Coffee House

No-one does anti-politics stand-up like Nigel Farage. But what about that tax policy?

23 April 2013

4:08 PM

23 April 2013

4:08 PM

Nigel Farage joined lobby journalists in Parliament for lunch today. Like many of his hustings, it was a box office event, and indeed like many of those campaign trail appearances, he made plenty of the same jokes that those who follow him about have heard many times before such as the one about being married to a foreigner, and about the problem with the Westminster bubble:

‘They look the same, they sound the same, God! They’re dull! I mean, they are not much fun to be with.’

Farage, of course, is fun to be with. He was sporting a red rose for St George’s Day, and decided to regale journalists at the start of his speech by saying that his press officer tried to reassure him after his News of the World gotcha by saying that the story could have been worse: ‘He said, well, at least she said you were hung like a donkey and did it seven times! Which I have to say, isn’t true on either account.’ Later, he said he had only been once to a lap-dancing club once ‘to my knowledge’ and with a ‘former French presidential candidate’ when in Strasbourg, while endorsing a UKIP candidate who runs a lap-dancing club as a free-market entrepreneur.

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He took some great pot shots at the Tories, calling David Cameron a ‘social democrat’ several times, arguing that ‘we are the true heirs to Thatcher’ on European affairs. And apparently a young Thatcher leaving university today would join UKIP, not the Conservatives. He also mused about whether Boris Johnson or Michael Gove would be a better Conservative leader, dismissing Boris as ‘the great pretender, but history shows they very rarely win’.

Yes, this was a fun lunch with one of the best raconteurs in the game. And the sketchwriters made reams of notes on Farage’s speech and his question and answer session with journalists afterwards.

But this sort of wonderful colour comes at the expense of anything really impressive on the policy front, even though he insisted that UKIP had broadened its appeal in recent years. At one stage he admitted that the party’s tax policy ‘is incomplete, it needs more work’. Everyone chuckled, and this underlined what it is that Farage sees as important to the UKIP brand. It’s not that the party supports a flat tax that many respected thinkers on the right also favour. It’s not that it has policies (or ‘aspirations’) that might appeal to other groups, such as protecting the green belt (its 2013 local manifesto cites this as the second of its ‘common-sense policies’, below ‘tax should be as low as possible). Yes these ‘aspirations’ are important for the UKIP campaign on the doorstep, along with its motherhood-and-apple pie pledge for ‘cutting council executives and managers, not front-line services’. But what Farage wants to invest in, rather than setting out detailed policies that demand scrutiny, is the anti-politics, we’re-not-like-them message that appeals to a broader section of the electorate than simply frustrated Conservative voters. Even the lap dancing club tales were aimed at projecting a refreshing anti-politics image. Did we learn much from his appearance at lunch? No. But most of us watching probably wished that characters like him turned up in the press gallery canteen more often.

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Show comments
  • http://www.facebook.com/barbara.stevens.790 Barbara Stevens

    You can leave the EU and still be in a single market. That’s what we signed up for but we got dicatorship. Farage is no fool, he knows, well that Germany has to sell its goods as we do, as do other states; we are all eager to sell goods and being out would not mean we wouldn’t sell them. It would mean we would be free to sell where ever we wished which we are not a the moment. I’m sick of all the laws, rules and silly regime they are trying to make us adhere to, it’s time we all showed our dislike and vote for Farage and freedom. He’s got my vote.

  • Bill Brinsmead

    From my reading of Isabel’s piece I see someone with saloon bar manners,
    a 19th hole philosophy and an implicit fascist or at least corporatist outlook [remember he has declared all other parties bar UKIP to be inauthentic]. That said an entertaining loony so all is forgiven.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Julian-Price/653286113 David Julian Price

    It wouldn’t matter if Farage was the most boring man imaginable, like Miliband and Cameron squared – the point is that the UK has to leave the EU, so it can start trading with the rest of the world and not just with an impoverished, declining customs union where it is not allowed to trade beyond its confines. We need to trade our way out of the rut we’re in, and right now the EU is stopping us…

    • HookesLaw

      The UK does trade with the rest of the world. So does for instance Germany.
      How does the EU stop us trading?

      On 23 March the EU started talks on a free trade agreement with Japan.
      The EU is in the middle of a free trade agreement with India.
      A comprehensive economic and trade agreement is being brokered with Canada.
      On 12 March 2013 the EU started procedudes for a ‘Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership’ with the United States.
      the list is endless.

