Coffee House

David Cameron’s delayed EU speech: extracts

18 January 2013

9:34 AM

18 January 2013

9:34 AM

By the time the Prime Minister cancelled his Europe speech yesterday evening, extracts had already been briefed to journalists. A new date has yet to be announced, but here are the extracts that have been released:

Britain should play an active part in Europe:

‘I want to speak to you today with urgency and frankness about the European Union and how it must change – both to deliver prosperity and to retain the support of its peoples.

‘I come here as British Prime Minister with a positive vision for the future of the European Union. A future in which Britain wants, and should want, to play a committed and active part.’

Now is the time for change:

‘Why raise fundamental questions about the future of Europe when Europe is already in the midst of a deep crisis? Why raise questions about Britain’s role when support in Britain is already so thin?

‘There are always voices saying “don’t ask the difficult questions”. But it’s essential for Europe – and for Britain – that we do because there are three major challenges confronting us today.


‘First, the problems in the Eurozone are driving fundamental change in Europe.

‘Second, there is a crisis of European competitiveness, as other nations across the world soar ahead.

‘And third, there is a gap between the EU and its citizens which has grown dramatically in recent years and which represents a lack of democratic accountability and consent that is – yes – felt particularly acutely in Britain.

‘If we don’t address these challenges, the danger is that Europe will fail and the British people will drift towards the exit.

‘I do not want that to happen. I want the European Union to be a success and I want a relationship between Britain and the EU that keeps us in it.

‘That is why I am here today: To acknowledge the nature of the challenges we face. To set out how I believe the European Union should respond to them. And to explain what I want to achieve for Britain and its place within the European Union.’

His frustration with the EU:

‘There is a growing frustration that the EU is seen as something that is done to people rather than acting on their behalf. And this is being intensified by the very solutions required to resolve the economic problems. People are increasingly frustrated that decisions taken further and further away from them mean their living standards are slashed through enforced austerity or their taxes are used to bail out governments on the other side of the continent.

‘And yes, of course, we are seeing this frustration with the EU very dramatically in Britain. Europe’s leaders have a duty to hear these concerns. And we have a duty to act on them.’

Avoiding change will weaken EU countries:

‘My point is this. More of the same will not secure a long-term future for the Eurozone. More of the same will not see the European Union keeping pace with the new powerhouse economies. More of the same will not bring the European Union any closer to its citizens. More of the same will just produce more of the same – less competitiveness, less growth, fewer jobs. And that will make our countries weaker not stronger.’

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Show comments
  • global city

    The Eurozone should renconstitute itself as the United States of Europe, taking all of the present EU structure, treaties (and obligations) and institutions with it. This should be done after serious consideration and negotiation about who will constitute this group from the current national members. Once everyone is happy and able to confirm their status the new entity comes into being.

    Membership of the USE would be open immediately to the 11 members (Croatia is joining the EU in July) to individually join if they wish.

    Those who decide to not join the new country (USE) would default to EFTA membership. These could negotiate their membership of the EEA if they wish for a closer relationship than EFTA would offer, as the main point about EFTA would be that it would by constitution restrict it’s remit to intergovernmental trade issues amongst the members, with decisions based on unanimity. This would be a free trade area between the members, but would leave individual members to negotiate bilateral free trade deals. If desired EFTA could also negotiate group free trade agreements.

    The new USE would be invited to join EFTA . This would be on a single representative basis, giving all members equal voting parity.

    ALL treaty obligations and EU law accrued during membership would become nul and void with immediate effect from the date of seperation and institution of the USE, though governments could leave them in place until new/alternative legislation was passed through parliament.

    All other EU based partnership activities (from defence to ECJ case law precident?) would cease to be binding. Only agreements specifically agreed on a government to government basis that renewed specific activities would continue. The presumption would be that unless specifically renewed all European based initiatives would end.

    This would create clear ground and leave no room for confusion and legal redress based on old treaties.

    All international agreements made by the EU that obliged the UK would also become nul and void, as the entity that agreed them would no longer exist. How these initiatives could be renewed would form an important part of the first session of parliament of our newly liberated and independent parliament.
    Cut and paste as you like but the basic thing would be that we would be free.

