • Augustus

    “They don’t represent Islam or Muslims in Britain or anywhere else in the world.”

    In that case how welcoming and heart warming it would be to read an article from a ‘tolerant’ Muslim imam, or a Muslim councillor in Britain, one who is supposed to represent true Islam, expressing horror at this atrocity, and actually condemning Islamic terrorist organizations which aspire to seal their religious occupation of countries with bloodshed in order to cement the Islamization of their inhabitants.

    • stag

      The Muslims in Britain – not all, but most – tend to do that; what we need is Muslims in the heartlands to start doing it. We need unequivocal condemnations from scholars at Al Azhar university in Cairo and other influential schools across the islamic world. We need Islamic leaders to utterly condemn these attacks, as well as attacks on Christians in Pakistan, and back up their words with deeds. Only then will I start to think Islam might be changing. Until then, the Muslim Council of Great Britain, Baroness Wasri, and whoever else, speak only for themselves.

      • mark

        I take it you know nothing about the 4 styles of lying used by muslims to deceive non muslims about islam, what their mainstream books teach, islams evil historym, agenda etc.

        To them its a holy work.

  • Waltermorgan

    There is a worrying trend in Britain on the whole not to really call a spade a spade when it comes to clerical fascists. We need to be clear that those murdering people in Kenya, Yemen and Pakistan in recent days as well as in Mali and Nigeria of late, never mind Afghanistan and Iraq are not “rebels” or as regrettably referred to on BBC today this morning “militants” they are Islamic Terrorists. It is both right and clear that this was how they were described on French TV this afternoon. Even in Syria there is more than enough evidence that genuine rebels fighting Assad are joined by considerable numbers of well armed Islamist Terrorists. Everybody needs to be clear as to the precise nature of the problem so that everything possible can be done to defeat medievalist barbarians by all necessary means – not just military but social, cultural and economic as well.

    • Mynydd

      We are not allowed to call Islamist rebels in Syria terrorists because that’s what al-Asadd calls them. Any way they are not really bad medievalist barbarians, otherwise why would Mr Cameron/Hague want to arm them.

  • James Strong

    I want to look at what Ms. McDonagh wrote about this attack being abhorrent to muslims, ‘certainly all the ones I know’ .
    I suspect she knows educated, Westernised people born of muslim parents.
    I suspect that they are, at best, half-practising muslims.
    The true believers of the RoP are very unlikely to mix with people like Ms. McDonagh, but even if they do we must remember that they are encouraged to deceive non-muslims if that benefits their religion.
    The true believers of the RoP are very likely to support the killing of non-muslims.
    How much evidence do we need.
    They’ve done it in Kenya, and almost simultaneously they’ve done it at a church in Pakistan.
    And they tell us why they do it.
    Why do some people still refuse to believe them?

  • Melanie Hall

    because he’s a bloody idiot. time for change.

  • HookesLaw

    Another hyusterical article, a dog whistle designed to whip up the usual suspects into a frenzey.
    Cameron said the attacks did not represent Islam and they do not. McDonaugh is splitting hairs in her attempts to throw mud. They represent the views of Islamist nutjobs and they are designed to whip up hysteria with our own home grown right wing nutjobs. Judging from McDonaugh’s comments they have succeeded.

    • Curnonsky

      On what authority is Cameron lecturing on Islamic theology? And what is your evidence that the attackers are motivated by a desire to whip up hysteria among right-wing British nutjobs? Why not address the issues raised in the article instead of engaging in the usual ad hominem?

      • Bill_der_Berg

        “….the attackers are motivated by a desire to whip up hysteria among right-wing British nutjobs?”

        I should think that the real nutjobs are not at all displeased by attacks of this kind.

        However, if HookesLaw is right, then it is rather flattering that the nothing-to-to-with-Islamists should care so much about opinion in this country. It shows how wrong Putin was when he described GB as a small island that nobody listen to.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Petra-Thompson/100000036809170 Petra Thompson

      “They represent the views of Islamist nutjobs”

      They represent the views of Mohammed. As anyone who has read the Koran and The Life of Mohammed knows.

    • Alexandrovich

      O’Grady says the attacks do not represent Islam, therefore they do not.
      Don’t you ever feel a teensy weensy bit embarrassed?

    • mark

      They do what the founder nutjob did, to the letter.

      He, to them is the ultimate example to follow.

      Which is why 97% of world terrorism is islam.

      Muslim quickly make up the majority of prisoners verses their actual % of population.

      Increase in number of rapes, again vastly over – represented by such a small % of population. (sweden for example, 1 in 4 non muslim woman can now expect to be raped by a muslim).

      In islam, everything foul, corrupt, perverted, criminal, depraved and evil is a holy work to advance islam.

      But then what can you expect when allah is none other than satan and even tells them so in the quran. (The best of deceivers).

