Coffee House

UKIP are being taken more seriously but they have got to cut out the unforced errors

4 November 2012

4 November 2012

With UKIP regularly challenging the Liberal Democrats for third place in the polls, the party is now beginning to be treated with the seriousness it deserves. In an interview on the Sunday Politics, Nigel Farage made his usual, spiky case for leaving the European Union.

Farage argued that he wants a free-trade deal with the rest of the EU and that the other countries would agree because ‘they need us more than we need them’. Even if Farage is right on the numbers, there’s a major doubt if the rest of Europe would be inclined to cut a deal in the wake of a British exit: a country leaving and then prospering outside would be very damaging to the European project.

There was, though, a reminder that UKIP isn’t yet as disciplined as a party that aspires to be a major force in British politics has to be. Under questioning from Andrew Neil, Farage had to concede that he was several months later in posting the details of his expenses claims online as he had promised to do and that his deputy was more than a year late in filing his. There’s no evidence of wrongdoing here. But it is a crass error for a party to promise transparency and then fail to deliver it.

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  • Rebecca Taylor

    Mr Farage wasn’t several months late posting expenses, he hasn’t published any since 2010, making him the only South East MEP not to do so. He did not deny what Neil said, but claimed he had “been very busy” and had “lost his receipts”.

  • David Julian Price

    I think Nigel Farage did pretty well up against Andrew Neil. Alex Salmond is supposed to be a political superstar, but Neil nailed him last week, yet failed to get Nige on Sunday. Still, Neil is right to lambast Nigel for breaking pledges re: UKIP accounts. It’s just a small point but Nigel has to get this sort of thing right, if UKIP are to become a mainstream (“serious”) party, which I hope and expect them to.

  • TBaltwad

    The downside of their poll rise for UKIP is that they are coming under more intense scrutiny. They have got off lightly hitherto, by and large, but Andrew Neil’s tough questioning on Sunday is probably a sign of things to come. Neil himself is someone who has treated Farage with some indulgence in the past, which is why Farage probably thought he could get away yet again with the same old flippant answers about his broken promises on financial transparency.

    The other thing the media have let him away with for too long is his dodgy alliances with extremists in the European Parliament. Again we see the same pattern of firm promises easily made and easily broken, because Farage thinks no-one in the UK ever looks or cares. Last year his Italian ally, Mario Borghezio, made some awful remarks praising the ideas of Anders Breivik and Farage demanded Borghezio’s removal from the grouping if he did not apologise and retract. But the other Italians said they would all leave the grouping too if Borghezio was forced out, which would mean the end of the whole grouping. Farage and UKIP get EU funding from their membership of the grouping, so the whole matter was swept under the carpet.

    Borghezio, knowing Farage will not stop him, just gets worse and worse. Last weekend he addressed an extreme-right rally in Southern France and proclaimed “Long live the whites of Europe! Long live our race!” Will Farage finally detach himself and his UKIP colleagues from this terrible man? Well, Mr Farage, if you don’t, that is your choice, but your uncomfortable encounter with Mr Neil should tell you that you can’t get away with these scandalous things anymore and assume no-one in the UK media will notice.

  • JabbaTheCat

    Brillo shows that Farage has no depth on Sunday Politics…

  • John Maloney

    Is it not true that UKIP is full of Freemasons and Common Purpose graduates?

  • Boudicca_Icenii

    If the Leaders of LibLabCON were being interviewed by Andrew Neill, he would not have spent half of the allotted time questioning him about the on-line publication of his expenses .
    Yes, it was valid to ask the question and yes, if Farage promised to upload them bi-annually then he should do it. But one is left with the feeling that, once again, the BBC in the guise of a political interviewer, is simply doing its level best to smear and trash UKIP without giving a proper platform for its policies.
    In the week where an anti-EU Amendent beat the Government and in 2013, our borders are completely opened to millions of Rumanians and Bulgarians, there were surely more pressing things to discuss.
    This was BBC bias on display yet again.

  • Nick

    But the Bush/Blair wars did kill British service personnel & they are still being killed for no good reason.The life of one British serviceman/woman is not worth losing for the Arabs.

