Coffee House

English patriotism is one of the overlooked reasons for UKIP’s rise

3 May 2013

4:59 PM

3 May 2013

4:59 PM

What can account for UKIP’s remarkable surge in support in these elections? The conventional wisdom is that UKIP is now the ‘go to’ party for protest voters. Angry over Europe and immigration? Vote UKIP. Fear for your job and the future of the economy? Vote UKIP. Feel the main parties are ‘all the same’, run by metropolitan elites who don’t know how ordinary people live? Vote UKIP.

There is doubtless something in all of the above, but there is perhaps another explanation – overlooked until now – for UKIP’s rise: the growing tide of English patriotism.

Earlier in the year, figures from the 2011 census showed there had been a dramatic strengthening of English national identity in the last decade.  Fully 70 per cent of the English population identified themselves as either solely English or English in combination with some other national identity.

Now new data from a survey conducted by IPPR with Cardiff and Edinburgh universities shows that English identity is not just getting stronger, it is becoming politicised.

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And UKIP seems to be the main beneficiary of this important trend that is beginning to make its presence felt in English political life.

The reason is that it is exactly those voters who feel more strongly English who also believe that England is getting a raw deal from its membership of both the European Union and the current political settlement in the United Kingdom. Englishness is also more closely associated with concerns about immigration and globalisation. The inter-relation between these issues provides a significant opportunity for UKIP to further deepen its electoral appeal in England.

In the past UKIP has been reluctant to play the English card, for fear it might muddy their position on Europe and weaken the union. Yet their support is heavily concentrated in England, and it is England where anti-EU sentiment is strongest. And the widely held view that England has being neglected by an out of touch and remote political elite also works very effectively with their populist critique of mainstream politics.

All of this means that the Conservatives are being pushed off the ‘green and pleasant’ turf that they have always regarded as naturally theirs.

UKIP now tops the list of the parties that voters believe ‘best stands up for the interests of England’ with 21 per cent compared with Labour’s 19 per cent and the Conservatives 17 per cent. Moreover UKIP’s level of support on this question has more than doubled in just two years.

Even more strikingly, people who voted Conservative at 2010 general election  are almost evenly split on the party who they believe best stands up for England. 38 per cent say the Conservatives, 34 per cent say UKIP – and the number of Tories opting for UKIP has almost doubled from 18 per cent in 2011.

As they have on other issues, UKIP seems to be stealing a march on the Tories on increasingly fertile political territory. Tory high command will be worried enough about today’s result – but if UKIP was to more explicitly champion the cause of English nationalism it could, it seems, erode Conservative support still further.

Guy Lodge is Associate Director at IPPR. The findings from the Future of England Survey will be published in full by IPPR later this summer.

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Show comments
  • Vivek
  • http://www.facebook.com/ben.alltimes Ben Alltimes

    I consider myself English rather than British. What is Britishness? It is something artificial which is mostly promoted in England rather than across the UK. Roll on an independent England.

  • Lennart Andersson

    UKIP is great and so is Nigel Farage.

    All the best to the people of Great Britain!

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    I’ve posted some half-a-dozen comments on this topic and they’ve all been deleted. Have I been put on blanket delete?

  • LindaRivera

    em_mikha, In case you read this, PLEASE are you able to comment to let me know if you and your family are still SAFE! Circumstances have become extremely dangerous in your country. Please be extremely careful.

  • Seatofmypants

    The liberal left like to say that the English are a mongrel race and don’t really exist at all as a people with their own identity. Essentially they argue its because of large immigration over hundreds of years. Rather a self serving prophesy considering Labour’s open door policy when in power.

    What stands for England’s national identity New Labour despise. Particularly the white working class who they don’t understand but also the English middle class whose values are suspect. Take comments made by Jack Straw about the English being an “aggressive race.” Could anyone imagine him saying the Scots are a “xxxxx” bunch or the Irish are a “xxxxx” race? He would have been made to resign.

    I cant imagine any other country in the world where politicians sneer at their potential voters and get away without even the slightest censor from the media (though it says a lot of the BBC that it didn’t). But when the Labour elite do their damnedest to destroy a people’s national identity as a means of staying in power I suppose most things are possible.

    • http://twitter.com/Hughmanist Hugh

      “the white working class ”
      I thought Mrs Thatcher had abolished the working class.

  • http://twitter.com/Hughmanist Hugh

    What are you going to keep out of the country to preserve your ‘English identity’. Tooth-whitening,smartphones, Disney, cornflakes, Mormonism, Mo Farah?

  • thanksdellingpole

    English is a Culture, like the Welsh have their and the Germans, we are all known for our differences, whatever they may be. Yet now, with multiculturalism it is becoming increasingly difficult for people to discern the difference with so many foreign influences, indeed, it is only now that we are able to talk about it, as so much change has taken place.

    It is one thing be tolerant, but quite another to be weak. Why allow multiculturalism to bleach the identity of any country away, let alone your own. To defend one’s culture is not racist, it’s a pre-requisite to preserving your identity and it has been this way for thousands of years.

    http://culturisthub.org/

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Another topic on which the Spectator exercises heavy-handed censorship.
    How about a section exclusively for Brit residents abroad. It’s so tedious crossing literary swords with narrow-minded dross and risk-averse losers.
    And I say this with all due respect.

  • A-Polly-Tickle

    I am very proud to be English and see it as a positive force for good. If UKIP are the vehicle by which Englishness can shine like a beacon for the world, then so be it.

    For too long we have hidden behind the mask of Britishness, which in reality, was only a convenient label for empire. As soon as the empire went, it didn’t take long before the constituent parts of the UK began to look to their own interests. It has taken a lot longer for us English, partly because we do not like too much change, partly because our political masters of so-called mainstream parties have hardly dared to mention the name of England and Englishness, in fear it might upset somebody – if our implied national anonymity upset US, the English, then so be it; they think that we should know better than to be nasty English nationalists.

    But most of us are not ‘nationalists’ of the rampant kind. We are patriots who feel strongly attached to the land, this small piece of earth. Is it too much to ask that we would actually like to say what happens to it?

    Every culture has a right to protect itself… many English people recently must have felt, like me, that this right had been taken away from us.

    Just one thing, perhaps UKIP should consider changing their name… ? Maybe it’s too late for that now.

    But nevertheless, we are back, slowly emerging, like a strong, steady flame.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    The Spectator is getting more like the Telegraph by the day. Well, they do have the same owner.

  • ALEXANDROPOULOS FOUNDATION

    THERE IS ONLY, ONE PATRIOTISM, THE EUROPEAN. BRITISH,JUST, DON’T HAVE THAT, BECAUSE ARE NOT EUROPEANS.IT IS TIME FOR BREXIT. more info at http://alexfoundationunitedstatesofeurope.wordpress.com

    • Wessex Man

      Oh no not you! you’ve found your way over from The Staggers, still anyone wanting a good belly laugh should check out your ranting rubbish, just the once mind!

  • Abhay

    It is time to proclaim loudly that patriotism is good, that nationalism is good. These are ancient ideas that unite people in difficult times. The 3 centrist parties were battering these ideas. Thank god, UKIP has brought patriotism centre-stage!

    • telemachus

      The world has actually moved on from this

      • Abhay

        I don’t know if the world has moved on (well not the whole world). Yes, some western liberals surely have. They need to be brought back into the patriotic fold – even if they kick and scream.

        • telemachus

          On the contrary
          The onward march of history indicates that we must adhere to bigger groupings, in our case Europe
          It was quite a while ago that we only looke to our lord of the manor

          • Abhay

            The whole idea of ‘onward march of history’ and ‘continuous progress and perfection’ is a childish, discredited, Utopian idea which we should rightly distrust. The extremist Islamic movements are proving just that – wanting to take the world back into medieval theocratic Sharia.

