Coffee House

Is Gordon Brown a Scottish Nationalist?

12 August 2012

12 August 2012

In 1997 the Labour government tampered with the UK constitution. They then vetoed anyone reading the minutes of the cabinet meeting where it was agreed a parliament for Scotland would be implemented. Now Gordon Brown, one of the architects of the Scottish Parliament, is about to start spreading the Scottish nationalist view in a lecture entitled ‘Scotland and Britain in 2025′ at the Edinburgh International Book Festival today.

This raises the question: is Gordon Brown a Scottish nationalist? Kim Howells’ ‘smoking’ gun statement to the McKay Commission on 24 July 2012 revealed that Labour knew they would be creating an unstable UK. He acknowledged that the party knew the West Lothian question could not be answered without establishing an English Parliament. But Blair and Brown’s New Labour government changed the constitution regardless and in doing so betrayed all Unionists. Their tampering gave Scottish independence a realistic chance of success and not surprisingly the SNP seized the opportunity; the concept of Britain surviving without Scotland was born. Now less knowledgeable Unionists are expressing this view: that it is possible to have a United Kingdom without Scotland.

Blair’s biography states that Brown was keener than him to establish a Scottish Parliament. There is, however, the intriguing possibility that Brown was simply keen to start the long process of ripping up the Act of Union.

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Still Brown is not finished with his tampering. During his lecture at the Edinburgh International Book Festival he will be encouraging a confident Scotland to have a greater say in its own affairs through devolution. He will paint a picture of Scotland and Britain as he hopes they will be experienced by a future generation. Surely such a title openly supports ‘Scottish Independence’? If he wanted to save the Union, the lecture should be entitled ‘Scotland within Britain in 2015′ as there cannot be a Britain without Scotland.

Lord Wallace of Tankerness was correct in telling the Scottish Politics event on 3 July 2012, ‘that the UK would be entering uncharted waters’. Great Britain was founded on the fusion of the Kingdom of England with the Kingdom of Scotland in 1707. If Unionists want to stop Scottish independence, they need to understand the legal points. They need to look at solutions such as rebalancing the UK and discussing an English Parliament within a Federal system.

All Unionists should read the Act of Union because it can only be construed that the UK is finished if Scotland becomes independent. Covering up the devious act of ignoring the English and facilitating a grab for constitutional control by Scotland would easily explain why Jack Straw vetoed releasing the minutes of the 1997 Cabinet Committee Meeting on Devolution to Scotland and Wales and the English regions. According to the Ministry of Justice, this is only the second time since the Freedom of Information Act was introduced in 2005 that an order of the Information Tribunal has been vetoed out of 160,000 requests. Straw stated that releasing the information would be against the public interest. The fact that the only other veto upheld was in relation to the Iraq conflict gives some insight as to just how controversial the details of that cabinet meeting may be.

Gordon Brown’s approach essentially leaves the Welsh and Northern Irish with a very small voice in a botched English Parliament mislabelled as a UK Parliament. This would be unsustainable and unfair on the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. His view is dangerous as Irish republicans are obviously going to challenge the legitimacy of the Act of Union with the Kingdom of Ireland (1801) and call for their own referendum. This has already started with Martin McGuiness declaring his wish for a referendum in the province ‘by 2016’.

If the English Question, whose only answer is an English Parliament, is not discussed during the Scottish Independence debate then the debate will develop into the British Question, whose only answer is dissolution. Thus by denying the debate, Unionists may in effect end up supporting the Scottish Nationalist approach to gaining independence and witness the death throes of the United Kingdom.

Eddie Bone is Chairman of the Campaign for an English Parliament.


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Show comments
  • Daniel Maris

    I must say the author is right that the Act of Union makes it clear that with Scotland’s departure the United Kingdom is dissolve. Both Scotland and England (with Wales and Northern Ireland) would be successor states.
    It also raises the question of why Northern Ireland which has far more religious, ethnic and cultural affinity with Scotland should stay with England rather than Scotland. It makes no sense.
    I think it would be better if we negotiated a properly federal system, with separate defence forces but a common defence treaty and a common diplomatic representation in most countries and at the UN.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

      Daniel Maris ‘”It also raises the question of why Northern Ireland which has far more religious, ethnic and cultural affinity with Scotland should stay with England rather than Scotland”
      Because Ireland was an English colony before 1707. Wales was absorbed into England with the Laws of Wales acts 1535 and 1542 which is why it is not in the Union in its own right anymore than Northumberland or any other English county is and not represented on the Union flag. So once Scotland leaves the Union then the UK is ended and what you have left is England with it’s colony N.I and principality of Wales .

      Before anyone pipes up about the 1603 act they should read the following…
      The
      United Kingdom, as the name suggests, was created by the Union of the Crowns in
      1603, not the Treaty of Union in 1707

      This is wrong on all
      counts. The Union of the Crowns is, and always has been, a historical and legal
      misnomer. The Crowns of the two countries were not united in 1603. The crowns,
      and the two countries, remained separate. All that happened was that the same
      head came for the first time to wear the separate crowns of two separate
      countries. What happened in 1706/07 was that Anne, Queen of Scotland, entered
      into a treaty with Anne, Queen of England, to merge the two countries into a
      single state in international law. Then and only then was there a United
      Kingdom.

      This is wrong on all
      counts.
      The Union of the Crowns is, and always has been, a historical and legal
      misnomer. The Crowns of the two countries were not united in 1603. The crowns,
      and the two countries, remained separate. All that happened was that the same
      head came for the first time to wear the separate crowns of two separate
      countries. What happened in 1706/07 was that Anne, Queen of Scotland, entered
      into a treaty with Anne, Queen of England, to merge the two countries into a
      single state in international law. Then and only then was there a United
      Kingdom.

      Poor Northern Ireland nobody wants it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

        Scots should be asking themselves the following question
        Imagine the Act of Union had never happened.

        Imagine Scotland was TODAY an independent country.

        Imagine we were being asked to vote to JOIN the union for the first time.
        Therefore the proposal would be:

        Your main parliament will move hundreds of miles away.

        Your MPs will be in a small minority with little chance to influence decisions.

        You will have 
a government you didn’t vote for
        .
        You will hand over all your oil and gas revenues to the London Treasury.
        Would you vote yes to creating the UK?

  • dercavalier

    I don’t know why we bother commenting on this article. It is so obviously a search for advertising click numbers. Nevertheless I WILL comment and insult if some thick English troll tries to denigrate Scotland.

  • dercavalier

    I don’t know why we bother commenting on this article. It is so obviously a search for advertising click numbers. Nevertheless I WILL comment and insult if some thick English troll tries to denigrate Scotland.

  • dercavalier

    I don’t know why we bother commenting on this article. It is so obviously a search for advertising click numbers. Nevertheless I WILL comment and insult if some thick English troll tries to denigrate Scotland.

  • http://twitter.com/GeoLaird George Laird

    Dear All

    The title is Gordon Brown a Scottish Nationalist?

