Coffee House

Ed Miliband has done politics a favour. The election will finally see philosophies compete

25 September 2013

12:54 PM

25 September 2013

12:54 PM

The next election is going to be the big, post-crash debate that the country didn’t have in 2010. Ed Miliband, as his speech yesterday demonstrated, believes that radical state intervention is needed to deal with the ‘living standards crisis’. His answer to the fact that there’s no money left is to get companies to pick up the tab for redistribution.

There’ll now be clear red water between Labour and the two other main parties at the next election. This raises the question of how the Lib Dems fit into all this. Miliband barely mentioned them in his speech yesterday and has steered clear of attacks on them this conference season. There’s been much chatter in Brighton that this is deliberate, the Labour leader keeping his options open in case of another hung parliament. But there’s genuine concern in Clegg’s circle about the contents and policy implications of Miliband’s speech. After yesterday, it is even harder to see how a Clegg Miliband coalition would work.

Miliband did politics a favour with his speech yesterday. He has guaranteed that the next election will be a proper choice between competing philosophies. Politics is not going to be boring over the next 20 months. Whether he has done himself a favour, remains to be seen.

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Show comments
  • salieri

    You call this juvenile clap-trap philosophy? Oh, please.

  • London Calling

    How many white rabbits can Ed pull out of the hat until the next election?………….:O

  • McRobbie

    Absolutely agree with that logic. It’s time the labour party showed it’s real colours openly and honestly and the election should be on the basic philosophies of each party..big nanny state and hatred of business under labour ..small state less interference and individuals rights under conservatives and, well, the lib dems and of course UKIP (the non party that will hand labour the reins)

    I know which I’ll be voting for and it wont be for a return to envy, mediocrity and restrictions of the 1970’s and strikes for more and more, it will be for freedom and excellence and competition…I’ll be voting tory.

  • Steve Lloyd

    Mostly bullshit, http://tinyurl.com/ogeq8gg but this will resonate, How can the Tories deal with the threat from Ukip They are mostly our cousins and we want them back.

  • global city

    Yes… that is the point. Oppositional philosophies increase the chance of one side being rejected more than another, but that is the nature of democracy. The New Labour project, and it’s follow up tory light have took the piss out of democracy and the electorate.

  • Adrian Wainer

    Millipede has seen the future and it is the Austin Princess.

    Top Gear : British Leyland Challenge Highlights – BBC
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7q8lWEd-o

  • StateWeShouldBeIn

    Good article. I have long hankered for the glory days of the 80s when the parties were poles apart, but really thought we would never see it again. Yes, we all know Miliband has lurched to the left (and the dustbin of history), but what is shocking is the similarity of some of the language to their ’79 and ’83 manifestos- land seizure, for example, appeared in both….and yesterday. CCHQ should reprint both to remind the electorate what Red Ed really means….

    • Adrian Wainer

      ” Good article. I have long hankered for the glory days of the 80s when the parties were poles apart, but really thought we would never see it again. Yes, we all know Miliband has lurched to the left (and the dustbin of history), but what is shocking is the similarity of some of the language to their ’79 and ’83 manifestos- land seizure, for example, appeared in both….and yesterday. CCHQ should reprint both to remind the electorate what Red Ed really means…. “,.
      StateWeShouldBeIn

      Sorry the Millipede has certainly crawled off in a leftward direction but that does not deal with the issue that David Cameron is not a Conservative and whilst the political party David Cameron is leader of is called the Conservative Party it is not actually a Conservative party.

      David Cameron backs Turkey entry into EU (27July10)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNb_PHvQF4s

      • Denis_Cooper

        And his chum William Hague has carefully written the so-called “referendum lock” law so that we would not have a referendum on whether Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, any more than we had a referendum on whether Croatia should be allowed to join the EU.

        The statement that Hague laid before Parliament on February 2nd 2012 said:
        “All of the provisions of the Croatia Accession Treaty relate to the accession of a new member State to the European Union and thus the Croatia Accession treaty as a whole is subject to the exemption provided for in section 4(4)(c) of the Act.

