Coffee House

Liam Fox: I’d vote to leave the EU

20 January 2013

12:11 PM

20 January 2013

12:11 PM

Not that it’s a great surprise, but Liam Fox has come out as an out-er – i.e., he’d vote to leave the European Union if it cannot be reformed. He has hinted at this before, writing that the idea of leaving the EU “holds no terror” for him but on Sunday Politics he explicitly told Andrew Neil that he’d prefer independence to the status quo. Once, that would made Fox a minority voice but now it’s the mainstream position – and one shared, I suspect, by at least a dozen of his Cabinet colleagues who have no yet gone on the record.

If you’re happy with Britain’s EU membership, you occupy a fringe position in British politics. And you want to keep the status quo, Fox said with a not-entirely-respectful chuckle, ‘vote Liberal Democrat’. And then:-

Andrew Neil: “If we don’t as a country get a major repatriation package and that – roughly – the status quo was roughly on offer, would you vote to leave?”

Liam Fox: “If the choice for me was between going in the current direction – which, let’s face it, is towards ever-closer and ultimately a greater and greater loss of British sovereignty, then personal preference would be to leave. I don’t want to have ever-closer union, I don’t want to be European first and British second.”


It wouldn’t surprise me if, tomorrow, some newspapers write this up as the ‘Tory right’ putting pressure on David Cameron and going off on a tangent. But this isn’t about Tories, not any more. It’s about the basic fact that there’s only so long you can keep a democracy in a union against its will. The below (from an excellent Citi research note on ‘Brexit’) shows an opinion poll taken not by UKIP but by the European Commission – the largest poll in the world – asking people if they’d be better off out of the EU.

This shows that no one – not the sado-austerity suffering Greeks nor the technocrat-led Italians – wants out of the EU more than the Brits. This is not (take note, BBC) about a Tory leader trying to assuage a wing of his party – you simply can’t be in the game of democratic politics and ignore this. Ed Miliband should have a long, hard look at the above graph. Because a good chunk, perhaps most, of his target voters won’t like our current EU relationship any more than Liam Fox does.


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Show comments
  • Macky Dee

    Watch this video:
    And then comment on who you would rather have speaking for the UK with regards the EU.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Looking forward to questions of and articles from Euroloons why they want to stay in Europe but don’t want to adopt the Euro.

  • Macky Dee

    If after renegotiation, the british public vote in a referendum to remain in the EU on new terms, this would mean the british public voting in favour of the status quo regarding everything else that wasn’t renegotiated. So, if this happened, the british public would actually be voting in favour of A) A commission that is not democratically elected. B) A parliament that has limited rights and is basically a talking shop. C) A single market which is impeded with such things like the Working Time Directive which, should be classed as employment law. The single market is abused in this way because it is much easier to put through legislation as a single market issue as many regulations are brought in using just a majority (QMV). The single market is not a free market:
    We have to admit that the Eurozone countries are going to need the EU institutions to form a closer union and to form their own jurisdictions. In my opinion they need to do their thing, we need to do ours, and that means atleast seriously considering life outside the EU.

  • barbie

    Mr Fox made some silly mistakes while Defence Minister, not that they can not be forgiven, they can. I think he learned his lesson, but he is a skilled politican whom the Conservatives need urgently. May be he’s the new leader in waiting? I must admit to liking him. He would make a good negociator for the EU, certainly better than Cameron will be, trusting him is hard to do giving his reputation so far. I welcome him back and his answers on the programme today were what we want to hear.

    • HooksLaw

      Pathetic. The defence review was carried out by Fox and he still agrees with it (labour left our defences in a mess). But to use him as your mouthpiece you have to rewrite his past.

      Fox’s comments of course are quite safe – we are not going to join in with the new EU ever closer fiscal union treaty, which is why Cameron will soon announce that we will be renegotiating our relationship with the EU. So Fox will not have to vote to leave.