    I would say he is an unhappy opportunist. He is promoting himself, grabbing the limelight and trying to be relevant.

    His record in parliament is a disgrace since he was elected.

    Yours sincerely

    George Laird
    The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

  • http://twitter.com/GeoLaird George Laird

    Dear All

    The title is Gordon Brown a Scottish Nationalist?

    I would say he is an unhappy opportunist. He is promoting himself, grabbing the limelight and trying to be relevant.

    His record in parliament is a disgrace since he was elected.

    Yours sincerely

    George Laird
    The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

  • Fluffy Thoughts

    Grow up: Let ’em go.

    Scotland may – temporarily – be financially safe [sic], but the Welsh and Ulster-Scots are UK-paupers. They should all have a fair choice: Incorparation into the Kingdom of England as ‘unitary counties’ or full independence (funded by DfiD and not English – including punery EU – contributions).

    Nations need to grow-up and stand as individuals. Can our Celtic cousins undertake this…?

  • ricardo

    He canna be a nationalist,he disna hae a brain,he knackered Britain,he wont knacker Auld Scotia. Scotland is on the move,but global broon is not included

  • ricardo

    He canna be a nationalist,he disna hae a brain,he knackered Britain,he wont knacker Auld Scotia. Scotland is on the move,but global broon is not included

  • Jock

    So Gordon Brown allowed democracy a chance in dictatorial Britain… how very dare he!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Max-Stone/100000643664896 Max Stone

    If he starts supporting the yes team, then the independence vote is a good as lost for the Scots!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Max-Stone/100000643664896 Max Stone

    If he starts supporting the yes team, then the independence vote is a good as lost for the Scots!

  • karaokeguitarman

    My old grandad taught me that the Scots were as thick as pigsh*t and twice as mean. says one.He did not teach you very well did he? Scotland was the first country to adopt schooling for everybody,and produced the first encyclopaedia and have a record of academic achievement and invention way in excess of any other nation per head of population.on this planet .Nothing could be further from the truth, and the fact that you dont know what is only common knowledge says far more about you and your grandad than anything you did say !

    • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

      SCOTLAND is producing scientific research that is leading the world in medicine, engineering and space exploration/
      A report, which looked at the extent to which Scottish research is picked up internationally, suggests that Scotland’s research base is among the best in the world.
      The report commissioned by Professor Anne Glover showed that researchers around the world cite work carried out in Scotland’s universities, institutes, industry and the NHS more often than work done in any other country relative to GDP.
      When the number of citations in scientific papers were measured, Scotland achieved 1.8 per cent of world citations in 2008, despite the country having a population share of less than 0.1 per cent.
      The impact of Scottish research, as measured by citations per paper, has been well above the world average in recent years and rose by a further 21 per cent in 2008, with only Switzerland ranked higher.
      Scotland is ranked third in the world for citations per researcher, behind Switzerland and the Netherlands and ahead of all the other G8 countries.
      Among the work highlighted at the launch of Prof Glover’s report were the remarkable images of stars being born 1,650 light years away in the middle of the constellation of Orion.
      The pictures were created using Vista, the world’s largest wide-field telescope, in the Atacama desert in Chile, which has a main mirror 4.1m across and was designed by the UK Astronomy Technology Centre in Edinburgh.
      Scotland is number one in space science research,” Prof Glover said. “But in every area of science we are outperforming the world average. The performance is truly stunning for a nation of five million people.”
      Now from BBC…… “England should look north of the border for answers to the problem of poor maths
      skills, says a report”
      A study by the Royal Society of Arts says England, where one in four adults
      cannot do basic calculations, is out-performed by the likes of Scotland and Hong
      Kong. England’s maths education is not fit for purpose and risks damaging the
      economy, it adds With nearly half of our students failing to achieve GCSE mathematics grade C or
      above, long term reform should be an urgent priority for ministers,” said report
      author Emma Norris
      The RSA report also says some students’ numeracy skills are so limited that
      universities are having to minimise the maths content of some science courses
      including medicine and psychology.

      Prof Dame Athene Donald, chairwoman of the Royal Society education committee, said: “We need to identify the factors that make the Scottish education system so successful in encouraging the uptake of science subjects in order to inspire the next generation of students to commit to scientific study from school to university.”

      • Squire Western

        Did you cut and paste this @danceswithhaggis ? Unlike the majority of your posts it is devoid both of your customary spelling mistakes and anti-English invectives.

  • karaokeguitarman

    Whether Scotland changes anything can only be a product of democratic processes.. The language used in this article such as betrayed Unionists is disgustingly biased.The facts are all LONDON parties concealed the contents of Prof Gavin McCrones Report and lied to the people of Scotland every day for the last thirty years at absolute minimum and are still doing so..He damaged the United Kingdom but it was because like most Labour politicians they were in it for personal gain, and were grossly incompetent.

  • Martin Falconer

    This so called human, referred to his home nation as North Britain, if I met him again I would throw him from the balcony that I first met him on, he will always be a traitor to Scotland in all the sense of a Vichy French, he deserves to be hung like Saddam. Traitor to the people he was supposed to represent, a fundamental traitor to Scotland!!! A person that Scottish Labour no longer have as a representative.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=606766989 Niall Dòmhnall MacGill-Eain

    If Brown is a Nationalist, then he has gone up in my estimation.

  • John Ruddy

    Eddie Bone obviously knows nothing about either Scottish Nationalism, or Gordon Brown.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sion-Jones/639598707 Siôn Jones

    So, what you are saying is that the Scots should not act in their own interest for fear of disadvantaging the English, the Welsh and the Northern Irish. I’m sure that will be the convincer for the No campaign!

  • William Blakes Ghost

    Brown’s malevolence knows no bounds. The most reprehensible politician of a generation and the worst Prime Minister of the 20th and 21st Century

  • HairyNoddy

    Of course he was. He signed the Scottish Claim of Right before he became our worst Prime Minister of the 20th Century.

    The Scottish Claim of Right starts : “We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount.”

    By pledging that the interests of the scotch would be paramount, he should have rendered himself unfit to take part in UK government. Unfortunately he went on to become PM, and showed favouritism to the scotch (and stabbed the English in the back) at every available opportunity.

    • hairynoddy

      That should be 21st Century obviously

  • Nate1988

    Stop confusing Britain (Geography) with United Kingdom (Political). Amateur stuff

  • 2trueblue

    Whatever. Frankly as long as he can interfere no further in our affairs that would be great. This is the man who was the main architect of our broken economy. Let him go there and take them with him. Independence for England. IT is really odd that the Scots and the Welsh get there own parliament and we do not?