        In my opinion the treaty concerning the accession of the Republic of Croatia to the European Union of 9 December 2011 does not fall within section 4 of the Act and no referendum is required in the UK.”
        And it would have been the same if had been Turkey.
        And

  • GUBU

    For me the choice is simple.

    I cannot, and will not, vote for a man who looks as if his face is permanently pressed against a pane of glass.

  • Denis_Cooper

    “The next election is going to be the big, post-crash debate that the country didn’t have in 2010.”

    So who’s fault was that it we didn’t have it in 2010?

    Well, we had a governing party which preferred not to have that debate, plus we had a main opposition party which also preferred not to make political capital out of the catastrophic economic incompetence of the governing party by pointing out that the government was having to borrow a quarter of the money it was spending, and could only do so by getting the Bank of England to create £198 billion of new money and use it to rig the gilts market.

    As Frazer Nelson suggested in an article here in May 2009, an article which it seems is no longer available on the website but which pointed out:

    “The Bank of England today confirmed that less than 1% of the £44.5bn it has printed has gone to buy company loans – it had indicated that as much as a third of the £150bn pool would go to companies. Instead, it is a mechanism to help the government issue the £240bn of gilts it’s issuing this year. Why is this important? Because if the markets think QE is actually a way of one department of the government printing money for the other departments to spend (a la Weimar Germany), then confidence in the currency collapses. And right now, it looks very much like the Bank of England’s asset purchase programme is a device to buy state debt, masquerading as an attempt to target inflation.”

    But that was before it was decided to follow Osborne by keeping quiet about it.

    • HookesLaw

      The simple issue in 2010 was that the country faced austerity and no one enjoyed talking about it.

      But in fact I think we did have a debate. Labour tried to imply the tories would lay waste and burn the economy and that theor cuts would be nice and cuddly and – well not cuts at all really so that you would notice.

      • Denis_Cooper

        There was virtually no realistic debate about the desperate financial position of the UK government, disguised by the fact that been using QE to tide itself over during the year leading up the election.

        • roger

          And will continue to do so, it seems for ever. The continual debasement is not noticed by most people, if you stop pedaling the bike falls over.
          The choice is between weaning people off credit and consumerism gradually ( impossible I think) or a quick reset with a lot of pain.
          The queues outside the Apple store looked from a distance like a bread queue of the 1940s.

          • Adrian Wainer

            ” And will continue to do so, it seems for ever. The continual debasement is not noticed by most people, if you stop pedaling the bike falls over.The choice is between weaning people off credit and consumerism gradually ( impossible I think) or a quick reset with a lot of pain.
            The queues outside the Apple store looked from a distance like a bread queue of the 1940s. “,.
            roger

            So basically you would like people in Britain to reside in state provided tenements and live on a diet of porridge and faggots whilst watching tales of heroic workers in tractor factories in the USSR in the 1950s on the BBC introduced by a clone of Jimmy Savile, correct ?

            https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZWK1W7zOhWk/UTyK329y-CI/AAAAAAAAACM/gsz8mempy1I/w800-h800/d527b7a4bce416ba70b3868dca19e6f892452592.jpg

            • Wessex Man

              there is no need to continually repeat other people here it boring!

              • Adrian Wainer

                ” there is no need to continually repeat other people here it boring! “,.
                Wessex Man

                And?

        • HookesLaw

          The election was all about the financial situation. It was fought in an anti politics atmosphere against the background of the expenses scandal and with the novelty of the debates which I grant you featured far too much.

          • Denis_Cooper

            During the election campaign the debate never got beyond arguing over a few billion here and a few billion there.

            The sheer magnitude of the problem was never properly explained to the electorate, and nor was the fact that the Labour government had only been able to only carry on with its overspending and overborrowing by getting the Bank of England to rig the gilts market.

            Who decided that he would let the Labour party off the hook by holding back from emphasising to the electorate that the government had only been able to avoid drastic public spending cuts in the year before the election by getting the Bank of England to print £198 billion of new money?

            Osborne.

            Why did he do that?

            Because he thought that as Chancellor he might want to do some of the same; as so he has, to the tune of £175 billion.

            What were the consequences of Osborne’s failure?