  • Blazenka Hudson-trograncic

    Very sensible, the EU needs to improve, no more giant corrupt ‘grand project’ but a hard working community with prosperity and responsible freedom for citizens. An acknowledgement of the history and Christian heritage as well.

  • David Webb

    More of the same – well that’s all we get from the Conservatives.

  • williamblakesghost

    The thing is the countries of Europe don’t need to be chained to the dead weight of the European Union to achieve everything that Cameron wants. It is a bureaucracy which is surplus to requirements and duplicating the work that national governments do.

    If it was a department in a business during times of financial hardship it would be scrapped by now because it provides no added value. The EU is just a drain on resources much needed elsewhere. Why Cameron persists in defending it just shows what an establishment stooge he is.

  • Alan Eastwood

    Why Cameron has to go to another country to deliver this speech is beyond me. IT is about OUR relations with the EU and should be made to a British Audience in Britain. Prefereably the South West where he would get a really hard time.
    An invitation from Bodmin or Truro, Barnstaple or Exeter for him to deliver his speech there would be a wonderful way of getting this cowardly custard to actually face the people he is trying to ignore.
    But that would take balls and Cameron has not got any. Instead he prefers to take his orders from Obama, Merkel and anyone else who is not British.

  • Daniel Maris

    His analysis is not bad but lacks detail and the correct conclusions.

    “First, the problems in the Eurozone are driving fundamental change in Europe.”

    True. But it is in the direction of a unified federal state. Even if the UK stays outside the Eurozone, that does not mean it is not affected by the process. Clearly whatever is decided in the Eurozone now will effectively become EU policy. The UK’s influence is declining at a rate. We only influence what Germany wants us to influence.

    “Second, there is a crisis of European competitiveness, as other nations across the world soar ahead.”

    True. But how should Europe respond? Is it really credible to think we can beat all these new emerging nations, some without welfare systems? Do we really want to abolish welfare provision and a free health service or accept further huge wage cuts in order to be able to compete? I don’t think so. So chasing the dragon of competitiveness is for me a ludicrous and suicidal policy. Europe, a rich market of 500 million people can afford to have a controlled trade policy with the rest of the world. End free trade now – protect our economies.

    “And third, there is a gap between the EU and its citizens which has
    grown dramatically in recent years and which represents a lack of
    democratic accountability and consent that is – yes – felt particularly
    acutely in Britain.”

    Yes, this has always been the problem. There are only two real solutions: one is the Eurofanatic solution of pressing ahead to full union. The other is withdrawal from the EU, What we have at the moment is the democratic deficit where most of our laws are decided in a labyrinthine structure of government that is mostly unelected and is certainly incomprehensible, to all but the best-paid lobbyists work for big business and special interest groups.

  • UKIP for change

    This speech has been delayed so many time’s it’s getting silly.looking at leaked parts of it on this blog and others,only one party will be happy UKIP.It is the same verbal
    diarrhea we have had on the EU from our so called leaders for years.

    No wonder Cameron is trying to make sure UKIP are not allowed to take part in the leadership debates.Brown trousers Dave,brown trousers!

    • 2trueblue

      It comes as no surprise to anybody because there are no UKIP MPs why would they be included in debates?

      • milliboot

        I dont think people are aware that UKIP have no MPs, which shows how deeply they have investigated the party ! saying you will vote for them has become a knee jerk reaction to everything !

        • 2trueblue

          Well, when we get another Liebore government elected on the back of the UKIPers pushing other real parties out, but not actually gaining many, if any seats, we can all enjoy skipping forward to the reality of that lack of knowledge.

  • UKIP for change

    So Cameron has postponed his speech.

    Did ‘premier league money’ Dave,stop riding Rebecca Brooks horse on the days that British troops died in Afghanistan?

    • Chris lancashire

      That comment is as tasteless as it is stupid.

      • UKIP for change

        You know the saying ‘don’t put off till tomorrow what you could do today’ Well Cameron has put this speech off for months.Cancelled it at least three time’s that we know of.And we all know why,UKIP.

    • milliboot

      I dont get your point ? did Nigel stop drinking ? we should be told !

  • Tom Tom

    Glib. Cann’t he find someone who can write cogently and with tight prose ? Where did real education go ? This is Soap Opera Dialogue

  • 2trueblue

    Vote UKIP, get Liebore, or another coalition between Millipede and Cleggy. What a solution. Must try harder.