            This Utopian idea of ‘perpetual human progress’ is actually a secularised version of the Middle-eastern, Abrahamic religious idea.

            • JohnG14

              You’re absolutely correct about the discredited notion of continuous progress. What troubles me tho’ is the fetish made of a particular historical / political idea i.e. nation. Why does an accident of geography mean that I should identify with the Cameron / Osborne elite who know nothing of my life or the lives of people like me. I share your contempt for the metropolitan ‘liberal’ elite and their smug complacency but I don’t understand why our contempt for them has to be turned against people who – like us – are struggling to cope with life’s uncertainty, and particularly its economic uncertainty. Why does an identity which has an emotional attachment to place have to be xenophobic – or in the case of the converts to UKIP – have to ally itself to a faction of the ‘British’ business community? My solidarity is with a Cameroonian not a Cameronian!

              • Abhay

                Thank you John for your thoughtful response. May I add some further ideas please.

                Life, indeed, as you say, is harsh and uncertain for most of us who are not from the elitist circles. Family and nation are 2 timeless institutions that human beings have that help us cope with life’s harshness.

                I look upon these 2 institutions as being organic in nature and not contrived. Most nations have emerged over centuries of struggle, conflict and emotional bonding. Nations also support unique cultural ideas and expressions.

                If we lose these institutions I am certain the human lot will court a lot more misery

                • JohnG14

                  Dear Abbay,

                  As you say, nation states emerged over centuries; they cannot therefore be timeless. I do acknowledge the importance of institutions which promote solidarity and mutual concern. Cameron is a ‘privileged cosmopolitan’; the elite have no sense of obligation to the wider community. The scandal of tax evasion / avoidance is evidence of that. However, in a globalized world there can no retreat into nostalgic forms of nationality. Absolutely, we need to recognize the legitimacy of democratic, local and national, affiliations. But we also can’t ignore the crucial importance of wider – in the best sense ‘cosmopolitan’ – responsibilities, without – following your earlier point – ‘utopian’ illusions. UKIP’s backward looking populism is of no help here at all. We need to broaden the debate to take in issues of sustainable economics (against rampant consumerism) and equality (against bugger ’em all self-interest) – nationally and globally. I defend the human rights of migrants and refugees but the best way of addressing the problems of global migration is to address the causes, and principally global inequality. Most of us are like hobbits really, and fairly sedentary by nature – apart from the young and curious. If we’re serious about finding a way out the impasse we ought to have the imagination to resist the temptation of an illusory past. Feeling at home is crucial, but our fate is inescapably caught up with that of others. The problem is that the critics of the ‘liberal’ (neo-liberal) elite, aren’t radical enough. All the best!!

                • Abhay

                  Dear John,
                  I am with you on the ‘out of touch’ elite. But just wish to add that such elite cut across present party lines. They are there in Labour and amongst the Lib Dems. Indeed, such people crowd the so called centre ground with little policy differences on the big issues of the day. That’s quite sad.

                  I also understand the current globalised climate having worked in companies that straddle large parts of the globe and draw working populations from a number of countries and earn their profits from several countries.

                  Nigel Farage actually in his speeches has been talking of wider engagement with the world. In fact he says that EU holds Britain back from negotiating its own trade treaties with other parts of the globe. The other thing – he does not want Britain’s military capability scaled down but wants it enhanced. That is not the hallmark of an isolationist.

                  On immigration, a nation has to take control of its borders. It will be anarchic otherwise. Also, one may have all the compassion (which is the way it should be) but a nation’s resources to fund compassionate projects is limited. That’s just a logical position.

          • James

            Nonsense. Codswallop. Garbage.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Patriotism is love of country while nationalism is hatred of other countries. Xenophobia takes it a step further with hatred of foreigners. Next stop, racism and bigotry. Football in Britain is the state sponsored junior league of
      patriotism. That’s why it’s so encouraged by Authority and has become a
      disproportionate part of the culture.

  • Dogsnob

    English patriotism is as valid as that of any other nation. It is a perfectly reasonable and respectable aim to want to have a place in this world which can be called our own and in which life is lived in the manner we feel it should and which we would like to pass on to our children.

    For too long, our practised politicians have insisted that our nation – as no other – must give up any idea of nationhood and homeland.

    They are very, very out of touch.

    • telemachus

      No England for a millenium has been at the centre of a conglomeration of principalities that has corporately conquered the world and is now well placed to supplant Germany as the leader of Europe

      • Dogsnob

        I’ll take you at your word that no England has been involved in such matters. However, with respect, could you, prior to any future postings, wait until you have fully woken up/recovered from substance abuse/seen a shrink. It’s just that your grasp on the English language seems to be sinking even further.

        Ask your carer if she’s sure all the tablets are in those little boxes in the right order.

    • Abhay

      You are spot on!
      And well said!!

  • th43

    UKIP Haven’t issued their national manefesto for the next election yet, but I believe there’s a promise to have a referendum on an English Parliament.
    As this is the only solution to England’s democratic deficit, I’ll vote UKIP just for that.

  • Pete Dicks

    I thought myself as British/English – then went to Scotland, and came back ENGLISH

    • Jambo25

      Strangely enough a lot of Scots feel exactly the same in reverse.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1314041131 Fungus Addams

    Yet UKIP remain vehemently opposed to a devolved English parliament / assembly. Any English nationalist who supports them in the mistaken belief that it will lead to the overdue establishment of an English parliament is making a foolish mistake. UKIP are, as their party name shows only to well, a Unionist party.

    They may well succeed in removing England from the toxic embrace of the EU, but they will still leave us to bear the burden of being tied into an outdated and increasingly unwanted Union with the other parts of the UK.

    • Wessex Man

      No we are not, Paul Nuttall, deputy Leader of UKip has drawn up a policy document for the creation of an English Parliament, you really should get your facts right before commenting! UKip are the only party to offer this!

      • telemachus

        Correct
        UKIP are the party of little englanders

        • Colonel Mustard

          So what? Better than than the party of genocidal, lying maniacs you support.

          • Wessex Man

            If I may comment Fungas Addams, Paul Nuttalls Plicy Proposal is just that a propsal; to be considered for the next General Election manifesto.

            The English Democrats are anything but Democratic and will achieve nothing in the to come and are fast disappearing you know where.

            So no you are not p**sing on my parade, sorry to disappoint you.

            telemachus, I would rather be in a party of little Englanders, than a party of racists like Labour, see Gordon Brown lead signing of the Scottish Claim of Right and abuser of the Englishwoman Gillian Duffy.

            Colonel Mustard, so true!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1314041131 Fungus Addams

        UKIP have NOT endorsed any policy at the present moment offering a devolved English parliament. That is a fact.

        I think you’ll also find that the English Democrats are another party that offer devolution from the EU and the UK. Although they have yet to achieve any mainstream success I’ll admit.

        Sorry to p**s on your chips there, but at the time of writing UKIP are, as they always have been, a Unionist, not English nationalist, party.

  • Shorne

    “We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
    Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
    It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
    Our wrath come after Russia’s wrath and our wrath be the worst.
    It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
    God’s scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
    But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
    Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.”

    GK Chesterton

    • telemachus

      He used English but it is documented that his sentiments were British

      • Colonel Mustard

        Interchangeable terms.

  • Smithersjones2013

    A lot of the problem for the Tories is their position on the English question (just as on the EU and on Immigration) does not add up. The idea that Westminster can cobble together some sort of English Votes For English Laws system.

    Unless one says that only an English Prime Minister can decide what policies are implemented or only an English Chancellor can agree the devolved public sector budgets or that only English MPs can serve as Ministers for devolved issues then trying to frig some system where only English MP’s vote on the 2nd reading of a law it is pointless because we would still have the interference of the likes of Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and John Reid.

