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Britain must resist Iran’s terror groups

7 September 2012

6:23 PM

7 September 2012

6:23 PM

These two stories are unlikely to make big news, but they should.

Speaking in Amsterdam on Wednesday night, the Dutch Foreign Minister, Uri Rosenthal, urged fellow European Union members finally to designate Hezbollah as a terrorist entity. Rosenthal said ‘The Netherlands has made another appeal to European Union members to place Hezbollah on the EU list of terrorist organizations.’ Commenting on Hezbollah’s involvement in the violence in Syria Rosenthal added, ‘You see what happens when this organization is allowed to operate freely.’

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Then earlier today the Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister, John Baird, announced that his country is to suspend diplomatic relations with Iran and expel Iranian diplomats from Canada. Baird also announced that as of today the Canadian government is going to list Iran formally as a state sponsor of terrorism. ‘Iran is among the world’s worst violators of human rights’ he said. ‘It shelters and materially supports terrorist groups.’

Now that the Canadians and Dutch have led the way, will this country’s line on foreign terror entities operating out of the UK toughen up?

Perhaps it is something which Baroness Warsi might focus on now that she has been appointed William Hague’s number two at the Foreign Office?


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Show comments
  • rndtechnologies786

    Good thought.

  • Augustus

    When Benjamin Netanyahu was first elected Prime Minister of Israel in the 1990s he pointed a finger at anti-democratic regimes in the Middle East, specifically
    calling the Iranian government a despotic, militant and fanatic regime, and
    warned that if Iran obtained nuclear weapons it would pose a danger not just to
    Israel but also to the Middle East and the entire world. But Western nations, which in the past did nothing about Iran’s statements and
    actions regarding nuclearization, have recently come to understand that we are
    facing a decisive moment of truth. Now the Canadians, led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, apparently understand better
    than anyone the Iranian threat, leading them to take this step, paving the way for other countries. Does this mean that Israel should abandon the option of
    attacking Iran? Of course not. But if major countries of the world adopt
    Canada’s policy on Iran, Israel might have some reason to reconsider if the world acts, not only for the sake of Israel, but mainly for its own sake, and in spite of the foreign policies of Russia, China and North Korea.

  • roger

    My three best books on the region are ‘The seat of Pilate’, ‘Terror out of Zion’ and ‘Home of faded splendour’, shows the complications.

    • roger

      I meant ‘fadeless splendour’ of course

  • David Lindsay

    It is not often that I can find much good to say about Ken Clarke. But his appointment to the National Security Council is not only welcome, it is also very telling. Like Sir Malcolm Rifkind, Sir Peter Tapsell, Edward Leigh, John Baron and others, Clarke advanced a classically Tory case against the starry-eyed drivel advanced by supporters of an invasion of Iraq.

    Ten years on, he has been vindicated in full. The same people, now with even less excuse for their naïveté, seek to bounce us into participating in the destruction of the world’s second-oldest civilisation, a state with reserved parliamentary representation for its ancient Christian minorities, merely on the orders of a state founded by anti-British Marxist terrorists within the lifetime of Ken Clarke, terrorists and their successors with an altogether different approach towards the Christian aborigines in their midst.

    With the departure of many New Labour figures to be replaced with “classic Labour” ones who took advantage of the refusal of the Blairy Boys to sully themselves with the hard work of Opposition, the Parliamentary Labour Party would now be pretty much unanimous in its resistance to any war against Iran; a vote on such a thing might usefully smoke out any diehards who could then be deselected. We all know about the Lib Dems.

    And the appointment of Ken Clarke to the National Security Council strongly indicates that even the Conservatives might finally be reverting to their historic scepticism about foreign adventures to make the world anew. Dare we hope that the refusal of their own Westminster Village golden boys and such character’s pointless girlfriends to sully themselves with the hard work of Opposition might create openings for classic Tories in 2015?

    • T. Botham

      Whatever Islam kept of Persian civilization (second oldest? starting when?) is now in jeopardy – or dead – under the ayatollahs. Shame about Zoroastrianism.

      Sectarian “representation” in a talking chamber – an Ottoman idea – is not to be adduced as evidence of a civilized democratic say in government. Actually, in the Middle East, even where government offices have been allocated to to different sects (Lebanon and Iraq) in the name of balance of power, it is a constitutional disaster, an unstable arrangement conducive to perpetual low grade civil war breaking into full-blown insurrection and clan warlordism.
      As usual your befuddled identification of moral politics with what favours Christians – aboriginal indeed! – leads the discussion off-road into a midden.

      • David Lindsay

        Every sentence of this is just gibberish. No wonder that you like Murray so much. But he is consciously lying, as Leo Strauss teaches him that he has a duty to do to the common herd. Meaning you.

        If I started correcting this, then I might never be able to stop. But there is also a reserved Zoroastrian seat in the Iranian Parliament. Oh, and Iran was never part of the Ottoman Empire. And … no, I mustn’t.

        And see here, now even reported in the pages of the Telavivagraph, so serious has the situation become – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9529123/Vatican-official-says-Israel-fostering-intolerance-of-Christianity.html.

        No way to treat a country’s citizens generally. And no way to treat her aboriginal people, who converted to Christianity when the Roman Empire did, and who adopted the use of Arabic at the time of the Islamic Conquest, but who have been there from everlasting.

