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A great historian with fascist tendencies has died

2 October 2012

1:52 PM

2 October 2012

1:52 PM

A great historian has died. He joined the Nazi party in the 1930s, spurred by a fear of the communism which was then spreading through Europe. Although he survived for many decades to see the consequences of the ideology, he nevertheless remained nostalgic for, and loyal to, fascism.

He also retained an active interest in the Conservative party and acted as a guru for a time to John Major, though he subsequently expressed disappointment at the direction of his leadership. In a statement the current leader of the Conservative party, David Cameron described the historian as:

‘An extraordinary historian, a man passionate about his politics and a great friend of my family’.

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He went on to say:

‘His historical works brought hundreds of years of British history to hundreds of thousands of people. He brought history out of the ivory tower and into people’s lives.’

The historian’s highly-praised and award-winning books were in later years occasionally criticised for downplaying or denying the crimes of Nazism. Friends and colleagues pointed out that when he joined the Nazi party communism had posed a real threat to world peace. He took up numerous positions of seniority and influence in British universities.

In recent years some controversy was caused when he was asked whether the deaths of millions of people in the Holocaust would have been justifiable if it had led to the fascist state he wished to bring about and he replied ‘yes’. Lively, witty and convivial, he remained a central figure in far-right circles and was always able to draw a crowd at the Hay-on-Wye festival and the salons of literary London.  For his many notable achievements he was given numerous awards. In 1998 he was made a Companion of Honour.

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Show comments
  • rndtechnologies786

    Good blog.

  • Kelvin disguised as Spartacus

    Funny innit, how this spoof flushed out the closet nazis we have in our midst…not really much between you lot and Hobsbawn except for the colour of shirt you wear.

  • fitzfitz

    … imagine the BBC/Guardian/NY Times nexus giving such complete info to its audience …

  • fitz fitzgerald

    This chappie, though honored, was presumably a spy …

  • Yes, but…

    Fascism = bad intentions
    Communism = good intentions

  • Connor B

    This is a nasty article, the man has passed away, show some respect.

  • Noa

    Excellent Mr Murray. The best obituary I’ve read for many a year, and these days my contemporaries feature in more than a few of them.

    Now I wait with impatience to read your eloquent plea for the overdue canonisation of the English Martyr Sir James Saville.

  • James

    I well remember all the documentaries the BBC had Hobsbawm present; about empire, and Churchill and the history of money and Henry VIII. And what about all the times he was invited onto Question Time or The Moral Maze and the like? It was as if the BBC just wanted to give him air time to promote his fat books based on secondary sources.

    Oh, no, wait that’s not Hobsbawm, it’s those other lefty historians: Ferguson, Roberts, Starkey, Schama…

  • Radford_NG

    5 Oct. c.5.45am. BST……..Half way through I began to suspect a satire:however in the 1930s a leading journal of the left [Peace News] was so pro-peace its pages could hardly be told from those of Oswald Mosley’s paper.And it lived on for me to be beaten-up-on by it’s associates some four decades later.[Try google-in it.]

  • Yogi

    Golden! Well played

  • Barry

    Excellent.

    All that needs to be said.

  • rookcrow01

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2010/12/wicked_leaks.html
    Tyler Kent and Archibald Maule Ramsay.

    I just wonder if Eric Hobsbawm was in the Right Book and if he knew
    Capt. Ramsay and co. or was he as a friend of the English Establishment
    left to roam the safe places free from the attentions of MI5.

    Archibald Maule Ramsay: The Nameless War: a book written while in prison,available as pdf if interested.

  • James Martin

    Oh, I see. Well, I guess when Thatcher snuffs it it will be fair game to mention her support for Pinochet, then.

    • Angela

      You and I both know that will not be the worst thing the rabid left (which is more or less all of them) will say about her. Thanks for posting though. It’s good to be reminded about people like you.

  • Eddie

    Hilarious, spot-on first rate bitch of an article, Mr Murray! Great!
    Should be printed off and posted on every university history department noticeboard in order to make the hypocrite leftie historians hang their haughty heads in shame!
    I shall bathe in putrid frogspawn this evening whilst quaffing vodka to celebrate the great historian’s demise!

    • Sarah

      “I’m sorry if it sounds like I don’t care about millions of Chinese getting vaporised in war, but frankly I don’t” – My life as a Hypocritical Rubbish Historian, by Eddie, 2012.

      • Eddie

        Sarah: calm down dear!
        Nurse! Nurse! Mentali misandrist stalker Sarah’s having another episode!