  • Tom Tom

    Why does Cameron profess to know what motivates Samantha Lewthwaite and her friends ? I do suspect Cameron knows much more about this matter than he reveals publicly, and wonder just how much advance warning he had of this “terrorist” incident…or was it just SIS and the GCC who were in on the planning ? We seem to have a close association with Prince Bandar and his Saudi-sponsored wild bunch rampaging across Africa and The Caucasus and Central Asia. Maybe Cameron doesn’t think Islam is involved, but the guys with the guns and grenades DO….so where does that leave the ever-so chillaxed Unbelieving Anglican ?

    • ArchiePonsonby

      As a traitor to our country, as was obvious the first time he opened his PR orientated, devious, spinning mouth!

  • Jez

    “So why does the PM pretend otherwise?”

    Votes, a cynically deep rooted damage limitation reflex, a slow realization of dread catching up with him, a future Britain totally divided between a crumbling Christian identity and violently expanding Islamic militant tidal-wave- being blamed on him (et al), holding off the inevitable (until he’s cashing it in at somewhere like Morgan Chase etc), excellent training, advice from out of touch zealots…….. possibly. To name a few.

    • Warren Raymond

      “The chief weapon in the quiver of all Islamist expansionist movements, is the absolute necessity to keep victims largely unaware of the actual theology plotting their demise. To complete this deception, a large body of ‘moderates’ continue to spew such ridiculous claims as “Islam means Peace” thereby keeping non-Muslims from actually reading the Qur’an, the Sira, the Hadith, or actually looking into the past 1400 years of history. Islamists also deny or dismiss the concept of ‘abrogation’, which is the universal intra-Islamic method of replacing slightly more tolerable aspects of the religion in favor of more violent demands for Muslims to slay and subdue infidels”

  • Chris lancashire

    Why on earth are you deliberately misinterpreting what Cameron said? His crystal clear point – with which you may disagree – is that whilst claiming to represent Islam these terrorists do not.

    • http://www.facebook.com/martin.adamson.75 Martin Adamson

      The absurdity, which neither you nor Cameron can apparently see, is that Cameron seems to think it is up to him to decide who is a muslim and who is not. As it happens, there are many procedures within Islam itself for deciding precisely this question. We often hear of them being used by prominent Muslim authorities to declare that the Ahmadis, the Druze, the Alawis and so on are not considered to be “true muslims”. And yet we never hear of these same procedures being used to declare that Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab etc are not “true muslims”.

      • Chris lancashire

        I think you missed the point.

        • stag

          Cameron stated categorically that these people do not represent Islam anywhere in the world. That is simply not true. In many places, there are significant numbers of Muslims who will feel quite well represented by these despicable terrorists. That, I felt, was the main thrust of the article, and it was a just criticism.

      • Tom Tom

        Cameron tries to deny the Islam that Western Intelligence Services have been using as a weapon to destabilise Russia and China – and that is weaponised by the CIA. Just why did we fund and arm the Taliban to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and overturn the secular Najibullah regime which gave equal rights to women….. Najibullah is said to have been castrated by the Taliban, and he was
        dragged behind a truck in the streets of Kabul before being publicly
        hanged.

        • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

          follow the white horse

    • Alexsandr

      But they clearly do.

      • Chris lancashire

        Probably so.

    • Tom Tom

      I don’t think British soldiers in Afghanistan represent British public or that Cameron represents the British public but other people do……it is not for Cameron to say what men with guns in a Nairobi Shopping Mall are prepared to die for…….it certainly isn’t gay marriage or global warming – they think it is Islam and the fundamental actions that Mohammed engaged in when he beheaded 800 Jews at Medina in 625AD

    • Cath Sinclair

      Of course they do – they are following the Quoran to the letter!!

    • MikeDLN

      Unfortunately, Chris, it becomes more and more clear that these “terrorists”, and their brethren far and wide, are the true representatives of the religion of islam.

  • Pootles

    Do the moderate Muslims go to different mosques from the Islamists? Most of us from a Christian heritage background in the UK have a reasonable idea about different denominations among the Christian ‘community’, but what of mosques? Until it is transparent what is preached and encouraged in UK mosques, no more should be built. And we could probably do with a complete ban on further Muslim immigration – it might inconvenience the ‘moderates’, but this is beginning to look like a war.

    • Tom Tom

      The mosques you refer to are paid for with Saudi money. Saudi money lubricates The City of London and its PR lobbyists

      • Pootles

        Yup. I agree. The Saudi government is a very nasty thing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Petra-Thompson/100000036809170 Petra Thompson

      “Do the moderate Muslims go to different mosques from the Islamists?”

      When the BBC was lying and covering up for the murder of Lee Rigby, they did a report from a mosque in Woolwich. As soon as the imam started to criticise the killers, about 30% of the muslims got up and left the mosque.

      The BBC reporter did not even comment on their actions.

      • Pootles

        Yes, this is the sort of thing that really does need to be out in the open.

