Coffee House

What would Thatcher do if she was in power now?

1 December 2012

3:41 PM

1 December 2012

3:41 PM

It is testament to Margaret Thatcher’s remarkable influence on British politics that 33 years after she won her first general election victory she still has such a hold on our political discourse. One of the things that the Tory party needs to do is understand both why Thatcher was so successful and how she changed Britain. In an interview with The Spectator this week, Elizabeth Truss, the new education minister who proudly describes herself as a ‘bit of a Thatcherite’, offers an interesting take on the question.

Truss argues that ‘what Mrs Thatcher did in the 80s was unleash a lot of forces by things like freeing up credit; getting people more involved in ownership of businesses, shareholding; enabling people to make and earn money; and keep more of their own money. All of those things created a more socially mobile and socially liberal society. Then what had happened by the mid-90s is the Conservatives were out of step with the social feelings of the country so when Blair came in and introduced things like civil partnerships actually the British people were ready for that. But we hadn’t fully realised, as a party, that change in society that, in fact, we had unleashed.’

[Alt-Text]


As Thatcher was, Truss is a working mother in politics. She is adamant that more must be done, partly through the deregulation of childcare, to enable those mothers who want to go back to work to do so. She says, ‘If those who want to go out to work did, they’d contribute about £6 billion to the economy. There’s a big economic prize to be had.’ Truss claims, convincingly, that this is one of the things that a Thatcherite should be doing today.

I think that Truss is on to something here. The modernisers were undoubtedly right that the Tory offer needed to be broadened. But what they too often failed to do was to apply rigorous Tory thinking to these new areas of policy. Truss is trying to achieve that fusion. It is something that makes her a politician well worth watching.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • TomTom

    Which party will Liz Truss stand for in 2015 ? At 29% poll rating being a Conservative won’t do her career much good nor will the MP for Cities & Westminster

  • http://www.facebook.com/jama.a.mohammed Jama A Mohammed

    Bow down to ED Miliband

  • http://twitter.com/IANPYKE IAN PYKE

    Too many rose coloured specs. Thatcher consigned thousands to the dole queue because she had to beat the unions come hell or high water. Created the me, me, me attitude so prevalent in today’s society, wasted much of Britains oil money financing the dole queues. Decimated the manufacturing base of the UK, foolishly thought that foreign investment was all we needed, and fostered the belief that we didn’t need manufacturing as we could rely on the yuppies in the city to bring in the money, with their legalised gambling. Oh did I mention her and Major selling off the family silver as well. She is a major contributor to why this country is in the mess it is now. Yes we have bad government and even worse opposition since her time, but lets take off the rose coloured specs please.

    • Curnonsky

      You’re confused – it was Brown who sold off the family gold, not silver.

  • Mr Done

    Who is this dreadful Telemacho troll? His one sided views suggest he’s an apparatchik of the far left. There is neither reasoning nor balance in his views….just Yah Boo Sucks commentary. Is he lonely, afflicted or, just a sad git? We may never know but his commentary is less than enlightening.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Welcome to the Coffee House. He has been sloganeering here on behalf of the collective Left for some time. A one time marching comrade of Tariq Ali, a founder member of the SDP, an advocate for Common Purpose, a “one nation conservative” (would you believe) and an admirer of Stalin who believes that UKIP should be destroyed by “trumped up charges”. His diversity and love of multi-culturalism does not extend to the Japanese, about whom he is disgustingly bigoted and racist.

  • Theodoxia

    If I were in power, I would restore the use of the subjunctive.

  • Theodoxia

    If I were in power, I would restore the use of the subjunctive.

  • http://www.facebook.com/anthony.gerard.900 Anthony Gerard

    I just googled Liz Truss and came up with the following from The Daily Mail :

    Elizabeth Truss
    has had an affair with frontbench Tory Mark Field, 41. Although the affair is
    now over, The Mail reports that Mr Field is divorcing his wife.

    Not very Thatcherite, is it ?

  • http://www.facebook.com/anthony.gerard.900 Anthony Gerard

    Who the hell is Elizabeth Truss ? A non entity who may become Louise Mensch Part 2.

  • http://elfnhappiness.blogspot.com/ eeore

    Truss has a very poor reputation locally.