  • Nick

    I can’t wait for the next GE when I will vote for UKIP.Why should I vote Tory or Labour when those parties are virtually identical? The Tories promised to deal with the immigration problem but it’s still spiralling out of control & look at the sleazy relationship between Cameron & the Murdoch empire.They’re corrupt to the very core & we all know it & our government criticises governments like the Russian one for corruption…..What a joke?

  • Nigel Carter

    Par for the course. Nigel won the interview (got on there) and then won the interview (made his points and batted away the inevitable challenges – weak ones: that was all they could find: ‘You’re a bit late filing your expenses while boosting your poll rating from 2% to 12%, tsk, tsk. Been a bit busy, have we?’) nc5nov12

  • William Blakes Ghost

    Oh Puhlease. Have you looked at the establishment parties lately? How many Labour MP’s have been suspended or arrested in recent years. Whose Chic Lit Ex WIld Child MP threw in the towel because she couldn’t hack the lifestyle and Whose chief whip is running around cursing at people and calling them plebs? Which party was it who allowed a hanger on to attend official meetings? Which party was it who accepted “in good faith’ a £2 million pound donation from a con man and whose first days back in power after 80 years were blighted by the resignation of one of their most senior politicians over expenses and who have a former leadership candidate awaiting trial for perverting the course of justice? It seems to me this attack on UKIP is pure Westminster Freakshow prejudice….Being late in publishing their expenses is nothing compared to nonsense the Freakshow Parties have been at.

  • Barbara Stevens

    Farage gets my vote. Has for his expenses, he admitted it there and then, that’s better than most would do, honesty. I think Europe is more important than Nigel’s expenses.

  • True Bred Pomponian

    This UKIP campaigner got a very good response when leafleting for the PCC candidate at the Farmer’s Market this morning.


    First pass the rotten westminster con trick disenfranchised system of partial misrepresentation will stuff UKIP. This country needs proportional representation and westminster will lie and cheat to stop that happening. We have no hope and no future.

    • Boudicca_Icenii

      The ‘advantage’ of FPTP is that it has a tipping point where just a couple of % points will make the difference between ‘winning’ and ‘losing’.
      UKIP may not win any seats in 2015, but it is going to massively effect the tipping point in a great many Constituencies and that is what is scaring the sh!t out of LibLabCON – particularly Cameron.
      If we can effectively kill off the LibDems in 2015 and become the 3rd party in terms of votes (if not seats) then it really will be ‘game on.’
      Only when the CONs understand that they will NEVER AGAIN win a General Election with a majority and may never again even lead a coalition, will they change policy. For that reason alone we must vote UKIP at every opportunity.

  • John

    Im going to vote UKIP i dont care what othes think, my biggest concern right now is the handing over of soverign powers too the EU, why is this not taken seriously is beyond me.

    • mikewaller

      Perhaps because some of us remember that in the super-gun affair British politicians and courts were willing to see innocent men sent to jail and it was a European institution that got them out.

  • echo34

    Wow! late filing his expenses! Puts McShane into perspective doesn’t it?

    I’d really like to see some hacks with spines fall out of the Barclay Brothers arses one of these days?

  • No, No, ******* No

    To be honest, I can’t imagine the guy in government. He’s far too, clumsy, abrasive and offensive to some people to be thought of seriously. They’re not a threat. If Boris Johnson was their leader perhaps they would be, but Farage is a bit of a turn off.


      As opposed to . . . . . ? Those pejoratives could be applied to any Prime Minister of my lifetime.

  • terence patrick hewett

    Nigel has my vote for the police commissioner and european elections: for the GE the tories will have to convince me on the EU referendum and the serious intention of implementation of australian type immigration rules.

    • EJ

      Nigel has my vote for the European elections AND for the GE. I don’t care whether UKIP win any seats and I certainly don’t care whether my protest vote damages the Tories – and I speak as a life-long Conservative voter. Many of the people I speak to have transferred allegiance to UKIP because they are horrified by the lurch to the left under Cameron, the lack of conservative principle, and the total unwillingness to grasp any of the major issues like the mass immigration that is destroying the country I knew. UKIP is the only hope now.

      • ana/m

        i agree, UKIP aren’t perfect but, we simply have to get out of the EU, we have to get this enforced immigration problem back under control and we have to stop them in Brussels from succeeding in their plan for a Federal State of Europe….