        Although for how much longer, in view of quite so determined a campaign to do to the ones in Palestine (their word for their country) what has been done to the ones in Iraq and what is proposed for the ones in Syria, all loudly cheered on by the neocons, who hate many, many things, but who hate nothing, but nothing, more than Christianity?

        • Simon

          Your last sentence “Whereas it has never, ever been an entirely Jewish one” totally wrong, Jerusalem was an entirely Jewish city long before it was fostered by the crusaders, shocking ignorance on your behalf

    • Baltiron

      The Christian and Jewish representatives may only speak on matters that concern their own religions and have little or no political influence. Can you spell hostage?

      • David Lindsay

        Who says that they have “little or no political influence”? Can you spell “dupe”?

        And even that would be better than what we have done to the ones in Iraq, what the likes of Murray want us to do to the ones in Syria, and what has been done to the ones in Palestine.

        In Lebanon, where the President and half of the MPs have to be Christians, the Christians now pray publicly for Hezbollah, seeing it as their own last line of defence. They have seen what has happened to the brethren further south. They live with the bombardment from further south of the state in which the President and half of the MPs have to be Christians.

        • Baltiron

          I can spell dupe: “David Lindsay”.

          No serious observer thinks they have influence. They can’t vote on things that doesn’t directly concern their minority.

          The Christians of Southern Lebanon are very well aware that it’s Hezbollah that persecutes and throws them out of their own country.

  • John

    I find it difficult to take the Dutch Foreign Minister seriously on the Middle East because:
    1. He has a home in Haifa
    2. His wife is an Israeli
    3. His sister lives in Ashkelon
    4. He compares ties with Israel to the Dutch “bond with Nato”
    5. One of his first actions as Foreign Minister was to attempt to cut off funding to the pro-Palestinian website Electronic Intifada
    6. He claims he isn’t biased on the Israel/Palestine conflict.
    Pull the other one

    • T. Botham

      Why is the Dutch government funding the Electronic Intifada?

      Bias?
      No matter how richly the Palestinian cause is draped in international “legal” pronouncements and fraudulent national historical narratives – it is still naked aggression against Jews.
      But for the current (but not necessarily permanent) power superiority, Israel would not exist.
      Every decent thinking informed person should be biased against the formation of yet another Arab/Muslim tribal despotism.
      And for those who agree with the “Palestinians” about Jews and Israel, why pretend that the Palestinians want a negotiated two state solution and not the end of Israel? The demonizing of Jews – with the UN being the main mouthpiece for it – has always been the precursor to violence against them. It always arrives at the point where “Jew” is a sufficient expression of inhuman (sub-human) evil to establish its own rationale for the necessity of cruel retribution. The same is happening with “Israeli” and “Zionist.” (See some comments here.)
      A house in Haifa? A Jewish wife? A sister in Ashkelon? Did you forget to mention the Dutch Foreign Minister’s name? Jewish, ja? We know what that means. Bias. That is to say he wants to dominate and abuse non-Jews.
      Someone has already pulled both your legs. Though without a leg to stand on, you can preserve your jackboots’ shine.

    • AY

      what you practically say is “it is difficult to take.. seriously on the Middle East” anyone who is married to a Jew or lives in Haifa or Ashkelon.

      are you so sure Spectator readers are all such automatic anti-Semites?

      well done Dutch FM, time has come to act against terror in Europe, and in Israel.

      and there are plenty of work here, political class in the UK is heavily infiltrated by jihadi stooges such as:

      1) “lord” ahmed, The Fuhrer Of Ten Thousand Bearded Mugs
      2) sayyeda warsi, native-born immigrant, lumpen baroness, and sharia adviser
      3) gorgeous indefatigable george, undercover imam, chaotic demagogue, official iranian agent and terror financier

      national shame, team GB.
      (but their end is near.)

      anyway tomorrow I buy Canadian ice wine, Dutch beer and British pork steaks, and have political BBQ.
      the first toast – for Turning The Tide.

  • Simon

    Wouldn’t bother arguing with YouWhat…he has bought the lie. It is in his soul, he just hates Israel and always will, how can you argue with a person who does not accept historical fact ?. You can’t ..you could show him a blue piece of paper he will insist it is red. I have met people like him before its like a disease, ingrained Israel hatred. He actually believes Jews “stole” land from Palestinians, forgetting that there has always been a Jewish population there long before 1948. He actually believes “Millions of Palestinians” were displaced from there! Ha I actually started laughing…there were never Millions there to begin with, the land was rather sparse and underpopulated for centuries especially under ottoman rule. He probably believes Jesus was a Palestinian, also that Jews have no historical claim to the land..I think he has already made some absurd remark about Europeans being Jews or something along those lines DNA blah blah rubbish. Let me guess King David was a Palestinian Moses and Joshua also not to mention Solomon, Hezekiah and Josiah…the Maccabees were a Palestinian Muslim dynasty. Jerusalem was discovered by Mohammed and is an Islamic city going back thousands of years with no Jewish connection whatsoever…etc etc you get my drift….Ignore the fool

    • roger

      Jews should of course be able to buy land and live in the area where their ancestors were driven out of but the 10th legion so long ago, jews have been going back for centuries, but any group having a religiously defined state anywhere is wrong. Belief is an individual characteristic (though families usually impose it on children before they are adults when they should be free to believe what they will) not the characteristic of any state.
      The area has a complex history, much of it shameful and some of it great, just ‘get over it’.

