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Nigel Farage Comes to the Brave New Scotland

17 May 2013

11:33 AM

17 May 2013

11:33 AM

I am not quite sure I understand why Nigel Farage opted to launch UKIP’s Aberdeen by-election campaign in Edinburgh. Then again, UKIP are a puzzling party. In any event, it all went rather well.

Not just because forcing Nigel Farage to “flee” and take “sanctuary” in a pub is the kind of hardship up with which the UKIP leader can fondly put, but rather because the sight of Mr Farage being jostled and shouted down by left-wing “radicals” is one of the few things liable to provoke some measure of sympathy for UKIP north of the border.

UKIP thrives on farce and chaos. The goons from something calling itself the “Campaign for Radical Independence” ensured that a visit that would otherwise passed almost un-noticed received plenty of coverage. Heckuva job, lads. But what else is to be expected from folk who swank around the place shouting “You’re a racist, go home to England” ? You’d almost think this stunt was planned by the boys from The Daily Mash.

All this was tedious and typical student juvenilia. More interesting was the reaction to this mini-brouhaha. Across Twitter and Facebook nationalists and lefties chirped their satisfaction. No platform for Farage in Scotland! Whae’s like us?! We are, you see, “genetically allergic to windbags (and xenophobes)“.

As it happens I have little time for UKIP’s politics but this is scarcely the point. No-one is quite as unbearably smug as a Scotsman convinced of his moral superiority. Not even an Englishman. The unco guid were out in force yesterday and proved as revolting a sight as always. It is not enough to disagree with Mr Farage’s politics, you see, it is important that he be denied the opportunity to even make his point. It is, yet again, a question of standing.

The hounding of Farage is a reminder that Scotland  – or at least Scottish politics – is not quite as generous, open-minded and tolerant* a place as it likes to fancy itself. There is, it seems, a narrow spectrum of views deemed acceptable or legitimate. Anyone who falls outside that range can be ignored or, better still, suppressed.

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Now the SNP and UKIP are certainly different beasts but it seems obvious that one reason UKIP has failed to win support in Scotland is that Scotland already has a well-established and well-organised nationalist party. If SNP MSPs pretty much run the gamut from Tartan Tories to Tartan Trots via Republicans and orthodox Social Democrats, their voters are more diverse still. The SNP is no longer just a party of protest but a good dollop of its support remains predicated upon dissatisfaction with the Tories and Labour alike.

Equally, many SNP votes are cast as a declaration of cultural affinity or as an expression of national difference. In this limited respect too they (or some of them anyway) are closer to UKIP votes than the party leadership (or large parts of the Tartan commentariat) would like you to believe. It is not so much a question of policy as of mentality.

As David Torrance wrote last week, the parties:

[A]re similar in terms of impetus, rhetoric and leadership, not their respective policy agendas. Compare and contrast the following: ‘We believe in the right of the people of the UK to govern ourselves, rather than be governed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.’ (N. Farage) It is ‘fundamentally better for us all, if decisions about Scotland’s future are taken by the people who care most about Scotland, that is, by the people of Scotland.’ (Independence Declaration)

For some reason pointing this out annoys Scottish nationalists. Ironies abound. For instance, UKIP’s definitional policy – leaving the EU – would scarcely be considered controversial in Norway, a land the SNP frequently cite as an example of what an independent Scotland could and should aspire to be. Yet, in a Scottish or British context, this is considered the stuff of lunatic extremism.

The evidence available at this juncture suggests leaving the EU is a less popular notion in Scotland than it is in England. Nevertheless polls report that roughly one in three Scottish voters would opt to leave the EU. Observant psephologists will note that this is not wildly different to the proportion who favour withdrawing from the United Kingdom. It is not obvious that one of these ideas is a priori absurd and the other plainly common sense.

And so we now see Alex Salmond arguing, with a straight face, that the best way for Scotland to ensure it remains within the EU is to vote to leave the UK.  Well, maybe. It is certainly true that the Conservative’s european policy is a shambles (a subject to which we shall return later) but, then again, you could say something similar about the SNP’s outline of exactly how an independent Scotland would mesh with the rump UK (to say nothing of Brussels).

Anyway, the hounding of Nigel Farage will have done UKIP no harm. But it was still a depressing reminder that Scotland is sometimes a smaller place than we like to think it. And if nothing else, labelling Farage and his party “fascist scum” leaves you with no vocabulary with which to describe actual fascists. It debases the coinage, if you will, and running folk out of town is a queer way of demonstrating your “progressive” credentials.

*Tolerance means putting up with things you find disagreeable, not with views you actually like.

 

 

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Show comments
  • Junis

    I am a briton of Pakistani descent and not only do I think the Scots are nicer but also morally superior to Englanders. :)

    • terregles2

      The Scots are not any nicer than the English. The Scots are like the English, French, Germans, Welsh, irish, Dutch, Israelis and Pakistanis just like every nation on this plaent they are a mixture of good bad and indifferent people.

  • terregles2

    Perhaps Alex Massie will now write a piece about Ron Northcott and the brave new England. We look forward to it.

  • Oberver

    Not a lot of difference really between SNP and BNP, they are just on opposite sides of the border.

  • hereward

    Salmond wants to leave Britain but keep the pound AND stay in the EU Empire .

    He calls that Independence . LOL . You could not make it up.

    Andy Murray caused a stir when he said he was supporting Uruguay against England in a World cup match . Murray however lives in Oxted not Montevideo .Yeah right . Scotland’s best export is whisky and their worst politicians . Bliar and McDoom for example . It seems that a diet of haggis, bagpipes, and porridge is a fine breeding ground for incestuous tartan navel gazing .

    • dercavalier

      No my son it is the diet of deep fried chip butties, Camerbum, Asborne, Millipede, Cleggs, prancing dancing men in bowbells, constant failures at football, rugby and cricket (what’s that?) which makes Stinkland the land of no hope and never will be glory

      • Noa

        A very nasty racist and bigoted post, completely worthy of you.

        • vieuxceps2

          To “dercavalier”-Obvously not a linguist—Camerbum,Asborne,Millipede,bowbells(?),Stinkland.

          Is this a product of the Scottish inventive spirit,or are you only twelve years old?

  • dercavalier

    Obviously most of the English sink estate dwellers who comment on this rag are not aware that the protestors were English AND Scots and that the lead organiser, who was arrested, is an Englishman. Now then will we have assorted nasty comments about the English from the brain dead knuckle draggers from England?

    • Wessex Man

      Yes totally back to type you ignorant racist slug.

      • dercavalier

        In your earlier posts I noted that you were trying to show the ‘reasonable’ side of UKIP. But alas the inner racist bigoted beast had to gain an outlet to rear its ugly head.

        • Wessex Man

          what, in pointing out what a nasty, racist, ranting two bob clown you are makes me a racist? I bet you were there mobbing Nigel Farage but not quite at the front and not at the middle but nicely tucked away at the back as all cowards are.

          • Noa

            Yes, I thought that too. But the RIS rentamob had nice Edinburgh accents, somehow I can’t imagine this one being a couth lout.

          • terregles2

            We all know that you are not a coward whatever else you are. You are right up at the front defending Northcott and his sidekick Farage.
            You might need to be up front again defending Northcott it seems perhaps some anti catholic remarks need to be explained…. whatever next?

  • terregles2

    Perhap we will have a comment about the remarks made by the UKIP supporter

    He tweeted ” Amazed that 50 Jocks could get out of bed that early it’s not signing on day is it, or is the chemist open.

    • dercavalier

      He made a LOT more nasty racist tweets against the Scots. Is Farage going to ask him to resign?

      • terregles2

        It would seem that denigrating the Scots is alright and goes unnoticed. Scots can be insulted and that is no problem.
        Just don’t let anyone ever say a word against any English person then we have a national crisis.
        The fact that one of the arrested demonstrators was English did nothing to stop the Scottish abuse.

        • Wessex Man

          The other fact was that he livwes in Scotland, your own SNP Government report five months ago recorded a 23% increase in the number of white on white racial crime, don’t try to tell me you can find any such figure for England!

          • Noa

            Yes, it’s been pointed out to them many times, Wessex Man.

            And still, answer came there none!