  • Richard mersea island

    Having been a Tory since I began to think for myself many years ago rather than follow working class thinking/indoctrination/tradition we are inclined to do. I find myself thinking a different way yet again now.We must move on.13 years of labour rule has bought us to our knees.My party the Conservatives have and are doing some good work.But there is something holding us back.Fear? PC? Coalition?Labour?I am frustrated I know that. I have been listening to Nigel Farage.I intend supporting his party and becoming active.As long as we guard against the fools and thugs of BNP and NF we can do well.We cannot be party to that extremism and thuggery,although I do understand where they are coming from.So go for it Nigel.Make yourself more available and show us the way.I know we can do well.My only worry is that taking votes from the Torys make us vulnerable to the Labour baffoons we experienced, mostly made up of post men ships stewards Hazel Blears Jackie Smith Blunket Brown Blair bully boys like Campbell and wimin cos of their genda rather than thier talent or ability.

  • The_Missing_Think

    “…isn’t yet as disciplined as a party that aspires to be a major force in British politics…” (my emphasis).

    I’m not sure UKip or Farage are that relevant anymore, because…

    “… before Labour and the rebels joined forces to produce the first ever Commons majority in favour of slimming down the EU (John Major’s 1993 defeat was over a technicality in the Maastricht treaty, which didn’t affect funding)….”–hero–under.html#ixzz2BBGlTfaW


    “Labour’s decision to back euro–scepticism is a game changer.” Bernard Jenkin MP. 4th Nov 2012.

    UKip’s raison d’être, has gone from being laughable fringe, to being a decent percentage part, of the holy ‘center ground’.

    Game on…

    • Fergus Pickering

      But do you believe them? Of course you don’t. Labour tell lies as easy as breathing.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Unfortunately nothing Labour has or ever will pursue is honest. What you see is most definitely not what you get – ever. This is not about the declamation of policy (too easy for cynical manipulation of the dumbed down masses) but the true integrity of intent behind it. All the parties have been found wanting in promising some things whilst doing others. They are all dishonest and not to be trusted. UKIP has never been in a position to prove itself or to put trust in it to the test.

    • HooksLaw

      Labour MPs are running round all, over the place saying that the vote on the budget was meaningless and they are all good europhiles really.
      Dream on

  • alexsandr

    this is the problem with UKIP. they dont have the depth of senior members. they have farage and……?
    But if they ensnare some tories then the game will change.

    • Vulture

      @ Aleksandr: Professor Tim Congdon, one of the most respected economists around…Marta Andreisson…Paul Nuttall…ex-Tory MEP Roger Helmer…Stuart Wheeler..and there will be many more defections as their support grows.

      • IRISHBOY


        Remember how recently that even to mention immigration invited muck throwing of the most despicable kind. And now we’re allowed to talk realistically about the EU without Dave calling us all the sort of names he wouldn’t dare if we were black, asian, homosexual, transgender, catholic, muslim, left-wing, BBC employees, Liverpudlians etc. etc..

        People will soon see that openly backing UKIP will invite less opprobrium as before, and likewise, what we all know is that when the UK or Greece are the first to leave the EU, the swiftness of subsequent flourishing will open the eyes of all those across Europe who are, because of self-censoring or under implicit threats, presently silent. Trade won’t stop. The EU will do their damnedest of course, but they would suffer far more by any tit-for-tat trade war.

      • John_Page

        That would be the distinguished Paul Nuttall whose expenses reports are even further behind than NF’s? – which takes some doing.

        • Vulture

          As others have remarked, late filing of expenses hardly puts the UKIP members in the Macshame league. And re. your ridiculing of Neil Hamilton : he’s a more substantial figure ( he has at least been a MInister) than your hero Dave’s choice of politician: the idiotic Louise Mensch. The coming Tory humiliation at Corby caused by her is a completely deserved reward for yet another Cameron cock-up.

          • John_Page

            Sure, Farage breaking his promise about publishing his expenses doesn’t make him worse than McShane. So what?

            Don’t blacken me with your false allegation that Dave is my hero. He isn’t. I’m simply pointing out inconvenient facts identified by Andrew Neil in the interview which NF couldn’t rebut.