      You think ‘free trade’ is just a click of the fingers? Take a look at free trade agreements – they are complex.
      You think little UK can strike better deals than the whole of Europe combined?
      Maybe it can … but any difference is marginal. And of course maybe it could not.
      And it would have to negotiate a deal with the EU. And of course doing that would mean being in the single market like Norway and paying into EU funds.
      ie no real difference at all.

      As ever you and UKIP loons ignore the realities of the world and prefer to live in fantasies.

  • alabenn

    What will happen if UKIP make inroads into both lab/con parties, will any of the current MPs defect, will both parties discover a new found zest for taking notice of voters, will it change anything.
    There is only one way to find out, vote for them and you might learn something.

  • thanksdellingpole

    I’ve got to say Gove is pissing me off with this 600 immigrant private school thing in the English countryside!

    • HookesLaw

      Ah back to race again – what a surprise.

      • thanksdellingpole

        That’s right, England is a race of Caucasians and has been for thousands of years, until about 60 odd years ago, with moves like this one Goves pulling.

  • andagain

    So he has no idea how to run the country, but he says it in an entertaining way?

    If it is true that democracy is a way of giving the people the government they deserve, I suppose he will win.

  • OffPiste

    Nothing stirs my politics more than a middle-aged man in a Barbour and an Argyle sweater. Oh Nigel, whisper gently in my ear your views on the Lisbon Treaty, you devil.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      I think brother Nige has an image consultant working on that working class look. That argyle is a stretched and worn hand-me-down, and it may be older than he is. And that button down shirt he’s wearing under the argyle has surely never touched an ironing board. I think Nige is going for the Rodney Dangerfield look.

  • telemachus

    UKIP is the last hope for the dying breed of real Englishmen and women. And those of us on the left in the three main parties are well aware of that. I think it is all too late, but some of my contacts in the senior ranks of the Labour Party are still afraid that it might not be.

    Of course it will be said that you vote UKIP and get Labour, but those of us engaged in politics know that a vote for any of the three main parties will produce a socialist government. This is the great success of the Common Purpose revolution.

    The residual fear among some of my comrades in the Labour and Conservative pseudo-Parties is that you vote UKIP and get Labour, then you vote UKIP and get Labour, and then you vote UKIP and get UKIP.

    Those with principles will vote according to them, however touchingly useless such principles are. Those interested in power and wealth and influence have long abandoned principles. UKIP is perhaps the last opportunity for principle to oppose political pragmatism. I think it too late. But there are senior contacts in the main parties who have made it clear that UKIP is still considered enough of a threat to the revolution to require some PR activity, although nothing will be done of course.

    • tele_machus

      Although perhaps half correct, this is not tele

      • Wessex Man

        I’d pay to see you two in a boxing ring, problem being I supose is that it would be shadow boxing!

    • Russell

      many of the slightly brighter labour voters will support UKIP in both 2014 and 2015, and no doubt cause the removal of some labour MEP’s and MP’s as well as Tory MEP’s and MP’s. The only party they won’t damage is the LIbDems, but their share of the vote is smaller than UKIP no anyway according to all polls..

      • ButcombeMan

        In my local, ex LibDems are talking the UKIP talk. I cannot say yet, they will walk the walk. The Council elections may tell us. Not all Libdems (curiously ) are in love with the EU.

        They are as pissed off with Clegg as i am with Cameron & Boy George

        • HookesLaw

          pissed off with Clegg for not being left wing enough and so are going to vote right wing extremist?
          Really?

    • HookesLaw

      ‘a vote for any of the three main parties will produce a socialist government.’ — Utter cobblers of course but you have to say that to justify your fantasy.
      The fact that you have to lie shows the paucity of your ideal.

    • ButcombeMan

      “you vote UKIP and get Labour, then you vote UKIP and get Labour, and then you vote UKIP and get UKIP.”

      Yes, exactly my view.. We will vote UKIP and get Labour and Balls will mess up again and his replacement will mess up again and Britain will be on its knees BUT, I am voting UKIP for my great great grandchildren.

      • HookesLaw

        Who is saying the government have messed up anything? It is faced with an intractable economic situation which it inherited. During a difficult year jobs have risen and unemployment fallen.
        Plus various entrenched establishments have been taken on and reformed. The previous govt only existed on the back of a housing bubble and spending of its own which increased the debt by nearly 50% – the country cannot overcome that with a click of the fingers no matter what any self serving populist ranter says.

