Coffee House

Can the Wizard of Oz solve the Tories’ 2015 problem?

17 November 2012

12:49 PM

17 November 2012

12:49 PM

How is David Cameron planning to get re-elected? If he couldn’t win a majority against Gordon Brown in 2010 then why should he do so much better after five years of flat growth and shrinking living standards? The Police Commissioner elections have been another reminder that, for all their other merits, the Cameroons are not very good at fighting elections. So what to do? James Forsyth reveals their strategy in his political column this week: the  40+40 strategy. It involves love-bombing 20 LibDems out of their seats. But how to make this strategy work?

At present, Lynton Crosby is the obvious solution to avoid history repeating itself. He’s the Australian mastermind behind Boris Johnson’s two victories in London. Janan Ganesh’s new biography of George Osborne offers a good précis of Crosby’s contribution to Michael Howard’s doomed 2005 campaign:

‘Crosby’s performance in the second of these missions still evokes unprompted praise from veterans of the 2005 campaign. He established a clear chain of command at CCO, which he renamed Conservative Campaign HQ, with himself at the summit. He clearly delineated roles for the rest of the staff, deftly managed myriad personalities and took decisions quickly, firmly and under intense pressure.

‘He was, in short, exactly what the Conservatives would lack in their next general election campaign five years later.’


But the Tories have yet to sign him. James revealed recently that the stumbling block is control, not cost. However, as he explained in this week’s podcast, negotiations are still ongoing:

‘I understand there will be a meeting later this month in which George Osborne, Steven Gilbert and Andrew Cooper to sit down with Lynton to see if some kind of command structure for the campaign could be worked out that would be mutually agreeable to everyone.’

‘Lynton’s style of politics is very very different to David Cameron’s. I can see the theory of getting him involved, he’s the closest this country has got to a professional campaigner…but his is a very simple, very focused and in some ways brutal campaign-style, which is utterly at odds with the more touchy-feely emotive brand of David Cameron’s. I can’t quite see how Lynton Crosby sells David Cameron’

But of not the Wizard of Oz then: who? The results in yesterday’s elections demonstrate the Tories still have a public perception problem, which is particularly concerning as law and order should have been their stronger suit. for them. Bringing in Crosby would at least provide structure and substance to the Tories’ 2015 plans. Boris Johnson recently urged the 1922 committee of backbenchers to ‘break the piggy bank…they should kill the fatted cow, calf, I mean’ in order to bring in Lynton.’ At this stage, Cameron & Co appear to have little other choice if they want to stand a chance in 2015.

Subscribe to The Spectator today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Get more Spectator for less – just £12 for 12 issues.

Show comments
  • Enoch

    What is “flat growth”?

  • HellforLeather

    “How is David Cameron planning to get re-elected?” — the author writes.
    He wasn’t elected in the first place. He did a sordid deal to get where he is now.

  • MajorFrustration

    Perhaps rather than sitting down and sorting out a command structure – god help us- they might be better employed by (a) listening to the public (b)doing what they have promised and (c)stop playing politics. Simple really – unless of course they do actually want to let UKIP in. O the shame the shame

  • Thomas Paine

    Sadly an incomplete photomontage. Cameron as a courage-free zone, and Osborne as the heartless tin man, we completely ‘get’. But who, pray, is Dorothy, and who on earth is the brainless scarecrow? Quite a few candidates for both I suspect …

  • William Blakes Ghost

    The problem for the Tories is this. Their core vote is Middle England but their leadership is urban liberal and elitist. The outlook of these two groups is totally opposite.

    Since Cameron took over the leadership they have to deserted the right of centre to scrap with Libdems and Labour over a tiny concreted over patch of social democratic ground (located somewhere in London NW8). Cameron, Osbourne and the rest of his elite clique cannot communicate with Middle England. They left Middle England behind. Worse still Labour have truly stitched them up with the class bigortry rhetoric so they will never reach the working classes either.