  • Nicholas

    Mark well the moral relativism of the left that can disregard or excuse the most barbaric, uncivilised treatment of human beings if that does not fit within their matrix of “good” and “bad” causes. The howls of outrage against Israel and the deafening silence on Iran and Islamic terror and oppression tell you everything you need to know about them. They are dishonourable people who distort and manipulate truth into dishonesty. Every single one of them, crowing from the top of their moral dung heap.

    • http://www.facebook.com/amergin.selby Amergin Selby

      There you go again, Nicholas the great generaliser, who knows just what I am and what I am thinking. So if I said that Islam is a foul religion, devised by a con artist,, that the Koran is a literary disaster and if Allah wrote it he would fail his GCSE O levels. It is full of inaccuracies and contradictions badly written and jumbled but given its origins in the spoken word and unreliable memories of men that is not surprising.. Iran is a disgusting example of mindless interpretation of that squalid book, it is the perverted realisation of a dream of a maniac called Ayatollah Khomeni, it is a stain on humanity and should not be allowed to exist. It threatens us all.
      Mind you I am a leftie and not allowed such opinions or so you believe.
      Have I read the Koran. Well yes and most of the Bible but then you see I am an atheist but will only attack what I know personally and not what others tell me..

  • Malfleur

    The unholy alliance of the left and islamic terrorism, Nicholas sums it up: “The alliance of the British bien pensant left with Islamic extremism and
    terror and their ability to excuse it whilst condemning Israel is one
    where logic and reason does not enter”.

    Vote left – vote islamic terror.

  • Nicholas

    Kick their diplomats out. Send them a message. Then send them some cruise missiles and bunker busters. Anyone who has a word to say in support of this disgusting regime that hangs young homosexual men publically from cranes is sick.

    • John Thomas

      You see, Nicholas, from the comments here: in our society any organisation that hates Israel/Jews – like Hezbollah or Iran – will always be accepted and never ostracised … oh, but homosexual-persecutors … well, that’s different, might cause “liberals” to hesitate a bit …

      • mightymark

        Not sure it does – nor rape either by all accounts!

  • edlancey

    It defies belief that someone with her connections to shady Islamic organisations is in such a senior position in the foreign office.

  • coventrian

    1. Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation
    2. When Canada cuts off diplomatic relations with a country, how can they tell?

  • AY

    Canadians display exemplary tactics and strategy in dealing with jihadi gargage.
    will saudi arabia be the next?
    I foresee increase of immigration of well-educated West-loving people to Canada.

    separation of civilzed world from barbarism is unstoppable, and everyone will eventually be forced to take sides.

  • victor67

    Hezbullah is no threat to the EU. It was set up as an armed resistance group to the Israeli occupation of their homeland. Some might even call them freedom fighters. Their religious doctrine and affiliation is irelevant.
    I also not you don’t label the Gulf states as terrorists although them arming the rebels is exacerbating the blood shed. One mans terrorist you no.

    • Alcuin

      Hezbollah was behind the Bulgarian bus bombing. Their Jew hatred is such that they will seek “Jewish” targets anywhere, and particularly where there is a strong Muslim community. There are plenty of these in the EU and the UK, and plenty of “Jewish” targets. Your complacency would encourage more outrages like 7/7.

      • YouWhat

        Maybe if “Jews” actually paid Palestinians compensation when they steal Land, bulldoze homes and commit crimes, they wouldn’t be hated so much. Obeying international law, like allowing the displaced to return to their homes, would help too. But for some reason they prefer to keep behaving like despot racist supremacists. They reap a lot less than they sow.

        • Andy Gill

          Erm … The Palestinians should pay Jews compensation for the hundreds of terrorist atrocities they have committed, and the thousands of rockets they have launched on civilian towns in Israel. And while were on the topic perhaps the Arab states should compensate the 800,000 Jewish refugees who were expelled from Arab lands, and their land and property stolen. You know it makes sense.

          • YouWhat

            There are MILLIONS of Palestinians that were displaced by the Israelis and now live in refugee camps or are dead. Meanhile you whine for compensation for something that allegedly happened to your grandparents. HYPOCRITES!

            • Ron Todd

              Many parts of the middle East had Jewish populations that have now been largely displaced by Muslims, either driven out or forced to convert. Once a Muslim population gets to a certain size it wants to get rid of any other religious groups. This is an on-going process look at Keyna Sudan and Nigeria. Mali is possibly an indication of the next step where more militant Muslims start ousting moderate Muslims. Lybia is an example of Muslims attacking other Muslims for acial rather that religious reasons.

              • YouWhat

                Funnily enoughIran has a large Jewish population, so you can’t blame them for “evictions”. In any case, Israel still remains an unethical colony of violent land thieves who hold the world record for UN resolutions and habitually ignore basic ethics and international law. I’m getting quite tired of their eternal hatemongering through supposedly western publications.

