Coffee House

Boris Johnson rejects In/Out referendum call

25 November 2012

7:51 PM

25 November 2012

7:51 PM

As on many issues, Boris Johnson has made great efforts to position himself on the side of the Tory grassroots on key issues where the parliamentary leadership takes a different position, particularly when it comes to the European Union. The Mayor signed the People’s Pledge for an In/Out EU referendum in March of this year, but this evening, he appears to have backtracked rather. This is his exchange with John Pienaar on 5Live from a few minutes ago:

Pienaar: Would you still want an In/Out referendum?
Johnson: Well, I’ve always said… I think we’ve been now, what is it? 75 was the last referendum on the European Union: I certainly think that if there were to be a new treaty, for instance, on a fiscal union, a banking union, whatever, then it would be absolutely right to put that to the people.’
Pienaar: What about In/Out though?
Johnson: Whether you have In/Out referendum now, you know, in the run-up to 2015, I can’t, I have to say I can’t quite see why it would be necessary. What is happening, though, John, is that… the thing that worries me, and I’m going to be making a speech about this pretty soon, the thing that worries me is basically the European Union is changing from what it was initially constituted to be: it is becoming the eurozone de facto, and the eurozone is not something we participate in, and I think it’s becoming a little unfair on us that we are endlessly belaboured and criticised for being the back marker, when actually this project is not one that we think is well-founded or well-thought through. It is proving to be extremely painful and difficult, and so I think, if the and when the eurozone goes forward into a fiscal, banking union, into a full-scale political union, then I think it is inevitable, given the changes that will entail to the EU constitution, that you will have to consult with the British people about what kind of arrangements they want, and in those circumstances, yes, you should jolly well have a referendum.
Pienaar: A yes/no, In/Out, that’s got to be part of the deal?
Johnson: Well, certainly, whatever arrangements we strike with our partners, I mean, you see, I don’t think it’s as simple as yes/no, In/Out, suppose Britain voted tomorrow to come out: what would actually happen? In real terms, what would happen is that the Foreign Office would immediately build a huge, the entire delegation would remain in Brussels, UKrep would remain there, we’d still have huge numbers of staff trying to monitor what was going on in the community, only we wouldn’t be able to sit in the council of ministers, we wouldn’t have any vote at all. Now I don’t think that’s a prospect that’s likely to appeal. What you could do is think of a new arrangement, new areas of the treaty that we decided we didn’t want to participate in… that is where people are thinking, now, so I don’t think it is, I mean, with great respect to the sort of In/Outers, I don’t think it does boil down to such a simple question.

So Boris no longer thinks Britain’s relationship ‘does boil down to such a simple question’. It’s an interesting stance to take, not only because the Mayor has previously committed to the Pledge, but also because polling from that same campaign found earlier this month that 53 per cent of Conservative voters in Corby did not think there is any point in a referendum which does not include an In/Out option. As James explained in his column back in May, retaining the In/Out stance would have given the Mayor quite some headway in a future contest for the Tory leadership, as the only candidate promising a referendum.

The suspicion among eurosceptics is that this will allow David Cameron to avoid making the In/Out pledge that many in his party yearn for in his Big Europe Speech that’s due in the coming weeks. If so, it is unusually generous of the Mayor to make his colleague’s life easier. The Prime Minister is giving a statement on last week’s EU budget summit in the Commons tomorrow afternoon: his backbenchers will now be even more desperate to use the ensuing debate to push him on his own position on a referendum question than they normally are, given one of their figureheads appears to have crumbled.

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Show comments
  • Hexhamgeezer

    Reading the Anglosceptic, euroloon coments on here makes one realise just how frightened they are and how desperately they cling to their Brussels comfort blankets

  • barbie

    No surprises here then? Boris will lose many supporters over this they had begun relying on him as a contender for the Premiership. Has Cameron asked him to back off or the party it’s self? Either way its seems a change of arguement is in the air. This government is falling by the wayside over many things. Cutting back to hard, on firemen, who with the present flood warnings cannot manage; their policies are not working. Cameron’s stance on the EU is all bluff and waffle, they’ll decide not him, and if he doesn’t know that he’s the fool. An in out referendum would be the only thing that breaks the deadlock and shows we mean business. Boris as become another let down, the Conservative party is falling each month in popularity, its membership is falling, and no wonder when they have MPs calling for patients to pay for certian medical prescriptions. What does their outlook mean for the poor and elderly? Poverty by a large scale. I’m afraid with changing minds comes changing support from he electorate. Conservatives are not what they were.

