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What’s the difference between Romanian immigrants and second home owners? Well…

15 September 2013

15 September 2013

Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants to this country are ‘just like’ British people who have second homes in France, according to the government’s Crime Prevention minister, Jeremy Browne.

He is absolutely right, except for a small number of really quite insignificant differences. One being that the Romanians and Bulgarians don’t own homes here. The second being that Brits with second homes in France are rarely in receipt of that country’s welfare benefits. The third being that Brits in France are rarely a matter of concern for that country’s Crime Prevention minister.  And the fourth being that Brits with second homes in France do not usually set up a shanty town of carrier bags and makeshift tents somewhere along the Champs-Élysées and pretend they are looking for ‘labouring’ work.

But other than that, Jeremy is quite correct, and we should be grateful for such a valuable contribution to the debate.


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  • Teodora Lazo

    Great Article. Thanks for the info. Does anyone know where I can find a blank MI FOC 115?

  • Stef

    The ones in the picture are not Romanian, the’re gypsies.

  • http://perthairporthotels.net.au/ calvin kelly

    oh they don’t want the picture… everyone needs a shelter and the rich should think about this. Most of them work so hard but it’s not enough. They need help.

  • Turnip R Greasemonkey

    Romania gets its name from Roman occupation, before which it was called ‘Dacia’.

    Not relevant, but mildy interesting…

  • Adrian

    you are all fucking morrons……stupid british fucks

    • Bonkim

      Morons – Adrian your frustration is showing.

  • Ahmed muktar

    I must warn you all that your comments constitute hate speech! You are not allowed to say such awful things about ethnic minorities.

  • Picquet

    Shame on you for your cynicism. The man is a Government Minister and therefore a speaker of the Truth.
    And they seriously wonder why politicians are held in such contempt.

  • justejudexultionis

    How dare British people seek to defend their centuries-old way of life and property that they spent decades working for!

  • Agrippina

    EU funds – Romania received 33.5 Euro Billions – 2007-2013 it will receive an 18% increase -2014-2020. During the last 4 years Romania and Bulgaria have both had funds frozen due to corruption & poor management of EU monies. IMF, EU & World Bank gave Romania 20 billion euros May 2009 and a further 5 billion euros March 2011. Romania builds churches every 3 days you can visit them along the dirt track and potholed roads. They are building the tallest cathedral in sth eastern Europe. The govt gives 100 million euros for priests salaries and millions more for the building and renovation of churches. The churches in turn tell the faithful who to vote for. The useless EU should tell them they cannot fully join Jan 2014 – they have still got major probs with corruption and misuse of funds and that may spur them to clean up their act. We do not want anymore Eastern European immigrants here, stay and sort out your own countries. Sources FT, Economist, BBC & Intl Bus News.

  • Lawrence

    The Brits got rid of their Gypsies (English Gypsies) by murdering them, shipping them to other countries such as Norway, Australia, the US or Caribbean as slaves. There was even a law which stated that by simply being a Gypsy you were punishable by death.

    So please understand that the UK (apart from the Irish travellers) was not a clean Gypsy-free country before the more recent Eastern European Rroma.

    It’s a shaming part of Britain’s history as they are human beings but The English have murdered or enslaved many if not most of them. Please look up the English Gypsies or Romanichals history.

  • roger

    Can we please stop using the words Romanian and Gypsy , most Balkan and Central European word like ‘Zigani’ to identify the problem group.

    • Eddie

      Yes, and those countries make sure they make that group – which is well know for petty crime and also more serious crime – unwelcome.
      Sadly, we in Britain worship a great god called diversity, which means we get lectured daily by the nannies of misplaced multiculturalism about how we must welcome these people to our country and celebrate their aforementioned diversity – even if they are gypsy beggars.

      Oh and we also have to give them council flats and houses above native Brits because these gypsies have so many children, and they can claim benefits, and even child benefit from children not even here; oh and they can get free education and healthcare (let’s phone home and invite every disabled gypsy over then – esp those created by close cousin marriage – and great grandma too and anyone with kidney and heart problems because the NHS paid for by these thick British idiots will pay for everything for free!).

      I think that those who rule over us – from the platitude-peddling politicians to the hectoring up-itself BBC to the local councils staffed by mediocrities and mopers to the schools and colleges staffed by the ovine and absurd – simply do not have a clue how much most British people hate what is happening to their country, and how the aforementioned traitors are destroying what is, after all, our ancestral home – and using our taxpayers’ money to ruin it too.

      Our rules hate us. Make no mistake about it. When it all blows up I hope they are the first to face the consequences of their policies.

  • Laura Topan

    These are gypsies that come here to beg they are not genuine Romanians! We as Romanians are ashamed of sharing our names with them but what can we do? They were born there…..

  • edlancey

    In Canada in 2012 two thirds of Ur-Pikies aka “Roma” who lied their way into asylum in Canada were (caught) thieving – which suggests an impressive 67% crime clean-up rate for the Mounties. (And before the usual suspects ask for references – I have them but google them yourselves you P’s o S).

  • mightymark

    My sternest warning to beware of Romanian gypsies was delivered with some passion by my (presumably non gypsy) Romanian builder.

  • TenPillocksInARoom

    This is all a crying shame. I know many Romanians and Bulgarians and have nothing but good to say for them. I’m not saying that Liddle is entirely wrong, but it is genuinely sad that things have come to this.

