Coffee House

More left the UK for work in the last year than came here for it

29 November 2012

5:52 PM

29 November 2012

5:52 PM

Net migration to the UK from April 2011 to March 2012 was 183,000, down by a quarter on 242,000 the year before. That’s the headline figure from today’s Office for National Statistics release, and the government is using it to claim success. Immigration minister Mark Harper said:

‘This shows we are bringing immigration back under control. Our tough policies are taking effect and this marks a significant step towards bringing net migration down from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands by the end of this Parliament.’

But it’s worth looking a bit deeper into the figures. Overall, immigration was at its lowest level since 2004 — when the EU was enlarged to include eight eastern European countries, which are now the source of 13 per cent of immigration to the UK. The number of people coming to the UK fell by 42,000: 17,000 fewer came to work, 19,000 fewer to study. The number leaving the UK rose by 17,000.

About half of the drop in net migration is actually, as Matt Cavanagh noted in August, ‘due to the comings and goings of British citizens’. 19,000 fewer Brits came to Britain, while 10,000 more went abroad.

[Alt-Text]


Meanwhile, new Home Office stats show that 508,488 visas were issued between October 2011 and September 2012 (excluding visitor and transit visas) — 85,490 fewer than the year before. But 86 per cent of that drop is due to the cut in study visas issued: 73,728 fewer were issued this year than last, whereas the number of work visas fell by just 6,437.

Some of the reduction in student visas will be thanks to the government’s crackdown on ‘bogus students’ — but it’s also likely that the new restrictions on students staying on to work after finishing their degree is deterring genuine ones. The Home Affairs Select Committee last year cautioned against this, emphasising that ‘The export of education is not only economically beneficial to this country but also vital to the UK’s international relations.’ And the IPPR points out that:

‘The irony is that the impacts on net migration will only be short-lived because most students stay only for a short time. Reduced immigration today means reduced emigration in a year or two’s time, which could see net migration rise again.’

The IPPR, the Home Affairs committee and the Business, Innovation and Skills committee, have all called on the government to exclude students from the net migration figures — and its immigration target. Though the government hasn’t done this, David Willetts said he wants to ‘publicise disaggregated figures so that the debate can be better informed.’

Well, if you exclude students from today’s figures, net migration is actually negative. That is, excluding students, 11,000 more people left the UK than entered it between April 2011 and March 2012. 29,000 more went abroad for work than come here to work.

Of course, a proper figure would add back in those students who stay on once their course has finished, something we can’t do with the current figures. But it is clear how much of an effect students have on the immigration headlines.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.


Show comments
  • Daniel Maris

    Well it seems Spectator journalists unlike Guardian ones all go to bed early. Thanks to the Guardian it seems that there has been something like a political earthquake:

    Here’s the Rotheram runners up (Labour won – in line with my prediction that the lower middle classes are now flocking to Labour thanks to the pauperisation they are undergoing under the coalition) –

    “Ukip came second in the
    town with 4,648 votes, and the BNP was third with 1,804.
    Respect took 1,778, and were followed by the Conservative party with 1,157. It
    was a particularly dismal night for the Liberal
    Democrats, who came eighth – behind the English Democrats – and lost their
    deposit. The turnout was 21,330 (33.63%), down by a quarter on 2010 levels.”

    This is a HIGHLY significant result in terms of Tory policy. The grand strategist Osborne has really come good hasn’t he? Eighth!!!

    UKIP could clearly destroy the Tories at the next election.

    • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

      My rather sourer obs is you don’t need a lot of votes to become an MP do you?

  • Colonel Mustard

    How can any responsible and self-respecting state allow a foreigner entry without having to give any reason? And of the study statistics how many relate to the genuine study of academic subjects and how many to the study of ideology, subversion and/or terrorism?

  • TomTom

    How do you know how many EU nationals come to the UK ? Do you ave some way of identifying them ?

  • Daniel Maris

    Migration Watch have welcomed the cut as a step in the right direction so I guess we have to take that seriously.

    However I was reading that over 600,000 new NI nos were issued to non UK nationals in the year up to March 2012. Given that there must be additional numbers on top of that (e.g. the students presumably don’t get NI Nos.), that gives a truer indication really of what’s going on.

    • 2trueblue

      Yep, and we are meant to put up with the quality of services getting worse as the population grows. This was never meant to happen, we do not have the infrastructure to cater for the massive growth in our population. It is as simple as that. What is so difficult about accepting that fact? We live in a small island and there is just so much capacity and we have over reached it. Blair brought us this problem and introduced this multiculturalism. The population should have a choice. They were never asked, and have been misled totally. Liebore had an agenda.

  • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

    Hmm – more workers leave the country for jobs overseas than enter for jobs here. The phrase “Britain’s not working” comes to mind.

    • Daniel Maris

      The phrase “Marrying your cousin from the old country” comes to mind as an alternative explanation. Or are you saying I am wrong in thinking cousin marriage on the sub-continent is quite common within certain communities?

      • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

        What has family migration got to do with worker migration?

        • Noa

          You can tell the difference?

  • Anthony Makara

    Repatriation is the word the political elite would never dare to mention. Yet it is the logical solution to the ever growing number of immigrants in our country that are not in a position to support themselves or their families. Those immigrants who are not in any type of full-time legit work should be expected to leave our country after a short period of time. Any immigrant convicted of a criminal act should be repatriated, immediately. This is the politics of logic and common sense. Something we won’t find in Westminster. Repatriation, the dreaded R-word. We need to hear more of it.

    • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

      The problem old boy is that under your own definitions very few would have to be repatriated. The employment rate for migrants is higher than for the indigenous and the welfare claimant rate is lower. As well, the criminality rate is equal or less than the indigenous population. You are focused on a problem that doesn’t exist.

      • sponner

        compared with the UK average of 22% of the working age population being
        economically inactive, Somali, Bangladeshi, Pakistani and Iranian
        immigrants are likely to be 81%, 56%, 55% and 48% economically inactive
        respectively (migrationwatch, 2010).
        In the UK only 47% of Muslim men and 24% of Muslim women are employed(equalities commission 2011).
        Muslims were also found to have the highest disability rates – with 24
        per cent of men and 21 per cent of women claiming a disability (wikileaks)
        Assuming Prison statistics are anything to go by – in June 2006 foreign prisoners accounted for 14% of the total prison population.
        The problem exists.

        • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

          First, if you get your stats from MigrationWatch, not exactly a dis-interested observer, you lack any skepticism or believability. Even if the stats are true, these are religious groups, not British nationals vs immigrants. I’d also add that you need to remove refugees from these numbers, unless you want the UK to withdraw from international refugee conventions. The Somalis are likely to be almost wholly refugees.

          • Daniel Maris

            You obviously haven’t heard that quote where the Home Office official said something to the effect “We must stop trashing Migration Watch statistics because we all know that more often than not they are accurate.”

            Which figure are you disputing?

            • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

              No I haven’t (I trust you jest) and read my comment again.

            • Hexhamgeezer

              One HO quote is;

              “I have made this point many times before but can we please stop saying that Migrationwatch migration forecasts are wrong. I have pointed out before that Migrationwatch assumptions are often below the Government Actuary’s Department’s high migration scenario”

          • sponner

            So, give me a credited reference that disputes my figures?
            Where I quote religious groups, they are overwhelmingly immigrant groups.
            The Somalis are almost wholly economic migrants who have traversed any number of countries that are also signatories of the IRC to specifically get to this country.

            Two of the three ‘credible sources’ you quote are left leaning ‘think tanks’ with a pro immigration agenda – hardly dis-interested.The other one is a government body – make of that what you will.

          • TomTom

            Crap. Blunkett gave Asylum Seekers Work Visas to empty Sangatte

          • TomTom

            Somalis came from The Netherlands after the Dutch cracked down on social security fraud – they came to dimwit England where they can get away with it as they coordinate piracy in the Horn of Africa

          • Daveyyy12

            unless you want the UK to withdraw from international refugee conventions. The Somalis are likely to be almost wholly refugees.

            Trust Migration watch:

            From the Oxford Migration Observatory comes the blindingly obvious, the more diverse we come the less trusting we become; social cohesion is damaged.

            Frequently, the focus in social cohesion studies is on trust – generalised (whether most people can be trusted) or neighbourhood trust (most of the neighbours in this community can be trusted). Most of the empirical literature on this subject finds that the relationship between diversity and trust is negative – the more diverse a community is, the less likely individuals in it are to be trusting. The trend seems to hold especially strong for the US. Costa and Khan (2003) established with the General Social Survey that people in more diverse neighbourhoods trust their neighbours less and are less likely to be politically or communally involved. Alesina and La Ferrara (2000, 2005) found that trust in general and more specifically interpersonal trust is lower in more racially heterogeneous communities in the US. Stolle et al. (2008) comparing US and Canada observed a strong negative effect of diversity on trust; however, they also found that contact may neutralize but not make this relationship positive. Most notably, Putnam (2007) argues that diversity seems to alienate people in general and in his words pushes them towards ‘hunkering down’ i.e. towards segregation and isolation.