            • Boudicca_Icenii

              Nigel didn’t try to rebuff them. He agreed that he was behind time in posting his expenses and would get it done. But Neill had ‘smear tactics’ to carry out for his masters at the BBC so wouldn’t let the matter drop and move on to more important matters.
              Do you seriously think Neill would have questioned Blair so assiduously about his ‘accidentally’ shredded expense claims; or Cameron, Clegg and Brown’s failure to discipline their MPs who have blatently stolen from the taxpayer? Of course not.

          • fleche_dor

            So how is Bernard Jenkin equipped to comment on the EU and still be an MP?

            He had to repay £36,000 in MPs expenses, reduced from £63,000 in 2010.

            Denis MacShane has been accused of wrongly claiming £7,000, but has repaid it all.


            What is the difference between Jenkin’s expenses and MacShane’s? Just under £30,000.

      • fleche_dor

        Marta Andreason has left UKIP for the Tories.

    • ButcombeMan

      The game will probably change in 2014 at the Euro elections.

      Cameron’s unspoken nightmare is that the populace treat those elections as the referendum on Europe that he has denied the nation and is now ducking and weaving to deny again. He is just not believable on it, sad, but fact.

      People from all parties, with concerns about Europe should vote for UKIP at those elections, regardless of any other political view.

    • fleche_dor

      UKIP spent 2012 trying to ensnare others to their cause by the sounds of it; the French Front National, Flemish Vlaams Belaang and Austrian Freedom Party; none reputed for their political moderation.

      Politicians of the 1930’s offered simplistic social, political and economic solutions to tough economic problems in the Great Depression. Would that type of nationalism really be the way forward and the answer to current economic woes?

  • Fergus Pickering

    Can anybody tell me any other UKIP politician (other than NF) who is not absolutely barking. I have it in mind that they want to chain women to their sinks. Is that not so? NF himself is excellent value and his dictatorship would be fun, well, fun for a bit.

    • Mirtha Tidville

      I`d take Farage`s dictatorship long before I`d take Dave`s

      • HooksLaw

        A great example of why you are a nut job. All evil is wrong except my evil.

        • echo34

          Are you one of those guys who sits quietly in the pub, but gives it large behind your pc screen?

          Too much bullshit and too many insults.

          You cannot articulate so you satisfy your frustrations with “nutjobs” here, “loony tunes” there.

          By all means comment but leave your name-calling aside. It really is school playground stuff.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Which is more or less your own line here you hypocrite.

          + copious abuse for those who disagree with you. Unpleasant even if right.

        • Wilhelm

          That’s a bit rude. Did your parents not teach you any manners ?

    • Boudicca_Icenii

      It is the EUphiles of LibLabCON who are barking …. the idea that 27 disparate countries can be forced into a political union, run by France and Germany for the benefit of France and Germany, is absolute madness.
      UKIP may be amateur politicians – but their spokesmen are all experienced professionals in their previous line of work. Eg Tim Congdon, Professor of Economics who used to be the Conservative Party’s economic advisor; Marta Andreason, ex Chief Accountant for the EU – hounded out for exposing the corruption and fraud.
      It’s the professional politicians of LibLabCON who are useless – as Cameron, Osborne and Clegg are displaying only too well at the moment. And the idea that Miliband will be any better is risible.

    • David Julian Price

      Here’s a woman that UKIP hasn’t chained to the kitchen sink. I think you have a strange conceit about the party. Certainly they’re no more odd than any of the others!

  • John_Page

    And Andrew Neil exposed that his promises on tax and spend could never be afforded over the 5-year period he was suggesting. Amateur time from NF.

    • HooksLaw

      UKIP are a joke. They are not a serious political party they are just a pressure group riddled with malcontents and worse who can spout rhetoric without any need or expectation of ever having to justify it.

      • Vulture

        @Hook: Er..,. i think they are a bit more than a joke, Hookie, otherwise we wouldn’t be discussing them. The very fact that you Daveists get so aerated about UKIP is a testimony to their growing power. Unless the Tories change their ways UKIP votes will easily be enough to deny Dave his majority in 2015.