    • edlancey

      If you actually did know “many Romanians and Bulgarians” you would know that they /really/ have nothing good to say about “Roma”, based on a lifetime of observation – otherwise you’re just a lying shill.

      • TenPillocksInARoom

        Completely confused why my reply to this was moderated, it was more PC than @edlancey:disqus’s comment. Anyway the gist is that I have more interesting things to talk to my friends about!

        • edlancey

          Then how the /bleep/ do you know what they think about them then ? you lying PoS

          • TenPillocksInARoom

            That ad hominem reply is totally out of order, and I shall flag it for deletion.

            On the substance, I have no absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I have nothing but good to say of my Romanian and Bulgarian friends and do not speak to them at length about the Roma, although I do get the impression of tensions in the countries.

            I completely fail to see what I have said here that is so objectionable, or that indicates lying, or that I am a PoS as you so delicately put it.

            Also, you might want to watch the blood pressure … all this misplaced anger can’t be doing it any good.

  • Nick

    Well I do have a second home but it’s not in France.And the difference from me and that shower of s–t in the article image?……Well I don’t look like any of them.

  • Eddie

    Well Romanians don’t pay taxes on their second homes.
    Oh wait, nor do Brits.
    Time to tax all second homes – to make prices fall (which is fair) and ensure local people can afford property over Islingtonistas.
    We need more taxes aimed at extravagance so we can lower taxes on those with one home and modest means.
    That is fair.

  • Claudiu Arseniu

    Those in the picture are not Romanians, you fucking cretin, those are gypsies. Romanians are fucking WHITE, kind of like an Englishman that was not crossbred with a Paki, damn idiots, and also don’t usually sit on the pavement, unless they are fucking drunk beyond sanity. Stop being so fucking backwards fucked retarded and at least have the decency of finding a real picture of the subject.

    The real question here is how the fuck most of the UK is so retarded that they don’t even know Romanians do not look like someone that just landed from Mumbai, and keep insisting with these pictures. It’s like talking about Norwegians and show a pictures of some dudes from Congo.

    • Fasdunkle

      If they have romanian citizenship they are romanians

      • Claudiu Arseniu

        It’s like saying “If your mother is a women, then she must be a whore”. Are you so fucking retarded?

        • Fasdunkle

          I hope you aren’t representative of romanians

  • Regislea

    How can any politician be such a prat on so many levels?

    If he genuinely believes that (bad enough in itself), why would he be stupid enough to say it to anyone (not even his wife – Lib-Dems have form there, eh Chris?), let alone in public?

    Actually I just found the answer courtesy of Wikipedia – he studied (wait for it) politics at university, and (steady in the ranks) worked in PR!!!!!!

    So a man of the world then.

  • Earthly Delights

    The photo does not show Romanians but Gypsies (Rroma people). They are different from the Romanians, genetically and culturally and they were slaves (robi) until 1856.
    Genetic findings in 2012 suggest the Gypsies originated in northwest India, migrated as a group and belong to Y DNA Haplogroup H (M69) – found in India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, Iran, Central Asia, and Arabia and it is associated with RRoma population.
    In general, the overall estimates for the frequencies of Y-DNA haplogroups in Romania runs as follows: 22.2% I or I2; 20.4% R1a; 13% R1b; 7.4% E; 5.6% J; 5.6% G; ~3.2% H
    – Haplogroup I2 (S31) (Central and Southeast Europe, Sardinia)
    – Haplogroup R1a is currently found in Slavic populations of Eastern Europe.
    – Haplogroup R1b is the most common in European populations.
    – Haplogroup H (M69) is associated with RRoma (Romani, Gypsy) population
    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

  • thanksdellingpole

    Tell me someone saw the little girl giving the finger at the back.

    • Alexandrovich

      Oh yes. I believe it’s one of the first things they’re taught as their compadres help them alight from the container.

  • Răzvan Constantin Rapcea

    I wrote a comment before that has been erased. There is no need to insult anyone because whomever put this article together displaying a photo of Romani people together with a title about Romanians and Bulgarians is not fooling anyone. The intent is clear no matter how much you want to censor comments pointing at it. I just dont understand how such articles are allowed to be written and posted on the internet in a “professional” work place.

    • Agrippina

      It’s called freedom of speech, stop banging on about the photograph a side issue, concentrate on the language of Jeremy Browne Crime Prevention Minister. You may not know it but the UK is the most densely populated country in europe and we are fed up with immigration and a return to Dickensian England complete with ghettos and overcrowding and having to pay for and accommodate half the world in this tiny island.

    • Mark Cooper

      In response to you and several other commentors, we don’t actually care about the precise ethnicity of these people, we merely want them to fuck off back where they came from.

      • Guest

        fuck you

      • cezar211091 .

        that would be india,my fellow european,

      • cezar211091 .

        but fuck you,anyway.

  • Răzvan Constantin Rapcea

    I am both Romanian and Canadian, and from this viewpoint shame on yourselves racist and closed-minded Europeans who generalize and categorize an entire people or population for the deeds of a few. Mentioning Romanians and Bulgarians while displaying a photo of Gypsies, very smart. I bet that is what you think anyway. Only makes you look bad in the end. Here’s a quick link for you to learn who Gypsies are and where they come from:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people#Origins

    With this article you insulted both Romanians and Gypsies, so in the very best case you deserve a prize for insulting everybody. Don’t know how you can hold a job with such skill in your country.