  • Stare

    I think it’s a very sensible position to take on Europe. He’s advocating self determination and rule for the UK, but maintaining a direct influence on continental affairs. To say that he’s clearly a Europhile based on that shows that your definition of a Europhile is anyone who wants to maintain beneficial (to the the UK) relations with them and suggests that you’re “swivel-eyed” and quite unreasonable.

  • Majorfrustration

    O Dear – I feel a peerage coming on

  • Chingford Man

    I’m amazed that anyone could ever have doubted that Boris was a Grade One Pole Climber without a shred of principle. Read his latest biography and you see him for what he is. He’d betray us just as he betrayed Marina.

    Vote UKIP.

  • Daniel Maris

    I never had any hopes from BJ on the EU or bankers for that matter.

  • Ian Walker

    A Tory breaking a promise on Europe? Unthinkable.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Boris wants the big job. He never was and never will be someone who will tackle Brussels. I’ve always been bemused at his support (except coming from floating voters)

    We will not be allowed a leader of Lib/Lab/Con who proposes withdrawal.

  • FF42

    Maybe he thinks he will be Prime Minister one day and doesn’t want any hostages. “Cast iron guarantees” have a bad reputation.

    • HooksLaw

      There was no hostage in the Conservative manifesto. As soon as you bring up that point you are bereft of ideas and any convincing argument.
      it was Brown who broke his promise and refused a referendum, it was the conservatives who voted against Lisbon.
      But you and the rest of you with your stupidity would endeavour to elect a europhile Labour govt at the expense of a conservative one. A labour govt that has already broken its promises on Europe.
      And you wonder why I laugh at the likes of you?

      • FF42

        HooksLaw, no-one is going to wonder why you laugh at people. If you can’t insult with wit you might as well be polite..

        Back to the topic. Why do you think Boris Johnson changed his mind?

      • MirthaTidville

        You call this shambles in No10 a` Conservative` Government??????……Then you really are deluded

  • HooksLaw

    Boris says
    ‘the European Union is changing from what it was initially constituted to
    be: it is becoming the eurozone de facto, and the eurozone is not
    something we participate in, and I think it’s becoming a little unfair
    on us that we are endlessly belaboured and criticised for being the back
    marker, when actually this project is not one that we think is
    well-founded or well-thought through. … I think it is inevitable, given the changes that will entail to the EU constitution, that you will have to consult with the British people
    about what kind of arrangements they want, and in those circumstances,
    yes, you should jolly well have a referendum.’

    But the moon howlers cannot recognise the logic. What a bunk of dorks.

    • ButcombeMan

      The political class are trying to wriggle out of an in/out referendum because they know it might well be lost (as they see it). They will use any device to avoid an in/out referendum. They will try to have the inevitable referendum on another basis.

      • HooksLaw

        Dumb ass – Boris has pointed out that OUT is no different in any meaningful way to being IN. I would go further than what he has said. You plainly have no conception of what being OUT of the current EU means. We would still apply single market rules and laws and still have free movement of labour.

        We have a chance to negotiate the best of both worlds but you are too dim to recognise it.
        Fatuous is your middle name.

        • ButcombeMan

          If you had any real brains you would be aware that a little courtesy to those of a different opinion, would get you more attention.

          A UK vote to come out under article 50 gives us two years to negotiate a new relationship. READ THE LEGISLATION AND PLEASE GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF

          In my view (and accepted, it is only my view) the EU boil in the UK national psyche, will not be lanced without an in/out referendum and it needs doing rather quicker than Cameron imagines.

          There has been too much prevarication. No one will believe promises from any quarter now-especially Cameron.

          Cameron cannot now win the next election without being much more robust on Europe,

          Things are that simple.

          The longer the delay goes on, the harder it will be to persuade the voters we should stay in.

        • Malfleur

          If you think that ” OUT is no different in any meaningful way to being IN”, why are you opposed to OUT? Boris is simply keeping his powder dry.

          (By the way, referring to another of your posts above, it’s ‘ad nauseam’ not ‘ad nauseum’. Small point I know; but it’s sickening for an educated man to read the wrong spelling.)