                • Ron Todd

                  Wasn’t aware that I had blamed Iran for anything. But the population of Iran is now about 98% Muslim with Jews Christians and Zoroastarians making up the remaining 2%. I am sure that all countries as seen by other countries have ethical failings, but some a clearly worse than others and in general Muslim countries (admittedly by western standards which given more space and time I would argue are superior) do tend to be in the worse category.

                • roger

                  An ‘islamic republic’ or a ‘jewish state’ are wrong headed constructs, faith ( or humanism etc.)should be for individuals not countries.

                • Ron Todd

                  Where the rulers claim to run a state according to the principles of a particular religion and when the majority of the people also follow that religion I think it is reasonable to use that religion as a short hand description of the type of state that it is.

                • AY

                  interesting question.
                  when talking about “Jews”, the Ashkenazi ethnicity is meant first-foremost.

                  reasons for that are historical – mostly the origin of the intellectual and business elite of modern Israel and of influential diaspora abroad.

                  prevailing philosophy of Judasim eventually became a “progressive” framework – where the purpose of man’s life is derived as “to correct the world”, and correspondingly, being “the chosen people” means to be chosen for generating more meaning, tolerance and order, – good work ethics, discovering useful things, looking for wisdom rather than power, etc.

                  not domination over other people, by means of crude force, threats and deception.

                  people sharing these views, of different origins and at different grades of religiousity, – are forming a synthetic ethnos in anthropological sense as well, as being close together in work and life, means more intermarrying.

                  so Jews might be viewed both as religion and ethnicity.
                  where the role of religion becomes more and more nominal.

                  with isalm it is different because internal divisions are much stronger – the religion itself, and interpretations, are more violent.
                  islam practically is user manual for applying violence.
                  (there are no analogy of sunni-shia wars in judaism – more exactly, last such wars were somewhere in BC.)

                  but generally speaking, islamic “umma” also has potential to become genetically powered.
                  george galloway’s youngest wife is Indonesian, AFAIR.

                • Baltiron

                  .. and the Jewish minority in Iran has decreased from 100,000 to a mere 10,000. That’s how tolerant your thugs are.

            • Andy Gill

              Sorry, but you don’t know what you are talking about. Only about 450,000 Palestinians were displaced, which is substantially fewer than the number of Jews. The difference is that Israel took its refugees in and gave them citizenship, while the Arabs kept the Palestinians in camps to use as a bargaining chip. Try reading some history.

              • roger

                history is the past, get over it.

                • Baltiron

                  You might say that to the PLO.

                  But that’s only the thing sheeple like you tell the Jooos.

              • Augustus

                Quite right! there were 856,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Around 600,000 immigrated to Israel
                while another 200,000 found refuge in the U.S., Canada and Europe. Descendants
                of Jewish refugees from Arab countries today constitute around half of the
                Israeli population. But the Arab world has neglected Palestinian refugees and has used them as a tool to
                defame Israel, while Israel, which was then a small country, was able to absorb
                Jewish refugees from Arab countries and turn them into productive citizens. And Israel
                is determined to seek justice for Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

        • AY

          Israel predates arabs in palestine, for at least 2K years.
          before state of Israel, territories were under ottoman turks, arabs never had state there.

          pakistani and bangladeshi tribes coming to UK, capturing lands with saudi “charity” money – that is real land grab and terror-sponsored colonization.
          whining about “palestinians” is a smokescreen.

          for now the only “compensation” muslims/arabs get for terrorism, is wars, misery and opprobrium. and deservedly so.
          you want destruction of Israel – try it.
          but don’t be surprised when it doesn’t go as planned.

          • coventrian

            ‘pakistani and bangladeshi tribes coming to UK, capturing lands with saudi “charity” money – that is real land grab and terror-sponsored colonization.’

            What a squalid little racist you are. Are you typical of Zionists, ore are you just a despicable one-off?

            • AY

              yes I reckon that en masse transfer of savage uneducated population from rural areas of Indostan is not beneficial for Britain.

              could you explain why the corresponding cultural practices are good – like honour killings, forced, and first cousin marriages, rape of under-aged white girls, political assasinations, electoral fraud, islamic suicide terrorism, mob violence, islamization, support of foreign terror groups etc.

              BTW switching to ad hominem is a sign of lost dispute.

              and no, I don’t think everyone in the UK follows narrative of Guardian/BBC defining Zionism as something negative.
              Zionism is national liberation movement, as many others.

              • coventrian

                I see you don’t deny that you are a racist.

                • YA

                  I believe
                  in primacy of individual rights over collective rights.
                  in sepration of powers, and separation of state and religion.
                  in traditions of honesty and rationality
                  that minorities and vulnerables in civil society should be protected
                  that basis of civil society is people (not state, not religion)

                  it just has happened, due to accumulated effects of coupling of cultural and biological evolution, that some groups of people – “nations” – are so obviously far ahead in respect to these characteristics, than the others.

                  if to admit that simple truth is “racist” in your book, I couldn’t care less.