        • Eddie

          Mentalist Sarah – remind me again about that famous feminist sense of humour?
          Oh no, wait – got it wrong. It’s the famous feminist LACK of humour. Now your pinched little puritanical dullard-dribbling moralising makes sense.
          Haven’t you got an effigy of Harriet Hardman to worship or something – (you can melt the face of a Barbie doll and pad it out if you need one quick); there’s certainly more chance of a piece of plastic taking your humourless saddo obsessive manhating ratings seriously than anyone here.
          And while you’re at it, do look up the word ‘hypocrite’, love – this will have the effect of:
          1) letting you know what the word and concept mean, and why I’m not one, and
          2) making you realise that in your professed belief for gender ‘equality’, your other professed belief that all men are bastards, evil scum who should be crushed and abused, sort of qualifies you as a first class hypocrite. You see, you say you want equality then spend all day promting the exact opposite – because you want men to suffer inequality.
          But Sarah – Well done, you! Yay! Go Sarah the Saddo Misandrist! You win the Harriet Hardman Hypocrite of the year award! Against some really stiff competition, I must say…
          Your prize is a copy of Animal Farm, paid for by money stolen from your pension plan and our children’s future. You’ll love the book – all the men are utter pigs!
          Though of course there are not enough older women in it, something the new BBC adaptation for Christmas will address, so as better to reflect the diversity of British society (and watch out for the new characters Pakistani Pig and Polish Plumber Pig, together with Diversity Dog and Croatian Cat – well over half the pigs will be black, at least in part, thereby reflecting a changing Britain (which the BBC hopes will exist before too long); and then there’s the disability awareness new characters: Two-headed Tamworth and Stumpy Two-spot and…well, I won’t spoil it, but after the Paralympic, who doesn’t like a good stump eh? The BBC is committed to celebrating diversity and reflecting a changing Britain, as we all know… even if it bears no relation whatsoever to reality.
          Just to say: you might have to share your award with one heck of a lot of other feminists and Labour party members, pet – hope you don’t mind.

          • Sarah

            But Eddie love, I’m laughing every time I reply to you.

        • Eddie

          Mentalist Sarah – remind me again about that famous feminist sense of humour?
          Oh no, wait – got it wrong. It’s the famous feminist LACK of humour. Now your pinched little puritanical dullard-dribbling moralising makes sense.
          Haven’t you got an effigy of Harriet Hardman to worship or something – (you can melt the face of a Barbie doll and pad it out if you need one quick); there’s certainly more chance of a piece of plastic taking your humourless saddo obsessive manhating ratings seriously than anyone here.
          And while you’re at it, do look up the word ‘hypocrite’, love – this will have the effect of:
          1) letting you know what the word and concept mean, and why I’m not one, and
          2) making you realise that in your professed belief for gender ‘equality’, your other professed belief that all men are bastards, evil scum who should be crushed and abused, sort of qualifies you as a first class hypocrite. You see, you say you want equality then spend all day promting the exact opposite – because you want men to suffer inequality.
          But Sarah – Well done, you! Yay! Go Sarah the Saddo Misandrist! You win the Harriet Hardman Hypocrite of the year award! Against some really stiff competition, I must say…
          Your prize is a copy of Animal Farm, paid for by money stolen from your pension plan and our children’s future. You’ll love the book – all the men are utter pigs!
          Though of course there are not enough older women in it, something the new BBC adaptation for Christmas will address, so as better to reflect the diversity of British society (and watch out for the new characters Pakistani Pig and Polish Plumber Pig, together with Diversity Dog and Croatian Cat – well over half the pigs will be black, at least in part, thereby reflecting a changing Britain (which the BBC hopes will exist before too long); and then there’s the disability awareness new characters: Two-headed Tamworth and Stumpy Two-spot and…well, I won’t spoil it, but after the Paralympic, who doesn’t like a good stump eh? The BBC is committed to celebrating diversity and reflecting a changing Britain, as we all know… even if it bears no relation whatsoever to reality.
          Just to say: you might have to share your award with one heck of a lot of other feminists and Labour party members, pet – hope you don’t mind.

      • Eddie

        Sarah: calm down dear!
        Nurse! Nurse! Mentali misandrist stalker Sarah’s having another episode!

  • http://twitter.com/IrateBrit John Mackie

    ouch!

    And spot on.

  • In2minds

    The man in the front has a haircut like Ed Balls

  • DanB

    Urgh.
    An attempt at something.
    Think twankery for think twankers by a think twanker.
    Clap……clap……clap.

  • michaleko

    Douglas Murray is scum and the Spectator is scum

  • http://twitter.com/etonmessuk etonmess

    Bit crap this. Doesn’t even make much sense.

    Thinking about it a bit more, it’s actually a really, really crap article.
    Tomorrow, when you wake up in the cold light of day, you’ll probably get all embarrassed and ask the Spectator to delete the article because it is really, really crap.
    They won’t though, as it is still a million times better than anything Rod Liddle has written, ever.

  • http://twitter.com/etonmessuk etonmess

    Bit crap this. Doesn’t even make much sense.