          • terregles2

            Scotland has never had nor will it ever have a candidate standing for any political party that would spout the abuse and hatred of any other nation that Northcott did. His abuse of the Scots was truly disgraceful. If you had substituted the word JOCK for some other race he would ptobably have been charged by the police.
            The saddest part of it all was that Farage did not reprimand him and English people like yourself do not condemn it either.

      • Wessex Man

        Are the Raving Loony Party going to ask you to resign?

    • Wessex Man

      He’s so famous that I have never heard of him!

      • terregles2

        He is a racist member of the racist party you support a canditate for Plymouth. Are you saying that because you have never heard of him his disgusting racist abuse of the Scots does not matter?
        I am sure the biased BBC and Britnat media will not give it any coverage they will still be trying to get full mileage from Farage being shouted at in the street.

    • dercavalier

      Latest on this is that after having been exposed in Wings over Scotland, qv. Ron Northcote, from Plymouth (not Wessex Man perchance?) has resigned and fled the scene. And that man was a TEACHER of children FFS. No wonder there is so much racism in England when they allow racists to teach children.

      • terregles2

        Don’t think it will get much coverage in the English media. it is only a bit of JOCK bashing so it doesn’t really matter. Can you imagine if any Scottish politician had abused another nation like that. We would have had half the London media rushing up to cover the story.
        The racist little Northcott was lucky he used the word JOCK if he had substituted another word from other groups that UKIP also hate he might have been charged.

  • terregles2

    Why was Farage in a pub in the first place. Politicians usually book a proper venue to speak at with a platform where it is easy for the police to keep order.
    Did he set up the whole situation for publicity.

    • Noa

      Scotland is a free country of course, so why shouldn’t he be in a pub?
      Oh I forgot, he’s English, so it’s fine to carry on the old tradition of violence and anglophobia.

      • terregles2

        We are all a bit puzzled that he had come north to support the UKIP canditate for Aberdeen. Aberdeen is over 120 miles from Edinburgh so it seems strange to campaign for an Aberdeen seat in an Edinburgh pub. Maybe he thought he would get more publicity in Scotland’s capital city. Maybe he came up to orchestrate a situation.
        Whatever his motives he has certainly gained plenty of media attention.
        Perhaps he might now take the time to have a word with one of his party members Ron Northcott and ask him to stop spewing anti Scottish bile on twitter or perhaps Farage also sees anti Scottish abuse as quite alright

    • Noa

      Why shouldn’t he be? That he can speak in a pub in England without police protection says more about Scotland and its encouragement of the slow death of democracy than it does about him.

  • Mike, Dalian

    Infrastructure works are being touted as a possible means of reviving the economy. One possibility would be to move Hadrian’s wall a bit further north and make it a lot higher …

    • dercavalier

      Yes to keep you southern bastards OUT.

      • Mike, Dalian

        2,000 years ago, when Hadrian built the wall, he know exactly who had to be kept out. Nothing has changed.

      • Noa

        As an argument for the dissolution of the Union you have provided an intellectual tour de force.
        Why should anyone want to argue against it?

  • CraigStrachan

    Scotland hasn’t taken a Nigel to heart since Tranter.

  • taranaich

    “But what else is to be expected from folk who swank around the place shouting “You’re a racist, go home to England” ?”
    “No-one is quite as unbearably smug as a Scotsman convinced of his moral superiority. Not even an Englishman.”

    I can’t believe these sentences were in the same piece. For someone pillyoring the so-called intolerance of the Scots, there’s an awful lot of sweeping national generalisations in this post.

    • dercavalier

      Well there is one who is “… unbearably smug as a Scotsman convinced of his moral superiority …” and his name is Alex Massie.
      And pray tell Mr Massie why you went on a Scottish TV programme last night and compounded the lies in your article by not admitting that the scragging Group were a mixture of Labour supporting students from Edinburgh U and Labour activists. You persisted with your lies implying that it was somehow linked to Scottish Nationalism.

      • terregles2

        Alex Massie is now writing a piece about Ron Northcott and the brave new England. We can all look forward to it tomorrow.

    • keaton

      Yes. It’s especially nice how he mocks the mob’s blindness to irony, immediately before demonstrating his own obliviousness.

      • Wessex Man

        Mr Massie seems to have a short attention problem.

  • HenBroon
  • ian t

    I am in favour of an independent Scotland, by that I mean not ruled by Westminster, and definitely not ruled by Brussels. An actual independent Scotland; like Norway, Iceland and Switzerland; an independent European country trading with the EU, not ruled by it.

    This embarrassing protest in Edinburgh; where Farage was prepared to debate with the protesters who refuse to discuss; they just shout abuse, showed Scottish people to be completely ignorant about Scotland and its relationship with the EU. Who is pro-democracy here? UKIP stand primarily for independence for the UK; independence from the remote corrupt undemocratic EU; Although I am pro- Scottish independence (and pro gay marriage for that matter), I am prepared to listen to Farage, and I think the Scots should pay heed to what he said (the bit that the SNP won’t discuss and what the BBC avoid publishing); Scotland cannot be an independent country if it is ruled by Brussels; like it or not that is a fact. Eu law is supreme over state law, and Scotland as a new member state will have no UK opt-outs and will be required to adopt the Euro.

    The protesters attack Farage who is campaigning to get a referendum to let the people of the UK decide if they should be ruled by Brussels or not. Meanwhile the useful idioots are quite happy to ignore the fact that if they vote YES, the SNP will refuse to let the Scottish people decide if they should be ruled by Brussels or not; the protesters are idiots!

    What Farage was pointing out was that the YES campaign and the Scottish referendum is not about independence for Scotland; it is about choosing between being ruled by Westminster with its UK opt-outs or having Scotland even further under of the EU. “Independence in Europe” they say; by Europe they mean EU, not a continent, but rather an undemocratic political system. Vote YES and Scotland’s resources get divided up among the other 27 member states as Salmond sacrifices Scotland to EU bureaucrats.

    People of Scotland need to grow up, listen to people first then decide what is best. If only Scots people had the intelligence and the guts to go for independence and not be sold down the river by the SNP, and the YES campaign.

    I want an independent Scotland so I cannot be a UKIP supporter; but what UKIP propose is a lot closer to independence than the folly that the SNP are going to inflict on Scotland should they get the mandate of the YES vote. Farage is campaigning to get a referendum to lete the people of the UK decide if they should be ruled by Brussels or not.

    • terregles2

      Has any other politician ever gone into a pub to have a logical political debate. It seems a bit of a contradiction in terms

      • ian t

        Pubs have traditionally been the place where political discussions took place and new political parties have been formed. Seems refreshing to me that a politician today is embracing that rather than trying to close pubs down.

        The 50 or so lynch mod seemed to be out in the street; or are you thinking that they just happened to be the locals who frequent the pub?

  • http://twitter.com/wariotifo Chapman Baxter

    no vocabulary left for actual fascists? the term ‘scottish conservative & unionist party’ has served just fine for some time now

    • Noa

      SNP and Scottish Labour party fit the bill just fine.

  • JustAnOtherRandomGit

    Ha, and you’ve left comments on. Good luck!

  • terregles2

    I wonder what sort of response Mr Massie thinks that any EU politician who came to London advocating less power for the London government in Europe would receive?
    That is what Mr Farage is advocating for the Edinburgh parliament.

    Cannot believe that this has attracted any comment at all. Thatcher emerged from the Brighton bombing saying business as usual. Some people shout at Nigel and he storms off in a strop. I would hate to see him in a crisis.

    • Noa

      Actually he’s pointing out that a Scotland out of the Union but subject to rule by Brussels is a new Cyprus in the making.
      With Wee Alex and his mates acting as their and your Gaulieters.

      But keep on sticking your fingers in your ears and going ‘La la la’….

      • terregles2

        That is the opinion of Mr Farage. I completely disagree. You are very arrogant to suggest that those of us who see things differently have our fingers in our ears and going la la la.

        • Noa

          You have every right to disagree. Just as I have to disagree with your false accusation that UKIP “…are blatantly racist over immigration.”

          Regaining control over the UK’s borders and the associated unsustainable costs of mass migration is clearly our right and can no longer be suppressed by the stalinist accusation of ‘racism’.
          The vast majority of inward migrants live in England so I am surprised at your interference in matters from which you want independence.
          Why is that?
          Do you consider perhaps that migrant restrictions in a future UK would apply to Scots from an independent Scotland?