                • coventrian

                  biological evolution – some groups of people – ar ahead in respect to these characteristics

                  Like the ‘Aryans’ by any chance

                • AY

                  again sticking labels instead of thinking.

                  yes evolution dear.
                  culture is shaped by brain is shaped by evolution.

                  so you reckon, if you replace Japanese in Japan (average IQ 115), with subsaharan africans (average IQ 65) – and still you will have the same Japan? with all its technological wonders and civil order?

                  if you are so big lover of cultural equality, – then you are probably writing from sierra leone, where armed gangs rule, 80% of women were raped, beaches are used as toilets, and small children are killed for ritual cannibalism.

                  but even for them, there is hope.
                  people will be able to help themselves and the others, only basing on what they really are.
                  not basing on politically correct myths, not religion, not entitlement demagoguery, and not on violent revenge ideologies.
                  collaboration and mutual respect of individual freedoms and rights, and admitting differences, – are not exclusive.
                  one just shouldn’t deny the truth that is in front of you.

                • coventrian

                  Wow you’re not just a racist, you’re a Scientific Racist. Just like the Nazis.

                  As you are clearly a member of the master race, can you explain why average IQ in Britain has increased over the last 100 years during a period of mass immigration from the countries you view as inferior?

                • AY

                  if you want to argue, stop clownage.
                  this is public debate – insults, labels and threats don’t count.
                  they act against you.

                  bring the data on IQ, criminality, honour killings, underage sex, first cousin marriages, FGM, polygamy – in rural pakistan, bangladesh, somalia on the one side, and on native English on the other, and let us compare.

                • coventrian

                  More racism, from a racist.

                • Baltiron

                  More probably the Arabs.

                • coventrian

                  Racist

                • Baltiron

                  That’s rich, coming from a Jew hater with Nazi tendencies.

                • coventrian

                  I see Arab-hating racists have only one response.

                • Baltiron

                  When will Nazis stop blaming the Jews for the Holocaust?

                • coventrian

                  Ask them, they’re your mates after all. You share the same racist ideology.

                • Baltiron

                  I’m asking you, SS-wannabee.

                • coventrian

                  Unlike you, I don’t mix with Nazis and racists. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.”

                • Baltiron

                  History on its head. You are the one who mixes with nazis, because Nazis support Hezbullah. The Nazis and the Palestinians are old allies, the Palestinian leader spent WWII in Berlin and was a high WaffenSS-functionary.

                  We move in different social spheres indeed, Nazi scum.

                • coventrian

                  I think you’ll find the The Stern Gang proposed an alliance with the Nazis. Their leader Yitzhak Shamir later became Israeli Prime Minister.

                  http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/death-of-israels-pro-nazi-prime.html

                  History on its head indeed!

                • Baltiron

                  A minority in the Stern Gang suggested it, yes. But the Nazis were already taken by the Palestinians. There’s plenty of evidence on the net, you can search youtube for “Mufti” and Hitler and watch the films yourself. Otherwise a good, if considerably sanitized, write-up is here:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini

                • coventrian

                  If it was a minority of the Stern Gang who wanted an alliance with the Nazis, why did they go ahead and try to get it on several occasions? I think you’re making that one up. How do you feel about Israel having a Nazi sympathizer as its Prime Minister?

                • Baltiron

                  The minority tried once, not many times. Shamir was not a Nazi sympathizer unlike the organizations PLO, Hamas and Hezbullah who still cooperate with European Nazis and even throw Nazi salutes on important occasions to mimic their master and idol. The organizations you favour was supported by the infamous Kampfgruppe Adolf Hitler which operated on the West Bank prior to 1967.

                  To return to the PLO’s idol, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, he not only spent the war in Berlin, he was also in charge of Nazi propaganda to the Middle East, helped Himmler organize a WaffenSS division of Bosnian muslims and did his best to further the Holocaust. He was indicted at the Nürnberg trials as a war criminal, and his German liason testified that he commuted to Auschwitz on a weekly basis to encourage the killers.

                • coventrian

                  Are you aware the Anwar Sadat was a Nazi sympathiser and PLO Chairman Mahmoud Abbas a Holocaust denier?

                • Baltiron

                  History on its head. You are the one who mixes with nazis, because Nazis support Hezbullah. The Nazis and the Palestinians are old allies, the Palestinian leader spent WWII in Berlin and was a high WaffenSS-functionary.

                  We move in different social spheres indeed, Nazi scum.

                • coventrian

                  Unlike you, I don’t mix with Nazis and racists. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.”

                • coventrian

                  biological evolution – some groups of people – ar ahead in respect to these characteristics

                  Like the ‘Aryans’ by any chance

                • Ron Todd

                  I would add rule of law with the same laws applied equally to all

                • AY

                  100%

              • YouWhat

                Zionism is a racist supremacist doctrine akin to nazism with parallel aims: A racial Heimatland for God’s chosen people with a serf underclass of Untermenschen. Google ” Rabbi Ovadia Yosef ” for more info.

                • AY

                  that is obvious distortion.
                  a Zionist – is the one who only says that Israel is home for Jewish people, the same way as Italy is home for Italians and saudi arabia for arabs.

                  BTW saudi arabia forbids Jews on its territory and non-Muslims in their “holy” cities. whereas plenty of arabs live in Israel.

                  on the question of supremacism – just try to think why is there 22 arab states and 50+ muslim states, and only one Jewish state. how islam and arabs were spread from arabia – was it peaceful?
                  who destroyed and expelled Christians in Hellenic Middle East?
                  who is expansionist, and a supremacist?

