Coffee House The Spectator Podcasts

The View from 22 — Unionist gold and the coalition’s new economic strategy

9 August 2012

8:30 AM

9 August 2012

8:30 AM

Have Alex Salmond’s hopes for Scottish independence died, thanks to the Olympics? In this week’s cover feature, Iain Martin writes that the national pride and spiritual unification emanating from the 2012 games have finished off the SNP’s hopes of a break from the union. On this week’s View from 22 podcast, Iain recounts when he first realised Salmond had a serious problem:

I was sitting on Friday and Saturday on the shore of Loch Fyne in the Highlands watching Team GB do these extraordinary things. I felt a wonderful feeling of togetherness and it seemed to me that it was the perfect riposte to narrow nationalism and the peevish attitude of Salmond and the nationalists. Salmond knew when the Olympics started this was going to be a problem for him.

James Forsyth also discusses his political column on the changing times within the Tory party, following this week’s worsening of coalition relations. In particular, he examines what the coalition will do to pass the days now Lords reform is off the agenda:

It’s going to be this big economic bill they are talking about, described as a ‘Jobs Bill’. It’s a recognition they need to turbo charge their economic policy. I think one of the fascinating things is that there will be three parts — one of these is deregulation, which you could crudely call the Tory part. There’s the infrastructure part, which is a genuine coalition project and then there’s the industrial strategy part, which is very much a Vince Cable product.

 It’s absolutely crucial that Cameron knows the next couple of months are his last chance to get the show back on the road. Anything to get economic growth back on the road for 2015 has to happen now.

[Alt-Text]


Clarissa Tan joins to provide a non-British opinion of the Olympics and looks at our strange attitude towards China. Following the Ye Shiwen scandal, the games have shown how much we still distrust her nation. Why so? Listen with the embedded player below to find out why our guests think we are not one with the East. You can also have the latest podcast delivered straight to your machine by subscribing through iTunes. As ever, we’d love to hear what you think, good or bad.

The View from 22 — 9 August 2012. Length 25:51
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Show comments
  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    @”I was sitting on Friday and Saturday on the shore of Loch Fyne in the Highlands watching Team GB do these extraordinary things. I felt a wonderful feeling of togetherness” ..

    LSD has much the same effect and last just as long. In your case it may just have been the Kippers.

    Of all places to get your feeling of togetherness, the Highlands, which suffered the brutality and ethnic clensing during the “Pacification of the Highlands” at the hands of British forces and was turned into a hunting and fishing theme park for the English gentry and Nobility .

    @”narrow nationalism “….. The whole of the Olympics and Benefits Betty’s Jobbylee was about “narrow nationalism ” in this case British nationalism [not forgetting corporate advertising].

    In 2014 when the UK economy is further down the pan and Scots will be voting in the Independence referendum your Olympic induced feeling of togetherness will be nothing but a distant memory. But maybe with Scotland competeing in its own right as a country at the 2014 Commonwealth games Scots will be reflecting on Scots winning gold and have an Independent feeling of Scottish togetherness.

    Maybe it was not the Kippers afterall

  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    @”I was sitting on Friday and Saturday on the shore of Loch Fyne in the Highlands watching Team GB do these extraordinary things. I felt a wonderful feeling of togetherness” ..

    LSD has much the same effect and last just as long. In your case it may just have been the Kippers.

    Of all places to get your feeling of togetherness, the Highlands, which suffered the brutality and ethnic clensing during the “Pacification of the Highlands” at the hands of British forces and was turned into a hunting and fishing theme park for the English gentry and Nobility .

    @”narrow nationalism “….. The whole of the Olympics and Benefits Betty’s Jobbylee was about “narrow nationalism ” in this case British nationalism [not forgetting corporate advertising].

    In 2014 when the UK economy is further down the pan and Scots will be voting in the Independence referendum your Olympic induced feeling of togetherness will be nothing but a distant memory. But maybe with Scotland competeing in its own right as a country at the 2014 Commonwealth games Scots will be reflecting on Scots winning gold and have an Independent feeling of Scottish togetherness.