            • DAveyyy12

              Oops, did not give my answer.

              unless you want the UK to withdraw from international refugee conventions.

              Yes..

      • Colonel Mustard

        And you are just as focussed on identity group politics – which is sad. It is going to tear this country apart.

        • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

          I am no such thing. I am simply adding facts to a factless proposition.

          • Daniel Maris

            Only an idiot would claim that migrants didn’t have a higher employment rate than the average in the UK. They will mostly be in the 20-40 age group – the healthiest age group for one thing. A large proportion we know are positively invited to come into the country and take up jobs. And first generation migrants are well motivated to work to get themselves established.

            But we are looking at the overall effect of migration – and that is measured over decades (e.g. through the rise in birth rate,the effects of which we are now seeing in this country through the housing shortage and so on).

            Where you have communities that maintain non-English home languages and backward value systems, the effects are not good.

            • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

              Let us note that the idiots in question here are Sponner and Anthony who have implied as much.

              I don’t share your confidence in predicting the future / decades long trends for today’s migrants. That said, we definitely need to build more houses. And migrants need to integrate, starting with speaking English and checking prejudices about women’s rights, gays etc at the door.

              It’s worth noting at PMQs that the PM noted one of the Tory MPs was the son of a Ugandan Asian refugee. Basically there are many possible outcomes and we need to swallow a mix of them.

              • br14

                The ethnic and cultural background of immigrants is irrelevant.

                The fact is net inward migration to the UK has been far too high for far too long. Increasing from 40-50,000 a year prior to 1997, to over 250,000 once New Labour came to power (and barely reduced since – even with the latest statistics).

                This policy was completely irresponsible and driven by some pretty suspect motivations.

                • http://twitter.com/rlpkamath Rahul Kamath

                  Why so u think 250000 is too high? What’s bad about that number? And what would you think the right number is and why?

                • TomTom

                  There is no limit provided we take more land. We used to have large sections of France, India, Sri Lanka, Africa, Asia…..it is important that Britain consider high-density housing silos for immigrants with perhaps limited energy consumption and restricted carbon footprint. Say a ban on car ownership, residence permits restricting them to housing blocks, and a special tax code with say Jizya. Population density requires special measures

              • TomTom

                What we need is Lebensraum. Should never have given India independence Rahul. India would have been an ideal adjunct to British ideals and had we broken the Caste System India could be a true multicultural society like Britain. In fact it might encourage you to move there from New York rather than move to Britain…….so where do you propose to build more houses ? Long Island Sound or Goa ?

          • Hexhamgeezer

            …… and in the process displaying your own prejudices by dismissing Migrationwatch.

            Again, the HO quote..

            “I have made this point many times before but can we please stop saying that Migrationwatch migration forecasts are wrong. I have pointed out before that Migrationwatch assumptions are often below the Government Actuary’s Department’s high migration scenario”

          • Noa

            Who are you to determine ‘prejudice’ ?

            And your sources are as biased as your mindset.

      • TomTom

        Somalis prove you wrong. Bangladeshis prove you wrong.

  • In2minds

    No not Leveson but not the Energy Bill either.

  • MirthaTidville

    Ah yes,lies,damned lies and statistics…..

  • Madame Merle

    “More left the UK last year for work than came here for it”

    Yeah, they came here for dole which is more generous than a working wage in their own country.
    Wait until the Romania/Bulgaria tsunami hits, that’s going to mess with your statistics.

    Population exchange isn’t the answer. Immigrants supposedly come here for a better life but the UK is rapidly coming to resemble the same s**tholes that they are trying to escape.

    • telemachus

      Are you in UKIP?
      If so you may feel smug that this news was delayed until the byelection polls were almost done and dusted
      I would be very concerned about the motives that led to ONS releasing these figures that puncture the UKIP bubble when they did

      • Noa

        These White washed statistical ‘methodologies’ were cooked up by Labour to ensure that we are not informed about the origins, education, status or religion of those who flee or leave the UK and those who arrive to join the non contributers already here.

        As such they re-force and embed the Neathergate Doctrine and Madame Merles is of course absolutely correct.

        It is mis-information at its most iniquitous, which is perpetuated by a government afraid of what the consequences of the real truth would be for stable government and frightened of the massive civil disorder which would inevitably follow full and honest disclosure.