            The Tories failed to get a majority even though they were up against one of the worst governments in living memory, and so now we have this coalition with the LibDems – but there are strong suspicions that Cameron always wanted that to be the outcome of the last election, just as he seems to want it to be the outcome of the next election as well.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …except that you Camerloonies were then shrieking how much “austerity” and “cuts” you were bringing on.

        In fact, you were and are socialists, just like all of your LibLabCon soulmates.

      • realfish

        ‘But in fact I think we did have a debate. Labour tried to imply the tories would lay waste and burn the economy and that theor cuts would be nice and cuddly and – well not cuts at all really so that you would notice.’

        And the BBC were more than happy to work with Labour to amplify the ‘cuts’ threat, pursuing Tories on the stump, demanding they come clean about the cuts they would deliver.

  • Adrian Wainer

    ” He has guaranteed that the next election will be a proper choice between competing philosophies. “,.

    Yes between the Communist Labour Party leader Stalin Ed Miliband in an Axis with Islamists and the New British Union of Fascists Conservative Party leader Sir Oswald Mosley David Cameron in an Axis with Islamists. A plague on both your houses.

    Set Europe alight.
    Winston S Churchill

    http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/50b38ad6eab8ea663c000013-1200/wwii-art-military-defense.jpg

    • HookesLaw

      Who let you out of play school? Go back before you are missed.

      • Adrian Wainer

        ” Who let you out of play school? Go back before you are missed. “,.
        HookesLaw

        I didn’t steal your Kinder Egg if that is what you are worried about.

        • HookesLaw

          But you are insulting my intelligence.

          • Adrian Wainer

            ” But you are insulting my intelligence. “,.
            HookesLaw

            I have never claimed that hive intelligence can not be highly sophisticated.

            • HookesLaw

              But you do associate a moderate Conservative government with being fascists.
              You are a dope and a joke. Go away and get your nappy changed.

              • Adrian Wainer

                ” But you do associate a moderate Conservative government with being fascists.You are a dope and a joke. Go away and get your nappy changed. “,.
                HookesLaw

                Cameron’s lot are not moderates and they are not Conservatives and if anything it is somewhat unfair to Italian Fascism to claim equivalence between David Cameron’s Conservative Party and Italian Fascism as for example it would enjoy a much better reputation had Fascist Italy not formed an Axis with Nazis Germany which was a political decision by Mussolini not a requirement of Italian Fascist ideology. Ciao.

                Chorus of Hebrew Slaves, the Padania national anthem
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU1bQjRixvY

                • HookesLaw

                  Are you still here?

                • Adrian Wainer

                  ” Are you still here? “,.
                  HookesLaw

                  Yes why is your flying saucer having communications difficulties, ( personally I was never been a big fan of Bosch electrics ),. ?

                  http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/69cba3ef9036.png

                • Wessex Man

                  Ignore the halfwit Hooky.

                • roger

                  As Hayek pointed out, Fascism is the extension of socialism not its opposite. We need some politicians to read Locke and A. Smith, we need individualist liberals. Of course that liberalism has nothing to do with the Clegg mess.

                • Adrian Wainer

                  ” As Hayek pointed out, Fascism is the extension of socialism not its opposite. We need some politicians to read Locke and A. Smith, we need individualist liberals. Of course that liberalism has nothing to do with the Clegg mess. “,.
                  roger

                  What Britain needs are politicians who are not scumbags and traitors.

    • David Lindsay

      Better out than in?

      • Adrian Wainer

        ” Better out than in? “,.
        David Lindsay

        Better “out” of what than “in” what ?

  • HookesLaw

    Miliband has done politics a grave disservice – but we cannot expect you to understand that Mr Forsyth.

    As reported today (in the Telegraph for one) – the largest shareholder in Centrica says…
    ‘ “The margins have stayed the same, the return on capital has stayed the same.
    There have been umpteen investigations into the retail energy market by
    Ofgem over the last 10 years. But at no stage did any investigation
    highlight cartel activity or price fixing activity. There is no evidence of
    profiteering.”
    “What we have had in the last 10 years – not least when Ed Miliband was energy
    secretary – is any number of policies that have been specifically designed
    to raise prices such as the carbon price floor or massive renewable
    policies,” Mr Woodford said.
    He said it was “rank dishonesty” to blame increases in the price of bills on
    the energy companies and argued that the threat of a price cap had come just
    when the regulatory clouds “were clearing” and foreign funds were looking to
    make key investments in the UK’s crumbling energy supply market.’