      Hague has only a few hours ago said as much.
      ‘The foreign secretary said he wanted the UK’s EU membership to be a
      success but “fresh consent” would likely be needed as the institution
      changed.’ (BBC)

      • an ex-tory voter

        The more noise you and all the other trolls make about Liam Fox (or any other right of centre politician) the more of a threat you perceive them to be. Your smears are transparent, pointless and a waste of your time, merely serving to confirm the threat he poses to your socialistic construct.

        • Wessex Man

          an ex tory voter

          Normally I would agree with you about Hooky’s blathering but Hooky is right here, I wouldn’t trust Fox any further that I could throw Eric Pickles.

    • Dimoto

      barbie, in terms of electoral credibility, Fox is some distance behind IDS, Hague and Redwood. You may find his Scots accent cute, but he is an electoral liability.
      But don’t worry, his friends in Washington will soon put him right about what they want.

  • Noa

    It’s fascinating to note that the three countries which suffered so much under Nazism are those most sceptical about the EU and what it presages.

    The Czech Republic and Poland suffered most and, despite the bribes from Brussels those memories surely underpin the old hard learned lessons.

    As the EU offers them no military security will they still stay when the UK leaves?

    • DrCoxon

      A most interesting observation, Noa.
      If only we had defended them better in 1938, 1939.

  • Coffee House

    It would be good to see what Fox considers is enough renegotiation and what he understands Article 50 to mean.

  • dalai guevara

    Fox is working hard on his comeback, is this why we are have to endure statements like ‘I would vote out id the EU is not reformed’?

    Well guess what dottore, the EU will reform (not because y o u say so), ergo you have just stated nothing that would make any difference.

    • williamblakesghost

      Of course it is reforming. It is fulfilling its ever closer integration mantra and that is what will drive us out.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    “…you simply can’t be in the game of democratic politics and ignore this”.



    Don’t be ridiculous. Of COURSE you can ignore this. You’ve been doing it for years, just as you ignore so many other issues uncomfortable for you and your fellow bubble denizens.

  • an ex-tory voter

    Dr Fox is not so damaged as to be prevented from leading his party and the nation. His “crimes” are small beer in comparison to those who have previously held the position and the man who currently holds the position.

    • mikewaller

      I could not disagree more. It is my fervent wish that the appalling Fox physically leave the EU and the UK remains within it.

      I place no weight whatsoever on the shifts in public option which generally result from the efforts of the ex-pats, foreigners and pornographers who comprise much of the current crop of press barons. What influences my thinking is that Western countries are heading for a large-scale clash between democracy and further globalisation with increasing levels of protectionism being the most probable outcome.

      In such a context, being a global sole-trader is about as smart as being a chicken at the National Convention of Foxes. As big powerblocks do deals, dumping (in both senses of the word) on the UK will become standard practice. The underlying problem is that there is far too much productive capacity in the world and the UK’s aggregate levels of productivity are simply not high enough to cut the mustard.

      It’s alright the majority of contributors to this list puffing their little chests out and thinking themselves born again Churchills, ready to go it alone; but never forget when Churchill was in that position he did everything in his power to drag powerful others into a larger alliance.

      • an ex-tory voter

        The shift in public opinion has nothing to do with “press barons” or pornographers. Indeed, were it not for the outrageous and indefensible bias of the state funded BBC the shift in public opinion would be far greater.
        The shift in public opinion is caused by the growing democratic deficit and by the fact that the public are no longer forced to swallow the politically biased news feeds issued by the BBC.
        This is especially true of the young and of anyone who is politically aware, both of whom no longer trust the BBC, or the political elite.
        Neither the government not the BBC yet control the open flow of information that is the internet and it is that uncorrupted information which feeds the shift in public opinion.

        • Samuel Pepys

          Agree entirely. I don’t know anyone who thinks they are Churchill but I do know lots of people who see their country being destroyed and harmed and want to do something about it, without knowing what.

