Israel vs Hamas: Who started it?

15 November 2012

7:32 AM

15 November 2012

7:32 AM

The papers and media are full of the news that Israel has killed a Hamas leader in the Gaza. Why did this happen? Where did it come from? Is it not yet another example of the blood-thirsty Zionists doing their worst?

If you read most of the British media that may well be what you think. After all there has been barely any previous mention in the British papers of the massive escalation in rocket fire into Israel in the last month or the even swifter escalation this week. Certainly no British paper or broadcaster has come close to giving these attacks the front-page publicity they grant to Israel’s response today.


Nobody much bothered to report that in October alone, 116 rockets and 55 mortar shells were launched against Israel in 92 separate attacks. It is such a dull daily occurrence that no one any longer bothers to report the fact that the citizens of whole towns in Southern Israel have to rush to bomb shelters – on land that is indisputably Israeli – several times a week at best and many times a day at worst.

Since the beginning of this year more than 800 missiles and mortars have been fired at Israel. Since last Saturday, when Hamas terrorists fired an anti-tank missile into an army jeep Israel, injuring four Israeli soldiers, more than 120 missiles have been fired at Israeli civilians by terrorists in Gaza. Israel has now responded to random targeting of civilians with the targeted killing of a terrorist.

Yet because of the way in which this is reported, many decent people will once again come away with the idea that it is the Israelis who have started this latest round of blood-letting. Whatever atrocity Hamas carries out next will be portrayed as a response, regrettable or otherwise, to Israeli provocation. Thus the British media ends up legitimising terrorism and demonising an ally which is behaving with more restraint than this country would in the face of such barbarism.

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Show comments
  • rndtechnologies786

    Nice blog.

  • Jimmy

    I think the majority of the readers are missing the point here- this is a war that has been going on since Israel, which many still consider an illegal state, started expanding its borders occupying lands owned by generations of muslims. Prior to the erction of the Israeli “state” muslims jews and christians were all living peacefully alongside oneanother as they had done for many many years. Ultimately the source of the problem is the illegal expansion of the Israeli lands- now how can that be fair? Families seeing their homes being destroyed, the thousands that are arrested by the Israeli forces. Its absolutely disgusting. People are quick to point at muslim clerics and blame them for the ongoing problems when the actual root cause is totally ignored- the spin on all mainstream medias is such that the actual issue is overlooked! Open your eyes- dont suddenly change ur opinion because of what ive said rather go out there n read fr urself from the history books, do your research!!!

  • sadoldpedant

    All this may be true, but nothing can possibly justify Israel’s occupation policy in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

  • Cassandra1963

    BBC bias? Six unarmed men dragged out of a van and murdered in the street in one of the most savage acts of mass murder of recent times, no trial and no justice and no chance to defend themselves. One victim dragged through the streets by the feet, no outcry from the bleeding heart liberal media because the mass murderers are hamas gangsters, they can can murder and kill with impunity, the BBC are at least complicit in covering up a mass murder. Different standards apply to hamas and the IDF as far as the BBC are concerned, mass murder of unarmed civilians is invisible.

    Mass murder and the BBC is ignoring it as though this barbarity never happened, it is just one example of the blindness that has infected the BBC, can you imagine the BBC led outcry if the IDF had perpetrated this kind of premeditated mass murder on the street? Jon Donnison is silent, the BBC is not interested in the story, oh how their hearts appear to break when the IDF is killing hamas and the innocents they hide behind, no need to check the authenticity of the hamas sourced figures. How about the UN? Will they be making investigations into what amounts to a war crime? No, of course not.

  • BlitheSpirit

    There’s a former Saudi Navy Commodore (Abdulateef Al-Mulhim) that writes for the Arab News. He wrote an article published in October of this year entitled, “Arab Spring and the Israeli enemy” in which he says, when describing various horrors in Arab countries, “The starvation, the killings and the destruction in these Arab countries
    are done by the same hands that are supposed to protect and build the
    unity of these countries and safeguard the people of these countries.
    So, the question now is that who is the real enemy of the Arab world?”

    “The Arab world wasted hundreds of billions of dollars and lost tens of
    thousands of innocent lives fighting Israel, which they considered is
    their sworn enemy, an enemy whose existence they never recognized. The
    Arab world has many enemies and Israel should have been at the bottom of
    the list. The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of
    good education, lack of good health care, lack of freedom, lack of
    respect for the human lives and finally, the Arab world had many
    dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own

  • roger

    I think the Romans started it when the tenth legion razed Jerusalem in about 70 A.D.
    Seriously , The so-called Great Powers that made up the UN after the second world war were not firm enough with all the terrorists who wanted non-secular states. We now live with the result of religious based politics, always a disaster. More disaster to come !