        Vote UKIP in any serious numbers and you give the country back to labour. your notion about ‘grandchildren’ is fatuous.

  • Austin Barry

    This week’s neologism:

    Farage:

    verb. To cause bowel-loosening anxiety to members of the Con/LibDem/Lab/EU conspiracy.

    synonym: Eastleigh: noun.

  • 700islands

    The problem in British politics is one of stance. For people to feel invested in democracy it has to be both accountable and responsible. Westminster is accountable to the people, and the UK has a robust electoral process and free press (at least for now). The problem comes with the responsibility side of the equation. Truman said “the buck stops here.” That is not true for our elected leaders. Too much responsibility has been shuffled off either downward to quangos or over to Brussels. In both instances decisions and policy are now made by the unelected, those beyond accountability. This undermines the democratic framework and leaves people feeling alienated. The three established political parties seem content to work and argue within this framework. UKIP’s appeal is partly based upon its challenge to this framework. UKIP has a different stance. It may not have its policies worked out, but then, honestly, goes Osbourn have his policy worked out? Does Ed Balls? No. But no expects UKIP to form the next Government. What they do feel is that it is an authentic voice of opposition that is going mainstream and should be heard and counted. If their discomfort is anything to go by the established parties are starting to agree. Each year more and more decision making power passes from Westminster to quangos and Brussels and Westminster becomes more and more window-dressing. To be against this is not “anti-politics”, its actually “pro-politics”, or certainly pro-democracy.

    • tele_machus

      Does Ed Balls?
      James Forsyth wrote
      On the economy, … Ed Balls . He promised to spend money now, saying he’d put the as… proceeds from sale of the 4G spectrum into house-building. But to be austere later, reiterating that he couldn’t commit to reversing particular tax rises or spending cuts and that all the proceeds of the sale of the state’s bank shares would go to paying down the national debt. The later commitments are far more significant as they would actually affect what a post-2015 Labour government would do.

      • Russell

        What neither Balls or obviously you don’t understand is that the money from the sale of 4G and money from the BoE had to be used to pay for government borrowing to pay public sector workers etc.

        • telemachus

          this pseudo-telemachus spouts a weak brew of bilge water. he constantly tries to troll in my name. in fact Ed Balls is the least capable of the movers and shakers who are bringing in the Common Purpose order of things. only an idiot, and someone outside of the real corridors of power would latch on Balls as a hero. And this exposes pseudo-telemachus as not being serious at all. A troll in fact.

          The real socialist agenda has always been worked out behind the scenes by people that most of you don’t even know the name of. And so it advances. Twits like pseudo-telemachus are not even worth shoving up against the wall when the revolution reveals itself.

          You can tell this is the real telemachus by the use of this code.

          E37

    • ButcombeMan

      Good post. exactly

  • the viceroy’s gin

    Well, similar to Millipede, Farage isn’t as politically dumb as Dave and the Cameroons. Farage knows there’s no need to get in the way, when your opposition is busy destroying himself.

    Nobody’s attacking the Cameroons, they’re just standing aside and watching them flail. Heck, that’s why the Cameroons are having you bubble denizens jabber about them being on the attack right now. They want some conflict, as even that’s a better messaging than their own acknowledged failure, and that failure’s deconstruction.

  • foxoles

    The only party which is determined to keep the lights on – the only party with a sensible energy policy – the only party addressing the impending electricity shortfall – not really impressive’ on the policy front?

    http://ukip.org/media/policies/energy.pdf

    • tele_machus

      I am yet to discover any policies
      As of course opposed to the gut feelings of UKIP which can be summed up as “Put the Barriers Up”

      • Nicholas chuzzlewit

        Yes it reminds me of Red Milliband: oppose everything, propose nothing.

        • tele_machus

          Propose
          Proposals in abundance
          Invest for growth
          Take a Leadership role in Europe
          Utilise effectively the new Labour pool next January
          Get somme dynamiism charisma and joy back into our country

          • telemachus

            UKIP is the last chance and the last blast of the old guard. Make it count or be prepared to be swept away.

            Ignore the bogus tele_machus who spouts nonsense and pretends to be a disciple of Ed Balls. Ed Balls for goodness sake! Pick a real socialist if you are going troll.