      • allymax bruce

        Massie came on BBC and blamed it all on militant socialists, radicals, students; not one word about how it was a Labour ‘operation’gone wrong!
        This whole episode has done wonders for SNP and Scottish independence!
        Luv it; Labour shoot their own fox!
        Nearly forgot; la la la la,. ………

  • dercavalier

    The Farage Fuck up. Fifty or so University students and Labour Activists scrag the Leader of the racist UKIP and suddenly it is the Nuremberg Rally all over again in the English media. Thank God that for once the BBC had the balls to challenge Farage’s version of events. This was a non-event, and it is sad to see the Spectator thinking it should comment on the non-issue. Get a life Massie there are far more important happenings in the world.
    And I’ve had a really enjoyable day today reading the racist comments by the English below the line in the Guardian’s and Telegraph’s articles. They are full of racism and xenophobia by the English supporters of UKIP and the general anti-Scottish English, against the Scots, members of the EU, the Blacks, the Muslims the Homosexuals, the Feminists, you name a group and they are railing against it.
    What hypocrisy? Only a few weeks ago these very same people in conjunction with Massie were whining and whinging that the Scots were racist towards the English. In the words of another well known English racist and xenophobe you couldn’t make it up.

    • terregles2

      Now that one of the demonstrators has turned out to be English it rather shows that the demonstration was anti UKIP policy rather than anti English.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Derick-Tulloch/100002550114410 Derick Tulloch

      Forgot the Irish. UKIP are the party of the man, three sheets to the wind, in the golf club. Fact.

      • dercavalier

        No, the Irish like the Jews are now taboo to insult racially excepting UKIP members of course..

    • Wessex Man

      totally reverted back to type, no surprise there then.

  • Nae a Belger

    Alex – agreed. The Radical Indy people have not done Independence any favours.
    Or does our tolerance only extend to those, as you say, that we like

  • nationalexistance

    A small but significant incident clearly illustrating the political chasm opening up between Scotland and England.Bitter together,better apart.

    • HJ777

      Not at all. It just shows that there are a small number of people who like to try to intimidate people with whom they disagree.

      Most Scots are nothing like that, in my experience.

  • Mac

    SHOCK HORROR, “Farage gets SHOUTED at”

    “What is this country coming to”, says an outraged Alex Massie, eventually, much later, the next day.

    When you are trying to jump on a bandwagon Mr Massie make sure its there and not moved on, because you can end up making a fool of one’s self.

  • dercavalier

    “I am not quite sure I understand why Nigel Farage opted to launch UKIP’s Aberdeen by-election campaign in Edinburgh”
    Christ, it’s obvious. Farage doesn’t know anything about Scotland. He probably thinks Aberdeen is just up the road from Edinburgh instead of about 150 miles away.

    • terregles2

      Why was he even in a pub? Not the first choice for many politicians. they usually speak at proper venues.
      He probably set the whole thing up for publicity

      • Noa

        Mr Farage took refuge from the howling mob you defend.

        And you then pervert this to accuse him of holding a meeting there.

        • terregles2

          If he did not have the original meeting in the pub then I apologise for my honest mistake. I misunderstood some of the press releases. It was not done for any malicious reason.
          I would not dream of trying to blacken Mr Farage’s name. Ron Northcott is doing a good enough job of that.

          • Wessex Man

            and yet in later comments you accuse myself and Nigel Farage of being racists! make your mind up.

            • terregles2

              I called Mr Farage racist because that is what I believe he is. His failure to condemn Northcott proves that for me.
              I know that you like to keep in touch with events both north and south of the border. Can I suggest that you do a google search
              Our friends the good English by GA Ponsonby
              I don’t know if you have the equivalent in England but in Scotland many who are voting YES in 2014 are also full of admiration for England and English people.
              If you check the list on our friends the good English you will not find the name Farage but you will find a list of people that England and all English people should be proud of.
              It would seem that many people in Scotland while not liking Westminster government appreciate great English people more than the English themselves do.

              • Noa

                Racist? Then prove it, or withdraw your obnoxious remark.

                • terregles2

                  Stop being so silly you are not in the school playground now.

  • http://twitter.com/bmc875 Brian McC

    Alex. Get over yourself. ‘A man got shouted at’ is not really headline material. Unless, that is, you have an agenda?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Derick-Tulloch/100002550114410 Derick Tulloch

      Tory Unionist with an agenda? Surely not! how could this be???

  • MichtyMe

    The people of Scotland will not support a party lead by a man with the name NIGEL.

    • Noa

      But they are happy to be led by a short fat man named after a fish?

      • allymax bruce

        Ben Franklin was the same size as Scotland’s First Minister.
        God has blessed those he will use; Alex’ Salmond, like Ben Franklin, is God’s blessed.
        Salmond is a name that is in the Bible. You need to ‘believe’ more, and sneer less.

        • Noa

          Religious fervour and a narrow nationalist bigotry, a remarkable combination thankfully confined to Alba.

          • terregles2

            Confined to Alba.In your dreams. It is alive and well where you are.

            • Noa

              I’m surprised you associate yourself with the manifest drivel inherant in allymax bruce’s comment.
              But then, perhaps not.

              • terregles2

                I don’t associate myself with anyone. I have my own thoughts I just don’t agree with you that religious fervour and nationalist bigotry are confined to Scotland.
                That was not my experience when I lived in England.

                • Noa

                  Then you agree that bruces’ comment is both religiously and nationally bigoted whilst saying that the same can occur in England.

                  Anglophobia is alive and well, yesterday being but the latest example:

                  http://www.scotsman.com/anti-english-bullying-1-1810591

                  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9737918/Record-number-of-racist-attacks-on-English-in-Scotland.html

                  A narrow bigotry, which shames a once great Scotland.

                • allymax bruce

                  I will pray for you; clearly, you have self-worth anxieties.

                • Noa

                  “I will pray for you”

                  The answer of the religious hypocrite, which is no answer at all.

                • allymax bruce

                  Your Imposition arguments are quickly losing value, credibility, and integrity; ‘name-calling people ‘racist, bigot, homophobe’, only because you cannot beat them in a straight debate, shows you are pathetic.

                • Noa

                  You should read your posts before you publish them. Then you might just see them as others do; anglophobic, petty minded, bigoted, hate driven and concealed under a veneer of religious cant.

                • allymax bruce

                  I call your Imposition arguments ‘Reverse Premise’ debating; where you accuse your enemy/opponent of the degenerating, circular argumentation, (racist, bigot, homophobe, fascist, etc, etc), you yourself use. It’s known to be a political weapon in discourse, but you are pathetic at it. You are a low-level ‘operative’, unworthy of my time, and this cyberspace.
                  allymax.

                • terregles2

                  Alex would not be stupid enough to go into a pub for any political exchange.
                  Most normal politicians speak at suitable venues with the facilities to let the police keep order.
                  Farage has managed to get lots of publicity that he would never have had otherwise.

                • Noa

                  Yes, even south of the world political epicentre that is Edinburgh we know that Wee Alex doesn’t do serious political debate!

                • terregles2

                  Salmond has repeatedly invited Cameron to have a debate on independence but Cameron refuses to do it.
                  That really tells us all we need to know.

                • Noa

                  Why would he bother demoting himself by giving Wee Alex any kind of equivalence to the PM of the UK?

                  It would be a tactical error, better to leave the debate to the failed labour politicos.

                • terregles2

                  It is only because there is no anti Scottish feeling in England that you are so upset by the Anglophobia.
                  Scots are loved and revered throughout England and I have never heard anyone in England ever say anything against Scotland or the Scottish people, or perhaps I should say the Jocks or sweaty socks.. The English also love the Welsh and the Irish.
                  England is a racist free country with no bigotry. We could all learn from this still great nation.

                • dercavalier

                  And for Noa’s benefit, That was irony.

                • Noa

                  I’m afraid you’ve lost me. Are you talking about one of your own posts or the heavy thud of another of terreglas’ phobic, self denying ordinances?

                • dercavalier

                  Yes you don’t really have much intelligence do you? And you are unaware of irony, so I will give you a hint. It is at the end of terregles2’s post 4 posts up from this one (at the moment)

                • Noa

                  I’m not upset by anglophobia. I’m just disappointed that a once great country and people have sunk to it.
                  And you’re refusing to admit that an Englishman is in greater danger in Scotland because of it, than he is even in Tower Hamlets shows us what you have become.