  • Monty

    You guys are so ignorant. Why don’t you learn a bit of history.. Or go on a trip to Palestine and find out what really goes on. The Gaza strip is one big refugee camp (not to dissimilar to a Jewish ghetto from WWll). It is not a state, has no control of its borders and is illegally blockaded by Israel who tightly control all imports including food, water and medical supplies. It’s people have no voice or power. The Palestinians are a frustrated people, they are stateless and have no control over their own destiny. They are the ‘battered wives’ to Israels abusive and bullying husband who takes what he wants when he wants it. What Israel wants is to clear all Palestinians out of ‘their’homeland as it is the land of ‘The chosen people’. If you don’t believe this… Talk to a Zionist. There is no excuse for Hamas to fire missiles indiscriminately at areas of population, it is wrong….. But like an abused wife who lashes out at her abuser…. You can understand why it happens…. Did you know that Palestine has already ceeded 80 percent of its claim to its homeland by way of comprise and yet Israel continues to invade the remaining 20 percent by the continued forced building of illegal settlements?
    When our territory was invaded in the Falklands war…. What did we do?……

  • Lucy

    The self-defence justifications sounds a bit weak when you compare Israel is a
    country with one of the most powerful armies on the planet with a population of 7.5 million people with tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery,
    helicopter gunships and F-16s and F-18s, plus 400 nuclear warheads set
    against the Gaza which is a small occupied territory of 1.7 million
    which has no heavy weaponry except some largely ineffectual rockets. Both sides are wrong in this,l Hamas for firing rockets and Israel for their dis-proportionate response but remember that Israeli incursions have been going on for decades but if you want to pinpoint a start to this latest escalation, it came last wednesday when the Israelis shot and killed a 13 year old boy playing football with his friends. THAT’S when Hamas upped their rockets into Israel which Israel are now replying to. Blame Hamas if you want but get the initial spark right, it was the shooting of an unarmed teenager by an Israeli in a gunship.

  • cyllan

    finally murray , some common sense in this magazine……when i used to read alex massie i wanted to hang myself, i dont read his rubbish anymore…..but the spectator is quite leftist in general

  • statman

    Frankly I don’t give a damn about either the Arabs or the Israelis.What I and conservatives should care about is OUR national interest and for example fighting wars on Israel’s behalf like Iraq isn’t in that interest.Do you seriously think the Zionists in Israel who continue to provoke the Arabs by continuing to expand the settlements and who believe God gave them the right to greater Israel care less about us.
    Why did the US and France collude to give Israel the atomic bomb when that was inevitably going to have disastrous repercussions in the long term.

  • logic

    is this whole thread just full of jews? you all some really stupid views on muslims. the fact is that people in palestine live in pure poverty because of israel the may have thrown the first rocket or may not have but it’s because of the oppression. also believe it or not most of the jews living in israel these days are from europe meaning they have no right being there

  • tal

    I live in Israel. I have to say, thank you.

  • bluesshakeout

    Problem is: nobody remembers that Israel is occupying Palestinian land. Power politics are understandable, especially post-pogrom/holocaust, but they will not lead to peaceful co-existence in that area.

  • autoeuropean

    Lets the Palestinians go and be with their brothers in Syria – its full of brotherly love and respect.

  • David Lindsay

    Not only does the Israeli Government include people who believe that Gentiles were created as beasts of burden and that only Jews are human beings in the Biblical sense of the word (seriously), but the Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, with whom Netanyahu is trying to merge his own party, wants to denaturalise the only two growing sections of the population, namely the ultra-Orthodox Jews and the Arabs, including the ancient indigenous Christians.

    As for Islam, if you are born into certain ethnic minorities in Israel, then you are automatically subject to the jurisdiction of Sharia courts whose rulings are the law of the land, handed down by judges who are appointed and paid by the State. The Islamist citadel of Umm al-Fahm voted almost unanimously to remain in Israel rather than be transferred to the Palestinian Authority.

    Its former Mayor, Raed Saleh, travels the world proudly on his Menorah passport as head of the Islamic Movement in Israel: that is his organisation’s name. Ibrahim Sarur’s call for Jerusalem to become the capital of the Caliphate is manifestly compatible with his oath and responsibilities as a member of the Knesset.

    It is quite obvious that most people commenting here, including the one above the line, have not the faintest idea what Israel is like, or what Israel is.

    • Rahul Kamath

      You could have added to your list that the Arab political parties will be in permanent opposition in the Knesset as none of the Jewish parties will ever invite them into coalition including Labour and Kadima never mind Likud and its assorted neo-fascist crazies.

  • Mr Dumpling
    • anotherjoeblogs

      does his name – Jihad – translate as mister inner struggle ? i am sure the vast majority of israelis are not overjoyed and handing out choccies when they read about the tragic death of mr inner struggle’s lovely kid.

  • paul

    If Hamas rockets kill an Israeli granny, obviously an Israeli jet should bomb a Palestinian granny. That would be proportionality.

  • Steven Kane

    thank you sir

  • Kevin

    “Yet because of the way in which this is reported”

    I thought you recommended that we “don’t shoot the BBC”?

  • OPLucas

    > 3 Israelis killed
    > 19 Palestinians killed


  • Marcus

    End the Israeli blockade of Gaza, let the people of Gaza have self-determination free of Israeli harrassment, and this would stop.

    • T. Botham

      Self-determination = unimpeded war against Israel. Do you not believe Hamas?

  • hashemite

    “The state of Gaza reflects the moral bankruptcy of both sides: of Hamas, whose only idea for governing the territory is to use it as a giant launch pad for firing rockets at neighbouring civilians, and of successive Israeli governments, who see the territory only as a security problem to be corralled and, on occasion, bombarded”…for a more nuanced view from David Blair than douglas ‘warmonger’ murray.

    • T. Botham

      No. No equivalency. Firing rockets is a security problem. So Hamas is morally bankrupt and Israel properly defending its citizens. David Blair’s “nuance” is idiotic.

  • paul

    Well, during the 2nd millennium BC, Ancient Egyptian texts use the term Canaan to refer to an Egyptian-ruled colony, and …. no, only joking

  • Golden Showers

    Ooops!You kind of forgot to say that Palestinians have the right to resist occupation and theft of land, life and liberty. .