            You can tell this is the real telemachus, though for security reasons I have to keep changing my account. But I am the one using the security code..

            E37

            • Guest

              .

          • fubarroso

            Dynamism – You must be thinking of that dynamic Ed Miliband? Charisma? – Miliband again. Joy? – Definitely Ed Balls. NOT!

      • foxoles

        There are pages and pages of them here – how come you can’t ‘discover’ them?

        http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies

        • HookesLaw

          Motherhood and apple pie.

          • foxoles

            No thanks.

            • HookesLaw

              Its all you are being offered.

        • JabbaTheCat

          “There are pages and pages of them here…”

          That is a mishmash of discontinuous verbiage that doesn’t even come close to an election manifesto…

          • HookesLaw

            Yes remarks like – ‘The following is a suggested Tax Proposal, not a party policy, from UKIP’s Godfrey Bloom MEP.’

            Its immigration policy – well it does not exist yet either.

            Its health policy is one of ‘elected county health boards’ – how will that work? In so far that this govt have already reformed the NHS and brought in GP led Commissioning Boards – well does anybody really thing this policy would be worth the upheaval – even if it was workable?

            Does anyone contemplating voting UKIP even think about these policies?

            • fubarroso

              No I wouldn’t expect you to go for UKIPs NHS policy. Elected county health boards? Elected? Whatever next? No that wouldn’t do at all that would give the plebs a say in how their money is spent. Awful! Awful!

  • http://twitter.com/rayveysey Ray Veysey

    The French elected Hollande solely on the basis that he wasn’t Sarkozy, they knew it would probably not be the best arrangement, and they are now finding out how bad it could be, but they have got rid of Sarkozy, shame they didn’t have a Farage.
    UKIP are not Labour or Conservative. people know it may not be perfect and there will be some areas that may be questionable, occasionally requiring slight adjustment, testing and tuning, they will be new, bedding in must be allowed time. But, but they are not Labour or Conservative, and they all know what to expect from them. More lies, more broken promises, and more Europe. Vote UKIP and try a new direction.

    • HookesLaw

      Vote UKIP and get a Europhile labour. I suppose it suits a UKIP apologist to ignore the fact that there will soon be a referendum on the EU – if we have a conservative govt and not a tory one..

      • Wessex Man

        Oh Hooky you are so so desperate, why won’t anyone take any notice of you anymore-because they’ve heard it all before ad nauseam!

        • Austin Barry

          Oh, I don’t know. Any post by Hookey in furious, sneering response to one of mine usually means I’m on the right track.

          • HookesLaw

            You are the hysteric – the nasty one at that.

            • telemachus

              It doesn’t matter who people vote for, as HooeksLaw well knows. He has his own reasons for adopting the persona he has. Vote anyone and get Common Purpose. Does it matter? Not any more. UKIP is the last gasp and the last chance. Principles or politics?

              This is the real telemachus

              E37

              • dalai guevara

                real? you are kidding no one, matey.

            • Austin Barry

              There; Hookey has proven it again. Well done, Hookey, like a fish to the bait.

        • HookesLaw

          We have heard about Farrage ad nauseam and the fact that being out of the EU will be little different from being in it does not go away because you refuse to acknowledge it.

          But deary me we must not examine and say anything unhelpful about dear Mr Farage must we – ? The new religion must be allowed to preach unmolested.

          Someone points out how St Hollande and all his wishfull thinking did not withstand the first whiff of grapeshot but oh dear me we must not expose the fantasy at the heart of UKIPs message.

          • Fergus Pickering

            If being out of the EU will be little different why not be outa nd get rid of all those MEPs and a lot of te money we pay? We get no bang at all for a considerable amount of bucks.

        • ButcombeMan

          My reading of the situation is that people are not prepared to be blackmailed any more.

          Hookey is probably right but people have stopped listening

        • dalai guevara

          Wessex Man, the thing is: in a country averse to proportional representation, that is precisely the truth we are facing.

          With the current British voting system, ‘change’ is an explicit impossibility by design. Should have listened to what Clegg had to say, now you have got to live with your short-term long-term outlook.

          • Wessex Man

            Should have listened to Clegg, Clegg are you mad? do you know nothing about Clegg? or Hunhe or Laws or Cable? are you mad?

            • dalai guevara

              No, not mad – I was merely making the point that if you oppose PR, then you m u s t live with the ‘vote UKIP get Labour’ reality of the real world.
              ‘Cause if you are not prepared for the reality of the real world, you might do just that: go mad yourself.