                  (oh and that rabbi has the same relation to state policies of Israel, as that archbishop Rowan who-he-is, to the policies of #10.)

                  Guardian/BBC propaganda make so funny clowns.

                • YouWhat

                  More Hasbara Cobblers. Like I said, Israel likes to keep a few arabs as a serf underclass. They are hated like christians. Jews were offered all manner of places for homelands, indeed they could easily buy themselves a country. But no, they chose to violently displace the indigenpus population from a place they were not wanted in the first place, against the the will of the world. Live by the sword, die by the sword, so quit whining and hatemongering and undermining western governments. I notice you are calling me a “lefty”. You’ll find that most people who have looked into Zionism and it’s methods find you abhorrent, it’s nothing to do with pathetic L/R tribalism.

                • AY

                  what an incoherent gobbelgook and labels again.

                  if Jews try to separate from arabs they are racist.
                  if Jews try to co-exist with them they are racist again.

                  Israel is part of the West.
                  by what means Israel and Jews “undermine” the West – by all their technical innovations, medical wonders, patents and Nobel prizes?

                  the ones who undermine West, – are free riders infiltrating from thirld world, and islamic colonizers, who are really evil.

                • YouWhat

                  ??? Jews don’t try to coexist with arabs! Not beyond using a few of them to do their dirty work anyway.

            • YouWhat

              +10 ! The hypocrisy of zionists knows no bounds. Zionism=racism by definition

              • AY

                spare these mediocre declarations for your “behead in the name of islam” demos.

                do you have some arguments?
                could you answer the question that was posed?
                well obviously you don’t.

                so I will repeat – there are no valuable practices imported to the West from these retarded third world cultures.
                if I will want to prepare tikka-masala, it is enough to have a cook-book.
                if I will want to see exotic women in hijabs and aggressive men in pyjamas, I can go to pakistan on vacation.
                if I will want to see lions I can go to zoo.
                I just don’t need all that stuff to be forced on me without asking, and without limits, and to transform the place where I live into chaotic violent mess.

                • YouWhat

                  Spoken like a true racist supremacist. It’s pretty obvious you see the people of ANY culture, including us westerners, as below you.

                • AY

                  ???
                  I only judge people, and cultures, by merit.

                  no you are not “westerner”, just brainwashed relativist with anti-Semitic obsessoins. not knowing facts, incapable of logics.

          • YouWhat

            Hasbara Drivel! If you look at the DNA of most europeans they have some middle eastern DNA. So “Israel” could “belong” to anyone. It is in fact the Romans who ruled it the longest so if anything it belongs to Italy. It’s childishly ludicrous to try to claim land on the basis of what happened thousands of years ago. Anybody could claim hundreds of places. Meanwhile though you better GTF out of your bedsit because it’s mine.

            • AY

              so you just admitted that arab claim to Palestine is not more valid than that of Jews.

              then, how about “stolen land” – is it just your delirium, or anti-Semitism is so sacred, it overrides every other argument.

              “It’s childishly ludicrous to try to claim land on the basis of what happened thousands of years ago”
              – but if that is about hundreds years, it is seemingly OK. why?

              and what that was about DNA, – random noise?
              who are these “most europeans with middle-eastern DNA”?
              can you provide some referernce, explanation?

              • YouWhat

                The people inhabiting Palestine were recently evicted by zionists in the last 100+ years, millions are alive. You prove that they have a claim by jews claiming reparations for what Germans allegedly did to even their Grandparents. They have a claim by your own standards. But we know that Zionists are racist supremacists by definition (and by what it says in the Talmud) with delusions of superiority.

                • AY

                  well you know what you know, I know how it is.

                  history of modern Israel is not in any respect more violent than history of modern pakistan. and started at the same time.
                  would you argue in favour of all that millions of hindu refugees – coming back to pakistan, to redeem stolen lands?

                  and yes if you are in the train and want to take a seat – a seat is yours if you were first. Jews were first in Palestine, but they don’t deny right for peaceful neighbours to live nearby.

                  Talmud as any ancient religious book says lot of nonsense, which has no relation whatsoever to the character and policy of secular state of Israel.
                  but you as classic anti-Semite, try project ideology of Jewish fundamentalist sect (which is the tiny group, in Israel) – on the whole state. what a pathetic demagogue.

                • YouWhat

                  Funnily enough, many Jews like the very popular Rabbi Ovadia Yosef do proclaim that “Gentiles are here to serve the needs of the Jews like donkeys”. Jews were not “first” in Palestine, what a proposterous claim! The first humans there were “first” and they certainly weren’t Jews. And you better watch your libelling ass, accusing people of racism, you lying zionist hypocrite.

                • AY

                  arcaheological evidence points at Hebrews as the most ancient ethnic group who lived there, among all peoples living now.
                  the same as Celts in Scotland and Wales, Japanese in Japan.

                  99%
                  of Israeils don’t care what this idiot rabbi might say (even if you
                  didn’t make it up), – and if one starts citing koranic passges and
                  islamic hate preachers of iran and hamas, one can easily find calls to
                  genocide. and these mad clerics have real power and arms in their hands,
                  and a record of terror and oppression of their own people.

                  I am satisfied that you start threatening and insulting again – that is good sign, you are absolutely lost.
                  time to think about apostasy dear, – you can’t make ends meet.