    • Depends

      Oops! Another accidental dribble of nonsense. There is no right to resist occupation. They fight in order to steal land, kill Jews and establish another despotism. Urine a mess.

  • Daniel Maris

    The Palestinians have a legitimate grievance. Let’s not forget that Palestinian Christians as well as Palestinian Muslims have opposed what Israel has done in the region, particularly the settlements in Gaza, Sinai (let’s not forget – now dismantled) and the West Bank.

    However, the followers of Sharia seek the elimination of Jews from the area and the destruction of the UN approved state of Israel. Such an outrage cannot be allowed to happen. That is why we have to support Israel.

    But it does not mean we have to support everything Israel says and does.

    • T. Botham

      No. The Palestinians have no legitimate national grievance against Israel. To remind you: The invention after the War of a pre-War Palestinian national interest is a worked-up pretext for Arab powers’ (and Iran’s ) eliminationist policies. Arabs do have economic grievances and civil grievances, although the Arabs from the region of the Mandate live best in Israel where they have citizenship, and worse with varying degrees of oppression and civil disability in every other Arab state (many of which were created as states by Western powers, as Israel was) or quasi state (Gaza and West Bank ). Particularly ironic is the plight of Arab Mandatory Palestinians in Jordan – whether refugees from the War against Israel, or “indigenous” ie present across the Jordan at the time Transjordan was carved off from Palestine. Why do they not have a national grievance against Jordan, demand liberation and self-determination from the colonial Hashemites installed by Britain? Arab Christians live best in Israel, although some sects publicly blame Jews for the extortion and intimidation by Arab Muslims (to appease their intimidators).

      Thank-you for spotting the eliminationist outrage and your stand against it. But do you see how, in the context of that outrage, your reservation of the right (which no-one denies or could deny) to kibitz some Israeli speech and action, might be a bit silly? But go ahead…

  • Henry Storm

    Why does Hamas need 1000’s rockets- to feed the people in Gaza?
    Why does Egypt allow, condone and support the smuggling of these rockets into Gaza?
    Where was the media and the UN as 800 rockets (3 A DAY) were fired into Israel in 2012 alone?
    Get rid of ALL the rockets and ALL the terrorists and maybe the people in Gaza can build a proper life!

    • Dan Rowlatt

      Amazing – not a word said about Israel’s massive army, or the USA funding it and arming it with the latest bombs, fighter jets, chemical and nuclear weapons. Astonishing double standards. Are the Palestinians not allowed to arm themselves in any way? I know that’s what Israel wants, and what it’s trying to achieve, but the double standards are breathtaking. Anybody would think the Palestinians had blood on their hands for ‘Cast Lead’. In fact it was the wonderful beacon of democracy, Israel, which managed to slaughter some 1300 people, including almost a 1000 civilians, in the space of three weeks. If that is what the ‘sole democracy in the Middle East’ is capable of, then heaven help us!

      • T. Botham

        Keeping up with equivalency/ proportionality moral idiocy is a hard game of whack-a-mole.

        Assuming you could arrange for exactly even arms and casualties (proportional to population, or absolutely?) on both sides, do you think that the war becomes moral? A fair fight? Is it a no-win outcome you wish for (pretty much the status quo, as Israel forbears to use wipe-out power)? Or are you trying to argue that superior weapons and greater killing capacity delegitimizes the war for the side that has them? If at the bottom of this squawking of “double standards”, is the desire for Arabs to eliminate Israel, then surely you should be demanding that the Arabs get superior weapons to the Israelis and should use them. Does a fair war (refereed by whom?) vindicate the righteousness of the victor or the loser?

  • James Strong

    Hamas hurl hundreds of rockets into civilian areas.

    Israel uses modern technology to target and kill a Hamas leader.

    There is no equivalence here.

    Sam Harris in his book ‘The End of Faith’ introduced the concept of the perfect weapon.

    Imagine a weapon that was guaranteed to destroy and kill any target chosen but leave no collateral damage at all.

    Does anybody believe that Hamas and Israel would have the same targetting policy?

    Of course they wouldn’t.

    Israel would target military leaders and installations; Hamas would target Jews in general.

    Tell the truth about the Religion of Peace and how it fails every civilised test.

    • Marcus

      No, Hamas and Palestinians just want a bit of land back and self-determination, free from Israeli occupation and harassment. Israel is dripping in blood – an abhorrent militarised regime which killed 1300 in the barbarity of 2008-09 in Gaza. So much for surgical strikes! It was medieval savagery, carried out with impunity while the West looked on. Too many people believe the propaganda about the heroic Israeli military intelligence. When they fight with equals, as in Lebanon in 2006, they are thoroughly humiliated – the bodybags being lifted onto helicopters in full view of the TV cameras is evidence of that.

      • T. Botham

        “Fight with equals?” Lebanon 2006 was a classic example of asymmetric warfare. Israel had a choice: inflict further damage on the civilian shields or get out. It got out. Israeli humiliation? It is very hard to turn a terrorist into a hero, and it is not accomplished by gloating over a higher-than-usual Jewish body bag count attributable to tactics seeking to minimize Arab civilian casualties. The Arabs have yet to win a war against Israel. That humiliation hurts. But it is hardly redeemed by Lebanon 2006.

        How about the “medieval” (?) savagery in Syria? You looking on? How abhorrent is the Assad regime, the power behind Hizbollah, the Victors of Lebanon?

      • Malfleur

        Your people came storming out of Arabia in the 7th century to lay waste our classical Judaeo-Christian civilization along the north African littoral. We want our land back.