          What is clear is that our political class is working against us. Fix will gave to

          • mikewaller

            I think that you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. I have just found this on an EU website and it accords far more with the world as I apprehend it than with what you are claiming.

            “A new poll carried out for the European Commission’s Representation in the UK suggests that a low level of understanding of what the EU is and does contributes to the negative image of the EU in the UK. 82% of respondents in the poll said they knew little or nothing and 59% said they were not interested in receiving more information. However, when presented with specific EU initiatives, such as Air Passenger Rights and the Bathing Water Report, most people considered them to be important and more than half indicated that the fact that they were EU initiatives made them feel more positive about the EU. While the poll showed that the UK is pretty evenly split on whether the costs of EU membership outweigh the benefits, it did show that most British people vastly over-estimate that cost, with three-quarters believing the EU’s budget was larger than the UK’s, when in fact the UK budget is 6 times larger.” (end of quote)

            When not pre-primed with standard anti-EU rhetoric, almost everybody I know admits that the pros and cons of staying within the EU are quite beyond them. What is really needed is (a) a Royal Commission and (b) recognition that the massive problems we face come from the huge West to East shift in economic power, not membership of the EU

            • barbie

              Your list proves many people’s point of view. They have taken over many laws and institutions, that’s the problem, they want to become the United States of Europe, with all its status and power, we don’t want that, we have the right to decide our own destiny.

              • HooksLaw

                Things like ‘ Air Passenger Rights and the Bathing Water Report’ are good things in themselves but from the point of competition it makes sense they are instituted all over Europe and not just an extra cost to us alone.

                They are negotiated under the terms of a treaty as other treaties are which have nothing to do with the EU.
                None of this needs the panoply of a political parliament of course – its quite fair to say this is a waste of time. But the UK is inevitably going to drift away from the increasingly closer political union of the EU. its a different matter to start saying we should be out of the EU totally and outside its tariff barrier.

                In terms of per population and per income our EU contribution is not excessive compared to other nations. It would be better if Blair had not given away our rebate. Yet the reality of UKIP is to attack the conservatives and present victory to labour.
                Go figure.

            • Russell

              And you seriously suggest that clean bathing water issues are worth paying £20 billion per year for, plus the endless stream of business regulations and immigration orders?
              I think you are in a small (and getting smaller) minority.

            • LEngland

              Since 1973, we have paid, at today’s rates, £20bn per year to these Fascistic asset strippers and have received naught but a heavy applied dose of Sadism and attempts to wreck all we hold dear.
              Plus, we have paid to implement their lunatic ‘directives’ ( a few; CAP, Data Retention, CFP, Social, Economic, Weights and measures, Working Time, Dangerous and useless fluorescent light tubes,Water Rationing, Mad landfill daftness, Banana wastage, Carbon controls and attempted racial denigration (with the help of other culprits ) to cut down our World Intellectual Influence – via open borders, etc. )
              Given all these truths, it is hard to understand how any Briton can endure our abasement to these bureacratic terrorists. We fought WW2 certainly to ensure freedom from such InterNazi pushing – around.
              I will be delighted to respond to anyone who can refute these assertions without descending to a repti(l)lian personal abuse.

            • Augustus

              Relations between the peoples of Europe have not been worse since 1945 thanks to this disastrous experiment. The European Union is only ‘united’ when accepting a Nobel Prize.

        • mikewaller

          Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure I heard a week or so ago that a survey which looked at the difference between age group and attitude to the EU found that the young tended to be much more positive with only the over 60s having a majority against.

          • an ex-tory voter

            There are lies, damned lies and statistics!! I care nothing for your favourite pollsters. I go by what I read and what I hear and what I read and hear is a rising tide of euroscepticism. Nowadays, the “loony tunes” are the europhiles.

            • mikewaller

              What a wonderfully nuanced contribution to the debate!