    • Mark Smith

      Yes it is odd that you don’t get your own parliament. And the sooner you do, the better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    Time for England to stand on its own two feet for the first time in 700 years without the resourses of other countries to support it.
    I feel England should be able to at least make a go of it alone, it will be hard but after a few decades she will be able to stand up proud as an Independent country

  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    Almost 300 years and never a word about an English parliament, not a complaint. Why? because the English had always viewed Britain as being England and British as being English and the the rest were just colonies to the north , west and east. So they viewed Westminster as solely the English parliament. Then as soon as those “uppity northern tribes” got restless and demanded their own representation and control of their own affairs it burst the English bubble and they woke up to the fact that there are countries out there other than England and start crying for an English parliament and how they have been done over by the Jocks…..Just pathetic…but dont worry…Scotland will give you yer Independence in 2014-16

    • Nicholas

      “Almost 300 years and never a word about an English parliament, not a complaint. Why? because the English had always viewed Britain as being England and British as being English and the the rest were just colonies to the north , west and east.”

      Why? Probably because there was only one parliament and it was British. Devolution brought disparity because it fundamentally undermined this to the disadvantage of the English. The rest of your rant is rank rubbish. I’m English and I have never viewed Britain as being England. And I never felt any animosity towards the Scots until idiots like you started expressing animosity to the English. You want Britain to be like the Balkans? Carry on. Personally I’d rather something more united, friendly and equitable.

      • Radford_NG

        11 Aug. c.5.35pm.BST…………..Scottish Torys were independent Liberal Unionists (often representing a presbyterian working-class).They gave us two P.M.s [Bonar Law and Douglas Home].That was until ‘Ted Heath added his own brand of anti-magic’ and amalgamated them under the control of Central Office;and it’s been down hill ever since. [This from Salisbury Review,Spring 2012] Something for the next Conservative leadership to think on.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    Is Gordon Brown a Scottish Nationalist bigot?

  • anyfool

    No he is not a Nat he is a devious lying turd of which all countries have there fair share, we went one further and let him take the two top political jobs in the UK, if the Nat’s have any sense they will disown this slimy son of the manse, if not i fear Scotland will soon be in the crap that this man spews out wherever he comes to rest.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    Is Gordon Brown a Scottish Nationalist?
    Such a stupid question. Brown when asked in an American interview where he came from ,Broon could’nt even bring himself to say Scotland instead saying he is “North British” , dredging up the 18th century term used when they were litterally trying to wipe Scotland off the map and fade Scotland from the Scottish peoples memory [How did that work out for them].
    Broon is a Britnat to his core.

    Devoloution was brought in by Labour to halt the clamour for Scottish Independence and the threat to Labour’s dominence in Scotland posed by the SNP. As Lordy Georgy Robertson said at the time showing his superiour skills in misjudgment “”Devoloution will kill Scottish Nationalism stone dead”

  • PeterABell

    The suggestion that Gordon Brown might be a closet Scottish nationalist is, of course, ridiculous. Brown is a self-declared British nationalist. Which means he is totally committed to denying, by any means fair or foul, the aspirations of civic nationalists in both Scotland and England.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

      Exactly peter..These ppl of the Specbigots slag rag live in a total fantasy….and failte M8

      • Mark Smith

        For anyone who is interested Brown did write a biography on James Maxton as well as literature on devolution.

        Just thought I’d chuck that in as well.

        • Mark Smith

          Then again, he did say that his favourite goal was gazza’s against us in 1996.

          Therefore, he is a dikc.

    • Ron Todd

      Just because Brown claims to be something does not prove that he is.

      • Andy

        True. He doesn’t claim to be an idiot, but he is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    The English parliament is just a red herring . The UK parliament is the English parliament which has a massive advantage over the devolved Scots parliament and the Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies in that the Scots parliament and the Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies have capped budgets whereas the English parliament existing through the UK Parliament has uncapped finances.
    If you want an English only soveriegn English paliament as defined by some on the English right wing then fine, and you dont have to do anything except tell your MP’s to stop opposing Scots Independence as Scots Indy delivers your English paliament because as the only factual statement in the above article says that after Scots Indy is achieved the UK no longer exists.
    Northern Ireland goes back to it’s pre-1707 status as an English colony and since Wales was absorbed into England and therefore is not part of the UK Union in it’s own right as a country any more than Northumberland is or any other English county then that leaves only England.
    The West Lothian question. Scots Indy resolves this. There has always been a west Lothian type question since the Old Irish parliament was formed in Stormont and later the N.I assembly, But you never heard Tory MP’s complaining about this ” Bushmills question” in the 20th century, Why? because Ulster Unionists always voted with the Tories in the UK parliament.
    I have not once ever heard any English complain about the “Canterbury question” where English Lords Spiritual vote on Scots only matters.
    Scotland will give England its independence in 2014-16….Enjoy yer parliament [and penuary]

  • Mirtha Tidville

    Come on does anyone take this incompetent clown seriously anymore??……let him ramble no one will be listening.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

    Is Gordon Brown a Scottish Nationalist?
    Such a stupid question. Brown when asked in an American interview where he came from ,Broon could’nt even bring himself to say Scotland instead saying he is “North British” , dredging up the 18th century term used when they were litterally trying to wipe Scotland off the map and fade Scotland from the Scottish peoples memory [How did that work out for them]. Broon is a Britnat to his core.
    Devoloution was brought in by Labour to halt the clamour for Scottish Independence and the threat to Labour’s dominence in Scotland posed by the SNP. As Lordy Georgy Robertson said at the time showing his superiour skills in misjudgment “”Devoloution will kill Scottish Nationalism stone dead”
    English Parliament? Since the English could not even accept regional assemblies what chance would there have been accepting an English parliament.
    The English parliament is just a red herring . The UK parliament is the English parliament which has a massive advantage over the devolved Scots parliament and the Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies in that the Scots parliament and the Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies have capped budgets whereas the English parliament existing through the UK Parliament has uncapped finances.
    If you want an English only soveriegn English paliament as defined by some on the English right wing then fine, and you dont have to do anything except tell your MP’s to stop opposing Scots Independence as Scots Indy delivers your English paliament because as the only factual statement in the above article says that after Scots Indy is achieved the UK no longer exists.
    Northern Ireland goes back to it’s pre-1707 status as an English colony and since Wales was absorbed into England and therefore is not part of the UK Union in it’s own right as a country any more than Northumberland is or any other English county then that leaves only England.
    The West Lothian question. Scots Indy resolves this. There has always been a west Lothian type question since the Old Irish parliament was formed in Stormont and later the N.I assembly, But you never heard Tory MP’s complaining about this ” Bushmills question” in the 20th century, Why? because Ulster Unionists always voted with the Tories in the UK parliament.
    I have not once ever heard any English complain about the “Canterbury question” where English Lords Spiritual vote on Scots only matters.
    Fact 1. As a matter of policy SNP UK parliament MPs NEVER vote on English only matters.
    Fact 2. There has never been a Tory majority in England that has been overturned in Westminster by the presence of Scots MP’s thus denying a Tory Govt being formed.
    It is a total myth that Labour needs Scotland to form a govt at Westminster and that England would be forever Tory ruled.
    SAOR ALBA GU BRATH

    • Nicholas

      “Fact 2. There has never been a Tory majority in England that has been overturned in Westminster by the presence of Scots MP’s thus denying a Tory Govt being formed.”