    Thinking about it a bit more, it’s actually a really, really crap article.
    Tomorrow, when you wake up in the cold light of day, you’ll probably get all embarrassed and ask the Spectator to delete the article because it is really, really crap.
    They won’t though, as it is still a million times better than anything Rod Liddle has written, ever.

  • http://twitter.com/DelroyBooth Delroy Booth

    “In reality, she was a champion of freedom and liberty”

    Yeah when all those fireworks are being let off up and down the country the day she finally kicks the bucket, I’m sure it’ll be because they’re celebrating the freedom that Maggie gave them.

    It’s even better than the Telegraph blog this, lol what a bunch of old cranks!

  • Egon

    Douglas Murray I see what you did there….

  • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.klaff Sharon Klaff

    Brilliant. When I heard an interview on radio 4 in which he said the 20 million killed in pursuit of communism didn’t happen on his watch and then threatened to walk out of the interview if the interviewer (I think it was Simon Sharma) pressed the point, I realised the true worth of this pseud. What’s more its appalling that a wannabe PM of this country, a rich boy from Primrose Hill with delusions of belonging to a sink comp alma mata, can heap praise on such depravity. I guess the Cane and Able histrionics of the Milliband brothers says everything we need to know about the Labour Party and why we must never again allow it to governs his country on our behalf.

  • Daniel Maris

    Hmmm…I think it’s a lot more complicated than that. European Imperialism probably killed more people than Nazism ever did if one takes into account genocide, removal of habitat, land theft, wars and starvation. But there are plenty of pro-imperialists who are respected historians and offered the honours of our society.

    There is a difference between the motivations of Nazism, Imperialism and Communism – and one might say Islam.

    Nazism was a self-consciously genocidal project that sort to allow about 10% of the world’s population exterminate or dominate 90% who would be reduced to the status of second class citizens or slaves if not actually murdered.

    Communism – a Jacobin-style offshoot of social democracy sought justice and welfare for all humans. Its methods ended up being vile and, as it were, began eventually to cancel out its aims. But its aims had a certain nobility about them – giving the poor and ignorant the means to live well and to become educated – that Nazism could never have.

    Imperialism shared many of Communism’s methods including population movements, censorship, imprisonment of dissidents, withdrawal of food rations and at its worst was not really easily distinguishable from Nazism (cf Namibia and Congo).

    I think it is in this context, that Hobsbawm’s life has to be judged. He was an anti-Nazi and an anti-Imperialist. By hitching himself to Communism he took a wrong turning.
    But I think we have to have sympathy to people caught in the currents of history – a Jew born in Egypt, whose family had to flee to Britain.

    Incidentally I don’t reserve this sympathy for the Hobsbawms of this world. I think one
    should also for instance have some sympathy with those in the Baltic states who responded with vicious anti-semitism after the yoke of Communism was lifted. While we can never justify their actions, these were people who had lost family members to the Communists, who knew that hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens had been deported to frozen wastes or been murdered ,and Jews were heavily over-represented in the Communist Party apparatus at the time.

    • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.klaff Sharon Klaff

      Perhaps you’re influenced by reading too much Hobsbawn

      • Daniel Maris

        Perhaps you don’t want to engage with what I wrote.

    • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.klaff Sharon Klaff

      Perhaps you’re influenced by reading too much Hobsbawn

    • Malfleur

      ” European Imperialism probably killed more people than Nazism ever did
      if one takes into account genocide, removal of habitat, land theft, wars
      and starvation…”

      1. “probably” – which means that you haven’t done your research, can’t be arsed, have a parti pris and are taking a wild, uninformed guess, but you would like it to be so.

      2. “if one takes into account genocide, removal of habitat, land theft, wars
      and starvation”, diphtheria, whooping cough, pneumonia, cancer,elephantiasis influenza, syphilis, smallpox,bubonic plague, coughs, sneezes, headaches, and old age.

      3. In 12 years?

      etc.

      • Daniel Maris

        Probably – It’s difficult to disentangle what caused the deaths of millions of
        of Native Americans under the impact of European Imperialism.

        But certainly one can lay the African slave trade and exploitation, the Congo genocide, the Namibian genocide, the Tasmanian genocide – to name a few – at the door of Imperialism. You could throw in all the deaths of the Great War – a classic war of imperialism. There were famines in Ireland and India which the British Imperialists did nothing much to stop – one can fairly add those millions of deaths at their door.

        You wouldn’t have minded the Nazi regime if they’d spread their killing over 200 years?

        • TDK

          What do you mean it’s difficult to disentangle…

          We know for sure that the majority of Native American deaths were caused by epidemics.