    Romania only has more gypsies because Romania was always more hospitable, more humane and less extreme than other countries at controlling their minorities. Here’s what i mean by that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_in_the_Czech_Republic

    and also:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

    • James R

      Sorry chum. You can’t be both Romanian and Canadian.

      • Răzvan Constantin Rapcea

        All i can say is, lots of racist people around here. Not very welcoming of other cultures. I am happy i live in Canada, because such attitudes are not tolerated here. Much you need to learn.

    • Daniel Maris

      You’re living in a country stolen from its Native American inhabitants and you say you don’t want to discriminate against anyone. Why not give it back to the Native Americans?

      • Fergus Pickering

        Oh don’t be silly. Who are the original inhabitants of England? I have no idea and neither do you. I gather the Native Americans came from outside. The country truly belongs to the bison.

        • Noa

          The many millions of vibrant immigrants whose arrival we all celebrate will be happy to take their, and your share, of Britain in due course.

  • Răzvan Constantin Rapcea

    Your title is Romanian and Bulgarian yet you display a photo of gypsy. Every educated person knows the difference between Europe’s minority and Romanian and Bulgarian. You are just making a fool of yourself. Your level of intelligence is clearly displayed and what you try to convey between the lines only further more reinforces your stupidity,

    • Bonkim

      Romania and Bulgaria was/is the homeland of a large section of European Roma people regardless of their historic origins, and they migrate Westwards as they have been, and still are persecuted across Europe. Gypsies, and travellers are not popular in Britain too and perhaps the author thought drawing parallels with a hated community will somehow enhance the topic under discussion – that of unwanted immigrants from Eastern Europe – the message is for all Romanians and Bulgarians – not just Gypsies.

      Not sure if many people would like to sleep on the streets of Britain or adopt nomadic ways in British society on foot unless their lot was a lot worse in their homeland. Perhaps a case for Britain to take their case to the European council.

      Both James R, and Razvan appear to be mixed up on nationality and citizenship rules – as citizens of Romania and Bulgaria, the Gypsies are allowed to travel to Britain and not arrive in containers, and the Laws of the UK allow dual citizenship as do those of Canada – now nationality does not necessarily relate to ethnicity although some bigots wish it did. If non-Gypsy Romanians and Bulgarians some how feel insulted by comparison with Gypsies, doubt if they would be welcomed any more – the message is for all people from the poorer parts of Europe, regardless of ethnicity.

    • Fasdunkle

      Don’t gypsys have a nationality?

      • cezar211091 .

        no,they are indians

      • cezar211091 .

        what you mean is called citizenship

  • TRAV1S

    Yep and Brits with holiday homes don’t send their children out to beg.

    • Bonkim

      They don’t have to, to survive.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Why can’t gypsies work? Is it against their religion?

        • Bonkim

          What makes you think they don’t? They do and quite industrious although illiteracy and rough living hamper many.

          Those living on legal camp-sites where provided pay council tax, NI, income tax, etc, and their youngsters get on O.K in local schools, etc.

          Gypsies are more church-going the settled folk.

  • Agrippina

    2nd home buyers, it would be great if they just buy one home instead of expecting social housing. As to the romanians complaining they are gypsies, nothing to do with them. They are romanian gypsies and if your useless govts had gone about making your economy successful and employing and educating said citizens they may have contributed to your country. Instead of encouraging their criminal activities. Shuffling them off to others is not the solution.

    Your useless govts keep building churches instead of infrastructure with all the accession euro millions it has received from us. We have the pleasure of paying twice for all these useless eastern former commie broken countries and then pay again by supporting their citizens when they turn up over here. Hurray for the EU!!!

    Putin wants to be the ‘big man’ super power, trade with them and make them successful, or just take them back, please.

    • Adrian

      *sigh*
      Regarding the educating and employing of gypsies, that has proven to be an unaccomplishable goal. They are born into poverty and brought up with the notion of thieving, swindling and generally avoiding work.

      That is not an easy person to educate in the ways of honesty, fairness, and being an overall upstanding citizen of society. The ones that do, are exceptions.

      As for the rest of your comment, it pains me to say is truthful ..harsh, but truthful.

      There goes my national pride, heh.

      • Bonkim

        You appear to be a bigoted Eastern European too, people adopt survival strategies if they are oppressed and persecuted.

        • rodliddle

          Reading all your posts, I’ve come to the conclusion that you are an extremely deluded and condescending person.

          • Bonkim

            Hello Tweedledum, Alice said to the Mad Hatter, ‘ apart from commenting on commentators what comments have you posted on the reports?

            • rodliddle

              You’re no Alice, mate. She was my great great aunt three times removed of something, so I’d know about that. You’re one of the lobsters.

              • Bonkim

                Just when I was thinking you had a brain. I cannot remember whether I am speaking to Tweedledee or Tweedledum. Must be getting old.

                • Lungfish

                  My dogs are called Tweedledee and Tweedledum.. I must go to bed.

                • Lungfish

                  its mainly just plain ole, the usual

                • Lungfish

                  batcrazyfuckwit

              • Lungfish

                she sucked my granddad four times cousin removed off many times over

            • Lungfish

              nutjob

  • Adrian

    The gypsies portrayed above are called “Rroma”, and because of the unfortunate similarity to the term ‘Romanian’, most think they are one and the same, and that is not the case.

