Coffee House

Can UKIP become a serious political party?

21 September 2012

10:00 AM

21 September 2012

10:00 AM

UKIP members are gathering for their annual conference in Birmingham today and frustratingly for the party, it remains a niche political event. Unlike the media explosion for the other three political gatherings, UKIP’s two day rally will have no wall-to-wall TV coverage and little in-depth analysis of the speeches.

But since Nigel Farage gathered his flock last year, Britain’s other party has seen its profile raised substantially. Martin Kettle admitted in the Guardian this week that UKIP are now a ‘force to be reckoned with’ who could become kingmakers that will ‘shape the 2015 election and the politics of Britain and Europe for a generation’.

Polling suggests they are indeed a significant political force. Looking at Ipsos MORI voting trackers, UKIP potential share of the vote  has risen steadily over the past year and occasionally challenged the Lib Dems for third place. You can highlight an area on the chart below to zoom in on how their vote share has changed:

[Alt-Text]


The major benefactor to UKIP rise in popularity has undoubtably been the Prime Minister. David Cameron’s decision to keep the Tories firmly in the political centre ground, while batting off discussions on immigration and EU membership, has continued to frustrate the more right wing party members and supporters. Dissatisfied Tories have found a natural home with Farage and if they continue to build in numbers, the strength of UKIP threatens to split the Tory party, especially if an EU referendum becomes a reality. Paul Goodman examined the possibility in the Telegraph this week:

‘The Ukip leader evidently hopes that similar co-operation during another [EU membership] referendum would bring a similar outcome – that a No vote and Tory splits would divide the Cameroon leadership of the party from its base. Mr Farage is trying to wean his party off the EU issue alone, woo traditional Tory voters and park his guerrilla army on Mr Cameron’s lawn.’

If UKIP are planning to wreck havoc on the Tories, are Farage and co. still willing to cut a deal with the Conservatives to benefit both parties at the next general election? On the Daily Politics show, deputy UKIP leader Paul Nuttall confirmed they are open to an olive branch:

‘I think you never say never in politics, and it all depends on where we are in 2015. If we come off the back of the European elections and we’re still polling double digits I think the Conservatives will find it very difficult not to come to us and offer us some sort of deal because it will be clear then that they can’t form an outright majority without our support.

But the party appears to be undertaking a subtle move away from Europe. Although EU troublemaking remains their bread and butter, there are increasing signs that UKIP are shifting from being a pressure group to a full-on political party, as Nuttall outlined:

‘You can deliver as many signatures to Downing Street as you like. It’s pie in the sky – the only way you’re going to deliver a referendum if by fighting elections and hitting them at the ballot box.

‘We’re polling double didgits. In all likelihood we’ll go on and win 2014. We have to be very careful with the referendum issue, because there have to be checks and balances.’

There are other signals too — Farage is dumping their cheap-ish pound sign branding to move to something more inclusive. Plus, this weekend’s conference schedule consists of not just debates on EU policy but also discussions on policing, health, defence, energy, agriculture and transport. However, there is one significant void on the agenda — a discussion of education policy, although the party’s approval of grammar schools remains well known.

As I’ve written previously, the 2014 European elections remain the critical test point as to whether the last few years of positive polling can be transformed into electoral success. Even if they trounce the Conservatives at the European elections, UKIP has a fair distance to go before they are a serious contender on the national stage. For now, Farage can remain content as a serious hazard to a Tory majority in 2015; by dragging away the disgruntled Tory voters David Cameron so desperately wants and needs to hang onto.


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Show comments
  • http://twitter.com/tomvahkiin Tom M

    No. Next.

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  • M. Wenzl

    UKIP may be on an upward climb but they’ll still remain a fringe party for quite some time. Besides some silly novelty ideas, they were effectively founded as and remain a single issue party. Farage is the only notable member, with much of the party’s appeal manifested in his charisma and straight-speaking. It took the Lib Dems years to build up their base and they already had a head start! UKIP’s seats are hardly going to rocket at the next election, not least because of the electoral system.

  • Major Plonquer

    I think we should go even further and have a national debate about crime and punishment. I for one would like to see us bring back the death penalty. Specially for criminals.