    Let me just point out to you that ‘rank dishonsety’ means lying. Miliband lied and you say that does politics a service?
    What you mean to say is that he has done the reporting of politics a service.
    You have done journalism a disservice by chosing not to expose Miliband.

    • David Lindsay

      the largest shareholder in Centrica says

      He would.

      Miliband wants to replace Ofgem. He hasn’t said with what. But we all know. With a Secretary of State for Energy, accountable to Parliament. Accountable for the conduct of these renationalised industries.

      That will be perfectly easy to bring about once, as has already started today, the shares have been rendered worthless. Ed Miliband is a very ruthless man. Good.

      • Adrian Wainer

        ” the largest shareholder in Centrica says

        He would.

        Miliband wants to replace Ofgem. He hasn’t said with what. But we all know. With a Secretary of State for Energy, accountable to Parliament. Accountable for the conduct of these renationalised industries.

        That will be perfectly easy to bring about once, as has already started today, the shares have been rendered worthless. Ed Miliband is a very ruthless man. Good. “,.
        David Lindsay

        It does not realistically matter whether Britain follows a socialist track or a capitalist track, Britain will cease to exist as a Western liberal democracy unless Islamism is contained and marginalized.

        • HookesLaw

          You are a grade A nutjob

      • HookesLaw

        He is quoting an independent report.
        You are cheerleading for nationalisation – and putting more borrowing on the public accounts..

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …which is what you socialist Camerloons want, laddie, just like the rest of your LibLabCon soulmates.

      • HookesLaw

        No under Miliband and the illegal policies you demand its Britain that will have been rendered worthless.
        Not, to be fair to you, that that will matter since under Miliband we will be subsumed into a greater European Union

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …so, same as with your boy Call Me Dave, then.

      • MirthaTidville

        Milliband has just shown how stupid and desperate he really is…what he was trying to do was stop him being overthrown before 2015…lot of water still to go under that bridge…The rest of your quote is laughable

      • Redrose82

        He is economically illiterate and is more responsible for putting up the price of energy than anybody inside or outside of the energy industry with his mindless green agenda when he was energy secretary. He is a ONE NOTION politician that notion being SOCIALISM. He would bring chaos and ruin to the country should he get the keys to number 10. I have no time for David Cameron and I am one of those disaffected Conservatives who have flirted with UKIP indeed I shall vote for them in the Euro elections next year. However I shall hold my nose and vote BLUE in 2015 as it is the only way we can prevent the catastrophe that is Red Miliband from gaining office. I urge all those like me to do the same.

    • Tom Tom

      Who cares about INVESCO. They can go home to Houston and take John Banham (ex-McKinsey) with them. Why should we get fleeced to service a US Investment Management Firm ? This is the kind of drooling subservience you get once you have bent over far too often…..it does not surprise me with you HookesLaw – BOHICA must be your motto

      • HookesLaw

        Stay happy with more nationalisation then. Under socialists. It does not surprise me you are confused.
        And of course ‘he’ is not saying anything. ‘He’ is quoting various independent reports and as Mr Lancashire has pointed out, our energy costs are not excessive.

        • 2trueblue

          Absolutely. The UK energy prices are amongst the lowest in Europe, but the media are too ignorant to report that. Of course they could be unaware of it. It is all this adulation for Millipede that is worrying. This is the man who was part of the government that got us into an almighty mess, and was in fact in charge of our energy policy whilst part of that government. I fail to remember him doing anything useful whilst in that role.

    • steakfrites

      I agree with your attacks on Miliband entirely, but as you’re well aware there have been plenty of attacks on this policy for the last 24 hours, and they will only intensify. This article of Forsyth’s wasn’t intending to be another attack on him – I am certain the Speccie’s leading article this week will be another assault on his policy now and as Energy Sec – just to praise the opening up of a more genuine big govt vs small govt debate. We totally mised that in 2010, with Labour and Tories basically offering the same anaemic austerity package. British politics may have been benefited by the potential arrival of genuine debate about the country’s future.

