Coffee House

The Connecticut shooting

14 December 2012

14 December 2012

The news coming out of Connecticut is just awful. 18 children have been gunned down at their school and, reports suggest, that another nine people—including the gunman—are also dead. The gunman’s mother apparently worked at the school, and is believed to be among those he murdered.

If this death toll is accurate, it will be the second worst shooting in US history, behind the Virginia Tech incident in 2007. Early reports indicate that the weapon was legally purchased and licensed. It can seem tawdry to talk about politics at a time like this. But there’s no doubt that the gun control debate will now return to Washington. The White House has already indicated that it wants to see the assault weapon ban, which elapsed in 2004, renewed.

Days like today are yet another reminder that it shouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to come up with a system that fits with the US Constitution and allows hunters and farmers to continue to use guns while preventing people like today’s killer from having access to automatic weaponry that can kill so many people in such a short period of time.


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  • Paul

    Automobiles have to be insured. Why not guns. If you own a gun you have to have
    insurance for any damage that weapon may cause. If you have more than one gun
    you need a policy for each one. If your son goes nuts your insurance will pay
    for it. You can still keep your gun. You can still wave it around like an idiot.
    You can still fire it. But now you are responsible for any damage of any kind.
    Different types of guns will require different coverage. If you want to have an
    automatic weapon which fires two hundred rounds a minute that will cost you more
    than a single shot .22 Like an
    automobile accident your premium will go up every time you have a claim whether
    it’s your fault or not. This will not stop people from killing each other but it
    will spread the financial blame equally among all gun owners regardless of their
    level of guilt. Owning guns seems to bring the righteous out in people. Fine. Be
    as righteous as you want. Arm yourself to the teeth. But making the guy pay for
    it changes the whole dynamic of gun ownership. Let us be clear. There will still
    be insane rampages. Insurance will not stamp that out overnight. But nor will
    anything else. This will not discriminate between good or bad gun owners. It
    will not discriminate between good or bad people. Insurance is designed to take
    money from everyone. Unfair? Unreasonable? Well I haven’t hurt anyone in my car
    but it still costs me two thousand bucks a year just to get into it. The NRA are
    always going on about responsible gun ownership. This will make them even more
    responsible so they will welcome it won’t they.

    An incident like Newtown will create a
    legal battle ground between the owners, suppliers, importers, manufacturers and
    insurance companies. It will make everyone’s life a misery. It’s perfect!
    Insurance companies will love this. They will provide an important ally for the
    legislation. The only people who will be offended by this will be the batshit
    crazy collectors with arsenals of assault weapons. Charge them $1000 for each
    one. They’ll come around real quick.

    Paul

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Well, you can try to get that authoritarian madness through, I suppose.

      Good luck.

  • D B

    The gun control debate needs to continue without ceasing until and unless sanity finally prevails.

  • Malfleur

    The media and its liberal and left-wing sponsors are attempting to force through constitutional change on the back of the emotional momentum generated by the media’s pornographic coverage of the tragedy.

    • telemachus

      Malleus you astound me with this sage non biased analysis
      The problem is the American psyche
      The only relevance of guns is the quantum

      • Augustus

        “You won’t get gun control by disarming law-abiding citizens. There’s only one way to get real gun control: disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up and if you don’t actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time. It’s a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers. I happen to know this from personal experience.”
        – Ronald Reagan

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, the media are pornographers.

      No, the pornographers will find no joy in the US, re constitutional change.

  • TomTom

    Why do you show Hoboken, NJ for a shooting in CT ? Is it because you want to smear the son working at Ernst & Young with his brother’s crime in CT ? Is it really the way to treat someone whose brother and mother are dead simply because American media smeared him ?

  • jazz6o6

    Peter Hitchens had this to say which I think merits some attention :-

    “……Guns, as I have repeatedly said, have been freely available in the USA for centuries. Shootings followed by suicides, of this sort, were rare in that country until the era of modern medication for mental illness, and there is a strong correlation (yes, I know, correlation is not causation) between such shootings and the use of these medications. Until the media take more interest in this correlation, we won’t get the proper inquiry into it that we so badly need. Why anyone should be against such an inquiry, I cannot imagine………”

  • Matthew

    Can’t expect anyone in Britain to know this, but for the record, the shooter did NOT have a fully automatic weapon. These are almost impossible to obtain anywhere in the U.S., and quite illegal in Connecticut.