    Not only that but the politics of the English question is well understood. It terrifies Labour and Libdem because 80% of the electorate is English and as the recent combined UKIP/Conservative vote signifies in England there is a latent right of centre majority which if the English question was resolved then much of Labours core (health, education, social management, justice, crime and so forth) would become the purview of an English Assembly.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Who speaks for England? Not Parliament. UKIP maybe. I look forward to an English Spring before the Three Horsemen of the Eurocalypse manage to cleanse the English entirely from their land.

      • telemachus

        There is no need to speak for England
        We live in the United Kingdom
        The ideal is for the United Kingdom to be an autonomous province of the United States of Europe, a force for peace and prosperity in this modern evolving world

        • Andy

          Well you try get the people to agree to that. Not only in England, but across Europe. I can tell you quite plainly what the answer will be: F*** Off.

          • telemachus

            Forget the across Europe bit
            We have never been shy before at laying our claim as a nation to lead

        • MichtyMe

          Will we have to call ourselves “Ukanians”

          • telemachus

            Brits
            As at present

          • Abhay

            Good one! If some liberals had their way that absurdity may yet come to pass.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Now let me get this straight. You come here day in day out to represent a party that pioneered devolution and therefrom the break up of the United Kingdom and yet you now say the ideal is for the United Kingdom to be an “autonomous province” of a European Soviet Union? Have you asked the Scots how they might feel about that? How does “autonomous province” gel with Milibandwagon’s cynical “One Nation” (“One nation, one party, one leader)?

          You really are just a provocative, mischief-making buffoon of quite incredible mental gymnastics. I shall speak for England if I want to, with no admonition from you in the matter, as will others. And the more you push your silly little “vision” the greater the strength of resentment will be.

          You do not prevail, telemachus, wart of this blog, you do not command. Your royal “we” is the inconsequent megalomania of a deluded fool and your comments ridiculous.

        • Abhay

          There is every need to speak for England. And that shouldn’t undermine the United Kingdom because the other constituents have their devolved law-making bodies. I therefore do not see any problem.

          • telemachus

            Our joint destinies and history are the same under Queen Elizabeth throughout the UK
            We need to work together to lead Europe

            • Abhay

              Yes. And still there is room for England. And no EU please.

              • telemachus

                I am proud of England

                I am proud that Henry the second began a policy of consolidation islands into one nation in the same way I am proud that my adopted county Lanncashire won the wars of the roses. As a Yorkshireman born and bred I am no Lambert Simnal.
                Life moves on and our horizens move forward
                We must be pf our town our county and our province within the United Kingdom but not go basckwards

                • Abhay

                  Then are you saying that devolved law making institutions for Scotland and other was a ‘backward’ idea?

  • elainesk

    Its great that the English folk are standing strong and proud to be English, thats as it should be….having that great sense of identity…….now maybe the English media and many from down south will lay of the Scots that also feel very strong about their Scottish identity. Thats how we fight against our government that try and stamp it out. We may live on the same island but we have very different traits and customs and its great to have so many multi cultural folk on one island but lets stand proud and say what we are….we are Scottish, we are English,Welsh and Irish and live in the British Isles.

    • Wilhelm

      ” and it’s great to have so many multi cultural folk on one island ”

      Like you mean, muslim terrorists, black criminals and gypsy parasites, yeah, the vibrancy is just ‘great.’

      • telemachus

        What about the white gangsters
        The Krays and their successors

        • Colonel Mustard

          They were born here not imported.

          • telemachus

            My point

        • JohnG14

          Well at least the Krays were ‘ours’ and the streets were clean and Gor Blimey Guv’ everyone had his (sic) place! Ah, I see Colonel Bustard said more or less the same thing

      • Abhay

        It is time to bury multi-culti – and so deep that it never resurfaces with its ugly face and wicked brain.

    • Wessex Man

      It’s the case that Scots regularly post on here about wicked English and when asked for examples of our wickness have none. What have the Romans done for us?

      • telemachus

        Thursday documented the actions of the wicked english

        • Colonel Mustard

          Others have documented the actions of wicked Labour and of wicked traitors like you.

    • Wessex Man

      elainesk

      I really wish that when people like you make these outrageous slurs upon us, 68% of us wish you well at least and if allowed to vote in your referendum would vote yes to your independence.

  • http://twitter.com/VisceralRage Slicer

    The Labour think-tank IPPR, which is funded by the EU Commission must really not like what their survey has found considering they advocate the abolishment of England as a nation. The Conservatives should be trumpeting England’s cause but because they are stacked with mainly pro-EU pseudo-conservatives that support abolishing England as a nation as well, they won’t. UKIP support an English parliament and the conservatives will never advocate such a thing. If UKIP are smart they will gradually adopt more pro-England rhetoric and develop policies that are England centric.

    • telemachus

      UKIP are little Englanders already
      EDL members are very comfortable in their midst

      • Colonel Mustard

        Stalking the thread, painting your tediously predictable graffiti on every comment.

  • Stephen Gash

    The Tories are losing ground in England because they have betrayed their voters. English voters gave the Conservatives a landslide victory in 2010, in England, but the first thing David Cameron did was to scuttle up to Scotland to remind them just how wonderful they are. At the same time he reminded the English he would have no truck with “sour Little Englanders”. Then the Tories increased the flow of cash and jobs into Scotland, over and above that Scots-led Labour had persisted with over its 13 years of England-hating rule. The latest Tory insult was the redirection of £700 million of EU cash away from England to the rest of the UK, that the Scot Michael Fallon shamelessly crowed about. Fallon is just one of over 30 Scottish MPs with constituencies in England. Carlisle returned a Conservative MP for the first time in fifty years in the last general election. He too is a Scot. The Tories are just about the most anti-English party in Westminster, not that there is a pro-English one. The English have been, and are being, excluded from the devolution process. We have not, as a nation, had a referendum about it and certainly no party at Westminster will even entertain the thought of a referendum on an English parliament. UKIP has an English parliament as a policy, but allegedly Scottish backers are insisting the party drops it. However, these same Scots have no plans to disestablish Scotland’s parliament. The Clan Macakeneatit mentality reigns supreme. Sixteen year-old Scots are likely to have more say on the UK’s future than adult English folk. An English parliament is no longer enough. Full independence from both the UK and EU is essential for England to thrive. England is recognised neither as a region nor a nation by both the EU and UK, evidenced by the list of members of the British-Irish Council, where England does not exist. England has no direct representation in the EU, whereas Scotland and Wales do, and of course the reviled regions. The Tories are toast in England.

    • Andy

      As I said earlier Cameron should address the West Lothian Question. Exclude Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs from voting on and debating matters which only apply to England. I’m sure the LibDems would object because you would have a Tory majority. He could make that an election issue too.

      • Stephen Gash

        With respect that’s not enough. The Welsh have had three referenda on their assembly while we English await our first on an English parliament. Why should England be the only EU country without its own elected chamber? Particularly as England invented modern parliamentary democracy. A mere 22% of the Welsh electorate voted for increased Welsh Assembly powers, and got them. On that basis we English would surely get an English parliament with our own First Minister.

    • Colonel Mustard

      The British government has even prevaricated on the question of what constitutes English indigenousness in the face of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which flies in the face of what New Labour have tried to do to the English in their own country. Check out the Wiki entry on indigenous peoples, look at the various definitions by world organisations and not how many of them apply to the English.

    • Jambo25

      You really do hate , us Scots, don’t you? What a nasty little xenophobe you are.

      • Stephen Gash

        That beggars belief. Scotland is a nation filled with anti-English xenophobes. Why else would students from England be the only ones paying full tuition fees while studying in Scotland, out of all the EU? Scots cared more about cancer sufferer Al Megrahi than any English cancer patient, which is why the Scottish government introduced a residency rule to stop “health tourism from England” of patients like George King of Darlington, who could not get cancer drugs in England and was going to move to Scotland where they were freely available on the Scottish Health Service. It was that particular story that turned me against the laughably named United Kingdom altogether. If the Scots, and for that matter Welsh and Irish, had a good word to say about us, it wouldn’t be so bad, but they don’t. And before anybody asks ” can you blame them?” I think it’s fair to say I’m not a typical Englishman, because if I were, then all the iniquitous inequities dumped on the English by devolution would not have happened, for one thing. English goodwill to our so-called “fellow Brits” has been pushed to the limit.