        • telemachus

          Go down to London and see the vibrant multicultural life
          We have moved on from Powell
          Which is why notwithstanding Thacker you will come a distant third tonight in Rotherham

          • Noa

            Enjoy it whilst the Vibrants let you Comrade!

            Do you think you’re safe ‘cos you is…Dyslexic?

            • telemachus

              Yes even the patois is shared-innit

              • Noa

                No. It’s a lower, derived and debased form of English.

          • EJ

            Don’t know which London you live in. Tower Hamlets is an Islamic no go area where gays are attacked and the inidigenous white working class have all been ousted or fled. There are swathes of South London where black gangs control the streets, knife and gun crime is out of control, you hardly see a white face and the threat of violence bubbles under the surface everywhere. There are areas of North London where traffic is forced to a stand still as mosques pour out their legions glaring their aggressive challenge at the intimidated motorists.

            • telemachus

              Sorry son that is not the reality
              You have been studying too much Tommy Robinson
              PS have you paid off your mortgage

              • Danbury

                I know the areas of London to which telemachus refers… I live in one of them… he is totally correct ! Some people need to get out more…

                • Colonel Mustard

                  telemachus referred only to London without identifying which areas. So either you misread the posts or your comment is bogus. Or you are another of his many pseudonyms (he likes to have conversations with himself to pretend he has allies here and is not the only good little communist marching in step).

                • Matthew Whitehouse

                  They are both Labour Trolls on a mainly tory website

              • Matthew Whitehouse

                Telemachus is a Labour Troll guys – That’s why he sounds a right prick!

          • Daveyyy12

            Who cares what happens in Rotherham.

            London is changing very fast; this country is changing very fast. A good riot will set the exodus off then you will see that your multicultural wet-dream was nothing but a figment of your imagination. I am sure most Labour Luvvies will have second homes were all us bigots live.

            Strange that, even ethnics what to live with us bigots.

          • TomTom

            What was the value of your forecast Tel-Boy ?

          • Matthew Whitehouse

            No-one in these comments erks from the Powell era. Immigration is good, most people agree. But what about the fact that there has been 200,000+ every year since 1997. The size of 2 Birminghams, but without the extra resources being provided.

            • Noa

              “Immigration is good, most people agree.”
              No. they don’t.

    • EJ

      I wonder what we’d find out if we analysed WHO left and WHO arrived?

      The reality is that the indigenous population with enough money to do so are fleeing the urban cess-pits where they are becoming an increasingly out-numbered and threatened minority. The people who should be building a good life here for themselves and their children are being forced out. Look at what has happened to the East End of London. That this has been allowed to happen is an absolute disgrace, but of course, no one’s allowed to talk about it, let alone confront the traitors who encouraged it.

      Up until now, those at the top of society have been protected from the worst of this by money. But as we become a minority in our own land, even the rich will start to be hit by the negative effects of years of open borders and the muddle-headed, self-hating, left-wing dogma of those who are hell-bent on turning us into an over-crowded, violent, third world hell-hole.

      • 2trueblue

        Your first point is the key. We have no idea what is happening, who is coming and going.

      • Madame Merle

        The East End of London or the Islamic republic of Tower Hamlets has happened with no objection or opposition whatsoever.

        To think that the Jews, who always kept a low profile and minded their own business, were once persecuted when this lot ARE taking over and making their own laws is utterly unjust.

    • GaryEssex

      I think the Romanians are already here in numbers – even with “restrictions”. I passed two cars yesterday with
      “RO” plates on a short 10km countryside drive yesterday.

      • GaryEssex

        Sorry, two yesterdays! Whoops

    • TomTom

      It is called International White Flight or Anywhere Outside Britain White Middle Class Educated Professionals Are Better Treated And Better Paid

  • AnotherDaveB

    Student visas are mostly a lie.

    “Look at the figures: the number of students arriving in Britain increased sharply during the Labour years, with the International Passenger Survey, which records the main reason for migration, showing that the number arriving for study increased from 87,000 in 2001 to 175,000 in 2006-2007 and up to 209,000 the following year. This leapt to 273,000 in 2008-9 and, once one includes students student visitors and dependants, the figure for 2009 is 489,000, up 100,000 on the previous year.