        And before you say that will let Miliband in – I know it will. If the Tories want to avoid that dire fate, they know what they have to do.

      • Boudicca_Icenii

        You need to get out a bit more …. the British people as a whole are fast becoming ‘malcontents’ thanks to the sheer incompetence of LibLabCON and their betrayal of OUR interests in favour of the EU.
        Only the FPFP voting system is saving LibLabCON up in the UK. In the EU Parliament elections, it’s a different matter entirely.

    • John_Page

      It’s no good just voting that comment down. It’s what happened.

  • Vulture

    There’s no doubt that UKIP are amateurs in politicis – but they are not rank crooks like many of the Europhiles ( Yes, D. MacShame – this means you). And let’s not forget the Eurosceptic N. KInnock who turned his coat in order to get himself and his entire family on the EU gravy train.
    Whatever his faults, Farage is the only politiucian in Britain today who truly does speak truth to power, and UKIP is growing at the expense of the Euro-lacked other three, so many of whose representatives depend on the corrupt EU for their pay, perks and pensions.
    Once UKIP get a few more professionals on board their amateurism will vanish and then we will see the Tories – but not just them, really have a brown trousers day. Four years ago Farage wouldn’t have got on Andrew Neil’s show – its a measure of Britain;s growing hostility to the EU racket that his party are now making the political weather.Go Nige!

    • John_Page

      Carswell speaks “truth to power”. And NF won’t let any high quality professional politician anywhere near UKIP or it would threaten his limelight. What sort of tawdry organisation welcomes Neil Hamilton, for goodness sake?

      • Vulture

        @John Page:

        Carswell certainly does. So does Hannan. But both are Tories and therefore members of a party whose leader is committed to Britain remaining a member of the EU – forever – whatever the public think or say.
        Until the Tories ditch Dave their so-called Euroscepticism remains hot air.

        • HooksLaw

          Farage says he wants a free trade deal with the EU (as if that could be manufactured out of thin air), but he is being totally disingenuous. A free trade deal means access to the single market and abiding by single market rules. Just like being in the EU but having no say in the rules.
          Such a negotiation might well involve the EU insisting we join Schengen (like Norway) and if a Labour govt is in power, who is to say that would not be agreed to?

          The reality is that being out of the EU would be little different from being in it. The EU is not going to go away and agonising over it to the extent it leads to the return of a Europhile labour govt is absurdly counter productive.

          Everyone who says they want out of the EU refuses to acknowledge what that would mean in reality, but Farage by at least admitting he wants a free trade deal has opened up the pandoras box to the truth. That is – we still have to conform to what the EU say.
          And of course the ECHR, which we founded, has nothing to do with the EU.

          And ‘free trade deals’ – does anybody have any idea what is involved in all that? Canada has been trying to negotiate one with the EU for years.
          Here are the ramifications of the USA-Australia one

          UKIPers are like Salmond saying Scotland can be independent but still have the Queen the pound and the Bank of England and Faslane.

          • Felix Hemsted

            If we have a free trade agreement, EU regulation would affect a 5% (and shrinking) of the economy. By being in the EU, EU regulation affects 100% of the economy.

          • David Julian Price

            Nonsense. The Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU *must* seek to negotiate a free trade deal with any country leaving the EU, and given that the EU sells twice as much to us as we do to it, it would be bizarre if that didn’t happen. The German auto industry and French, Italian, Spanish agricultural interests would be lobbying very hard for it. We can then sell to the EU abiding by single market rules, but also be free to sell to the rest of the world (which accounts for nearly 80% of total world GDP) on our own terms, which we are not currently free to do. This will be massively beneficial to British industry, especially SMEs. Schengen is an irrelevance; there’s no reason why it needs to be connected to trade. If Labour gets back into power they won’t be negotiating an exit to the EU, period.

        • John_Page

          It’s arguable (to put it no higher) that Carswell & Reckless have done more for anti-EU sentiment over the past weeks than Farage.

      • John_Page

        Voting the post down? Which facts do you disagree with?

      • John_Page

        Come on, objectors, or can’t you think of answer?

        • Boudicca_Icenii

          Farage wasn’t given a chance to expand on our economic policy for a start. Neill was desperate to get onto the subject of Farage’s expenses not being published on time so he could do his best to smear the party on behalf of the EUphiles in the BBC.

