Coffee House

A warm welcome to Manchester from the TUC

29 September 2013

5:03 PM

29 September 2013

5:03 PM

As it boomed, whistled and shouted its way past Manchester Central this afternoon, the TUC’s Save Our NHS march seemed reasonable enough. If they want to disagree with the Conservatives on key policy issues, then so be it, that’s government for you.

But when I decided to watch and photograph what I thought was a peaceful protest, I found that some of the comrades joining in weren’t so keen. A middle-aged man clutching a Socialist Worker grabbed me, demanding to know ‘who are you taking photos for?’. I told him I was taking them for me, and tried to walk away. But then two of his companions joined us.

[Alt-Text]


The gang surrounded me beside a Costa coffee shop and demanded to know, again, who I was with. ‘If you don’t put you f**king camera way, we’ll smash it off your face’. ‘Go and f**k off back to your conference, you p***k’, they said after I managed to escape to the Premier Inn.

I’m not the only one to have a negative experience with the marchers. The Times‘ Tim Montgomerie was spat at, while activist Mahyar Tousi was racially abused while walking down a street.

I was quite taken aback, as nearly every political demonstration I’ve attended has been congenial. I’m very sure this gang of thugs are not representative of majority of those marching through Manchester. In fact, most of those I could see appeared to be health care workers. Surely they will be disappointed by the thugs who think the best way of making the case for a different approach to public policy is threatening bystanders?


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Show comments
  • David J Noble

    I travelled from Altrincham on the 1st day. I was with my good friend and Leader of the Trafford council Clr Colledge , he had wanted to show off the excellent tram network, unfortunately the service was interrupted by the protest, so was forced to use a cab . £25 later , we were dropped as close as possible to the “green Zone / safe zone of conference” (it is a pity that we could not enjoy a relaxed atmosphere of the Labour conference) … as we hurried (to make the Mrs Thatcher tribute) towards the entrance (still 200-300m away) we caught the eye of the march … seeing our blue ribbon / passes they became excited … whistles blowing , and the chants “death to the tories” … a lovely introduction to my first conference . What TUC members forget is that the Tories (obviously) want good for the country , we just have a different approach to solving the complexes of government (which we shall not debate now) . I must say, whilst watching the moving Mrs Thatcher tribute (an insider would have alerted the TUC) the protesters outside made themselves audible … if anything I think the Honourable Lady would have been pleased that they turned out for her! @DavidJNoble Twitter

  • Thats_news

    Sadly you are wrong. They are very typical of the vermin that infect the NHS. They intimidate their colleagues on a daily basis, and now they are coming for you. Nice people, aren’t they?

  • Edward Millership

    Whoever said that there was trouble on the march for people with camera’s is spouting a load of rubbish I was extremely OVERT with MY camera zoom lens and flash no one had any issues NOT EVEN THE POLICE WITH THE GUNS COMPLAINED – If your life is so sad you need to invent stories to make your life more interesting, you have my pity. Go and seek attention somewhere else..

  • whs1954

    Labour and its hangers on now seem to view Tories as a race apart – evil, wicked, and as such deserving of the vilest abuse and hatred.

  • Jama Mohammed

    Manchester is a Tory free zone.

  • Linda Breeze

    David Cameron and his government have greatly vandalised our country. They have wreaked and wrecked in astronomical portions. This country is like a bomb site which needs rebuilding. They are thugs.

  • gulberwick

    I smell mendacity as well as the usual Tory hypocrisy

  • thejollyroger

    What else does one expect from Manchester, a city of losers in more than one way.

  • wrinkledweasel

    Just an observation; much as this thread has become a feeding ground for certain well-known trolls, it has not, I am delighted to observe, been heavily moderated.

    It is worth bearing in mind the level of obscenity and abuse that is regularly allowed in the Guardian, as long as it is aimed at the right. I finally got banned from “Comment is Free” for pointing out that one of their columnists, Ricky Tomlinson, was a former BNP supporter and candidate (ironically, a fact reported in an earlier piece in its own pages). It clearly did not go down well, but what was worse is that any reasoned, polite critique that the Guardian does not agree with is censored.

    Along with the BBC, the Guardian does its best to shut down any debate that the Right looks as if it will win.

    It is an historical tendency among those who promulgate Fascism or Stalinism that the first resort is to dismantle or subvert the organs of democracy, free speech being one of them, and indeed the most fundamental of them. That tendency currently emanates from the Left.

    Payne’s example is not just anecdotal evidence, it is a paradigm.

  • Reborn

    The reasonable & decent Left got all they could ask for (& more than we can afford) years ago. Which is why Labour & Tories are usually very similar.
    The Socialist Left, reappearing in the Labour Party & beyond, is vicious & destructive.
    Milliband is a closet Red, & always will be, because of his unfortunate background & the fact that he has never worked in a proper job, or mixed with ordinary people.
    Similar comments can be maid about the privileged Mr Cameron, but he has a Tory sense of noblesse oblige towards us common folk, whereas the socialists see us as units to be manipulated towards their desired ends.
    The Far Left from the SWP to Unite Against Fascism are essentially violent & destructive & have not a shed of humanity between the lot of them.

  • dalai guevara

    wow, the unions in Britain are so weak, it’s unbelievable they even get press coverage.

  • Littlegrayman

    Don’t ya just love the tolerance of the three main parties, high time we told em where to shove it and backed UKIP.
    The Liberal left ruling elites and their storm troopers really hack me off.