    • Michele Keighley

      If indeed you are TrueBlue you had better get a word into the shell-like ears of your local branch. I have voted Tory the whole of my life but I am leaving; I am doing so because I no longer believe that the party has any interest in the opinions of the members; So I’m off to UKIP and so what if it brings in a Labour Government, there is not a damn thing to chose between them. Get in step with the members or get out of the way.

      • Chris lancashire

        “There’s not a damn thing to choose between them” – what a very short memory you have – 13 years of pro-EU policy, overspending, overtaxing, meddling, unnecessary legislation and infighting that makes Con v Lib look like a bunfight. And make no mistake, voting UKIP will get Labour and it would be complete rerun of that nightmare 13 years including the backstabbing, Brown on Blair would have nothing on Balls on Miliband. And when he’s successful just think of life under PM Balls.

        • Free, Independent UK

          If we carry on voting for mainstream parties, we’re not going to get anywhere pal – just more loss of sovereignty to the EU. It’s inevitable. It’s a long game. That much should be obvious.

          • Chris lancashire

            I’m not your pal.

          • Fergus Pickering

            How long is long? Five years of the millipede seems long to me. Have you LISTENED to him? .

            • 2trueblue

              Ah well, they can all continue to listen to the BBC telling them how well Milliped is doing… the great illusion.

          • 2trueblue

            I hope you are young enough to be able to work your way through the mess they will deliver for you and yours. I have no intention of being so careless with the future for my family.

          • Wessex Man

            You are correct, the fear of letting labour back in will see disgruntled Tory members still voting Tory, still seeing Labour back in then God help us!

        • an ex-tory voter

          You don’t scare me, there is nothing to choose between Cameron, Clegg and Milliband.

          • Chris lancashire

            Thank you for that insightful analysis of the present political scene.

          • 2trueblue

            When you get your reality of Liebore in power again you/we will find out how real the difference is, enjoy.

        • williamblakesghost

          “There’s not a damn thing to choose between them” – what a very short memory you have – 13 years of pro-EU policy, overspending, overtaxing, meddling, unnecessary legislation and infighting that makes Con v Lib look like a bunfight.

          And you seem to have an even shorter memory

          Who was it who led the applause when Blair left Parliament? The problem you have is that the Cameroon answer is to mimic those 13 years at every opportunity. Lets just stop for a moment consider what Cameron and his coalition have done

          pro-EU policy, :supporting the financial unification of the EU (the effective completion of the European project), denouncing withdrawal no matter what, whilst repeatedly emphasising his commitment to continue to see the UK taking an active and committed part. Not forgetting many billions over and above our normal contributions to keep the whole thing afloat.

          overspendingThis government is projected to add £600 billion in additional debt in 5 years (so much for austerity). A new record I believe?

          , overtaxing Well the VAT rise certainly wasn’t a cut in taxes even though there were ‘no plans’ for it and of course the use of inflationary policies (energy, minimum alcohol pricing etc) have a knock on benefit for tax revenus.

          ,meddling, unnecessary legislation snoopers charter, secret courts, minimum alcohol pricing etc etc etc

          and infighting Which party holds the record for the biggest rebellions against their own Government? I believe it is this one over the HoL reform and Europe and thats not to mention the weekly spats between coalition parties. I doubt there has been a more divided government since 1945.

          You can continue to delude yourself all you like that it is all UKIP’s fault but UKIP have done very little Almost all the running has been done by the Conservatives and particularly Cameron and his stooges. Its as if he doesn’t want those people supporting his party. After all, they are ‘odd’, ‘fruitcakes’ and ‘closet rascists’ and clearly the modern Conservative Party just don’t do such people anymore.

          Much better the party is filled with the likes of Louise Mensch. Oh wait a minute…..

        • 2trueblue

          It will in fact be worse. The fact is they ran the most corrupt parliament, and had the biggest majority which they could have used to build a better country and society. They stole the future and now the short sighted want to give them another opportunity to finish wrecking what is left. Wonderful. The rabble are fixated on rubbishing Cameron, and truely the blog is losing sight of reality. Vote UKIP and we are well and truely stuffed. They have nothing to offer, no infrastructure, just rhetoric.

      • an ex-tory voter

        Perfectly put.