                • terregles2

                  I am sorry you have lost me on that one. I have asked my husband’s English mates if they feel threatened here in Scotland and also the English guys I work beside but they have all said no.

                • Noa

                  Then you have a civilised circle of friends and acquaintances. As you will note others are less fortunate…

                  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9737918/Record-number-of-racist-attacks-on-English-in-Scotland.html

              • allymax bruce

                Oh-dear!
                Talk about the diminution of discourse; Noa further reduces the competency of the word bigot.

      • terregles2

        A salmon is a fish you seem confused.

        • Noa

          A bite!

          Hook, line and sinker.

  • Abhay

    ‘Fascist’ as an epithet, as a derogatory term, is going to lose effect and meaning because just about everyone is calling everyone a fascist. It matters not where you stand on the left – right specturm or whether you believe in degrees of freedom or degrees of totalitarianism.

    They have called Nigel fascist and he has called them the same back!

    The whole episode is good for Nigel Farage / UKIP – free publicity and media coverage. He is dominating the public sphere!

  • 7leagueboots

    This shows the real value of online comments sections.

    It is a very nicely argued bit of writing by the younger Massie.

    But it was sunk below the waterline by the astute comments of DougtheDug & Spammo Twatbury.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.oneill.50702 Steve O’Neill

    Andrew Neil on the Daily Politics: “Interesting the mob was shouting at him ‘racist scum, and go home’ – think about that ;-)”

    • allymax bruce

      Yes, I watched Andrew’a show last night too, and that’s where it was reported this ugly mob called themselves Labourfor Radical Independence. I feel sorry for Nigel; he has every right to campaign here in Scotland, and this rent-a-mob from Radical Labour, are very whereassing for us Scots, and Scotland. I want independence for Scotland too, but I recognise Nigel had the right to campaign, in decency.

      • Wessex Man

        allymax bruce,
        if this is truly your view, then I am prepared to stop winding you up!

        • Noa

          But Wessex Man, in this cyber Scotch Corner the Alex Massive rises so beautifully to the bait!

          • dercavalier

            Keep taking the pills and keep making the comments. If you repeat your bigotry and racism long enough and become doped up enough, you’ll start believing that what you say is “beautiful man”.

            • Wessex Man

              I think we all know about your particular bigotry and racism, you’ve shown it enough times on the threads.

              • terregles2

                I am afraid you have also esposed your racism and bigotry by your support of Ron Northcott and Nigel Farage.
                So sad that some English people now support racist political parties

                • Wessex Man

                  I’ve exposed my racism and bigotry by my support of Ron Northcott and Nigel Farage have I? Your comment about me is disgusting, you know nothing about me and yet are quite happy to sling such allegatiions in my direction and to brand Nigel Farage a racist because, well because he had the nerve to be mobbed by a bunch of nutters who were not even aware that their chanting was racist.

                  Given that I have never heard of Ron Northcott, our party has thousands of members, close to overtaking the Lib/dems, I would say to you do you know all the members of any of the organisations you belong to?

                  Your defence of this very un-pleasant mob in Edinburugh does you no good at all and your further rantings would suggest that maybe you have some racial problems which you are trying to keep under control!

                • terregles2

                  I have never condoned the Edinburgh demonstrators. From the beginning I said I did not agree with shouting and jostling.
                  I was pointing out that many amongst them were English including the arrested Mike Shaw and that it was being used to denigrate all of Scotland.
                  I believe that UKIP are racist let’s just agree to differ on that one. If you are not personally racist I believe that you are still supporting a racist party.

                • Noa

                  Why should we agree to differ? You are simply wrong.
                  You have provided, nor can you provide any evidence whatsoever that UKIP is racist.
                  The accusation of racism is simply the final empty retort of the marxist, using Marcusian constructed language, attempting to prevent thought and speech.

                • Noa

                  Well said WM, Tere crows about Northcott but chooses to forget that this debate is founded on the dungheap of violent scottish marxism.

                • terregles2

                  Dungheap of Scottish marxism. You are really letting your Scottish hatred out now. Calm down Wessex man you are really sounding rather silly and just a tad over excited.

            • Noa

              Bigotry seems to be your suite.
              Where you here?

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w65VhJi9jWU

    • terregles2

      In Mr Farage’s case surely an example of what goes round comes round.

    • taranaich

      What does telling an English politician, who lives in England, who is head of an English political party, whose interests are predominantly English, to go home have to do with racism? Would you accuse someone heckling David Cameron by telling him to “go back to Westminster” of racism?

      Stop debasing the very real and present problem of racism by throwing it around where it had no place.

      • Wessex Man

        Nigel Faeage would counter your comment with ” I was born in the United Kindom, I lead a party called the United Kingdom Independence Party and I am entitled to speak anywhere in the United Kingdom and I am entitled to expect police protection from baying mobs!

        When and if Scotland votes to leave the Union, your arguement would hold water.

        • terregles2

          Not a very smart move to choose to speak in a pub. What responsible politician would do that?
          Serious politicians do not go into pubs they book proper venues with a platform to speak on where police can keep control.
          Maybe Farage set up the whole thing for publicity.

          • Noa

            Rubbish
            Mr Farage took refuge from the howling mob you defend.

            And you then pervert this to accuse him of holding a meeting there.

            • keaton

              Um, he did hold a meeting there.

              “Mr Farage arranged a press conference with journalists in the Canons Gait pub on Edinburgh’s Royal Mile just yards from the Scottish Parliament to promote his candidate Otto Inglis in the Aberdeen Donside by-election.”

              http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/protesters-barricade-ukip-leader-nigel-farage-in-edinburgh-pub-1.94070

              • Wessex Man

                Is that a criminal offence or are you getting desperate?

                • keaton

                  Neither. Just correcting Noa, who for seem reason seems to regard it as a terrible slur to “accuse” a politician of holding an event in a pub.

                • Noa

                  thanks for the correction keaton. I don’t feel it’s a slur to hold a meeting in a pub. I prefer to hold them there myself.

                  However, Mr Massies report above, says

                  “…forcing Nigel Farage to “flee” and take “sanctuary” in a pub…”

                  So, never trust a journalist with the facts eh?

          • Abhay

            We know what your ‘serious politicians’ did – overborrowed, overspent and wrecked the economy so badly that it has not recovered in 5 years!!

  • Jeremy Klayman

    I’m glad to see you’re from the same attitude as Farage that because a number of Scots turn up to protest that paints the whole Scottish electorate.

    The fact that Farage failed to stand up to any level of scrutiny by an interview on BBC Scotland shows his lack of ability to play a serious role in Scottish politics. Just saying “working people agree” does not constitute having a role…I can say postman agree with me without any solid basis for this assertion.

    Hanging up on the radio says more about Farage inability to engage in Scottish politics and more interested in his victim complex rather than what a number of people shouted at him while leaving a pub.

    That’s not to say your analysis of Scottish politics isn’t valid (David Torrance is always worth a read or listen), but discuss and analysis that. Not a group of people shouting at Farage as a starting point to suggest Scottish people are an undemocratic, sanctimonious lot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spammo-Twatbury/100002426967566 Spammo Twatbury

    “And if nothing else, labelling Farage and his party “fascist scum” leaves you with no vocabulary with which to describe actual fascists. It debases the coinage, if you will”

    …says Alex, a few paragraphs after linking to an article in which the anti-Farage activists are described by one of his own colleagues with the phrase “protestors who might as well have been wearing brown shirts”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spammo-Twatbury/100002426967566 Spammo Twatbury

      (It should, of course, be noted that Farage is calling the protestors “fascist scum” all over the papers this morning himself.)

      • NorthBrit

        Quite. Nigel Farage says that the protestors were “fascist scum” because they called him “fascist scum”.

        But if people who call people “fascist scum” are, by definition, fascist scum, Farage’s self incrimination implies that the protestors were merely agreeing with his own (admittedly future) arguments on the subject.

        A paradox.

        • HJ777

          Perhaps, but Farage wasn’t trying to behave like a brown shirt by intimidating his political opponents on the streets.

          These people were.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spammo-Twatbury/100002426967566 Spammo Twatbury

            Just out of curiosity, what do you consider a legitimate form of protest? A strongly-worded letter?

            There was no violence yesterday whatsoever.