    Most of the crimes committed in Romania are done by Rroma ethnics, and we have always struggled with them. We do not condone their actions and we are furious a whole country’s reputation is being tarnished by the wrong-doings of an ethnic minority we ourselves would give anything to be rid of.

    If it were up to me, I would prefer the British government make the rules for obtaining social security/housing as strict as humanly possible, just to prevent them from callously taking advantage.

    Unfortunately ..such is life, and that is the cross me and my countrymen have to bear.

    I am truly sorry for the troubles they are causing.

    Sincerely,

    Your friendly tax-paying Romanian immigrant

    • Bonkim

      but equally bigoted – you had also consigned huge numbers of children to orphanages, and historically persecuted Gypsies, and other minorities.

      • Adrian

        So you believe I’m a bigott for disliking gypsies and am prejudiced against them? No mate, I am not prejudiced. I dislike the for all the right reasons.

        I interacted with alot of them in the hospital and I’ve had a lot of run-ins on the streets when I was younger and easier to mug. Also, my best friend’s girlfriend was recently almost gang raped by them.

        Trust me, I have all the right reasons to hate them. I’m afraid the percentage of decent civilised gypsies I’ve met is far to statistically insignificant.

        Spend some time with them and you may come to the same conclusion.

        • Bonkim

          I have. I have also seen them in the Balkans, and Rumania/Bulgaria. Yes they are as prejudiced of settled communities as the settled are of them – depends on where you live – you will be mugged and not necessarily by Gypsies.

          • Cornelius Bonkers

            Bonks, Surely, no rational society would encourage a situation which would IMPORT more problems than it already has. It’s not that we don’t know the baggage of problems that come with all these eastern Europeans. Rational populations AVOID problems rather than INVITE them?

            • Bonkim

              The comment relates to the story – these people are here because they are EU citizens – not asylum seekers from outside the EU – now that is what should be looked at to plug the route. The discussion degenerated into Gypsy and travellers versus settled citizens from Rumania/Bulgaria – the UK is over-populated as it is and population growing, land, houses, employment, all consumables over-stressed and yes, need for strict controls.

              Rumania/Bulgaria are semi-facist despite their EU membership, in their outlook and actively push their minorities out – the EU needs to look at that.

              • Cornelius Bonkers

                Bonks, a couple of things: We are in agreement I feel, and you know Rod, he likes a bit of “discussion degeneration” – opens the intellectual pores I feel, so that’s OK. Truth is, it should ALL be stopped; not even dentists should come – a Romanian rather than an Australian/S African? – I don’t think so! And oh, can a state be “semi-fascist?” what would that look like? I’d prefer to say Romania is corrupt and poverty-stricken because of post-war “socialism”. It’s just a heap of sh.t and we don’t need any more of that eh?

                • Bonkim

                  No Australian or S African either.

                • Shazza

                  Australians and S Africans (white) don’t freeload. They pay their taxes and contribute to the economy. They don’t force their culture on their new hosts, indeed most of them have ancestral and close family ties to the UK and were brought up in homes with traditional British values.

                • Bonkim

                  From your comment you appear to be excluding the original inhabitants of Australia and also African-South Africans. How do you know they are all law abiding and do not take advantage of their invisibility within the population? I know many UK and Australian and S African, and others with dual citizenship that take advantage of what is on offer in their countries of residence, change domicile and bank accounts to take advantage of tax and other aspects. The better off you are, you can travel, and take advantage whereas the poor Gypsies travel steerage, and are not smart enough to take advantage, and have to sleep on streets or as was noted by some scrounge around for subsistence.

                  Regards people with family connections with the UK, they don’t come into the discussion as they can legally settle in the UK.

                • Shazza

                  So, in a nutshell you advocate accepting into our society thieves and scroungers and turn away hard working,honest, educated, tax paying immigrants? So let’s get on with finishing Labour’s population replacement programme and turn a first world country into a third world dump. Waytogo! Complete the dumbing down process!!!

                • Bonkim

                  You don’t appear to understand English, or don’t read posts fully before shooting out, or stuck in your groove. No point going further. Not sure where Labour or Conservatives comes into this.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  No? Well, if you don’t mind me saying so, isn’t that a bit irrational and maybe xenophobic? I’ve had Aust/South African dentists for 40 years and no problems; so why not? Don’t you think this kind of immigration is a major BENEFIT for us? Anyone (chavs, semi-literate Africans, crazy Moslems etc) can do 90% of all jobs (cleaners, bank clerks, retail etc) but a good dentist? Also, you failed to respond to my point about “semi-fascism”.