  • Susan Smith

    I don’t believe one word of this,not one, pathic,no reports to GM Police no evidence to back this up despite 1000’s of potential witness and cameras.I’m at a meeting tomorrow with Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy and Greater Manchester Police and Crime Commissioner Tony Lloyd I shall certainly be bringing this to their attention.

    • glurk

      Oh? Oh well if you say that then thats all ok then.

      • Susan Smith

        thank you, the public meeting of above is this evening at 6pm Dukinfield town hall,i was luck enough to be selected to ask a Q and shall be raising this alleged “abuse”

        • glurk

          Im sure Sebastian will be delighted to be there to present what happened to him. Thank you

  • HookesLaw

    The govt have ring fenced NHS spending and the economy savings being made – 20 billion – were matched in Labour’s 2010 manifesto (which makes you wonder why they spent the money in the first place).

    This protest is bogus. Manufactured.

  • Robert Taggart

    ‘Wet’ welcome more like – even without the usual rain !
    As for the protestors – merely the usual suspects – and ‘Mancy’ ones at that !!

  • Sel

    Hum… My last post didn’t come up. In short…

    1. Idiots exist everywhere
    2. They don’t represent a demo of 50,000 people
    3. There are examples of violence everywhere… I have seen police violence against peaceful protesters and let’s not forget EDL firebombing mosques
    4. Besides which…If you cut services in such a way that it drastically impacts the livelihood of people, including poorer health services, soaring homelessness and dying people being forced to find work, people will be peeved and as much as some of us lament the days of the stiff upper lips, some people express fear and anger by shouting and protesting (not that it EVER excuses intimidation and racism – but WHO was giving racist abuse? Anti cuts is not just a “left” issue
    5. But sorry to hear you had trouble Sebastian..

  • Sel

    Though many responses to this blog (and no disrespect to the people who wrote them) seem really ill informed.

    How many of you have actually engaged with people on the left? Read their papers?

    Many of us are happy to speak to Tories (I have Tory friends and have debated with UKIP and EDL quite respectfully).

    Also… On what grounds are Labour socialist? Where does your definition of socialism come from? Not that some states who call themselves “socialist” (including National Socialists) or the fact that some politicians call themselves socialist when their politics are far from help the confusion.

  • keith

    wonder if the BBC would report such a thing, I doubt it, as we all know whenever there’s a piece on a march by our comrades and as the voice over tells us about the march the camera shows us the smiling small children with their parents happily carrying their little flags and banners so I have to conclude your terrible experience never happened, how could I possibly believe you when I can see with my own eyes those happy smiling faces on our unbiased BBC, you should be ashamed of yourself for making up such stories

  • Anita Bellows

    I was not there, but I can understand the abuse and the agression, although I do not condone it. The protestors are talking on behalf of people who cannot protest, because they are too sick to leave their house, too poor to afford the journey to Manchester and to frighten to stand up to the most ruthless UK government in history, worse than Thatcher. The truth has started to come out, the suicides of disabled people, the deaths in poverty of people declared fit for work by Atos on the orders of DWP.

    Would not you be angry and agressive if it was happening to a member of your family?
    It is not champagne socialism, it is the reality of Tory UK today.

    • HookesLaw

      Cobblers

      • Anita Bellows

        Good. I can see that the tories are out in force to put their arguments forward, which until now consists of 2 words. Why not disprove me by using DWP statistics for example. But they are not that good. After saying that 76% of people on disability benefits were fit to work, with a stricter test, it happens that 76% of them are entitled to their benefits. Check the DWP figures.

        Or maybe quoting the 1 million appeal against a fit for work decision, and the 43% which win their case, which does not include DWP reconsiderations. Check DWP figures. The figures are there for you to check, but will you?

    • Colonel Mustard

      Tripe.

    • http://twitter.com/MisGrace Julieann Carter

      And breathe….

      • Anita Bellows

        4 words. The tories are almost litterate.

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          That should be literate which you clearly are not.

          • Anita Bellows

            Absolutely true, but you know I am one of these scroungers, although not on benefits who are not British. How is your French?,

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              C’est parfait.

              • Anita Bellows

                Actually it is not. What did you use: Google translate or babylon? it is all about context you know, and I would have said, mon français est parfait, but who I am to say? after all I am just a translator.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  But you are clearly incapable of sensible thought.

                • Anita Bellows

                  I was just hoping that you will present an argued opinion, but you went for the spelling mistake. You have the interlocutors you deserve.

              • Anita Bellows

                Not one of you use DWP figures and stats to disprove what I said. Says it all, innit?

        • http://twitter.com/MisGrace Julieann Carter

          So anyone who condemns aggressive, mob-like behaviour – must be a *litterate* Tory?Instead of justifying bad behaviour, why don’t you apologise to Mr Young on your comrades behalf?

          • Anita Bellows

            No comrades. Fighting for the disabled. I do not belong to a party, an union or any organisation, only DPAC, Disabled people against cuts.

            • http://twitter.com/MisGrace Julieann Carter

              I’ve worked full-time for the NHS since 1998! Most of us do not incite ourselves to riot all over blog forums.

              Instead of ranting, while shamelessly using disabled people as a weapon to thrash us with – try reasoning, without at the same time ‘understanding’ thuggish behaviour?