      I believe that is true except for the 2010 GE which was the exception and I believe the figures were presented on a pro-SNP blog as part of the analysis of this.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

        The fact that its the largely English Lib-Dems MPs that prop up the Coailition thus denying Labour the chance to form a govt…..As usual it does not matter who Scotland votes, the Elections are decided in England. We vote Labour/SNP whatever and England rams Tories right up our Jacksies

        • Nicholas

          I don’t believe that the coalition prevented Labour forming a government although there seems to be a Labour-generated idea that any votes for other left-leaning parties somehow belong to Labour by default!

          In the 2010 GE the Conservatives won 306 seats, Labour 258 and the Lib Dems 57. Even without the Lib Dems the Conservatives would have more seats than Labour. The Conservatives won 97 whilst Labour lost 91 and the Lib Dems lost 5 so any special pleading that Labour were denied the chance to form a government from those results is, frankly, bollox.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

            The point is that whatever Scotland votes does not matter as England decides…. Fact. There is only one Tory MP is Scotland, Scotland cosistantly rejects the Tories but because England decides then Scotland gets the tories stuffed up us.

            • Nicholas

              Not really because you have a devolved parliament which is more than England has. However you see it the Westminster parliament is British not English and it contains Scots, Irish and Welsh MPs (and constituencies). If it was English then the English might not be paying university fees, prescription charges and hospital parking in this “equal” and “fair” country that Westminster governs.

              Devolution was a crock of shit that ran roughshod over historical reality (and law) and has created a time delayed constitutional crisis.

  • Alan Eastwood

    Well this just shows what weak people sat around the cabinet table when Straw made the proposal to veto publication of the minutes of that meeting. Just like successive Prime Ministers have agreed to no minutes of the heads of government meetings of the EU being published, so nobody can actually read what is being said on behalf of their country. We have to accept the version given to us by the PM of the day.
    As for Brown. He is a Scot and I have no doubt he knew what would happen long term. I reckon we could see him make a play for the Prime Minister of Scotland job should it come about.
    The reason they did not want an English Parliament is because the EU had already decided, with the complicity of successive governments, that England was no more and would be regionalised. You see the Europeans blame England for all the European Wars, especially the Napoleonic Wars, and it was England that declared war against Germany twice! Now you see why France and Germany are buddies.
    Cameron could bring in a bill for an English Parliament……..but the weak man wont.

    • Mark

      England declared war on Germany? That’s awful nice. And here’s me thinking you should be referring to Britain! 😉

      No, the Europeans (a stupid title given that Britain is also in Europe) detest (good French word) the fact that inspite of all the anti-European stuff, Westminster gets its fair share of handouts from Brussels. The Eurosceptics are quite fond of ignoring/misremembering/denying it. This is something that sticks in the craw (great Scottish word) of our English neighbours. It is true. And this is why Cameron will not give the British public a referendum. He knows, as did Brown, Blair, Major and Thatcher that it was better to keep your hand in than out. Maggie, as much as I despise her, was right.

    • Andy

      It is true that stupid Labour’s idea of ‘devolution’ in England was to break it up into meaningless ‘regions’. The reason they came up with this dimwitted idea was quite simple: England would not be reliable and vote Labour.

      So now we have the grotesque sight of Scottish MP’s voting on issues in England for which they have no responsibility and are unable to influence in their own constituencies. No one (on Labour’s front bench) seems to think this is outrageous and stupid. On every devolved competence in England the Tories have a stonking majority, and yet have been unable to govern in those areas. So we could make a start by barring all Scottish and Welsh and Northern Ireland MP’s from voting on any issue which is devolved.

      Surely that is fair, proper and how it should be so the Labour front bench will support that with enthusiasm, and so will the LibDems of course.

  • wrinkledweasel

    Is Gordon Brown a Member of Parliament?

  • Ron Todd

    I see Brown as a tribal politician, his tribe is not Scottish as such but a certain brand of socialism which happens to have more support on one side of the border than the other. An independent Scotland would be whatever the name of the party in charge, assuming it is not the Tories, be run by a socialist big state parternalistic party. Despite the evidence of the Blair/Brown era he might think that Scotland would become some sort of socialist example to the rest of the UK enough to overcome any disadvantage to Labour from losing Scottish MPs at Westminster. He also will know that unless the EU problem is dealt with we will be effictifly controlled by a big state cetrallising EU that will always put the power of the state above the right of the individual. As none of our main parties seem able or willing to either attemt to reform Europe or adjust our relationship with Europe he will not be expecting any slow down in our absorption into EU.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

      @ “I see Brown as a tribal politician, his tribe is not Scottish as such but a certain brand of socialism which happens to have more support on one side of the border than the other. ”
      Total crap….Brown followed the exact same right wing neo-liberal economic policies as Thatcher did, He even pandered to the racist right by stealing and using the old nazi national front’s slogan of “british jobs for britisih workers”….Some of you people seem to live in a total political fantasy world and would not know a Socialist if he split yer skull with an ice pick and said “hello I’m a Socialist”….Where do you people live so I can avoid it

      • Ron Todd

        ‘British jobs for British workers’ was a slogan not a
        policy. He never did anything to limit immigration and made his opinion of
        those who opposed uncontrolled immigration clear. He was not pandering to the
        far right who were never going to vote for him but what was left of the white
        working class Labour support and the union bosses who do not want their power
        base weekend. A true socialist is
        somebody who wants to increase the power of the state over the family and the
        individual. Not using the capital letter for ‘British’ is the type of childish
        thing I did when I was a child. Do you consider doing other people violence
        with an ice-pick to be something that marks people out as likely to be
        socialist? (Yes I do know about Trotsky). If you want to avoid ‘where you
        people live’ you better stay in your bedroom, we are everywhere.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

          @ Ron Todd…Like I said, some of you people are Idiots……Ron Todd was General Sec of the T&GWU in the 80s-90s..are you paying tribute?

          • Ron Todd

            My parents selected my name many years before the trade union baron was well known. Were your parents paying tribute to native Americans or are you using a made up name. Any particular point you think was idiotic?

            • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

              @ Ron Todd ..”Were your parents paying tribute to native Americans or are you using a made up name. ”
              Naw…Kevin Costner stole my script about an English redcoat who goes to the Highlands and lives with the native Clan McKenzie :-)

      • Fergus Pickering

        Oh, A Scottish socialist. All is clear! Don’t worry folks. The man’s harmless, though I’d give him a wide berth when he’s had a few. But mostly it’s violence of the tongue and he’s probably quite short. He also reckons he’s the only person who’s ever read a book.

        • Ron Todd

          I am half Scottish half English brought up in Scotland so I have the accent. When I moved to England in my twenties I very soon got fed up with people insinuating that I must be an alcoholic. Less common now but obviously not gone away completely. I am quite short though I don’t see how that is relevent not like I had a choice in the matter.