  • Andy Gill

    The UK and he EU should come out in full support of Israel. We have learned that appeasement does not work, and the west needs to show a united front against terrorism. Some Muslims in the west won’t like it, but some will stand with us.

    • salieri

      Wishful thinking, I’m afraid. The EU comes out in full support of only one thing: the EU. Muslims condemning other Muslims and backing Israel? Forget it. As for the west, the last time it showed a united front was… ah, I’ll have to come back to you about that.

  • salieri

    Actually, your question was put in exactly those terms by John Humphrys to the BBC’s Gaza correspondent at prime time on the Today Programme yesterday morning. The answer? No ifs, no buts: Israel started it with the assassination.

  • Eddie

    Israel is not perfect, but the British media always shows massive bias against Israel. I think the reason is this:

    People have misunderstood the nature of being ‘liberal-minded’ – in the politically correct circles of the so-called ‘liberal elite’, (as displayed by the BBC and others), being ‘liberal’ means the following: supporting anyone with a dark skin and a minority religion, even if they are Islamofascistic spreaders of bigotry, oppression, racism and hate; being against Israel because it stands up to the aforementioned.
    Perhaps it’s the Jews’s fault again: it’s their fault for not being black (mostly)!

    It would be silly to think that the pandering to immigrant communities and minority religions in the UK has not been a factor in this peculiar evolution – one that sees self-defined ‘liberals’ supporting Islamic terrorists yet condemning anyone who opposes them as ‘the enemy’, and labelling Israel – a democracy with a free press in which Arabs are allowed to do any job a Jew does and even become high court judges! – a facist state, not noticing that it is in fact by far the most tolerant country in the middle east.

    Anyone who automatically condemns Israel and supports any Islamic fascist country around it is either ignorant, stupid, hypocritical or all three – and they are not socially liberal either ikf they support Islamofacists. Appeasers, yes. Cowards, usually. Liberal-minded? Nope.

    • victor67

      There is nothing Liberal about Israel under Netanyahu and Lieberman. Even the Zionist left condone the the continued colonization of Palestine. So its not as simple as being opposed to radical Islam mean you will support Israel.

      • Eddie

        No, but ANY Israel is more liberal-minded and tolerant than ANY Islamic country around it. Remember, 10% of the Israeli population is Arab – and the judge who convicted a former PM was an Arab too! The press is free, the courts are independent, the society is pluralistic and tolerant – for women, gay people, anyone who wants to live a life of freedom.
        Compare please to the Islamofascist states surrounding Israel who refuse to allow jews or non-Muslims to live there, and constanlt spew hatred against jews in their Islamist media.
        It really is as simple as that.
        And it is disgraceful that all the thick little leftwing sheep in Britain just follow the left’s usual love of Arabs (which in turn is copying the Soviets and their anti-semitism) and the media’s bias to somehow portray the only democracy in that region as the problem, and to defend what are Islamofascist states.
        Me, I support the enlightened against the fascistic. The unthinking support be leftwingers inthe UK for any Muslim extremist anywhere is 1) racist, because they would not support a white person with the same fascistic views; 2) anti- semitic – because yes, though people say ‘Israel’, we all know what they mean.
        I am not Jewish but am disgusted by the utter hypocrisy of people who attack the only democracy in the Middle East – Israel – and support the dictatorships that surround it and others. I mean, if they are so concerned about human rights, maybe they should protest about what other dictatorships do – places like China, Cuba, Venusuela etc etc etc. No, but it’s always Israel isn’t it?
        Israel is not perfect – but I can fully understand their paranoia and desure to defend themselves, surrounded as they as by Islamofascist states who hate Jews and want to ‘gring their bones and dump them at sea’ (I am quoting the former PLO leader there – the mate of Hitler).
        The leftwing in the UK is an utter disgrace. They are backing the fascists in this war – appeasers and traitors to our values, and soon to their brothers and friends no doubt. Betrayal kind of leades there eventually.

        • Eddie

          Now minus the typos… Zzzzz….

          “Israel is not perfect – but I can fully understand their paranoia and desire to defend themselves, surrounded as they as by Islamofascist states who hate Jews and want to ‘grind their bones and dump them at sea’ (I am quoting the former PLO leader there – the mate of Hitler).

          The leftwing in the UK is an utter disgrace. They are backing the fascists in this war – appeasers and traitors to our values, and soon to their brothers and friends no doubt. Betrayal kind of leads there eventually.

          • Marcus

            Nothing to do with Islam, Eddie. Israel occupied Gaza militarily for 38 years, then unilaterally ‘withdrew’ in 2005 – that was a sham, as the IDF still control Gaza’s borders, airspace and coast – and turns the supplies of water, electricity and medicines on and off at will. What do you expect the people of Gaza to do, just sit back and let the Israelis humiliate them? The Israelis are dripping in blood. They massacred 1300 people in Gaza in the barbarous attack in 2008-09. About a hundred times more than the number of Israeli dead at the hands of Palestinians. You talk of fascists – yes, the UK is backing the fascists – the militaristic state of Israel – led by military men for almost its entire history – a thoroughly militarised, violence-worshipping disgrace, armed to the teeth and ready to use the latest weaponry to kill innocent civilians, be it in Palestine, Lebanon or even Sudan, recently. Did you actually hear Mr Hague on R4 this morning, Eddie? He laid the blame for the events at Hamas’s door; all he could say about Israel was that they needed a de-escalation. No Western govt would dare criticise Israel or its warmongering.