    Maybe it was not the Kippers afterall

  • uglyfatbloke

    Interesting comments, though some very ill-informed. By and large, Scotland has traditionally put more into the union than it gets out, though not enough to either make Scotland noticeably richer nor England noticeably poorer. One thing is for sure, the tedious PE fest in London will have no real impact on the referendum. The massive sums spent on the games (at the expense of everybody and to the questionable benefit of London) will, indeed, leave a legacy of empty games arenas. I doubt if anyone at Westminster ever thought that the games would derail the gnats, but if they did, perhaps they could get in touch since I have a large collection of hand-made seven-pound notes for sale….

  • Asmodeus

    If the real issue is mass immigration you could have fooled me.It is not one that seems to have effected electoral support for the three main parties all of which have been generally in favour of it.

  • drewzzr

    Reading down the list of comments and views, weaves in and out of the topic, that Scottish Independence has been swept off it’s feet by a few Athletes from the Union winning a medal or three.
    The Olympics, like a war, tends to unite people.
    Yes, they are both elitish etc. but the “cultural diverersion and our Global identity” has all been about putting the UK back into peoples consciences around the world. That was alwaysthe master plan.
    Global re-branding and re marketting of “Cool Britannia”.
    Yoo Hoo, remember us?
    We brought you the TV, the Telephone, the Tank and the flushing Toilet, come back and do business with us please, we have great theatres, football clubs and we can put on a great show you know.
    Also, for all you Oligarchs & Emporors out there, we can find you a nice house in Weybridge, Cheshire or Regents Park, set you up with a football club to play with and help you launder your wealth in a tax eficcient manner.
    Then you might consider “investing” some of your vast wealth on building some more roads and railways we want to build to employ the masses of imigrants we let in and lose every year….
    Old Britain and it’s heart has moved to Scotland. Wales has been bled white and England is a Tory/Labour experimentation in Global new world order super economy.
    Cue, the new “Turbo charged” economy…. That means more money changing hands, a lean state and public sector, a new suit of opportunities for private sector to make a killing as the Tory party sell off what’s left of the family silver.
    Meanwhile, Scotland is hung out to dry with a few cyclists holding a gold medal without a single Velodrome in the whole of Scotland to ride their bikes on.
    Scotland is going to be mugged, shafted and raped by the English if it carries on. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. The Scottish people are a spiritual race, but so were the indigenous people of Australia and America and look what happened to them!

  • drewzzr

    Reading down the list of comments and views, weaves in and out of the topic, that Scottish Independence has been swept off it’s feet by a few Athletes from the Union winning a medal or three.
    The Olympics, like a war, tends to unite people.
    Yes, they are both elitish etc. but the “cultural diverersion and our Global identity” has all been about putting the UK back into peoples consciences around the world. That was alwaysthe master plan.
    Global re-branding and re marketting of “Cool Britannia”.
    Yoo Hoo, remember us?
    We brought you the TV, the Telephone, the Tank and the flushing Toilet, come back and do business with us please, we have great theatres, football clubs and we can put on a great show you know.
    Also, for all you Oligarchs & Emporors out there, we can find you a nice house in Weybridge, Cheshire or Regents Park, set you up with a football club to play with and help you launder your wealth in a tax eficcient manner.
    Then you might consider “investing” some of your vast wealth on building some more roads and railways we want to build to employ the masses of imigrants we let in and lose every year….
    Old Britain and it’s heart has moved to Scotland. Wales has been bled white and England is a Tory/Labour experimentation in Global new world order super economy.
    Cue, the new “Turbo charged” economy…. That means more money changing hands, a lean state and public sector, a new suit of opportunities for private sector to make a killing as the Tory party sell off what’s left of the family silver.
    Meanwhile, Scotland is hung out to dry with a few cyclists holding a gold medal without a single Velodrome in the whole of Scotland to ride their bikes on.
    Scotland is going to be mugged, shafted and raped by the English if it carries on. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. The Scottish people are a spiritual race, but so were the indigenous people of Australia and America and look what happened to them!

  • Se1man

    Nonsense re ‘Unionist Gold’.

    Millions of people care about the Olympics, myself included (Wilhelm, it’s absurd to write that “No one cares…”) but the hangover will start to kick in on Monday morning, and come 2014 which do you think will have a greater bearing on the consciousness of Scots voters: the Olympics which happened over 2 years ago in faraway but domineering London, or the Commonwealth Games just happened in Glasgow, where Salmond will play up the “Aren’t we marvellous!” theme even more theatrically than Boris and Cameron managed in London?