          The African Slave trade predated the influence of the West. It existed for thousands of years before Magellan. For a brief period demand picked up so that apart from indigenous and Arab clients there was an additional western component fed from the Atlantic sea ports. It’s interesting that you blame only western imperialism for this. Do the African sellers have any blame attached? The trade continued after the West banned it and half a century later formed one reason justifying colonisation – Livingstone and others wanted to abolish it.

          But more curious is the fact that slavery was ubiquitous on planet earth until the west ended it. Yes we have guilt but uniquely we made possible a world in which it began to come to an end. Do we get the credit for that?

          Exploitation – this is a loaded term that means different things to anyone not rendered brain dead by Marxist indoctrination

          The Tasmanian genocide remains a controversial idea – see History Wars.

          And so on.

          • John Dub

            While the left furiously tells any black person that the UK is inherently racist and that they should hate “old England” they always seem to forget that the Royal Navy tried to enforce a worldwide ban on slavery for 152 years (the remit formerly ended in 1957)
            For example read a history of Brazil… Slavery ended when the Royal Navy turned up and ended it without seeking any payback …
            Do the left ever try to teach young black people to be proud of their country…? No just carry on with the hate….

            • Daniel Maris

              The British Empire carried on with slavery as opposed to the slave trade for several decades. The French had abolished slavery back in 1790. We weren’t in the van of these developments.

          • Daniel Maris

            TDK –

            1. Many of the epidemics were associated with overwork, enslavement, rape, and population transfers (e.g. movement of Native Americans to reservations far from their homelands).

            2. I am not exempting other slavers from condemnation – we are comparing Imperialism with Communism and Nazism, so if Imperialism has a record of slavery, that has to be put into the account.

            3. The Buddha called on his followers to avoid trading in slaves (as part of the 8 Fold Path) long before Christian communities got round to it.

            4. If you think you would like to be treated as the Tasmanian Aboriginals were, let me know.

            5. Exploitation was not a term I used. But I think one can certainly distinguish between clearly unethical treatment and ethical treatment. For instance, enslavement, land theft, eviction of peoples, rape, cutting off body parts (all part of imperialist practice), forced/unpaid labour, false treaties , massacres, racial discrimination and so on are unethical. But there are examples of ethical treatment as well e.g. trade and bartering with people; attempts to reform the behaviour of natives who might practice enslavement, massacres, cannibalism and so on.

          • Laurence

            Excellent post TDK. Interesting, isn’t it, how Arab involvement and participation in the slave trade is almost always elided by those who seek to hang all of the ills of the world upon the West?

    • T. Botham

      T.Botham
      Spare us “noble intentions”. Hitler’s intention was noble: he wanted to cleanse the human race of genetic pollution (Jews).

      There are many Muslims actually in power today who have identical noble intentions: cleansing the planet, or history, or the Zionist cancer. It is part of Islamic doctrine to reduce Christians and Jews to the second-class status of dhimmi. That has the noble intention of elevating Muslims to the dominating positions Allah promised them.
      Communism is not an”offshoot” of social democracy. It does not seek justice and welfare for all humans. Quite the reverse. It seeks equality. Another noble intention. One that is definitionally unjust, impoverishing and emiserating. It has never given the poor and ignorant anything but more poverty and greater ignorance.
      European Imperialism? The British Empire did a lot of good. More good than the Soviet Empire. The Roman empire comes out fairly well against the Persian, Mongolian, Ottoman and Arab empires…All of them had noble intentions: glory, conquest, peace, prosperity, stability…The proposed Muslim empire also claims universal peace and spiritual cleanliness. Noble.
      Hobsbawm should be judged – and condemned – on the noble intentions he shared with communism. He does not deserve sympathy for finding refuge in Britain. He deserves congratulations.
      Please do not slop your sympathy bucket about. That kind of sympathy is not noble.
      Feeling sympathy for the victims of (nobly-intentioned) communism to blame the Jews is preposterous. Stalin purged the Jews. And Jews are “over-represented” in any group compared to their number as a proportion of the general population. Jews were not so dominant a majority of communists that communism could be identified as a Jewish movement – and all Jews despised because of it. (Jews are over-represented among Nobel Prize winners, but that doesn’t make the Nobel Prize Jewish.) But shouldn’t the Balts have felt sympathy for Jews seeking equality? Not really. Antisemitism – across time and place – is always considered by its proponents as a noble and ennobling thought.
      You might think that your jaunty fair’s-fair approach is noble. But it’s both feeble and nasty.

      • Daniel Maris

        You seem to be the one indulging in a species of moral relativism where all intentions are equal. I am afraid I don’t see an equality of intention between Eleanor Roosevelt, Adolf Hitler and Mohammed.

        I wasn’t defending the intentions of the Baltic Anti-Semites – only calling for historical understanding to be applied to all peoples across time.

        However, I do distinguish between the desirability of intentions.