      • 2trueblue

        I have seen nothing that will make me move totally. I will vote UKIP in the EU elections. When we get the next Liebore government just remember that in 13yrs they did not give us the referendum they promised, they left us broke, and they moved everything down to the lowest level. They made it easy to borrow so people who borrowed on the back of the illusion that their properties would provide a great lifestyle later, learned that it was just that. an illusion. I prefer reality.

        Farage had an opportunity to let us have some answers last night on question time and he stayed very quiet.

    • williamblakesghost

      Vote Conservative get Coalition nightmare……

  • Nigel Jones

    So Cameron rejects ‘ever closer union’ does he?
    In that case he rejects the EU whose foundation stone ecu is. It is a political prject to build an undemocratic superstate and has been from day one.
    The British elite from Macmillan and Heath onwards have always known this and lied to the British people.
    Cameron is the latest liar in a long line of them.
    This undelivered speech is just more weasel words from Cameron which do not contain a single good reason why Britain should remain within this corrupt, undemocratic monstrosity.
    UKIP – for all their flaws – are the only party which tells the truth about Europe.
    And note to Obama: the US does not rule Britain so keep your nose out of our affairs.

    • 2trueblue

      Farage was very quiet last night on Question Time which frankly was an opportunity wasted to show us where he could take us. I thought he looked very uncomfortable which is worrying. He did not elucidate on items where he could have gained some credibility, not impressed.

      • Daniel Maris

        I thought he performed very well. Robust and very focussed. The problem for UKIP is whether they have any other people to connect with the British people.

        • 2trueblue

          What was he focused on? He actually contributed very little.

          • Daniel Maris

            We must have been watching different programmes. It was basically him against the rest wasn’t it? That Mary Beard was dafter than I expected her to be. How arrogant she was in dismissing the concerns of Bostonians.

            • 2trueblue

              On Farage I think he could have done better, I was disappointed. He had an open goal goal when the ‘new Europe’ man (business for new Europe, or whatever said they would not take our cars he offered no challenge. They export huge amounts of cars to us and it would be suicidal for them to refuse ours… much smaller number.

              Mary Beard, typical academic, out of date, arrogant, unconnected, uninformed, and totally lacking in the reality of what is happening in Boston. Reminds me of something that Liebore party would spout out, and not interested in the reality of what the people are enduring, or a solution, or how it actually happened.

              I thought the young woman was very clear, articulate, and measured.

              • Wessex Man

                So did I, it never fails to amaze me how theses very wacky, close to mad people like Mary Beard are allowed on to a programme like Question Time. The way she was prepared to jump at the young lady from Boston tells us all we need to know about her. The picture painted by the lady from Boston is the same in every Market Town throughout the country.

                • 2trueblue

                  Just think, They are also allowed in our lecture halls. Worrying.

  • Magnolia

    He talks about the EU and its peoples.
    He should ditch that and talk about the peoples of Europe or the people of Britain for that matter. The word people did very well for Mr Tony.
    It would align him with the electorate and with the whole mass of human kind in Europe rather than with those who support the undemocratic, socialist construct of the EU.
    He can get some differentiation from Labour here because Ed M has ruled out giving the people a say (because he knows best how to control the economy?) and because Ed keeps on talking about his One Nation Labour, which is going to sound very silly when the Scots leave, and by its nature transfers over in the mind easily in to One Nation Europe as well.
    I don’t think the peoples of Britain will like that but to win them over Dave will have to come off the fence and give us a referendem to retain any credibility after the broken promises.
    He pretty much acknowledged that in his recent R4 Today interview.

  • LB

    yackity yackity yackity.

    What about the referenda you promised?

    Not a word.

    So Cameron lies to get elected and then sticks two fingers at the electorate.

    So he’s happy to have a go at the EU for a democratic deficit, but not prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

    He’s a liar. Pure and simple.

    Ditto Clegg

    Ditto Milliband

    • Fergus Pickering

      Politicians tell lies. Good Lord, can that be true? Why do they tell lies? Because the electorate don’t want to face the truth and want to be told we can eat our cake and have it. The Coalition may lose in 2015 not because they told lies but because they told the truth. Does UKIP tell lies? Of course it does.If we come out of the EU will we have to pay large sums to enjoy some sort of level playing field. Of course we will. Norway does. Switzerlnd does. Does the BNP tell lies? Certainly. They say they are not racist, do they not? Did the good Baroness tell lies? I seem to remember the Belgrano steaming now which way was it? Did Churchill tell lies? Abso-bloody-lutely. If he had told the unvarnished truth we would probably have surrendered in 1940. Stop being childish.

