Coffee House

David Cameron tells Tory Spring conference: Our battle is with “socialist” Labour

16 March 2013

12:43 PM

16 March 2013

12:43 PM

The Tories know that if the next election is a referendum on the current government, it’ll be very difficult for them to win. But if it is a choice between them and a Labour government, then they are in with a good chance.

David Cameron’s speech to his party’s Spring Forum today ends with a list of what a Labour government would do in its first 100 days in office. It shows how keen the Tories are to frame the next election as a choice, not a referendum, that Cameron is prepared to publicly contemplate defeat to do this. Interestingly, there’s no mnetion of the Liberal Democrats or the coalition in the speech. He says:-

Anyone in this party who’s in any doubt who we should be fighting, what we should be debating, where our energies should be focused – I tell you: our battle is with Labour. This is a bunch of self-satisfied Labour socialists who think they can spend your money better than you can, make decisions better than you can and tell you what to do, and we should never, ever let that lot near government again.

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The other striking thing about the speech is that it is a return to the ‘aspiration nation’ and ‘global race’ themes of Cameron’s conference speech. I understand that these will be the focuses of the Budget too. This suggests that the Tory leadership is now determined to make these their principal messages all the way to 2015.

UPDATE: Video extracts from Cameron’s speech can be found here.


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Show comments
  • Bigliam morgaan

    @PhiKean Your a millionaire Phil are you worrying that a Labour government will put the 45p tax rate back up to 50p if your not a millionaire what are you moaning at because it won’t effect you .

  • Bigliam morgaan

    The Tories are making it kind of easy I think for the Communist party to start to get a foothold in the uk or the BNP !

  • margaret benjamin

    The problem is not labour David Cameron take a look in the mirror and their lies the answer.

  • John Zorn

    hhhhh

  • liamsmith

    Sorry, but Cameron’s message is absolutely hypocritical.

    It has been the Conservative party who have always believed that they can spend your money better than you can. They only feed their egotistical approach to the economy, that they ‘play mother’ and make your decisions for you, and which inevitably make things worse for you.

    Look at the recent changes that the Conservatives want (Or, did want. They make so many U-Turns that you can never assume what they want). The changes merely say ‘Ok people, we know its better than you don’t spend money on alcohol, and those of you who are working class should definitly not be doing it’. While there would be health benefits, its ultimately one way which dictates, from the government, on how people should spend their money. Same thing with the ‘Pasty’ Tax, or raising VAT. They control the mass populace and how they spend it by raising or lowering the taxes on things.

  • paulus

    Well stop acting like one, we will roll them up at the next election, but stop shooting yourself in the foot

    • John Zorn

      You wont even roll a cigarette at the next.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ariadne.jones.5 Ariadne Jones

    Problem is the Tories give all of our money to billionaires. mean they are ust set to get another 100, 000 each per year. No austerity for them then – http://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/we-are-raising-more-money-for-the-rich-an-analysis/

    • Democritus

      The poor millionaires have suffered dreadfully. I even heard one had to sell a Ferrari recently just to make ends meet. The peasants just don’t understand!
      That £100,000 each year will boost the economy as they will be able to employ an extra servant or buy extra nibbles for cocktail parties or such like. I think poor people are just being nasty and horrible. So they complain about the bedroom tax? well don’t they all sleep in the same bed? why do they need more than one room? I suppose cooking should have a separate room and an outdoor lav, But a bathroom? Whatever for, they never wash!………

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

        Get real. High earners have high debts and big mortgages. QE has given them a huge NETT pay boost

  • Daniel Maris

    I don’t think this “aspiration”/”global race” nonsense is going to go down well. The aspiration stuff is for when things are going well or when there is a clear route to the future. We are stuck in the mire – and people know it. They are also sense Osborne hasn’t got a clue how to get us out of it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.macdonald.146 Chris Macdonald

    Scotland doesn’t want either. ONE Tory MP in Scotland, nuff said. Nationalism flying high.. Buh-bye :)

  • David Lindsay

    There is a party called Socialist Labour. Does Cameron regard it as the main threat to his own? They are on course to get about as many votes as each other, so perhaps so – http://www.socialist-labour-party.org.uk/

  • margaret benjamin

    David Cameron will have plenty of time to repent for he will not get in again.The man is arrogant and a waste of tax payers money

  • alabenn

    He has a couple of years to turn this around, most voters have the attention span of goldfish, just look at the morons who have gone back to Labour.