          • John_Page

            So pointing out a broken pledge (which your leader confessed to, by the way) is a smear?

            That is low grade paranoia.

            Farage admitted he was bang to rights!

      • Boudicca_Icenii

        Carswell and Hannan may speak the truth to power, but they remain within a Party that is determined to keep us in the EU at all costs. And 40+ years of so-called Tory EU scepticism has achieved what? Sweet FA – because the pro-EU cabal at the top of the party call the shots.

    • Robert Castlereagh

      What evidence do you or any of us have that Farage has not been behaving like Macshane.?

      UKIP still represents the far right vote and is not just about confusion or media manipulation such as obfuscation on the Sunday politics show

      The UKIP vote is strongly anti-asylum,
      Islamophobic and xenophobic. UKIP supports ‘five freedoms’, including ‘freedom from political correctness’ and ‘freedom from overcrowding’ – they claim ‘the UK is already full up’. Sadly, this is more likely attracting votes than UKIP’s anti-Brussels rhetoric.

      • Chris

        UKIP is a far right extremist party of the sort we consigned to the dustbin of history in 1945. No decent person supports it.

        • alexsandr

          looks like 8% of the population isn’t decent then.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Oh don’t be silly. My wife supports it and she is very decent. I would have said no decent person can support the present Labour party, though. And this means you..

        • Colonel Mustard

          I don’t support UKIP but would suggest that its characterisation as a “far right extremist party” owes more to those who oppose it than its own policies. The opposition includes the “new” right which is curiously wet and leftist.

          If it is far right it is only because the so-called centre has been shifted so far left.

          Since the political dialogue now excludes truth and honesty the “new” left combat political viewpoints that they disagree with by demonising and shaming them, hoping by intimidation that people will be too ashamed to admit their support, as has been precisely the tactics of the minority BBC elite towards the Tories. Brainwashing as much of the dumbed down majority as possible, through the media, academia and the public sector helps in this endeavour.

          There is a new insurgency seeking change – and it ain’t from the left!

        • George C.

          Your statement that UKIP is far right can in no way be supported. This just a label Europhiles use to try and disparage UKIP. Our argument are that we see no point in surrendering our hard won wealth to a dishonest and dishonourable EU. This country is currently supporting over 60,000,000 people which is far too many. The density of population is probably 3 times that of France or Germany and greater than Netherlands. Those who are here stay here but we want no more. Just run this country for the good of the population as is.

          • HooksLaw

            You say you are not extreme and immediately bang on about immigration. But you dope, even if out of the EU we would still have to abide by the single market rules and probabl;y would have to sign up to Schengen as a quid pro pro. If your brains were dynamite they would not blow your cap off.

            Why not admit the truth about where UKIPs anti immigrant tendencies lie.

            • Colonel Mustard

              Oh, for goodness sake, why is banging on about immigration “extreme”? Surely it is possible to disagree with a reckless policy of free or mass immigration, or even to express concern about it, without some chump like you describing that as “extreme”? At least it is not the cant of trying to shut down debate by calling anyone who disagrees a nutjob or “extreme”.

            • ButcombeMan

              Why is it “extreme” to be concerned about unfetterred immigration to an overcrowded island with a massive strain on public services?

              Most people are concerned, from whatever political corner they come, that is part of the broad appeal of UKIP as a party that will open up that debate.

              This parcelling up and branding of issues and those who mention them, so that they cannot even be discussed, has gone on for too long, it is a typical tactic of the mindless left, frightened to have a discussion because they will lose the argument. Many truly decent people are concerned.

              Your tactic is worn out, seen through and quite pathetic.

              • Colonel Mustard

                Fully agree your first three paragraphs. As to your fourth the tactic is tedious from an objective point of view, seen through by some (but not, apparently most of the media, deliberately or otherwise) and cynically cunning rather than pathetic. They take refuge behind this assertion as well as using it as a weapon to stifle debate. The area of most concern is that wet and leftist “de-toxified” (or perhaps “re-constructed”) conservatives are joining in, which is really skewing the pitch.