  • BuBBleBus

    An in-out referendum is an easy option to placate the masses, however to put some historical perspective, the EU’s primary purpose is to weld the bits of Europe together such that they don’t go destroying each other as was their wont since time immemorial. A tall order, but a worthwhile vision nonetheless. A dissestablishment of all the freaky nation-states such as Germany and France, with hangers-on Italy, and erstwhile superstate Spain. So the stakes are somewhat higher than fuddling little Great Britain being in or out, if it all goes pear-shaped and Germany invades Greece, or … So hang in there and see what must come to pass comes to pass.

    • james102

      Demographics has done the job already.
      Europe is an ageing feminised continent and its countries are no military threat to anyone .

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-May/100003627395180 Roy May

    Here is a list of all the seats UKIP spoiled for the Tories at the last election and this was before they formed an alliance with the Liberals. I cannot see the Tories winning again unless they hold an in/out Referendum on the EU BEFORE the next election. Cameron must be stupid if he thinks anyone will believe a promise of referendums after the next election, it’s time he went. Bolton West: Labour 18,329; Conservative 18,235; UKIP 1,901 Derby North: Labour 14,896; Conservative 14,283; UKIP 829 Derbyshire NE: Labour 17,948: Conservative 15,503; UKIP 2,636 Dorset mid & Poole: Labour 21,100; Conservative 20,831; UKIP 2,109 Dudley North: Labour 14,923; Conservative 14,274; UKIP 3,267 Great Grimsby: Labour 10,777: Conservative 10,063: UKIP 2,043 Hampstead & Kilburn: Labour 17,332; Conservative 17,290; UKIP 408 Middlesbrough South: Labour 18,138; Conservative 16,461; UKIP 1,881 Morley (Ed Balls): Labour 18,365; Conservatives 17,264; UKIP 1,506 Newcastle-Under-Lyme: Labour 16,393; Conservatives 14,841; UKIP 3,491 Plymouth Moor View: Labour 15,433; Conservatives 13,845; UKIP 3,188 Solihull: Liberal 23,635; Conservatives 23,460; UKIP 1,200 Somerton & Frome: Liberal 28,793; Conservatives 26,976; UKIP 1,932 Southampton Itchen: Labour 16,326; Conservatives 16,134; UKIP 1,928 St Austell & Newquay: Liberal 20,189; Conservatives 18,877; UKIP 1,757 St Ives: Liberal 19,619; Conservatives 17,900; UKIP 2,560 Telford: Labour 15,977; Conservatives 14,996; UKIP 2,428 Walsall North: Labour 13,385; Conservatives 12,395; UKIP 1,737 Walsall South: Labour 16,211; Conservatives 14,456; UKIP 3,449 Wells: Liberal 24,560; Conservatives 23,760; UKIP 1,711 Wirral South: Labour 16,276; Conservatives 15,745; UKIP 1,274 This list will be a lot longer in 2015 I think the nub of the issue here is the word Democracy, you have no doubt watched the video where Cameron states quite unequivocally that the British electorate should have a referendum on the EU. Now the argument has been voiced that the Lisbon Treaty was done and dusted before he was elected and he has quite bogusly hidden behind this fact. However recently there was an e-petition demanding a debate on a European referendum and this subsequently took place in the HOC. Nevertheless when it came to a vote on this issue Cameron put down a three-line whip to ensure its defeat thereby proving beyond any doubt that he is an undemocratic fibber. Now all opinion polls taken result in an overwhelming percentage of the British electorate are desperate for an in/out referendum and even when he applied his three-line whip in the HOC over 80 of his own MPs defied him and voted for a referendum. Clearly then on this issue he is totally ignoring both the electorate and a major number of his own MPs for many that voted to support the whip only did so under duress. His bogus pro referendum announcements before the election went some way to ensuring his win but he has now not only reneged on his views on referenda but also took active steps to ensure that one would not take place. At the last election UKIP offered Cameron an opportunity to win all these seats by withdrawing their candidate providing he would carry out his promise of a referendum. Cameron declined and it may well have cost him an overall majority. I realise that with UKIP in the mix the Tories will not only loose the next election but may well remain in the political wilderness for at least a decade. His deceit has cost the Conservative cause a great deal for many are now switching their allegiance not because they are no longer Conservative in outlook but they have lost all trust in the Tory party leadership. Cameron can promise and even put into law that we will have a referendum after the next election but it just wont wash for no one will believe him, he is a dyed in the wool Europhile and any referendum held will have the ballot paper choices so worded that make the result a fudge. Nothing short of a straight forward in/out referendum BEFORE the next election can save the Conservatives and I for one will never vote Tory whilst we are denied one and many others I know feel the same. I accept that UKIP won’t win the election but Cameron deserves to loose and he will by a country mile. UKIP will however win the European elections hands down. It will be interesting to see by how much the Tories loose Corby The government are studying the mechanics of holding a referendum on the EU in order to make it seem like we are getting an opportunity to vote on the issue of in or out. However what they are really doing is trying to work out how to present a referendum that guarantees whatever the outcome we stay in. Therefore Cameron can claim to be acting for the majority by this referendum when in reality he is trying to con us all again. All this talk of claiming back powers is simply nonsense for any change to our term will require the consent of all 27 EU members. DON’T BE FOOLED AGAIN BY THIS SHOWER, VOTE UKIP