            • HJ777

              Protesting against what? His right to express his views in public? Farage was merely trying to promote his views and his party.

              He should be able to do it without a mob shouting him down and physically obstructing him.

              If they disagree with his views, they should state and publicise theirs (just as he was doing) and let people decide which they prefer.

              • terregles2

                Think they were a bit annoyed that he has said his party would disband the Scottish parliament. Under those circumstances you might say the demonstrators were remarkably restrained.

                • HJ777

                  So whenever anyone advocates policies you don’t agree with it’s just fine to shout them down and try to intimidate them?

                  You have a strange idea of how to behave in a democracy.

                • terregles2

                  Well that is the nature of democracy. I am not saying it is right but it is what people do. Prescott had the egg thrown at him Ted Heath had ink thrown at him. Thatcher made less fuss than Farage after the Brighton bombing.
                  If you can’t take the shouting and abuse do not go into politics,

                • ian t

                  The other examples you give were people who were in power at the time, I think that makes a difference. An opposition party isn’t making decisions that affect peoples lives, just putting forward a point of view.

                • terregles2

                  Yes but the problem is that UKIP are putting forward a racist point of view. Ron Northcott has subjected the Scottish people to a tirade of hatred and abuse. Mr Farage has failed to condemn Northcott therefore Farage is also a racist.

                • Noa

                  I did not believe your could surpass your own previous ludicrous idiocies until you wrote this illogical hyperbole!

                  Why should Mr Farage comment on every, or indeed any, resignation by an ex-party member, whose views have refuted by UKIP?

                  Your irrational comments demonstrate your Anglophobia all to clearly.

                • terregles2

                  I am Anglophobic don’t think so. My dad was English and I spent many happy holidays down in Norfolk with my eight English cousins whom I still love dearly.

                  I have such happy memories of Wells next the sea, Cromer, Oxburgh Hall. Great Yarmouth and all the other beautiful Norfolk countryside. Part of my heart will always be in England.
                  I like all races and I hate racism. I will be voting YES in 2014 but to suggest that any of us who do so are anti English is quite simply untrue.

                • dercavalier

                  “it’s just fine to shout them down and try to intimidate them”

                  That’s just the way it is nowadays in a democracy. See about 50 recent demos somewhere in England over the last two years

                • terregles2

                  Lots of demonstrations in England in recent years some of them ending in violence. Lots of riots in England as well. A politician gets shouted at in Edinburgh and all the people who really don’t like Scotland use it as an excuse to call the Scots racist. This coming from UKIP who are blatantly racist over immigration.

                • Wessex Man

                  ditto

                • Wessex Man

                  Here you go again, I caught you out once before with your downright lies, so let’s have a list of the “50 recent demos somewhere in England over the last tow years” you raving nasty little ranter you.

                • Noa

                  Little?
                  He’s told us previously he’s 6′ 4″!
                  He didn’t clarify whether that was in or out of 6″ heels though….

                • Wessex Man

                  with his 6″ heels of course!

                • terregles2

                  Should we all learn how to behave in a democracy from Ron Northcott’s nasty tweets

                • Noa

                  Remind me to have a look at some SNP twit tweets sometime. I’m sure I’d find plenty of similar anti-English abuse. And so what? They’ve both a right to say it, and a right to be told they’re complete ars*ses for doing so.
                  That’s what democracy is about!

                  The right to give such abuse is part of the DNA of free speech. The danger to liberty comes from the people who are worsted by it free speech trying to suppress it.
                  So, as you’ve been loudly defending the right to abuse the English in most of your posts, accept it with the best grace you can muster when you get the same and more in return.

                • terregles2

                  Of course all sorts of abuse and nonsense is posted on twitter by all sorts of silly people. What makes Ron Northcott different is that he is the UKIP candidate for Plymouth posting disgraceful insults about Scottish people. Mr Farage is quite happy with an official UKIP candidate being openly racist and abusing other nations of the UK..

                  Farage then has the audacity to demand that Salmond apologise for demonstrators in Edinburgh when they are members of the public and not SNP canditates for election.

                  He wants Salmond to apologise for people who may not even be SNP supporters while he will not apologise for Northcott who is an official UKIP candidate. It is official then UKIP hate the Scots and support all abuse of the Scottish nation. Glad that it is now out in the open and we all know where we stand.

                  .

                • Noa

                  “…What makes Ron Northcott different is that he is the UKIP candidate for Plymouth posting disgraceful insults about Scottish people. Mr Farage is quite happy with an official UKIP candidate being openly racist and abusing other nations of the UK..”

                  As so often, you are wrong. Mr Northcott has resigned.

                  David Salmon, UKIP’s Plymouth chairman, said:

                  “Ron is not talking to any member of the press. I can say that following the appalling behaviour of some Scots against Nigel Farage, Ron was involved in what he describes as banter with a Scot living in London.
                  His out-of-character remark was unacceptable and he has stood down with immediate effect as a potential candidate for next years elections. We in no way condone his language and the sentiments expressed. He has stepped down and will be leaving UKIP.”

                • terregles2

                  One of the UKIP racists let his mask slip in public and exposed the true nasty little centre of UKIP.
                  He has resigned so that makes it alright then. No doubt some other shabby little racist intellectual pygmy will soon fill the vacancy he has left.
                  He is very fortunate that he used the word JOCK in his vile racist abuse if he had substituted another group of people that UKIP also hate he might have been charged by the police.

                • Noa

                  You embody a “true nasty little centre” yourself.

                • terregles2

                  You cannot defend the nasty little racist party or the nasty little Northcott man so you call me nasty instead.
                  In fairness not many people would mange to defend the indefensible.

                • Noa

                  UKIP is not racist and despite being challenged many times to do so, you have not put forward any evidence to the contrary.
                  Why should Mr Farage comment on every, or indeed any, resignation by an ex-party member, whose views have refuted by UKIP?
                  Your irrational comments simply demonstrate your growing Anglophobia.

                • Wessex Man

                  You are continually mentioning one person out of a nation of 58 million and you are blind to the entirely insulting spoutings of your countrymen posting alongside you like the delightful decavalier!

                • terregles2

                  There are far more anti Scottish posts on this forum than there are anti English.

                  I am not however getting into childish arguments over who is nastiest.

                  Let me be clear English people who write nasty things and denigrate Scottish people I find truly disgusting.

                  Scottish people who insult English people and say nasty things about them are equally disgusting.

                  These people are sad bitter misfits and really are more to be pitied than anything else. Fortunately the majority of Scots and English are decent kind people who get along well together. Scottish independence would never change that.

                  I am only interested in fairness and the Farage demonstration has not been reported in a fair manner. It has been used by the same old dreary JOCK bashers to denigrate Scotland and the Scottish people

                  If you look at http://www.courier.co.uk it gives details of the English people involved in the anti UKIP demonstration and it also posts comments both for and against the demonstrators which again seems a bit more balanced.

          • terregles2

            I do not like any shouting and jostling anywhere but we live in a democracy and people will always demonstrate. Do you think if a member of the EU parliament came to London and advocated taking the English parliament away there would not be quite angry demonstrations in the street.?

            • Noa

              There is no “English” Parliament. There is the Parliament of the United Kingdom. What happens there affects Scots equally. 85% of its legislation flows from Brussels and that should be a matter of equal concern to any Scot who values an elected democracy and he or she would be equally be demonstrating in London in protest at it’s usurpation.

              That you do not appreciate this indicates either that you lack even a basic understanding of the present form of Parliamentary sovereignty, or you are a europhile, or both.

          • terregles2

            People have been shouting at and heckling politicians for decades. Ted Heath had ink thrown at him Prescott had an egg thrown at him and so on and so on. Some were even bombed in Thatcher’s government. Nobody is excusing that but if a politician is upset by being shouted at they need a change of career.

            • HJ777

              It wasn’t heckling.

              It was racist abuse and an attempt to physically intimidate.

              The police should arrest people who throw things at politicians (or anyone else). Since when were politicians exempt from the protection of the law?

              • terregles2

                The police do arrest anyone who throws anything at a politician. Our politicians are better protected than we are when we are out on the streets.
                How do you know it was racist abuse were you there? I have a visitor from the USA staying with me at the moment. She was sightseeing in Edinburgh when the demonstration was going on she told me much of what was shouted and most of it was about Farage being homophobic and anti immigration.
                I am not excusing anyone shouting abuse. I would never do it myself but in a democracy that is what people do. They have being doing it for decades. That is why now most politicians avoid the public as much as possible.
                For goodness sake Thatcher was bombed in Brighton. She put on her lipstick and got on with it saying business as usual. Farage is shouted at and he runs away.