              • Anita Bellows

                Shamelessly using disabled people?? Are you real? Why do you think I am part of DPAC?

                Where have you been all this time? Do you know about Atos, kiciking people off benefits, because they are found fit for work while the job centres found them too ill to work and deny them JSA? Which planet are you living on?t Check Clause 99 if you are really interested, but I doubt it

                • milliboot

                  you would be better employed learning to spell.

          • http://twitter.com/MisGrace Julieann Carter

            Oops! *Mr Payne, not Mr Young!

        • milliboot

          4 words.Anita, you are bonkers.

          • Anita Bellows

            Thanks,
            Another argued opinion.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Hi Julieann you will like my response!

    • Fergus Pickering

      You’ve left out the murder of innocent children and the rape of virgins.

  • paulthorgan

    “I’m very sure this gang of thugs are not representative of majority of those marching through Manchester.”

    This is, however, the true face of modern socialism in Britain.

  • John Smith

    That is the modern day left for you, stalinist

  • Penfold

    Welcome to the left, the political dogma that gave us the KGB and its predecessor NKVD, mental hospitals for dissidents, gulags and prison camps for enemies of the state.
    A little bit of intimidation and threatening behaviour is nothing new to the left, nor the occasional beatings.
    Had the political sides been reversed here you can be guaranteed that the screams and howls would have broken decibel meters.

  • Leon Spence

    Surely, the point is that all political movements at their extreme have some pretty revolting characters?
    Look no further than the height of the pro / anti hunting movemenst when there was obnoxious behaviour from small sections on both sides of the argument.
    I’m sure that whilst there might have been a small minority of idiots undertaking some fairly disreputable behaviour there were thousands peacefully protesting for a cause which many, many members of the public believe in.

    • HookesLaw

      No, not all political movements at their extreme, but all political extreme movements.
      I would find it an odd and scarecely believable coincidence if Mr Payne stumbled on the only the viscious lefty thugs on this march.

  • David Lindsay

    The complaints form on the BBC website has crashed due to the volume of people trying to complain at the blackout of this event. So much for not wanting to be filmed. If you are going to turn your hand to this kind of thing, then you are going to have a get a lot better at it.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Desperate stuff.

      • David Lindsay

        Well, it has happened. Twitter is now as angry about that as it is about the blackout itself. But I think that it is a tribute, of sorts.

        • Alexsandr

          yes the client electorate of Labour moaning the government isnt spending other peoples money on them.
          Tough isnt it?

          • David Lindsay

            And able to raise a bigger crowd than the Prime Minister.

            • Alexsandr

              I think the PM is above rabble in the street. In case you had forgotten, we elect people in the ballot box, not by lynch mobs in the street.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                He doesn’t do democracy.

                • David Lindsay

                  I certainly shall in 2015.

                  And there was but little democratic input into the coup of 2010.

                • HookesLaw

                  Pretending to rewrite history merely shows you to be stupid.

              • David Lindsay

                Or rabble anywhere else, there being so few delegates to his Party Conference, far fewer than the number of demonstrators outside.

                • Alexsandr

                  how many went to Brighton?

                • David Lindsay

                  That is your point of comparison, is it? “The Prime Minister couldn’t draw a crowd anywhere near that of Owen Jones, but at least he beat Ed Miliband”? If he did. I’d have to check.

              • milliboot

                The joke is these people on the “demonstration” are the usual suspects, the union members who will swear black is white to further their own ends.

            • Nicholas chuzzlewit

              As do Manchester United but the size of the crowd does not make them right.

              • David Lindsay

                Equating politics and football makes you sound like Tony Blair. Who knew nothing about either.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  I was not equating politics to football I was simply illustrating a point you sad little man. Labour gain, why not?

                • David Lindsay

                  Oh, do give it up. Considering how few people are delegates to this year’s Conservative Party Conference, everyone else seems to have given up.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  Labour gain, why not? Being insignificant with nobody listening really hurts you doesn’t it?

                • David Lindsay

                  Talking to yourself, I see.

                  Between 650 million and one billion people listening, in over 100 countries – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPj7yNieWHU

                  My first ever foray into television, and it was to an audience of that size. I have no idea how they had ever heard of me. But they had.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  You poor sad, deluded little man.

                • David Lindsay

                  How poor do I look on that clip? I am exactly as sad or as deluded as that.

                  As I asked a sad, deluded, and probably quite poor former editor of mine who had sent me a bitchy email about it, when were you last on television?

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  You poor thing. I am not somebody who needs his self-esteem raised by an appearance on television and you were chosen because of you Ascencion Island connection (so a pretty shallow pool to pick from I imagine) rather than your erudition. Your efforts wre typically wooden and prolix and that suit desrves a charge of GBH (Grievous Bad Haberdashery). I could recommend my Tailors but you couldn’t afford them.

                • David Lindsay

                  What, to buy the shop? Oh, I dunno…

                  But I am far too busy to be taking on anything like that. Not even for the comedy value.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  It is not a shop you idiot.

                • David Lindsay

                  Oh, I think it is. And while I might be ticking over nicely enough, I don’t think that I could stretch to an international chain of supermarkets, even if I had the time to run it.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  You think. No you don’t.

                • David Lindsay

                  All right, then. I know it is. And while I might be ticking over nicely enough, I don’t think that I could stretch to an international chain of supermarkets, even if I had the time to run it.