    • ButcombeMan

      Mini-Uzi machine gun and ammunition seized after attempted robbery in Salford
      Alex Bell
      October 25, 2012
      A Mini-Uzi machine gun and ammunition have been seized by police after an attempted robbery last night in Broughton Park.
      Police were called to Coke Street West following reports a man was being robbed and saw two men flee as they arrived.
      While being chased by officers one of the offenders dropped a bag
      in an alleyway leading towards Seymour Road, north Manchester.
      There was a fully automatic machine gun wrapped in a piece of
      cloth in the bag, along with more than 30 rounds of live ammunition.
      Superintendent Stuart Barton said the gun has now been secured
      for forensic analysis and no-one was injured during either the attempted
      robbery or the police pursuit.
      “I would therefore like to praise the swift response of the
      officers who chased after these men as they had no idea the offenders
      were carrying such a weapon. I would however like to make it clear the
      officers were not threatened and the firearm was neither directed at
      them or fired in any way.”
      The incident happened about 10.50pm last night.

      • TomTom

        Only an Uzi…in Bradford the Saffron restaurant crew favoured Mac-10 plus a Barrett 0.50 sniper rifle to deal with “family feuds”….there is so much weaponry floating around because the drugs business is a cash business and the streets are not safe…..

  • Daniel Maris

    This seems to be the thing that links most of these killings:

    “He had to be medicated to control his moods” (Source: Daily Mail)

  • Gina Dean

    It seems to me the problem is more on the mental health of the gunmen. If this was addressed at an earlier stage with those people and they where not allowed to be issued with guns it would be half way to a solution. Americans are never going to give up their firearms, possible there might be tighter controls to come out from this.

  • ButcombeMan

    The US seeming obsession with drugs may have as much to do with such random inexplicable shootings as does guns. Senator Gabrielle Giffoird was shot by Jared Lee Loughner. His drugs history was compicated, there is some detail here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner

    Guns do not kill by themsleves it is the guiding brain that causes the killing.

    A demented drug addled brain, plus a gun, is the lethal combination.,

  • Get it right

    Perhaps there are two problems – one is gun control laws and the other
    is mental health treatment, I hope that both parts of the problem will
    be addressed.

  • TomTom

    Why did a Primary School teacher need a rifle, a SIG-Sauer and a Glock ? Surely classroom discipline is better than that in CT ? Or was it her autistic son who needed keeping in line ? I do wonder why a teacher needed two automatic postols and a self-loading rifle. Connecticut has Gun Control Laws http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Connecticut

    Then again Dunblane had gun control laws and a chil-molester Freemason had gun permits – but his file is sealed for 100 years…..wonder if he knew Jimmy Savile ?

  • http://elfnhappiness.blogspot.com/ eeore

    It will be interesting to see how the politics of this plays out.

    The easy comparison is with Dunblaine.

    But the difference is that at the time of that tragedy the British government had not already laid out a program of FEMA camps for the re-education of political opponents. It had not been running guns to drugs gangs in a neighboring country. And it didn’t have cabinet members who had actively engaged in a cover up of murdering children, as Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden did at Waco.

    Gun sales in the US shot up at the re-election of Obama, and there is a debate to be had. But equally there is a debate to be had about the connection of prescription drugs and this type of outrage.

    • TomTom

      True. Obama arming Mexican drug barons never gets mentioned in Britain’s Media …..nor Janet Reno’s weird behaviour over Waco

  • Augustus

    So another monstrous and horrid crime hits America, and the media and the nation will now engage in the same analysis that always follows these events; who or what to blame? Some will blame gun culture and call for more restrictions on gun sales. The obvious answer is that people kill other people with every manner of instrument available from kitchen knives to lamp cord. Guns may facilitate the killing, but someone has to pull the trigger first. But you could just as easily blame the penchant for movies and TV shows that show so much killing that it dulls the senses to the violence. Perhaps the egocentric narcissism of a monster such as this killer is a thing being cultivated by our society. But yes, Americans have always been fond of guns, and they were a necessity for much of the history of the nation. If it were just the quantity of guns that are to blame for the day’s tragedy, one would think that these events would be more common. It is precisely because they are not common that we find ourselves appalled by the news reports. When it involves innocent school children it just adds to the horror, and those who don’t own a gun may now purchase one, because the only thing they know for sure is that they feel less secure in their daily lives, whether going to a movie or dropping a child off at school.