  • Julian Kavanagh

    James, I am a little concerned that you (and many of the commenters on here) have nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon than post a blog that could easily have waited until Monday. The post is very interesting but i do think I’d trust your judgement about politics and its effect on us voters even more if I knew this afternoon you were in the pub watching the rugby or football or had gone to a gallery or were buying your Christmas tree or looking after your kids (or someone else’s if you don’t have them). As CLR James didn’t say, ‘what do they know of politics who only politics know.’

    As for me…my excuse for posting on a Saturday evening is a four week old baby!

  • David Lindsay

    There was a huge turnover of MPs in 2010.

    On the Labour side, that brought in numerous of the sort of quietly impressive people who would normally have come second in the selection process, beaten by the Westminster Village golden boys and their girlfriends. But that lot decided to sit out this Parliament, since Opposition was beneath them. Well, they are going to be sitting out for a very long time, then, and not only in Opposition.

    On the Conservative side, however, it brought in Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Elizabeth Truss, to name but a few. People who believe that rail fares could be cut by cutting benefits and by introducing third class tickets for standing only. That the British are unemployable idlers. And that Boris Johnson should be Prime
    Minister. Among so very much else besides. All in the same Blairite, Murdoch vein.

    Even before Britannia Unchained, Skidmore stood no chance of holding his seat in 2015. But he is interesting as a kind of token figure among that book’s authors, a white, public school Tory active in the C of E. The rest recall the founders of neoconservatism.

    Truss is a very recent liberal (indeed, Liberal) Leftist, doubtless as anti-monarchy and as anti-marriage as ever, and in that case correctly identifying neoliberal economics and neoconservative geopolitics as serving her constitutional and social agenda perfectly.

    Several other recent promotions within the Blues rather than the Yellows are similar: an assisted suicide enthusiast who came up through the NUS and the SDP; people who both joined and left the Labour Party long after I did, which means that they were still in it well into the last Parliament; and so on. Scoop Jackson lives.

    The rest of the Britannia Unchained authors are people from profoundly privileged backgrounds who nevertheless identify as ethnic outsiders waging war against the British equivalents, and even relatives, of the upper-crust WASP Republicans who never let them into their fraternities or their country clubs. They loathe Burkeanism and Anglophilia as much as any signatory to the PNAC ever did.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …how are they on infanticide?

      • David Lindsay

        Oh, they’d probably make it compulsory for undesirable types.

        They are like the neocons in the US.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …so they’d be like the rest of you lefty infanticidals?

          • David Lindsay

            You are thinking of Mitt Romney. Although why anyone still does, I have no idea.

            The last Leader of a British party to have been totally pro-life was John Smith. But Gordon Brown was, and is, very opposed to assisted suicide.

            Thatcher was almost psychotically pro-abortion, legalising it up to birth under three of the four circumstances in which, with her strong support as a youngish MP, it had ever been legalised in the first place. Catholic and other Labour MPs fought her tooth and nail, but she had a gigantic majority.

            She was like Reagan, of course, who had legalised abortion in California. Legalisation in New York was also by a Republican, with very strong (mostly Irish and Italian Catholic) Democratic opposition. He went on to become a Republican Vice-President.

            Neither party has put up a totally pro-life Presidential ticket since the Dems in 1968, and every GOP one has been headed by a supporter of abortion, culminating, so far, in 2012 with an abortion profiteer as the Presidential candidate.

            Of course, you know all of this.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              I know that you love Obama and Biden, the 2 infanticidal zealots, who relish the slaughter of innocents, just as all you leftists do.

              • David Lindsay

                You are thinking of your own attitude to Thatcher and Reagan, one of whom legalised abortion up to birth in Britain, while the other did so in California. He never put a pro-lifer on the Supreme Court once he became President, despite being given three chances to do so. Three.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  I’m still curious as to how you claim to be a “conservative”, even as you give fealty to the infanticidal zealots Obama and Biden.

                  Can you explain that? Leave off the pills and drink, and give it a shot.

            • Curnonsky

              I hesitate to encourage trolls, but this character Lindsay has been repeating the same bizarre charge against Romney and the Republicans for so long that some might think it has some origin in fact.