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  How (and this should be good) do you know?

                • David Lindsay

                  If you have to ask, then there is no point telling you. As everyone but you can see. Making the point a second time.

                • milliboot

                  Very shallow, judging by Mr Lindsay.

                • milliboot

                  Who were all of those people in the Hall then Dave ? nice try but you sound really childish !

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          Twitter is angry!! What shall we do? Is Stephen Fry about to explode? For answers to this and other pointless questions please visit the fevered imagination of Mr Nobody (D LIndsay). A tribute!!!! Priceless.

    • http://twitter.com/MisGrace Julieann Carter

      “2h Extraordinary image of anti-Tory pro-NHS march in Manchester today pic.twitter.com/fdQbEXk03g”

      • David Lindsay

        Bigger than the Conference. Greater Manchester Police say that, although it passed without incident, this was the biggest event that they had ever policed. Try telling that to the BBC, though.

        • Hugh

          Really? They must have short memories given they said 100,000 were there for Manchester City’s trophy parade last year and the same amount for the St Patrick’s Day parade the year before.

  • S&A

    The SWP are the scum of the earth.

    Google ‘Comrade Delta’ to see what they’re like.

    • David Lindsay

      But there are only about three of them. Not the 50 to 60 thousand who attended this demonstration, the lower figure in excess of delegates to the Conference itself. They turn up to everything and make a lot of noise, but that is all. In any case, the incidents described in this post do not ring true. Nice try.

      • S&A

        That’s three more people than you can promise in the ‘British People’s Alliance’, you tube.

        • David Lindsay

          I never had you down as an SWPer, I have to say. Erstwhile Straight Left, yes.

          A friend of mine refers to Nick Cohen as “Neon”, because Cohen is “a six-foot tube”. And to Oliver Kamm as “Gimlet”, “a small boring tool”.

          With even Charlie Falconer and Andrew Adonis lined up against Peter Mandelson, Philip Collins, Dan Hodges and John Rentoul, you High Blairite ultras have become a party of your own.

          You ought to constitute yourselves as such.

          Or join the one with which you agree. It is led by the Prime Minister, which is the only situation that can possibly interest you.

  • Ron Todd

    Just watching news on BBC no mention of any violence or threats of violence.

    • David Lindsay

      No mention of the thing at all, last time I checked. More people than at the Conference itself, but not a word.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        On the basis that trying to film it would likely get you beaten to a pulp, is it any surprise that it received no coverage. That was the gist of this blog by the way.

        • David Lindsay

          This blog is balls. Concocted for party political effect. The events described did not occur. I guarantee it. Note that RT had no difficulty filming this event, and that Twitter is going berserk with anger at the media blackout, especially by the BBC.

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            How can you “guarantee it”? Were you standing next to Mr Payne for the duration of his visit? Or are you accusing him of lying with no substantiating evidence? I suspect the latter because unsubstantiated and witless assertions are your stock in trade with never so much as a grain of evidence beyond “cos I said so”. You sound like a petulant child stamping his feet because somebody is debunking the saintliness of trades union representatives. “Party political effect”, nonsense it is just a journalist reporting his experiences on a particular day in a particular place you sad loser.

            • David Lindsay

              Rumbled, then. And rattled.

              Did he think that no one reading this would be able to see through it? Did you?

              You are never “just a journalist” on a Tory paper. They don’t work like that.

              His party handlers must be livid, but they have only themselves to blame. They sent a boy to do a man’s job.

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                You sad insignificant little man. Somebody says something you don’t like and its all a great conspiracy or a tissue of lies and all because you don’t like it. Journalists working for Tory papers are automatically corrupt wheras somebody working for the Mirror or Guardian is a saint of objectivity. I pity your feverish and deluded imagination. Labour gain, why not?

                • David Lindsay

                  I never said that…

            • S&A

              David Lindsay was talking with his buddy Martin Miller about how his seminal works on political theory are changing British politics.

              Even though no one’s ever read them.

          • HookesLaw

            Twitter may well be going berserk but the march is reported on the BBC website.
            The date and venue of the governing party’s conference is published well in advance and there is nothing to stop politically motivated trade unions organising their ritual protests.

          • Fergus Pickering

            How can you guarantee it, old fruit? And how much is your guarantee worth?

          • milliboot

            OOH ! is stephen flouncing ?

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      I suspect that any self preserving cameraman, BBC or otherwise, would prefer to avoid having his/her brains beaten out by TUC louts.

      • David Lindsay

        It turns out that the BBC was intimidated out of filming it by the Tories’ own security. This one wants looking into.

  • David Lindsay

    The SWP turns up to everything and behaves like this, but it is wholly parasitic on other people’s organisational efforts. Like the League of Empire Loyalists used to be. In several ways, in fact.

    Still, well done on mentioning this enormous demonstration at all. That is more than the BBC has managed.

    Not for the first time, we need to look elsewhere in order to find out what is happening in Britain – http://rt.com/in-motion/nhs-uk-cuts-march-509/

    Or in order to find out what is happening British citizens living on British territory – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPj7yNieWHU

    • perdix

      Why are you quoting Putin’s propaganda channel?

      • David Lindsay

        Whose would you prefer? The Beeb is clearly Cameron’s. Only out of loyalty to Blair. But that is enough.

  • John D Traynor

    You are very lucky you are still able to type. Tory scum can f*** off.