    What he has to do is start calling Labour and the BBC out on each and every distortion they propagate the minute they commit them.

    He should start to get hold of his own side, these supposed Tory MPs who are voting with Labour on Leveson tomorrow should be warned they will lose the whip.

    He should also forget about tags like the nasty party and toxic Tories, this is just so much crap, most people just want competence, they have had enough of lets be nice to everybody, no one believes him and it just does not get things done.

    • Russell

      In addition to calling the BBC and Labour out for every distortion and/or straight lies, Tory MP’s or Ministers need to be available to respond on air to scurrilous BBC (and even Sky) news stories which labour have the smug Leslie or some other reprobate responding to, and whose lies currently go unchallenged.

      • anyfool

        Could not agree more, they let blatant lies go unchallenged, they seem to be incapable of thinking on their feet, it really is pathetic sometimes, Gove seems to be the only one who takes no prisoners.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ariadne.jones.5 Ariadne Jones

        Ha ha ha ! Chris Patten the Communist…ha ha ha!! You have an authoritarian government in power that manipulates the media and you think Labour and the beeb are the problem?? Ha ha ha! – http://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/the-blame-game/

    • Daniel Maris

      Yep, that’s a good way to get voters back. Start by calling them morons.

      • alabenn

        Well i did call them morons, and yes i do think that.
        By what stretch of your imagination do you get from me making a personal statement on this post, to the Tory Party calling them morons in their statements/manifesto.
        I am not a party member.
        Usually it is Labour people who put false meaning to what anyone else has to say, i could be wrong on that, who knows

        • Democritus

          Because your a Tory? If the rank and file supporters behave in that way how does that reflect on your party? I love it when Tory supporters come out with such idiocy, they automatically push people away from any idea of voting Tory. Keep up the good work!

          • alabenn

            Because your a Tory.

            What a pathetic line, how deep in thought were you to come up with that cutting edge put down.

            • Democritus

              Is that all you took from my post? Now that is pathetic.

        • John Zorn

          You don’t.

          • alabenn

            John Zorn, i doubt you are the composer.
            You can hardly string two words together never mind a song or melody.

        • Wessex Man

          You called voters morons and by doing so showed yourself to be a perfect possible candidate for Labour, Tory or Lib/Dems in the 2014 elections. I normally find people who use such terms to be a little mentally deficient themselves and perfect possible Westminster fodder.

          • alabenn

            Well let us think, someone ruins a very good business they took over, 13 years later they have completely wrecked said business.
            The people who built successful business try to put the business back on track, not apparently doing so well after 2 years +, people now say lets get the people who ruined the business in the first place to put it right.
            Would you not call it moronic.

            • Democritus

              “The people who built successful business”

              We had 18 years of high unemployment and high debt, 13 years of low unemployment and low debt (except in 2008 when there was a world banking crash) now we’re back to high unemployment and growing debt. I wouldn’t call that a success and neither did the voters in 2010 because they never elected a Tory government.

    • John Zorn

      Those ‘morons’ are being shafted by Gideon.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

      If he wants to deal with the BBC simply stop using Criminal Law against those without a TV Licence

      • alabenn

        Yes that should be easy enough for someone with the will.

        Not one MP appears to have any conscience on this matter as it is usually poor women who eventually ended up in jail in due course because of this., due to being unable to pay the up to £1000 fines.

        Capita in collusion with TV Licensing issue thousands of forged documents each year to cut the costs of bringing prosecutions, others in the courts assist in this racket.
        There is about 150000 prosecutions a year because of this blackmail, though i doubt the likes of Lindsay and other bleeding heart lefties care a fig about them.

        About 20+ years ago there was a celebrity/columnist in the Times who had got as far as an appeal to the ECHR, it then vanished, i just cannot remember who it was.

    • ButcombeMan

      Competence would be very nice.

      The budget will be the final test, if Osborne gets bogged down in things like pasty tax and caravan tax again, we will know he has become totally the captive of the mindless youths in HM Treasury.