    Why the leap? Because the Government that year introduced PBS Tier 4, which was either designed with total incompetence or was yet another one of New Labour’s bright ideas for shifting immigration away from areas where it would be unpopular and scrutinised, to areas where it was still imagined to be beneficial.”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100148085/studying-in-britain-one-big-immigration-scam/

    • HooksLaw

      Which is why the govt is acting on student numbers. It seems there is ‘increase in the number of sponsored student visa applications for the university sector’ which suggest to me these are serious as opposed to bogus students.

      • Daveyyy12

        Hook, the numbers are mind boggling No going back the entire make-up of this country has changed. Now we have sectarian Respect, the Libdems and Labour all fighting for the increasing ethnic vote while paying lip service to the declining white vote. The BBC to tell us it is all ok.

        We may be lucky and find out if diversity makes us stronger..

  • Daveyyy12

    Who cares.. The damage is done so I will not be voting. I want to live long enough to say I told you so.

    Never voting Tory, Labour or LibDems..

    • telemachus

      OK now we are all bored to death by Leveson and immigrationoday the real news is:-

      The UN General Assembly vote on the status of the Palestinians is the
      “last chance to save the two-state solution” with Israel, President
      Mahmoud Abbas has said.

      The assembly is to vote on upgrading the Palestinian status from
      observer entity to non-member observer state.

      The bid has strong European and Arab support but is opposed by Israel
      and the US. The UK may abstain.

      Mr Abbas called on the UN to issue a “birth certificate of
      Palestine”.

      The Palestinians are seeking UN recognition of a Palestinian state in
      the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the lands Israel captured in 1967.

      France, Spain and Norway are among those urging the General Assembly to
      raise the Palestinians’ UN status. Germany is set to abstain.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Why do you keep saying “we”. Get this and get it good you red horror story. YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!!

        • Daniel Maris

          Telemachus is including his imaginary friend, hence the “we”.

        • Noa

          Its those voices, they keep telling him …well, stuff.

      • TheOtherTurnipTaliban

        Why do you even bother writing this rubbish? It’s not interesting and not even relevant most of the time, and clearly few bother reading it either given the low numbers of either likes or dislikes on your comments.

  • Rhoda Klapp

    Not Leveson. Hooray.

    • telemachus

      You clearly missed the Independent

      “Our media demonises immigrants, refugees and Muslims. What will Lord
      Leveson say about that?”
      And on

      “Hatred and fear of minorities is created by inventing or exaggerating stories

      Black and Asian Britons and other migrants, victimised so long by the press, are unimpressed by its special pleading and moral claims and have no faith in Leveson either. They will continue to be grossly misrepresented by our glorious press, and will have to put up and shut up.”

      • Daveyyy12

        Do not worry, Black Asians and Muslims have Respect to represent them. In Rotherham they had a nice local boy but the party decided it wanted a white girl. That does look very racist to me and to the Asians, Muslims and other minorities. They are now realising all Labour want is your vote. Looks like Labour will be tarnished with the same lacquer the Tories have been.

        Heard Labour Councils are opening etiquette schools for young white girls, they think the need grooming.

      • Colonel Mustard

        It demonises UKIP, the “far right” and old boys propping up golf club bars in regimental blazers (when not in the snug with their labradors) so it probably pretty much balances out, what, what? There, a balance. Something which you, who are serially unbalanced, appreciates little and knows less.

  • David Lindsay

    Who’d move here under this lot? Who wouldn’t leave if they could? Work? What work?

    • anyfool

      Hopefully better quality people than those that were imported by your lot, that we have any at all given the amount of idlers here who have been unemployed for years is a disgrace.
      The big problem we have is the standard coming in are not up to the standard of those leaving.

      • David Lindsay

        And yet the latter cannot bear to live here under this lot. Well, of course they can’t. A higher standard, indeed.

        • anyfool

          It has very little to do with this lot and all to do with the large influx of crooks from the world over encouraged by the the last trashy government who basically flooded the country with potential voters no matter how disgusting they were.

          • David Lindsay

            They weren’t leaving under the last government, when they had long enough to do it. But they are under this one.

        • HooksLaw

          You are a joke.

    • AnotherDaveB

      “More people are working in Britain than at any time since records began.

      The number of private sector workers has jumped by more than a million since the Coalition came to power, while the number of state workers has dropped by 630,000 to 5.66million.”

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218928/Jobs-surge-puts-record-number-Britons-work-Private-sector-credited-half-million-boost.html

    • Noa

      David. What’s the difference between this lot and the previous lot?

      I honestly fail to see any difference.

      BTW a 5 point 5 words per point really will suffice if you consider the question to be worthy of answer.

Close