    • TomTom

      Maybe David Cameron can emote on this…….?

      • Augustus

        Unfortunately, there are tough human problems that just don’t have a psychological solution.
        There is no way to resolve certain individuals’ issues with themselves, or the
        way they function within society. The U.S. can improve its defenses in the face of mass violence in its
        educational institutions, it can put an armed guard at the entrance of every
        school, Israeli-style, but there is very little that the U.S. can do to prevent this mass violence from ever happening again. Helplessness is the name of the game in cases like this. That is what America
        is crying about, and the world is crying with it.

  • Daniel Maris

    I think it was a mistake to start this thread JF.

    • Thomas Paine

      I know it just attracts gun-fetishising muppets to come and spout self-justificatory nonsense.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Like you.

  • Wilhelm

    I think it’s quite tawdry, that the limp wristed liberal English media always link these shootings with the gun control debate.

    In the 17th and 18th century the majority of British people kept guns, it was perfectly normal, now that we have become liberal and decadent, effete Tarquin types, we squeal if we see a gun.

    If you’re living in North Dakota , 500 miles from the nearest police station, who’s going to protect you ?

    • Daniel Maris

      Wilhelm – As always your concept of history is completely fantastic. The idea that in the 18th century 5 million British people kept guns is so ludicrous as to be beyond parody.

      BTW I am sure you are very pleased about how peaceful New York City, that racial nightmare of yours, has become in recent times.

      • Wilhelm

        ” New York City ”

        In my book that’s a dirty word, give me Iceland every time.

        • Daniel Maris

          Yep, you obviously like nations founded by violent drug-using rapists and pillagers (aka The Vikings).

          • TomTom

            You mean like The City of London built on Imperial “trade” and Opium Profits in India and China…….really Daniel, you must view this country’s history as Chinese and others see it

      • TomTom

        Guns were common into the 1920s when they were controlled for fear of Uprising. Property Crime is rife and English people have to Bend Over Here It Comes Again because they have no rights to defend themselves or their property. The police are non-existent and never prevent crime. Guna re aplenty in Bradford, Manchester etc – in Bradford a restaurant – Saffron – had its owners and staff jailed for bringing in Mac machine guns….gus.co.uk/news/9731391.Bradford_restaurant_family__wanted_to_buy_guns_because_of_feud_/

    • andagain

      I think it’s quite tawdry, that the limp wristed liberal English media always link these shootings with the gun control debate.

      Per head of population, America seems to have more of these events than anywhere else. Why?

      Unless you can propose another explanation, people are going to keep coming back to the theory that they are especially common in America because it has especially lax gun control.

      • TomTom

        Per Head of Population is a meaningless statistic – usually people quote per 1000. It has 300 MILLION people – nations with >100 Million are very different from places with 50 million. Go collate statistics in India or China or Russia or Brazil or Mexico and compare rather than with compact little islands where nobody moves or does anything. The levels of mental illness in the USA are high because it is a big country rather than a tiny little island of smug, complacent, failures.

        • andagain

          The levels of mental illness in the USA are high

          I didn’t know that. But if you really are trying to persuade people that America is a land full of madmen, I think you are doing very well.

          Strange thing for a patriot to want to tell people, though.

    • TomTom

      “the limp wristed liberal English” is the more correct description. Totally p*ssy-whipped and supine like rabbits in the headlights

    • roger

      In the 18th century it took a minute between shots if you were very quick, the watchmen had the truncheon( backed up by the noose and the gibbet).
      In Dakota a bolt action rifle and a revolver should be enough, nothing more.

  • R

    One of the big stories on zerohedge.com for months has been the huge increase in gun purchases, fuelled by some peoples fears that Obama may try to legislate against guns. I saw his statement and I think now may be the time to act, he had trouble speaking and is clearly morally ready to act, he is also in his second term with nothing to lose. The big problem will be the gun lobby working on the senate and house.