    • chudsmania

      What a real man you are, make sure the rock doesnt fall onto you when you climb back under.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Thankyou for proving my hypothesis about the difference between left and right. More importantly, it is interesting to discover that caves now come with an electricity supply and WiFi. Do you have a meter or pay by direct debit from your account at the Neanderthal Bank?

    • Ron Todd

      For similar comments watch any BBC ‘comedy’ panel show.

    • HookesLaw

      Gobsh!tes of the world unite

  • Cornelius Bonkers

    What, you’re shocked by the fact that thugs are drawn to such apparently good causes? Isn’t it strange how when a few members of the EDL start chucking stuff the entire enterprise gets a kicking; whereas when the unions do it then “disappointment” for the behaviour of a few rogue members is your only response? Before Thatcher introduced the secret ballot, open meetings where votes were taken were the norm. At these meetings intimidation of industrial workers by union convenors and their thugs was the method of choice. Why are you people so committed to this dangerous and half-witted way of going about things?

    • e2toe4

      These people are stuck in the mindset of the 1970s because that was the last time they felt they were even near seeing their views being accommodated in mainstream politics.

      They haven’t moved on at all, and even more difficult to understand they don’t seem to have realised that the ‘Thatcher years’, they so hate, was their single enduring achievement.

      It is very possible that without this kind of behaviour back then there may have been no Thatcher.

      What Thatcher v The Unions did show was this type of indulging in scum behaviour under a pretext of politics has no traction in this country, maybe they should go to Greece and join New Dawn, they’d fit right in at one of their meetings.

  • Nicholas chuzzlewit

    They sound like typical Labour voters to me. Not neccessarily in the sense that they were foul mouthed, semi-literate and threatening violence but in the sense that they are completely intolerant of any point of view or agenda that differs remotely from their own. I have no truck with Tony Blair but in his book (a Journey) he neatly encapsulates the leftist thought process which can be summarised as follows: ‘If you disagree with me you are not wrong you are evil’. This attitude is married to a sententiousness and sanctimony which clothes the leftist with an undeserved sense of unimpeachable moral superiority and the belief that voting Conservative, Lib Dem, UKIP etc etc is an unequivocal sign of greed, selfishness and moral turpitude. This is a powerful illusion lent credence by much of the media, particularly the BBC. It is an image that the Tories need to debunk as it allows the likes of Ed Milliband to make ludicrous promises and pose as the friend of the consumer/householder when he is anything but. I wish them luck with that.

    • telemachus

      They are far from Labour voters who by and large are more erudite and open to debate than the Right
      We need to be concerned that there increasing identity between the BNP, EDL, UKIP and the Tory right
      I think you will see more of this Tommy-ism blighting the streets of Manchester if the Tories get in again and are not moderated by coalition

      • Colonel Mustard

        “. . . Labour voters who by and large are more erudite and open to debate than the Right”

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eN3fxzn0ro

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          Just watched it. Brilliant.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        You need to keep taking your medication as this ‘contribution’ is even barmier than most of the nonsense you submit.

        • telemachus

          I happen to keep good personal relations with our local conservatives and raise a jar from time to time in their unduly palatial headquarters
          Some of the folk that drink there and call themselves activists are truly frightening
          They do not actually wear brown shirts

          • Nicholas chuzzlewit

            Two tablets, four times a day. I refuse to believe that your brain can cope with lifting a glass from a table to your mouth successfully.

            • telemachus

              Conservative councillor has been suspended from his party after attending a rally organised by the far right English Defence League

              Dr Blaine Robin was the subject of widespread speculation after being spotted at the group’s meeting in Southend, Essex, earlier this year.

              An internal investigation will now be held by the Conservatives to decide whether he should be permanently expelled from the party, although leading Tories said they believed the controversy to be an ‘error of judgment’

              You see they just cannot decide that the EDL are reprehensible

              • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                But up your dosage to 4 tablets 8 times a day.

                • telemachus

                  As I said
                  Fossilised in the past
                  You are clearly one of the nations silver spoons
                  The rest realise that the socialist creed is the only one to result in fairness for the masses
                  Your philosophy denies adequate healthcare for those unfortunate enough to be both sick and poor

                • george

                  I work for a living
                  I’m a member of unite
                  I’ve been threatened by my ‘brothers’ to the point I reported it and s0d all was done. I was told to ‘just leave it’.

                  Didnt see much fairness there

                • telemachus

                  If you put it in a reasoned email it has to be answered

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  10 tablets 20 times a day.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  If anyone here is fossilised in the past it is you, in the Kremlin, in about 1938.

          • Colonel Mustard

            “They do not actually wear brown shirts”

            Hardly surprising since the brown shirts were national socialists rather than Conservatives.

            I find you frightening. Your capacity for dissembling, distorting, misrepresenting and inciting hatred here is seriously disturbing.

          • Mark Cooper

            The evidence of this board calls into question your claim to have ‘good personal realtions’ with anyone, never mind people with opposing views.

          • JackyTreehorn

            Scary Tories you must be having a laugh.
            What do they talk about? militant jumble sales. Liar.