              The American pro-abortion, or “pro-choice” movement as it is known, is so firmly entrenched into the Democratic Party that the president of Planned Parenthood (which is by far the largest provider of abortions in the United States) was a featured speaker at the last Democratic National Convention. Obama himself is without doubt the most dogmatic supporter of abortion ever to hold the office of president – he has an unblemished record of voting against every restriction on abortion that has come his way.

              And Joe Biden’s alleged personal opposition to abortion (which somehow can never be translated into any sort of concrete policy) was nothing more than an election ploy designed to win over his special constituency of white ethnic Catholics. If Joe had been told to espouse cannibalism or bestiality he would have gladly done so, just to keep his job.

              In the United States, anyway, abortion is a pet cause of the Left despite Lindsay’s assertions to the contrary. I suggest he sticks to obscure corners of ecclesiastical history and uncovering Israelite plots against the Empire.

              • David Lindsay

                You lost. Get over it. Your abortion-profiteering candidate, who changed the law in Massachusetts in that financial interest of his, lost. Thank goodness for that. But you on the Republican Right never liked him, anyway. So what made you think that anyone else would?

              • the viceroy’s gin

                Yes, abortion is basically a religious sacrament to the Left, just as it appears to be with this lefty character here in this discussion topic.

                By the way, Biden tried translating his pro abortion policy a few years back, and attempted to grant himself approval from Catholic Church doctrine. Several dozen bishops, generally quiet as long as politicians don’t play cleric, decided to slap down the ghoulish old drunk, and formally gave him the back of their hand, him and Pelosi.

                It was very satisfying.

  • Augustus

    “What would Thatcher do if she was in power now?”

    She would be fingering her steel-reinforced handbag. And still preaching what she believed in, and doing everything she could to practise it.

  • foxoles

    I notice you aren’t mentioning Truss’s ‘liberal’ suggestion that porn lessons be added to the curriculum:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/teaching-children-about-sex-pornography-lessons-in-schools-anyone-8364578.html

  • http://twitter.com/John_J_C_Moss John Moss

    Thatcher, as a scientist, would dismiss the claims of man-made global warming and grant shale gas extraction licences immediately. This would not only create jobs and growth in that industry, it would, by reducing energy prices give people more money to spend, thus creating further growth and more jobs.

    That would reduce the welfare bill, increase tax receipts, lower the deficit and destroy the Labour party. She would then win the next General election (even on the current boundaries) and legislate for a referendum on our continuing membership of the EU.

    • michael

      She’d have to disestablish the vested establishment to start with …for the second time … Particularly when a little bleedin’ obvious consideration reveals the energy and environment wheeze to be the biggest ‘old pals’ caper going.

    • Daniel Maris

      Married to an oil man I am sure she’d be all for shale gas and berate the moaning minnies who complain about subsidence and water pollution.

    • northlondoner

      Maggie, as a scientist, has recognised the human effect on global warming. She was interested in aspects of environmental economics – working out the monetary costs of such environmental damage.

  • Bluesman

    A safe Tory seat (as these things go). Unfortunately Mr Forsyth, having hitched her wagon to the chordatically challenged one all that potential (if that is what it is – more likely personal ambition) will be spent in opposition.

  • Archimedes

    Truss needs to be a little cautious. There is a difference between shaping society so that it can be more liberal, and shaping society so that it can only be more liberal. The latter isn’t liberal at all.

    These bits of legislation like flexible maternity leave are surely going to create a situation where an employer is not impressed if a mother doesn’t get her husband to take the time instead, and vice versa for the husband – the eventuality being that it doesn’t reflect well on either of them if they take the leave, and consequently forcing both parents not to. It’s isn’t a libertarian policy at all – it’s the opposite.

  • Curnonsky

    The real question is whether a politician with such a clearly-expressed philosophy that contradicted the prevailing liberal consensus could ever even be in a position to be elected today. never mind what she would do as PM. Doubtless she would be pigoenholed as a racist fruitcake etc. etc.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, Thatcher would be as that BNP woman in Rotherham.

      And the Speccie teenagers would hate her, much as they hate yesteryear’s Thatcher.

  • David Lindsay

    Elizabeth Truss is the next Margaret Thatcher, apparently.

    Well, quite.