      • LB

        Carry on being the victim.

        Here’s the biggest lie of all.

        The state has debts of 1,100 bn,

        Look at the bottom of page 4. 5,010 bn owed for the state pension. Not on the books. [A more up to date figure, 5,300 bn]

        That ignores the 144 a week promise. That’s another 1,500 bn of debt.

        So why am I childish for being concerned about the lies?

        Because its a fraud. No doubt you’re the sort of person who would walk past someone injured in the street.

        • David B

          Most countries in what we call the west are bankrupt (insolvent). The UK, USA and most EU countries have used national accounting policies that would make Enron directors blush to ensure liabilities hare held of the national balance sheet – There are not just pensions, there are welfare entitlements, future health care provision, bank bail outs, etc.

          • LB

            Quite. Now if you only consider liabilities under GAAP, or FRS17, its 7,000 bn in the UK. Pretty much 6,000 bn of those are inflation linked.

            That ignores welfare, the NHS, etc.

            Now on tax revenues of 550 bn, spending of 700 bn, its not a rocket scientist qualification to see they are bankrupt. After all, they don’t have assets to sell, or assets that generate income (unless slavery is an option)

            That’s the big lie. 30 bn losses on banks, when you’ve taxed then 35 bn in penal interest is a profit. Add on the other taxes, and the state is still the winner from the banks, at the expense of the customer or shareholder.

            • Tom Tom

              Banks have lost much more than £30 billion for the taxpayer. You ignore the lost output and the fact that GDP growth is on a flatter trend curve ie stagnant. British growth since 2008 is far lower than competitor economies BECAUSE Brown gave the Banks they keys to the Treasury. It is much much more than £30 billion – more like 7 years to get back to 2008 levels –

              • LB

                No doubt you will be blaming the banks for causing a bubble.

                If its a bubble, the growth was an illusion.

                On the recovery, I think you’ve underestimated the length. 7-8 years is about the time for a recovery from a banking crisis in one country. With the widespread nature, its going to be longer.

                However, I think you will find, that even extending it won’t solve it, because the fundamental problem isn’t a banking one. It’s a problem with government.

                Since 2008, the state has take 35 bn in interest, as a profit. It applied penal rates of interest to the banks. One reason for the slow growth. It’s increase capital requirements. Since there’s no new money, and capital itself is now subject to a tax, lending has to come down. It comes down as a multiple of the reduction in capital from the taxation. 10 fold [Or whatever the prevailing capital ratio is]. As losses are booked on the accounts, that’s another multiple off the lending.

                Look at the level of liquidity loans (there were loans, not cash for most banks bar the privatised ones). They are drastically reduced.

                Browns mistake was he learned his lesson from his gold fiasco. There he sold low. Next time, you can see him thinking. If I sold low, and lost, I must buy high to make a profit.

                So 30 bn lossed on shares. 35 bn profit on loans. 220 bn in taxes over 4 years. The state is milking the banks. Hence no lending, low growth.

                On top, there’s the herd of elephants in the room. The banks are just a single gnat in comparison. The state is geared 1400% of income with no assets, and a 130% of income spending habit.

                That’s the herd of elephants. Banks are just a single gnat in the scale of problems and causes for the mess.

                [PS the real cause was people not paying their debts. The same will happen with governments. They won’t pay]

      • Tom Tom

        The Coalition tells lies. They have run away from the truth and continue to divert household wealth into the Banks. The real economy is being sucked dry to fund Banks. Banks are funding Corporate BTL Funds driving up house prices yet starving individual buyyers of funds. When the next Banking Crash comes
        – and it will not be long – it will be time to hang bankers and puppet politicians

        • LB

          You’ve been conned. It’s a diversion. A distraction from the big problem.

          30 bn in losses on the banks, a negative.
          35 bn in profits on the loans, a positive.
          Overall, the government’s made a profit.
          That ignores all the other taxes.

          Meanwhile, they don’t want to talk about their little secret. False accounting over the pensions.