            • Eddie

              Question: is Hamas a terrorist organisation? Have you even READ their constitution? If translated into German it is very ‘art deco; y’know – could have been written anytime in the 1930s by the fwend of the Palistinians (you know, the one with the funny moustaches).

              The Gaza situation has been engineered by Islamic states as a stick with which to beat Israel. Those Arab states have deliberately kept the people of Gaza poor and lacking supplies – they could relieve their suffering at any minute.

              But teh time has come to sort this out: the Arabs should back off, and allow Israel to have their land. They should also agree to Israel’s right to exist. They should also allow jews to live in their countries as Israel allows Arabs to live there.

              If you think that the democracy ruled by manmadfe law called Israel is a fascist state and that the Islamofasct dictatorships that surround it are not, then there is only one word to describe you: idiot. Typical leftie sheep no doubt. Baaaaaaaaaaaaa……

            • taqiyya aware

              Markus, your hatred of Israel sadly blinds you to the truth. If the Palestinians wanted peace they would have had it by now, but they don’t want peace do they?, they want the destruction of the Jews. Their hatred is derived from their religion of hate and that includes hatred of you too unless you convert to Islam. This is Jihad, waged against the Jews in the same way Mohammad himself destroyed all the Jews in Arabia boasting ‘I am made victorious through terror’

              The Land of Israel wants peace, it is the only democracy in the Middle East and occupies less than 1% of the land, but it is surrounded by those who would destroy her. She has traded lands won in war back to the Arabs in exchange for peace, She has released hundreds on Terrorists in exchange for a single soldier, She pulled out of Gaza, all for peace, but all she has got in return is more terrorism.

              So why support bloodthirsty terrorists who have fired countless rockets into civilian areas, or have tried to target school buses in the hope of killing Jewish kids?. Does not any country have the right to defend itself?, particularly when experience of inaction led to 6 million jewish dead—men women and children, though it is admitted that any defence against muslims waging Jihad is considered aggression in Islam. But you seem blind to all these things and filled with anger at what you do not understand.

              Mr Hague for once has got it right. Responsibility for all the deaths lie a Hamas’s door it is they that want the destruction of Israel and only that will satisfy them.

            • cyllan

              lies lies and more lies, after 10 years of rocketsisrael spends a month hunting terrorist in gaza, the Palis shoot rockects from schools hospitals using human shields, they boobytrap cars, they put on civilan uniforms…and at the end of the month only 650 90%+ terrorists die, even in the assasination of the hamas leader they wait till the car in the oposite direction passes through before they hit the hamas assasin with a very low yield missile.
              meanwhile the democratic elected hamas has a charter to rival hitler, no more no less.
              it is sick that schools bus ,stations and hospitals in israel are bomb resistant…….the hamas scum last week killed 3 people , 1 a pregnant woman.
              since 1948 the arabs have 1 mission, and 1 mission only exterminate israel, they tried 4-5 times by conventional war and failed….israel thrives , the arabs live in the 7th century……they have invented nothing , exported nothing but oil and terrorism
              NO PEACE WITH ISRAEL
              so go and get lost jew hater

              • cyllan

                and by the way jordan occupied the west bank since 1967 for about 10-15 years and nobody screamed ocupation, there are nearly a million palis in jordan and the jordan goverment does not grant them any citizenship rights….they know who they are and what they represent.
                and if you want to talk about ABBAS , disciple of terrorist ARAFAT (who won a nobel prize for peace…..o the irony) and whose doctorate was about holocaust denial!!!!!!!
                why does his office , palestinian schools, and television paint palestine territory from ramallah to gaza to the whole of israel?????????
                how do you negotiate with somebody who thinks you should be dead?
                people are learning, people are slowly watching….you cant lie anymore and get away with it

            • Simon

              What on earth did Palestinians think would happen when they voted for Hamas?
              Did they think this would lead to an harmonious future with Israel? Of course they didn’t。
              They want this conflict to continue at any cost。They will not be happy until Israel ceases to exist。They are the authors of their own misery,and they are the true warmongers。
              What do we expect the people of Gaza to do? We expect them to grow up. We expect them to stop humiliating themselves。We expect them to behave in a civilized manner and stop raining rockets and mortars at civilians in Israel。
              Really not too much to expect,is it?

            • John

              YOU SAID “Nothing to do with Islam”

              I will always be suspicious of Islam -because – it’s illegal to build a church or synagogue in Saudi Arabia. Can you imagine how bad you would feel if Israel or USA made building mosques illegal ? And Saudi Arabia is the spiritual home of Islam.

              ISLAM 101

              1. Instead of drinking sensibly – they ban alcohol

              2. Instead of asking women to dress modestly – they’re put in black sacks.

              3.Instead of having adult relationships they cut the clitoris off females and marry children.

              4. Instead of a smack on the wrist for stealing an apple – “its amputation for you young boy.”

              5. Draw a cartoon of Muhammed………..DEATH

              6. Leave the religion…………………………DEATH

              7. Write a book of fiction critcising

              Mohammad…………………………………….. DEATH

              8. Create a majority Jewish country in an area that “Must remain Islamic for all time”……….. ………………….DEATH

              9. Adultery………………………………………..DEATH

              11. Have a relationship with a non Muslim…DEATH

              10. Don’t accept Islam is the one true faith ? Then it’s submission for you or –

              you’ve guessed it


              These things are also in the Bible but as you know to your horror the difference between Muslims as a pose to Christians and Jews is that Muslims carry out this slaughter across the Muslim world on a daily basis.