    I used to be in the TA and also a gun club for practise , owning a pistol and a carbine (a rifle that holds 30 rounds but needs a trigger pull for each) and had to give them up as the law changed following Hungerford (carbine) and Dunblane (9mm pistol) but I realised, from personal experience, that irrational anger , depression and panic can cause anybody to shoot people.

    Britain has gone through stage one, next is the reducing of civilian .22 vermin rifles to two shot like shotguns. The control of ammunition is the key, criminals with illegal guns have terrible trouble getting rounds, short of mugging a policeman.

    Stage three can then be the reduction of police weapons down to six shot pistols , six shot carbines (MP5s). If anyone can tell me when a British policeman has had to fire more than six shots I would like to know, one or two is usually enough.

    I once annoyed a couple of policemen at Gatwick (30 round 5.56 G36 military carbines) that the day they opened fire would probably their last days in the job.

    Britain is now over armed, cut back.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, cut back. The overlords need the sheeple to be unarmed.

      Obama is smart enough to avoid pushing any gun grabbing, I should think. Voters in the US are not sheeple, I think you’ll find, and 2014 would be an electoral bloodbath for any politician foolish enough to cast a foolish vote.

    • HooksLaw

      Act? He is powerless to act. He is not a dictator. He can only sign any laws that Congress pass. The House is Republican. Is there a majority in the Senate? I don’t blame Obama for being upset, this is a terrible tragedy. The killer shot his mum which was similar I think to Hungerford.

      As for police weapons… you are saying that the police should take on better armed criminals terrorists etc with 6 shot pistols?

      I am sure you did annoy the police at Gatwick, but don’t worry they are used to dealing with pratts like you. Having said that I think there have been too many instances where the police have shot wrongly.

    • TomTom

      I doubt BRitish police know how to fire G36 weapons. POlice here have an awful reputation with guns but they have a Scot Free Card they wave at inquests

  • the viceroy’s gin

    “…preventing people like today’s killer from having access to automatic weaponry…”

    .

    Well, in the US “automatic weaponry” is barred to all but a very select few, and so it’s almost a surety that this killer did not have or use such in this crime.

    So apparently they’re already doing what you’re asking for.

    • R

      I think you are confusing ‘automatic’ with ‘fully automatic’ a machine gun.
      A person can convert most carbines into a machinegun by filing down the sear , they both have no place in society.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        No, I’m not confusing anything, although you appear to be.

        Automatic weaponry is different than semiautomatic, which is what you’re discussing.

        And no, simple filing doesn’t “convert” semiautomatics into automatic firearms, you seem to be passing on the old wive’s tale.

        Are you a gunsmith, perchance?

        • Daniel Maris

          Are you a firearms expert as well as an hydrocarbon engineer Viceroy? Your realms of expertise know no bounds, it seems.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            Well, compared to you, yes.

            Not that that’s saying much, because…

      • TomTom

        I understand that may be possible in some jurisdictions but NOT in the USA where the machining of parts is different for civilian-use versus military-use weapons with non-interchangeable parts under US Law. Further US Justice Dept data states <2% inmates incarcerated for gun crimes had even a semi-automatic weapon.

  • Daniel Maris

    I am not sure why you are butting in on the American scene with this little homily.

    I personally favour strong gun control. But I understand the American cultural context. Gun ownership is part of their freedom culture – it’s part of what makes them American.

    It’s for Americans to deal with the fall out from this atrocious crime .

    Personally I feel they need also to address how they deal with depression in young people – they seem to favour drugging people to the eyeballs which probably has somethning to do with the way this rage attacks happen.

    • Daniel Maris

      That should have been “these rage attacks”…I am of course not privy to what happened in this case but often there is a history of depression.

      • TomTom

        Drugs and Narcotics plus video games usually. Columbine School was rife with rich kids and cars and drugs with very wealthy absent parenting

    • roger

      American culture and the constitution, good, let any non-felon sane adult have a muzzle loading black powder single shot rifle for hunting. The National Guard is the well formed militia.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        No, as was intended, the People are the militia.

        Good luck selling otherwise.