    Beyond that they are so obssessed with this mythical being called “public opinion” (the progeny of Worcester woman and White Van Man perhaps?) and so wrapped up in the paraphenalia of the Westminster Freakshow with its Crappiness Indexes, Wealth bigotry, Green Deals, Carbon Targets, Gay Marriage, Aid commitments, Public Elf Campaigns, Discriminating for the sake of ‘equality’, Internet Gateways, Westminster Bubble Scandals, unwanted failed constitutional ‘fixes’ and hiding behind an increasing multitude ‘Independent’ bodies (i.e. abdicating their responsibility) there isn’t any time being devoted to real policies that will make a difference to the electorate (cutting taxation and government waste, stopping the onslaught of Brussels, controlling immigration, improving actual medical facilities and personnel). It comes across as (and this applies to the whole Westminster Freakshow) that its far easier for Politicians to play these facile shallow political games than actually do a job thats worthwhile

    So unless Crosby is going to recommend to the Tories to kill (poltically speaking) Dave and his clique, scrap their current disastrous agenda and have a complete make over then all I can say is don’t bother wasting the money on him because not even Crosby can put this humpty dumpty back together again. Cameron has not only sustained the Tories toxic reputation with the left but quite astonishingly also he’s making to Tories toxic to the right of centre as well!

    The Tories are going down (and this time right of centre voters do have somewhere to go)! Then we will have to suffer the identical ‘freakishness’ of the Pied Piper of Primrose Hill until we kick him out too. Sadly it seems it’s now war of attrition with the political get them to do what is in the best interests of the country!

    • Stewart

      You hit the nail on the head there by pointing out the disconnect between the liberal, elite leadership and the core vote. Cameron is chasing Guardian readers that will never vote Conservative and young adults who rarely vote. Meanwhile he is leaking core voters who may not vote Labour but will likely not vote at all.

      • ButcombeMan

        He is leaking his core voters who will never vote Labour but WILL vote UKIP and above all, who will probably vote. We are witnessing political suicide.

    • HooksLaw

      Cutting thousands of public sector jobs? Health reform. Education reform? Getting a grip on defence spending? Pensions reform? Welfare reform? Massive increase in Tax allowances? You parrot endlessly and ignore what’s actually happening

  • Stewart

    The Conservatives must do at least two things before the next election to have a chance of winning. Firstly, find some way to get the boundary review findings implemented in order to reduce Labour’s massive electoral advantage. Secondly they need to have some key note policies that will distinguish them from Labour and Lib Dem. They should make it known soon that the Conservative 2015 manifesto will include a pledge to hold an in/out EU referendum by a set date in the next parliament. Next they should acknowledge that spending and borrowing has not gone down and make the case that the only way tax cuts can be given to the middle classes is through significant reductions in the commitments of the state. My suggestions for implementing this include privatisation of some universities, all dentistry, the Royal Mail, abolish police community support officers, abolish child tax credits for all but the unemployed, cuts to the aid budget, abolish ODPM, roll DfID into the FCO, eliminate subsidies for wind farms and solar panels on houses, increase fines for crimes involving theft, robbery and drugs, raise the bus pass age to 72, have another hack at the list of state sponsored quangoes and abolish state funding of political parties, unions, and political action groups posing as charities. There’s plenty to cut but we need someone with the testicular fortitude to do it.

    • William Blakes Ghost

      Firstly, find some way to get the boundary review findings implemented in order to reduce Labour’s massive electoral advantage.

      That bird has flown and a pretty insignificant bird it was too. At best it only addressed something like a third of Labour’s advantage. So even with that unless the Tories can somehow manufacture a 7 point lead in the next two and a half years it would have never worked anyway.

      Next they should acknowledge that spending and borrowing has not gone
      down and make the case that the only way tax cuts can be given to the
      middle classes is through significant reductions in the commitments of
      the state

      . As for the cuts you suggest whilst admirable in itent if not necessarily in content, You don’t win two elections in a row promising severe public sector cuts whether necessary or not and survive. The obvious question is why they haven’t done them already.Labour will lie and promise all sorts of public sector sweetmeats whilst trashing the ‘nasty tories’. Cameron had his chance and a mandate to cut but chose to play footsie with Nick Clegg instead. Cameron had the opportunity to make a difference and he has blown it. There won’t be a second chance

      Perhaps the best thing for all and sundry will be to wait until he comes back from Brussels with his tail between his legs after submitting to some compromise which allows Brussels to steal more of our money (as undoubtedly will happen in the next few months) and axe him for it!

      A ‘Liberal’ Tory leader done down over Brussels has a certain ring to it!

    • Amergin Selby

      Heil Stewart!