        • Madame Merle

          What a disagreeable person you are Nutjob, I mean, HooksLaw.

          Reading through, most people are expressing an opinion. You, on the other hand, come across as irascible and bad tempered in almost every post.
          Is the gout playing up?

          • IRISHBOY

            Chacun a son gout?

  • paulus

    Hes just waffling on, he clearly just reads the editorial of the Sun to get his understanding of the issue. Could you imagine him doing that at the dispatch box all the parents with kids in Eton would be asking for a refund. A government wouldnt be the only institution he brings down with him.

  • the viceroy’s gin

    The albino isn’t any different than the other Londonistan bubble denizens, so no sense being surprised at this. And it’s good that he’s letting this slip out now, as he’d been building a little cult of personality, and those are dangerous. Now he’ll be on equal footing with the rest of the Cameroons, and an unsure footing it is.

  • The_Missing_Think

    Maybe recent events have made Boris rather fond of London’s backyard politics… in comparison?

    A nice bit of cosy knock abou’ Boris clownery, whilst they deal with that thing that’s defied 38 summit flushes?

    “Our rebate is built into the existing budget. The Swedish, Dutch and Finnish rebates are not.”

    Choppy waters ahead.

    Smart move by Boris, should be all sorted out by 2016, either way.

  • In2minds

    Scared of losing?

  • dalai guevara

    So let’s summarize: Millipede wants in, Cameron has publicly declared he wished to be constructive, BoJo thinks no vote is required. Which leaves us to address the 5% closet fruitcakes…nah, I won’t bother.

  • Noa

    ‘Bless ‘im, in’he a card!
    But Bo Bo doesn’t address the electorate’s concerns about the loss of sovereignty and the real cost of being chained to a corpse.

    He’s really saying:- ‘Lets ignore the rotten stench and see whether we think we’ll be better off if the corpse cuts off its gangrenous legs.’

  • WIlliam Blakes Ghost

    So Boris lives up to the First Rule Of British Politics:

    You can’t trust the Tories over Europe

    • HooksLaw

      What an ignorant dope you are.

      • William Blakes Ghost

        Keep it Up! I wonder how many people you have single handedly convinced with your polite and charming banter and your immense intellect that the Tory party are the party for them?

        If you ever bother to take your head out of your arse and give up the pompous procrastination you might realise that you are the poster
        boy for any of us who anytime might need reminding why not to vote Tory again!

        • HooksLaw

          Pathetic ignorance – wolves howling at the moon display more sense. But you are in fact so far up your own ignorant arse with your thick bigotry that you are incapable of recognising sense when it slaps you across the face. You deserve all the abuse heaped on you.,

          Johnson talks sense your hysteria is totally divorced from the real world.

    • Hexhamgeezer

      Bang on old chap!

      I suspect many frothing pro-eu loons and rabid Anglosceptics will attempt to drown you out with abuse. Stick to the facts, it annoys them no end.

      One wonders what dave the wonder boy has up his sleeve for 2014.

  • ButcombeMan

    Oh Dear

    Boris does not get it either. One would think that an expensive education would make these pathetic politicians do their homework on the main issues of the day. Article 50 applies.

    They are truly hopeless.

    In/out is what most people want as support for UKIP in 2014 will show. After an in/out in favour of withdrawal, negotiations then start.


    Article 50

    1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

    2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European
    Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the
    European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement
    with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking
    account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.
    That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of
    the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be
    concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified
    majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

    3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the
    date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years
    after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European
    Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously
    decides to extend this period.

    4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the
    withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
    the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

    A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article
    238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

    5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its
    request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.


    • mcclane

      Article 50 does not apply. Parliament is sovereign. It is not bound by the decisions of its predecessors. It certainly does not need ‘the consent of the European Parliament.”

      • Bluesman

        “Parliament is sovereign. It is not bound by the decisions of its predecessors.”

        Vienna Convention – to break that would require a “very courageous” politician. Did you have anyone in mind?

        Article 50.

      • ButcombeMan

        You are wrong. The Vienna Convention on Treaties was superseded by Lisbon which for the first time gave a provision covering leaving

  • Anne Wareham

    We’re ‘outside’ a lot of other countries too. How terrible.

  • Madame Merle

    If there was any chance of proEuro win in a referendum, we would have had one by now. There isn’t so a referendum is highly unlikely.