            • Dimoto

              There is certainly a rising tide of Euroscepticism, why wouldn’t there be ?
              But the UKIPpers are quite wrong to think that that is the same as visceral Europhobia.

          • Russell

            You are obviously not aware who owns/runs YouGov on behalf of Miliband and Labour are you?

            • mikewaller

              Let the facts speak for themselves; this is what Wikipedia says. Incidentally Nadhim Zahawi is my local MP and I was aware of his connection to YouGov. I trust you are not suggesting that he or any of his former colleagues are 5th columnists. .

              “YouGov, formerly known as Polimetrix in the United States, is an international internet-basedmarket research firm launched in the UK in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare, now Chief Executive Officer, and Nadhim Zahawi. In 2005 the company opened an office in the Middle East, YouGovSiraj now renamed YouGov, and in 2007 it further expanded by acquiring market research firms in the USA (YouGov Polimetrix), Germany (previously YouGov Psychonomics) and Scandinavia (previously YouGov Zapera), which are now part of the YouGov Group.[1] YouGov is a member of the British Polling Council.

              YouGov’s Chairman since April 2007 is Roger Parry, replacing political commentator Peter Kellner who now serves as President of the company.[2] When YouGov floated for £18million in April 2005, Kellner owned 6% of the company.[3]

              YouGov’s former CEO Nadhim Zahawi resigned from the board to stand in the 2010 General Election and is now a Conservative PartyMP for Stratford Upon Avon. The current CEO, Stephan Shakespeare, stood in the 1997 general election as the Conservative candidate for Colchester.”

              • an ex-tory voter

                Statistical bollox. It is possible to prove or disprove any point using statistics, they are of no interest. What matters is the feeling on the street and that is undoubtedly growing more EU sceptic by the day. The europhiles are today’s loony tunes.

      • barbie

        Yes churchill did ask others to support him against our enemies of the time. That as nothing to do with freedom and sovereignty of a nation. You are converiging two senorios here which those who love the EU always do. Its called ‘sounding fears’ and it won’t work, not here. We were not afraid then and we won’t be afraid now, you are foolish if you have no faith in your own nation and it’s people.

  • wake up – BOO

    This is the best chance we have to get out. If we stayed in on whatever terms, as Fox says – albeit in the context of a return of powers and staying in – it will just ultimately lead to a greater and greater loss of British sovereignty.

  • Noa

    Cameron’s position is looking untenable.

    A referendum on a ‘renegotiation’ with a non negotiable EU is a risible fantasy. There is no long grass left to in which to hide the issue of UK sovereignty in.

    • Russell

      Just wait till you see ‘Cameron’s position’…..It will be….
      Vote YES for my re-negotiated membership (which will include very minor changes)

      OR vote NO to leave our membership as it is!!!!!!!!!
      In other words an IN/IN referendum.
      The only party who can be trusted on any EU referendum is UKIP, and they will get my vote whatever the outcome, even the idiot Miliband being PM for a few months (until there are riots or a revolution/military coup)..

  • Boudicca_Icenii

    It’s about time few of these so-called Conservative EU sceptics put the interests of their country above their own personal wealth.
    One of the very few things Cameron has ever said that I believe is that he will NEVER take the UK out of the EU. It’s the only honest thing he has ever said.
    The CON Party is led by a tiny, unrepresentative clique of Bilderberg appointees who do what the Globalists instruct, not what the British people want. Cameron is their man.
    If people like Fox genuinely believe that the UK is Better Off Out, then they should organise a coup against Cameron and start talking to Farage.

    • gladiolys

      What makes you think that EU scepticism is not about their own personal wealth (or power potentials)? These people are not patriots. Outside of the EU, we’d be sold off to American interests before you could say “Airstrip One”.

  • an ex-tory voter

    First I am a citizen of Gt Britain, then a human being. Europe is a continent located a just few miles away. It is filled with places I love to visit and people with whom I wish to enjoy a peaceful coexistence.