  • ButcombeMan

    It is not the campaigning that is the problem, it is the policies and some of the people. (Gove & maybe Pickles, excluded)

    Cameron has pointlessly alienated much of what should be his core vote (e.g marriage re definition). He is not touching the hopes, fears and predicament of ordinary people..

    Osborne for all his sounding off, did not grip spending at the beginning and his last budget unwound-he has no real growth/taxation plan, so he has a huge competence problem.

    As the bank Governor has said, the economy will bump along the bottom for some time yet, so not much relief there.

    The PCC business has been ridiculously incompetently handled, from concept to execution. The almost subliminal incompetence message to the mass of voters, re-enforced.

    Beyond all that Europe festers and UKIP gains confidence and a greater constituency, taking potential votes from right across the political spectrum.

    Cameron has no strategy, his core vote do not really understand what he believes in. What little they do understand, or think they understand, alienates them.

    Cameron has pandered to people who will probably never (mostly) vote for him without guaranteeing any return. It is a classic mistake of misplaced investment.

    The situation is probably irrecoverable, whoever the guru is, brought in to change things.

    • Thick as two Plancks

      I agree with your assessment of Osborne. Get rid of him and a lot of other problems will disappear or become manageable.

  • Gina Dean

    If he had only focused on the key elements of the economy, immigration, out of the EU, cutting the waste in westminster, instead of the nif naf that they had spent time on. We the voters might have given him a chance. As it is they have only thereselves to blame.

  • barbie

    This man won’t change the public perception of the Conservatives. Broken promises, and waffle have destroyed any hope of getting a majority at the next election. Plus the problem of Europe. This nation as pleaded for a referendum, and been ignored. Now UKIP have improved their vote in these last elections they can now see they have a challenger. Its another two years to a general election and they can get stronger as it gets nearer, and he maddnes increases over the channel.
    It has increased this very week, with five member states suggesting they set up a rival to Nato, and ignore Cameron’s veto. A Euopean army is about to emerge, and the UK can do nothig about it, except ignore it. We are nearer to a United States of Europe, nearer to a dictitorial unelected EU government, it is nothing less than revised Nazies on our doorstep again. Those whom we fought for and died for have let them throught the back door, and their foolish beliefs will make them slaves to another regime in disguise. Who will set them free the next time, it will have to be themselves. Cameron therefore as choices to make, to keept this nation free, or doomed to be dicated to like the rest, or the Germans and the French who are proposing such a thing. Take this threat and the Muslim threat from within, we have enough to worry about. Cameron needs to rethink his policies and the security of this nation. A leader he is not. Farage would fill the seat more ablerly.

  • Rhoda Klapp

    Does Lynton Crosby have the bottle to walk into a meeting where they are all moaning ‘the problem is that we can’t get our message across’ and say ‘the problem is that you are getting your message across, and it stinks.’?

    They can’t fix it unless they get him to frame policy, and if they do that, what do we need THEM for?

    • eeore


      Add to that when David Cameron became leader he had policies that were specific and presumably in which he believed. Yet by the the time of the election he had ditched most of them, and adopted the policies of New Labour that had been rejected by everybody but the marketeers with their hand picked focus groups – the proof of which is shown by the decline in trust, the falling circulation of newspapers and MSM news, the dwindling membership of political parties etc.

    • HooksLaw

      It is not beyond doubt. Not least because the choice will expose the ready that OUT is not really OUT at all.

  • West ham united

    Destroy all the socialist quangos and use the money for an almighty tax cut for the 40 percenters. Replace May Day with St George day as bank holiday, job done

  • the viceroy’s gin

    Amazing. All the problems of the land, and the Speccie teenagers are jabbering about campaign staff.

    Perhaps Karl Rove is available. That’d warm you lads’ cockles, wouldn’t it? Plenty of titillation and fun!

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Whatever the Tory plans are they should submit them to the BBC for consideration. The Beeb can then advise on how each measure will be presented and adjust accordingly.

    I doubt very much that dave will submit anything too objectionable and I’m sure that bothcan come to some sort of agreement.

  • Cassandra1963

    “How is David Cameron planning to get re-elected?”