      • Daniel Maris

        You seem to be the one indulging in a species of moral relativism where all intentions are equal. I am afraid I don’t see an equality of intention between Eleanor Roosevelt, Adolf Hitler and Mohammed.

        I wasn’t defending the intentions of the Baltic Anti-Semites – only calling for historical understanding to be applied to all peoples across time.

        However, I do distinguish between the desirability of intentions.

  • Tatty_D

    De mortuis nihil nisi bonum, the Barbarians crawl out. Lets see if anyone remembers this micro talented writer, let alone mark his passing.

  • Tatty_D

    De mortuis nihil nisi bonum, the Barbarians crawl out. Lets see if anyone remembers this micro talented writer, let alone mark his passing.

  • Miles

    You do realise that quote you attributed to Cameron was actually from Miliband? I really don’t think I can trust anything you write if you can’t even distinguish the PM from the Leader of the Opposition.

  • Miles

    Is…this serious? I genuinely can’t tell if he’s trolling everyone or if he’s genuinely this stupid…

    • http://twitter.com/DelroyBooth Delroy Booth

      yeah he really is that stupid. Despite an expensive education Douglas “Too posh to join the EDL” Murray has shit for brains.

      • Daniel Maris

        Do you find it difficult to put together an argument?

      • Malfleur

        Did you say that you were a toddler when this article was written?

      • anotherjoeblogs

        douglas murray has a very functional healthy brain and you know it – that’s is why he p*sses you off !

  • CraigStrachan

    Just followed the link here from Alex Massie’s take on Hobsbawm. Alex’s take may not be quite sublime, but this is surely ridiculous.

  • Simon

    In another piece of sad news, satire died at 13:52 this afternoon.

    • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.klaff Sharon Klaff

      Satire certainly served its purpose at 13.52 today and DM is its hero.

  • Patrice Evra

    Reminder for when Thatcher dies that we seem to have established it’s cool to speak ill of the dead.

    • scooby509

      Hobsbawm established his respect for the dead by excusing the horrors of Communism. If you can establish that the Baroness acted similarly in the face of such inhumanity, you’d have a solid case to be disrespectful of her. In reality, she was a champion of freedom and liberty and that’s why you hate her.

    • David K

      In contrast to Hobsbawm, who made a life out of *ignoring* the dead.

  • Denis Irwin

    On the positive side, a lot of the millions that died due to Communism were people like Douglas Murray.

  • Denis Irwin

    On the positive side, a lot of the millions that died due to Communism were people like Douglas Murray.

    • http://www.facebook.com/billcam Bill Cameron

      Exactly what are you saying here? That the “positive side” would be that “people like Douglas Murray” died? Can this really be what you imply?

      • scooby509

        Denis Irwin means exactly what he writes: “On the positive side, a lot of the millions that died due to Communism were people like Douglas Murray.” That’s eliminationist rhetoric pioneered by Stalin, and it is entirely a mainstream idea on the left.

    • http://www.facebook.com/billcam Bill Cameron

      Exactly what are you saying here? That the “positive side” would be that “people like Douglas Murray” died? Can this really be what you imply?

    • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.klaff Sharon Klaff

      How disgusting!!,

    • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.klaff Sharon Klaff

      How disgusting!!,

    • http://twitter.com/DelroyBooth Delroy Booth

      10/10 comrade, I’ll put in the papers for an Order of Lenin medal right away!

  • http://twitter.com/DelroyBooth Delroy Booth

    Haha Douglas Murray is a troll, a bigot, and someone who’s own politics is much closer to fascism and totalitarianism than Hobsbawm’s ever was.

    Is the the same Douglas Murray who was disowned by the Tory party for being too racist/bigoted against Muslims? How much of a raving maniac do you have to be have to have the Tories reject you I wonder? I think it’s an honour Murray shares with Nick Griffin and the monday club and all the other closet Hitler-worshippers who can’t get over the fact their side lost the second world war still lurking in the Tory party (Adrian Burley anyone?) Don’t forget Nick Griffin comes from a Tory background, as to many other far-right maniacs.

    I think being lectured on supporting vicious and hateful ideologies from this squalid little bigot is a bit too much hypocrisy for me too handle thanks!

    Besides, making out like the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany are exactly the same is historically dishonest. The Nazi’s were far worse, something that thoughtful and intelleigent conservatives such as Winston Churchill recognised during the 1930’s, which led to the alliance between Britain and the Soviet Union. And i’m by no means a defender of the Soviet Union or Stalin (neither was Hobsbawm, as anyone whos’ actually read his books would be able to tell you, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a good foaming-at-the-mouth right wing rant whatever you do Douglas) but any worthwhile historian interested in the objective true history could tell you the same, ee also Ian Kershaw, Ruth Henig, Richard Overy, Norman Davies etc etc etc Infact any schoolkid who’s done GCSE history could tell you the same. Murray does not fall into this category, he is a cheap shill and discredited 2nd rate propaganda artist.