  • Chris lancashire

    I suspect that even now the torpedoes are speeding to intercept Miliband’s flagship policy. Excellent graph over on Guido showing that UK energy costs are slap bang in the middle of all other European countries with the likes of Germany, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark all with higher energy costs. Of the 16 countries with lower costs 13 have left leaning governments. Lessons:
    1. UK energy costs are not exceptional; everyone is having to pay more.
    2. If you want lower energy costs have a socialist government but (and this is the bit Miliband didn’t mention) you’ll pay for that with higher taxes.

    • HookesLaw

      Miliband and labour spokesmen are casual with the truth. Not least at their party conferences. Milibands speech was riddled with them.

      Rest assured Mr Nelson and the rest of his team will be doing their best to nit pick at the tories in their regular attempts to iundermine them and ignore the calumnies by Labour.

      • Wessex Man

        Yes it’s awlful, I can’t imagine where they got these dreadful tactics from can you Hooky?

    • Alex

      Just listening to the BBC World Service; even the BBC are blaming government price controls for the massive shortages in Venezuela. Maybe someone should point it out to Ed.

      • HookesLaw

        Alistair Heath points out another lie from Milband, re housing.

        ‘in 2008 the Office for Fair Trading “found [no] evidence to support the view, that, at the national level, homebuilders are hoarding a large amount of land with implementable planning permission on which they have not started construction.” A Glenigan report for the Local Government Association found in 2011 that there were 399,816 homes with unimplemented planning permission. But of these 191,000 were actually under construction but not finished – a building site may have permission for 1,000 flats, and the
        developers may be half way through – and 83,000 were unimplemented provisions for social housing. There were just 127,000 private, unstarted units; there will usually be good reasons for these. A site may be unprofitable at current house prices after taxes and various other levies faced by developers.
        But none of this matters. Red Ed is a demagogue; he wants to fuel tensions and the politics of envy.
        http://www.cityam.com/article/1380069485/miliband-s-lurch-left-recipe-disaster#sthash.nvzzYy2n.dpuf

    • HookesLaw

      I have not looked at Mr Staines’ graph yet but some of the reasons for lower costs might well be geography not simply being lefty. Norway has vast amounts of oil and gas and so relatively cheap energy.
      I believe that Norway has just junked some plan to store ‘carbon’ (who knows where) as its vastly too complicated and expensive. So they certainly know hpow to waste the taxpayers money.

      • Chris lancashire

        From memory, Norway may not have been on the list; it may have been EU only.

        • HookesLaw

          Well you have forced me to go over and look at Guido which strangely always makes me come away feeling a little dirty.
          Yes it’s just EU.
          The country of interest is France which is pretty high up and of course heavily nuclear. Miliband and labour constantly put off decisions about our nuclear power industry.
          The ‘low cost’ countries look in fact relatively poor and I guess relatively low consumenrs of energy. Poland has lots of cheap coal – and now shale gas.

          The point of course remains a good one – our energy costs are not exessive. Miliband is lying.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            They are excessive and are driving up inflation and the cost of living, which is what the Millipedes are playing off.

            The Camerloons’ love for global warmingism, foolish taxes and QE have fashioned the noose that the Millipede is helping to slip around the Camerloonian neck.

            Classic politics. The Camerloons are hanging themselves. The Millipedes are merely letting them do so.

  • Russell

    Cameron will be rubbing his hands together as Conservative coffers pile up with massive contributions/donations from all major businesses.

    Well done Dopey Ed, millions like myself will be hoping this can finally put Socialism in the bin for good, especially with teachers strikes, fireman strikes, post office strikes and a few more so called (ironically) ‘public services’ strikes!.

    • Adrian Wainer

      ” Cameron will be rubbing his hands together as Conservative coffers pile up with massive contributions/donations from all major businesses.