              Do you really think they are going to leave Israelis alone in the future ?

          • Augustus

            I agree. We in Europe need to understand how closely intertwined are the fates of Israel and of Europe itself. The term “Judeo-Christian” is not a cliche. We cannot defend Western civilization without defending its Jewish component, without which modern Western culture would have been unthinkable. We cannot change what has happened in the past. We should, however, consider it our duty to combat anti-Semitism in the here and now and make sure that the remaining Jews both in Europe and in Israel are safe. This is not just because it is our moral and historical obligation, but also because we only gain the right to defend ourselves against Islamization if we grant the same right to Israel, and embrace the Jewish component of our cultural identity.

            • Eddie

              There are many reports of teachers in UK schools turning a blind eye to anti-semitism – esp for the Muslim kids (the UK has many more Muslims than Jews). The term ‘Jewish’ is used as an insult now as it hasn’t been used for decades – and ‘gay’ is used in the same way.

              Many teachers of course ignore this – even if they dislike it, they feel unable to challenge anyone with a dark skin and a religion – the education system, councils, the BBC, constantly pander to the demands of anyone with a dark skin and a religion – so much so that in UK schools now, half of science teachers teach evolution as just one theory and state creationism and socalled intelligent design is equally as valid – a betrayal of scientific fact and our rational, enlightened culture.

              • Dominique Jones

                I’m black (mixed if you want to get technical) and Jewish. A descendant of both European and Arab Jewry how survived the midst horrible persecution and discrimination, funny how the anti-Zionists seem to forget that almost a million Jews were violently expelled form Muslim majority countries and they’re assets seized after Israel declared independence, so please don’t lump everyone with dark skin and a religion into one boat. Other than that I agree with everything you have said.

        • Shorne

          Well said Eddie although I think the use of the term Anti-Zionist by those who dare not describe themselves as anti-Semitic needs to be emphasised more strongly (rather as right-wing Americans berate Obama for being Muslim when they mean black). Also an interesting exercise I find is to Google “Things invented in Israel” and “Things invented in Arab States since 1948”. I’m not Jewish either.

          • Eddie

            If one hurls about at Israel and verbally attacks ‘Zionists’ then one cannot get arrested under the race relations act for inciting racial hatred; if one used the word ‘Jew’, then one can be arrested.
            That is why the jew-hating Islamosfacists and their hypocritical leftwing appeasers use the word ‘Zionist’ and attack ‘Israel’.
            They mean Jews of course – because Muslims believe like Hitler that they control the world and should be eradicated.
            You can buy Mein Kamff translated into Arabic and English in all good Mosque bookshops, Do you think that is because there is a sudden spate amongst Muslim teenagers for taking A level history?

            • Malfleur

              “If one hurls about at Israel and verbally attacks ‘Zionists’ then one cannot get arrested under the race relations act…”

              Nor, it would seem, under the The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.

          • victor67

            Does Netanyahu and Israel speak and act on behalf of all jews? They think they do but many jews want nothing today with the more extreme forms of zionism that has become mainstream in Israel. You can critique Zionism and not in any way be anti-semitic.
            Holding up the Islamist bogeyman is just a way of deflecting from the crimes of the Israeli state against the Palestinians and their neighbours.

            • Malfleur

              Why do you support the fascist-islamicist groups who produce the propaganda which you regurgitate? Have you ever tried to think for yourself? It can be liberating.

            • Eddie

              But you can be sure as hell that they don’t agree with Hamas of any other Islamic extremists! Of course, in Israel – a democracy – people are allowed to disagree with each other, as in all pluralistic societies; in Arab and Muslim states, you have to believe in one version of Islam or you’ll get tortured and killed. Have you any idea about the people you are so quick to defend?
              Yes, you CAN criticise Zionism and not be anti-semitic – but usually, gthe two and intertwined, frankly.
              But tell me please: what exactly is the difference between Hamas’s opinion and that of the nazis? If the Hamas declaration was translated into German it would be almost the same as the Nazi manifesto from the 30s!
              Isalamist bogey man? Nope – the very real Islamism you appease, mate – just like French socialists appeased Hitler in the 30s. Until they got invaded that is.

        • Dan Rowlatt

          I love how you bring gay rights into all your posts, as a way to have a dig at Arabs of black people’s implied homophobia. Are you a big supporter of gay rights in the UK – age of consent, same sex education in schools, anti-gay bullying campaigns, gay marriage rights, adoption rights for same-sex couples? I’d love to know. It’s just that you seem to have a problem with a lot of so-called PC policies – and often mention how British society has been feminised. How does this square with your evident concern for gay rights, and how they are enshrined in western democracies?

          • Dan Rowlatt

            I meant to write: Arabs’ or black people’s implied homophobia

          • Eddie

            Black and Arab people’s implied homophobia?
            Nothing implied, mate.
            In Israel, people can be free as individuals – free to hold any political or religious opinion, free to be atheists, free to be gay. Show me ONE Muslicm country where that is true eh? So WHY THE F are so-called liberals in the UK supporting Islamofascists whose beliefs are really bigoted and extreme? This is the great bg leftwing elephant in the room eh?
            Most black and Asian people in the UK are very socially conservative – because of religion and culture – and the same applied in the US and European states: white people are way more liberal minded in the UK than blacks or Asians. The research and evidence shows this clearly; I also saw this when teaching white, black and Asian people.
            I am socially liberal and tolerant – which is NOT the same thing as being ‘politically correct’ and imposing that bastard ideology on everyone, accusing them to being racist etc if they refuse to parrot pc platitudes.