  • Se1man

    Nonsense re ‘Unionist Gold’.

    Millions of people care about the Olympics, myself included (Wilhelm, it’s absurd to write that “No one cares…”) but the hangover will start to kick in on Monday morning, and come 2014 which do you think will have a greater bearing on the consciousness of Scots voters: the Olympics which happened over 2 years ago in faraway but domineering London, or the Commonwealth Games just happened in Glasgow, where Salmond will play up the “Aren’t we marvellous!” theme even more theatrically than Boris and Cameron managed in London?

  • http://twitter.com/Wilhelm1901 Wilhelm

    i liked the way Nelson said ” velodrome.”

  • JP

    Humm … I wonder which global sporting event will have just
    come to an end in the autumn of 2014, which provokes anti-English sentiment
    like no other!! And I’m afraid the Olympics
    will be a distant memory by then. Don’t
    kid yourself, Salmond’s all over this.
    Best thing for the union might be that England don’t qualify!!

    • William Wallace

      Let’s not forget 2014 is the 700th aniversty of Battle of Bannockburn too. Que the music…

  • http://twitter.com/Wilhelm1901 Wilhelm

    No one cares about the Olympics, it’s 2 weeks of bongo madness. The media is manufacturing an ” excitement ” and ” buzz ” to sell newspapers. 3 days after the Olympics is over it will all be forgotten. Ask yourself this, who won the long jump or the ping pong or the hopscotch in the Beijing Olympics ? You see, no one can remember.

    The Olympics are a distraction, bread and circuses, the real issue is mass immigration. There will be no legacy, the stadiums will be white elephants just as they are in Sydney and Athens.

    As for ” Super Saturday ” when ” Briton ” Mo Farrar ( Somalian ) ran some egg and spoon race and we’re told to celebrate and rejoice at all this diversity ( displacement ) multiculturalism ( dispossession ) and miscegenation ( ethnic suicide ). Yeah, great stuff.

    A much more momentous event happened at the weekend, NASA put down a spacecraft on Mars ( not covered by the media cos it’s a bit boring, besides they have more important things to do like gushing over some Jamaican sprinter called Bolt )

    • Alexsandr

      lots of people watching a few people do PE and the lucky ones get loadsamoney

    • http://twitter.com/ianwalkeruk Ian Walker

      I care about the Olympics. I also care about the Curiosity rover. Amazingly I have the mental capacity for two things. Sometimes more.

      • http://twitter.com/Wilhelm1901 Wilhelm

        Ian Walker” I care about the Olympics .”

        That’s a very strange thing to say , so do you care about handball, judo, white water rafting, dressage, skittles ? sports we have never heard of, the media has not been interested in or covered in the last 4 years and which they will forget about in the next 4 years until the Olympic dog and pony show turns up in Rio.

        • JS

          Do we not think that the appeal of the Olympics is that it shows interesting but neglected sports, giving people a great opportunity once every four years to watch such sports?!

          • http://twitter.com/Wilhelm1901 Wilhelm

            JS

            If the BBC were really interested in these sports, they would show them every day of the week, they don’t.

        • http://twitter.com/ianwalkeruk Ian Walker

          A friend’s husband is a handball coach, my brother plays judo, white water rafting isn’t an Olympic sport (although it’s a dream of mine to go and do it once), dressage is fascinating to watch, and skittles wasn’t in the Olympics – perhaps you are getting confused with that time you sat in the pub all alone, moaning into your beer about humbug?

      • Daniel Maris

        Same here. I can cover both. Wilhelm seems to be missing 50% brain capacity.

    • http://twitter.com/ianwalkeruk Ian Walker

      I care about the Olympics. I also care about the Curiosity rover. Amazingly I have the mental capacity for two things. Sometimes more.