  • an ex-tory voter

    He might earn a little respect if he were to list the 100 differences in economic and tax policy between his government and the opposition. If he then went on to argue for and justify the “differences”, he might just earn a tiny bit more respect.
    Sadly for the nation and his party he should have done this as head of a minority administration after losing the last general election. He didn’t and he will pay the price for his timidity and lack of leadership very soon.
    Or should I say the people will pay the price, come to think of it, they are.
    “Too little, too late”. It should be put on his headstone. It will certainly be part of his fast approaching political epitaph.

    • Russell

      As I am sure you know, it would be impossible to list 100 differences on not only economic & tax policy, but on All policies!

      • an ex-tory voter

        Quite!!

      • Democritus

        Exactly why no opposition party ever sets out it’s policies before a general election.

        • John Zorn

          T

          • Democritus

            Well done, you’re learning the alphabet. What comes after T?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

          They don’t have policy. The Treasury tells them what to do. They are puppets for vested interests

  • http://www.facebook.com/steven.efstathiou Steven Efstathiou

    The Tories are in with ‘a good chance’, are they James? Two years from an election and a mere 12 months before the Coalition goes its separate ways, the Conservative Party has lost all semblance of economic authority. Even Ed Balls fails to dent the Labour Party’s lead in the polls, quite the reverse, in fact…
    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3144/Labour-close-the-gap-on-economy-with-Conservatives-but-still-dont-convince-that-they-would-do-a-better-job.aspx

  • http://twitter.com/PhilKean1 @PhilKean1

    .
    He should forget worrying about Labour –

    – and start worrying about if Labour don’t win a majority and end up sharing Government with the hated Liberals. Because that really WILL be game-over for decent British taxpayers.

    Cameron should just accept that his crusade to eradicate Conservatism has definitely lost him the 2015 election, and that all he is doing by trying to close the poll gap with Labour is make the nightmare prospect of a Lib-Lab Coalition more likely.
    .

    • ArchiePonsonby

      Face it, Phil. The Tories are a lost cause, and deservedly so after electing a plonker like Cameron. I seem to remember someone telling us all to vote for Cameron because his evident left-wingery was a mere ploy to get elected when he would revert to true Toryism. (“Keeping his powder dry” I believe was the expression!) Well that turned out REALLY well!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

        Cameron fitted the prejudices of the Surrey-Berkshire-Buckinghamshire-Wiltshire-Kent set that dominate the membership. They made their choice and the Voting public was unimpressed

        • ArchiePonsonby

          Well quite, T T, they elected a proto-Blair who was already in decline. Talk about preparing to fight the last war!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

      Don’t discount a Grand Coalition with Tory/Labour as in 1931

      • http://twitter.com/PhilKean1 @PhilKean1

        Oh, I haven’t.

        I think that ANY option is on the table to prevent, what would end up being THE most catastrophic political alliance of all known time and history: Labour and the Liberals.
        .

    • Paddy

      And how long do you think a Lib-Lab pact would last?

      Just imagine Balls and his cronies sharing power. I’d give it 2 months at the most.

  • faoud khan

    David cameron should call a general Election now. End all this vacillation and u-turning. It is evident the Tories are incapable of managing the economy as they are inexperienced and simply pandering to the wishes of a select band of contributors to the Conservative Party. We the voters need a Government of managers and this pitiful band of Tory posh-boys and girls need to go now.

    • Ron Todd

      He should have the EU referendum now. Then call a general election. Except didn’t he change the rules on when we can have an election?

      • faoud khan

        Yes he changed the rules so they can be in government for a full five year term. However, I suspect he felt he could somehow manipulate the economy by giving tax breaks to the better off. Instead he has created a flat economy and falling productivity. All the hallmarks of true conservative concern only for the wealthy. he should call the EU referendum now and face the consequences.

        • Ron Todd

          For most of the last labour government the rich payed less income tax than they do now

          • Russell

            Actually that should read for all of the last labour government the rich paid less tax.

          • John Zorn

            And the ppoor still cooodnt spel.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

            Do you have the revenue figures of total tax take by band ?

    • Austin Barry

      Let me guess, Labour, right?

    • Daniel Maris

      Er – if you remember, they passed a law to prevent that. Another of their stupid, useless ideas.