  • The Crunge

    The damage this arrogant, bullying, cowardly and incompetent man did and is still doing to this country is beyond rational analysis. We need to ask serious questions about our own values and motivations for allowing such a disgusting individual to achieve public office of any description let alone becoming Prime Minister.

    • http://twitter.com/danieljohnson85 Daniel Johnson
    • LRobertson

      Strangely enough I don’t recognise any of those qualities in my MP that you have stated…maybe because I don know his real qualities and not the ones written in the English propaganda media. You are just another brainwashed sheep who can’t think for themselves. He is a fantastic MP by the way!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Auchterlonie/100001568234374 Andy Auchterlonie

        So he justifies his £65000 per year for ‘representing’ Kirkcaldy and it’s interests in the House of Commons then? Are you aware that in the last 18 months, he has attended the House of Commons TWICE? Once was not even representing his constituency, but was representing himself in the lead up to the Leveson enquiry. Still think he is a good MP? Only if getting your face in the Fife Free Press every week for opening bags of crisps. Well worth the money he is paid. Oh aye, and before we forget, he denied knowing anything about the radiation issues at Dalgety Bay, where the majority of people in Fife have done so for 20 years. He had a chance while PM to sort it out, but he had more important stuff to carry out like selling the country out and he and his pal Blair getting blood on their hands in Iraq.

        • Lroberton

          How dumb do you think I am, the fact he works damned hard in our constituency where WE the taxpayers pay his money is none of your concern! Do you prefer he flies down at taxpayers expense so the English can bitch about him probably saying he should be in his constituency !Waste money when theres nothing we want him to fly down to speak on our behalf. .the truth of the matter it doesn’t matter what Gordon does you bitch about him. Now why dont you turn your business on Cameron the PM because my MP has nothing whatsoever to do with you! since you know nothing about whats going on in my town and I have not one bit interest in yours why don’t you trot off! Cameron is the perfect PM for you! You are pretty dumb though! You don’t even know that Gordon wasn’t in Blair’s inner circle when the decision of Iraq was made. You don’t even know the half of it..one of the many idiots who believe all the propaganda in the papers…..makes me laugh! Go educate yourself more!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Auchterlonie/100001568234374 Andy Auchterlonie

            Actually, I am from Kirkcaldy, work in Kirkcaldy and all my links are Kirkcaldy. Note you took things personally when challenged. Sums you up obviously. Add the racist comments about the English too. Oh, and yes you obviously ARE dumb to answer your question. Now, can you tell me ONE thing Brown has done for Kirkcaldy in the time since his re-election? I am not talking about opening shops or any other low profile work, but what has he actually ACHIEVED for Kirkcaldy?

            • David Ossitt

              Well said Andy.

            • David Ossitt

              Well said Andy.

            • David Ossitt

              Well said Andy.

      • john_zims


        He is a fantastic MP by the way!’

        Great attendance record at Westminster,turned up for one day in the past 12 months?
        What was that stuff he was preaching about when PM about MP’s not having two jobs,maybe he can explain why he’s so busy filling his pockets on the lecture circuit but still happy to take taxpayers money for not turning up at Westminster.

      • ArchiePonsonby

        Why is he a fantastic MP? He’s hardly ever in the House of Commons!

    • dercavalier

      Yes! First and only question. Find out why the pig thick English bankers were allowed to continue to pillage the whole UK while being subsidised by the taxpayers during the loathsome ‘Government’ of Dumb Dave, Dumber Ozzie and Dumberer the Clegg all ‘educated’ at supposedly good schools and universities. Particularly when the Dummies said they were going to put a stop to the thieving.

      • Wessex Man

        So who was in charge of RBS, nothing like shifting the blame is there dercavalier.

    • dercavalier

      Yes! First and only question. Find out why the pig thick English bankers were allowed to continue to pillage the whole UK while being subsidised by the taxpayers during the loathsome ‘Government’ of Dumb Dave, Dumber Ozzie and Dumberer the Clegg all ‘educated’ at supposedly good schools and universities. Particularly when the Dummies said they were going to put a stop to the thieving.

    • dercavalier

      Yes! First and only question. Find out why the pig thick English bankers were allowed to continue to pillage the whole UK while being subsidised by the taxpayers during the loathsome ‘Government’ of Dumb Dave, Dumber Ozzie and Dumberer the Clegg all ‘educated’ at supposedly good schools and universities. Particularly when the Dummies said they were going to put a stop to the thieving.

  • Radford_NG

    12 Aug c.11.10am. BST…..The Blair agenda was to divide Britain up into the requisite provinces of the European [or German or Franco-German] Union [ or Empire or Forth Reich ] ; take your pick.This as reflected in the electoral divisions for the European Assembly ; let’s not call it a parliament.

  • TomTom

    This is extreme. Blair did not believe in Devolution but inherited the policy from John Smith and it had headwind since the Callaghan Administration had been held hostage in 1978. Blair had no idea he would win a landslide and covered all the bases.

    Hell, Cameron is on a Gay Marriage Hobbyhorse which has never been in any party manifesto simply to keep Nick Clegg cuddled up close. Politics is Opportunism.

  • james102

    So much of Scottish nationalism seems to be merely Anglophobia
    so I can’t see how the Union can continue.

    The form of devolution brought in, which ignored the English,
    was in line with the “Protected Groups” rights we saw brought in by Labour
    during their period in office and seems to dominate the thinking of our
    political class.

    Despite being a majority the English don’t proportionately
    get involved in politics and our political class seems disproportionately to
    consist of second generation immigrants
    and Celts, even if this term is misused in a historical sense.

    My preferred option would be for the Westminster Parliament
    to declare itself an English parliament when discussing purely English matters
    excluding Scottish, Welch and Irish MPs from the debate and vote. Failing that
    we might as well bite the bullet and have referenda in all the countries ,any
    voting to leave, including England, could then start the process.

    • http://garve.scott-lodge.com Garve Scott-Lodge

      Please take this as a genuine question from a member of the SNP who fears we must be doing something wrong. What is it about us that you believe is Anglophobic?

      • Nicholas

        q.v. “Danceswith Haggis”. He might not represent you but his Anglophobia and support for the SNP is fairly obvious. You could disown him but unfortunately his type won’t disown you!

        • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

          Not meaning to be insulting [really i’m not]..but are you on some sort of medication?…or just spend too much time in the Specbigot and daily mail forums……no insults intended..

          • Nicholas

            Thanks for demonstrating my point to Garve Scott-Lodge. Maybe you should try reading some of your own comments with some detached objectivity but even if you don’t “Specbigot” kind of tells us all we need to know.

            • Mark Smith

              And what about this state-sponsored Brit-Fest that we’ve had over the last two weeks? We’ve even had utter garbage written in newspapers and spouted on the telly about how this must be the death-knell for the Devious Alex Salmond and his Crusade for Independence. Cf Alan Cochrane, Daily Torygraph et al

              Tripe!