    • Eddie

      Not true. People do care about the Olympics, even non-sporty types (like, 95% of persons and almost all women).
      Why? Because it’s one of those international events and a showcase to the world – and, despite the best efforts of the politically correct diversity-dribbling muppets at the BBC, and perfidious Castro-esque stinking rich union leaders (who realised they had no public support), the whole thing has gone rather well. No Islamist bombs either, which is a boon.
      I watched the tennis final and I watch some highlights (sitting down alll day to watch the endless tedium of track and field is not for me really).
      What I find hilarious is how that English-hating bigot nationalist Alec Salmond (is any other politician quite so oleaginous?) called the riots last summer the ‘English riots’ (as did the BBC et al) despite many rioters being non-English and having non-English parents, but the BBC and the rest are always so keen to say that the Olympic Games are British, despite their taking place almost exclusively in England!
      So let’s see, the 2011 riots were English (not British) and the Olympics taking place in England are not English but British. Hmmm…
      But Blimey! A Royal Wedding, a Diamond Jubilee and a London Olympics all in 2 years to remind the Scots what they’d lose if they went it alone (though really, the English too should have a say about dissolving the union of course…)

      • cynic

        “A Royal Wedding, a Diamond Jubilee and a London Olympics all in 2 years
        to remind the Scots what they’d lose if they went it alone”.
        Well, this argument can be reversed: there will not be another Jubilee and another Olympics during the lifetimes of all Britons, and I would not be surprised if the next Royal wedding takes place in Holyrood, as the Crown of Scotland will need the good PR. SO there.

        • Eddie

          You seem deluded: the Scots have been big supporters of the royal wedding, jubilee and Olympics and realise starkly what they would be if independent – a small insignificant country like Albania populated by obese unhealthy drunks on the northern crag of a rock off the north-weat of Europe.
          The Scots are not united genetically anyway – Scotland was essentially invented by the 19th century English (Queen Victoria especially). All a load of romanticised castles and kilts cobblers. Those in Scotland are either Irish (Scots) or Picts or Scandinavians or from the same stock as the English (read ‘who are the British’ to see that the English, Welsh and Scots are genetically almost identical). Plus the Pakistanis, Africans, Polish etc who the Scots will now have to accept as Scotttish – together with anyone who moves north from England to get the freebies…
          Or will the brave new world of Salmond-land have race laws huh?

      • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

        The riots happened in England not in Scotland so they were English riots.
        And you will find that Scots view the Olympics in terms of it being London’s Olympics and not as you say the British Olymipics and are not really that bothered about the whole event [even though they paid for it and got zero back] as the low attendances at Hampden for Olympic football showed.
        As for our F.M Mr Salmond being an “English hating bigot” this just shows your ignorance of the politics in Scotland. The F.M a few months ago made a speech stating how England was such a great country. Your ignorant comment is an insult not just to the F.M but to the English SNP members and supporters of Independence who live in Scotland and the English SNP MSP’s and MP’s in both Holyrood and Westminster

        • Eddie

          If Alec Salmond talked about blacks or Pakistanis the way he talks about the English, then he’d be arrested and charged with apublic order offence: and his public expression is mild compared to what he and other bigots say in private.
          The riots happened in England? Yep, so did the Olympics. Yet you call the former English and the latter British. Both had very large representation of non-English persons and those born to immigrants (Scots, Jamaicans, Asians): almost 50% of arrests were of black people (genetically NOT European, let alone English: so why not call them the black riots then?)
          The way Scotland is stealing money from England and Wales is disgraceful: it is a bribe, pure and simple, from the Barnett Formula onwwards. No valid reason why people in Scotland should be getting better-funded healthcare and care homes than in England or Wales: it is NOT Scottish money that’s paying for that, it’s English bribes.

          • http://twitter.com/housty45 Keith Houston

            I’ve never heard Alex Salmond say anything anti English that’s nonsense. His statements regarding the other nations of these isles are his wish to be the best of neighbours.
            Scotland has only part of the taxes raised here returned to us in the Barnet Formula. What you and many others ignore is though we have more spent per head. Scots contribute more per head than any other part of the UK.

            • Eddie

              Oh come off it! London and the south-east of England is the region of the UK that sends taxes to all the others.
              Because of bribes – ie the Barnett formula – Scotland gets over 10% more public funding than any other part of the UK: utterly unjustifiable, but this is what pays for the free care and student grants.
              If I lived in the north of England, watching money fly over my head over the border on its way north to Scotland, I’d be mightily pissed off. And Wales gets far less than Scotland too. Though bothScotland, Wales, NI, and the North of England get many MANY times more taxes back than they put it: that is not a problem for me, but purlease do not pretend that disparity does not exist. I used to live in London and the southeast where I grew up and now live in Wales – so I know that 1) the Scots fantasy (shared by northern English whingers) that everyone in London is rich is piffle; 2) that Wales is getting way less funding than Scotland.
              So the Scots get way more than anyone else and still moan and whinge and insult the English. Hmmm. Time for some democracy and equality, methinks.
              Scotland should get the same public funding per head as England: how can anyone argue against that really?