              • Wessex Man

                As in the Italian Job with a comedian’s party holding the balance of power and refusing to talk to anyone, that’s a real world I want no part of!

                • dalai guevara

                  This is of course the classic ‘excuse’. Italy. What you need to ask yourself is this: who else a part from say Nigeria and Zimbabwe still run a FPTP system?

      • Chris lancashire

        Completely accurate but I doubt that your sane view will gain much traction on this article. Vote UKIP get Labour.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Sadly, I think we shall have to.

          • ButcombeMan

            Colonel I agree.

            50 years of supporting the Tories for me-done for by Cameron, his sheer incompetence and his deceit.

            • dalai guevara

              Have you all lost your minds now? Are you all scared DC might finally h a v e t o give you that referendum that will finish these tedious and neverending discussions once and for all? Are you wetting your pants you might lose? We have got to see this through now – of course ‘vote UKIP get Labour’ will not allow you to do that.

              This will not be the end of Britain. Such a thing could only (ever) be instigated from within.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                …which is why you fascists anxiously clamor for unfettered immigration.

                • dalai guevara

                  the only unfettered thing here is your trollery

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  You fascists never like being confronted, too.

                • HookesLaw

                  I do not know about Labour or Liberals but the Conservative policy is not one of unfettered immigration.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  So like their silence re all the spending madness and debt accumulation over the years, which the Cameroons did and said nothing about, they’re to be forgiven re their silence over unfettered immigration.

                  Gotcha.

              • Wessex Man

                That’s right in 18 months time the only other party leader who has a spine will lead Scotland out of the Union!

      • http://twitter.com/kingkeyworth Dave King

        Vote Ukip and get a referendum any other and you won’t. If you don’t vote for what you want you won’t get it

        • HookesLaw

          There will be a referendum because there is to be a new fiscal union treaty for the Eurozone and that will be used as a basis for new negotiations.
          Its a fact. There is as Osborne has said a “remorseless logic” for a banking and fiscal union in the eurozone. But he also said, there was “no way” Britain would be part of that union.
          The other fact is that any new treaty must by law (a law created by Conservatives) be passed by a referendum.

          But see what you just did? You stood the fact on their head, you ignored them, you lied about the. You had to to justify your support for UKIP.
          The fact that you have to do that tells us all we need to know about apologists for UKIP.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Is this a cast iron guarantee or is it more of a “this is not a treaty” (as in “this is not a constitution”) moment?

            • HookesLaw

              Stop twisting the truth. The regulations are cast in law. Any transfer of power will trigger a referendum. All UKIP will do if successful and you let them is to put the interpretation or the repeal into the hands of a Labour govt.
              The Lisbon treaty was ratified and signed before Cameron became PM. So stop pretending over the cast iron guarantee. The fact that you have to lie about it shows how weak your arguments are.

              • telemachus

                You really are a buffon HookesLaw. I don’t know if you believe what you say, which is sad. Or are just paid to spout it. Which is reasonable.

                But if you have not understood yet that the three main parties are all socialist, and that this is the great success story of our times, then you are saddest of all. Your commitment to one of the three main parties, as if it made any difference whatsoever, is touching, if it is real.

                This is the real telemachus.

                E37

                • Andy

                  Liar ! And I claim my £10.

              • ButcombeMan

                I repeat, blackmail no longer works. it might if we had a true Conservative leader, we do not have one so it will not..

                We have a Common Purpose clone.

              • Colonel Mustard

                No, I’m not lying about it. Cameron gave the guarantee in those terms, not I, and he knew the score. He knew he was promising something that at least should have been qualified, at worst that he was unable to guarantee at all. The words he chose to use to entice did not reflect the reality. Whose fault is that? Not mine.

                And where were the Conservative howls of protest when the socialist ogre Brown slithered into Lisbon like a thief in the night to sign away our sovereignty in direct contravention of our 1689 Bill of Rights?

                So it should be no surprise to you of all people when I, a staunch conservative voter all my life, should pause and wonder whether another promise is to be believed from a man who promised to sweep away New Labour’s nanny state and is now embarked on a legislative programme to enhance and extend it.

          • Russell

            A referendum on whether or not to accept this ‘new’ Treaty would not necessarily have an out option, just a yes or no to the new Treaty! These pro EU weasels will stop at nothing to prevent the British people having an option to leave their ‘lucrative jobs for the boys’ and continued troughing at our expense.