    The Conservative Party has been hoovering up Liberals for a very long time: Country
    Whigs, Patriot Whigs, Liberal Unionists, Liberal Imperialists, National Liberals as one of whom Michael Heseltine first sought election to Parliament, Alfred Roberts’s daughter, those around the Institute of Economic Affairs (although its founders and its founding backer, like Roberts, never actually joined), and now the Liberal Democrats.

    Among those last, the most blatantly obvious outrider or trailblazer is Elizabeth Truss, a veteran anti-monarchist campaigner within that party, and also possessed of most unorthodox opinions regarding the institution of marriage, but whom the Conservative hierarchy forced upon a safe Conservative seat in time for the 2010 General Election, since when it has promoted her vigorously in and through the media.

    The followers of David Owen, another who never formally signed up, were in a very similar position, although Owen himself is now close to Ed Miliband. The feud between Heseltine and the former Miss Roberts was fundamentally and ultimately an intra-Liberal affair, and it remains so. Even if vicariously and posthumously, Margaret Thatcher’s father was the last great Liberal commercial magnate from the provinces to exercise national political power in that specific capacity.

    The Conservative Party is itself therefore two parties in one, which would be entirely separate in many other countries, competing hardly at all for the same votes and co-operating hardly at all on any issue of policy. The metropolitan, urban, capitalist, secular, libertarian, make-the-world-anew party has finally defeated and banished the provincial, rural, protectionist, church-based, conservative, mind-our-own-business party. The Whigs have finally defeated and banished the Tories.

    • TomTom

      “Even if vicariously and posthumously, Margaret Thatcher’s father was the
      last great Liberal commercial magnate from the provinces to exercise
      national political power in that specific capacity.” Read “Rotten Borough” …………..http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-oliver-anderson-1351872.html.

      • David Lindsay

        And I love that there was a shopkeeper and local politician in Coronation Street called Alf Roberts. His widow, and sometime Lady Mayoress of Weatherfield, is still a character in it, Audrey the hairdressing matriarch of the Tilsley-Platt-whatever Gail’s surname is this week clan. But he had a corner shop. He was on the council, where he did his year as Mayor. And his name was Alf Roberts.

        • TomTom

          They are starting to arrest the Coronation Street cast

          • David Lindsay

            They should arrest whoever writes EastEnders.

  • http//:therealitygap.com

    She would not have joined a coalition. If Ms Truss is serious, she needs to stop being “a bit of”. You either are something or you’re not. that’s the problem with this pick n’ mix government.

  • TOMTOM

    Yes Thatcher would obviously have stated to a Conservative MP as Liz Truss has done, that a Teacher could be disciplined for not teaching about Gay Marriage. Thatcher would have obviously supported the views of Liz Truss whose New Labour Values infuse the Conservative Party. As President of Oxford University LibDems Truss represents the modern heart of the Conservative Party and with a mother who was a member of CND she is now a core member of Cameron’s Clique and its new LibDem look.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Precisely.

      Thatcher is hated by this crew. Why do they shame themselves by even invoking her name?

    • Colonel Mustard

      An anti-monarchist in the Lib Dems in 1994, marched with CND and a “conservative” in 1996. Conviction politician? Yes, convinced she wants on the gravy train. Another cuckoo in the nest. Just how many of the “new intake” have Marxist, Labour, CND roots?

      • David Lindsay

        There are more former SDP members as Conservative Ministers than there are as Lib Dem Ministers.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Quite!

        • Colonel Mustard

          Quite!

    • Fergus Pickering

      S you judge somebody by what her mother did. What did YOUR mother do? And what somebody thought as a student is surely irrelevant. Denis Healey was a communist. I supported Harold Wilson’s Labour Party. One grows up. One really does? Or at least I do. I don’t know about you.

      • TomTom

        Harold Wilson said of Healey: “Dennis is not a Communist but he thinks like a Communist”………and he made an interesting speech in 1946 long after he was a student. You no doubt Fergus think Kurt Waldheim made an excellent UN Secretary General because his period as a Nazi was a youthful indiscretion. Harold Wilson was a Liberal at University which is probably what attracted you to his party……..no doubt you voted for Michael Foot in 1983

        • David Lindsay

          In 1983, Labour had a manifesto commitment to withdrawal from the EU, as it has always really been (Foot saw that from the start). Did you vote Labour in 1983? If not, why not?