      Well done Dopey Ed, millions like myself will be hoping this can finally put Socialism in the bin for good, especially with teachers strikes, fireman strikes, post office strikes and a few more so called (ironically) ‘public services’ strikes!. “,.
      Russell

      Islamists and their fellow travelers do not really care if there is a Communist or a Fascist in 10 Downing Street as long as Islamism is accommodated.

      • Last Man Standing

        Communism and Fascism are simply two forms of the same totalitarian and statist impulse. Labour, LibDems and Conservatives are all of them, equally, wedded to the idea that state control of all activity is necessary. They are all totalitarians.

  • Swiss Bob

    So far he’s been shown to be wrong about gouging by energy companies and hoarding of land by property companies.

    He’s a genius.

  • Daniel Maris

    Strategically, this is a brilliant outflanking move from Miliband. The Tories have to fight back very carefully, if they go for a frontal assault they will be cut down by allegations that they are the energy companies’ friends – which if course they are.

    The idea that the cosy energy cos couldn’t save 10% on their expenditure is ridiculous.

    Labour have pursued a populist policy and shown it can work well.

    What a shame they don’t follow through on mass immigration and the EU. But they are prisoners of their own ideology.

    • HookesLaw

      Its easy to save their expenditure. they don’t spend. And tbhat means blackouts.
      But Miliband is demanding that they continue to spend. Where will they get the money? His 2030 rubbish is really a financial call on the taxpayer and ultimately the fuel user.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …and Call Me Dave set the table for all this, by hammering home that same “financial call”, which people are suffering with even now.

    • Alex

      Um, so companies can easily cut spending 10%, but a slightly lower rate of increase in Government spending is ‘savage cuts’.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …forget it… he’s rolling.

    • Adrian Wainer

      ” Strategically, this is a brilliant outflanking move from Miliband. The Tories have to fight back very carefully, if they go for a frontal assault they will be cut down by allegations that they are the energy companies’ friends – which if course they are.

      The idea that the cosy energy cos couldn’t save 10% on their expenditure is ridiculous.

      Labour have pursued a populist policy and shown it can work well.

      What a shame they don’t follow through on mass immigration and the EU. But they are prisoners of their own ideology.”,.
      Daniel Maris

      ” Labour have pursued a populist policy and shown it can work well. “,.
      You can say this with confidence because you own a time machine ?

  • HookesLaw

    Again, there is nothing new in what socialists want to do.
    Blair was an alternative face but he was at every turn obstructed by Brown who was unreconsucted socialist.
    Labour have always been the same, Miliband merely reminds us about what is at stake.
    And let us not forget that someone as unreconstrucred as Miliband would have the decision on replacing Trident. Watch that space.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …so is that what you Camerloons call the socialist Blair: “an alternative face”?

      I guess that’s how you Camerloonian muppets justify the socialist H2B…

    • Adrian Wainer

      ” Again, there is nothing new in what socialists want to do.Blair was an alternative face but he was at every turn obstructed by Brown who was unreconsucted socialist.
      Labour have always been the same, Miliband merely reminds us about what is at stake.
      And let us not forget that someone as unreconstrucred as Miliband would have the decision on replacing Trident. Watch that space. “,.
      HookesLaw

      Trident is not the core defense issue. The core defense issue is whether the Government in office in Westminister is an opponent of Islamism or a collaborationist entity in supporting Islamism.

      • Wessex Man

        Trident is not the core defense issue. The core defense issue is whether the Government in office in Westminster is an opponent of Islamism or a collaobrationist entity in supporting Islamism.

  • Ian Walker

    The EU secret plan

    Step 1) Get Tories to scupper badly needed electoral reforms…complete!
    Step 2) Get Lib Dems to scupper badly needed boundary reform…complete!
    Step 3) Get weak Labour leader to lurch desperately towards socialism…complete!
    Step 4) Get pliant socialist government in the UK, by combining 1) 2) and 3)…pending…
    Step 5) Merge socialist UK into federal Europe…pending…

    • HookesLaw

      Thank you for the latest news from Planet Zog.

      • Wessex Man

        Ian Walker you a are Saint and a very good speech writer, just promise that your head won’t be turned by Call me dave!