    When Boris takes all night to answer a simple yes/no question, we can only assume that he’s a against a referendum and therefore, a Euro enthusiast.

    As my Latin teacher used to say, “this is most enlightening”.

    • HooksLaw

      What is enlightening is that when Boris is confronted with a serious issue he is capable of vocalising the sane reasonable and logical answer.

      He gives the nutjob tendency a reason for a rethink, but if they are like you we will see quite clearly and precisely what is the definition of a nutjob.

      • Noa

        capable? err um!

      • MirthaTidville

        A continuing member of the useless Tory party perhaps??

      • Colonel Mustard

        How anyone could define Madame Merle’s comment as that of a nutjob is baffling. There is a growing and measurable scepticism about the EU and a clear appetite for a referendum about what has been imposed on this country since 1975. The prevarication and procrastination of supposedly Conservative politicians in the face of this, their weasel words and continued ducking and diving is apparent to anyone with half a brain. By all means defend them and be the lone cheerleader (perhaps with telemachus) for their impenetrable and un-communicated logic but please try to do so without hurling abuse at everyone else.

        • Madame Merle

          many thanks for your comment in defence of my post, it was most gallant.

  • Julian Kavanagh

    This will be an unpopular comment on this site, but the reality of being outside the EU is as Boris said. We’d simply be on the outside looking in and oliged to trade and behave in accordance with rules we couldn’t have any influence over. In / outers are like Alec Salmond. They want a referendum but in the event of a vote in their favour, they have no idea what the new landscape looks like. Which is why both Salmond and those that want to leave the EU will never win a referendum – because they don’t really know what they want.

    • Rhoda Klapp

      My freedom, you wimp.

      • the viceroy’s gin



    • WIlliam Blakes Ghost

      I can’t say whether it is unpopular but it certainly is amusing in a dumbstruck sort of way because most of it is utter garbage!

      To listen to Europhiliacs indulge in their delusion one would think that the EU was the culmination of political development. The political nirvana of Government that the rest of the world can only aspire toward.

      Wakey Wakey, The EU is not the centre of the universe. Being outside the EU will mean we will be the same as the USA, China, Australia, Canada, India, Brazil, Mexico, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Saudi Arabia etc. Are they pulling their hair out and wringing their hands because they do not have inside influence in the EU. No. Furthermore we have seen how nations suffer as a result of the dysfunctionality and ideological zealotry of Europhiliacs. Just look at the pain and suffering in Greece and increasingly in Spain, Italy and Portugal.

      The interesting thing is that Europhiliacs cannot tell anyone what the benefit tothe UK is in being a member of the EU. We are net financial contributors to the EU. We run a trade deficit with Europe and our politicians and bureaucrats I’m sure are just as capable of running our affairs as those in Brussels. The reality is EU is surplus to our requirements. It is an unnecessary and costly layer of bureaucracy and frankly an expensive one we can do without.

      As to the illusion that it is comparable with the Scottish scenario is utterly fascetious.If we voted to leave the EU then people would wake up the following day knowing that we will still have our currency, we will still have our government, we will still have our border control, we will still have our seat at the UN, we will still attend the G8, G10, G20 and every other G number and we will be secure in our diplomatic position, we will still have all of our public sector, we will still have our jobs, we will still have our military and defence,we will still have our customers, Nothing much will have changed for the vast majority. However for Scotland much of that would have changed which is where the problem arises for the SNP

      What will be gone if we leave the EU is a whole tranche of bureaucracy, unnecessary and unwanted interference and increasing dysfunctionality indecision and inappropriate measures as a result of the qualified majority voting of 26 other nations and their diverse vested interests that will only disadvantage this country. Furthermore be assured the overhead of subsidising some of the British regions will pale into insignificance to the handouts that will be voted for by the Eastern and Southern European Blocs in future. It will take benefit scrounging to a whole new national level!

      As to what happens when we vote for freedom? Our sovereign government (doesn’t that sound good) would have to review our legislation and amend it to remove the worst of the EU interference, business would have to adjust their relationship to Europe and the rest of the world,, we would have to burn every occurrence of that crass and disgusting blue and yellow rag foisted on us by the demagogues in Brussels and ‘Ode to Joy’ would once again be an uplifting piece of classical music as opposed to a foul reminder of an arrogant elitist parasitic European political class.