              • JPJ2

                HJ777
                Nobody threw anything at Farage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                • terregles2

                  There were no missiles thrown at Farage. He was shouted at nothing was thrown.

  • allymax bruce

    Nigel is misled to think these ‘protestors’ were from SNP, they are from Labour’s ‘radical Independence Party; a radical militant group from the Labour Party. They have regular meetings in Glasgow and information on this horrendous Labour splinter group can be found on Bella Caledonia; Pat Kane.

    • Thomas Coles

      Completely wrong – Labour are pro-Union. Radical Independence supporters are more likely to be Greens or Scottish Socialists. A lot are unaligned.

      The protestors actually said this:

      “We organised yesterday’s protest against Farage out of a belief that UKIP’s policies are fundamentally rotten. Their headline five-year immigration freeze is not only completely disconnected from reality, but is a policy that neither the people of Scotland nor the rest of the United Kingdom would stomach. His regressive and repugnant ideology is not far removed from that of the BNP – just dressed in a better-fitting suit.”

      and

      “This was about challenging someone whose party has been spouting racist, sexist and homophobic bile and gone unchallenged for months. Everyone who opposes the politics of fear and division should unite against UKIP – whether you live in Scotland or England.”

      • Wessex Man

        If Labour are pro Union they have a funny way of showing it.

        “The protestors actually said this:” makes no difference, why have two of them been arrested- don’t say they have broken the law have they?

        The view that UKip’s policies are fundamently rotten is soley this ragtag rentamob’s opinion who have never been elected outside their own front room. I am proud to stand up for my country and am a member of UKIP.

        Our selection process is stronger than the other parties and if you are ex BNP you are not alllowed to become a member. I would say the protestors were closer to the BNP than us, we don’t harass other people in this way!

        The freeze on immigration is what is attracting people to UKip as never before because migrants to England and Wales (and no I don’t know how many to Scotland) has doubled in ten years, 3.8 million in those ten years. Our Schools, Hospitals, Houising Associations are struggling to cope. Lord Mandelson said in 2004 “we, New Labour were sending out search parties for people to come.” It was a cynical plan in which they sought to ensure they stayed in power.

        The Scottish pepole will no doubt in the by-election next month tell us, UKip if they want our party in Scotland.

        • allymax bruce

          This was Radical Labour; Andrew Neil will back it up. The fact is, your ‘operation’ in Scotland has become extreme, biscuius, and ultra aggressive; Scots will vote Yes for Scottish independence, but there was no real reason to put out such anhateful mob; there was no way Nigel’s party were going to make any headway in Scotland. We are on-course for Scottish independence, and the only political party to gain from such a horrible dying as this, is Labour; afraid they would lose aware to Nigel. This was not SNP; the SNP vote wouldn’t be attracted by Ni

          • George B

            Good Lord! Oh do step away from your keyboard, you’re just
            embarrassing yourself, Allymax.

            This was mob was a bunch of Scottish Nationalist sympathizing scumbags and no amount of your baseless lies will alter any sensible Scots views – and by that I mean the silent Majority that do not wish to be associated with these acrimonious types and are not voting for independence.
            no amount of your silly fiction with change the facts.
            Grow up.

            • allymax bruce

              George, it was Labour’s ‘ultra-wing’, their ‘rent-a-mob’ operation. One of the ‘protesters’ told Nigel that UKIP, and Nigel were (and I quote), “anti-Semite”!
              What other Party do you know that are fully-functioning Zionists? That can only be Labour!
              Like I said, you lost, get over it; this is one of your ‘operations’ that went wrong!

              • Junis

                “What other Party do you know that are fully-functioning Zionists?”. UKIP is no better or different than a typical mainstream party. They have declared themselves to be ‘Friends of Israel’ i.e. under Zionist control.

                http://foi-ukip.org/mission/

            • dercavalier

              You are the one embarassing yourself. The people demonstrating had nothing whatever to do with the SNP. They were a mixed group of Uni students and Labour Activists. The leader who was arrested is English and has stated this on Sky TV. But of course, you being no doubt a Scottish Labour Scum Bag, don’t want to know that. Or maybe you are just a common or garden English racist who like to say nasty things about Scots.

              • Noa

                Unlike the common or garden Scotch racists who like to say nasty things about the English.

                • terregles2

                  It is probably more upsetting for you to hear any racism expressed.
                  We have never heard you say one word against the Scots or indeed any other nation so it is bound to be worse for you when others do it.

                • dercavalier

                  To Noa That was irony again since being English you don’t what that is.

                • Wessex Man

                  nor apparantly do you!

                • Noa

                  I think its best that you stick with what you know, iron-bru perhaps, rather than irony?

                  It’s better to leave attempts at wit to those with a sense of humour!

                • Noa

                  I leave my earlier link in the Scotsman to expose Anglo-phobia.

                  I have still not seen any rebuttal to that from the foaming bigots on this thread.

                • terregles2

                  There doesn’t seem much point in trying to debate with you it only makes you more aggressive.

                • terregles2

                  Have not heard any Scottish politician spouting the hatred and bile that Ron Northcott has. Also not heard Northcott’s comments being criticised by the British media.

                • dercavalier

                  Or a common or garden English racist like you who has been saying nasty things about Scots since this site opened up.

                • Noa

                  You merely repeat your own bigotry. Obviously you don’t recognise the moral equivalence of your own remark, or it being returned to you.
                  And clearly you lie too, I have no idea how long the Spectator website has been in existence, but I have only recent come across the nest of extreme anglophobic bigotry that infects so many of the posters here.
                  Of course ‘fascism’, ‘racism’ and bigotry in all its forms can and will be strenuously opposed by all right minded people.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Derick-Tulloch/100002550114410 Derick Tulloch

              Organiser of said demo – one Max Crema, 21, Vice President of services at Edinburgh University Students Association.
              He’s also a member of the LRC – the Youth wing of the Labour
              Representative Committee.

              http://www.lrcyouth.org.uk/

            • taranaich

              I suggest you look up the difference between ethnic nationalism and civil nationalism. UKIP is one, the SNP is another.

        • terregles2

          Think it is a bit strange for Nigel Farage to visit Scotland at all. He complains that England does not get enough of a say from Brussels yet openly says that he would abolish the Scottish parliament giving them no say within the UK..

          It seems he believes in democracy for England but not for Scotland.
          I abhor all bad manners and do not agree with anyone shouting abuse at any politician. I think we should all debate our point of view in a civilised manner.

          It seems naive however to expect a warm welcome in Scotland if you are campaigning to abolish democracy in Scotland. We must ask the question what sort or response a member of the EU parliament would receive if they turned up in London advocating less power in Brussels for the English government
          The demonstrators were not anti English, indeed some of them were English. They were protesting against the UKIP policy on immigration and on gay marriage and also the UKIP policy on the Scottish parliament.
          I know someone who was near the pub when the demonstration was taking place and some of the shouts were asking Mr Farage how he liked being treated as badly as an asylum seeker.
          There are now more than four political parties in Scotland campaigning for independence. A large splinter group of the Labour party are Labourforindy and to suggest that all the demonstrators were SNP supporters is mischief making in the extreme.
          UKIP are popular in England but have little or no support in Scotland. Mr Farage should concentrate on building up his vote in England and not waste everyone’s time by trying to sell his ideas north of the border.
          Mr Farage showed his complete lack of understanding of Scotland by accusing the demonstrators of being anti English when in fact they are against UKIP policy.

          • HJ777

            Abolishing the Scottish Parliament wouldn’t amount to abolishing democracy in Scotland. Was there no democracy in Scotland before the Scottish parliament? I seem to remember Scots getting votes just like anyone else.

            He is perfectly entitled to sell his ideas wherever he likes and doesn’t have to listen to your views on what he should do. I doubt he wants your advice. I don’t blame him.

            The protesters were racist – telling his to “F**k off back to England”. Imagine if someone English suggested that to someone of Pakistani (or even Scottish) origin. This is unacceptable racist behaviour.