      • TomTom

        National Guard ? Pity they didn’t arm students at Kent State. The National Guard is neither well-trained nor particularly fit – they cause most of the criminal problems in Iraq and Afghanistan…….besides National Guard is under POLITICAL control especially when the Federal Government takes control as in Little Rock Arkansas – so the Citizen has NO protection against an Oppressive State Power………….http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-86767.html

  • Vindice

    “It can seem tawdry to talk about politics at a time like this. But there’s no doubt that the gun control debate will now return to Washington.”

    It can seem tawdry because it is tawdry. The gun control debate will return not least because journalists with space to fill will resurrect it with disingenuous clauses like “there’s no doubt that that gun control debate will now return”.

    I would argue that the one thing above all others that ensures that these things will keep happening in American schools is the (inter)national media attention that they attract. It will be the lead item on news bulletins and discussion programs across the world. Within the USA, for days on end.

    Regarding gun control, one might just as logically argue that gun ownership is clearly too low in Connecticut. Had more people been armed, even with tranquilizer darts or tasers, then the murderer might have been downed before he took a shot, or immediately after his first. If that was the norm, and these narcissistic sociopaths were ended with an average death toll of around one, then they would be denied their glory, and the incentive to spray bullets around might be reduced.

    Guns are a great leveller. If I’m physically weaker than the my assailant because of my age, gender, stature, health, then a ballistic weapon offers me parity and safety.

    • Kevin

      I do not recollect the spate of stabbings in Chinese schools getting much coverage in this country.

      You are absolutely right. It should not be beyond the freedom of man to protect himself through appropriate means whether from shooters or stabbers.

    • R

      I’m sorry but the ‘well armed citizen’ argument is totally false, the amount of training and regular practise needed is just not possible, not just the weapon handling but the reaction (anti-freeze) training and the background awareness (don’t shoot the innocent standing behind the gunman), as we know even well trained police make fatal errors, remember the killing of a naked unarmed man in Eastbourne.
      Only a continual reduction of weapons is the answer, including reducing state arms.

      • Daniel Maris

        I agree R. But it’s not our argument and we have quite a few pressing problems to address in the UK.

        But for the record – let’s not forget we had mass shootings in the UK and they have happened elsewhere.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        Actually, in the US, shootings involving the police are far more problematic and result in far more errors and court cases than civilian shootings, which are generally quite clean.

        To be fair, the police have to deal with many stressful situations and are bound to make mistakes. Conversely, civilians are generally in their own home, and the bad guy comes along, makes his intentions clear, and receives a sudden attack of lead poisoning for his trouble. End of problem. Clean. Just call the meat wagon and write it up for the records.

        Guns are more and more available in the US, and laws get looser and looser, and yet the crime rate continues to fall. That would seem to contradict your point.

        • Daniel Maris

          Enough of the BS, Viceroy. There were over 9000 murders by firearms in 2009 in the USA, compared with 39 in the UK.

          The differential in terms of human misery is pretty incredible – and of course that doesn’t cover all the attempted murders, the paralysis and lifelong injury.

          • TomTom

            The demographics are different. Black-on-Black murders are a mainstay of US gun crime followed by drug-dealing. What exactly does the Met do with Black on Black crime ? Northern Ireland has very low property crime. Belgium has high gun ownership as do Switzerland and Germany. The British have gun laws because of fear of Civil Uprising in 1920s

            • the viceroy’s gin

              Correct. They can’t allow the plebes to start revolting, as in Ireland at that time.

            • Daniel Maris

              So black on black murders “don’t count”? Contemptible reasoning.

              • Wilhelm

                ” black on black murders don’t count.”

                Well, if you say so !

              • TomTom

                They clearly do since they make up the bulk of the statistics. Really Daniel do switch on the brain ! Highest cause of Unnatural Death among Black Males <30 in New York 1) Gunshot b) HIV-AIDS
                So stop your bleeding heart sanctimony and address the statistics…..if you find it hard look at SOUTH AFRICA

                • telemachus

                  Shame on you
                  This issue is to do with the American have to achieve psyche in those who fail
                  The guns go only to the quantum of death

          • AnotherDaveB

            “Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa – widely considered one of the world’s most dangerous countries.”

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

            Your human misery metric would probably favour the US over the UK.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              It does.