    • ButcombeMan

      Exactly.
      Where I live it is quite plain that UKIP are also winning potential votes from one time Libem supporters.

      Cameron just does not get, the depth of alienation about the EU now.

    • Geoff

      After the Euro elections it will become difficult not to allow Farage equal opportunities on the TV debates. Clegg is only in government because of his performance in those shows at the lecturn with Cameron and Brown. Then just watch Nigel go.

    • Cato The Elder

      That is the UKIP position summarised so well. The balance of power is in their grasp, all they need to do is be what they already are – a political party that a normal person can believe in. With that, they can hold slick Dave, to ransom. The funny thing is that Farage is far too normal and not Westminster Village to be even close to being drawn in: imagine : . “Oh, come in and meet Sam and the kids, then we can discuss the areas on which we are so, so close”……….. “Naaaahhh, I’m off to the pub. I’m not changing my mind, because I actually believe in what I stand for. Give me a call when you want to commit in writing to ……that list I will write when I get home after last orders. See ya!”
      . (Top of my list would be the resignation of slick Dave) .

  • perdix

    Vote ukip, get Labour, get more EU.

    • james102

      We may need more before we are prepared to act. The Conservatives are something of a safety valve.

  • t5nel

    undoubtably – when did that become a word? I think the word you are looking for is undoubtedl.

    • t5nel

      or undoubtedly even…

  • james102

    The really strange thing is the tenacity with which the old parties still hang on to sections of the electorate.
    Labour opens our borders which creates problems primarily for its core supporters ,but they continue to vote for it ,albeit in declining numbers, the Conservatives implement pro-EU policies and increase the state’s interference with peoples’ lives and their supporters continue to vote for them—the LibDems….what can you say?

    The power of marketing.

    Are we going to have anything about Andrew Mitchell’s mad rant? It has it all.Snobbery,anti-police a couple of days after two policewomen are murdered, a bike, a funny nickname:Thraser. A gift for Labour.

    • telemachus

      All Rugby alumni are the same
      Just one up from Eton and Westminster

      • telemachus

        I see from the next thread that you have a profound influence on Speccie.
        Respect

        • ellis000

          Talking to yourself now fool?

      • james102

        Nottingham High School?

      • james102

        Nottingham High School?

  • Nicholas

    Maybe it’s time for an English Spring or our own orange revolution. A feeling that enough is enough that sweeps the country and consigns all the usual suspects to the dustbin of history.

    • telemachus

      Heartily agree
      Majority vote on the usual suspects

    • Dimoto

      You really do think that your wacky nostrums are shared by a huge majority of people, don’t you ?

      • Nicholas

        No. I’m just commenting. I have no idea whether or not it is because it has never been put to the test.

        • Cato The Elder

          What you must remember is that anything looking like revolution belongs to the Left. Anything that might really, really set people free, or hold governments to account is bad. Viz: Stalin, anything to do the Common Market that became the EEC, then the EU, North Vietnam, China, Che’s Cuba – remember that ?………

          We are just reactionaries, that want to hold people back by giving them choice. That’s why Margaret Thatcher is bad, because she enabled so many council tenants to buy their own homes and join the real economy, as opposed to being forever in the thrall of the Local Authority.

          We want to suppress them by giving them freedom of choice and a free vote in most things. Ergo – we are fascists!!!!!!!!!!1

    • trevor21

      I’d rather have a red revolution.

  • Stephen Hodgson

    Sack Cameron, make Boris party leader and he’ll be the next prime minister , no problem. Even Labour voters will vote for Boris just because they like him !

    • telemachus

      ‘Cept Scousers

  • Russell

    As a lifelong conservative voter and supporter I will be voting for UKIP not only in the european elections, but in the next general election. I will not be voting UKIP for any other reason than to show my disgust at the conservatives who will not give me a referendum on leaving the EU. I now don’t care if the conservatives lose the election as a result of my changed vote and millions like me. The matter is too important to let cameron & Co waffle on and deny the British people a referendum.
    I am not interested in any other UKIP policies as I know they will never form a government.