    • David Lindsay

      It is not about posh people per se. Labour was never the party of anything like the whole of the working classes, nor did those classes ever provide anything like all of its support. Britain has neither a proletariat nor a bourgeoisie in the Marxist or Continental sense, but several working classes and several middle classes.

      There was never any incongruity about the presence of middle or upper-class people in the Labour Party, and not least among Labour MPs. Nor about their having come from, and far from cast off, either Liberal or Tory backgrounds. Especially in Labour’s early years, those backgrounds routinely included activism, and indeed parliamentary service, on behalf of either of those parties.

      Herbert Morrison professed never to have seen any conflict “between Labour and
      what are known as the middle classes”. Aneurin Bevan denounced class war, calling instead for “a platform broad enough for all to stand upon” and for the making of “war upon a system, not upon a class”. Both served under Clement Attlee (Haileybury, Oxford, the Bar and the Officer Corps), who was succeeded by Hugh Gaitskell (Winchester and Oxford).

      Harold Wilson was a Fellow of an Oxford college, and the son of a chemist and a schoolteacher. Jim Callaghan was a tax inspector. Michael Foot’s public school may have been the Quakers’ Leighton Park, but it was still a public school, which duly sent him to Oxford; he and his brothers indicated just how far the sons of a provincial solicitor could climb if they were sent to the “right” schools. Neil Kinnock’s father may have been a miner, but he himself was a lecturer. John Smith was a QC. We all know about Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

      And why not?

      The Eton College George Orwell Society famously sent three delegates to the People’s Assembly Against The War. 10 years on, during which Eton has become big political news, it would be quite a coup to have their successors at the People’s Assembly Against Austerity on Saturday 22nd June, at the Central Hall, Westminster, from 9:30am to 5pm. But it would be even more of one if an Eton boy, an 18-year-old voter so that no one could question it, were to speak from that Assembly’s platform.

      • faoud khan

        David, that is an excellent analysis of modern Labour leadrship. I think it is inevitable that some of the Labour current and past leadership had excellent education from top private schools and universities. The difference between the Labour MP’s and the present Conservative MP’s is simple:- no Labour memeber ever forgets where their roots are and those who elected them whereas the Conservative members always portray their privilleged upbringing, their social standing, and their lack of compassion towards those of us who are not as affluent as them. I do not condone any class structure in a modern society.
        This Government is capricious in their actions and by amending the law to keep them in power for a full five year term, they have ensured that they will continue to govern by trial and error. The Government has not got a clue how to manage the country.

        • Wessex Man

          I must say that I agree with both Daivid Lindsay and faoud Khan, the item about little nell was zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

      • John Zorn

        That’s all bollocks.

        • David Lindsay

          No, it just exposes the fact that the only class war politics is, and has always been, your own, and even then only over the last 40 years. Thatcher introduced class war politics to this country. Such a war never existed here before she began to wage it.

          Although not even under her did that party ever fight the class war with quite the sheer viciousness that it is doing so now. Determined to get everything out of the way by 2015, I suppose, because the party itself will no longer exist by 2020.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            There has never not been a class war in the UK.

            Ya’ muppet.

            • David Lindsay

              There was no such thing under the post-War settlement. There was, I have to give it its due on this, nowhere near as much of one under New Labour (or even John Major, in his way) as there was before and as there has been since.

              But there certainly is now. Waged, as ever when it has been waged, by only one side, the only side in a position to wage, although never before, not even in the 1980s, with the sheer viciousness that it is doing so now.

              A year ago, 24 per cent of people in this country identified as working-class. After a further 12 months on the receiving end of the class war, that figure is now up to 60 per cent, with more than two years still left to go. We experience this Government, that tells us what we are not, and that in turn tells us what we are.

              There is no longer a middle class such as many of us would previously have said that we came from. Like a large and thriving private sector, a large and thriving middle class depends on central and local government action. Thanks to Cameron’s Class War, there is now only Us and Them. Which are you, and why?

              Thatcher went a long way to turning Britain into the country that Marxists has always said that it was, even though before her it never actually had been. Cameron is finishing the job. And then, what? It doesn’t bear thinking about. He must be stopped and removed immediately.

              • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

                The War on Grammar Schools was waged as Class War by public school types such as Crosland and Shirley Williams

                • David Lindsay

                  No, by public school types (oh, yes, she was) like Thatcher, who closed so many of them that there were not enough left at the end for her record ever to be equalled.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

            Trade Disputes Act 1927 was before Thatcher

  • http://www.facebook.com/vrai.telemachus.5 Vrai Telemachus

    In the first hundred days Labour will restore confidence in the NHS, remove the antipathy of teachers to their work, give the disabled back the money stolen in the bedroom tax and others, but most importantly invest for growth.

    • BigAl

      How can you give back a tax that doesn’t exist? You could make the rich pay more though…..

      • John Zorn

        Let’s insert our naughty parts into the rich.

    • Hoew

      Like all socialists, Labour doesn’t understand money and where it all comes from, which is why the country always goes bust or nearly bust under their governments.

      QED calling something which is not a tax a tax.

      • ButcombeMan

        They know.

        They are a party of crooks and liars, without honour or honesty.

        • John Zorn

          Like me.

      • John Zorn

        Marx didnt understand money? You jerk!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

        WE were bust under Heath and are bust under Cameron

    • Russell

      For all the simpletons. Tax can only apply to money which is yours. A reduction of a payment to someone of other peoples money is a reduced benefit not a tax. The rotten to the core labour party and their equally rotten to the core supporters keep repeating nonsense like bedroom tax, granny tax etc to convince theother IQ2’s that it is a tax. Unfortunately with support from the BBC and even Sky news reporters this lie continues to be used for political purposes. Even Tory Ministers and MP’s in the HoC simply ignore labour calling it a tax and reply to questions instead of berating them or saying they can’t answer a question about something which does not exist.
      The dirty tricks of the lying spinning smearing labour party continues long after Campbell & Co.

      • http://www.facebook.com/vrai.telemachus.5 Vrai Telemachus

        Politics is still partly about sound bites and just now there are a few good sound bites from labour
        It’s a tough world

        • ButcombeMan

          But a sound bite that is a lie and is deliberatley designed to deceive is still, a lie.

          Labour’s lies do tend to get found out.

          • http://www.facebook.com/vrai.telemachus.5 Vrai Telemachus

            No mate
            We have the Mirror and Sun this time
            Farage has been dining with Murdoch so the Sun and Times will screw Cameron

            • Wessex Man

              hip hip hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Daniel Maris

            It’s well within the bounds of political debate I would say. They are saying that the income of people affected will be reduced and the treasury will be better off accordingly. It will therefore have the same effect as a tax – that is the point, an especially pertinent one when the government had reduced the top rate of tax for the wealthy in our society.

            • ButcombeMan

              Daniel dear chap , it is not within the “bounds of political debate” that is unless you are a crook. It is fraudulent, it is designed to deceive some of the less well educated electorate. It is 3rd world gutter politics: It is bluntly, a criminal offence. The public deserves better from our legislators. The Labour party no longer knows right from wrong.

              Defintion of Fraud.
              Fraud by false representation (Section 2)

              The defendant: made a false representation

              dishonestly

              knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

              The offence is entirely focused on the conduct of the defendant.

              • Wessex Man

                Are you saying that lies are not within the bounds of political debate, oh dear a recently moved in resident of one of HM prisons is going to have to squeeze up even more and just go on gritting his teeth!

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

              Removal of Child Benefit is a tax increase in effect just as removing tax allowances is a tax increase or reducing Council Tax Benefit.

      • The Hermit

        When is a tax not a tax? When its a “spare room subsidy.” Whichever genius dreamt that one up must have phd in semantics.

      • John Zorn

        Post unreadable. Move on after a quick scan…

      • Paddy

        Why do the Tories keep answering questions on the bedroom tax?

        The Tories should just say there is no such thing as a bedroom tax and sit down.

        I thought Cameron was supposed to read these blogs.

    • 2trueblue

      How will they restore confidence in the NHS? They are currently being found out on their treatment of the NHS and the fact that it became a political football rather than the service that looks after patients. In 13yrs they managed to redeifine what the NHS was for, to fragment it and cover their own mistakes. They have yet to take responsibility for the large number of deaths that occured on their watch. They walked away and those responsible have yet to be identiified and punished. They brought us the lovely expression ‘Lessons have been learned” that they think means it is all OK.