        • Colonel Mustard

          Well Harold Wilson ought to know.

  • David Lindsay

    Not much, she’s 87.

    Ostensibly facetious, but with an important underlying point.

  • Daniel Maris

    Good luck with that: deregulation of childcare. I am sure one J. Saville would have supported that.

    Also how can you be a “bit of a Thatcherite” – isn’t that a kind of contradiction in terms? Like being a “bit of a Christian”, “bit of a virgin” or “bit of a Briton”.

    Thatcher was of her time when it was possible (or seemed so) to be pro-EU*, anti-trade union, pro-free trade, pro-financial sector, pro-Wahaabi despots and patriotic for the UK all at the same time.

    Now we realise that the EU is as much a problem for democracy as a guarantee of it. We realise free trade has seen our industries sold off to various foreign concerns who have us low down on their list of priorities. Free trade, the financial sector and the EU are fuelling mass immigration. Destroying the unions is simply leading to erosion of our living standards generally. We now see the Wahaabi despots aren’t just interested in ruling their own lands, they want to subvert our democracies and spread Sharia law everywhere.

    In other words, we can see Thatcher as really pretty much an anti-patriot in terms of today’s issues.

    * In case people are confused, Thatcher was a later convert to Euroscepticism and was v. pro the EU for most of her career.

    • David Lindsay

      Very well said.

      • Archimedes

        No it wasn’t.

        • David Lindsay

          Just because it is now December, that does nott mean that we ought to be doing panto on here.

          So instead, I ask you: exactly which part was wrong, and how, exactly, was it wrong? “All of it” and “Just because” would not not acceptable answers.

          • Archimedes

            “Also how can you be a “bit of a Thatcherite””

            I imagine this was an expression, or some kind of attempt to make being a Thatcherite sound cute – hardly a point for attack.

            “Thatcher was of her time when it was possible (or seemed so) to be pro-EU*, anti-trade union, pro-free trade, pro-financial sector, pro-Wahaabi despots and patriotic for the UK all at the same time.”

            That was not the state of the country at the time – Thatcher fought for those causes, and changed the country with her arguments in the process. If you really believe his statement, then you have no cause to hold any sort of grudge against Thatcher, because she would have done nothing, and changed nothing.

            “In other words, we can see Thatcher as really pretty much an anti-patriot in terms of today’s issues.”

            Thatcher was in favour of the single market, and consistently opposed any further integration. The notion that she can be described as unpatriotic because she made a mistake doesn’t hold water.

            “Destroying the unions is simply leading to erosion of our living standards generally”

            Thatcher wasn’t opposed to the unions, she was opposed to the state of the unions and the hold there had over the economy at the time. Notably she was very much in favour of Conservatives at Work.

            • David Lindsay

              “I imagine this was an expression, or some kind of attempt to make being a Thatcherite sound cute – hardly a point for attack.”

              No, it was a very good question. One that you have failed to answer.

              “Thatcher was in favour of the single market, and consistently opposed any further integration.”

              A ludicrous position, then as now. As was widely pointed out to her at the time.

              “the hold [the unions] had over the economy at the time”

              Oh, that old chestnut. There really isn’t the room here, but it’s rubbish.

              The rest is mostly about whether or not you think that the sovereignty of the Crown in Parliament ought to be defended against all comers: against media moguls and against money markets, against European federalism and against American domination, against Israel and against the Gulf monarchs, against China and against Russian oligarchs, against any and every threat whatever. Must it not? If not, why not?

              • Archimedes

                “No, it was a very good question. One that you have failed to answer.”

                No, it wasn’t – because there was never an angle on which to ask it, something I believe I outlined.

                “A ludicrous position, then as now. As was widely pointed out to her at the time.”

                Well, I don’t know…but I suppose I did say that I thought she made a mistake there, didn’t I? Yes, that’s right – I did.

                “Oh, that old chestnut. There really isn’t the room here, but it’s rubbish.”

                Oh, is it? Please, enlighten me…

                You seem to have lost the plot after that, so I’ll leave you to your muddle.”

                • David Lindsay

                  Yes, I think that you probably should.