        • Jambo25

          Thank you for that second rant. It simply confirms my previous posting.

          • Stephen Gash

            As you say nothing, nothing is confirmed.

            • Jambo25

              I thought calling you a Scottophobic xenophobe was saying something.

              • Stephen Gash

                Clearly you’re mistaken.

  • raymond francis jones

    A few words that have good meanings,but are dirty words for the big 3.Patriots.love of country and its people.big 3 Racism.Protectionism,ability to protect country.Big 3 racism.Immigration,control to prevent the over kill.Big3 racism.

  • http://www.wwwbarkingspider.com/ Barking Spider

    I sincerely hope that by the time the general election has been held in 2015 that you find it’s not only the rise of English patriotism, Guy, but the rise of British patriotism.

  • sarahsmith232

    been saying this today. this is the English saying ‘we want our country back’ with the use of our vote. Labour killed England. there’s hardly anything still left. in London, nothing, there is nothing English about London anymore, nothing.
    this is the anti PC, multi-culturalism, mass immigration, Leftie egalitarian/equalities and lunatic human rights agendas vote.

    • Wilhelm

      Liberalism is a mental illness, it’s happening in every white country.

      Japan for the Japanese.
      India for the Indians.
      Africa for the Africans.
      European nations for everyone.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Yes, it really is quite bizarre to imagine some sanctimonious, public sector parasite, lefty twerp in Japan, looking around sniffily and saying “This country is too hideously Japanese. It needs more gaijin to enrich it and to bring vibrant multi-cultural diversity. Let’s embark on a programme of imposed mass immigration.”

        • telemachus

          The Japanese could well do with a dose of immigration to save the world from its resurgent militarism

          • Colonel Mustard

            And there we have it again. The admission by telemachus that his socialist aspirations must be coerced, imposed, forced on others whether they like it or not. A warning from history and I hope those contemplating voting for the likes of him and his disgusting, genocidal party mark it well.

            PS There is no resurgent militarism in Japan, which you would understand if you were not so blindly racist and prejudiced towards the Japanese.

          • Abhay

            Why don’t you move to Japan and give them your advice. They might even gift you some Sake. Stay clear of the Samurai swords – am told they are quite sharp!

        • sarahsmith232

          yep, was thinking I could have added so much more if only i’d have had a bit more imagination. should def’ have stuck the words limp dicked before the Leftie part. spot on with your hideously reference.
          the Guardian reading chattering classes are not getting it when they parrot out their ‘my son experienced racism while at uni’ in Cornwall. . . he asked a girl out and she said no, obviously this is the product of their backward, ignorant whiteness’ following the herd, air head statements. they’ve convinced themselves that they represent the only holier than thou bulwark against the endemic white, ignorant, Little Englander imperialistic racism menacing society and any policy that can wipe that out is unquestionably a morally saintly endeavour.
          prob’, they’re all pathetically brainwashed middle-class sheep that hold the kind of views on the ‘lower orders’ that could make a Hooray Henry blanche. they define themselves against how they see a Ukip voter, something that has to be understood as a caricature. it’s they that are the ignorant, class imperialists menacing society. a Ukip vote, I think, is an angry response to all of this.

          • telemachus

            This reads to me like the rantings we see on the EDL website

            There is no class

            We are alkl equal in the sight of God which means equal opportunity in our increasingly polarised society

            The fact that a few class conscios little englanders have highjacked the Tory Right to form the independence partyo

            • Colonel Mustard

              There was more opportunity until your friends in the Labour party destroyed grammar schools. There was more intelligence until your friends in the Labour party dumbed down schools and brainwashed children.

              We’ll take no lectures in polarisation from the advocate of a party that from 1997-2010 made polarisation and divisiveness the central pillars of its rotten creed, from agenda-driven identity groups to the devolution that will break the UK apart, from the uncontrolled, mass immigration that will eventually lead to sectarian violence to the appalling economic policies that increased the gap between the rich and the poor.

        • sarahsmith232

          yep, was thinking I could have added so much more if only i’d have had a bit more imagination. should def’ have stuck the words limp dicked before the Leftie part. spot on with your hideously reference.
          the Guardian reading chattering classes are not getting it when they parrot out their ‘my son experienced racism while at uni’ in Cornwall. . . he asked a girl out and she said no, obviously this is the product of their backward, ignorant whiteness’ following the herd, air head statements. they’ve convinced themselves that they represent the only holier than thou bulwark against the endemic white, ignorant, Little Englander imperialistic racism menacing society and any policy that can wipe that out is unquestionably a morally saintly endeavour.

          • sarahsmith232

            prob’, they’re all pathetically brainwashed middle-class sheep that hold the kind of views on the ‘lower orders’ that could make a Hooray Henry blanche. they define themselves against how they see a Ukip voter, something that has to be understood as a caricature. it’s they that are the ignorant, class imperialists menacing society. a Ukip vote, I think, is an angry response to all of this.

      • Abhay

        I agree with you. Liberalism can lead to absurd ideas. The disease has spread beyond Europe and America and is even there in some Asian countries now. The only beneficiary of it is violent, insurrectionary, intolerant, radical Islam with its dreams of global caliphate. Sharia has to be defeated totally.

      • JohnG14

        … and India for the Empire; Africa for every aspiring colonial power (including Belgium, I ask you). They’re here because we were there. How may Brits are expats?

    • Joshaw

      “in London, nothing, there is nothing English about London anymore, nothing”

      A bit simplistic. Any traditionally English event will filter the population and it will look more or less the same as it did 50 years ago. There’s very little integration. There are two Londons, just as there are two Bradfords and two Rochdales. London has the advantage of being much bigger.

      I arranged to meet someone outside the National Gallery a few weeks ago and, apart from a few European accents, I was struck by how little had changed. The damage is concentrated elsewhere.

      • Jambo25

        I believe that less than 20% of property bought in Central London is now bought by UK passport holders. My old stamping ground of Highbury Terrace is simply way outside the dreams of someone from my background now. It wasn’t 40 years ago. Chunks of London are now entirely given over to imported super rich serviced by imported poor from the developing world.

        Our joint political/media class now live in North and West London bubbles cut off from the views of the peasants elsewhere. We , in Scotland, have pretty much known this for going on 50 years or so and I suspect it accounts for much of the rise of Scottish Nationalism. You, in non-metropolitan England are starting to realise it as well.

        • Joshaw

          My in-laws are Scottish and obsessed with London, blaming it for every single misfortune.

          The problem is not geography, it’s a mindset, and can be found outside London as well. As I recall, members of the last Government, having more members from outside the SE, were no better.

          I grew up in West Yorkshire and clearly recall the gulf between attitudes in the Dales and wealthy outlying towns and villages, and the poorer parts of Bradford, which were learning to cope with waves of immigration from Pakistan.

          • Jambo25

            Are you telling me that large chunks of Central London aren’t dominated by super-rich and and very poor servant classes? I’m not obsessed with London. I just think that the UK is grossly over centralised and dominated by a London based political/media class which is increasingly out of touch with ‘provincial’ Britain. From the look of it, a lot of England seems to take that view as well.

            • Joshaw

              UKIP’s main attraction is its stance on immigration and the EU. These are issues on which many politicians from north of the border could be criticised. The same could be said of the economy.

              It’s no surprise that UKIP has done extremely well in Lincolnshire. Nigel Farage, born in Kent, educated at a London private school, has not to my knowledge voiced any intention of pressing for the relocation of Parliament outside London. It’s not necessary because, as I said above, it’s the mindset that needs correcting, not the geography.