            • Daniel Maris

              If you believe we have a worse record of violence than South Africa then, my friend, you’ll believe anything. I’ve seen police stats. We record a push and a shove as a violent offence. I can assure you no one even calls the Police for that sort of thing in most of the countries listed.

          • the viceroy’s gin

            No, there’s plenty of violent crime in the UK, and it continued to skyrocket the past couple decades, even as they banned guns: http://usopenborders.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/GunOwnershipViolentCrimeEng1.gif

            Meanwhile, US crime statistics continue to drop over the past 2 decades, even as gun laws have been loosened by the year.

            Good people defending themselves with firearms, as is their right, no matter what corrupt politicians say.

          • woolfiesmiff

            You might want to explain why the country with the highest proportion of gun ownership per head Switzerland also has one of the lowest murder rates

            • telemachus

              This is the most valuable point made since the start of all this

          • woolfiesmiff

            In 2001 nearly 3,000 people were murdered on one day in the USA. The USA has the highest number of the weapon used to murder them.

            Therefore lets ban aeroplanes

            • Wilhelm

              Ebonic speakers run amok in London stabbing people with knives every 10 seconds.

              I don’t hear the media saying ” Let’s ban cutlery.”

            • telemachus

              Forgive me but I think that was a deliberate war act

              • TomTom

                Ah so you think 7 July was a “deliberate war act” too ?

        • TomTom

          The Law is NOT loose in Connecticut. Besides gun ownership has soared since Obama got elected and the Banks crashed. Wal-Mart is reportedly running out of ammunition

          • the viceroy’s gin

            I’d agree, CT is a gun grabbing state, and schools are by law a no carry zone in most of the gun grabbing states. So the teachers and staff and students are sure targets, and the kook shooters know it.

            But if that nutter opens fire in another kind of place, he’s likely to be dropped in his tracks.

    • Thomas Paine

      Yes schoolteachers and kids should carry guns. What idiots these gun-lovers are. Do they really believe this self-serving tosh they spout?

      • TomTom

        School teachers certainly – their working environment is unsafe in UK schools with regular assaaults and knives aplenty. Stephen Lawrence – the White one – found being a headmaster a mortal business when faced with an immigrant knife in 1995….but at least Chindamo gets to live safeky in London

        • telemachus

          Cheap racial remark
          This is a deep malaise peculiarly in US society
          It has to have something to do with alienation from the philosophy to always be on top

          • Invigilator

            Legal test comment

          • TomTom

            Yes a boy with Italian father and Filipina mother gets to murder a British headmaster in London and fawning Tony Blair uses the widow for his campaign then dumps her. Still Tele-Boy does not give a fig about knives in prevalence when he can start a rant against American society

            • HooksLaw

              Still a cheap nasty racist remark. My wife’s cousins have a Filipino mother. They are totally decent hardworking integrated people. And you wonder why I think you are contemptible.

              Lawrence himself was born in Dublin. Chindamo having an absentee father might be more of a talking point.

              • TomTom

                Filipina mother if she is female

            • Wilhelm

              America’s black population is 12 % yet they make up 50 % of the prison population. When you’ve got 35 million Ebonic speakers on the loose , you need to have a firearm for protection.

              You could be walking down the street, and a ebonic speaker could creep up behind you and punch you, for no apparent reason.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUOOR4E6P3E

              Or you could be sitting on a bus, and be strangled by a ebonic speaker, again for no apparent reason.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZe7I2URIUM

              • Wilhelm

                Black man attacks white man = unprovoked attack

                White man attacks black man = racist attack.

              • ex-Stokey

                How did I live in Hackney for 26 years without knowing what Ebonic is?Perhaps I should ask my son, his grandmother came from Trinidad.
                ‘Ebonic’, WTF

            • roger

              Not with the armoured limo and the armed guards he has.

        • roger

          The first stabbing in my 30 year school career was in 1975, severed vein in the buttock,blood all over the floor and needed lots of compression to staunch. The second was in 2003, stab to the chest and very nearly fatal. Ironically after that school closed they used it as the set for a TV film about the headmaster (Lawrence) murder.
          Sorting out the reasons for carrying knives, intimidation, robbery, fear and lack of respect by a moral reset rather than passing yet more laws is the answer. As the song ‘Amazing Grace’ tells us, people can change their moral outlook very quickly if they want.