    However today it seems Murray and other such hatemongers are keen to play historical revisionism, trying simultaneously to play down the crimes of the Nazi’s whilst using credulous sources and lies to falsley discredit their political opponents. This is to be expected, after all Murray’s comments on Islam in Europe that got him in such hot water with the Tories, and led to his expulsion/proscripton, were nothing short of genocidal. In Hitlers day of course Jews and Communists (Nazi’s considered the two things as one big conspiracy) were the main targets of this kind of hatred, whereas today Murray interesting in promoting genocide of Muslims. What links the old fascism and the likes of Muray is the shared Anti-communist hysteria, which is the umbelical chord that links people like Murray to their fascist intellectual forebears.

    • http://twitter.com/wallaceme Mark Wallace

      “i’m by no means a defender of the Soviet Union or Stalin” – so you’re not the same Delroy Booth who is a leading light of the Marxist “Demand Nothing” collective whose “About Us” page on their website is simply a large Hammer and Sickle? #commiefail

      • http://twitter.com/DelroyBooth Delroy Booth

        A leading light? I wish! I’m nowhere near cool or militantly left-wing enough to be in the “inner circle” of Demand Nothing infact I’m regarded with suspicon because of my Labour-ish, social democratic tendencies.

        I’m a Democratic Socialist in the Ralph Miliband, New Left, Post-Bennite sort of mould. Y’know, the ones who rebuilt the country after the war against fascism destroyed it. The ones who build the NHS, not the gulag. Yeah them.

        Besides I was a toddler when the Berlin Wall came down, to me Soviet Communism is a historical phenomenon, not a political philosophy I feel any loyalty too. This is just intellectually bereft ad hominem attacks. You can slate Stalin and the USSR all day for all I care, heck I might even agree with you on parts of it.

        Demand Nothing are, broadly, Anarcho-Maoists. I just did an article for them once.

        • Daniel Maris

          A democratic socialist? Don’t you find non-democratic, woman-oppressing, gay-hating totalitarian Islam offensive then?

          • http://twitter.com/DelroyBooth Delroy Booth

            Yes I do as a matter of fact. Why wouldn’t I? “non-democratic, woman-oppressing, gay-hating totalitarian Islam” as you put it goes against everything I stand for. I make no secret of it either.

            So does mass murder and genocide. However I’m not the one with a track record of publicly endorsing genocidal acts against Muslims, it’s Douglas Murray who’s into that, not me.

            The irony of a man who has a track record for encouraging collective punishment and religious persecution complaining about Eric Hobsbawn’s supposeed unrepented Stalinism is an irony lost on a lot of people here. Too many empty platitudes, not enough critical thinking, but then again that’s what I’ve come to expect from the modern-day right.

            You can’t beat Islamo-fascism by resorting to old school european fascism, which is something the likes of Douglas Murray, Pam Geller, Ratko Mladic, Nick Griffin and the EDL do not understand.

            Douglas Murray would be stood on the street corner chanting about burning down mosques with the rest of his EDL fellow travellers if he hadn’t had the stroke of luck to be born into a wealthy patrician family.

            • anotherjoeblogs

              how can islamo-fascism be defeated then ?

              • Daniel Maris

                …and answer came there none…

                • anotherjoeblogs

                  that is the problem with these lefty know-alls. they condemn every action yet place their ideas as superior. leftism must be the ultimate introversion

                • anotherjoeblogs

                  that is the problem with these lefty know-alls. they condemn every action yet place their ideas as superior. leftism must be the ultimate introversion

    • Van_Patten

      You mean the same USSR that signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in 1939? And had as its war aim the enslavement of millions in Eastern Europe? That one?

      • Clayton Blackmore

        No, the one that signed an alliance with the UK, that had as it’s war aim the preservation of a system enslaving millions on the Indian subcontinent. That one.

        • Kyoto

          Churchill may have had a personal desire to keep India as part of the empire, but there was no such British war aim. The British had declared that once the war was won India would gain independence.
          Indeed such was the British retreat form India that whist there was a war plan to deal with the internal Indian situation, this had nothing to do with continuing British rule in India. It was a plan to evacuate British personel if India descended into communal violence before British withdrwal.
          Indeed it is pretty apparant – though it remained unsaid – that following World War One the British realised the game was up in India. Hence the negative British reaction to Amritsar. Also exmpliefied the the abject failure of the ‘last ditcher’ opposition in Parliament to the Governance of India Bill (?) in the early-1930s.
          Indeed given that British withdrawal was so apparent it is really questionable if there was a need for someone like Ghandi, and whose stunts appear little more than a piece of self-important grandstanding.