    • telemachus

      Russell
      I am delighted that there are many like you
      That way we will be certain of a growth agenda in2015
      (0r earlier if we have a few more Clegg CDs)

    • Dimoto

      But will you stay in Blighty to experience steadily rising taxes, “revaluation of Council tax” (read Mansion tax for the middle classes), more Quangos stuffed with Labour apparatchiks, much more regulation, an over-cosy relationship between government and police, more legislation on “equality”, a more “relaxed attitude on immigration, reversal of education reforms with the NUT back “in charge”, British agreement to a new “ever closer union” treaty with Brussels (with surrender of opt-outs, higher “budget contributions” and more Baroness Ashtons), a further decline into the politics of sleaze and thuggery (the Balls model), yet more “surveillance” and snooping, and all the other delights a government of the Eds will bring, or, as a true UKIP patriot, vote for Farage, then bugger off to some bolt-hole in Europe, the States or the Caribbean ?
      It seems you have a memory every bit as defective as those millions who now say they will vote Labour.

      • Reconstruct

        All these are, of course, very good reasons to take a five-year break from Britain under another dreadful Labour government. But if the Conservatives are committed to keeping us in the EU no matter what – and that’s what Dave’s said, isn’t it? – then it looks as if its a price we will have to pay in order for Britain to stay a free and independent country.

        What do you not understand about this? Plenty of people just absolutely want out, in order to reclaim our democracy. Saying that if we don’t play ball, then the democratic process will give us something we don’t like is. . . . well, no shit Sherlock. You know, we kind of get that already?

        • Dimoto

          Maybe unfortunately, but Europe won’t just go away. We have to have some sort of relationship with it. At the moment, our paths are rapidly diverging, so a “reallignment” is inevitable (unless Labour/Libdems are returned).
          But all in good time, and UKIP has precisely nothing to contribute – except to serve as a good party of protest and stress relief.

    • David Barnett

      That’s right! Throw your rattle out of the pram. That’ll teach those nasty grown-ups.

      • Reconstruct

        David Barnett. I don’t understand why you adopt this condescending attitude. I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s comments like yours above which for me typify the arrogance with which the three main political parties dismiss the popular desire no longer to be in the EU. Why are you so convinced that your evident desire or willingness to stay in it is somehow more ‘grown-up’, or more rational? Is there some great benefit about losing effective democratic accountability over large areas of policymaking confers upon us? If so, please so good as to enlighten us. After all, you, apparently, are the one with mature judgement.

    • Al

      In the west country where my folks reside lots of people voted ukip inprotest at the tories being wet to get elected at all, and they got a lib dum mp as the votes got split. So you can huff and puff all you like if you vote for ukip you’ll get labour or limp dim.

      your final line ‘i am not inerested in any other UKIP policies’ says it all.

      your stupid protest vote will get you nowt.

  • Nicholas

    In response to the headline – hope so.

    But please, Cameron is not keeping the Tories in the political centre ground. He is dragging them to the left. The centre ground shifted soon after 1997 and it has all moved leftwards which makes it easier to abuse real conservatives as far right loons. The proposition about conservatives is unrelated to their actual beliefs but is just a widespread acceptance of left wing characterisation and propaganda. Sadly the own goals of people like Cameron and May have aided and abetted this. It is not the Tory party that needs de-toxifying but the left wing propaganda about the Tory party. The narrative of trying to occupy the centre-left ground is weak and damaging. Cameron should be creating a new narrative about conservatism – but he won’t because he is slippery and what you see is not what you get. He is, like Brown, driven by ideas of popularity and engineered votes rather than political integrity and passionately believed in policy.

    • David Barnett

      And,at the other exreme of sheer battiness, we have the famous Polly Toynbee castigating this as the most right-wing government ever.

      • Nicholas

        The comments you have made here so far – all desperately anti-UKIP damage control – puts you firmly in the category of incredible rather than batty – sheer or otherwise.