      • Eddie

        victor – Israel under ANY leader is more liberal than ANY Aarab state – because Israel is a nation in the Western pluralistic model, with an independent judiciary (including Arabs judges!), a free press, freedom fo speech etc.

        None of your beloved Islamic states is anywhere near as liberal as Israel.

        The big baffling question is why lefties like you think you are liberal-minded by supporting people who are essentially Islamic fascists and anti-semites who are opposed to human rights, democracy, pluralism and tolerance. is it because they is black? Is it becoz they is Muslim?

        You remind me of the appeasers of Nazi-ism – the way you are ultra-critical of countries which are Western democracies by have no criticism for the Islamic dictatorships you support. Why pick on Israel, a democratci state? Why not attack the very many countries which are not democracies eh? Like all Muslim countries or China or Cuba or your hero Chavez’s regime?

      • Malfleur

        The real question you should be asking yourself, an unwelcome and unfamiliar exercise I know, is why the Arabs wish to colonise the parts of Israel which they have not already colonised.

      • roger

        Having visited Israel and the West Bank over the last 40 years I must say I noticed the country improved financially but declined morally after they started electing the terrorist premiers Begin and Shamir. The decline of the Kibbutz and the influx of American and Russian zealots helped accelerate the decline.

      • roger

        I think you mean condemn not condone.

  • victor67

    “Who started it” ?
    Arthur Lord Balfour (1917) I guess a colonial power promising someone else land and homes to a 3rd party was never going to be a good idea.

    • Baron

      You’ve got it in one, victor67, if only Lord Balfour wasn’t born, the Middle East would be today a land of peace, brotherly love and honey.

    • Austin Barry

      Victor, it’s Islam contra mundum. Forget Balfour.

    • Augustus

      You forget (either conveniently or out of ignorance) that the Balfour Declaration also protected the civil rights of all segements of the population, though there is no mention in it of the political rights of Arabs. This is neither forgetfulness nor neglect. Maintaining
      proper proportionality was achieved by giving full political rights to Arabs in
      Syria, Lebanon and Iraq. In 1946 Jordan was established on 77 percent of the
      territory allocated to the Jews. So where is this stealing of your precious Arabs’
      land in all of this?

      • victor67

        Pity the Israel’s never protected the civil rights of the Palestinian arabs. I gues when Ben Gurion relised immigration alone would not ensure a jewish state and therefore implemented the ethnic clensing of Plan Delat.

  • Andrew Saint

    A plague on both their houses. Hamas firing rockets into Israel from Gaza is inexcusable, especially as the Israelis voluntarily withdrew from Gaza, anticipating peace. BUT equally inexcusable is the inexorable rise in ‘Jews-only’ housing developments on Palestinian land, something which brings into doubt the commitment by the Israelis (or at least their present Israeli government) to a lasting peace based on respect for both sides.

    • T. Botham

      There is no “Palestinian land.” Jews building housing is not “equally inexcusable” – morally or legally – with Hamas firing rockets. It is that sort of thinking that has plagued peace.

  • anotherjoeblogs

    firing rockets from gaza is not seen as an act of aggression but an act of defence, burning embassies and effigies is not seen as aggression but defence, sawing off the heads of the infidel is not aggression but defence. to be permanently on the defence is the raison d’etre of those who follow the religion of perpetual defence and it is as intrinsic as breathing is for any form of life. The reason they don’t own up for any aggression/attack/starting it is that this is their default position and is not seen as a voluntary action with some focus on result, it is simply ‘ being ‘.

  • The Elderking

    Palestinians are only victims of their own murderous cult and endemic racial hatred of the Jews. They could have peace, prosperity and happiness – but they have decided to just scream and scream until they are sick.

    • anotherjoeblogs

      whenever we talk about this racial hatred, we must mention the shame of islam – the shame of not being able to build up a workable society for kids to grow up and to perform the real ‘ macho ‘ role of being a breadwinner and not being dependent on the infidel. since they can not express their male as protector and giver, the shame is morphed into man as the warrior with the inevitable victim being the successful jew.

      • Taqiyya aware

        The shame is the Koran, because it promotes Jihad/war as a religious duty and singles out the Jews for special hatred. When are we going to stop pretending otherwise. There will never be peace, whether the Middle East, India, Indonesia or any where else until Muslims are free of belief in the Koran.

        • anotherjoeblogs

          i agree that shame STEMS from the koran because it speaks of islamic supremacy but the reality is that empirical evidence shows that it doesn’t create anything superior – take societies for example, where individuals live in ignorance and poverty and try to escape them in masses.the result being mass cognitive dissonance and the desire/need to turn the evidence of non-islamic societies into dar al islam or utterly destroy them

        • poke

          brother you do not understand the Qura’an…Jihad is of many types,the most important of them is to simply hate oppression and injustice from your heart,and it is the most rewarding.we are not meant to kill innocent civilians brother,it is considered in Islam as killing the entire mankind.please research before you speak against our Holy Book.the world needs more educated offense to you,i do not know your religion,so i will not shouldnt either.

          • Steel

            So, basically there are violent Muslim hypocrites just like there are violent Christian hypocrites (because Jesus also preached peace). It’s a shame that people use peaceful religions to justify evil.

            • poke

              people will blame and ask questions all the time.but they wont sit nd listen to other’s reason.thts how Allah(swt) predicted man to become.and this blog makes me believe in Him evermore.