            • HookesLaw

              So again to defend your untenable position you launch off into the realms of fantasy.
              http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/22/eu-referendum-2017-david-cameron
              ‘David Cameron will on Wednesday set a deadline to hold an in-out referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union by the end of 2017 as he hardens his position on the issue that has bedevilled Tory leaders for a quarter of a century.’

              Of course being OUT is in any case not much different to being IN, so for myself I am not fussed about being OUT if the result of negotiations are not satisfactory. We will be like Norway and abide by the single market rules But the results need to be seen before there is a point to a vote. And putting Labour in power before hand hardly seems clever to me.

              UKIP are hysteric about this and have to live in fantasy land because it undermines its alleged reason for existence. As of now it is becoming more an umbrella for extremists.

          • Wessex Man

            Are you mad, I’ve often wondered, what your hero Call me Dave is promising is if I get relected in 2015, if I get a majority, if I can negotiate with the EU, who have already said they will not, you may get the chance to vote in a referendum provided I don’t forget to call one like I did last time!

          • http://www.facebook.com/barbara.stevens.790 Barbara Stevens

            All true, if the Conservatives win, what if they don’t, what then for this nation.? We cannot risk our freedom on a whim of one man, Cameron. Farage says it as it is, Cameron makes promises he knows he may not deliver, he’s `10 pts below Labour unfortunately. Labour promise things they cannot deliver, in fact they all tell porkies, Farage does not.

        • http://twitter.com/Shinsei1967 Nick Reid

          Vote UKIP and you let Labour in.

          I really don’t see what is so difficult to grasp about this. You can huff and puff as much as you like but it won’t change the electoral maths.

          Nose. Face. Spite.

          • Wessex Man

            oh dear.

          • blingmun

            Perhaps we believe that by huffing and puffing we may indeed change the electoral maths. That’s what democracy is all about, huffing and puffing so in time you can persuade other people to your own point of view.

            As for letting Labour in. I am an ex-Conservative voter and as far as I am concerned we presently do have Labour in. Just wearing blue rosettes.

      • Russell

        A government who will campaign to stay in the rotten, corrupt cesspit of politicians in the EU!
        Vote UKIP., the only way to ensure withdrawal from the EU.

        • HookesLaw

          And stay in the single market and still pay into EU funds and still have the EU on our doorstep making rules and legislating without any influence from us.
          Such a difference is marginal. It would at least do Farage out of a job.

          • Russell

            Not stay in ‘the Single Market’ . The Uk can decide its own markets, and if we wish to trade with the EU, and if they wish to trade with us, then it will not cost the UK any ‘paying into EU funds’
            The EU would and should not make any rules or legislation for the people of the UK, that is a job for the politicians we elect to the House of Parliament.
            Vote UKIP.

            • Andy

              Of course the EU would have to abide by our rules if they want access to our markets. Perhaps we should make them pay into our ‘regional funds’.

              • Russell

                And definitely no rebates!

          • Andy

            Does the United States ‘pay into EU funds’ ?????

            • the viceroy’s gin

              The Fed has maintained an open window for all the EU banks, and the ECB, and supplied them with plenty of cheap credit, as well as many of their larger companies a few years ago, and perhaps still. So in effect, the US does support the EU, indirectly.

      • http://twitter.com/rayveysey Ray Veysey

        I do not apologise for UKIP, you should be apologising for whichever of the liblabcon failed parties you “represent”, Soon ? it is 4 years away at the moment, thats assuming the conservatives get re-elected, and assuming the liar Cameron keeps his word, and assuming that, in the end we will only get a rigged question anyway. All of which adds up to as much political uncertainty as voting for UKIP, but UKIP will takes us out. Thats when the real work will start.

      • http://twitter.com/ianwalkeruk Ian Walker

        Is that a cast iron guarantee?

    • Simon Semere

      Vote UKIP but don’t look at Nigel Farage head on, you may change your mind!

      • tele_machus

        Is that a frog comment?

      • MirthaTidville

        So I take it you would rather have more of the same liblabcon then??…a lot of us are very sick of them however and although we have reservations about Farage he`s worth a punt at this point in what passes for the political cycle..no more no less

        • Simon Semere

          He has good policies and yes he is certainly different, I just can’t stand the man, I tried to like him, I can’t.