    Since the very day I was born I have been able to travel freely to this continent. All I had to do was present my “blue” passport and proceed without hindrance. All my life I have seen their cheese and their wine on the shelves of my shop and supermarket. Much of me life I have able to buy their motorcycles and cars from a dealership in my home town.
    In recent years my “blue” passport was confiscated and a new “purple” one issued. I am now instructed that my life must be lived by laws and directives issued from this nearby continent.
    My democratic rights are all but destroyed and I am told all of this is necessary to give me something I have enjoyed all my life. I am told it is necessary in order to protect or improve my standard of living. Apparently it will do this by forcing me to buy expensive goods and services from something called “the single market” at the same time as denying me access to less costly goods and services available from the rest of the world and in particular from the nations comprising the Commonwealth. So, I must pay and this will improve my standard of living and at the same time my poor friends in the Commonwealth and elsewhere must stay poor because I am prevented from buying the things trhey would trase with me to improve their own standard of living.
    I have a message for my lifelong friends on the continent. It is that much as I love you and wish to remain at peace with you, “you may place your purple passport and your single market in a place where the sun don’t shine”.

    • an ex-tory voter

      Apologies for the typos!!

    • stickywicket

      Very well put.

    • barbie

      Well said, couldn’t have thought to elequently myself, well done!

    • HooksLaw

      You want us to stuff the single market? Tell that to the people of Sunderland who export billions to Europe. Do you think they want to be outside the EU tariff zone?
      In Oxford I can imagine that BMW might like to massively expand their operations, but not if we are outside the EU tariff wall.

      We can be out of the EU, it might be nice – it might not – but the resulting trade agreement would not be much different to our arrangements now.

      The notion that your democratic rights have been destroyed is farcical. Out of the EU we go cap in hand to the EU to negotiate a free trade agreement – good luck with that and the massive uncertainty it will cast over UK industry and commerce – but do not expect it to be something which will make the least material difference to our lives.

      None of the fundamentals that are wrong with the UK will be solved by leaving the EU as totally as you suggest.

      • Dimoto

        You imagine wrong.

        BMW are busy “expanding Mini production” in the famously ludicrous DAFcar plant in Holland and at Steyr in Austria.

      • Bob339
      • an ex-tory voter

        The people of Sunderland export billions(?) “through” the EU, not “to” the EU. BMW exports the Mini from Cowley to all four corners of the globe. The tarrif wall costs this country many billions in lost exports and even more in artificially high prices to the consumers in this country. Go a little way from Sunderland and ask unemployed and bankrupt East Coast fishermen how their lives are improved by the tarriff wall and the Common Fisheries policy. They will tell you to look across the North Sea to the bouyant Norwegian fishing industry exporting billions from the same fishstocks but not suffrring the plunder of their national resource by foreign factory trawlers. Move outside the tarriff wall and make the nation richer and not just one or two corporate giants who operate and grow by taking government handouts funded by the poor.

        • Radford_NG

          There is a briliant satire on this which has the German Chancellor phoning Wolfsburg and Munich to explain to the CEOs of VW and BMW why their businesses have been scuppered by the refusal of the EU to give free-trade to the UK [complete with trade figures].Look-up `Global Britain`,then go to Briefing Notes No.82.This is a site by people who know what they are talking about.

    • Bob339

      Government ministers have refused to disclose how many Bulgarian and
      Romanian migrants could move to the UK next year despite admitting the
      “influx” could lead to housing shortages.

      Eric Pickles, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local
      Government, said that migrants from the two countries who are
      expected to start arriving in 2014 “will cause problems”.

      He warned that the expanding migrant population will put increased
      pressure on both the private and social housing sectors, but he
      refused to say how many Romanians and Bulgarians the Government
      expects to flood into the country after getting the right to live and
      work in the UK.

      Mr Pickles’s comments followed claims last month from planning
      minister Nick Boles that migrant families accounted for nearly half
      of Britain’s new housing needs.