    • victor67

      Indeed Murray said life for Muslims in Europe should be made hard. I think Murray would be aghast at the Nazi comparison as he is an ardent Zionist although they have found common cause with the fascist EDL

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-McCarron/100000517046230 Don McCarron

        The EDL’s stated purpose is to resist the spread of Islam in the UK. How can you call that “fascist”? And, as you’re one of the increasing number of people using the word “Zionist” in the pejorative , perhaps you’d define it for us?

        • victor67

          Happy to. Zionism is the ideology that Jews need a homeland to live in safety. Its birth occurred in the late 19 centuary by Theodore Herzl when anti-semitism was rampant in christian Europe. Perhaps a noble enterprise
          However the birth of Israel in 1948 inflicted grave suffering on the Palestinian arabs. This crime has never even been ackowledged or even less to rectified. This is the core of the I/P conflict and the stain on Zionism that will not be removed till justice and basic human rights is granted to the Palestinians in two states or now more realistically one state.

    • http://twitter.com/Hitchslap_82 Andy M

      The only troll here is, quite obviously, you. I’ve not read such drivel since the last time I had the displeasure of mistakenly clicking on a Mehdi Hasan article.

    • Baron

      Delroy Booth, you a toddler when the Wall came down, were you? well, young sir, you seem still to have the brain of an infant, have you ever exercised the fledgling brain cells to figure who built the Wall and why? Baron lived behind it, got sent down for speaking against it by people of a dogma the man you so worship was backing all his life, Hobsbawm kept his red communist party card even after 1956 Hungary, 1968 Prague Spring, not unlike his masters in the Kremlin, the man didn’t give a quarter hoot about the plight of the unwashed, his delusional obsession with the creed of the communist barbarians informed his teachings, his academic work, his take of the world, how could one ever hold the view that a just, civil and tolerant society of equals can be built on the graves of the millions, ha?

      You though would have done well under the Red Menace, it was their style too to attack, destroy the man rather than the views the man held. One day when you get off the bottle you may view things through a different prism, trust Baron, he knows, he’s seen it happen.

      and this:

      well done, Murray, you’re a star, not only to the point, witty, too.

    • Baron

      Delroy Booth, you a toddler when the Wall came down, were you? well, young sir, you seem still to have the brain of an infant, have you ever exercised the fledgling brain cells to figure who built the Wall and why? Baron lived behind it, got sent down for speaking against it by people of a dogma the man you so worship was backing all his life, Hobsbawm kept his red communist party card even after 1956 Hungary, 1968 Prague Spring, not unlike his masters in the Kremlin, the man didn’t give a quarter hoot about the plight of the unwashed, his delusional obsession with the creed of the communist barbarians informed his teachings, his academic work, his take of the world, how could one ever hold the view that a just, civil and tolerant society of equals can be built on the graves of the millions, ha?

      You though would have done well under the Red Menace, it was their style too to attack, destroy the man rather than the views the man held. One day when you get off the bottle you may view things through a different prism, trust Baron, he knows, he’s seen it happen.

      and this:

      well done, Murray, you’re a star, not only to the point, witty, too.

    • Eddie

      “You can’t beat Islamo-fascism by resorting to old school european fascism, ” –
      by which you mean defending Enlightenmarnt values, tolerance, pluralism, democracy and decency against those who would destroy it. You can actually destroy fascism with force (look up World War Two sonny).
      Methinks you need a dictionary for Winterval, where you can look up ‘fascism’ – and ‘appeasement’ – and while you’re at it, look up ‘whose’ too eh? Good luck in your English GCSE anyway huh…
      The fact is this: you CAN’T beat Islamofascism by appeasing it, kowtowing to anyone with a dark skin and a religion, betraying our decent hard-won values, and betraying all the Muslims and non-Muslims oppressed and abused by these Islamic thugs. You can’t tame a crocodile by feeding it – because sooner or later, it’ll want you for lunch! When will you IDIOT socialists learn?
      Your Islamo-appeasement is 1) utterly hypocritical (you would not defend them so much if they had a white skin and no religion), and 2) just appeasement of the kind that socialists tried in the 1930s, in France especially.
      In terms of people murdered, Stalin is worse than Hitler – though they both wanted the sort of state ownership and control that socialists like you so desperately desire. Ergo, it is you who have adopted fascist policies Delroy, and it is you who are the extremist.
      But I grant you, the Nazis had much sexier uniforms and are fun to read all about in GCSE history (a bigger pile of leftie poo it is hard to find). If you bang on about how the Nazis were like well bad, and Mary Seacole (an insignificant historical figure) was like well good, then you can get an A star easy peasy!