      Bottom line is whatever happens once free of Brussels the British people will deal with it just as they have dealt with every challenge in recent millenia.

      • HooksLaw

        Dimwit. Endless paragraphs full of drivel. Norway is in the EEA, Switzerland has the same arrangement (ie they abide by the EU rules). Canada is negotiating a similar agreement and is also linked closely to the biggest economy in the world. Contenental sized countries like Russia Australia and China?
        Good luck with persuading the rest of the country with that.

        We would still enforce EU single market rules as part of the EEA and allow free movement of labour. Right now even in the EU we have more border control than Norway which is not. And still pay in to regional funds.
        As such there is little difference to being IN as opposed to being OUT. Get this simple concept through your skull.

        You are a hysteric who has no grasp of reality. As such of course you descend into one circle of hell after another because you will not let in the truth.

        • Noa

          “…if they are like you we will see quite clearly and precisely what is the definition of a nutjob.”

  • True Bred Pomponian

    Bollocks, mate. It’s time to call it a day.

    • HooksLaw

      When faced with reality retreat into fantasy.

  • Heartless etc.,

    Oh dear! One less hope! Shame, – had so many hopes for Boris.

    • telemachus

      A puff ball
      A windbag
      Remember the Welsh windbag
      Wel, this is Boris’s Sheffield

      • telemachus

        Welcome back Isabel:we have missed you

    • 2trueblue

      Come on, you really did not think that Bo Jo had the metal when it came to it? That said I am a bit stunned by his lack of lack of ability to string two words together during the interview. He sounds almost incoherent. All said it is best that we now know that London is his limit.

    • David Lindsay


      Boris Johnson is a sexually louche and pro-drugs American citizen. He is an Ottoman aristocrat of very recent extraction, who has publicly recited the Shahada in Arabic. He believes that Christianity overthrew a superior civilisation (slavery, pederasty, the games), and who sees the means to putting things right as being a European Union of which the most populous member-state would be Turkey.

      As the voice of big business Eurofederalism and unrestricted immigration, no less than as the voice of big business social liberalism and as the proponent of decidedly eccentric theological and historical opinions, Johnson is a kind of British Mitt Romney. But as with Romney, desperate members of his beleaguered party will go to any lengths whatever in order to try and convince themselves that he is some sort of conservative, despite mountains of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.

      Johnson was his party’s sole victory at this year’s local elections, in these Islands’ only city where hardly any primary school children speak English at home, and in no small measure due to organised communal voting by a heavily concentrated ethnic minority with closer ties to a foreign and fairly hostile state than, manifestly, to the overwhelming bulk of their own nominal compatriots.

      But even the members of that ethnic minority voted Labour for the Greater London Assembly on the same day, just as the inhabitants of Chipping Norton were voting Labour, and just as Labour was taking 60 per cent and more of the votes cast in Southern villages that it had not contested in 30 years, if ever. Yes, including under Tony Blair.

      And, like David Cameron and George Osborne, Johnson is a member of an organisation which exists specifically in order to commit criminal damage and other offences, even including assault, just so that its members can prove their ability to pick up the bill. Imagine if a group of youths the same age, but who got up at six o’clock in the morning to pay for universities, were to organise themselves into a club, complete with a membership list, officers, some sort of uniform, the works, all for the express purpose of smashing up pubs. They would rightly be prosecuted as a criminal conspiracy, and they could reasonably expect to be imprisoned.

      Mayor of London? President of the Third World Banana Republic of London, more like it. Under no circumstances must he ever become the Prime Minister of what would therefore become the Third World Banana Republic of Britain. Nor will he.

  • NiceTeaParty

    Crikes. Boris wobbles.

    The odd thing is, though, why everyone is so obsessed with the idea of a referendum.

    If Parliament is sovereign, and we keep being told it is, why does Parliament not exercise its sovereignty ?

    Promises, promises, promises of a referendum simply sound like the sound of a can being kicked down the road.