  • Douglas Carter

    Good article Sebastian, very even handed but I’d take issue with …’Even if they trounce the Conservatives at the European elections, UKIP has a fair distance to go before’…
    Look again conceptually at that possiblility. If – a big if, but nonetheless – UKIP poll a majority in the EU elections, then they’ve secured an unambiguous message from the electorate that the voters want to leave the EU. Yes, I know that comment is loaded with a dozen flaws and caveats, but in purely electoral definition terms, with UKIP standing for EU withdrawal, the electorate are seen to vote thus. (Yes I know – electoral turn-out, weather, Government unpopularity etc, etc – just grist to the mill…).
    With the main three parties insisting the importance of EU membership, it’s a very strange thing they’d then insist ..’Well, it’s only EU elections, who cares about that?’… It becomes an extremely tricky condundrum for them. In historical terms, EU elections most certainly do influence the national debate. In the 1989 EU elections, the Greens had a dramatically advantageous day, after which the established Political movements felt they were compelled to adopt Green policies to sideline that threat of losing.
    As it will be here. I’m a UKIP voter, stretching back to when the Referendum Party fought the 1997 election. I don’t believe UKIP will ever form a Government. But that’s not my aim. Eventually, at least one party will be compelled to take the policy on board to negate the threat, as per 1989.
    There’s more than one way to skin a cat, as they say…
    (Apologies for the lack of spaces, but the paragraphs I type are then compressed upon posting. Anyone tell me how to re-instate the gaps?…)

  • Vulture

    UKIP have the Tories firmly by the balls and they should just keep on squeezing.
    Despite the patronising tone of this article ( and scores like it written by Bubble inhabitees) UKIP are here to stay, and their support can only increase as the EU 1) becomes ever more oppressive and intrusive 2) implodes economically.
    It’s pretty simple really: an In/Out referendum or Tories lose the next election because of UKIP votes.
    Personally I want them to lose, and I don’t think Nige should have anything to do with Mr Slippery. The Tories need to be shot of the disastrous Dave and if it takes an election loss to do it, then so be it.
    PS> The phrase is ‘wreak havoc’ not ‘wreck havoc’ Sebbie : we can tell you never went to Eton. Or Westminster.

    • telemachus

      Yes Tories rid of Dave and in the hands of Lord Johnson of Liverpool

    • David Barnett

      Must you be so crude?

    • http://georgeigler.com/ George Igler

      Yeah buddy, whatever. So UKIP will demand a referendum on their core issue as a precondition for being in a coalition with the Tories, will they?

      And they’re thoroughly convinced the public consensus will be on their side, hmmm?

      Remind me again how that worked out for the last party that thought so?

      I seem to recall it went something like:
      (1) The establishment rallied round its own best interests.
      (2) The electorate dutifully followed the instructions given to them.
      (3) The issue in question has now been permanently taken off the political agenda for at least a generation.

  • Noa

    “…Farage can remain content as a serious hazard to a Tory majority in
    2015; by dragging away the disgruntled Tory voters David Cameron so
    desperately wants and needs to hang onto…”

    And which he has treated with such contempt that the Conservative party will struggle to canvass door to door at the next election.
    UKIP will also take votes from the centre and right of Labour.

    • telemachus

      You are wrong about Labour.
      The left are so disgusted with the Coalition that all right thinking people will vote in the Eds
      Gr oath is the main concern of the majority and only Balls has a strategy

      • sandywinder

        But is growth of borrowing and the national debt what this country really needs?

        • telemachus

          Fiscal concerns have gone
          We now must address the GNP

          • Jer

            We must have some idea what GDP really measures before valuing it so highly.
            It’s been massaged for years under the last lot, and means very little now.

          • Jer

            We must have some idea what GDP really measures before valuing it so highly.
            It’s been massaged for years under the last lot, and means very little now.

      • Eeyore

        What utter, er, Balls.

      • woolfiesmiff

        Strange then that so many Labour supporters are joining UKIP. Oh and if UKIP and Tories get their act together Ed Balls wont be in parliament next time no matter who wins the election overall

      • woolfiesmiff

        Strange then that so many Labour supporters are joining UKIP. Oh and if UKIP and Tories get their act together Ed Balls wont be in parliament next time no matter who wins the election overall

      • Noa

        And how would you know how many disillusioned voters Labour will lose? ‘Oldem Balls is, despite R’ed, Labour’s electoral greatest liability.

  • TomTom

    Will the Conservatives make the transition from being a City Lobbying Group to being a national political party ? Who knows ? The portents are not good.