        • Eddie

          I hope you enjoyed the English Olympics.
          I hope we enjoy your Scottish Commonwealth Games too, when they come.

        • Eddie

          I hope you enjoyed the English Olympics.
          I hope we enjoy your Scottish Commonwealth Games too, when they come.

  • Daniel Maris

    Well we’ve had some spectacular mismanagement of the economy from the coalition in the last two years, with the necessary fire-fighting approach being sacrificed to what was meant to be an ideological advance but (given the nature of the coalition and the idiocy of the ideology in most respects) has turned into a soggy mess.
    They had their chance and now it is gone. “Turbo charged” growth seems highly improbable – a slow limping ascent out of the abyss or further falls seem much more likely.
    And all the time (as, at last the ONS have made clear) mass immigration is turning the screw soaking up any little increases in GDP and eroding disposable income when there is no growth.
    We could live with the debt mountain, but receiving 5 million new residents every ten years is I believe unsustainable.

    • dalai guevara

      Daniel, my special thanks go to all the Polish plumbers, the African cleaners, the Lebanese falafel fryers, the German engineers for lifting the single glazed, coal fired, morris minor driving, chippy dinner consuming UK population out of the Middle Ages.

      Thank God Britain is a country that has the amazing ability of integrating new ideas, just like the US/ Australia are always praised for essentially being a nation of immigrants.

      • Eddie

        So, you like it when immigrants come here and work for less money than locals, making them unemployed and reducing their wages, pushing up house prices and rents, putting huge pressure on schools and hospitals and reducing everyone;s quality of life. Idiot.
        The British population was not in the middle ages before immigrants came here: the Brits invented more than half of major inventions in the world, so we did not need German engineers, you moron.
        Also, it is noticeable that last year’s riots were only in England. Why? Because England has a huge black population, which Wales and Scotland do not have; morever, 15% of criminals in jail are foreign and I think 30% are black. So how have they enriched us then?
        You do not need lots of immigrants to take others’ ideas – as Japan and China prove.
        YOu are essentially an ignorant Brit-hating twerp who thinks British food comprise ‘chips’ – it’s really not worth anyone talking to someone as pif ignorant as you.
        Do us all a favour: go and be an immigrant in another country, as you seem to hate we Brits so much.

        • dalai guevara
          • Eddie

            Yep. the white scum in Manchester saw the black scum in London were being allowed to rob, so they had a go too.
            But really, the riots were started and spread through London and other cities by black scumbags. Look at the riots programmes on BBC2 at the moment: and wipe those politically correct scales from your ignorant eyes.
            Wales and Scotland have tiny black populations; ergo, there were no riots there. Everywhere with a large black population had riots – and it all started because blacks in that slime-hole called Tottenham (VERY black area: I used to live a mile or 2 from there) were protesting because a drugdeadline scumbag black criminal waving a fake gun was shot dead (a good deed, IMHO).
            Statistic show that over half arrested and charged after the riots were black – in London far higher.
            To be honest, I care not what a twit like you thinks: the riots were caused by blacks and Wales and Scotland escaped because there are not many ‘vibrant’ blacks there to go arioting or protesing against police arresting black criminals.

            • dalai guevara

              You did not get the essence of my post: I have long stopped blaming others before I haven’t thoroughly blamed myself.

              Why e.g. is it that in the UK construction industry, you cannot find ANY black construction workers? They cannot work hard? lol!

              I sense a lot of frustration in your posts. Now that the Olympics have come to a close, would it not be a grand idea to pick up a ball or play with some sand to vent your anger? It works! Interestingly, that is the same treatment prescribed to the ‘feril underclass’ which you appear to loath with such conviction.