                • Bonkim

                  We are not discussing skilled professionals from all parts of the world that have settled in Britain – as you say your dentist but fear of large numbers will low skills but huge demand on social services, and welfare. British population – those already settled here or having a right of free passage/settlement has gone up and increasing fast due to high birth-rates. At the same time British education, and aspirations of their youngsters is low compared with international competition. No problem increasing our skills-bank by selective immigration, and also reducing population by encouraging birth control/family planning, and restricting immigration of the low-skilled and getting local unemployed to work by reducing benefits.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  But Bonks, we are in agreement seemingly on all aspects. The only solution to this is to leave the EU and end the crazy and irrational human rights legislation which treats all people as equal when patently they are not, and mortages the future in the interests of what is – let us be honest – a half-witted political ideology. Oh, and you still haven’t responded to my enquiry about this “semi fascist” state of yours. Peace

                • Bonkim

                  semi-fascist – figure of speech – the Balkans and points East are populated by societies that were under one form or other Empire, collective rule or dictatorships and also loaded down by religious and cultural superstitions. These countries also were affected by centuries of Islam/Christian occupations, and wars and popular uprisings, even Christianity has become bigoted – so whilst having some sympathy for their history, have deep-seated problems – people are extremely ethno- and nationalism is entwined with religion, old hatreds dormant all over the region – classic example – the break up of Yugoslavia and the demons released. History is a powerful force on human behaviour.

                  Regards getting out of the EU – complex discussion – many issues – another day.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  “Fascist” and “semi-fascist” as “figures of speech” – not good enough, dangerous, and very lazy I’m afraid…

                • Bonkim

                  You will have think your own interpretation. Good luck.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  Your refusal to define these terms makes your arguments meaningless I’m afraid…

                • Bonkim

                  The world is imperfect and one has to generate ones answers. As you are an unsatisfied customer, will not send you my invoice.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  I’m sorry Bonks but without terminological agreement any exchange of views collapses

              • Fergus Pickering

                The Irish also push their gypsies out. Are they fascist?

                • Bonkim

                  Irish Travellers are not ethnic Roma Gypsies. Yes they do create a lot of nuisance – once again if councils allocated legal camp-sites which they were expected to do by law – same as social housing for the settled communities, there won’t be any illegal encampments which always hit the headlines.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I don’t care about ethnic. Ethnic is irrelevant to me. Gypsies describes a lifestyle antipathetic to me and most people you meet about the place. Perhaps not ll gypsies, but all that I have met, are thieves and vagabonds and they bring their children up to be the same. The thing that really sticks in my craw is that they live on my money through state handouts. If they were really prepared to live beyond the pale.I still wouldn’t like it but I might be prepared to be more tolerant. As it is, you are asking me to tolerate workshy scroungers.

                • Bonkim

                  You keep repeating work-shy scroungers – how do you know all are and the numbers of work-shy scroungers in the settled community?

                  if you don’t have an address, you don’t qualify for state benefits. Many Gypsies are self employed, work on building sites, seasonal work, etc, etc, and are not dependent on welfare. Where legal sites have been established they are able to access education, medical and social services, same as any other citizen, and many Gypsies want their children to be educated and integrate whilst keeping their travelling life-styles. It is arrogant of you not to allow individuals freedoms – Britain is a free country and not where religion or lifestyles can be forced upon others. I may not like many traits in British society, drunkenness, promiscuous sexual activity, single mothers with children from multiple fathers, ignorance, slut-walk, bad manners and language, and ignorant comments, but in a free society, recognize the right of others to practise their preferences and also to opt out from majority life-styles –

                  The British more than cultures have respected individuals and non-conformists and guarantors of personal freedoms unlike people from European and eastern cultures. Your comments are contrary to British values, then again you have the right to your beliefs.

                • roger

                  Irish Traveller women don’t get their very young children to beg.

                • Bonkim

                  I have seen little Gypsy children begging in Beograd, and Praha, also asylum seekers trying get money wiping car windows in London – I have also seen native Britons begging in London. What do you think the buskers are in tube stations, or those selling the Big-Issue – more sophisticated forms of begging. Those that are hungry or wanting their next drink of fix will resort to any means to get bare necessities.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  Explain “fascist”

                • Fergus Pickering

                  No, you explain it. You used it.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  Sorry Fergus I’m half asleep; I meant to send the message to Bonkim…

              • Adrian

                It’s amazing how the british people think they are so much better than the rest of other nations. I never lived in UK and I will never do that. Boring place, crap weather, crap food and full of indians it’s enough for me to stay away from such a place.
                But working as a pilot for a major airline, I do get to visit UK sometimes so I know first hand what I’m talking about.
                I also had few british flatmates and boy….the filth that they live in… drove me crazy.
                And what about all those centuries of british invasion around the world, and the atrocities done by them?
                But like te rest of Western Europe, british are equally ignorant and too blind to see the benefits they will get from the honest working immigrants. They pay your taxes, they fill most of the jobs that british don’t want to do…and they do it 10 times better than british workers too.

                • Bonkim

                  Why do you want to emigrate to Britain given the crap place it is – best to stay away – you sound like an Indian.

          • Fergus Pickering

            There is no room for gypsies in a modern state. They are scroungers and I don’t see why they should scrounge MY money.

            • Bonkim

              Many Gypsies have fought and died for King and country, and if I start discriminating against those I don’t like, there won’t be many left. How do you define a modern state, and states go through their life-cycles – born, develop, mature, grow old and die. I know many Gypsies that are no different from the settled folk, earn an hones living, stay in brick and mortar but also take to the road, in a free society, people should be free to follow their various lifestyles as long as they don’t cause a nuisance to others. If anyone indulges in criminality they are soon checked by the law.

          • roger

            If I want to see the problem I only have to go to our Bosnian house and look out of the window on market day, when the beggars come to town.We don’t see it in Dalmatia. I was amazed to see the same problem in Hyde park, has England gone mad.