    • MichtyMe

      Yes, and she certainly whacked those eupophobes Foot, Benn & co in 1983 and their manifesto pledge to exit.

    • HJ777

      My wife is a childcare professional – and has been for over thirty years.

      The over-regulation of the last decade or so really hasn’t helped to protect children and has just made childcare more expensive and less available. Any sane person looking at half the regulations and requirements flooding out of Ofsted would come to the same conclusion. Nobody is against protecting children, but the current level of highly prescriptive regulation is quite ridiculous and, if anything, harms the quality of care (and education) of young children.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    Well, Thatcher doesn’t so much have hold on political discourse today as she provides a useful toxic talisman for you wet-as-a-shower Speccie teenagers to disparage and run away from.

    Just to be clear.

    I wonder if the much-hated Thatcher philosophy would have scabbled along to a muddled plurality 2 years ago, and versus certifiably failed opposition, too?

    • David Lindsay

      No.

  • RealTory

    If Thatcher was in power today she would sack most of the vegetables in cabinet and turn this damn country around.

    • telemachus

      I have a sneaking suspicion that if She were in charge now she would dissolve parliament
      Ergo we would get the Government we want and deserve
      Then we would get the economy moving again
      Then She would be pleased

      • MikeBrighton

        What a ludicrous charge. If you bother to read any of her writings you would see she was a democrat and believes in freedom and democracy at her core. She would never have dissolved parliament.

        • telemachus

          Maggie believed in Maggie
          And Pinochet

          • David Lindsay

            And Mugabe. She procured him a knighthood, after having refused to recognise the Muzorewa Government while she held out for the Soviet-backed Nkomo as if he would have been any better than the Chinese-backed Mugabe.

            She also believed in Galtieri, to whom she had been about to flog at a knocked down rate the ships needed in order to defend the Falkland Islands, until he took her at her word and moved in.

            • MikeBrighton

              Tell me how that “ethical foreign policy” worked out for Labour in office? Maggie was many things but I don’t believe she took part in torture

              • telemachus

                But despite the evidence stuck with Pinochet thru thick and thin

              • David Lindsay

                If you believe that…

                • MikeBrighton

                  I believe Labour in office was complicit in illegal rendition and torture, are you denying it? There is plenty of evidence and in Nov 2010 the government settled with Mozam Begg and others for complicity in rendition and torture. Jack Straw, David Milliand and Tony Blair may one day face prosecution, and that prosecution is a test of our standing as a nation that abhors torture.

                • David Lindsay

                  Oh, I couldn’t agree more. And where was the Opposition? But if you sincerely believe that Thatcher had no part in anything like that in her term, then, well, I do not your sincerity. Other things. But not that.

                • Mike Brighton

                  The opposition was utterly usless, in the manner in which they are utterly useless now in government.

                • David Lindsay

                  Again, I couldn’t agree more.

                • telemachus

                  Not utterly
                  They have demonstrated how unsuitable the conservatives are to govern in the modern era
                  Mebbe. in Disraeli’s time or the dark days of the eighties but not in the 21st century

                • telemachus

                  Not utterly
                  They have demonstrated how unsuitable the conservatives are to govern in the modern era
                  Mebbe. in Disraeli’s time or the dark days of the eighties but not in the 21st century

                • telemachus

                  No no no
                  The administration were never party to the atrocities of the yanks
                  Too trusting perhaps

                • MikeBrighton

                  You are being wilfully blind to the abundant evidence

                • TomTom

                  Bullshit – you are a purblind cretin.

                • telemachus

                  No no no
                  The administration were never party to the atrocities of the yanks
                  Too trusting perhaps

          • John Jefferson Burns

            From where I sit whoever Thatcher believed in she was someone who counted.
            What did Major, Cameron and Brown ever do?
            And Blair he was slippery enough to call both George W and Clinton as best friends.

            • telemachus

              Yes JJB, we counted on her to throw 3 million out of work, destroy our manufacturing capacity to the point that we could not weather the double dip recession caused by Osborne, and to cap it all destroyed all notions of cohesive society

              • MikeBrighton

                So what’s Labours motif after an appalling 13 years in office – a crest of a pile of dead Iraqis with crossed torture instruments, a motto of “no return to Tory boom and bust”

                • 2trueblue

                  It is also interesting to look at other areas where Liebore failed us…. the latest HIV figures, for one. Is there anything that Liebore actually did properly? I would have liked a free unbiased media, i.e not the BBC to report what was/is actually happening in the UK in a truthful and unbiased way. But then father Christmas is not real…..