              • Nicholas

                Am I somehow responsible for the “state-sponsored Brit-Fest”? And that has little or nothing to do with the question under discussion here – which was “What is it about us that you believe is Anglophobic?”

                Even so, one of the main issues for the SNP is the British identity of Scots. Whether you and other nationalists like it or not the current nationality is British. It simply won’t wash to attribute “Englishness” to this to use as a stick to beat Unionists. Salmond himself has some ambiguities – currency, the Monarchy, etc. And for some long time the Scots have expressed valid disdain for people who say “English” when they mean “British”. Why should Scots think that attacks against the English will not be reciprocated or that attacks against the British identity will undermine the credibility of the SNP? There are many contradictions in the Nationalist stance and neither you nor Salmond can answer them.

            • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

              @Nicholas Actually my reply was for you and not gavin

        • http://garve.scott-lodge.com Garve Scott-Lodge

          Newspaper comment boards are going to be full of all sorts, including those who like to be abusive and those who will take offence where none was intended. I know of lots of instances of commenters being openly anti-English, as well as anti-Scottish. However, the campaign for independence is very much based on being pro-English. We would prefer to govern ourselves from Edinburgh, but we know we’ll need to have very good relations with our neighbour afterwards. There are a great many English people living in Scotland who vote for the SNP, and quite a few who are SNP elected representatives. That wouldn’t be the case if the party was based on Anglophobia.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

      @ ” So much of Scottish nationalism seems to be merely Anglophobia”
      Again the level of ignorance of Scots politics that comes from English people is astounding.. The SNP have many English members and many English people living in Scotland [Scots govt officially defines them as “new Scots”] The SNP also has English MSPs and MPs at Holyrood [thats where the Scots parly is] and Westminster
      .Listening to non scots discuss the constitutional question is like listening to ten year olds talking about sex you are all very interested but feign hostility and dont have a clue what you are talking about. Scotland has been discussing this for decades and is way ahead on the issues, and f**k does it show

    • PeterABell

      I’ll tell you how this goes. You bang on about Scottish nationalist “Anglophobia”. I ask you for examples. You fall silent.

      • james102

        The:”I support two teams: Scotland and anyone playing
        England”teeshirts express it perfectly.

        The English support an English team or contestant and then
        anyone from the Home Countries, surprisingly even Ireland, on the other hand…

        • Radford_NG

          11 Aug.c.5.10pm BST………..At the time of the 2002(?) World Cup the back streets of England were full of English and Irish flags,and fans supported each others team.

        • PeterABell

          Grow up! Scottish attitudes to English competitors are mostly explained by the kind of media commentators who blithely referred to Team GB as “the England team”. The kind of talking heads who always talk about England even if they are not actually involved in the competition. Then there’s the endless references to some football match in 1966. It all gets a bit tedious for those of us who pay just as much for our TV coverage as Englanders.

          • LRobertson

            Remember its rule for English and different rules for Scots. They have the attitude of we have the right to make you feel like nothing but how dare we Scots even remotely say anything against the English…arrogance comes to mind. Independence here we come!

    • dercavalier

      What about the Scotophobia of your fellow English commentators above? I suppose being English you think that is ‘just banter’?

    • dercavalier

      What about the Scotophobia of your fellow English commentators above? I suppose being English you think that is ‘just banter’?

    • dercavalier

      What about the Scotophobia of your fellow English commentators above? I suppose being English you think that is ‘just banter’?

  • http://owsblog.blogspot.com Span Ows

    Andy, the regional assemblies was a 100% EU plan, its rejection was because of this. If Scotland gets anywhere near to independence you will see the support soar for an English parliament. You are right about the 700 signature point, but this is because there are dozens of groups, clubs, parties etc spread all over with no connection or central focus; this too will change if a dissolution of the Union ever looks like becoming reality.

  • UlyssesReturns

    What’s the opposite of a British patriot? That’s what Brown is.

    • tele_machus

      You are probably right.
      But that does not answer the question of what to do about it.
      We are where we are.
      Should we muddle on with the West Lothian question unanswered or should we let Scotland go constitutionally?
      And if we did would this change the de facto situation we have today
      *
      If we let the situation drift then it will be the English (and particularly the Conservatives who will want to be rid of the Scottish Labour MP’s) who will demand separation.
      *
      I do not for this reason believe that this is what Gordon wants

      • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

        “should we let Scotland go constitutionally?”…LET GO? LET GO?
        Sorry pal but it is not up to England or anyone else.
        If the Scots people decide they are leaving then they are leaving and their is nothing england can do about it
        This is part of the problem, the little englander mentality that england owns Scotland…wake up the days of empire ended decades ago and this is just the final stage in that process.
        Actually with Scotland leaving Scotland is giving England its independence not the other way round
        Time for England to stand on its own two feet for the first time in 700 years without the resourses of other countries to support it.
        I feel England should be able to at least make a go of it alone, it will be hard but after a few decades she will be able to stand up proud as an Independent country

        • tele_machus

          Actually it has a lot to do with England
          We have the yoke of subsisy round our necks and your meddlesome interference in our parliament
          *
          If you read my post carefully you will see that like the pundits I feel you are going cold on independence asnd it is England that will abrogate the act of union.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

            Two years to go and the UK economy is fast going down the sh****r…The futures bright..the future is independent…Scotland will hand england its Independence

            • tele_machus

              You still misunderstand.
              Scotland will never vote for independence.
              But England will establish an English parliament and freeze them out
              *
              My old grandad taught me that the Scots were as thick as pigsh*t and twice as mean.

              • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

                Ach well! if it make yae feel better…TUDAN

              • Alasdair

                wow, your grandad was a bigot and you seem proud to follow in his footsteps!

                • LRobertson

                  We’ll soon be shot of the bigoted bunch and we’ll enjoy as they choke on their bigoted words when they realise Scots were never subsidised but the English.

                • Wessex Man

                  Quite happy and willing to “struggle on” without you and you moaning bile thrown at us thank you L Roberston, within ten years you’ll be begging for a new union!

              • dercavalier

                English Culture:
                Pretentious, pompous pap, produced, promoted and played by, puffed up,
                precious, pimps, poufs, princes, professors, paedophiles, perverts, pressmen, and ponces in
                London and Oxbridge.

              • dercavalier

                English Culture:
                Pretentious, pompous pap, produced, promoted and played by, puffed up,
                precious, pimps, poufs, princes, professors, paedophiles, perverts, pressmen, and ponces in
                London and Oxbridge.

              • dercavalier

                English Culture:
                Pretentious, pompous pap, produced, promoted and played by, puffed up,
                precious, pimps, poufs, princes, professors, paedophiles, perverts, pressmen, and ponces in
                London and Oxbridge.