          If you think the banking mess is bad, wait until you don’t get a pension.

          • Tom Tom

            Sorry. £30 billion is a joke. Lloyds Bank alone has written off more than £10 billion as a result of HBOS which had £24 billion in Bad Debts and RBS had £42 billion. Then go look at Barclays and HSBC and how little Equity they have relative to Assets – Equity is c. 7%

          • Daniel Maris

            I think you’re the only doing the false accounting on pensions. You count future liabilities as debt even when those future liabilities are being covered by payments in the here and now. And remember the whole of the public sector is being slimmed down very significantly by about 10-15% in terms of staffing and a lot of outsourcing is taking place. People may be living longer but that is being balanced by the reduction in demands on the system.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Yes I am all for hanging bankers and politicians. But do you want to hang them ALL? Who will manage the banks and make the laws when all the bankers and politicians are hanged. Will YOU do it?

      • an ex-tory voter

        Despite paying large sums(?) for access to the single market, Norway and Switzerland are I believe the two richest (per capita) countries in Europe. What’s to fear? In any case the cost of access will be more than offset by our not having to make payments into the EU coffers and a massive net gain achieved by our not having to comply with EU regulations on our exprts to the rest of the world.

        • Fergus Pickering

          You are probably right. I was saying that UKIP will not admit hat the money must be paid. I would pay it and get out, but that was not the point of my post which was that politicians lie because the public wants them to. Truth telling gains no votes. Lies are a part of democracy.

          • an ex-tory voter

            I must admit I agree with you on politicians lies. The truth is the public gets the government it deserves. But, it can be changed by a charismatic politician having the principle and backbone to stand up and tell the truth. In the end the truth will out and the man or woman seen to have been telling the truth, despite being labelled a racist or loony tune will be political dynamite.

  • John_Page


  • Boudicca_Icenii

    And more of the same LibLabCON will make no difference in the UK either.
    The 3 old parties – who between them facilitated the imposition of the EU on the British people – will not ‘solve the problem’ the British people have with the EU.
    THEY want us IN …. and increasingly, we want OUT. We never voted to join a Political Union – all we ever wanted was free trade, and we didn’t even get that.
    Whatever Cameron (eventually) says, I’m sticking with UKIP. We need an effective Opposition to LibLabCON and UKIP is the best chance we have of getting one.

    • MirthaTidville

      UKIP is now the only voice and chance we have..

      • HooksLaw

        Cobblers – UKIP will not even admit the truth – that being out the EU would still mean a deal to gain access to the single market and compliance with EU rules.
        The result of voting UKIP is to present the next election to a pro EU labour party. Your suggestion is infantile.

        • Boudicca_Icenii

          Article 50 of the Lisbon Treachery REQUIRES both the EU and the seceding nation to negotiate a Trade Treaty. I’m sure the EU will work out that as they sell far to to us than vice versa, it is in their own interests to do a sensible deal.

          • dalai guevara

            This ‘they sell us more than we sell them’ is such a weak argument as it is not an argument of principle, but an argument of short term fact.

            Who says this is an irreversible fact? Would you take an opposing view if it was the other way round?

        • Chris lancashire

          Entirely correct, vote UKIP get (pro-Euro) Labour.

          • echo34

            Vote conservative get pro-euro tories – touche.

            • Chris lancashire

              Maybe so echo but that’s your choice – UKIP isn’t one of them for a government.

              • echo34

                The same could and probably was said of the Labour movement in the 1920s Chris.

                • Chris lancashire

                  Dream on.

                • Tom Tom

                  Yes but they had the Liberals propping them up

              • an ex-tory voter

                Task 1 drive the europhiles from within the Tory Party, Task 2 create a credible eurosceptic opposition. Leaving Milliband to flounder around in his own sh-t. Task 3 install a Eurosceptic government.

                Milliband’s probable occupation of Downing St is a medium term irritation, but more importantly it is irrelevant.

                • 2trueblue

                  Meanwhile, in the medium time our country will be totally ruined.

        • DaveL

          80% of our economy which is within the UK won’t have to wrestle with EU red tape. Reducing the regulatory burden on businesses by just 10% would save British businesses around £11 billion a year. This would be equivalent to cutting both corporation tax and the small profit rate by a a huge 8%.