            • Bonkim

              Giving alms is a religious duty in Islam, as it was in Christendom. And is there any social security in Bosnia, and in any case why do you have a house in Bosnia. Sounds suspicious.

    • Fergus Pickering

      Well what are you going to do about them? Oh I know. Send them over here. Why not? The Irish do.

      • Damon

        The Romanians are hardly “sending” them, are they?

  • blindsticks

    Yet another favourite line of theirs, whenever looking for equivalence in the immigration argument, is the ‘what about all the ex pats in Spain'(?) Never mind that these ex pats aren’t over there to pick pockets or mug the locals or to jump any housing queues or to claim jobseekers…. Yet if the truth be told I bet half of them aren’t just over there for the weather or the far superior public services. And were probably driven there by the same immigration madness.

    • Daniel Maris

      Yeah – but a lot of them are dodging prison over here… and they are destroying Spanish culture in the areas they take over.

      • Bonkim

        and drug running from S America.

      • blindsticks

        Spanish culture in the areas they take over.

        No, they’re not.

        • Daniel Maris

          We can’t condemn mass immigration here and in the same breath argue for mass immigration in Spain. But of course it’s up to the Spanish to decide if they want all those Brit expats.

    • Cornelius Bonkers

      Yes OK. But they live there whilst knocking over banks in the UK don’t they? Let’s try to be even handed on this – equivalence amongst thieves and all that…

      • blindsticks

        Yes, but some would have you believe Spain is some sort of escape paradise for Great Train Robbery type old lags
        Too many Brit gangster flicks. .

        • Cornelius Bonkers

          Ok, fair comment. But I like a nice Danny Dyer geezer flick; don’t spoil it for me…

  • Mihailo Petrovic

    As a serbian who lives in Romania I strongly protest against the image your so called “diary“ choosed to show as representative native Romanians .What you are showing here is a minority of Romanian citizens( gypsies) who have nothing to do with native Romanians.It`s interesting to notice that even if gypsies are everywhere in Europe in high numbers (especially in former comunist countries like Hungary, Serbia, Bulgaria , Greece, Russia , Ukraine) and living in much more horrible conditions than in Romania, british “media“ is still focusing on gypsies from Romania !You say that in Romania lives the biggest gypsy community but you forget to mention how lives of gypsies were during Romanian comunism since they could reproduce so well ! There are “gloomy shadows“ behind these curtains . There is a puppeteer pulling the strings. British media has developed a huge antiromanian campaign of denigration . For someone who`s familiar with press this is not new. They are doing this since more than 15 years , before Romania was member of the EU. At least german , austrian , italian press are fair enough and they never accused or denigrated romanians as being gypsies.Don`t worry, who`s inteligent and likes to read don`t take romanians as gypsies . They don`t need internet to find out what`s already so obvious.What bothers me most is that there are gypsies in Bulgaria and Hungary too, even manier and poorer than in Romania but media from UK doesn`t see those ones. Shame to all stuff of this diary for approving this photo to be released as an example of romanian citizens .

    • Alexandrovich

      Yes, it must be awful for them and I’m sure when they truly understand the nature of our horrible country they will all change their plans to emigrate here in 2014. It must be heartrending for Romanian governments to have lost so many of their citizens who would have contributed so much to their economy.
      But fret not, if they do come, the indigenous population of the UK will be happy to work that bit harder to keep your compatriots in the style to which they’re unaccustomed.

      • Răzvan Constantin Rapcea

        alexandrovich? you sound like an immigrant too. you forgot where you came from?

    • Daniel Maris

      We don’t really want to get involved in all your petty hatreds – we’ve got enough of our own thanks.

      • Mihailo Petrovic

        Dear Romanian immigrant established in UK , there is no hatred in any of my comments towards anyone. It represents the real deal from my perspective . I have been studying this phenomena for more than 15 years . Press from UK is constantly doing this . They just can`t help themselves because from time to time they receive an order from someone who`s “upstairs“ and they immediately have to drop a “bomb “. From this point of view BBC is the least trustful media , among many others. PS : Does the name “Soros“ tell you anything? 😀

    • Lungfish

      Fair point Mihailo. Lets not be all cunty about this, the simple facts are that its the EU that should be destroyed. Individuals should never be picked on wherever they are from. ( unless they are pikey thieving gits)

      • Alexandrovich

        Oh Lupus, you’re a regular caution!

        • Lungfish

          I thought that was perfectly reasonable Alex.

    • Răzvan Constantin Rapcea

      well said they erased my comment saying the same thing. Someone didnt like it. I am glad yours is still here

    • Bonkim

      You are quite right Mihailo – Eastern Europe is unknown territory and religious and ethnic bigotry alive and well – regardless of whether they are Gypsy or non-Gypsy ethnicity, Britain does not want that part of Europe coming here and spread their racial and sectarian cultures here, quite apart from reducing job and housing opportunities. It is for the European Union to sort out the bigotry against Gypsies in Eastern Europe and made that a condition of membership of Romania/Bulgaria, and other states in the Balkans.