    He knows full well his party will be crushed at the next election, whats more it does not matter to him at all. Cameron is not a Tory PM, we dont have those any more, he is just a representative of the ruling class progressing the same polices as any combination of the liblabcon would, its called the new progressive political continuity. The old politics died with the rise of common purpose and its post democratic era paradigm, its a one party state with three faces. Real power resides in a shadow government with front of house puppets like Cameron and his freak show pretending to be in charge but are in fact mere spokespeople. More and more people are waking up to the ugly reality that the UK is no longer a democracy, elections no longer matter because the will of the electorate no longer matters, the new world order does not take the will of the majority into account, why should it? Vote till you are blue in the face and the real rulers will still be there laughing at the stupid smelly plebs and their delusions of self importance.

    With an income of tens of billions and real control over vast areas of government and its institutions and a common purpose to subvert the principles of democracy to serve their own political ends, it simply does not matter which plausible twat gets in, and lets face it Cameron is a prince among twats isnt he? The public get the illusion of democracy even as it disappears, we think we elect a government to represent our interests but what we now get is a new kind of government that represents their own interests, one that we cannot get rid of. This is the new reality, getting rid of Brown made no difference and getting rid of Cameron will make no difference, the people we need to get rid of dont stand for election, they dont make pathetic speeches, what they do is control puppets like Cameron.

    The aim is to mimic the Chinese model of governance, the so called liberal elite establishment look at China and see it as a template for Europe. No silly democratic time wasting elections, no interfering plebs able to wield the democratic sword of Damocles over the new professional career kommissar corps, no annoying change of political direction at every election, no pandering to the ridiculous plebs. No, all Cameron is employed to do is hang on and make the changes required in the space allotted and then he gets a cushy number and the next puppet takes a turn at the front of house. With electronic voting the electorate becomes redundant entirely, the ruling class just makes up the result to suit themselves. Get this into your heads, its a case of mind over matter, you dont really matter and they really dont mind.


      Very very well put.

    • Salisbury

      When people on the right like you say things like “the will of the electorate no longer matters” what you are really doing is channelling your anger that we don’t have a right-wing government doing the right-wing things you want. You live in the permanent state of delusion that the “electorate” thinks precisely as you do, rather than just the small patch of it to which you belong.

      So you hate Cameron and the coalition government. Bad luck, because it was the “will of the electorate” that put it there. It is you who is contemptuous of democracy because you simply refuse to accept the results it throws up if they are not to your personal taste.

      • Rhoda Klapp

        Surely it is beyond dispute that a lot of people, maybe not a majority, but a lot, given the chance would vote for leaving the EU, limiting immigration, stopping the war, a proper energy policy. The fact is, the big three (or two and a half ) no longer give those people a way to vote that preference. If those issues matter to you, you are stuffed. If on the other hand you are happy to have a range of choices which are pretty much indistinguishable on policy but separated only by personality or tribalism that’s fine, but do not think it is a functioning democracy.

        • Salisbury

          In the Corby by-election just gone, the main three parties between them attracted 80% of the vote while the party that stands most egregiously for those things you think are most important – UKIP – got 14%. These proportions are pretty typical of how Britain today votes.

          You either have to accept these numbers as being representative of the democratic will of the people, or else you are forced down the bizarre by-ways of Cassandra’s ramblings whereby the government we have is the result of a sinister conspriracy foisted upon a people too stupid to notice what is going on. The liberal left and the obsessive right are united in believing that they alone have the insight and intelligence to see how the country should be run. Both sets of arrogances are worthy of equal contempt.

          • Hexhamgeezer

            Do 80% of the people want Brussels lead bank regulation or unelected Slovaks and Estonians producing regulations on toilets and food processing?

            The ‘democratic will of the people’ seems to apply to very small corners of political discourse. Do 80% of people want us in Afghanistan or laws funding Qatada lifestyle and presence in this country?

            Do you honestly think that the options provided by the big 3 parties and the range of debate allowed by the BBC is an honest and accurate reflection of the concerns and wishes of the electorate?

            • Salisbury

              The point you simply can’t seem to get is that this was how 80% of this particular sample of the electorate did actually vote – in an election when there was a UKIP candidate offering, as I assume you would subscribe to, an alternative.

              How do you explain this, other than by recourse to the argument that the people are too stupid to know what is good for them?

      • Cassandra1963

        When all the major parties progress the same agenda and narrative whilst playing to their respective tribal support base, when they create and drive forward a secret and grotesque abomination like common purpose, when they lie and cheat with complete disregard, we cease to live in a free democracy. Common purpose, the evil cancer feeding off the public body, a secretive Masonic cult have an agenda and it does not include democratic principles. You are either blind as a bat or in on it.