              If London were the problem, the Scottish Parliament would be free of these vices, but it doesn’t seem to me to be a huge improvement.

              • Jambo25

                Do you know anything about the Scottish Parliament? I doubt it otherwise you wouldn’t have written your last sentence. Holyrood can be criticised for many things but not the total unreality of Westminster.

            • AlisonMS

              You may or may not be obsessed with London but “class” seems to be coming up a lot.

              • Jambo25

                I tried to reply to this yesterday but for some reason it didn’t register so I’ll repeat. I used the term ‘class’ on here to refer to the political and media groups based in North and West London. Perhaps I should have used the term political and media caste. Whatever the case, There is clearly a split between the culture, views and make-up of that London based class/caste and many of the rest of the population. That appears to be particularly true of many older people on the centre-right which probably explains the particular pattern of UKIP’s support.

  • Wilhelm
    • Wilhelm

      2066, ironic since it’s the thousand year anniversary of the Battle of Hastings.

  • Magnolia

    Paul Goodman recently described the PM’s attitude to critisism of his choice of policy advisers as a “no surrender” moment because he just kept on appointing male public school educated friends who were the mirror image of himself.
    He illustrated his piece with a clip of the song ‘No Surrender’ by Bruce Springsteen.

    Now this catchy tune and its lyrics would be more suited to a clip of Nige in a UKIP ad., because that is what UKIP is really all about,
    NO SURRENDER!
    The trouble with the Modern Conservatives is that they are surrendering so much of what is precious.
    The green fields of Britain, built on, industrialised with turbines.
    The money debasement.
    Changing a centuries old definition of marriage without prior consent.
    Contempt and tax disadvantage for traditional families of all kinds.
    Setting young against old, private sector against public, poor against rich and South against North.
    Stealth taxes.
    The persistent use of the word deficit to disguise a failure to deal with our debts.
    The real problem is that the PM long ago surrendered to ‘Blairism’ and he’s trying to take the country back to where it doesn’t want to go.
    He’s ramming it down our throats because he is blinkered, stubbon and won’t be told.
    Patriotism is an all together more complicated entity.
    UKIP are the ‘No Surrender’ Party.

    • JohnG14

      .. this sceptered isle, this land where man knew his place and woman kept hers, this home where hearths were always warm, this village green, this melancholic fiction!

      • Colonel Mustard

        Clearly you don’t know your place which is not here.

      • telemachus

        Nope
        It is the UKIP manifesto

    • http://twitter.com/VisceralRage Slicer

      Pitting groups against each other is something the Marxists advocated as a strategy to weaken a country and it’s society. I would say the conservatives have been steadily compromised by leftists, which is how you end up with pseudo-conservatives like David Cameron as conservative party leader.

      • Colonel Mustard

        I agree.

  • http://www.facebook.com/tony.crotty.90 Tony Crotty

    It’s about time a politician stood up for English people,in Wales, Scotland and northern Ireland politicians are proud of their nationality but in England the abuse given to those who are proud to be English is near racism

    • Andy

      No it IS racism. That is what Labour peddle. And the reason is they want English Gold as they always have. If Cameron had any oil in his lamp he would immediately address the West Lothian Question, and you do that by excluding MPs who do not sit for English seats from voting and debating any matter that pertains just to England. In other words any devolved matter. Who could object to such a democratic and fair solution.

      • Jambo25

        Please do. It will make Scottish independence inevitable next year.

        • Andy

          Good.

  • ButcombeMan

    Transparent and idiotic mischief making.

    Because nationalism is somehow tainted

    It is UK (IP)

    It is UK (IP) for a reason.

  • MichtyMe

    A by election for the Borders Council yesterday. No 20% for UKIP, just bottom of the poll and a handful of votes. Perhaps they should change their name, the peoples of these lands prefer not to have their identities concealed by the burqa of britishness imposed by the governing metropolitan elites.

    • Austin Barry

      Isn’t Alex Massie the only voter in the Borders?

      • MichtyMe

        Hmmm, about 3500 voted, but as it was Melrose Alex could have been one of them. Expect several hundred words on its significance.

  • biggestaspidistra

    Haven’t we just been told it was ‘ukip’, or has Mr Lodge not read the Spectator style guide yet?

  • telemachus

    No no no
    Not English Patriotism
    little englandism
    They are the repository of small minded individuals who cannot see beyond white is white, england is England and Johnny foreigner cannot be trusted
    Now the microscope is on them we will see them for what they are

    • OldLb

      Really?

      Where are you having a go at the little Scots and the miniscule Welsh?

      I think the real hidden cause is that people have a natural inbuilt anger against being ripped off.

      Anger about people getting something for nothing particularly when they are the ones paying the price.

      That comes from low skilled migration, people claiming disability when they could work, politiicians on the take, banks ripping them off (PPI), and scroungers playing the welfare system.

      • telemachus

        We need the labour force
        We will need it more as the Labour boom starts in 2015

        • Nicholas chuzzlewit

          Followed by a massive bust in 2016. The IMF have probably booked every last hotel room in Britain in anticipation of the disaster that will befall this country when the Reds get their hands on the cheque book again. Personally, I am investing in soup kitchens, aid stations etc in anticipation of the follies of Ed Balls.

        • Colonel Mustard

          As usual you dodge the very pertinent challenge and just parrot another Labour slogan. What a weasel you are.

          • Andy

            Now, now. He is doing what he is told to do by Fascist Party HQ.

          • telemachus

            OK the foreigners who come are by definition not the disabled but those with oomph
            These are what we need to supplement your work-shy Brits

            • Colonel Mustard

              And you dodge it again. So I’ll ask it again:-

              “Where are you having a go at the little Scots and the miniscule Welsh?”

              Well?

              • telemachus

                I do not hear them kicking Johnny foreigner as do the little Englanders

                Yes they want to rid themselves of the Home Counties set who have tried to laud it over them since King Edward but as internationalists they can teach England a thing or two

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Off comes the mask again. If you really believed in the diversity your wretchedly dissembling part-eh is always braying about you would “celebrate and embrace” the diversity of the Home Counties set. Instead you reveal your hatred of not just them but England too.

                  Hatred. From a bunch of hypocritical loons who brought once fine, free England the concept of “hate speech”. You are just another socialist self-hater who puts the well-being of foreigners ahead of your countrymen and women.

                  “Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.”
                  ― George Orwell

                  Salmond talks of Scottish Nationalism. Milibandwagon talks of “One Nation”. I speak of patriotism.

                • Fergus Pickering

                  Laud it? Laud it?

            • terence patrick hewett

              I am afraid you will have very little to do after we automation engineers have finished with you.

              • telemachus

                Nope
                Even the most automated societies need strawberry pickers

                • terence patrick hewett

                  No they don’t Telemachus: fruit and veg picking is well achieved by automated machines.

                  Artificial Intelligence is about to sunder the link between economic growth and jobs and the relatively inexhaustible supply of ever cheaper computing power will have profound effects upon the order of society; certainly within the lifetime of our children.

                  The word “machine” covers a whole host of devices. Currently an enormous part of our life is now controlled by mathematical algorithms once set in motion, chunter on until they reach their conclusion. These systems and devices remove whole swathes of functions completely.

                  Several years ago I attended the Turing Lecture given by Professor Christopher Bishop under the auspices of the IET/BCS in London. It concerned recent developments in probabilistic modelling; the greatly expanded variety and scale of machine learning applications, and the future potential for this technology. Just about every industry was present except the people whom AI will affect the most: those of government and trade unions.

                  These are not the fulminations from the overheated brain of a techno-nerd; these technologies and proto-technologies are already in place here, now. Advances in computing, quantum computing, materials, nanotechnology, biotechnology and cognitive science will change the world in ways we cannot hope to predict. But what we have to appreciate is that devices inspired by artificial intelligence are not intelligent in the sense that they are sentient beings; they have no moral sense and no real intelligence; it just appears that they have these qualities.