              • Eddie

                Dalai – I sense a lot of IGNORANCE in your posts. Wouldn’t it be a good idea for your to get an education? Then perhaps you wouldn’t post such twerpery every day.
                Being angry against idiots, liars, twerps and self-righeous cants like you. Those like me who fight for what is right do tend to get angry at idiots and liars like you – Nelson Mandela did, as do all activists for a better world.
                In my experience, those people spitting anger at everyone and accusing them of racism and loonie (literally) leftwing losers with poor metal health.
                FACT: The riots happened in England because English cities have lots of black people; Wales and Scotland have very few ethnics (less than 3%) therefore they did not have riots in 2011 (though when their black populations get bigger no doubt they can join in the ethnic fun). The London riots were (from pictures) 80% black: to argue anything else is to prove yourself a liar who refuses to accept the facts (like a denier of the holocaust despite all evidence).
                Plenty of jobs out there but most black kids are unqualified, unwilling to work hard in jobs they see as below them, demand rispek (with menaces) from everyone, and have an attitude that makes them unemployable. They are unemployed because of their own attitudes, stupidity and laziness – unlike the other immigrants who come here and get a job within days.
                I hope you get mugged by some of these wonderful black people you mention. Shouldn’t be hard: just wander round London looking white; some diverse and vibrant type will soon help you rearrange your wallet… (80% of muggers are black y’know)
                BTW what does ‘feril’ mean. Oh yes, you mean ‘feral’.
                Education education education.
                Try it one day: you might enjoy it and y’know, learn stuff…

                • dalai guevara

                  This might not be news for you and you have heard it lots of times.

                  Nelson Mandela has never uttered constant swear words against other ethnicities. Are you comparing yourself with him? Bless! Your position is more comparable to Eugene Terre Blanche’s.

                • Eddie

                  Errr…and I do not utter swear words against other ethnicities too. YOu are projecting your own fantasy of a ‘racist’ on me, you sad and pathetic little runt!
                  This son of an immigrant needs no lectures from an ill-informed racist twat like you – but I find you amusing, in the manner that I find all those sad white socalled liberals who turn a blind eye to rape and murder if it’s done by black and brown people ‘amusing’. You are a sick joke personified.
                  You are a racist too: if it had been WHITE people rioting in Tottenham then you would say so; because they were black, you pretend they were not! You are thick or deluded or both. I apply standards and value equally to everyone irrespective of their skin colour – you do not, and sadly, because of pressure from politically correct morons who call anyone who arrests black scum ‘racist’ the police applied different standards too last summer: if it had been whites rioting in Tottenham then they would have acted; because it’s scumbag blacks, they just stood and watched. That was racist.
                  I say what I see and back it up with statistics: more than half of all arrests for the riots were of black people, even though lots of the scumbags escaped because they wore face coverings (and only the opportunists got done).
                  The problem will never be solved until we are honest about it. Nelson Mandela would see that and agree with me here, because he is a rational and realistic man. And he and I are not racists, unlike you.
                  Silly twits like you who calkl anyone who does not agree with the multi-culti nonsense you parrot is called ‘way-cist’ by liar scum members of the mob like you. No doubt you also think the emperor is wearing a lovely suit of clothes today and that all black people are lovely and fluffy law-abiding non-racist non-criminal ideal citizens. Sadly for you, the statistics back me up and not you.
                  But in South Africa, there were 2 white tribes (British and Boor) and they have been there for 300 years, way longer than most blacks in Europe – and yet they now find the local people and their rapist corrupt president saying they are not African; ergo, blacks here are not Britishj or European by the same token.

                • dalai guevara

                  Are you following me? Unfollow! …and get a job.

                • Eddie

                  Dalai Moron – you replied to MY post, dumbo – ergo, you are stalking me, you MENTALLIST!
                  Unlike 50% of black males, I do have a job – unlike you, I dare say.
                  Now buzz off, you blithering blockheaded idiot, and spew your racist nonsense elsewhere. Might I suggest a website? It’s called ‘AccuseNonracistsofRacisimWhenTheyAreHonestAboutBlackCrime dot com’.
                  You’ll be lovin it an ting, bruv – dya get me?!

                • dalai guevara

                  Jesus Christ, man you are mental. Why is there no block button on this website?