    • Mynydd

      I would go further and close down all mosques in this country until the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia allows the building of Churches in their country.
      I am sure the congregation of a Christian church would know, and report to the police, if any of its members were extremist’s plotting a Crusade to murder Muslims in the name of God and Jesus Christ.

      • ArchiePonsonby

        Now you’re talking!

      • Ezekiel Lamb

        Islam is indeed {according to St John’s definition} the Antichrist, To say this latest atrocity is nothing to do with Islam is a nonsense, were there no Islam we would not be having this conversation. As for the mainstream medias description of Al Shebaab as militants,fighters, gunmen ,etc it is a final indignation for the poor innocent victims of these beasts, Gog & Magog would be more appropiate

  • WatTylersGhost

    David Cameron, bless him, is trying to make sure that the inevitable growing conflict between Islam and the rest of Britain does not turn really nasty on his watch. But like most problems, the longer one refuses to address them the worse the consequences when the dung finally hits the fan.

    On this, as on so many issues, Cameron prefers to lie rather than to trust the British people with the truth (EU referrendum, immigration, Syria, debt etc etc). But we just don’t believe him any more.

    • manonthebus

      Whatever one’s views, David Cameron’s responsibility towards the people of this country includes ensuring that all honest men and women may go about their business in peace and security. We don’t need to hang on his every word, but he cannot say what many people think because it would do more harm than good.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Petra-Thompson/100000036809170 Petra Thompson

        Except it isn’t just him. It’s all of them. No MP will speak the truth. Nor will the vast majority of journalists or academics.

        If the truth about islamic fundamentalism had been addressed in 1989 with the Salman Rushdie affair, we would not now have a population of 3 million (or more) muslims in Britain.

        The problem has been manifest for 25 years. And in that time the muslim population has gone up by 250%

        • WatTylersGhost

          And when has the resident population ever been asked if this was what they wanted? And politicians wonder why we are so p*ssed off about it.

          • Craig Yates

            Resident population can’t be that bothered they keep electing Marxist traitors every single election without fail.

            • ArchiePonsonby

              Spot-on! As I keep repeating – and will-continue to do – if you don’t approve of what’s going on, STOP VOTING FOR THE POLITICAL PARTIES WHO DO!!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            I`m not advocating voting Conservative. Just stop voting Labour. You know, those wonderful people that brought you multiculturalism.

    • Tom Tom

      Cameron has to think of that offshore account and just how upset the saudis will be if he is not pliable

    • Mynydd

      In 2 years there will be a general election, with it being just around the corner you cannot expect Mr Cameron to say a harsh word, or take action when it could cost him a vote. Never forget Mr Cameron/Hague wanted to arm their brother Islamist in Syria. Finally, lie is Mr Cameron’s middle name remember during a Political Party Broadcast he said we are paying down the debt, when he knew it was going up.

    • greggf

      Well Wat, Cameron et al cannot be expected to do anything different.
      Having imported what has become a growing problem all our politicians are hoping, piously, that Islam may “adjust” to democracy as for example, they claim, has happened in the Balkans. This is the on-message position that “everyone” should adopt because the alternatives of deportation, internment or conversion are simply unthinkable……

      But expecting that Islam may be democratized and renounce sharia, or that an early reformation will transpire is wishful thinking; although the example of the Balkans is apt because it will simply balkanize cities and towns in the UK – and the rest of Europe where it has a presence.

      It may need something akin to the SS to rid us of the menace.

  • http://www.facebook.com/martin.adamson.75 Martin Adamson

    If the actions of jihadists are abhorrent to the great majority of British Muslims they are certainly being very discreet in their abhorrence.

    • William Haworth

      We await, as we have for the past 12 years, the Million Muslim March in the UK, in which Muslims across the country march through the cities in which they live chanting, “Islamist terrorism, not in my name”.

    • Tom Tom

      They are scared and keep their heads down – and wonder just how much freedom the British regime allows Samantha Lewthwaite and why

    • HookesLaw

      The Muslim Council of Britain condemned the Woolich attack

      And in Kenya
      ‘ “We Muslim leaders gathered here today condemn in the strongest terms the attack on peace loving Kenyans and our international guests who have chosen to live and work in Kenya.” the Supreme council of Kenya Muslims said ‘
      http://www.onislam.net/english/news/africa/464585-kenya-muslims-condemn-nairobi-attack.html

      • Craig Yates

        Did any leader of a political party ever go and pay their respects to drummer Rigby other than Nick Griffin? Cameron fucked off on holiday and I don’t recall any other leader going to lay a wreath. Nick Clegg did claim for a wreath he bought for remembrance day, on his expenses though.

    • Muslim Comments

      Does every single Muslim have to answer to these fucktards?

      • Dogsnob

        It would not really matter if they did. We all know what they want and we know they regard lying as a perfectly acceptable tool to get it.

      • Warren Raymond

        They don’t. They just follow the teachings of the meshugga prophet of Islam and his dirty books.

        Just like you, my little Muslim Brother.

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