                  We as a country can no longer afford to view the future as a place that can look after itself: if we do then the future will devour us.

        • LB

          A partial truth to disguise a lie.

          Lets look at migrants.

          1. Do we need Abu Qatata?

          http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4909987/France-shows-Britain-how-to-kick-out-likes-of-Abu-Qatada.html

          10 year, 9.6 million trying to get rid of him.

          That’s one extreme, and I doubt even you would claim that he’s a financial benefit to the UK.

          2. What about Abromovich? He’s been pumping money in to Chelsea. Spending and investing in the UK. Now you may be a closet Arsenal fan, but here you have one example of a migrant to the UK who is a financial benefit.

          Somewhere between the two extremes there is a line at which that migrant is a benefit and not taking money from others, or causing others to be on welfare.

          A reasonable measure is that they pay more in tax than the average government spend. If they move here, on average that’s what its going to cost over their lifetime. That’s 11K a year, That’s over 40K a year in income per migrant. Man, woman and child. Very few meet that criteria, and that’s why lots of the migrants aren’t needed.

          [The pensions they accrue are ignored, and t hat makes it worse]

          Evidence based argument. We don’t need any old migrants, we just need the ones who pay their way.

          That includes new migrants. It includes existing migrants. The bit people like you and politicians won’t talk about.

          Net migration is irrelevant. Its about sorting out the ones who are here already that aren’t a benefit, stopping those who aren’t a benefit from coming, and welcoming those who are.

          • telemachus

            You mention 2 criminals one with and one without money
            I talk the migrants hungry to make good and by doing so contribute to our economy
            This is 95+% of all migrants

            • Colonel Mustard

              You should check the statistics for crime committed by East Europeans. Farage spoke about it on QT.

              According to the statistics, the number of Romanian inmates in prison rose from 454 in September 2011 to 624 last month. Fraudsters from Rumania are responsible for 92 per cent of all ATM crime in Britain, according to police figures.

              One of the most notorious examples is Gheorge Banu who, in 2005 was the ringleader of a gang who used fake ATM machines to record financial details to take £643,000 from customers’ accounts. A judge had already asked for his deportation after a previous conviction.

              The number of Polish prisoners, the largest East European group in British jails, has climbed 10 per cent to 807; enough to fill Belmarsh high security jail in London.
              Of the eight mid and Eastern European nations represented in British prisons, including Albania and Slovakia, only Latvia saw its numbers go down.

              British taxpayers are already paying more than £90million a year to fund the 2,400 Eastern Europeans currently in jail, at a rate of £38,000 per prisoner.

    • Wessex Man

      There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND.

      Sir Winston Churchill.

      • telemachus

        Yes
        But not little england

        • Colonel Mustard

          “little england” only exists within your own prejudices against England. You are, simply, a traitor who hates his countrymen and women.

          • Abhay

            Well said Colonel !

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            How can you betray a country that’s already betrayed you?

  • Austin Barry

    Best not to feel too strongly about England lest the bearded men come for you, and I don’t mean Gordon Brown types.

  • James

    Politicians have twisted patriotism into racism to accommodate the rise of foreign immigrants and religious fanatics. English has been replaced with British and instead of celebrating our heritage and culture we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone else. This is to suit the EU corporate agenda, but as we see all over Europe, it creates near civil war. I’m proud to be English and it bothers me that I am meant to be a 2nd class citizen to foreign doctrines.

    • telemachus

      This heinous philosophy is gladly not that of the silent majority who want our great nation to prosper
      To prosper we need to take our leadership place properly in Europe and we need our ossifying science and industry to benefit from the fine minds and energy from round the world

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1296945479 John McClane

        I wish you, telemachus, were one of the silent majority.

        • telemachus

          The message of the future of our great country is too important to leave to the Farage Triumphalism of today

          • MirthaTidville

            Well I`d rather have Farage Triumphalism than the craven surrender traitors like you propose

            • telemachus

              Now just which will save us from the current economic decline

              • Colonel Mustard

                Well it won’t be Labour.

                • Andy

                  Too right Colonel. It was the bloody Labour Party that created the mess in the first place.

                • http://www.facebook.com/GothicAuthoress Amy Marshall

                  The trouble with Labour was they had one agenda – and that was to rub ‘diversity’ into the faces of the Conservatives. And by doing so, they truly opened the floodgates to the worst (if not) most detrimental system this and other European nations have ever experienced and that was Islam.

                  If any system has ever undermined a nation so badly, Islam has. And even worse, we have allowed the pathetic EU to tie our hands and bind us deeper into the mess of Human Rights, which in reality is a farce, since the people who we cannot seem to deport don’t care about anyone else’s Human Rights.

                  Labour left us an horrific legacy.

              • Patricia

                Why are we in decline with so many immigrants and “their fine minds” ?

              • Wessex Man

                So you want us saved just like the Greeks, Irish, French, Portugese and Italians. Are you Ken Clarke in disguise?

                • telemachus

                  Southern Europe need leadership not German hegemony

          • Colonel Mustard

            Well, he has something to be triumphant about today. You on the other hand regale us daily with Labour triumphalism over a General Election two years away!

            On yer bike!

            • telemachus

              In 2015 there will be no triumphalism
              We will get to work to induce the growth denied for the last 5 years
              You will soon thereafter have the prosperity you remember throughout Gordon’s Chancellorship

              • Colonel Mustard

                Crossing bridges and counting chickens. We’ll see.

                • telemachus

                  We must believe

              • Fergus Pickering

                Ho ho ho ho ho

              • blingmun

                The credit card will magically start working again eh?

                • telemachus

                  If that is what is necessary for growth

                • blingmun

                  That was how Gordon Brown did it.

          • Dogsnob

            When you say ‘our great country’, who is included in this possession?

            • telemachus

              the UK

              • Dogsnob

                So anyone in the world who happens to travel here? It’s their great country is it?

      • Colonel Mustard

        Let’s see the evidence of polling to back up your statement. Labour always boast that “the public” want this and want that. Prove it!

        • telemachus

          Forget polling
          The logistics of the constituencies together with the Farage Tory Exocet will deliver the famous victory

          • Colonel Mustard

            You said, referring to simple English patriotism:- “This heinous philosophy is gladly not that of the silent majority”.

            Now prove it. No more ducking, diving and dissembling. Provide the evidence or STFU.

            • telemachus

              Polls show that even 3 months ago 39.2% of UKIP intended voters were considering a UKIP vote not because of immigration or Europe but because they were disillusioned with the coalition did not have the refuge of a LibDem protest and did not trust the Greens

              • http://www.facebook.com/maria.gorska.750 Maria Gorska

                But you just said forget polling! Make up your mind!

                • Colonel Mustard

                  He’s a heckler not a debater. His dogmatic comments are the equivalent of protest march slogans and leave no room for discussion. When he is challenged for evidence he just slips sideways to appear later with another slogan. The most reprehensible troll ever encountered and he happens to be here.

                • telemachus

                  This is serious business
                  This my future and my childrens future
                  And yours
                  We are seeing the fruits of you and your policies at present and see our great nation going into decline
                  If UKIP and assorted Tory fruitcakes get their way and little englanders truly hold sway it will be terminal decline
                  WE cannot let that happen
                  There is no room for argument

                • alexsandr

                  childrens future? paying back your debts? I bet they will be grateful -not

                • telemachus

                  With the taxes from generated growth rolling in not only will the deficit be gone but the debt will be shrinking

                • Colonel Mustard

                  There is always room for argument and dissent in a diverse democracy. Only a fascist or Stalinist would suggest otherwise.

                  Don’t presume to speak for everyone and don’t presume your views are exclusively correct. Many others hold opinions that differ.