                They favour free and uncontrolled immigration – ergo they are proudly and boastfully neither xenophobe nor racist (which begets which is uncertain). They smear those who do not as both.

              • marzipanlil

                Very well said, ButcombeMan. I am concerned about unfettered imimgration too. I am voting UKIP.

                Get a globe and look at what a tiny island we are. Consider the fact that hundreds of thousands of young people are unemployed and feel they have no future. Think of them, before you start spouting your feeble bile, all of you who disparage UKIP. You have to wonder at the psychological make up of people who rush to label people as racist.They seem very feeble to me. I shall label them Reality Deniers.

                • marzipanlil

                  Could not agree more marzipanlil & ButcombeMan. In the simplest terms you can not get a pint into a half pint pot, and if you take the concerns of the people that matter who are charged with running our vital services water, sewerage, housing, NHS, to name but a few. For many years they have been warning that there are limits to the number of households that can be properly sustained in the UK. Anyone who ignores these warnings is either, a fool or so far removed or insulated from reality and does not see or want to see (in the case of Labour Politicians) the potential disaster that lays ahead.


            • Boudicca_Icenii

              Patrick o’Flynn from the Daily Express reported back from his trip to Corby last night … saying that the locals were ‘livid’ about immigration and if Labour didn’t espouse severely restricted immigration they were courting danger.
              Traditionally, Labour voters are far less keen on immigration than the ‘right’ mainly because they are the ones who suffer the most from excessive immigration..

          • Chris

            So you follow the laughable statement that UKIP is not far right with a racist rant on how there are too many people here. UKIP are nazis and no-one with a shred of understand of Britain and what we, the British, are proud of about it would ever dream of supporting them. Keep your nasty foreign creed to yourself.

        • Boudicca_Icenii

          So it’s right wing and extremist to want your country to be self-governing. In that case, the 50+% of the population which wants out of the EU must all be ‘extremists.’

        • Barbara

          bWell I’m decent and I support them, I’ve broke no laws, done nothing wrong, and paid my taxes until I retired. Don’t assume UKIP supporters are far right wing, get your facts right before you put many people in one pocket. Have a nice day.

        • slickmick

          Then why does it say on the UKIP application form that the person joining UKIP confirms that he/she has NEVER been a member of the NF, BNP, EDL and a whole string of others? Look at the ex-Communists who joined the pro-establishment Labour Party.

      • Mirtha Tidville

        And that my friend is exactly how `the man in the street` is thinking these days. Thank God Farage is prepared to articulate on their behalf…

      • Colonel Mustard

        So, (to phrase this in the manner of a smug leftist), you support political correctness? Why? The very term undermines any democracy of diversity whilst imposing, arrogantly, the notion of “right” and “wrong” ways of thinking. Coincidence that these reflect the dogma of the left? I think not.

        Freedom from it? Yes please.

    • dalai guevara

      Apparatchik politians vs. corporate rule: this is the true battle ground of our times. Making a case against 1 without making a case against 2 exposes the incomplete analysis our political class indulges in today.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Corporate tyranny might be a better term than corporate rule, simply because corporate power is seized by collective collusion not to rule per se but to aggrandise. Politicians conspire in this because they think, naively, that it represents the free market, but also because they can exploit its fiscal oppression of the captive consumer base by inventive and exorbitant tax regimes. The poor old public suffer the privations of both from the lack of true competition, the profiteering and tax milking, even when it is dressed up in the moral blackmail of green endeavour.

        • dalai guevara

          Hahaha, love your stance – I refrain from using the t-word as it has been highjacked by the anti Brussels crowd. The ‘moral blackmail of green endeavour’ is particularly amusing, as the alternative of fossil fuel wars and kids in local coal mines will come to haunt our conscience once we realise that energy independence comes at a price.

          • Colonel Mustard

            And there was me thinking I was more or less agreeing with you. I should have remembered the rules of the game.

            • dalai guevara

              yes, the free market is just playing out in NY: have you seen the petrol prices there? That’s what happens when private profiteering takes over…what shall we call it? Legal looting?

  • foxoles

    So Balls and Cooper can claim £300,000, Blair can send us into an illegal war which kills hundreds of thousands, MacShame/Matyjaszek can forge signatures to pay himself cheques and buy 26 extra computers on the taxpayer’s back, Brown can destroy the economy, but Farage *must not* file late paperwork.