          *Stop* scaremongering about a “pro EU Labour party” getting in if people vote UKIP. We already have two pro EU parties in government. I believe the Tories imploded on Europe last time because they made the wrong decision. It looks like they may make the wrong decision again. History repeats itself until politicians put the power (via referenda and maybe direct democracy) back into the hands of the people.

          • Tom Tom

            PRIVY COUNCIL RULES – ALL Politicians on the Front Bench and some Backbenchers are Members of The Privy Council which prevents proper discussion of issues

        • Free, Independent Britain

          I thought the Tories were pro EU, but for a few backbenchers.

        • Tom Tom

          There would not be an EU without Britain – the Single Market is a joke. It has been used to impose gay marriage and equalisation of insurance but has not really had an impact on traded goods. Public Procurement in most EU countries is still in favour of local suppliers except in UK and tax policies are still national with major compliance costs – even Christmas Market traders must file in each EU country where they host Christmas Markets and cannot reclaim VAT on cost of erecting stands

          • Tom Tom

            Whatever I write I get Hooks Law negative vote which is so damned reassuring !

        • williamblakesghost

          The result of voting UKIP is to present the next election to a pro EU labour party.

          David Cameron entering into coalition with the Liberal Democrats did that long before UKIP began to rise. Unifying the left behind Miliband and splitting the right was a masterpiece of strategic political thinking. Then deserting their traditional political ground on the right of centre for a tiny bit of worthless real estate in the centre ground somewhere between Notting Hill and Islington was priceless. I bet they thought let’s open up political battles on two fronts (both left and right) simultaneously. That will really help! Cammo and Ossie must be ecstatically proud (that they are the village idiots of poltical strategy)!

          Understand this once and for all the Conservative Party needs to drop this moronic and arrogant idea that somehow they have some divine right to be voted for by everyone on the right of centre no matter how they behave. Currently the Tories are the most flakey, divided, untrustworthy, inconsistence, incoherent, contradictory left leaning party there is. Why would anyone on the right want to vote for them? Get it through your thick skull nobody owes the Conservative party their vote and if that means the Conservatives lose the next election because their product is garbage that is their fault not all those in the electorate who don’t vote for them!

          Can there be a more moronic pathetic, infantile and contempt deserving excuse than ‘We didn’t win because that lot didn’t vote for us’

          Shish! It’s an imbecilic argument!

        • Daniel Maris

          This is nonsense. Wherever you trade you have to obey the laws of the country you are trading with. The idea that the UK can’t come to a sensible agreement with the EU is not credible. The vast bulk of EU regulations are perfectly sensible and would be adopted by us as an independent nation.

        • global city

          Do you still not understand this absolutely vital point?
          We have to conform, or rather firms that wish to trade in the EU, would have to conform, but nobody else would. Not those selling to other parts of the world (they have to conform to THEIR customer’s rules) or purely internal trade.
          Also, check out what a customs union is as opposed to a free trade area, as this is also a common mistake made.

      • Fergus Pickering

        We’re done for then. I wouldn’t trust UKIP to run an office party. They have Nigel. They have the excellent Marta. Except they are throwing her out because she’s not crazy enough.

    • LB

      It’s far simpler.

      They want the money the UK suppliers, and the jobs it provides for their unemployed.

      However, they aren’t prepared to allow the UK voter a choice, and Cameron/Clegg/Milliband are just the same.

      They aren’t prepared to say thank you either.

    • EJ – was Tory now UKIP

      Oh dear Mr Cameron. Exactly as predicted. Your days are numbered.

      For the very fact alone that we will soon be besieged by heaven knows how may Bulgarians and Romanians, we urgently need to take back control of our borders. But we cannot. How much more can this desperately overcrowded island take?

      For the very fact alone that our national sovereignty was given away without our permission by those who benefited financially from doing so, we need to claim back our right to be governed by shysters we elect here – not the faceless unelected shysters in Brussels.

      And for the very fact that we are hemorrhaging our money down the EU drain we need to bring an end this madness now.

      Cameron’s speech will satisfy no one and drive patriotic conservatives straight into the welcoming arms of UKIP. Electing Cameron as leader was the biggest mistake the Tory Party ever made and it will result in their ruination.

    • David Barnett

      Vote LibLabCon.