          • John

            The only reason Muslims believe in Martyrdom and Jihad is because they have nothing better to believe.

            • poke

              your useless words are the sole reason why innocent people die everyday…coz they arent worth anything…all u do is discourage,but u cant find a solution that can serve both parties well.israelis and palestinis have died,nd are still dying.who cares which way the media is biased?y cant u simply suggest solutions to the crises?Muslims believe in martyrdom just as much as freedom fighters do…have u ever fought a war?its not like having a bar of chocolate,not that u wud a freedom fighter and a Muslim.and fighting a war takes more balls and more faith in what ur fightin for than u can ever before u spill,please shut up and think abt what u r saying sir.just coz ur a supporter of either one side doesnt mean u can bitch without reason about the other.speak sense.

              • John

                The threat level is severe – meaning a terrorist attack is highly likely.

                This threat mainly comes from Muslims.

          • ak

            Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

            Poke, YOU need to do some research:

            Quran (5:32) “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land it would be as if he slew the whole people.”

            Your MISquotation has an exception clause: “unless …for spreading mischief”. Meaning your Quran says you can kill whoever without guilt if it falls under this exception – “spreading mischief”, which is wide enough to include anything that is not in agreement with your cult.

            Read the very next verse:

            Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

            • poke

              im sorry brother but are u referring us to as God?these are God’s words, and what He does with those who disobey Him is His right and His doing,it doesnt give us the right to kill innocent people…and as for those who wage war against our God Allah (swt)…God doesnt need our protection brother, He merely asks us to look out for each other. If someone attacked and bitched about ur family continuously,wud u stand by and let be? i think not. Islam has shaped as such that all Muslims are our brothers and sisters, and if there r people out to get my brothers and sisters,i dnt abt u, but im not going to stand by nd watch them being killed.yes i will wage war against those who harm my brothers and sisters if need be. wudnt u?I live in a country where when an incident of injustice occurs,people vandalise cars and block traffic for ours and beat each other up.they do this not for injustice,but for the heck of it.its not what islam teaches us. we must protect our brothers and sisters at whatever cost necessary.but we are prohibited from harming innocent people.if Hamas ahs hurt innocent and harmless people of Israel,they must be held accountable,im in full support.But please,just because Hamas did it,doesnt mean u can justify Israel’s reciprocation by doing the same.u wudnt bite a dog if it bit u wud u?



    • anotherjoeblogs


      • Eddie

        Yep, and I think they’ve applied for a council grant to have a festival celebrating ‘Palestinian Culture’ – there’ll be lots of fireworks, and a few deaths, but that’s their culture, so hey, anyone who criticises it is just an Islamophobic racist ripe for diversity training…

    • abdousset

      which explains why the rockets are causing such a blast in gaza as the IDF bombs the rockets before they can be launched.

    • OldSlaughter

      I am with you 100%. I would point out however that fireworks probably kill more people in the UK than those ‘rockets and missiles’ do over there.

  • Linda Le Roux

    I fully agree with the final paragraph of the article. There are many Palestinian apologists being very vocal, as they always are, and the media often given them a very loud voice. Will the British media ever be fair and balanced in their reporting of the Israeli/Palestinian situation? I don’t think so.

    • Malfleur

      May be we should set up a British broadcasting company with that principle embedded in its constitution?

    • poke

      BBC,the world’s biggest news channel is Israel-biased,and it has been proven time and again.palestinis are trying to reach out but thanks to the big media corporations and their tricks,they cant.a bunch of teenagers can see the palestinis’ plight on facebook,wow,what a big help they’ll b.their voices wont reach the people who can make a difference,thts the plan,and it has worked out well so far.

  • Andy

    RE: media bias, I guess after Cast Lead and the Gaza naval blockade, killing hundreds and causing terrible suffering to the 1.5 million residents, there aren’t many people left who want to buy papers and read articles that see things from the Israeli side. Very brave of you to show another angle.

  • Vulture

    The only thing wrong with your post, Douggie, is your closing line that Israel is ‘behaving with more restraint than this country would in the face of such barbarism’.

    Judging by their record with Abu Quatada, faced with a constant rocket bombardment the Cameron Government would seek out the commander of the rocket battery, make him a member of the House of Lords, line him up with a Guardian column and a BBC talk show and install him and his harem in a North London home worth £11 million and paid for by the Briitish taxpayer.

    ~Britain has lost its spine, its balls and its brains.

    • ron freeman

      here, here

    • Austin Barry

      Couldn’t we just sneak Abu’s Quatada’s coordinates to the IDF or Mossad?

      It’s an amusing prospect to imagine only Abu’s taxpayer-funded, designer sandals, smoking gently, emerging from the remnants of his similarly taxpayer-funded halal supper. Insha’ Allah.

      • Noa

        Or, let he and Tommy Robinson share a cell. Better still, put him in the one vacated by Mr Robinson, England’s first political prisoner under the Coalition.

        • Taqiyya aware


  • AY

    British MSM (as well as whole non-muslim population) are hostages of oil and terror.
    country leaves under the threat of muslim sabotage and riots.
    MSM are pro-islamic anti Israeli because they are bribed and intimidated.

    it is also psychologically comforting to condemn the other for doing something you are unable to do.
    on the one side – the nation unable to remove triumphant terrorrist from their streets.
    on the other side – the nation eliminating terrorists without hesitation.
    one should expect here some sort of envy.

    • T. Botham

      Perhaps there is a Stockholm Syndrome at work, but I see it as a flare-up of the old, ineradicable, incurable, eternal European cultural rabies.