    • telemachus

      So what do UKIP stand for.
      It is all there on their website.
      *
      Get out of Europe
      And
      Our Way Of Life
      • Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech.
      • The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law.
      • End the ban on smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels.
      • Hold County wide referenda on the hunting ban
      *
      Ah so a referendum on the hunting ban
      I understand
      This will bring voters in in droves

      • Nicholas

        Sounds pretty good to me – and all true.

        • telemachus

          Yes back to the foggy snug with a shotgun on arm and retriever at feet

          • james102

            Change that to Pit Bull and it could be an Inner City scene. We seem to be in the midst of a social experiment. Difficult to choose between your description of Ukip’s Britain and the reality.

          • woolfiesmiff

            Er you are getting a bit mixed up here aren’t you? What has a shotgun and retriever got to do with a hunting ban?

            Why are you scared of a referendum on the issue?

            You also left out two of the most nationally popular policies which are a rise in the level at which income tax kicks in thus benefiting millions of low paid workers ( rather than taxing them more like Labour) and the return of Grammar schools.

            So do you actually have any thoughts on all these other policies?

          • woolfiesmiff

            Er you are getting a bit mixed up here aren’t you? What has a shotgun and retriever got to do with a hunting ban?

            Why are you scared of a referendum on the issue?

            You also left out two of the most nationally popular policies which are a rise in the level at which income tax kicks in thus benefiting millions of low paid workers ( rather than taxing them more like Labour) and the return of Grammar schools.

            So do you actually have any thoughts on all these other policies?

          • Nicholas

            I do not own a shotgun, I do not have a retriever and I do not participate in bird shoots, although I do support that centuries old English tradition of the fox hunt – not least because it gets up the noses of lefties like you who assume it is for “toffs” rather than English countrymen. My snug is not foggy because Labour banned smoking in it – even clay pipes. It is now full of miserable looking pensioners chomping on second rate meals and Labour “educated” chavs playing billiards. The oversize flat screen TV blaring wall to wall sport is a crime against civilisation. Ergo it is no longer my snug.

            Do you deal in anything other than crude characterisations and abuse of those whose political views disagree with yours?

            • http://twitter.com/MarkyMarkSurrey MarkyMarkSurrey

              Rather a pathetic response, u support a sick tradition, carried out my mindelss inbreds of tearing apart whilsts till alive of of innocent
              foxes and there cubs, because “it gets up lefties noses” you stupid man. i hope i meet you one day

          • TomTom

            The thought of Telemachus at your feet makes you wish for a shotgun

            • Cato The Elder

              Nooooooooooo, let him enjoy free speech, just like the rest of us, for the remains of his useful life. He’s been such a good advocate for UKIP to date.

              What say, you, Telemachus?

              When did our govt last consult you about immigration, our country’s own laws, the budget of the EU, our contribution thereto, border control……………… .

            • Cato The Elder

              Nooooooooooo, let him enjoy free speech, just like the rest of us, for the remains of his useful life. He’s been such a good advocate for UKIP to date.

              What say, you, Telemachus?

              When did our govt last consult you about immigration, our country’s own laws, the budget of the EU, our contribution thereto, border control……………… .

      • Nicholas

        And, if you oppose these ideas then you must support the undermining of our traditional values, teaching children to be ashamed of our past, continuing with a split society, stifling free speech with political correctness (well, we already know you do on that one – the evidence is littered throughout this site), and endorse the imposition of foreign law.

        What say, telemachus twin of Trotsky, do you support all those things?

        • telemachus

          You immediately will understand the in accuracy of your sound bite
          Not only is Leon the inferior of Joseph but he was a loser

      • Eeyore

        Thanks for summing UKIP’s policies up so cogently. They’ve got my vote.

      • Primrose Hillbilly

        Why do you undercut your own argument so obviously.? You state that there are other issues in addition to the hunting ban, then you reduce it all back to that.

        This just invites us to believe that you’re just an “anti hunting” guy. Thus you undercut yourself, as well as making the UKIP case so well,

        BTW, the Get Out of Europe riff of yours, and the law of the land thing are, by and large, the same thing.

    • woolfiesmiff

      You do know that there are more Labour supporters in the City, you do know that the leading partners in top investment banks and traders are Labour / Democrat supporters. You do know that the EU top economic positions are all the same lefty city boys?

      Meanwhile the Tories only represent themselves

    • woolfiesmiff

      You do know that there are more Labour supporters in the City, you do know that the leading partners in top investment banks and traders are Labour / Democrat supporters. You do know that the EU top economic positions are all the same lefty city boys?

      Meanwhile the Tories only represent themselves

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