                • Baltiron

                  “allegedly”. So we’re heading Holocaust denial territory now. Why am I not surprised?

                  The Arabs of Palestine were allied to Hitler and their leader participated in the Holocaust.

            • Baron

              youwhat, quite right, let’s forget history, look at the present.

              what you, the others batting for you, can do is what Baron has suggested over and over to others of your school of thought.

              first, go to Israel, stand at any public space, shout, ‘down with Netanyahu, Netyanahu is a traitor’. After the Israelis administer an aspirin, calm you down, proceed to Lebanon, or any Hezbullah controlled teritorry will do, stand at a public space, shout ‘down with Hezbullah, Hezbullah are traitors’. If you come back, sir, we’ll talk.

              what slices it for Baron is this, Israel is a democracy, they hold elections regularly, have parties that support the cause of the Palestinians, few of their memebrs get elected to the Knesset…., as every other democracy, they ain’t prefect, make mistakes, but as every other democracy they too have mechanisms for correcting what they’ve done wrong.

              When the other lot get anywhere near a construct similar to what the Israelis have, Baron may take a different take on issues such as the land grab.

              You follow?

        • Nicholas

          Bollocks. Point me to the video where Israeli terrorists behead an innocent and helpless victim. Point me to the third party capital city where Israeli terrorists have murdered thousands of innocent people. You are an apologist for terror and you sicken me.

          • YouWhat

            Go look on youtube for the vids of ex-IDF admitting their atrocities. You support a blatantly racist despot colony of violent supremacist religious fanatics and you call me sick?

            • Nicholas

              Oh, here we go, Someone dares to disagree with your facile anti-semitic socialist checklist and out come the usual epithets of denouncement. I don’t support anything. I just detest terrorism and those who apologise for it, like you. Idiots who practice a form of moral relativism which is practically deranged but which somehow manages to con a lot of other facile and very unattractive idiots into joining their terror apologist mobs. I notice your description, which perfectly fits Iran, is not directed there. Yes, I call you sick. You are.

      • victor67

        Evidence please. Just because Bibi said it is true does not make it a fact. As with the murder of Iranian nuclear scientists assumptions don’t count.
        Bibi and Barak are on crusade to go to war with Iran and stooges like Murray are doing their cheerleading.
        Hezbullah do not hate jews per se. It is due to the terror inflicted on there country over the years by the Zionist regime and in solidarity with their brothers in Palestine.
        Murray and other pro Israeli comentators present Hamas and Hezbullah as unthinking bigots. They are not. They are both authentic resistance movements whatever one may think of their Islamism.

        • AY

          “Hezbullah do not hate jews per se.”

          could you please tell who samir kuntar is, and for which glorious deeds he is “great hero” of lebanese hezbolla.
          the treasure of the nation.

          could you please name at least one deliberate action of IDF against civilians comparable with kuntar case.

          could you please name at least one operation of IDF in lebanon or gaza that wasn’t in response to cross-border terrorism.

          no, hamas and hezbolla are not “unthinking bigots” – but de facto iranian military proxies threatening Israel with genocide.

          on solidarity with “brothers in Palestine” – could you please tell if Jews have any presence or political rights in any of the 22 arab countries? (there are none, they were all cleansed, expelled).
          in Israel, about 18% of citizens are arabs, that includes political representation by parties in Israeli Knesset.
          just looking to facts, one can easy see who is hateful and who is tolerant.

          by writing this uneducated nonsense, you make disservice to the very cause [yes – the cause of jihadi cannibals] that you want to support – so please write more, enemy’s lies are to be exposed.

          • victor67

            Cast lead targeting the Police and hospitals and 1 million cluster bombs in the last days of Lebanon 2006. Hardly the actions of a Liberal democracy.
            Uneducated nonsense. It depends what narrative you follow The zionist western mythology or the truth emerging over the last 30 years.
            and your thoughts on deir yassin Quiba and Baruch Goldstein? Many examples of zionist inspired savagery.
            Hezbullah and Hamas are both in part creations of Israel. They are not the problem but the symptom of it.

            • AY

              deir yassin was terror nest, and it was 1948, – Jewish self-defense militias were battling arab gangs, there wasn’t IDF that time.

              yes during “cast lead” IDF targeted hamas “police” – they were enemy forces.
              hamas is responsible for 100+ suicide bombings of buses, hotels and discoteques, 7/7 style, as well countless killings of unarmed Israelis by shooting and indiscriminate rocket attacks, perpetutaed for years.

              Baruch Goldstein was not on-duty IDF serviceman, he acted alone, – it wasn’t IDF operation, and he is NOT a national hero in Israel. I am a Zionist and I condemn his attack. do you condemn pre-planned murder committed by samir kuntar? do you condemn pre-planned suicide bombings of hamas?

              truth doesn’t depend on narratives – hezbolla and hamas exist and kill, simply due to sponsors of terror, mostly syria and iran.

              • Nicholas

                No point arguing with them. It is like arguing with SA thugs who are smashing Jewish shop windows. They gravitate to terrorists and then seek to justify their murders because they hate Israel. The alliance of the British bien pensant left with Islamic extremism and terror and their ability to excuse it whilst condemning Israel is one where logic and reason does not enter.