              • dercavalier

                English joke:

                Yorkshire
                man takes his cat to the vet. Yorkshireman: “Ayup, lad, I need to talk to
                thee about me cat.” Vet: “Is it a tom?” Yorkshireman: “Nay,
                I’ve browt it with us.

                Another: If you want toclear a bar quickly of Englishmen, just send in the Salvation Army woman with a collection box. There’ll be a stampede for the door.

                • Doc Snoddy

                  I tried to join the SNP but was refused because when I filled in the application form question 13 (b) asks “have you been circumcised ” my answer was yes. So I was refused membership. Apparently you have to be a complete pr*ck to be a member.

              • dercavalier

                English joke:

                Yorkshire
                man takes his cat to the vet. Yorkshireman: “Ayup, lad, I need to talk to
                thee about me cat.” Vet: “Is it a tom?” Yorkshireman: “Nay,
                I’ve browt it with us.

                Another: If you want toclear a bar quickly of Englishmen, just send in the Salvation Army woman with a collection box. There’ll be a stampede for the door.

              • dercavalier

                English joke:

                Yorkshire
                man takes his cat to the vet. Yorkshireman: “Ayup, lad, I need to talk to
                thee about me cat.” Vet: “Is it a tom?” Yorkshireman: “Nay,
                I’ve browt it with us.

                Another: If you want toclear a bar quickly of Englishmen, just send in the Salvation Army woman with a collection box. There’ll be a stampede for the door.

          • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

            @” We have the yoke of subsisy round our necks”….
            And what subsidy would that be?..The one that even senior tories say is a myth, The one that all GERS figures say is a myth? The one that anyone that can do the basic sums of a 3 years says is a myth?…Or are you talking about the southbound subsidies that flow from Scotland to London.
            @”it is England that will abrogate the act of union.”..Er sorry pal but the Act of Union is a partnership between two countries Scotland and England and if the soveriegn people of Scotland choose to leave that partnership then there is F’all England can do about it

            • Mark Smith

              The question of fiscal stability is not a valid point. Why? For years, we had Westminster politicians telling us that we were too poor, too wee and too stupid. They don’t tell us that anymore and everyone with at least half a brain cell knows why.

              Anyone who wishes to doubt this, I refer them to the GERS report 2010-2011 which shows that Scotland is in surplus.

              • tele_machus

                “we were too poor, too wee and too stupid”
                *
                We concur.

          • LRobertson

            how pathetic! Another English sheep that believes the propaganda…..it suited both Tory and Labour Govs to make people believe we were subsidised so we woould be too scare to go it alone, they hid the McCrone report..yes! go educate yourself to the report that Prof McCrone wrote which told of the wealth Scotland had and how well they could do as an Independent country,the selfish sh*ts down south in power didn’t want the Scottish oil bank to be lost so they hid the report until Salmond demanded the report was released…the truth came out then and the truth we had never been subsidised, we actually contributed more than we ever got back and we’ve had to suffer ignorant insults by the English as to being parasites,scroungers etc. Hateful hateful people. Now educate yourself to the truth and learn the hard way when we become our own country again and leave you skint!
            http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public

            • Nicholas

              Sounds like you are the one that is “hateful, hateful” mate.

              • Wessex Man

                By golly L Roberston, you have the brassneck to tell such lies, give us the chance to vote and we will ensure that you have your Independence, what don’t you undertand about plain English?

            • telemachus

              Forget subsidies then.
              It is still true that you will not now get a positive independence referendum vote.
              But we English have been further fired to consider the West Lothian question
              And to set up an English parliament
              Then to let you go and let the Union further wither
              This was my point
              Your post shows my grandfather to be right

        • David Ossitt

          Deluded.

        • LRobertson

          Their arrogance knows no bounds eh! I count the hours down till we walk away from this disgusting union! One of which Scots never wanted! I cannot wait for many to choke on their “subsidised by us English” words when they realise the moneypot (oil tax revenue to name a few) belonged to Scotland and it was indeed England that was subsidised!

          • Wessex Man

            Of course the Scots wanted the Union L Robertson, their first venture without England holding their hand they went bust see above, we count the hours as well, if only you delided souls were to read an English paper the last poll taken shows 70% of the English want SCOTISH INDEPENDENCE. I expect the reason you don’t want us to vote is that secretly you want us to go on funding you.

        • Frank Hampson

          Scots bollocks!

        • jazz6o6

          The quickest route to Scots independence would be to hold a ballot in England.

        • ButcombeMan

          You are plainly not a student of history. I suggest you read up about the Darien scheme which near bankrupted Scotland and led to the Act of Union.

          England bailed out Scotland. It continues to do so as Scotland’s peculiar breed of part socialism, part misplaced nationalism, sucks at the English teat.

          “King ” Salmond is a lunatic, interested only in himself, sitting on a throne, on the edge of a cliff, inviting the Scots to throw themselves off, like lemmings to the slaughter. Salmond had illusions of an Icelandic financial heaven in Scotland. Oh, how we laughed.

          Parts of Scotland, have the worst diet, the lowest life expectancy, the heaviest smoking, illegal drug and alcohol use in the UK, all that combined with the highest dependency on the State.

          The Scots are filled with immense self pity, the world owes them a living.

          Brown was the very worst Chancellor and Prime Minister of modern times. He was economically illiterate.

          The difference between Robert Mugabe and Brown, is that Mugabe got elected.

          It will be tragic if Scotland leaves the Union but many people will not shed a tear. Maybe only those of us who hail from both sides of Hadrians Wall.

          I feel sorry for those Scots who have fallen for Salmond’s illusion.

          • AJ

            I suggest you look at a map depicting the location of Hadrian’s Wall – your knowledge of geography is apparently about as good as that of the issues surrounding the independence debate. 😉

          • William Beedie

            Only a select few were bankrupted by Darien ,not the country and those were bought by English gold , Darien Scheme failure has a lot of story to it and is in no uncertain terms as simple as you have made out ,I suggest you read this article which is probably the most balanced I have read/ url=http://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-skintland-britnat-mythology-and-the-darien-scheme/Dariuen Scheme[/url]

    • http://www.coffeehousewall.co.uk/ Coffeehousewall

      The opposite of a patriot is a traitor.

      • tele_machus

        You, who denigrate all that is British, would know

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Edward-Margerum/100001557014982 Edward Margerum

        “This is my own, my native land” requires Britons to make a choice.

        • http://www.coffeehousewall.co.uk/ Coffeehousewall

          I already have. I am English before I am British. I am happy to be British in a secondary sense, but I am English.The native land of my ancestors is England. I only have one ‘exotic’ anywhere on my family tree as far as I have discovered going back to the 1650s. I am sure that my family were labouring stock from Soham going back to the earliest times. I think that anyone whose ancestors have been in a place for 200 years belongs in that place.

          • LRobertson

            I am most definitely Scottish first and only British as in the fact I live on the island of Britain

    • AdemAljo

      The idea of separation and its dis/advantages should be more readily discussed and questions should be put forward in Parliament. I think this is going to happen closer to referendum time anyway, so I’m not concerned about that and I hope that both points of view about Scotland’s separation are heard clearly.