      • Cornelius Bonkers

        T, you have to be joking don’t you? There is a fundamental difference between socialism and conservatism; and that’s that unlike the latter the former CAN’T be open to debate. There is no room in socialist ideology for taking into consideration conservative habits of looking back to learn from the past, and looking forward to protect the future. The poverty of socialism is to be armed with a road map laid down in their founding theology which allows neither reflection nor caution. Socialists’ delight in blinkered progress down this road; a shortcoming which violates the most fundamental presupposition of an open society – to recognise the imperfection of man and the need to value the wisdom the past, and, where appropriate, the interests of the future…

        • telemachus

          “taking into consideration conservative habits of looking back to learn from the past, and looking forward to protect the future”
          Conservatism by definition actually means fossilised in the past

          • Alexsandr

            do you think spouting this b0110cks actually helps your lefty cause, or discredits it.
            do not attempt to write on both sides of the papaer at the same time.

            • telemachus

              I am not sure you understand the damage the uncaring Tory creed does to the health andeducation of the disadvantaged
              Worse you do not care
              Mustard would say my mask is slipping but in truth you are dangerous and require a solution

              • Alexsandr

                dissenters vill he shot, ya?

              • Colonel Mustard

                Your mask came off about the time you were telling us what a wonderful leader Stalin was, how the end is justified by any means and that the massacre of innocents is justified in order to achieve authoritarian socialist dystopia.

                • telemachus

                  You refer back to war
                  War against the murderous forces of reaction whose former ruling elite starved the poor in millions
                  And while we consider the man do not forget he saved you and me from the fascist hegemony in Europe

                • Colonel Mustard

                  No, I do not. There was no war when Stalin fabricated the famine in the Ukraine or presided over persecutions and purges within his own state. 26 countries have identified the Holodomor as genocide. 10 million deaths are attributable to Stalin’s regime. Hard to equate your justification and/or dismissal of that with your boasts of “caring”.

                  “War against the murderous forces of reaction whose former ruling elite starved the poor in millions”

                  False. Learn some proper objective history. The worst Tsarist famine led to no more than 400,000 deaths. Stalin’s Ukrainian famine cost the lives of 5 million. So it was Stalin’s regime which “starved the poor in millions”.

                  “And while we consider the man do not forget he saved you and me from the fascist hegemony in Europe”

                  No he didn’t and to make that boast is to demean and disrespect the sacrifice of a multitude of nations including our own. In Eastern Europe he replaced one fascist hegemony with another that endured for 44 years in no small part due to the treasonous behaviours of people like you.

                  Like most socialists when it comes to it you are just full of sh*t.

                • telemackus

                  Although we progressive national socialists were defeated in the 40s, the 50s the 60s, the 70s, the 80s and the 90s, we only jus lost 3 years ago and will be back to recreate the glories of the 30s once again.

                • loftytom

                  Stalin, tyat’s the old chunt who supplied Hitler with war materiel with which to attack us.
                  The old chunt who oversaw red imperialism which ruled eastern Europe.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  I love that word. Chunt is here to stay.

                • HJ777

                  Stalin was allied to the Nazis until they attacked the Soviet Union.

                  He was complicit in carving up Poland and ordered mass murder (the Katyn massacre).

                • Nicholas chuzzlewit

                  And murdered millions of his own people.

              • joshuafalken

                telemachus – I am not sure you understand what £4.7 trillion of unfunded state and civil service pensions left by Ed, Ed and Gordon means to the gerrymandered beneficiaries of Labour’s unending largesse.

                Every Labour government has ended in financial disaster for the very people they are supposed to serve while enriching themselves – look at millionaire Bliar, Mandleson, Brown, Miliband, Balls, Umunna etc.

                You are being taken for a mug again

              • Mark Cooper

                “Require a solution”? The mask is slipping, but don’t worry, everyone knew what was behind it.

                • telemachus

                  Sadly for some words are not enough

              • telemackus

                Only progressive national socialist ideas and values musty be taught to our young. In this we have the full support of the teachers unions and the lovely Stephanie Twigg.

                • SPW

                  I am a tory and a teacher. Are you going to shut me up? I will not ‘reeducate’ children with socialist ideas and values. Obviously since you can’t win your ‘war of words’ with adults, you decide to target children do you? Nice.

                • telemackus

                  Read my alter ego’s posts here then go to a dictionary and look up irony.

                • SPW

                  Oh please.

              • spike

                Can the caring labour party who oversaw the 1400 needless deaths in Mid Staffs ever be trusted to run the

              • Fergus Pickering

                Labour did nothing for the health and education of the disadvantaged. Go on. Tell me one thing Tony or Gordon did. Too busy getting rich (Tony) or getting even (Gordo)..

            • Susan Smith

              Typical response if you’re unable to debate and act as an adult go to bed.

          • Colonel Mustard

            A silly response which both contradicts your boast that Labour voters are “more erudite and open to debate than the Right” and confirms Mr Bonkers appraisal of your blinkered dogma.

            • telemachus

              It is actually worse
              If you do not move forward you regress, certainly in social terms
              We see this in the history of successive Tory Governments

              Further
              In 2002 the arch-moderniser Francis Maude wrote: “We are widely believed to be the party of caste and privilege, and therefore by definition unable to understand the dayto- day concerns of ordinary people . . . the stereotype persists: if you are a Conservative MP, you must be white and male, have been at a posh public school and be rich.”