      From the start of next year 29million Bulgarians and Romanians will
      gain the right to live and work unrestricted in Britain in 2014 under
      European “freedom of movement” rules.

  • Radford_NG

    “First I’m European, then I’m British,then I’m English……”.Sir Oswald Mosley [post 1945].

    • anyfool

      First I’m European, then I’m British,then I’m English

      That describes Milliband to a tee.
      If you take the English bit with a sack of salt.

    • barbie

      I refuse the European bit, being British is enough for me and the Queen as head of state, don’t need anything else.

    • Dimoto

      Christ ! 3 approvals for a quote from National Socialist Oswald Mosley, (with a spurious “Sir”). You really couldn’t make it up.
      For shame !

  • In2minds

    Liam Fox would leave the EU but was happy to be with Cameron who
    wants to stay in!

    • David Lindsay

      He’d leave the EU but be happy with domination by a (fiercely pro-EU) American faction which is not even in government in its own country, by an Israeli faction which most unfortunately is, and by the downright genocidal regime in Sri Lanka.

      When are the people who have been right all along about the full range of the threat to British and parliamentary sovereignty finally going to be allowed access to the airwaves?

  • Nigel Jones

    Yes, its a shame that Dr Fox is such damaged goods that he can’t be a credible alternative leader to Cameron.
    According to today’s Sunday Times, 55+ Tory MPs have already pledged to challenge Cameron’s leadership: bring it on!

    • David Lindsay

      And replace him with whom exactly? Osborne, because the economy is doing so well? Hague, a Minister at the time of Maastricht, and Foreign Secretary in the midst of the present shambles over the EU? Clarke? Who, exactly? And why, exactly? It is hardly as if they are spoiled for choice.

      • williamblakesghost

        Gove is probably the likely choice. Its clear he’s been positioning himself and unlike most of his colleagues he seems to be untainted by the coalition’s failures and does not suffer the background issues that Cameron and his mates do.

        • Boudicca_Icenii

          Owen Paterson could be a good choice.

          • David Lindsay

            Who? I’m joking, of course. But the general public wouldn’t be.

          • Justathought

            How about William Hague?

            • David Lindsay

              What about him?

        • David Lindsay

          Oh, I’d quite forgotten about him. He is one of the biggest disaster areas of the lot, and he is now almost entirely a self-parody. But he escapes scrutiny because he is one of Fleet Street’s, and especially Murdoch’s, own.

          • an ex-tory voter

            Michael Gove is seen as a disaster only by those whose political goals require that our children continue to be denied a decent education.

            • David Lindsay

              No, he is objectively the man with the non-Midas touch, and we can only be grateful that he is not allowed anywhere near the foreign policy on which he holds pretty much the most dangerous views that it is possible to imagine. (By the way, he is also in favour of same-sex “marriage”. Nor is he a recent convert to the cause. He used to argue for it, and for the legalisation of drugs, on The Moral Maze.)

              How many of Gove’s “free” schools are there, considering that covering the land with him was his party’s only policy, on any subject, at the last General Election? And how many of those are private schools which have been bailed out by the taxpayer in the recession to which this Government has returned us, there having been none in this country on the day that it came to office?

              People do not want to know. Set up your own school, indeed! I ask you! Yet for this, the entire Building Schools for the Future programme has been cancelled, with the money diverted to the vanity projects of yummy mummies with nothing else to do and, especially, of a single London journalist whom the BBC now invariably bills as an “education expert” merely because he says that he is.

              Mostly, though, Gove and his Department are just a joke, utterly beyond satire. That Department ostentatiously sends out Bibles to schools, Bibles featuring both a preface by the Secretary of State and a reference to his very person on the cover. Why not also a photograph of him? Yet this supposed bastion of Biblical values now has both David Laws and Elizabeth Truss as Ministers. Accompanied by the sleepy-headed skiver Matthew Hancock, who is being given the same fawning treatment that the same media interests previously gave to the then Louise Basgshawe.