      What I am concerned about is the quiet revelation that Gordon Brown was scheming to destabilize our country from the get go. Though not surprising at all, it just shows the malice with which he entered Government and the dangerous political game he plays.

      He is a deluded individual. He has nobody’s interest at heart but his own. He will quite happily destroy a 300-year-old institution for whatever gains he thinks he will achieve, as I don’t believe for a second that he has a clear plan or knows without doubt what he is in fact to gain.

      He should be held accountable for his actions and imprisoned. He is a traitor and should be treated as such.

      • Mark Smith

        Better using the word ‘independence’ as opposed to ‘separation’.

        • AdemAljo

          Yeah, you’re right.

      • LRobertson

        If we believed all we read in the papers we’d go nuts. Gordon is no more a Scots Nat than Cameron is! I doubt if one single Englishman would understand that since they haven’t a clue about Scots and Scotland! As for deluded,what a load of crap, have you met him? I could say you are a jumped up arrogant tory but then I don’t know you so won’t decide what you are….me on the other hand knows Gordon very well, he is very sane and such a lovely man and nothing what the b*stard English media have portrayed him to be. I loathe people that judge a person with what they read in papers.especially the sodden English ones!Never mind, I for one am so thankful he is away from the English, now away and take your potty mouth to those that care because we Scots don’t and certainly not us constituents of Gordon’s!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Auchterlonie/100001568234374 Andy Auchterlonie

          He steals £65000 a year to represent Kirkcaldy constituency. He has attended Parliament twice in 18 months. Bloody good MP, eh?

          • LRobertson

            Parliament is not the main job by the way…working in the constituency is! How pedantic folk are. Yes he is a bloody good MP! Do I really care what you think,nope! What I care about is Gordon getting his teeth into bringing life to my town, he is doing wonders resurrecting our other famous son Adam Smith, it will bring loads of tourism into town and annual dinners with many top names. Then there’s the Adam Smith Lectures that Gordon organises that brings renowned people to speak in town, Kofi Annan was last year and Sir James Wolfensohn was this year which I attended……so don’t come with your crap that Gordon isn’t doing anything. He is involved in a good few local charities as well helping bring other businesses to town. Now trot off!

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Auchterlonie/100001568234374 Andy Auchterlonie

              SO, you reckon Kirkcaldy will become the Blackpool of Fife, because the worst PM ever will attract some so called big names? What a crock of crap. What ACHIEVEMENTS has he made for Kirkcaldy? What JOBS has he helped to bring? Answers on a postcard to LRobertson, Deluded Blinkered Labour Supporter, c/o The Spectator.

        • Wessex Man

          Oh dear L Robertson, you dribble on and on about what a wonderful man Gordy is, tell us we haven’t a clue about Scots and Scotland, refer to our press as b*tard English Media. Then go n to say loathe people that judge a person with what they read in a paper. I would hazard a guess that you are the worst kind of racist and you don’t even know it.

      • LRobertson

        If we believed all we read in the papers we’d go nuts. Gordon is no more a Scots Nat than Cameron is! I doubt if one single Englishman would understand that since they haven’t a clue about Scots and Scotland! As for deluded,what a load of crap, have you met him? I could say you are a jumped up arrogant tory but then I don’t know you so won’t decide what you are….me on the other hand knows Gordon very well, he is very sane and such a lovely man and nothing what the b*stard English media have portrayed him to be. I loathe people that judge a person with what they read in papers.especially the sodden English ones!Never mind, I for one am so thankful he is away from the English, now away and take your potty mouth to those that care because we Scots don’t and certainly not us constituents of Gordon’s!

    • LRobertson

      A Scottish patriot!

  • Gina Dean

    If this truely is what he wants they are welcome to him. He does not show his face much down here now. Let him be a thorn in the side of the SNP.

    • Lrobertson

      Now why would he want to come down to the bunch of friendly English people who still insult him yet Cameron and co are doing far, far more damage to the country..they can’t blame Gordon anymore for their feck up. I presume its the usual Scot bashing that has truly helped many of us make up our minds about Independence. I thank you for that!:)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Dowland/100001205485571 Andy Dowland

    Nice conspiracy theory, but that rather ignores that Labour did have a solution to the West Lothian question. That was for regional assemblies, once they were all up and running, then Westminster would only deal with pan-British and foreign affairs and the regions would be running health and education themselves. The model was to follow the way Spain devolved their central state. But the North East rejected the model and as it looked like no other region wanted to even be asked the devolution was put on the back burner.

    Right now, the reason the English Parliament hasn’t happened is that the English people don’t seem to want it. The most popular e-petition on an English Parliament has less than 700 signatures. Why would Blair, Brown or Cameron institute something that hasn’t got anywhere near popular support. And I’m speaking as someone who would like an English Parliament and a truly federal UK.

    • Ostrich (occasionally)

      As I recall it, the North East rejected a regional assembly only because the form in which it was being offered was completely unacceptable, i.e. it was asking the “wrong question”. There was no discussion I am aware of that considered the possibility of such a regional assembly later morphing into something the people actually wanted. That does seem to be progressively happening in Scotland.

      • TomTom

        Too true. The Regional “Assembly” in the North East already existed in UNELECTED form. These agencies were set up by Prescott and controlled local authority budgets and education through the LSC and much else through RDAs, The sham referendum was simply to legitimise Quangoes staffed by Civil Servants and local Nabobs. When our local NHS Trust went membership it was funny how the board remained the same one Alan Milburn had appointed until Monitor (Quango) removed it and appointed new board members without consulting “members”

    • james102

      So a more Continental European regional model? But as Britain,
      or possibly England and Wales, will no longer be members of the EU in a decade
      why bother?

      English nationalism is the fear that our political class
      dare not mention, an English parliament is much too dangerous as far as their
      world view is concerned.

    • Andy

      We, the English, DO want a Parliament with exactly the same powers as that in Scotland. No one bothers to ask us – because we are English. But let us make a start on matters and exclude all none English MPs from having a say in English affairs – any bill laid before Parliament designated ‘English Only’.

      • Alexsandr

        Barring devolved MP’s from voting on English matters is all that is needed. we dont need the complication of a separate English assembly.
        Minsters for English departments would be appointed by the English MP’s not he PM.
        Setting the budgets could be fun though!

        • Andy

          Exactly. But we have a complication. At the last election the Tories have a clear and decisive majority in England, and yet no majority in the House of Commons. So who would be first minister for England ? Perhaps we need to look at the entire devolution settlement. Maybe MPs for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should sit in devolved Parliaments and in the UK Parliament. Or we should convert the House of Lords to the UK Parliament.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Danceswithhaggis Danceswith Haggis

        Scots Independence delivers your English parliament…So just bide yer time and tell yer MP not to oppose Scots Indy….simple

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