      • JP

        Agreed, and it’s pretty much the same on the hard left – everything’s a big conspiracy led by evil corporations. And I wondered how long it would be before someone mentioned the EU … didn’t take long did it.

    • HooksLaw

      An amazing nob-ended diatribe. Typically you get the approval of the nut jobs.
      l wonder it the spectators advertisers have woken up to the IQ of its readership.

      • Cassandra1963

        Typical smear attack, add something of value or keep your insults to yourself eh? But then again thats all you people have to sustain your argument isnt it? Lies and smears just dont cut it anymore comrade.


    Well, where to start on this one? Crosby might mention to his Oxbridge graduate clients that taking years of flack lying down over “The Cuts”, that is, spending the best part of £35,000,000,000 over five years, instead of a possible £36,400,000,000, has been gross stupidity. This level of “Cuts” in any Whitehall department would formally have been known as “a slip of the accountants pen”.
    And he might also mention that Cameron’s failure to dismantle a single strand of enmeshed institutional socialism (and that one individual,David Bell, can have so many fingers in so many state funded pies is the mere tip of this problem) is not only revealing of where he actually stands politically, but of course now makes his own selfish ambition beyond any possible reach.

  • David Lindsay

    A Prime Ministerial entourage of Peter Mandelson, Alastair Campbell, Philip Gould, Carole Caplin and Michael Levy was unseemly enough. But the likes of George Osborne, Lynton Crosby and Steve Hilton represent a previously unimagined nadir.

  • 2trueblue

    Perception is everything. We have no clear idea because they have no clear idea. We have a coalition that none of us wanted but Cameron from the beginning has not been clear what his beliefs are. It has all been words with no substance from both leaders. In the midst of all of this is the mess. Cleaning up is going to take so long and will leave too little time to showcase what is possible. This is not just in the UK but worldwide as all politicians screwed up and we are all taking the hit. Cameron has to find some positives otherwise he is dead in the water.

    • Heartless etc.,

      Never understood what the H2B stood for, do not understand what the H2B stands for now, – and very much doubt I will in future. And of course, now we have an oppo alert to the very weaknesses that we recite here day after day, – and it’s all so bloody painful many good folk could scream with anguish! Perhaps the ‘mission’ of the H2B really is to crush the Tory Party – as his Hero promised!

  • Vulture

    Even the most skilled turd polisher imaginable cannot turn shit into gold.

    And the Tories under David Cameron are as attractive to the voters as dog poo..

    There is also the problem that Crosby is a Conservative and Dave is not.

    • telemachus

      And the Tories under David Cameron are as attractive to the voters as dog poo..
      So the conclusion is to begin to believe in a party that has a Shadow Chancellor that can dig us out of the mess and build for growth

      • RKing

        You don’t mean that pratt Balls do you?
        If so you are a bigger dick head than I imagined.
        He was part of the team that put us in this mess or have you convieniently forgotten that?

        • telemachus

          He a main adviser to Gordon when he rescued America as well as ourselves from the mortgage debacle triggered by the Greedy banks
          Then he worked with Alistair and Gordon to trigger a growth spurt
          The growth spurt that Cameron and Osborne choked off

          • RKing

            Oh I see!!
            It’s Brown Balls that saved the world!!
            I’m afraid that the growth spurt you refer to was choked off because the EU went into recession and cannot be blamed on Cameron and Osbourne.
            Greedy banks would suggest lack of control so what were Brown Balls doing in allowing it to happen?

            Not quite the financial wizards you attempt to suggest I’m afraid.
            Take off your rose tinted specs and live in the real world!

          • David B

            I know you are only posting this to wind us up. Even with rosé tinted specticals on you could never describe Brown as saving the world. It was him and his advisors who wrecked it

            • telemachus

              You may not believe but the rescue of the world banks after Lehman required the steady nerve and expertise of Gordon
              Whatever else you throw at him you cannot take that away from him

              • Telemachus the teletubby

                Yes we can!

              • RKing

                It wasn’t the “steady nerve” of Brown as he didn’t have a f**cking clue on what was happening.
                Remember that this was the guy who told us that he had put an end to boom & bust just prior to it all happening.

                You are a joker telemachus…. stupid but funny!!