              And now also by John Nash, who has just bought both Ministerial office
              and a seat in our very Legislature as a straight commercial transaction,
              in a direct breach of the criminal law. The police do not like this Government in the way that they liked the last one, and John Yates, the world’s most incurious detective, is no longer in post. Over to them.

              • an ex-tory voter

                Gove is succeeding and his changes are improving education for the masses. Now all we need are profit making schools and for the pupil to carry the funding with him or her. Then we will see state education challenging the public schools for the top slot.

                • David Lindsay

                  The idea of schools making a profit … well, you only need to read that over to see that no British Government would ever propose it. If Gove did, then he would be sacked. But not because of the Lib Dems, who are if anything more likely, as a party and as especially as a parliamentary party, more open to such an idea. What does that tell you about such an idea?

                  As I have already set out in strictly factual detail, Gove ought to be sacked, anyway. One failed policy, and a never-ending succession of plot lines rejected by the writers of The Thick of It, most of them merely comical, but some of them a lot worse than that.

                  However, he cannot be removed. About to come down from Oxford, he applied to the Conservative Research Department. But it rejected him as he seemed to have no political, nor any Conservative, background whatever.

                  Instead, then, he joined Murdoch, for whom he wrote drooling fan material about Tony Blair (Marxism Today writer), Alan Milburn (ex-Trot), Stephen Byers (ex-Trot) and Andrew Adonis (ex-SDP, ex-Lib Dem) long after having been adopted for a safe Conservative seat; he wanted Milburn, Byers and Adonis in a Cameron Cabinet.

                  He is now in the Cabinet, in the job for which he had wanted Adonis. But while continuing to have regular private dinners with Old Rupert. And while his wife and Cameron’s edit a church’s parish magazine together. Ah, bless.

                • Dimoto

                  Normally, the message would be – don’t feed the troll.
                  But Lindsay will just carry on spewing out his trash-talk whatever anyone else says, so …. as you were.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Sixty per cent identify themselves as working class, Lindsay? On what grounds? No through what they do surely? Or what their fathers did? Are YOU working class, Lindsay? Is an archdeacon working class? Does working class mean you don’t actually work? How many Labour apparatchiks are working class? If the British are reallly so silly then they deserve the millipede for ever. And they deserve you too.

            • David Lindsay

              They were asked, and they said that that was what they said they were. Such is the effect of both the policies and the simple existence of the present Government. A year ago, 24 per cent of people said that they were working-class. Today, it is 60 per cent.

      • Vulture

        Owen Paterson, David Davis, Michael Gove or Graham Brady would all do the job better than Cameron//
        The party you support is so ‘spoiled for choice’ that it elected Ed Miliband. LOL!

    • Coffee House the Wall

      Boris Johnson is preparing an comeback as MP for his old constituency of Henley, paving the way for him to fight a leadership election during the next parliament, under a plan being drawn up inside his camp.

      • David Lindsay

        Really? I had heard that it was Reigate.

        In fact, that was made public in the run-up to the last London Mayoral Election, meaning that he had and has no intention of serving a full term.

        Needless to say, his pet media, including his complete monopoly of the London freesheets, ignored that gigantic story completely, and continue to do so.

        But wherever it is, the key fact is that he will get back into Parliament right as his party begins 15, or possibly 20, years in Opposition.

        • Samuel Pepys

          You’ll find that the poster with the in coherent user name ‘coffee house the wall’ is just telemachus mucking about.

          • David Lindsay

            Then he speaks a lot more truth than he knows.

    • barbie

      He’s not ‘damaged goods’ he made a mistake, but he didn’t steal or give secrets away, some have done more serious things. Cameron should be challenged his way of thinking is against this nation and what it’s demanding. The will of the people decide the laws of the nation.

    • Dimoto

      Yes, but what does Adam Werritty think ?