      • http://www.facebook.com/vrai.telemachus.5 Vrai Telemachus

        Before 1997 we had the insult of thousands dying on waiting lists
        We need to consolidate and value
        I what industry do you know where the CEO (Hunt) hauls out his staff daily in the press and then expects them to work well?

        • Wessex Man

          and Mid staffs is a shining light from Labour how to reduce the waiting lists!

  • Russell

    A very weak speech from Cameron, totally lacking fire or confidence or inspiration. I do agree that labour have been appalling over the last few years as an opposition and with their record during 13 years in office should be an easy target in the 2015 election campaign and what the Conservatives should be concentrating on.
    The Tory communications department is rubbish and unless they get their act together and start reminding people about exactly who was in government when the NHS went down the pan, when education went down the pan, when manufacturing was abandoned, when PFI contracts were fatally drawn up for the UK finances, when all the phone hacking took place, when corruption in the police force took place, and a whole lot more, they will get wiped out come 2015 because UKIP will definitely cause the Tories to lose seats to Labour and LibDem in those marginals, and possibly even lose potentially winning seats to one or two UKIP candidates.

    • HookesLaw

      Only nut jobs want a labour govt.

      • trevor21

        Not all psycopaths are Tories BUT all Tories are psycopaths. Fact of life.

        • http://www.facebook.com/josephalan.jones Joseph Alan Jones

          trevor21- I think I am a psycopath – what is you address?

        • Democritus

          HaHa, like it, can I quote it?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

          Where did the missing “h” go ?

      • Democritus

        No I think Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem supporters have all designated the nut jobs to UKIP. As most UKIP supporters were Conservative voters before…..I doubt they will vote labour.

      • John Zorn

        And your nuts need kicking.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

        You qualify then

  • Austin Barry

    Is this the right message, we’re hopeless but Labour is worse?

    Votes for UKIP all round, I should think.

    • andagain

      Is this the right message, we’re hopeless but Labour is worse?

      Most convincing election slogan I have heard in a long time.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        It will be interesting to see how UKIP responds to that message. That response should be witty, but with some depth. You want to gently mock, but also inform.

        • Russell

          Labour want the UK to borrow more money and banks to do more lending to business whereas the Conservatives want businesses to borrow more money from increased bank lending!
          You couldn’t make it up.
          Most of the population have reduced their borrowing or stopped borrowing to get their finances in better shape and all three major parties want more borrowing.

          • HookesLaw

            Businesses borrow to invest. And then make a return on their investment. Why should you grumble about that. Low interest rates make that option more inviting for businesses. Its how the economic cycle works.

            Individuals can take the opportunity to pay down debt when interest rates are low (mortgage repayments being the prime example of this)

            Governments can only borrow what they can afford to repay and right now the UK govt has inherited a level of spending which cannot be sustained by revenues. Governments borrow to sustain the economy over the economic cycle. Thats what this govt is doing now as well as cutting its discretionary spending to levels it actually can afford over the cycle.

            • Democritus

              Unfortunately for the Conservatives they made bold promises to reduce the deficit within 5 years and that won’t happen. Borrowing today is more than under the last government but tiny compared to the 1920’s or after WW2, yet borrowing rates for the government are much lower than they were in the 1920’s or in the 40’s.

              • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

                In 1920s 40% Government Spending was INTEREST, Not until 1936 did DEFENCE exceed INTEREST …….that is what will happen here if there is any recovery in the global economy

                • Minnie

                  And the 1936 growth was down to the policies of one man..Neville Chamberlain who, with his budget strategy from 1932 onwards, allowed Britain to invest in the preparation of its military for war.
                  Surprising that the one man who gave us the chance to successfully go to war should be now regarded as the clown who gave us Munich.
                  So very sad.

                • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

                  So true, but he died in Nov 1940 of cancer and Churchill wrote the narrative o cover his own criminal negligence with the Ten Year Rule. It was Chamberlain that built the Rolls Royce factory in Crewe. Churchill had been a City hatchet man as Chancellor and put Labour in power in 1929

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

              This is hogwash. DEMAND is what drives Investment unless you replace labour with capital. Low Interest Rates have no effect because they are LOW because Noone outside the Charmed Circle can borrow. Banks can borrow at 50bp but individuals only at 2900bp and there are NO investments that work at 2900bp.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

              “(mortgage repayments being the prime example of this)” Yes but INTEREST INCOME has been destroyed and 7 Savers support 1 Borrower

          • Democritus

            No, they want business’s to be able to borrow to expand exports. Many companies are struggling not because we’re in recession (although some business’s are) but because of lack of investment. Most investment comes from borrowing.

            • John Zorn

              Businesses.

              • Democritus

                Well done.

                I spelled it wrong to see if any cretin would notice. You win first prize. Everyone please applaud John Zorn………….

            • Democritus

              By the amount of negative votes I see the Tory posters are against investment, how odd.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

              or RETAINED EARNINGS

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

            The Coop deal is the best example. Borrow £350 million from Lloyds TSB to give Lloyds TSB for 632 branches. Lloyds TSB gives Coop £1.25 billion dowry plus Managers + IT System to own a new Bank. Cost to Lloyds TSB Shareholders £2 billion as penalty for wiping out their Shareholders by rescuing HBOS. This is the New British Economics ………..

        • Daniel Maris

          …and not repeat the same message over, and over, and over again, eh?

          • the viceroy’s gin

            …unless it’s to decry the windmill stupidity, and other braindead, destructive nonsense that the Left pushes constantly.

            • Democritus

              So how many MP’s do ukip have?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Maybe you and all your sockpuppets should take some time and count them up for yourself.

                • Democritus

                  I post on one name only. Do you have a problem?

                • Democritus

                  But it seems I get voted down twice so perhaps viceroy’s gin is a sock puppet? and not very clever.

            • BuBBleBus

              The only reason windmills are not effective yet is because there has been insufficent investment in them. Only joking. Ive been reading the new statesman this week for a change.

    • 2trueblue

      Vote UKIP and we will get kippered.

      • Wessex Man

        Vote Tory get Call me Dave the left wing Liberal, vote Lib/Dem get Clegg over the Socialist, vote Labour get Ed Balls up and his spending tactics of the Son of the Manse era that got us here in the first place, oh happy days, think I’ll vote for Nigel Farrage at least we’ll get rid of Herman Van Rompuy!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

      Hang them all. Simply splinter the vote and take to the streets

  • BigAl

    You get what you vote for and also pay for it especially if you are the 10% who pay the majority of income taxes.

    • Democritus

      Majority of income tax payers are 80%.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alan-Phillips/100001459288928 Alan Phillips

    About time too.

    If the proof of the Lib-dems is that on Monday they do side with REd, then take that as the start of the Lib-Lab pact, for the 2015 election. DC and co, might as well start to pander to this coalition nonsense and do what they would have done if they were the out-right winners of GE2010. This playing with a straight bat malarkey has to stop.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      It’s too late for that.

      The time to go it alone has long passed. The Cameroons could have chosen to do so in 2010, but now that they’re being forced into it, for electoral survival, it’s just too late. The damage is done.

      This all required strong, visionary leadership, back in 2010. Hunker down, and win through. Not in a month or even a single year. But in a series of battles, coalescing public opinion FOR them rather than reacting to public opinion which is now coalescing AGAINST them.

      The Cameroons are both a policy and political failure. They are now on an inexorable path, to an inevitable fate.

      • Grrr88

        “strong, visionary leadership”

        There is no-one in the Tory Party that could get near to this.

        Those with the strength do not have the charisma or vision.
        Or have we forgotten Will Hague?

        • http://www.facebook.com/vrai.telemachus.5 Vrai Telemachus

          You mean he who shared a bed with Christopher Meyers
          Innocent of course

          • Emulous

            William Hague is the only one with gravitas.

            • John Zorn

              Dear Christ.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

              He is a complete fraud. Why do we hear no mention of his discussions with Lavrov about the Russian gas pipeline being extended to the UK so Gazprom can compete with British Gas ?

            • ButcombeMan

              No he lost any semblance of gravitas over his curious room sharing arrangements.

              • ButcombeMan

                And his 14 pints

                • ButcombeMan

                  And his baseball cap

        • Grrr8

          I’m going to take it as a compliment that you’ve tried to steal my ID. Imitation being the most sincere form of flattery of course.