              • MikeBrighton

                You had thirteen years in office wars aside the search parties are still looking for you achievements in office.

              • The Crunge

                I think you will find that our horrendous economic performance and deficit were bequeathed to us by Gordon Brown. Incidentally, it was nice to see Levenson exposing Brown as a liar once again.

                • telemachus

                  Bequeathed by the US
                  Brown rescued us
                  All the indicators were on the up until Osborne turned them down again
                  Nevermind
                  Only 2 years to go to the era of growth

                • The Crunge

                  Oh just stop being ignorant on a Sunday at least.Growth created how?

                • The Crunge

                  I have explained in the past that this did no start in America and cannot be bothered to reiterate the reasons to somebody with an IQ hovering around 43. We were not rescued by the only PM who to my knowledge lied to Parliament (real term cuts in defence spending) but lied during the apology (“one or two years” when it was in fact three years of real term cuts). A unique achievement. The original lies and apology can be found in Hansard and can be seen on YOUTUBE should you choose to deny their existence.

                • telemachus

                  I deny nothing
                  Your points have little to do with the fact that Gordon rescued the worlds banks and turned our own economy round after having engineered the most prolonged economic prosperity and investment in the well being of our people ever

                • The Crunge

                  I officially give up. There is no point in arguing with somebody so deliberately and wilfully stupid as to believe what you have just written. It is truly shameful and despicable. I love this country and the thought of it falling into the hands of people like yourself who want a single party state, government control of the press and a political propaganda so dishonest that it would make a North Korean dictator blush, leaves me with a deep sense of despair. You will only be happy when your socialist vision of despair, hatred and failure has engulfed this land where any dissenting voice can only expect a rapid despatch to the nearest Gulag. Enjoy your future but I will be no part of it.

              • The Crunge

                I think you will find that our horrendous economic performance and deficit were bequeathed to us by Gordon Brown. Incidentally, it was nice to see Levenson exposing Brown as a liar once again.

              • The Crunge

                The fact that our manufacturing capacity as you call it vide: British Leyland, British Steel etc etc was overmanned, inefficient, generally moribund, badly managed, subject to Union pressure at any moment and wholly uncompetitive is conveniently ignored. Your implication being that Thatcher saw a glittering edifice and said: “yes I think I will destroy that and cause untold misery” is too fatuous even by your uneducated, unthinking and imbecelic standards. Thatcherism freed up capital, stimulated new businesses and laid the foundations for the relative prosperity that this country enjoyed until Tony Blair arrived. This genius decided that it would be a good idea if an arrogant, economically illiterate and dishonest coward in the shape of Gordon Brown was pitched like an economic cancer into the body of the British economy for 13 woeful years.

                • telemachus

                  Way I see it she expunged it and hid not even leave a rump
                  Lamont. Finished it off
                  Thank god for the 1997 rescue which went a little off course with subprime
                  But rescued by Gordon until George scuppered it again
                  2015 is coming

                • The Crunge

                  Your response is typically illiterate, incoherent, economically and historically inaccurate, fanciful and pointless. Perhaps you should consult an adult before approaching a computer in future.

                • telemachus

                  Happily I represent the future
                  Happily for you even your sort will also benefit

                • The Crunge

                  No you are just a rambling illiterate trying to make himself heard in an adult world where the issues are simply too complicated for you to make a sensible comment.

                • Harold Angryperson

                  Telemachus writes a history of the White Star Line:
                  “1912 saw the introduction of the Titanic on the North Atlantic route, the liner had a hugely successful maiden voyage save for an incident with an iceberg.”

              • HJ777

                ONS figures clearly show that manufacturing output increased by around 20% under the Thatcher/Major governments – and was still growing strongly when they left power in 1997.

                In contrast, it stagnated from 2001 onwards and then fell under the Labour government that followed. Overall, manufacturing output declined by over 10% under Labour (1997-2010) despite inheriting strongly growing output.