                • Eddie

                  Zzzz – you lose the debate by your abuse and off-topic mentalist ranting. Bye bye, liar racist twerp. Time to f off to the Morning Star website or perhaps The Voice anti-white racist excuses-fest for black criminality and failure.
                  Oh, and look at this – by a mixed race women. LOSER!
                  http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/

  • alexsandr

    does anyone REALLY think the olympics will have any relevance to anything in September once all the hype has died down.
    The only legacy will be another quarter of no growth, for the Olympics did damage tourism, and a resurgence of the questioning of the organisation. I expect some nasty select committee hearings.

    I still resent I don’t get a say of Scottish independence. Their leaving will have as much effect on England as on Scotland as the rest of the union should be consulted.

    • Daniel Maris

      I think the only difference is that it will engender an underlying confidence about our ability in the world – that could favour Lab, Con or UKIP depending on how they play it. Not sure about the soggy centre of the Lib Dems but Vince might make something of it in terms of our industrial strategy – correctly deducing you don’t win medals without a lot of planning and training.

    • William Blakes Ghost

      When one partner says to the other ‘I’m leaving you’,. does the other get a choice? Should a partner who wishes to leave their partner be forced to stay because the other partner doesn’t want them to leave?

      Should we let the rest of Europe decide whether we stay in the EU or not?. Should Argentina get to vote on whether the Falklands remains part of the UK and Commonwealth as part of the planned referendum they will have? Should we in the UK also have a say in that referendum?

      Self-determination is a fundamental right of any society.. Live with it! Let the Scottish decide their fate on their own. We English will be fine with or without them!

      • Alexsandr

        So why cant he English vote to kick the scots out of the union? where is our self determination? Oh I forgot, we are the English who have no culture or ethnicity of our own so have to do as we are told and accept the leftovers.
        Lets not forget the sweaties came crawling to England for a bailout after their ill-judged Darren escapade which led to the Act of Union

      • Publius

        Perhaps the Scots could depart before the next election. That would be a convenient way of solving the West Lothian question and a few other problems at the same time.

        Let them go with our blessing. Own parliament, own laws, own taxes, and if they want to continue with it, a shared monarch.

        It would suit the LibDems with their supposed passion for localism and democracy; it would suit Labour who did so much to bring this separation about. (Though I suspect both would suddenly find reasons to object.)

        • Ensaffron

          When they depart, could they perhaps depart to Ireland?

      • Eddie

        yes, but if 51% vote for a split, that means 49% do not want it – I know of no-one in Shetland or the Orkneys who does, and the ‘yes’ vote with mostly be from Govan and Glasgow, the Western Isles and the English incomers who want to create a leftie paradise (on English subsidies) north of the border. There should have to be a 70% vote of YES, I think for Scotland to destroy the union it has taken so much from. That would be fair and just.
        It is truly disgusting that the healthcare systems of England and Wales are hard-pressed precisely because too many taxes have gone north; ditto with carehome fee and student loans. It is NOT Scottish money that the Scots are spending – they get way too much and way more proportionately than Wales or the English regions or inner cities: all places with serious poverty.

        • http://twitter.com/housty45 Keith Houston

          If you believe Scotland is on English subsidies why oppose independence, with ill informed nonsense like this ?

          • Eddie

            Because the Union of England. Wales, Scotland and NI works – and should stay as it is.
            However, each constituent nation should get its FAIR share of public money – they should not demand bribes from London as the Scots have been doing for decades. The Barnett Formula is unfair to England, yes – but also to Wales and NI. The Welsh healthcare system is suffering because of over-genrous subsidies to Scotland, for example: I have experience of this.
            I am not opposed to subsidies from London’s rich corporate taxpayers to outlying areas of the UK either – but is must be fair AND INDEPENDENTLY decided (this task should be taken out of government hands, like for election constituency boundaries: at the moment, Scotland gets more than its fair share, and all right-thinking people who want fairness will agree with that. Wales and the north of England should get more; Scotland should bet less: THAT IS FAIR.
            Those Scots jingo-jimmies who hate England and want to wallow in a perpetual English-hating pity-party while living high on the hog of English taxpayers generoristy will not – but as they are experts at spouting nonsense, I ignore such bigots, whether from Scotland or England (the Scousers specialise in this self-pity London-blaming too).
            By the way, I hope you enjoyed The English Olympics.

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