      • http://atoryblog.blogspot.com Man in a Shed

        Quite right. Cameron needed courage a determination in 2010. ( He had the example in Canada to follow ). Instead he put personal ambition and a desire for a who’s who entry in front of the nation and his party. That cowardice and betrayal in now bearing fruit. The country will need the disaster of RedEd for the right to sort itself out. ( Perhaps the quiet execution of the husk of the former Conservative party is needed ).

        • jimmy mac

          Does that sorting out of the right include a return to a Party with 1950s values, or a pragmatic, forward looking Party of the 2010s?

          • http://atoryblog.blogspot.com Man in a Shed

            There is an inherent problem with conservatism ( which would cover the 1950’s caricature you suggest – though lets remember those who ran society then had just lived through the evil of the struggles against national socialism ) and that is you sit inside the walls of you defences awaiting defeat.

            I think this is why the so called modernisers are foolish enough to make common cause with the cultural marxists and undermine society with insults like redefining marriage. They can think of no alternative given the seeming inevitable victory of the left in defining culture in its own image. ( You make this concession when you say things like “forward looking” – as you don’t even question forward to what ? )

            Its time for a right wing march through the institutions. We need an ambitious, aggressive and disciplined attack on the centres of the left’s cultural power. We need a plan that will make the defeat of the left seem as inevitable as the defeat of family life, our culture and even our existence as a nation seem today to the hand ringing modernisers who wish us to pass into the night with the minimum of fuss.

            • jimmy mac

              Gay Marriage – though I don’t think it should be extended to churches, I see nothing wrong with gay people having the opportunity to get married if that’s what they want to do. Registry office – fine. I don’t see it as the Tory Party making changes for the sake of it, I see it as another thing ticked off on the long road to ensuring equal rights to British citizens. Having a law that says gay marriage is illegal is surely a law that needs to be abolished now.

              • ButcombeMan

                Gay marriage is a contradiction in terms. They stole the word gay, I am not going to let them steal the word and meaning of marriage.

                Cameron should never have got so personally involved in the gay crusade. It has upset many in his own party who cannot see the point, it has upset much of the immigrant vote.

                Rather than broaden the appeal of the Tory party, it has narrowed it.

                It was a crass idea and it was crass politics.

                It made the rise of UKIP inevitable.

                • Democritus

                  Bend over and take it and suck it up. bigots like you can wail all they like. it’s law now and no more hypocrisy from filth like you.

                • ButcombeMan

                  Nice, very nice. Utterly charming.

                  We clearly have a member of the intolerant gay gestapo among us.

                  Actually it is NOT law yet, but why bother with the facts when you are a member of the gay gestapo.

                  You ascribe bigotry where there is none. I absolutely supported civil partnerships and equal rights.

                  Plainly you cannot understand the difficulty.

                  Because you cannot understand does not mean you are right, in fact it is self evidently, much more likely to mean you are wrong.

                  I feel rather sorry for you.

              • http://atoryblog.blogspot.com Man in a Shed

                Marriage is by definition between a man and a woman, for life and the upbringing of children. That why the likes of Cameron are redefining it, rather than extending some I’ll defined ‘right’.

                Of course the hidden objective here is to undermine the family. Which is why as a conservative Cameron should have said over my dead body on this, but then he’s no conservative. This issue has made this point very clear to voters.

                • Democritus

                  So people who marry and don’t have children are abnormal?

                • Democritus

                  I’ve been with my husband for 34 years (most of our lives). we don’t have children, does that make us not normal? should we not be married?

              • Democritus

                it was churches that campaigned for gay marriage. not the CoE obviously, they don’t even like women.

                But other religions did lobby and won through. It’s not a big issue for anyone except the little bigots who want to run everyone’s lives.

        • John Zorn

          RedEd – who are you trying to kid?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

        As a minority government with LibDems for Supply he could have played the martyr and gained public support but that was never his agenda, to rule for the nation or its people

    • Democritus

      The polls at present give Labour a comfortable majority in the next election, something that has alluded the conservatives since 1987!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004981542519 Tom Tom

        ABSTENTIONS make the Polls inane

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