    That the best you got?

    • John_Page

      No. NF breaks his promises and his tax/spend proposals are pie in the sky. And that’s just the ground they covered in the interview.

      • Richard Mersea Island

        Nigel has only just come onto the scene. Bit early to be throwing around accusations?Explain please.

        • John_Page

          Eh? He’s been around the top of UKIP for ages! As to “explain”, did you watch the interview?

      • John_Page

        It’s no good you voting it down. It was in the Sunday politics interview.

      • John_Page

        They don’t like it up them, Mr Mainwaring. But they have no answer.

    • HooksLaw

      it was not an illegal war and it did not kill hundreds of thousands. McShane has resigned. Brown lost the election.

      It’s illustrative how you refuse to accept the failures of your hero in the mids of all your other misrepresentation..t

  • alexsandr

    james said ‘Even if Farage is right on the numbers, there’s a major doubt if the
    rest of Europe would be inclined to cut a deal in the wake of a British
    exit: a country leaving and then prospering outside would be very
    damaging to the European project.’
    This is the bollocks the europhiles keep spouting. They need us more then us them. And are the Germans seriously going to stop selling us their BMW’s, Bosch boilers and siemens trains?

    • HooksLaw

      You think these issues would revolve around the sale of 100,000 BMWs?

      Take a look at the production capacity of Nissan, Toyota, Honda and Mini Jaguar Land Rover and think how the entire capacity compares. Not to mention the engine and gearbox plants in the UK.
      Some people are not ‘philes of any colour – they are realists as opposed to fantasists.

      • echo34

        So they’re all being exported for use in the EU are they? or perhaps trans-shipped over to Rotterdam where they’re classed as EU Exports.

      • Boudicca_Icenii

        Perhaps you should take a look at this. Osborne was party to the EU’s decision to loan UK taxpayers’ money to Turkey for a factory that makes Ford Transit Vans. It directly led to the loss of 1000+ jobs in Ford’s Southampton. factor.
        And just in case you are going to argue that only the CONs would do this – under the last Labour Govt, a tender process was let to provide rolling stock which failed to protect jobs in Bombardier’s the UK factory and effectively ‘gifted’ the contract to Siemens because Labour failed to include a clause relating to adverse impact on the local economy.
        None of LibLabCON stand up for British interests. Only UKIP will.

      • David Julian Price

        Don’t forget the hundreds of thousands of VWs, Audis, Mercedes Benz, etc., plus the huge network of German auto parts suppliers, too. If a newly independent UK slapped retaliatory tariffs on imported cars, the German auto industry would face very heavy job losses. And it can’t just redirect production to China or the US because these companies already have manufacturing plants in those markets. Germany specifically would be hit hard. As such, it would be politically very damaging for Merkel (or who ever is in power at the time), to embark on a trade war with a free UK. Ditto France, with their massively subsidised agriculture industry (cheese, wine, meat, etc.), and so it goes on. The EU would be mad to start slapping tarifs on us, precisely for this reason. Given that we import twice as much as what we sell to the EU, we have by far the stronger hand. I suggest you recalibrate your ‘realism’ to the modern world, it’s not 1975 any more.

        • mikewaller

          The point being made is just Spain’s attitude to the possibility to an independent Scotland, writ large. Regardless of the implication for trade between the two countries, Spain is so afraid of the effects on its own fragile unity, it will do anything it can to stiff the Scottish project.

          There is, however, a much broader issue. It is usually the case that when things become ubiquitous, they fall apart. So it will be with free trade. There is going to come a point when Western electorates finally realise that as we lose our technological edge, our exceptional standard of living will become unsustainable. The choice then will be between accepting a massive drop in standards or the re-emergence of protectionism. My money is on the latter, and that would mean discrete trading blocks. If by then Europhobes had managed to maneuver dear old Blighty into going it alone outside everything, they would not be the most popular bunnies on the block.

    • itdoesntaddup

      Damaging the the EU project perhaps: but would EU voters not start to draw the appropriate conclusion that they too would be BOO?

  • jordan ash

    Because no other party’s MPs would make such basic unforced errors.

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