                • Dogsnob

                  What mind?

              • Colonel Mustard

                Stop dodging. I want to see your evidence that a silent majority think English patriotism is a heinous philosophy. Come on. Prove it.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Ho ho ho

      • Patricia

        Yes, their minds are so fine they can’t make a decent fist of their own countries.

      • Wessex Man

        “I believe in angels in every thing they say”

        • telemachus

          Do you mean Angela

          • Wessex Man

            No I mean you in LaLa land with milepede and it’s a balls up, strange how the normal suspects except you have not appeared on here. Would you care to remind us of the Labour majority in the by-election, was it up with the electorate fed up with the Government and voting for the “main opposition” or did thousands go elsewhere?

      • UKSteve

        Utopian bilge, utterly unsupported by proof or even mere reasoned argument.

        • telemachus

          There are things that “we hold to be self evident”

          • UKSteve

            In other words, you have none.

      • vieuxceps2

        They told me Telemachus,they told me you were dead,
        They brought me cheery words to hear and tears of joy to shed….

        • telemachus

          Were I to be my friends would ensure reasonableness

          • vieuxceps2

            “my friends would ensure reasonableness”
            What, both of them?

      • evad666

        Our science and industry are not ossified. Those who manage it are.

      • evad666

        Rubbish we need to reprioritize our own fine minds and energy which are when unchained far better than the imported variety.

    • JohnG14

      What do you mean by ‘our heritage and culture’? I mean – in no particular order – the Tolpuddle Martyres, Tom Mann, Ned Ludd, Watt Tyler, the Diggers, Tom Paine, Sylvia Pankhurst, the anti-Poll Tax campaign.

      This has nothing to do with the ‘heritage and culture’ represented by Farage and other nostalgic reactionaries.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You missed out the Countryside Alliance.

        • James

          My mother will shout for the countryside alliance and give you a marrow for your ears. I’ll get onto that in a few years.

      • James

        Perhaps you went to a Labour school. Erm, contribution to civil liberties, invention, communications, science, chemistry, technology, art, language, literature, culture, music, poetry…

      • Fergus Pickering

        Well I don’t mean any of that. Nothing for Shakespeare.Nothing for Dickens Nothing for cricket, beer and skittles. What a tedious fellow you are. Do you never take a rest from politics?

      • UKSteve

        Rubbish. Of course it has.

        But out of curiosity, why mention only people from centuries or decades ago?

        • telemachus

          OK
          Tottenham Riots
          Student Tuition fee riots
          From this actual Parliament

          • UKSteve

            Totally brainless.

    • Andy

      Well said ! I too thank God everyday that I was born an Englishman.

      • evad666

        And with respect to the rise of UKIP all three main partiies have forced the electorate’s hand on this we are sick of being treated like clowns and accused of racism while others are left free to plot our deaths through violent action.

    • Roy

      Very true. Everyone it seems has caught the bug to cut out the word England and replace it with UK. Strange that many Americans still call anybody from the British Isle; English. Not before time the English national identity gathers strength and forces some pride and morel fibre into the people that appear to have fallen asleep during an attempt to smother them. Only hard times can bring this on, unfortunately.

      • James

        We are a nation that looks out for each other and have stuck together through thick and thin, which makes us great. We’ve fought more courageous enemies than a bunch of lying, immoral, treacherous cowards, under the disguise of politicians.

        • telemachus

          UKIP want us to fragment and clearly fit your apt description

          “a bunch of lying, immoral, treacherous cowards”

          • Simon Semere

            well I wouldn’t call them lying, treacherous, cowards, they also represent the people (just maybe not as finely tuned as UKIP) and these politicians still have people voting for them. To call these politicians cowards is to call their voters cowards, and they are not, it takes a lot more strength to remain centered when angered at politicians disregard for the anxious electorate.

            • telemachus

              And vapid
              The people will soon see through them

              • Simon Semere

                You do a better job than Nick Griffin in contributing to the rise of fascism, continue!

          • James

            Hardly cowardly to take on the empire.

          • UKSteve

            Yes exactly. That’s why they have “United” in the name of the party, and are opposed to Scottish devolution.

            Spectacular ridiculousness.

    • UKSteve

      Quite brilliant piece, James.

      • telemachus

        Except that it will detract from the main conclusion yesterday that they are mainstream and put them back with the EDL, BNP, National Front etc
        Which is of course where they belong

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Pocock/1619636697 Steve Pocock

      So by you finally waking up to your Englishness means you can now comprehend how the Scots and Welsh have felt for hundreds of years. The UKIP should rename itself the EIP and grant confederation status to the other countries of the UK, coming together as equals.

      • Colonel Mustard

        As a modest student of history I have for many a long year fully comprehended the attitude of the Scots and Welsh down the centuries. The burning question is who, after independence when the English vacate the role, will they find to blame for all their ills?

        • MichtyMe

          And for some others the EU supplies that role.

          • Colonel Mustard

            No, not blamed for all ills and not down through the centuries. The EU is a relatively recent irritant which is why the talk of “isolation” when we leave is such arrant tripe.

      • telemachus

        Given the clear undertones of the party I would have thought the UKEDL would better fit the bill

        • http://www.facebook.com/GothicAuthoress Amy Marshall

          And why do you find that a problem?

          • telemachus

            In our multicultural society it is inflammatory

          • The_Missing_Think

            He has stated that some of his family members are mixed race.

            He believes that his family’s future will be more secure and prosperous in a non-English, multi-racial England… politics isn’t an objective sport.

    • http://www.facebook.com/GothicAuthoress Amy Marshall

      James, I couldn’t have said it better myself. The worst treachery we have ever encountered from within is by the UAF/SWP whom deem the English flag inappropriate, yet they never question anyone else’s identity. The Far Left have nearly eroded everything we ever created and innovated. I am proud that we are dragging ourselves back upwards and showing people that we are not going to be secondary in our own nation, nor are we going to accept the continual ingratitude of immigrants who feel we are a soft touch.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Lewis/100003310756277 Richard Lewis

      yes…remember those called “british” before the UK state 1707….were only the welsh and cornish speakers

      History is there, its hidden in obscure references….but the truth it there

      The british were originally of celtic cultures

  • Mr Creosote

    If you want a measure of the depth of feeling and discontent among voters, from a standing start 4 weeks ago, our local UKIP candidate just polled half as many votes as the Conservative leader of the local Council – a “professional” councillor with many years experience.

    • telemachus

      Yes discontent but not exactly a positive vote for the party of racial exclusion just reiterated by Farage on the BBC as he occupied his whole slot banging on about Romanians and Bulgarians

      • dalai guevara

        Isn’t it curious – all the Metropolitan borough councils, fully integrated multi-culturally and run without a fruit loop in sight – a different picture with the townies who still have not got their heads round the fact that Morris is a dance of Iberian origin.

        • Number 7

          Originally derived from the “Mummers” – feudal, agricultural workers raising “extra curricular” cash.

        • Colonel Mustard

          You can run the Morris down as much as you like but some of us don’t much care for fully integrated (ha!) multi-culti metropolitan politburos run by fruit loops who think anyone who dissents from their orthodoxy is a fruit loop. And the Morris was adopted not imposed without consent.

          Good to see you rattled though.

          • dalai guevara

            Rattled? The world is a big place, Colonel. You just let the Scots go (well done!), that does not mean I am going to lock myself in, just because some townie fruit loops think they know it all.

            Re: imposing without consent
            What is it that you consented to, Colonel? Czech beer brewing techniques, Tikka Masala, the introduction of the Christmas tree? Did you vote for that, did you consciously question? No Colonel, what you did is you followed. You adopted what everyone else was doing. You did not question, you followed, just like a Colonel follows what the General tells him to do.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Thanks for making my point for me. As I said, all those things were adopted, not imposed. The adoption was the consent. We can choose to enjoy them or not. No-one pompously affirmed “We are now a nation of Czech beer, or Tikka Masala, or Christmas trees” as they decided to flood the country with those things, deliberately, to rub the nose of their political opponents in them. The ideology of multi-culturalism, mass immigration and diversity was/is quite different and without consent.