              Ten years on, that is still true, and it’s the reason why Cameronism is an unfinished revolution. The modernisers “get” the problem, but efforts to address it have been uneven and too limited. The deficit makes it tough

              • Colonel Mustard

                You conflate “forward movement” with progress with improvement, a common socialist trait. I wouldn’t cite Maude as any kind of defining authority since he is so typical himself of the caste and privilege that is unable to understand the day-to-day concerns of ordinary people. Therefore he is hardly the best architect of Tory “modernisation” which has been cack handed anyway.

                True modernisation would be to re-cast conservative values in a narrative that resonates and persuades today, that challenges the socialist pretence that has been proven to fail everywhere it has been tried. All Maude and his ilk have done is to pursue a few socialist causes, alienate Tory grass roots and buy into some of the socialist groupthink. That is not modernisation it is conceding territory to your enemy at the same time as you are undermining your own side.

                Stupid, privileged Tory grandees of the type who back-stabbed Thatcher. It is they the party needs to purge.

                • telemachus

                  I find it difficult to dissect just what you might believe except Makhnovism which ripples through your posts and which in my eyes is factual description not abuse
                  Yes some socialist experiments have failed
                  But failed because of greed
                  However the process when applied has changed society and left the majority of the people better off
                  Remember there are those that called Robert Fitzwalter a socialist

                • Colonel Mustard

                  You do not need to “dissect” what I believe. Let it go. You cannot control other peoples beliefs. There is no groupthink here. Most of the commentators want to be free from your brand of triumphalist authoritarian socialism which attempts to coerce conformity. You were peddling that from day one when you tried to force your ridiculous “charter” on the old Wall. You just have a political opinion, one amongst many, not a divine right to rule.

                  As for Makhnovism words almost fail me. There is absolutely nothing in any of my posts that advocates “highly decentralized communes run by peasants and workers”. I am not opposing the state, political parties or bureaucracy although I am suspicious and critical of much of what they do nowadays and in favour of limiting their power over us. I am not an anarchist. You are peddling yet another misrepresentation under yet another label. You are possibly the most dishonest commentator here and I wonder if it is even possible for you to engage without your labels of hate, the same demonisation of perceived “enemies” practiced by every authoritarian socialist regime in history including of course the NSDAP.

                  Socialism in Britain has been a disaster. Most of the successes and achievements it claims are either false or attributable to political parties that existed long before the Labour party was even established. It is more destructive than progressive and most of its causes as pursued have brought a plethora of unintended consequences far worse than the “wrongs” that supposedly went before. It is an arrogant, triumphalist, dogmatic creed larded with self-importance, bogus moral superiority, hubris and above all hypocrisy. The majority of its most ardent advocates are deluded and thoroughly unpleasant people. I have not encountered one where my reaction is to think “You are a decent human being”. Very apt that the Fabian society symbol is a wolf in sheep’s clothing – that precisely represents most socialists who pretend to be what they are not by cloaking their essential evil in boastful moral superiority. As you do. The leaders of the creed in Britain are mostly privileged millionaires from a set of increasingly dynastic socialist grandees that share your delusion of being more religious movement than political party. The whole “movement” in its behaviour and activities is more “King John” than “Robert Fitzwalter”. And it is ironic that New Labour managed to undermine most of what Magna Carta had achieved for the English.

                  So no more lectures, hectoring or missionary zeal from the likes of you, no more labels or demonisation. You show some respect for once, wind your neck in and back off. This is supposedly a democracy with pluralism in politics and the right for people to express dissenting political opinions without being bombarded by your coercive nonsense all the time.

                • telemackus

                  It is unfortunate that this hated conservative junta has improved the living standards of so money. We will reverse this in our glorious victory in 2015.

              • joshuafalken

                “If you do not move forward you regress”

                Every Labour Government has ended in financial turmoil

                Before the conference Labour’s website used to list their five core values as social justice, strong community and strong values, reward for hard work, decency and rights matched by responsibilities.

                Seeing as Labour have clearly failed so spectacularly on all five counts, especially decency, it is no surprise the nasty party has finally dropped the pretence.

                So should you

                • telemachus

                  I do not understand completely your last sentence
                  I read the Telegraph and did not make the same equation with the nasty party as you

              • telemackus

                It is unfortunate that Maude spoke of our comrades Blair, Balls, Harman, Miliband, Cooper, Benn, Twigg, Burthem and MacShane but we will rise again to defeat the reactionary forces of conservatism for ever.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  Oh, I get it now, you’re a post-modern ironist; A bit of a joker eh T? Well done, you got me going for a minute…

                • spike

                  Its a shame the 1400 dead in mid staffs on labours watch wont rise again.

              • Fergus Pickering

                If you do not move forward you stay where you were. If there is a cliff edge in front of you that is a very sensible option.

          • telemackus

            We look to our own glorious past in the 30s to provide a path to the 4th empire and a 1000 years of national socialism.

            • Cornelius Bonkers

              Again T, you’ll have to clarify; your irony bamboozles me. Come on, give us something to communicate with…

              • telemackus

                There is but one telemackus. All others are imposters sent by the enemy to confuse. We speak the truth while the spawn of Damien spread lies. Trust only this red rose won by right of conquest. Any other is an imitation.