            • terregles2

              No he doesn’t have to listen to my views just as the demonstrators did not have to listen to his views.
              I don’t think you can claim any moral high ground when it comes to any anti English insults.
              When Gordon Brown was in power the blatant anti Scottish insults were incorporated into the British media. We had references to the Scottish mafia and Gorbals Mick etc.
              I have been in England and been told to F**k off back to Scotland. Racists are everywhere.
              You don’t think Farage is denying Scottish democracy by wishing to remove the Scottish parliament. We should be happy to have Westminster have complete control over our country. You say this while at the same time saying England should not be governed from Brussels and England should be free to make all its own decisions and all the decisions for Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland..
              A shade hypocritical.

              • Wessex Man

                calm and see my previous comment.

                • terregles2

                  Calm?

                • Wessex Man

                  down

            • terregles2

              One of the demonstrators who was arrested was English. There are lots of English living in Scotland and very welcome they are to . The demonstration was anti UKIP policy not anti English people .

              • chump23

                Growing up in Scotland with English parents I did not feel welcome. There is a strain of anti-English vitriol which is highly apparent. I would say a substantial minority of Scots are anti-English. I got abuse every week of my life.

                • terregles2

                  That is really sad I hope that things are going well for you now. I know what you mean about the few retards in Scotland and England who indulge in this nonsense
                  My cousin got a really good job in England but he had to return to Scotland because his children were being so badly bullied at school for being Scottish. It broke his heart to see them so unhappy.
                  Hopefully one day these backward people will become civilised.

                • dercavalier

                  Of course there ia strain of anti-English feeling in Scotland just as there is a strain of anti-Scottish vitriol in England. As the posts on this site highlight very well. And particularly the tweets from a git called Northcote in Plymouth who is a UKIP candidate for local election.

              • Noa

                One in 50? So 98% of the louts were Scots.

                And your point is?

                • terregles2

                  My point is that there is not one politician anywhere in Scotland of any political party who has ever stood for election and denigrated any other nation in the manner that Ron Northcott has.
                  His disgusting abuse of the Scottish people is encouraged and applauded by men like Farage and also by yourself.
                  UKIP now is officially anti Scottish and people like yourself can no longer conceal your hated of the Scots.
                  Fortunately the majority of English people are not like yourself and your hatred and abuse will not sour our good feelings towards our English friends and family.

                • Noa

                  “Northcott..His disgusting abuse of the Scottish people is encouraged and applauded by men like Farage and also by yourself.”

                  Liar

            • taranaich

              Well if the Scots were happy without their own parliament, why did they vote *twice* to have one installed? Presumably if their democratic needs were being met, there would’ve been no desire for a Scottish parliament at all.

              Also, telling Farage to go back to England is not even remotely equatable to telling a Pakistani to “go back to Pakistan,” or an English person telling a Scot to “go back to Scotland,” because Farage is an English politician, based in England, leading an English party, for English interests. Farage is not under attack because of his ethnic heritage, he’s under attack for his politics. Last time I checked, political heckling was not racist behaviour.

              • JPJ2

                taranaich.
                They majority of the voters said “yes” on both occasions.
                The first “Yes” vote was ignored due to gerrymandering of the referendum by Westminster unionists.

              • clear_memories

                UKIP is not an “English” party, s.f.b. – the clue is in its name and the last time I looked, you were still part of the UK. If and when you get your referendum (which you’ll lose, because the slightly smarter ones amongst you know which side their bread is buttered and who supplies the butter), then you can start deciding who to tell to go home.

                Jeez, you can then actually prove what racists you are by making them go home.

                If you really want your independence, start campaigning for this to be a UK-wide referendum. Give the English a say and you won’t believe how fast the wall will be up with border and passport controls and you lot north of the border stuck with the Euro and about as much chance to make a go of it as the Greeks.

              • AndrewMelville

                Not so. He’s a British politician, leading a British party with a British policy campaigning in Britain. One may not care for him but it is rude to say go home. I won’t say racist because that is a silly and meaningless term and massively overused.

            • JPJ2

              HJ777
              Abolishing the Scottish Parliament against the wishes of the Scottish people unambiguously voted for in a referendum IS the abolition of democracy.

              • HJ777

                Rubbish.

                Farage is putting forward his case. It wouldn’t happen unless it was voted for.

                How many Scots would have voted for the Scottish parliament had they known the cost (£400m vs the £40m budget)? Are you saying that once in place, no-one has the right to suggest that people vote for abolition or an alternative (such as more powers for county and city councils) instead?

                You have a strange idea of democracy.

                • JPJ2

                  HJ777
                  The Scottish Parliament is NOT a building i.e. its powers are transferable to/from the Holyrood..building to another location.
                  However, the unionists at Westminster were entirely responsible for the shambolic creation of the building (a bit like the Edinburgh trams, also the result of unionist insanity in the teeth of the wishes of the then minority SNP government).
                  The “Scottish” Labour leader, Dewar, was personally responsible for the cost of the parliament as he did not want the original planned building to be used as the parliament, declaring it to be “nationalist shibboleth”, and Westminster demanded, created and costed Holyrood. It was Westminster’s final act of incompetence before devolution.
                  UKIP would have the constitutional power to abolish the Scottish Parliament against the wishes of the Scots. As Enoch Powell correctly stated: “Power devolved is power retained”. Indeed that IS a strange democracy-but it IS the constitutional position.

                • terregles2

                  Wouldyou vote for the abolition of Westminster parliament it would save a lot of money.

                • HJ777

                  No, because we need a government to carry out essential functions of government, such as defence of the realm and law and order. I would vote for fewer MPs, however.

                  There is no such need for a Scottish parliament – it is an extra tier, without which Scotland managed very well for nearly three centuries. Many of its powers could be devolved further.

                  I am not against Scotland having its own parliament – I am merely pointing out that it is not an essential democratic requirement, that it is costly and that had Scots known the costs they might (only might) not have wanted it.

                • terregles2

                  If we did not need a Scottish parliament it would not be there.The cost is tiny compared to the countless billions that the Westminster government has wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Westminster government still intends to waste billions more on replacing Trident.
                  You say we managed very well for three hundren years well I am sorry but we did not feel we were being well governed at all. When more Scottish people started to vote for independence they were given devolution to try and stop the independence vote.
                  I do not wish to sound rude but if you do not live in Scotland you cannot really say that it is not an essential democratic requirement.
                  It does not mean that people living in Scotland are against English people in any way we only wish to govern ourselves. Every other country is self governing so it is hard to understand why Scotland wishing to do the same attracts such hostility and abuse from some people.
                  Fortunately most English and Scots get along well and do not bear any ill will to our neighbours. I am sure that this will continue after independence

                • HJ777

                  “…we did not feel we were being well governed at all. ”

                  “…we only wish to govern ourselves.”

                  Who is this ‘we’ on whose behalf you purport to speak? When did they elect you to speak for them?

                  I know plenty of Scottish people (and am part-Scots myself). They are all strongly against Scottish independence – as polls consistently show the vast majority of Scots are.

            • dercavalier

              “Imagine if someone English suggested that to someone of Pakistani”
              The English shout that every day of the week somehwere in England so why isn’t it reported in English newspapers?

              • HJ777

                Because there aren’t reporters there at the time?

          • Wessex Man

            terregles2

            Can you find any reference for your claim that Nigel Farage has ever said that England does not get enough say from Brussels? You will find that he never has, it all about UK with Nigel Farage, I know from first hand experience talking to him about Paul Nuttall’s policy proposal “A Union for the Future.”

            Farage accepted some time ago that now the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly were firmly established they were there to stay, hence Paul Nutall’s proposal.

            You should also know that at the UKip Conference in Birmingham last year, Scottish UKip asked Farage to visit Scotland to help them in their campaign for the no vote.

            UKip do have support in Scotland, a complete autonomsous Scottish UKip. I would say that you have a lack of understanding of fellow Scots who wish to stay within the Union. Surely in a deomcracy all views are entitled to be heard and until such time as Scotland leaves the Union, Scottish UKip can invite a fellow subject of the United Kingdom to Scotland and he as a leader of a UK Party is entitled to speak anywhere within the UK.

            Having said all of that, I personally and I have always been completely open with other members of UKip wish you the Scottish yes campaign well. Our respective counties are well able to cope out there in the big bad world on our own.