    • Sarah

      Yes if only Kindergarten and Primary school teachers, and 6 and 7 year olds were armed.

      Arms race.

  • telemachus

    Why oh why do we hear year on year about shooting children in American Schools
    I cannot believe it is just guns
    Is there something in the American psyche that leads the inadequate to express themselves this way

    • HooksLaw

      America is an immigrant nation, full of Scots Irish Germans Italians Swedes Russians Puerto Ricans Mexicans – you name it. Who in particular are you thinking of?
      Tell us what you think peculiar in the Cambodian, Japanese, Russian or German mass murder psyche?

      • telemachus

        More than any other nation the Americans rally their melting pot together daily in the formative years of school to pay homage to the flag.
        Mebbe this is some curious rebellion against all that.
        We should pray that this be the last but do more than knee jerk gun control which is doomed to fail

        • TomTom

          The gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in 1994 by
          country were as follows:

          U.S.A. 14.24
          Brazil 12.95
          Mexico 12.69
          Estonia 12.26
          Argentina 8.93
          Northern Ireland 6.63
          Finland 6.46
          Switzerland 5.31
          France 5.15
          Canada 4.31
          Norway 3.82
          Austria 3.70
          Portugal 3.20
          Israel 2.91
          Belgium 2.90
          Australia 2.65
          Slovenia 2.60
          Italy 2.44
          New Zealand 2.38
          Denmark 2.09
          Sweden 1.92
          Kuwait 1.84
          Greece 1.29
          Germany 1.24
          Hungary 1.11
          Ireland 0.97
          Spain 0.78
          Netherlands 0.70
          Scotland 0.54
          England and Wales 0.41
          Taiwan 0.37

      • TomTom

        http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparetable.jsp?ind=115&cat=2 Try Blacks…..the statistics make it clear

        • HooksLaw

          Most murders in America are Intra racial. Poor blacks living in poor black areas kill other poor blacks. For the most part the word ‘black’ here is irrelevant. Its coincidental that there are more poor blacks than poor whites.

          • TomTom

            Why do poor blacks kill each other ? Are they on a Poverty Reduction Scheme ? Or are they drug-dealing ? what do you think Hook’s Law ? You must know a friend who has a Poor black friend in Newv York or Memphis or maybe Atlanta and can tell you how they trade food stamps for carbines……or maybe you know how Social Workers hand out 38 Specials as a Birth Control mechanism. Why do you think Mexico has so much gun killing…..can’t they behead all their victims instead when the drug lords order it ?

    • http://twitter.com/danieljohnson85 Daniel Johnson

      It might be down the large amount of SSRI drugs prescribed by health professionals in the US.

      It China they’ve had a spate of school attacks in the last few years, with many children injured. In each case the attacker used a knife.

      In fact, there was one today, with 22 children injured:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

      • Daniel Maris

        I have raised this possibilty as well.

        It’s odd isn’t it how Scientologists are anathematised for getting mentally ill patients off their drugs. So far, I don’t think there’s ever been a Scientologist involved in a mass murder of this type. But there have been lots of young people treated with conventional drugs peddled by the big drug firms and the medical establishment who have perpetrated these appalling crimes.

        Are they committing these crimes because their emotional responses (to children, friends and family) have been completely suppressed? That might be a possibility.

    • roger

      Yet what about ‘Dunblane’?

      • TomTom

        If you wait 100 years the file on Hamilton might be released and you can see why drugs the pederast used and which Lodge he was a member of

        • HooksLaw

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4290938.stm

          ‘Order lifted on Dunblane papers’

          • TomTom

            Edited material will be made available from Monday but Mr
            Boyd said some documents would not be published as they could distress
            relatives.,………I know Rudolf Hess landed in Scotland in 1941…..if I live another 40 years I may find out “edited” versions of what it was all about

    • ButcombMan

      Yes there is, drugs use will likely come into this somehow. Just one more reason Clegg has got it wrong.

    • TomTom

      How do they do it in Russia ? Go find out. Or maybe you should stop getting cheap feed from US mEdia and buy it from media outlets around the world where Stuff Happens

  • Adrian Drummond

    Don’t they have some form of gun control in Norway, too?

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