    • Eddie

      “You can’t beat Islamo-fascism by resorting to old school european fascism, ” –
      by which you mean defending Enlightenmarnt values, tolerance, pluralism, democracy and decency against those who would destroy it. You can actually destroy fascism with force (look up World War Two sonny).
      Methinks you need a dictionary for Winterval, where you can look up ‘fascism’ – and ‘appeasement’ – and while you’re at it, look up ‘whose’ too eh? Good luck in your English GCSE anyway huh…
      The fact is this: you CAN’T beat Islamofascism by appeasing it, kowtowing to anyone with a dark skin and a religion, betraying our decent hard-won values, and betraying all the Muslims and non-Muslims oppressed and abused by these Islamic thugs. You can’t tame a crocodile by feeding it – because sooner or later, it’ll want you for lunch! When will you IDIOT socialists learn?
      Your Islamo-appeasement is 1) utterly hypocritical (you would not defend them so much if they had a white skin and no religion), and 2) just appeasement of the kind that socialists tried in the 1930s, in France especially.
      In terms of people murdered, Stalin is worse than Hitler – though they both wanted the sort of state ownership and control that socialists like you so desperately desire. Ergo, it is you who have adopted fascist policies Delroy, and it is you who are the extremist.
      But I grant you, the Nazis had much sexier uniforms and are fun to read all about in GCSE history (a bigger pile of leftie poo it is hard to find). If you bang on about how the Nazis were like well bad, and Mary Seacole (an insignificant historical figure) was like well good, then you can get an A star easy peasy!

    • James Martin

      “Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board… It should go without saying that Muslims in Europe who for any reason take part in, plot, assist or condone violence against the west (not just the country they happen to have found sanctuary in, but any country in the west or western troops) must be forcibly deported back to their place of origin… Where a person was born in the west, they should be deported to the country of origin of their parent or grandparent.” Murray, 2006

      Seems pretty extreme to me.

    • James Martin

      “Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board… It should go without saying that Muslims in Europe who for any reason take part in, plot, assist or condone violence against the west (not just the country they happen to have found sanctuary in, but any country in the west or western troops) must be forcibly deported back to their place of origin… Where a person was born in the west, they should be deported to the country of origin of their parent or grandparent.” Murray, 2006

      Seems pretty extreme to me.

    • James Martin

      “Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board… It should go without saying that Muslims in Europe who for any reason take part in, plot, assist or condone violence against the west (not just the country they happen to have found sanctuary in, but any country in the west or western troops) must be forcibly deported back to their place of origin… Where a person was born in the west, they should be deported to the country of origin of their parent or grandparent.” Murray, 2006

      Seems pretty extreme to me.

    • James Martin

      “Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board… It should go without saying that Muslims in Europe who for any reason take part in, plot, assist or condone violence against the west (not just the country they happen to have found sanctuary in, but any country in the west or western troops) must be forcibly deported back to their place of origin… Where a person was born in the west, they should be deported to the country of origin of their parent or grandparent.” Murray, 2006

      Seems pretty extreme to me.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-McCarron/100000517046230 Don McCarron

      You really need to calm down, take the blinkers off and read Murray’s piece again. Hopefully you won’t need it explaining to you what an ill-informed, hysterical load of garbage your rant is.

  • TP_Mac

    Will there be a similar outpouring of grief across the establishment, if say David Irving were to die?

  • ScottLucas11

    Nasty post which passes up the chance to engage with the strengths and weaknesses of Hobsbawm’s work….

  • Vulture

    The outrageous thing about Frogspawn is that his hero Stalin killed many more people than Hitler and still he revered him and still the Establishment ( not just the Left) fawned on him.
    All this crap about him being a great historian is balls..as Michael Burleigh points out in the Telegraph, the only original writing he did was on Sicilian banditti – though I doubt he did much research ‘in the field’.. like his great friend Ralph Miliband Hampstead was more his manor – well away from the workers donchaknow.
    An utter and complete scumbag in evey possible way.

  • Tron

    This thought about double standards crossed my mind yesterday but you have nailed it.
    Imagine the BBC News reading this out.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Arik-Yacobi/611412730 Arik Yacobi

      Better still, imagine the Guardian printing it! Did you see their fawning obit yesterday?

      • Sarah

        Well of course the Guardian wouldn’t print it, they are left-wing. But the Telegraph and the Spectator would with minor alterations.

  • WetherspoonThree

    I am not surprised he was attracted to the party of John Major…it was after all later described as the ‘nasty party’ something which came as a terrible shock to life-long Conservative supporters. But as a revisionist historian and fellow traveller he had the satisfaction of helping to re-brand the New Conservative away from their traditional supporters and helped to ensure that their new policies alienated nobody and confused everyone. The loss of legions of supporters in the long march to New Conservatism was described as a price worth paying and those who defected to UKIP were characterised as right-wing lackeys and running dogs

  • MarjorieET

    Never thought I would agree with Douglas Murray. Hole in one!

    • Passerby

      Game, set and match to Murray.

  • MC2

    Like.

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