            • terregles2

              Oh there seems to be some confusion. I was speaking to some Scottish UKIP members and they said they supported Farage because he wants to leave the EU.
              They said that like Farage they did not like decisions from Brussels being imposed on Brirain.

              • Wessex Man

                All of a sudden theres Scottish UKip members you’ve been speaking to? the drift of Scottish comment on these threads has been theres no UKip in Scotland. The Scottish UKip would support Nigel Farage in his desire to leave the EU, the clues in the name I think you will find!

                • terregles2

                  UKIP have 1% of the vote in Scotland. I was only talking to two of them but in fairness they may have been the only two in the west of Scotland.

                • terregles2

                  Well I did know two UKIP members but there is only one now. one of them read the comments on Women in Trousers by Demetri Marchessini and was so disgusted that he was one of the people who donate large sums of money to UKIP that she will now leave UKIP.

                • Wessex Man

                  Please pass on the link.

                • terregles2

                  Just goodle women in trousers Demetri Marchessini.

          • Junis

            True. However, that does not change the fact the UKIP is an arsehole party.

        • dercavalier

          “why have two of them been arrested”

          And one of them is English, the Leader of the students’ Labour Party at the Uni. See broadcast on Sky TV.

        • terregles2

          One UKIP canditate for Plymouth has tweeted ” Amazed that 50 Jocks could get out of bed that early. It’s not signing on day is it, or is the chemist open?
          And UKIP are not considered racist.

          • Simon Scarth

            He could have noted that the pubs are. Anyway I think the idea of a referendum is a waste of time, let them go, fed up with the whinging. Mind you if you wanted them to stay I have a simple wheeze, as 1 in 7 of Scots are on anti-depressants why not
            put anti-depressants in the water like fluoride.
            Working on the assumption that the usual hate, general dissatisfaction with life and dislike of success is a
            basic requirement for voting for the left, SNP Labour etc you could change the electoral out come at a stroke.
            Come to think of it I would ban the sale of depressants
            north of the border.

            • terregles2

              I fear that you have neglected to take your medication today. What a strange outburst of hatred and bile. I can only feel sorry for you to walk on this earth with such hatred in your heart. You poor sad person.

        • terregles2

          You better hope they don’t read any of Ron Northcott’s anti Scottish hatred and bile.

          Wonder when hypocritical Farage will speak out against those comments. We wont hold our breath.

          • Wessex Man

            Lets hope they don’t read Alisdair Gray’s Settlers and Colonists or Tom Anderson Cairns delightful little ditty “Wha’s like Us-Damn Few and They’re A’ Deid,” wonderful stuff or Gordon Brown showing the English Press that he’s supporting English Football team on the television and when they’re gone joining in with Mcbride singing The Fieilds of Athenry.

            Are you still the moderate voice of Scottish Nationalism or have you recieved a conversion?

            • terregles2

              You refuse to recognise the point that has been made. UKIP now officially puts forward canditates who spew bile and hatred about the Scottish nation.
              UKIP are racist that is now official. What kind of party leader would come to Scotland supposedly to boost his party ratings while endorsing the racist bile from Northcott.?

            • terregles2

              I am not a member of any political party. i am a person who abhors all racism and unlike yourself I do not defend racists.

              • Wessex Man

                I think you are trying just a little too hard to shift the blame away from the mob on UKip which whether you like it or not are a legitmate political party in England, Wales and Scotland, whose base at the last elections in all three countries was very low. It’s not now, we achieved 25% of the votes in ther last round of Council elections, are now established in third place in all opinion polls and are finishing second in Westminster by-elections. Ukip Wales are confident of winning at least three seats in their Assembly. I look forward to any elections in Scotland to see where we end up.

                I’ve not in all honesty looked up the utterances of Northcott but will and would remind you that there are always nutters in all parties, hence the Tories tearing themselves apart which is music to my ears!

                • terregles2

                  Of course every political party has nutters but other political parties do not let the nutters stand as canditates. UKIP does.

                  Northcott called all Scots unemployed drug addicts although he did not use the word Scots he used the more derogatory term JOCKS.
                  Mr Farage did not reprimand Northcott. Farage did not apologise for Northcott’s disgusting abuse. From the Farage silence we assume that is because he agrees with Northcott.

          • Noa

            Such uber-sensitivity!

            Given the picture that Scotland presents of itself to the world and in this case, to England, why are you surprised when you’re judged accordingly?

            • terregles2

              You judge 5 million people on the actions of 50 some of whom were English. Not much logic there.
              if we didn’t know you better we might even think you were desperate to find something to denigrate the Scots with,

              • Noa

                Don’t be silly, I don’t judge all Scots people on the basis of a vile sectarian attack by marxist loons.
                And I don’t hear any English voices here either, except the reasonable voice of Mr Farage.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w65VhJi9jWU

            • terregles2

              Perhaps you might like to google
              our friends the good english GA Ponsonby
              You might like to read it and celebrate a few of the great things about England and some of the great English heros.
              Instead of nitpicking and abusing the Scots why do you not celebrate your own great nation?

        • AndrewMelville

          You’re quite right that mass immigration is a calamity for the UK. We are a small overcrowded island – we don’t need or want masses of immigrants. Doubly so when they are hostile to our culture, values, language & history. The situation s not so acute in Scotland, but it applies there too.

          Whether one agrees with them or not UKIP has a legitimate role to play in politics in every part of the UK.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spammo-Twatbury/100002426967566 Spammo Twatbury

    What a backwards argument this is. Nobody needed to “listen to” Farage’s arguments, they’ve been beamed into our homes non-stop by the BBC for the last two weeks. We know what they are, we know what we think of them, and yesterday we told him. Hot-headed young activists using silly words is mildly regrettable, but if we were to start picking up all the regrettable words used by Mr Farage and his cronies we’d be here all day.

    • taranaich

      Thank you. Anyone who thinks Farage has seriously been “silenced” by this is either disengenuous or deluded: the protesters, on the other hand, are waved away as “fascists” who “might as well have worn brown shirts.” Ask yourselves who is REALLY being “silenced” here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bill.kenny.90 Bill Kenny

    Quite, few cancers are as lethal on civil society as ideological bigotry. This mob are an embarassment!!

    • terregles2

      Many of the demonstrators believe that Mr Farage is guilty of ideological bigotry with his views on immigration etc.

      • Noa

        “ideological bigotry”
        A truly marxist way of denigrating the political opinions of those with whom you disagree.

    • taranaich

      By the mob, I’m sure you’re talking about UKIP, right?

  • NorthBrit

    Oswald Moseley comes to the brave new East End.

    Why not save this kind of drivel for your ThickScotland propaganda site?

  • JPJ2

    Farage should rename his party for what it truly is, the EIP-but he wants power over Scotland as the last twitchings of BritNat imperialism (and a place on the “Prime Ministerial ” debates at the GE 2015 as a truly “national”(sic) party).
    He might hive off some of the Tory votes in the Aberdeen Donside by-election but all UKIP will prove on June 20 is how little support UKIP have in Scotland.

  • dougthedug

    “it seems obvious that one reason UKIP has failed to win support in Scotland is that Scotland already has a well-established and well-organised nationalist party.”

    Actually Scotland has four well-established and well-organised nationalist parties.

    The SNP who are scottish nationalists and Labour, the Tories and the Lib-Dems who are british nationalists.

    UKIP believe in a British nation and a British national identity so they’re trying to muscle into a crowded market already occupied by Labour, the Tories and the Lib-Dems who have been pushing this line against the SNP since the year dot.

    Nigel hasn’t worked out that he’s just peddling an old message in Scotland.

    • stuart.winton

      But there’s also at least an element of nascent European Nationalism, doug, which if the mainstream UK parties in the main buy into, UKIP clearly don’t, and are thus solely British nationalists.
      Indeed the Scottish nationalists seem among the keenest of all as regards this nascent European identity/nationalism, so while UKIP are primarily British nationalists, and the SNP prima facie Scottish nationalists, paradoxically the latter also seem keen on nascent European nationalism.
      So it’s a bit like the argument about dual British/Scottish identity really – the SNP seem more keen on dual Scottish/European nationality/identity. With of course an element of residual British nationality/identity – social union and all that – to boot!

    • Vrai écossais

      UKIP is the English Nationalist Party in all but name – and that is only because English nationalism it seen as racist and most English people think British and English mean the same thing.

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