                May I ask why you don’t check your facts before making incorrect assertions?

                • Lupulco

                  HJ777

                  My understanding that she decimated our manufacturing industry.

                  Set the seeds for deregulation of the Financial Sector, and all that, that led to!

                  In any of her years in Power there was never a balanced budget, even with the wealth of the North Sea and the sell off, of State assets.

                  The destruction of our energy sector, CEGB and British Gas just two. These in turn led to the down fall of our large manufacturers who supplied these firms. Which resulted in the rush for gas, a less coordinated energy supply system.

                  This in turn brings us to 2015 when ALL our major conventional coal burning power stations and nuclear power stations will be shut down. No new plants of similar calibre will be built by the private utility companies, unless they get large bribes, sorry subsidies, from the government [Tax-payer & customers]

                  So we reach a situation, were GB Ltd is to be held to ransom by both Utility Companies and Foreign Energy Suppliers.

                  Thanks a bunch, Mrs T.

                • HJ777

                  Your understanding is factually wrong.

                  Manufacturing output increased.

                  Governments do not need to run balanced budgets. Provided borrowing as a percentage of GDP is lower than the percentage GDP growth, debt will fall as a percentage of GDP – which it did.

                  Financial de-regulation wasn’t the problem – bad regulation was. Who designed the regulatory regime? Brown and Balls.

                  We have the lowest domestic energy prices in Europe (cheapest gas, 4th cheapest electricity), thanks to competition. Check with VaasaETT if you don’t believe me.

            • 2trueblue

              Major role in contributing to the settlement in Northern Ireland has been played down by Liebore and the largely left wing media. The Blair took the credit for it.

              • John Jefferson Burns

                Way I see it is that Clinton fixed this(the only good thing he ever did) after Tony Blair asked for help when he was getting nowhere.

                • 2trueblue

                  Not so. Mayor did all the ground work, Clinton took the credit as well as Bliar.

              • John Jefferson Burns

                Way I see it is that Clinton fixed this(the only good thing he ever did) after Tony Blair asked for help when he was getting nowhere.

            • Dimoto

              Major was as slippery as Blair – just without the charisma.
              I guess Red Ed has set the trend. If Red can be a “little bit Benjamin Disraeli”, I guess Linny can be a “little bit Margaret Thatcher”.

          • treborc1

            Bit like Blair then Saddam was a friend for a while, and of course he put the death on Gaddafi by telling how great he was. and of course Blair now has a few new friends who are Tyrants.

            • telemachus

              I confess that Blair had his faults the main one of which was that he was a Tory
              Thank God we now have Ed Balls(Miliband is just keeping the chair warm)

          • The Crunge

            Just as Gordon Brown believed in Gadaffi.

            • telemachus

              No that was closet Tory tony Blair

        • RealTory

          You would get more sense out of a bowl of soup than the troll. Don’t bother.

      • treborc1

        UKIP, you cannot be talking about the veg Miliband with the thicko Balls for god sake

        • telemachus

          Sorry I missed the relevance of UKIP
          But then most do

      • The Crunge

        And I have a sneaking suspicion that if left to you we would all be living in a single party leftist state with all the delightful apparatus of individual repression and misery loved by Stalinists the World over. Statutory control of what little press was permitted (The Mirror?), state contol of industry and commerce etc. No doubt many of us with this criminal love of freedom can look forward to answering questions in a dark Lubyanks with a picture of a grinning Ed Balls on the wall behind the interrogator’s desk.

    • David Lindsay

      She never sacked the “vegetables” at the time. They sacked her. One by one, they came in and pretty much told to her f**k off. So she did.

      • The Crunge

        Oh that you would except their sage advice.

      • RealTory

        Why don’t you and your double-act fellow onaninist friend telemucus get a room somewhere and stop monopolising Coffee House? I wouldn’t mind if either of you had anything intelligent to say but I have never found much of interest from your ridiculous outpourings. You might consider yourself clever but I have had smarter dogs than you two shot out of hand for spoiling the chase. Labour’s lost generation epitomized in the pair of you.

    • treborc1

      Yea and then you woke up and found a leader suffering dementia asking Dennis what she should do.

Close
Can't find your Web ID? Click here