    • disqus_LDZYEl6zwG

      UKIP are just 1980s Tory Party, ignorant,racist and hiding behind civil liberties when being the real tasty party

      • The Sage

        I see David Cameron is now posting here. Welcome, my social democratic friend.

        • HookesLaw

          Sadly there is an increasingly racist edge to UKIP.

          • telemachus

            Lol. HookesLaw knows that the real racism is always found in the socialism of the three main parties. And it must be so because the socialist future we all want requires a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic population with no great attachment to any particular country.

            350,000 Romanians and Bulgarians heading for the UK. Of course this is racist. But our agenda requires the dilution of the English people. We have succeeded in making it seem racist to object to the racist policies we are implementing. But nothing will be done. The great British people are too supine.

            HookesLaw knows this, but he plays his own part well. Either wittingly or unwittingly.

            This is the real telemachus.

            E37

            • HookesLaw

              350000 Romanians and Bulgarians are not heading for the UK. The present Conservative Party is not of course a socialist party.

              You have to lie to justify your fantasy. Such huge lies reveal your huge fantasy.

              UKIP can only exist by peddling fantasy

              • The_Missing_Think

                Sure… and only “13,000” Polish turned up?

                Get real dreamer.

                • HookesLaw

                  I for one never said only 13000. You are the one committing to an exaggerated figure.

                • The_Missing_Think

                  Not exaggerated, documented.

                  “… in 2004, the Home Office, Britain’s interior ministry, predicted that between 5,000 and 13,000 Poles would come to Britain every year. Within two years 264,560 had arrived.”

                  http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/01/eu-and-immigration
                  _____

                  You’re placing more faith in a poll that could be wrong, rather than reality based indicators that happened.

                  That’s a risky strategy, a risk people don’t want, including a bill moving Tory MP, Stewart Jackson. Read the link.

                  “We don’t want to make the same mistake that we made in 2004, which was to import a very large number of low-wage, low-skill workers and embed welfare dependency in our indigenous workforce,”

          • ButcombeMan

            Melodramatic rubbish.

  • HookesLaw

    Fun? Self serving rubbish more like.

    A massive loss of public sector jobs is just one example of showing why cameron is not a social democrat.
    Perhaps you should invite Ken Dodd to your next meeting.

    • dominiccarman

      Ken Dodd may not have had much grasp of taxation and tax law, but he does have a surprisingly acute political brain. He once quoted Clemencau to me: ‘If a man is not a socialist at twenty, he does not have a heart; if he is still a socialist at forty, he does not have a brain’.

      • HookesLaw

        A well known Churchill aphorism, but it may not be true.
        In fact this quote was first uttered by mid-nineteenth century French historian and statesman François Guizot when he said, ‘Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of
        head.’
        The sentiment is of course true.

        • Daniel Maris

          I liked the response of the Abbe Sieyes (Spelling?) to the question “What did you do in the French Revolution?”

          “I survived.”

    • The Sage

      A massive loss of public sector jobs is exactly what’s needed. Unfortunately, the loss is not yet nearly big enough.
      What did happen to those over-worked diversity officers on £80,000 a year, the five-a-day co-ordinators, the gender awareness outreach workers and the like, that every public sector organisation was hiring in the noughties? Are they still in place with their final-salary pensions waiting down the track? Perhaps we should be told.

      • ButcombeMan

        Most of them are because Cameron & Osborne are piss poor.

        If you want fantasy jobs, check out the BBC.

        • HookesLaw

          The BBC is cutting jobs and making savings of 20% in its budget.
          The BBC could be closed down for all I care but that facts are it is shedding jobs and making savings.

      • HookesLaw

        yes you will like to see public sector jobs go until they affect the service you get.

        As it is
        http://www.publicsectorexecutive.com/Public-Sector-News/12-million-job-cuts-expected-in-public-sector–ifs

        ‘1.2 million job cuts expected in public sector’
        ‘Between 2010 and 2012, the number of people employed in the public sector fell by 300,000, or 5% of the overall workforce.’

        So in fact the govt is doing what you want. But still you rant on in your thick ignorant hysteria.
        During this time of loss of public jobs the numbers in employment have actually gone up.
        We are told there is no growth — and as such pressure mounts on the govt from hysterics like you
        But if 300,000 jobs have gone but employment in total has gone up – how can we seriously be in a recession?

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