    • Austin Barry

      Step 6) Destroy the nation state by mass immigration…successfully underway.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Well clearly, by any reasonable measure, Step 4) is complete.

      I’d say Step 5) is likely 80% complete. If the currency had ever gone over, it would have been complete by now.

    • Bill Brinsmead

      Get a grip Ian.

      • Ian Walker

        No sense of humour, and wrong about everything. The hallmarks of the socalist.

  • Robert_Eve

    Socialism isn’t a serious philosophy.

    • Tom Tom

      Works for Bankers

      • MirthaTidville

        Its the same as communism..that didnt work either

  • Steve Lloyd

    Milliband is irrelevant, but he will still win in 2015. Cameron is utterly despised, even, or perhaps more so by natural Tories, and many who would have voted Tory will not vote for Cameron.
    Add to that Labours in-built advantages, bounderies, the public sector vote, the ethnic minority vote and the huge amount of the Tory vote that will migrate to UKIP, a Milliband victory is almost inevitable.
    A clearer picture will emerge in May, and it’s at that point real Tories may, or may not, have a decision to make.

    • Hello

      Have you noticed that the Conservatives, the LibDems and UKIP are all reacting in a remarkably similar way? He’s a modern day Napolean, managing to create an unholy alliance against himself. Though, I regret to say, there will be no mediterranean island with a thousand socialists for him at curtain call.

    • HookesLaw

      Polls say otherwise.
      The public sector is declining.

      But what is this you say?
      ‘taking into account the huge amount of the Tory vote that will migrate to UKIP’
      Say again? But a bit louder please.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        No, the polls say exactly what he’s describing. On current trends, the Cameroons are going to get completely thrashed.

        And a huge amount of the Cameroon-rejecting vote will migrate to UKIP. Why would you act surprised at that, laddie? Everybody else already knows it, and they don’t need to be reminded. They knew it long ago. It’s only you Camerloons who are having trouble accepting that Dave’s head is going to be mounted on a spike in 19.5 months.

      • Wessex Man

        TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE HUGE AMOUNT OF THE TORY VOTE THAT WILL MIGRATE TO UKIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Russell

      The only decision Tory MP’s will have come May 2014 is whether or not to transfer to UKIP or hope that they get enough votes to form a UKIP/Tory coalition.

      • HookesLaw

        A notion which is insanely delusional.

        • roger

          But UKIP really is the old Tory party , the old county tories combined with the working class and ex-working group small ‘c’ consevatives.
          Bringing them back on board should be main aim of the Conservative ( and Unionist dare I say) Party.
          The key battle is not living standards but the EU and immigration ( also an EU issue).

          • HookesLaw

            No it is not.

            UKIP is the party of Churchill Eden Macmillan Whitelaw? You should be on the London Palladium.

            • Wessex Man

              He can’t Call me Dave is booked solid till May 2015!

  • Hello

    Labour are briefing that they are well prepared for a backlash…which can only mean that they are not. They’ve completely sacrificed strategic control. The Tories can just ensure that they get enough of a beating now to take the wind out of any road campaign, attack Labour in the mid term for a lacklustre campaign keeping them on the back foot, then leave the major questions for closer to the election and watch an untested shadow cabinet fumble right before people go to the polls. The only way that Labour can regain temporary control will be to announce even more radical leftwing policies which will cause them even greater pain down the line.

    As long as the Tories do not become complacent then they have this one in the bag. The question is how much of a pummelling of Labour is required to start getting Labour voters trekking right.

    • DrCoxon

      ‘…how much of a pummelling of Labour is required to start getting Labour voters trekking right.’

      If they journey ‘right’, will they go to
      [a] LibDem
      [b] Tory
      [c]UKIP
      or
      [d] abstain in the end ?

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Well, the Millipedes will likely take a larger share than they got in 2010, so I doubt there’ll be much net “journeying” going on. The Cleggites will lose out, and some or most of them will journey over to the Millipedes, if anything.

      • Wessex Man

        Judging by the recent by-elections they will be flocking to UKip for the good of the country.

  • DrCoxon

    Will Mr Cameron articulate a Conservative philosophy that Mr Clegg will find difficult?

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