              New Labour, mainly, decided that our culture would in future be one of many crammed into this island on equal terms with the indigenous islanders made to feel ashamed of their history, their culture and their flag. They are back-pedalling on that now the damage has been done. Their devolution for all nations except the English has curiously turned into the braying of “One Nation”.

              My outlook is fine, thank you, and shaped by my English culture, warts and all, which I’m not ashamed of and do not hate.

              • Jambo25

                Actually, Tikka Masala was, apparently, invented in Glasgow.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  Lama Che brought up his Tikka Masala, not I.

                • Jambo25

                  I’m not having a pop at you Colonel. I just think it’s one of those oddities that this originated somewhere along near Kelvinside. Apparently Glasgow punters liked take-away tandoori but thought it was a bit too dry so kept on asking for a sauce; so, eventually, some Indian restaurant in Glasgow experimented and came up with Tikka Masala

              • dalai guevara

                Yet you put up a Christmas Tree every year because your German King told you so. You consented to obey. Just like you consented to living in a terraced house, an invention for the upper classes, simplified and trickled down for your inferior needs. You obeyed.

                Others choose to have Chateaubriand whenever they like, or listen to Italian Baroque, Drum’n’Bass, Fado or just a plain saxophone, drink Belgian beers, not Boddingtons. They will not restrict themselves to studying English history, but world history. The popes of Avignon, Luther and the teachings of Confucius and Aristotle will be just as relevant to them as Henry 8 and Smith’s Adam. When they leave their homes on a weekend, they are likely to wear a garment called the Blue Jean, not Tweed, shopping in American-style malls, not with the nation of shopkeepers.

                Do you want to stop them? Go on, celebrate St George’s Day. Take to the streets, offer YOUR culture to the people.

                My culture is everyone’s culture, Colonel – and God is my witness: by choice.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  None of that is true – merely your subjective interpretation to try to make a point in the context of the modern political agenda you pursue. And to suggest a choice of “either or” is crass as well as limited.

                  But it confirms the superficiality and triviality of what you consider to be a global outlook. Before people like you invented yourselves and then invented a uniquely dreary but contrived mythology of their past the English enjoyed access to all those things, voluntarily, and appreciated them too. And one could do all that and still be patriotic, open, inquisitive and not self-hating.

                  The crux of the matter is that you hate the English, clearly revealed by your comment, but you have to dress that up in all sorts of bilge in order to peddle it as some kind of superior position. You are just a hater and an inverted bigot, plain and simple.

                • dalai guevara

                  No dear Colonel, sometimes you strike me as a character straight out of a Miss Marple episode (forget the murder, picture the setting). Are the shires green where you live? The air full of Magnolia scent and plum tree blossom, the anticipation of the Jasmine flowering soon a prospect avidly awaited?
                  Patriotism is mostly for mugs and does not deserve to occupy one level with being inquisitive, never mind open and not self-hating (*confidence* is the mean between self-deprecation and vanity, btw).

                  Patriotism has all too often led to ghastly misunderstandings in history, it is not a virtue in any classic sense, and I sense that the English are well aware of this – that is perhaps why we do not bother in the same way as perhaps others do. This is our strength, not a weakness.

            • vieuxceps2

              All these imported things we have in England,do you suppose that there’s a single nation on the planet that does not have some cultural or economic or social import from elsewhere?
              Every land has seen a good idea,sometimes even a bad idea ,and adopted it as their own.Even the French I believe. So why pick out England, we’ve done most of that in reverse.Check sport,check lierature,check science,check industry,check democracy,check muffins…..

        • UKSteve

          Iberian? Prove it.

          • dalai guevara

            The clue is -as always- in the name.
            This is not about the Morris Minor ;-), but about the Moresca.

            • UKSteve

              Clue?

              I asked because my surname is Morris, so I’m Spanish?

              Buenos tardes, Old Bean, by the way 🙂

              • dalai guevara

                BuenOs tardes? You sat in Buenas Aires right now? 😉

                • UKSteve

                  No. Hablo español.

                  And I think that’s Beunos…. 🙂

                • Wessex Man

                  Strange, this bloke dalai guevara was posting comments on here a couple of months ago about the English vomiting in the streets every night, living off the backs of the hardworking Scots and being the most drunken race on earth.

                  He’s it just a troll

                • UKSteve

                  I thought there was something odd…

                  He’s a bit of a baiter, isn’t he. Quite a master, too….

        • Barakzai

          ‘ . . . fully integrated multi-culturally and run without a fruit loop in sight.’ What a blissful Fabian picture you paint of our apparently delightful inner cities. Not even the perpetually whiny Harperson and the chip-shouldering Abbott would argue that this is reality.

          • dalai guevara

            Fabian? I prefer to use Faber Castell – the intensity and diversity in colour is superior to monochrome sketching with Welsh coal.

      • Fergus Pickering

        Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho

      • UKSteve

        telemachus: You obviously don’t understand, so I’ll explain it to you. In as short words as I can use.

        That they are Romanians & Bulgarians is mostly irrelevant (means ‘doesn’t matter’)

        Those are the 2 countries for which restriction (things that stop you from doing something) will be lifted. So they’ll have the same rights as other EU citizens (‘people’).

        The fact that 30,000 people arrested by Metropolitan police for crimes of theft, etc in the last 2 years were Romanian, may add relevance.

        Hope this helps.

        • telemachus

          When restrictions are lifted history dictates that those with the drive to come are those who can contribute drive intellect and energy to the drive for growth that we sorely need

          • UKSteve

            You are as imbecilic about history as you on other issues. Read a LOT more, and type less?

            We are the world’s 4th most densely populated country with 3 million immigrants from Europe in the last 6 years alone – we need absolutely no-one of any skillset. Closed borders for 5 years until we can sort out asylum / immigration chaos.

            • dalai guevara

              ‘we are the world’s 4th most densly populated country’

              you have clearly never left your borough to make a statement of such cretinous ignorance.

              • UKSteve

                And your head clearly has never left your ars3, or else you’d have understood the point.

                I acknowledge it’s actually 5th, if you strip out (which any sane, rational person would have) tiny Caribbean, Pacific and Indian Ocean islands and countries of very small populations, we’re 5th.

                Only a complete tw*t would compare island nations of 5,000 with a G7 country of 62 million.

                Read more….?

                • dalai guevara

                  India Bangladesh Belgium Holland Japan – just from the top of my head…
                  want more?

                • dalai guevara

                  It appears you do. South Korea, Taiwan, yes and splitting China into UK size small ‘island’ population chunks, metropolitan China.

                  In Britain, we do not live on top of each other, we live next to each other. There is no history of appartment living, only perhaps in the capital city that is no longer British and that Scottish place where people die at 53. Hardly Britain as a whole, is it?

                  So to summarize, more than half the planet live in more dense living conditions than we do in the UK. Gee whiz.

          • Dogsnob

            History dictates nothing of the sort. Cheap air travel dictates that criminals will look on UK welfare inc. as worth a punt.

  • Bert3000

    The ‘I got born English, so I deserve a free ride in life’ attitude of UKIP’s supporters is not patriotism.

    • James

      I think you will find those to be Labour or ex-Labour now BNP.

      • telemachus

        You mention the only party that is inclusive and more, dynamic outward looking, not turning in on ourselves
        I despair of you James

        • Andy

          You joined the BNP ?

          • telemachus

            No the BNP merged into UKIP

            • Andy

              But the BNP are Socialists. You’ll be at home there.

        • James

          I’d be more concerned about what happened to your brain if I were you.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Which is a very offensive misrepresentation of both the patriotism and the concerns.

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