      • Mihailo Petrovic

        I lived almost my entire life next to Romanians and I know this nation quite well . They are very sensitive about this similarity: Romanians vs Rroms , Romas , Romanes; especially when these remarks are made from outside their country ( their “beloved“ neighbours: Hungarians and Ukrainians-Russians) . They have constantly and obstinately refused to be tought by French ( who developed a strong, traditional criticism against Romanians` attitude towards gypsies untill French themselves felt how it`s like having gypsies in their neighbourhood and they gave up that politically correctness they were so hypocritically fond of) and other West Europe governments lessons of gypsies integration since during Romanian communism gypsies had lots of benefits and good social system care; even gypsies themselves admit that those were “their times“ ( another proof that Romanians were tolerant is the number of gypsy minority living nowadays in Romania : 2.5 millions – the biggest gypsy minority in Europe) . British people shouldn`t worry so much about their jobs and social care system . Romania has become a member of the EU in 2007 . Romanians and gypsies from Romania who wanted to go abroad have already done it by now . Those who thought they don`t find a place in western societies are still in their homeland and they`ll never leave from there. It`s very easy for press from UK to distract and fool the naive British viewer`s eye from the real daily issues they`ve got : compare their standards of living with eastern Europe standards . The prescription against street demonstrations is subtle, perverted , evil and ( the most important thing !) SUCCESSFUL .

      • Mihailo Petrovic

        Thanks for your reply ! Only one thing I have to add: the number of gypsies in Rumania is officially 575.000 . Some say 700.000. No one knows for sure but they say there are 2.5 mils.Usually you are believed to be what you claim. What you definitely don`t know is that when censuses are taking place gypsies( most of them)decline their ethnicity being afraid to be discriminated. Which is wrong .The last census took place in 2011 .But what about others who already were left from Rumania filling all big capitals of Europe? Today being a gypsy in Rumania is far more convenient . They still have more benefits than hard working paying- taxes native Rumanians. Most of gypsies now are far more reach than the majority of Rumanians ( easy to guess why :D).That`s the reason why you see only gypsies in GB . And that`s why Europe wrongly takes them as NATIVE RUMANIANS, because gypsies were the first Rumanian citizens to make contact with confused western Europe citizens, victims of the new kind of multiculturalism. Which brings me to the one million pounds question: TO BE …OR NOT TO BE…A GYPSY IN RUMANIA ?

        • Bonkim

          It is natural for people to not respond to questions on ethnicity and religion, etc, which allows officialdom to discriminate. Many in Britain ignore such questions too in the census and other official forms. You will find many immigrants to the US/Canada/Britain alter their names to blend in within the local scene. That is one form of integration and I don’t see anything wrong with that – as said ethnicity/religious tags are taken more seriously in Eastern Europe/Europe – not that much in UK or North America and that is how it should be.

          Regards Romanian Gypsies flooding rest of Europe – they are doing so as they suffer in their home lands and non-Gypsy Eastern Europeans too emigrate to better themselves. Huge numbers of Poles work in the UK and prefer to have children here for the benefits. Some of your comments appear to be the pot calling the kettle black.

          I am not blaming people migrating to better themselves whether they are Gypsies or not – simply that Britain is an overcrowded island and not in a position to take the influx – EU membership has been a loss-maker for Britain quite apart from the lack of democratic mandate from the British people on their impositions.

  • willshome

    I hope Spectator readers are enjoying their reasonably priced British cherries and strawberries which, as the BBC’s Harvest programme amply demonstrated, would have had to be imported from Spain and elsewhere after the death of British fruit farming without the welcome assistance young, honest, hard-working Eastern European immigrants. Ever since uppity Cockneys stopped transporting their families to the country en masse for a “holiday” at harvest time, the industry has been looking for a new underclass to exploit and despise. Now it’s found one.

    • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

      The point of this blog is to stroke the clitoris of unreconstructed right-wingers. Reality isn’t important.

      • Shazza

        At least we still have them, unlike your fascist soulmates who have undergone FGM.

        • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

          You sort of make my point for me – only one of Rod Liddle’s hard right loonie groupies would manage to throw in a completely unrelated reference to Muslims. For the record I have no time for Islamic fundamentalism or the other useful idiots who see the fascists you refer to as allies. The fact that so many approve of your moronic comment shows this blog is doing exactly what I said it’s supposed to.

          • Shazza

            Amazing how the loony fascist left who invited their co-fascist moslem hordes to invade this country ‘in order to rub the right’s noses in diversity’ always resort to violent and/or ad hominem attacks to defend their self-destructive policies in the absence of any constructive argument. They know, in their hearts, that all of us are going to reap what they have sown. RIP the once great Britain.

      • Dogsnob

        …’stroke the clitoris’. And I can’t even get entry-level swearing through the filter!

        • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.blott Matthew Blott

          Try being creative :-)

          • Colonel Mustard

            Nothing “creative” about using the term “unreconstructed” as if human beings were robots to be disassembled and reassembled to conform to a narrow political view. It is redolent of Mao’s China circa 1965.

            • Shazza

              Not just Mao – all of the fascist Left wing. Look what the Party of Mass Destruction did to our freedom of speech during their 13 year, treasonous misrule.Telling the truth is now ‘hate speech’.

              • FrenchNewsonlin

                “Telling the truth is now ‘hate speech’.” Quite. This torturous abuse of language by the PC brigade Europe-wide is a highly insidious, anti-democratic tool for closing down debate. The works of Leveson surfacing in infinitely destructive shapes and forms?

      • Colonel Mustard

        Why should a “right winger” be “reconstructed”? Doesn’t that strike even you as somewhat coercive?