    • HooksLaw

      There is no majority in parliament to leave the EU.
      Even if there was, parliament would have to take in to account what you and people like ButcombeMan refuse to recognise…

      And we would be in the EEA. Effectively as Boris says,
      ‘trying to monitor what was going on in the community, only we wouldn’t
      be able to sit in the council of ministers, we wouldn’t have any vote at
      all. Now I don’t think that’s a prospect that’s likely to appeal. What
      you could do is think of a new arrangement, new areas of the treaty that
      we decided we didn’t want to participate in… that is where people are

      There is no excuse for not recognising that being in the EEA and being in some other sort of more distant EU relationship has very little difference in practice and (and this is where the term ‘nutjob’ deserves its most vociferous use) on this minor point the UKIPermaniacs would actively promote the election of a pro europe highly europhile Labour Party.

      I believe the Labour Party, by all their past record, are by far and away the most potent and clear present danger to the UK. I will not step back one inch in expressing my disgust and despair at the ignorance that would offer them aid and comfort.

      • Noa

        Oh nutjob yourself! In fact nutjob, nutjob, nutjob.
        The crucial difference is the restoration of UK sovereignty.

        • HooksLaw

          There goes the dummy out of the pram. Feeble remark. Any significant trade deal involves loss of sovereignty. NATO involves loss of sovereignty. Parliament has sovereignty to do what it wants.
          The other point of course is that the other bogyman, the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

          The key prize which we might regain, if we can renegotiate as Boris suggests on the back of the inevitable Eurozone treaty, is immigration. But of course Norway and Switzerland both out of the EU both have free movement of labour with the EU.
          At every turn you ignore the reality of where we are in the real world. And you wonder why I treat you with such contempt.

          • Noa

            Oh I borrowed your dummy for a moment, just to see how you liked it.
            You can have it back now that we can see you don’t.

            None of them new; your various arguments have been rebutted and countered on many occasions in the CH column in the view of the majority of the CHrs who evaluate them.
            I regret that, your apparently having reached the meagre limitations of your reasoning means that the subjectivity of contempt is the only effective means of expressing disagreement left to you.

            • HooksLaw

              Yah boo sucks but you have notably no comment to make about the facts of what Boris speaks.
              ‘Majority’ of nut jobs that enjoy talking to themselves here and thinking they represent anything? You expect cheerleaders for racists like Wilhelm to be taken seriously? You really think your fellow travellers have any intellectual capability of forming a rational analysis? You are a bunch of dorks who cannot recognise plain speaking even when explained to you by people like Boris in words of one syllable.

              Every word you utter on this topic illustrates what a fantasy land you inhabit.

              • Noa

                Do seek help soon.

                • HooksLaw

                  No respose then. The issue in effect has passed you by. You have all the same cogent capability on the issue as one of Pavlov’s dogs.

                • Noa

                  I’m sure that nurse will be with you soon…

                • HooksLaw

                  Ad nauseum is your middle name.

                • Noa

                  Presumably you meant to write “cognitive capability”?

              • Noa

                “ have notably no comment to make about the facts of what Boris speaks”.
                I’ve already commented, below, on what this rambling, diffuse, equivocating red herring means.

                • HooksLaw

                  You are clearly incapable of uinderstanding plain English. You have no english comprehension abilities whatsoever.
                  Either that or you have not actually read what he has said.

                  But own up you are not interested. Admit it. You and all the others are happier just locked into your own little prejudice.

                • Noa

                  Read it, evaluated it and dismissed it for the ill-articulated, dissembling puff that it is.

      • Colonel Mustard

        I thought exactly as you did about two years ago and hoped that Cameron and his clique might see it too. Instead they set about driving even more conservatives into the arms of UKIP by badly thought out policies and extraordinary own goals. The disaffection is growing, not reducing, and Cameroon arrogance is making it worse. When Labour win it won’t be the UKIP “nutjobs” to blame but the simple fact that Cameron is a bad Tory, a hopeless communicator and a useless PM.

        • barbie

          I share most of your thoughts. Today in the Mail about five Tory MPs have suggested people with certain medical problems which are self induced, they suggested diabetis, should pay for the own drugs. How selfish is that? After all they may have paid NI and taxes all their lives or still paying, if they work they already pay for prescriptions, so who are they referring to, the elderly. No wonder the membership is falling, my vote goes to ukip.

  • HooksLaw

    ‘so I think, if the and when the eurozone goes forward into a fiscal,
    banking union, into a full-scale political union, then I think it is
    inevitable, given the changes that will entail to the EU constitution,
    that you will have to consult with the British people about what kind of
    arrangements they want,’

    Which is what I have been saying…