                • AY

                  they are most likely recent poor female converts to islam spending time at keyboard, confirming newly acquired zealotry.

                  hey gals, – still dreaming of wearing mini-skirts, drinking Muscat? :)

            • Nicholas

              Well you apparently are following the national socialist cum modern leftofascist narrative which somehow manages to excuse terror, the persecution and murder of homosexuals and the oppression of women in favour of thinly veiled anti-semitism.

              • victor67

                Yawn Yawn not the nazi comparison again. Israel demonized the PLO and Fatah and promoted Hamas in the occupied territories for years up until Oslo. Its the old colonial tactic of divide and rule.
                No matter how enlightened Israeli society may be in comparison to the arab world it cannot cover up its dirty little occupation of Palestine and the oppression and brutality that is required to maintain it.

                • AY

                  “dirty little occupation”
                  LOL
                  you obviously don’t believe even for a minute yourself, in seriousness of the nonsense you try to preach.

                  about “divide and rule” – look at syria, libya, iraq – who and when “divided” shia and sunni muslims, different tribes and clans killing each other in ME in dozens of thousands and for dozens of years? again evil Zionists are guilty, obviously.

                  and you know what – these orks, are all agree just on that.
                  drawing “proof” of “Israeli weapons used”, from either enemy side, etc.

                  so you can rejoice – in syria, Zionists kill Zionists for the sake of Zionists.

                • Nicholas

                  I used the term national socialist in the sense of New Labour – authoritarian socialism bordering on fascism and the partisan misuse of nationalism by the left. Israel’s actions, given the context of centuries of persecution and massacre of Jewish peoples and the fact that from day one they were being attacked by neighbouring Arab nations who have never relinquished the hosting and export of terrorist organisations that deny their right to exist, is perfectly understandable. When Palestine and its supporters begin acting in a civilised way, renounce terror and embrace truth and reconciliation then the situation might improve. In the meantime I wish Israel well.

                • Augustus

                  It is worth reminding people like you that no U.N. decision, in the past or the future, can contradict the right to
                  sovereignty in the western part of the Land of Israel, as stated in the “Mandate
                  for Palestine” document that was unanimously approved by the League of Nations.
                  Maintaining proper proportionality was achieved by giving full political rights
                  to Arabs in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq In 1946, Jordan was established on 77
                  percent of the territory allocated to the Jews in 1920. And in that document, which recognized the existing right of the Jewish people to be sovereign in their own land, no mention was made of the political rights of Arabs.

              • Baltiron

                Don’t forget to add racist, it practically oozes out of his text.

            • Baltiron

              The problem dates back to the Islamic conquest, not 1948. Hezbullah and Hamas are part of a mind set that thinks the entire earth belongs to them.

      • coventrian

        ‘Hezbollah was behind the Bulgarian bus bombing’

        Got any evidence for that? Thought not.

        • Baltiron

          Their own admission? I guess it doesn’t count for its shills.

          • coventrian

            Liar

            • Baltiron

              More projection from a racist liar.

    • Nicholas

      Freedom fighters? Yeah, right. See my post above you sicko.

      • YouWhat

        People who defend their own land are usually called that, like Partisans, Resistance, Insurgents, etc. Where did you come from, “Nicholas” and AY?

        • AY

          that is not “their land”, – see above.

          what they “defend” is their rights for genocide, what they practice is terrorism.

          and BTW with this ideology, “freedom fighters” are presently murdering each other in droves, over all middle east. assad’s troops just yesterday bombed and attacked “palestinian refugee camps” in damascus.
          what would they do to Jews if they do it to each other.
          have you heard about Jews killing Jews in hundreds, somewhere?

          • YouWhat

            Now you mention it, Jews do sell each other out but let others do the killing. Zionism thrives on hatred, including hatred of Jews themselves. Where would you be without it?

            • AY

              what a strange fantasy. I only said that Jews are less violent to each other, than their opponents to each other, – which is confirmed by facts.

              and, you know why – that was maybe not Hebrew invention but they took in on board long ago, since Old Testament – The Golden Rule.

              the West is essentially a synthesis of rationality (Greek tradition), + Golden Rule (Judaism) + Universalism (Christianity).
              however in present days, West became secular, and that is correct. religions are not taken seriously, treated as intellectual heritage, fairytales, antiques.

              in contrast, what you de-facto trying to defend (iran, hamas etc.) – is archaic mordor based on ignorant, literally inerpreted tribal mythology, jungle-rule moral, and endless divisions.

        • Nicholas

          That depends very much on your definition of “defending” your own land. I would defend England by legitimately fighting the armed forces of an invader on our soil. Even were the members of those armed forces to fall into my hands as prisoners I would not murder them because I am civilised and understand the rules of warfare. I would then be a freedom fighter with honour. I would not defend England by going to another country that had nothing to do with it and murdering scores of innocent civilians there. I would not defend England by beheading prisoners in a most cruel and disgusting way and showing a video of it. I would not defend England by throwing helpless, unarmed Englishmen who disagreed with me out of upstairs windows. That is degenerate barbarism and terrorism and anyone who supports that or attempts to justify it is an apologist for terror. If you can’t see the differ . . . whoa! You can’t or won’t see the difference so no point discussing it further with you. Goodbye.

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