                • Cornelius Bonkers

                  My bicycle is outside

          • Cornelius Bonkers

            T, are you really sure about this? Given your obvious devotion to ancient myth, your somewhat vulgar remark seems to be highly appropriate. Socialism is a myth too, a modern one; a myth that given a chance we can all “make it” if only we stick to the road map given to us by the socialist priesthood (Ed’s pappi for example). In socialism the past is in deed forgotten in favour of a quasi-Christian New Jerusalem “fossilised” somewhere in the future. Self-evidently, Dead Ed is thinking along these lines …back to the future where he finally links arms with his Dad, Bob Crow, and the poor working class mutts who have fallen for the myth of the road to socialism…

          • Fergus Pickering

            No it doesn’t. Conservatives conserve things. But then you are Humpty Dumpty.

        • Susan Smith

          remind me of the political persuasion of the protestors causing the most trouble and inconvenience in Manchester? yes that would be The two tories ejected from their own conference.

          • Mark Cooper

            Did they spit on anyone or threaten them? Thought not. Socialism is evil. Socialists are either stupid or scum; the right in the UK has been far too timid in making this argument.

          • Cornelius Bonkers

            Yo S, I’m afraid your point escapes me. All I would say is that conservatives wouldn’t for a minute claim any purity or self-righteousness in relation to the imperfection of man. A conservative fundamental would be that there are arse…les across the political and social spectrum so Manchester should surprise no one… But I still fail to grasp your point…

      • MikeBrighton

        I note your conflating of the BNP and EDL with UKIP and the Tory right. Your post simply proves @Nicholas’ case

        • telemachus

          That entirely depends on the reality of Truth
          This is not a matter of belief
          It is incontrovertible fact

          • telemackus

            We are great believers in truth, even if it is a lie.

      • HJ777

        You’ve never read the comments section below Guardian articles then?

        Many of the commenters simply assert that Tories are evil.

        A large majority simply assert views that are easily contradicted by reference to facts and react with ad hominem attacks if anyone points this out. For them, facts are only acceptable if they agree with their pre-conceived opinion.

        • telemachus

          Yes that is true of most posters on most blogs
          The views of socialists however are rooted in caring for fellow man and as such warrant respect

          • Colonel Mustard

            You earn respect you do not demand it. The views of socialists are mostly rooted in a form of deluded narcissism as you demonstrate here in almost every thread.

          • McRobbie

            I have stood out of this so called debate between you and the more enlightened contributors to this post, but to read your bluster about socialists being rooted in care for fellow man has raised my ire. There is nothing about socialism except the name being loosely based on society that relates to care for their fellow man / woman. It is clear all the society socialists want is their version of big nanny state in which they retain the POWER to decide what their fellow man is to get even when it contradicts, as it always does, with the wishes of the freedom of the individual. We are all equal but the socialists in power are more equal than any one else.

      • telemackus

        Nothing must stand in the way of our progressive national socialist movement. We must remove reactionary tories, their supporters and the press who do not support Ed and Ed. Onward to the 4th empite and a 1000 years of national socialism.

      • Reborn

        Your sense of navigation between Left & Right leaves me concerned that you might drive some sort of vehicle on our roads.

    • HookesLaw

      Intollerance is a trademark of extremists.

      • Colonel Mustard

        But you are very intolerant of conservative views that don’t match yours are you not?

    • aanpakkuh

      But Labour and TUC are not bothered at all by this behaviour because their comrades at the BBC and Guardian will keep it off the radar screen. Perhaps it should be tweeted thousands times over to encourage BBC and Guardian to at least look into it, which still does not require the independent thinking to also report it.

    • MrVeryAngry

      Simples.
      ‘Socialism is a philosophy of moral and economic bankruptcy’.
      Repeat ad infinitum.

    • Nedicus

      Yes, because Labour voters regularly buy the Socialist Worker newspaper which is the house organ of the Socialist Workers’ Party, a party which is almost as aggressive toward Labour as it is to the Tories. But let’s not let that get in the way of you’re attempt to tenuously link these individuals with Labour.

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        It is simply a comment based on my own personal experience which seems to have found some resonance with readers of this thread. But let’s not let that get in the way of you being a sanctimonious, intolerant left-wing bore.

        • Nedicus

          I have no problem with people criticizing the intolerance that exists in some parts of the Labour Party, but trying to draw a link between the bigotry of the far-left and of rank and file Labour party voters is as disingenuous as someone trying to link the Tory voters to the BNP. Most Labour people I am sure are good people who are supporting what they believe to be good policies as I am sure are most Tory voters do to. You are looking very like what you are trying to condemn.

  • http://i-squared.blogspot.co.uk/ Katabasis

    You’re far too kind. I think this kind of thuggery is much more common than you may realise.
    I’m not a Tory and I am no particular fan of the party or the government. However I do have Tory friends. I distinctly remember sitting with them at Sheffield University students’ union screening of the general election results as they were coming in. They of course cheered whenever a Tory win or hold was reported. It wasn’t long before abuse, food and even broken glass started making it our way in regular fashion.
    Afterwards three of us were followed home by a mob “shouting ‘shame on you! Shame on you for voting blue!’
    Not one of us had voted Tory.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      You have observed at first hand the difference between the left and the right. If you disagree with the right they think you are wrong heade, misguided or stupid. If you disagree with the left they think you are irredeemably evil and must be destroyed.

  • Russell

    Maybe the health care ‘workers’ (sic) were taking a sickie from their duties of protecting young children from abuse and murder, protecting the elderly in care homes, and those who practised their ‘caring’ on patients in Stafford NHS!
    Thugs and scum have a home in Socialist parties, particularly those like labour.

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