                • telemachus

                  When the early years of the twentieth century are judged Blairvwill be vilified for the Iraq war based on lies and Cameron the collapse of Afghanistan to the Taliban byninjudicious earlynpulloutbto appease the media
                  But Gordon Ed and Alistair will be written up as the team that turned the American triggered recession into growth and the team that showed the way to the US administration to rescue Fanny May and Freddy Mac and then their banks. And show the rest of the West likewise
                  Part of the tragedy of the Cameron history will be the misery caused when he choked off the recession

                • RKing

                  Oh you are a silly boy!

                  What do you want Father Christmas to bring you this year?
                  Are you making a list?

                  Your posts do reveal rather a lot of immaturity.

                • telemachus

                  Father Christmas could bring us all an economic package to stimulate growth
                  Snag is Osborne is blinkered

                • Amergin Selby

                  Why do you and all the other blinkered righties here insist on rewriting history to suit your hatred for Brown and Balls. Iam not going to go through it all again except to help you remember that it was the collapse of Lehman Bros in the US that triggered the world collapse not Brown. Now stop reading Tory propaganda and go and read and find the truth for yourself.

                • David B

                  Except it was the London office that triggered the collapse of Leeman who exploited the poor regulatory system here. A system that was criticised by the like of John Redwood when it was proposed because it would cause the problems that arose.

                  Sorry it is Brown, Balls and Millabsnd who are re writing history

              • David B

                I can and I will. The bank bail out was the worst of all possible worlds and has left a legacy that will take many more years to sort out.

                First the bank bail out model was the mostly costly method that could have been used. The government nationalised the liabilities of the banks meaning the tax payer will foot the bill for the banks loses instead of the shareholders and bondholders. There were other models (such as the one Iceland chose) that could have been used. This would have resulted in the end of the political careers of Brown, Balls, the Millaband brothers, etc but that was a price they were not prepared to pay for the good of the country

                Second they left us with contracts that give the banks discression on the payments of bonus, which they now campaign against in the best interest of themselves.

                Third they changed the capital ratios to encourage the banks to lend to the government (including euro zone countries a dirty little secret that is still to come home to roost.). This paid for the spending spree that help in the election but sucked the life out of lending to SME’s. Until the need for excessive lending to government is removed lending to SME’s will be restricted and no amount of window dressing like project merlin will change that

                • telemachus

                  If the banks had collapsed there would have been widespread starvation and civil disorder

                • David B

                  Why was there no civil disorder in Icelabd who let their banks collapse but there has been civil disorder in Greece, Spain and Portugal all of whom adopted the so called Brown world saving model.

                  The answer before u post it is there are a lot more external factors. Hard decisions need politicians with backbone and Brown, Balls, Millaband did not and don’t have it. They would rather kick the can down the road and hope no one blames them

                • telemachus

                  And Cameron does?

                • telemachus

                  There is more integrity and moral fibre in Balls little finger than a gross of TorIes

                • David B

                  Integrity in Balls! Are we taking about the same person!! You seem to be able to airbrush history better than Soviet Russia did to Stalin after his death

                • David B

                  No not much

                • TomTOm

                  Funny that……there is no starvation or civil disorder in Greece or spain or Italy now their banks have been “saved.”….you do believe Bankers PR Telemachus – Angela Knight has you…spooked……like Brown you know zILCH about Banks….he was rolled over like Philip Snowden in 1931…by a Bankers’ Ramp

                • IRISHBOY

                  Well said, and I would add that Brown could do nothing unless it also involved serious malicious politicking and if the cost was billions that would never stop him. His prime aim was to discredit the banks and capitalism as much as he could, and make the state look like some comforting indispensable crutch on which the little man would be ever more dependent. And didn’t he do well?

                • TomTom

                  It was designed by Shriti Vadera FOR Bankers

              • TomTom

                No bAnks were rscued AFTER Lehman – quite the opposite – Concentration was created at State Behest to create Mega Banks like Lloyds and JP Morgan Chase…….the situation is now MUCH WORSE

          • TomTom

            Gordon Brown had no positive effect. ONLY Banks were rescued not homeowners. TARP ws Lemon Socialism just as destroying Lloyds TSB to prop up HBOS. HBOS and RBS together were global mavericks legding klike drunks in USA, Oz and Spain. Britain is the cause of the whole disaster through its Offshore Banking Empire which destabilised the global finacial system by circumventing ALL regulation