        The term is both offensive and ignorant. I understand the aspirations and mechanisms moving us towards a single party state but currently we still enjoy political diversity. And “right wingers” are as entitled to express their political opinions as you are without the implication that they have somehow escaped a brainwashing exercise to make them parrot left wing propaganda.

        Coming from a political tendency that is always bleating on about equality, fairness and diversity you should be ashamed of yourself.

        • Noa

          You are supposed to do as he says. Not as he does.

        • Shazza

          Fortunately, we right wingers have the intelligence to recognise and avoid the brainwashing excercises so beloved of the fascist left wing.

    • Noa

      Nothing to stop you cherry picking willhome, I suspect though that you crave this work for others, but would find it beneath you personally.

      • RobertC

        I hear that those climate changers at the UEA are good at cherry picking.

        • DougS

          Don’t sell them short Robert. They’re not just cherry-pickers.

          Those number-changing, data-‘losing’, FOI-refusing, temperature-‘homogenising’ nasty troughing climastrologers at the CRU are truly multi-talented!

    • Shazza

      And what about all those ‘neets’? I presume the Spanish pick their own fruit or are Eastern European migrants picking the fruit there and the rest of Europe as well? I mean we really don’t want our ‘neets’ missing their daily Jeremy Kyle type tv would we?

    • blindsticks

      Shut up you fucking plonker.

    • Dogsnob

      Seems a bit of a poor deal to me: the wholesale destruction of our society by the mass importation of cheap labour; in exchange for……cherries?

  • Bert3000

    The reaction to this has been laughable. The main difference is that the British retirees who swan off to France or Spain are likely to be a massive strain on the health services there, in sharp contrast to the healthy Romanian workers we’ll be getting, who will actually contribute something to the economy.

    • willshome

      A sane reaction to the subject of immigration in the comments section of The Spectator! Excuse me, I may have to go and lie down…

      • Barakzai

        . . . and then you can arise, refreshed, to froth happily in CiF with the other Spartists-in-real-land?

    • Noa

      Those British retirees have of course made lifetime tax contributions to the NHS and UK social services which they will not be drawing down on.

      The homes they sell here will be purchased to house healthy eastern europeans, africans and Indians, whose social and health requirements will be unlimited and unfunded.

      • Shazza

        Not forgetting that they take their pensions/wealth with them to their new countries and spend their incomes there, thus enriching the new host country’s tax coffers.

    • Hexhamgeezer

      I love that ‘ are likely to be’.In other words you have no evidence but just hope it’s true.

      Ditto your 2nd point.

      Dire.

    • RobertC

      Has my irony detector packed up?

  • Hexhamgeezer

    At this rate The Big Issue will outsell every other paper combined.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Are they any good at tarmacing? I refer, of course to the traditional driveway activity and not that of the ‘urban dictionary’

    • Alexandrovich

      Too much like hard work. After a few failed attempts, they try persuading their menfolk to give it a go.

    • Lungfish

      I do tarmacking, and general building. Take a look at the supermarket in the middle of Bicester. I did that.

  • Ron Todd

    Since all cultures must be equal (except white British working class culture which is less equal) Romanian benefit tourists must be equivalent to people who have worked hard for decades saved their money then chose to retire to warmer climes.

    I would call him a political pygmy except that would be slandering pygmy culture and politics.

    • Austin Barry

      Well, to be fair, many Romanians are self-employed and particularly expert in ATM technology.

      Also, their street theatre production of “Oliver” is to be commended, particularly the enthusiastic rendition of “You’ve got to pick a pocket or two” with participation on the part of the unsuspecting audience.

      So, please, a little more appreciation and a little less sarcasm, Mr Todd.

      • Cornelius Bonkers

        Yes, during the 19th century London’s residents enjoyed the existence of an enterprise which more realistic commentators of the day called “the beggar’s opera”. Like Romanian entrepreneurialism, it too was a useful addition to London life and economy; relieving members of the public of their goods and cash with the fine intention of fencing them around the criminal underworld functioned to guarantee re-distribution of otherwise ill-gotten gains. 28m Romanian gypsies? What a great idea…

        • Cornelius Bonkers

          On second thoughts, forget the millions and make that 28…

        • Paul_Giles

          At the last Gay Pride march in Amsterdam, 47 pickpockets were arrested. 42 of them were Romanian. There’s no record of how many were Britons, retired or otherwise.

    • DougS

      You’re right Ron – elevating Browne to the status of ‘political pygmy’ would be a gross exaggeration of his worth.

      Such an inane comment puts him no higher than amoeba level.

      Typical Lib Dem though!

  • zakisbak

    My second home neighbour’s kids are busy screaming,literally,at the top of their lungs in the garden;their parents will join in soon;then,other second home owners will arrive in their delightful scrap trucks;scrap will be tossed around gaily,much shouting will occur;later,second home owners will peruse their neighbours bins,delicately placing junk into a brightly coloured pushchair;autumn:vibrant,colourful,noisy!Autumn used to be so dull:peaceful,quiet,no air bound scrap metal.

  • The_Missing_Think

    Well dotted sir, I can see why you’re a Labour party member.

    • RobertC

      RobertC “Has my irony detector packed up?”

      I think it has!

      • The_Missing_Think

        Indeed.

        I believe it’s time influential people broke ranks, and openly supported UKIP, irrespective of all other factors.

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